"Hmmm well we've gotten absolutely nowhere listening to Todd, let's punch in Omnigamer's numbers. Oh, it worked first try. Well thanks for coming, Todd!"
It speaks to his confidence in the corrupt system of twin galaxies maintaining the status quo in spite of overwhelming evidence whilst defying all common sense.
VideoGame Polak I would agree, back then we had crappy technology and it wasn’t way to do these things to disprove what someone said. Now it’s all coming back, karma is a bitch.
+zacharymop yeah well that confidence wasnt well placed, all his records have just been pulled from tg and he is banned, maybe todd can still get a guinness world record for longest scam but anything else is getting stricken from them as well
Todd Rogers used to claim that he started the game in 2nd to get his 5.51. So why didn't he explain how that worked so that he could achieve it now? My guess would be because he forgot about that lie.
Ozrith Clay According to the TASer that started this whole situation, if you were able to start in 2nd the way Todd describes, something like a 2.×× is possible.
Not on the video I saw. He said you needed both in 2nd and already be moving. But that's beside the point. Why didn't Todd even bring that up here? My guess is he would have to prove it and he can't. PS a few months back I saw Todd Rodgers on video saying he feels cursed that he can't get better than a 5.7 when on camera. Interesting that that's what his instructions got here. Almost like he doesn't even know how to get a better speed.
Twin Galaxies shouldn't be allowed to be the official high score entity, because they took waY WAY too long to make this verdict! The Guiness of World Records should choose another entity to decide who it prints.
So... that's a no. 5.57 is the best you can get? Also why was his claim of starting in 2nd gear not looked into? I know you probably didn't want to embarrass the poor guy but it is time to put this to bed.
I don't think they said this was the last episode, just that this is the progress so far. They had to validate the approach and test against the spreadsheet.
Sure, and I would love to see someone either prove or disprove if starting in second gear is possible. This episode was about testing Ben's hardware and testing methodology. This is the middle of the story, not the end
Yea it's easy to start in 2nd gear or 3rd or 4th, but starting in second gear doesn't really seem to help you, for the same reason starting in 4th gear won't help... Change address 0xCC (player 0's gear) to 02... Stella cheat code: CC02... A side effect of starting in a gear allows you to start the race before the countdown timer elapses but you also have to make sure not to shift until it does or it still catches you 'starting early' you just can't shift early but you can cheat by already being in gear :D (apply the cheat, unpause the game, pause it and unapply it [so you aren't stuck in 2nd gear the whole race]) Is that possible to do without cheating? I haven't seen a way that it is... Upon reset of the game the gear is reset to 0 (neutral) along with initializing all the other variables it initializes, and you can't skip past gear 1 to get to 2... You can just immediately shift into 2nd gear at the start of the race, but similarly to the cheat method it doesn't yield a positive result (you've slowed yourself down by not being in the optimal gear)
That is genuinely interesting, and I hope Ben Heck cover that and test it through the different variations. I do not have a dog in the race. I am not especially disposed to Rogers, I care about the process; which is what I have been saying
This is ridiculous. Even IF 5.51 turned out to be possible, it doesn't prove that he ever did it. What happened to starting in second gear which he has been babbling about for decades now? No mention of it at all in this video, kinda strange if you ask me. He's already had several records removed. The only sensible thing is to pull this one until he performs it "again" on camera.
You did it first man! All this does is confirm your spread sheet analysis. I knew your weren't lying. I still watch your world record video when I need a pick me up. Your "F%$#@ YEAH!" never ceases to put a smile on my face. And you did it before Darbian, who is no slouch by any standard! When it comes to speedrunning you're a legend man, embrace it.
@@ThanatosIRL He invented the story about a Customer Rep calling him to ask about in-depth shifting techniques for that reason. The story claims that the other two were disqualified because they couldn't provide an explanation that would include a different method of playing than a "perfect computer" did. But the dev of the game admitted to at most mathing out a theoretical best, and that he wouldn't ever split hairs over milliseconds -- he would simply assume his theoretical was wrong.
This Guy faked a WR, even original developers said his time is not possible, the code has even been looked over digit by digit and the evidence of all possible times published, why does he still insist his WR is legit and go around conning people when its been proven humpteen times by different people using different lines of evidence, that its fake.
Except that David Crane the developer of Dragster has said that he witnessed the 5:51. “Activision validated Todd’s Dragster score using the accepted methods of the day,” Crane said. (kotaku.com/doubt-and-drama-still-haunt-an-old-seemingly-impossibl-1796714894)
Well it is entirely possible that the Atari console that was originally used, glitched or dropped a few cycles ive seen RTC's drop tenths of seconds before due to inconsistent power.
I admire how Ben treated Todd all through this. He gave him the benefit of the doubt and when the results proved inconclusive, Ben simply thanked Todd for coming and granted him the opportunity to maintain face if any. Emily Post couldn't have exhibited more class.
Notice he doesn’t bring up that “shifting into second gear before the race starts” bullshit? He’s not going to mention that to a guy who can prove that it’s impossible.
I found out how he did it. He tried to take a picture of the screen as soon as the rev bars disappear, which is about 5.07, and ended up getting 5.51. He then sent the polaroid in and claimed it was his finish time, when in actuality it was a picture of a race in progress. All those stories of live events and going over computer models of the game are lies too.
Ben: "...I have to cheat with a computer." Todd: [mumbles] "I have to cheat using a pedophile." Ben: "What was that?" Todd: "Uh...Time for me to be hittin' the ol' dusty trail..."
@John Perez It's in reference to a former Twin Galaxies employee named Ron Corcoran who vouched for Todd's records but Ron was arrested for molesting a child and is now serving 30 years in prison.
In the first 30 seconds you can already tell you’re dealing with a conman. No one in real life introduces themselves by what they’re “known as” unless it’s for entertainment - maybe someone like a WWE wrestler hyping up their persona or a rapper bragging in a song. Just imagine hearing “Hi I’m Tom Brady, known as the king of football”, or “Hi I’m Magnus Carlsen, known as the king of chess”
Yeah, the closest you'll get is "I'm Tom Brady of the Superbowl winning Patriots and Buccaneers" and even then that's something you generally hear from a second or third string player and probably in some sort of endorsement. Name-brand people tend not to come out with qualifiers. The Simpsons had an entire character based around this concept back in the day: D-list actor Troy McClure. He would constantly remind the audience of productions he starred in, and they'd always be Dragster-tier productions no one in-universe was familiar with. It's too bad Phil Hartman died before his time because it'd be funny to see an episode where it turns out Troy McClure has lied about most of his resume.
17:15 that awkward moment when Todd realizes he’s caught and starts scratching his head, and Ben is feeling super uncomfortable. Look at their faces after omnigamers data. Haha
Imagine the psychopathy it takes to walk into a situation like this voluntarily when you know you were cheating all the long. Todd’s knowledge of electronics and technology must be so poor that he actually thought he could BS his way through what is physically and mathematically impossible.
surely they could just use a brute force technique to prove it once and for all - leave the system running for a few hours, have it run every possible combination and find the lowest possible time.
has been done - same result. 5.57 is the best possible. Now we have bruteforce, direct hardware control, and cod analysis. Todd is basically claiming to have rolled 13 with 2 die that only go up to 6 each.
@@trickysoft You know, I'm sitting here thinking... "A '1' can look very similar to a '7' if it's handwritten". I wonder if that's what happened and he just rolled with the error?
Hey I've watched it again, all the analysis from Omnigamer seemed to stack up, I'm wondering if there were different versions of the code which may have allowed Todd to get a time that doesn't now appear possible.
Pointless. This game is so simple that it is actually far easier to just run every possible combination of inputs than using any form of self improving system. better yet - somebody did the work, looked through the actual gamecode and crunched the numbers to get the best possible outcome - and it is 5.57 . That is according the the actual game code. Without manipulating the RAM or software somehow you can not get any better time than that. it is kinda like Todd claiming he got 13 by rolling 2 die that go form 1 to 6 only.
This had to be so awkward. Ben and pretty much everybody else there knows Todd is full of shit but they have to pretend like he isn't. Ben knows the computer is doing the fastest time possible in the game but has to say "there were some limitations that kinda held us back" when he know full well it is totally impossible to get the time Todd claims. Why didn't Todd try and play the game? He probably can't even get a 5.57!
You can't tell me there's not one other person who can duplicate this record considering it's a static strategy. No variance to it, it's just a trick. And with all these young guys now smashing old arcade scores at will, with this game's popularity now somebody surely would have replicated the time by now.
These computers performing inputs just don't the same capabilities Todd Rogers has. I mean, these simulations don't even take into account the h u m a n e l e m e n t.
No referee ever saw Todd perform this. Activision said they "trusted him," and so the official certification of this record comes from Rogers himself. Aaaaaand given his history of lying about his records, I'm pretty sure everybody in the know (so to speak,) saw this coming from about a mile away.
+capthowitzer He originally submitted the time via Polaroid to Activision. However, he and Acitivsion claim that they observed him get a 5.51 in person. He also claims he later got another 5.51 in a live performance. Obviously that can't be true, because a 5.51 is impossible. But neither TG nor Acitivision claims to have just trusted him.
If any other person or computer could do better than 5.57 his claim would be more believable. If there were people getting 5.55, 5.53 etc. then maybe. He either cheated, lied or somehow mixed up a 7 for a 1 but no way he got 5.51
@@BackForwardPunch I'm wondering if they weren't writing his times down on paper or something. Maybe over the course of hours of playing, they went back to look at what the best was, and the 7 looked like a 1. All it would take is for someone to say "is that a 7 or a 1" and Todd insist it was a 1.
There is evidence. There's the polaroid of his 5.51 score that he sent to Activisions. ...it's just a coincidence that they never sent the polaroid back and nobody knows where it is and they can't find anyone who says they ever saw it xD
DarkLightBoco The "human element" in this situation is irrelevant. We know exactly how fast the 6507 CPU is running (1.19 MHz, or 1190000 cycles per second). We know exactly how many cycles each instruction takes. So, for example, we know that a 2-cycle instruction like CLC (CLear Carry flag) takes 0.0000016807 seconds, and the slowest instruction (7 cycles) is 0.0000058823 seconds. We can analyze the program one instruction at a time and figure out *exactly* what the fastest run would be, assuming that everything is working as it should do. (In other words, that the 6507 is running at exactly 1.19 MHz and there are no weird electrical glitches that mess with the program.) It's only a 2 kB cartridge, and not all of that is program data. Plus, we only have to analyze the part of the code between the time the race starts and the time one player wins. It would still be time consuming, but not implausible. And the fastest run, based on every analysis done so far, is *not* 5.51, which is why Todd's record is in dispute. The burden of the proof, in this case, is on Todd.
The human element has never been able to provide evidence of a 5.51. Thus we remove him and see if it is possible with perfect machine inputs. It is not. And so I name this "human element" Untruthium.
Of course the human element is irrelevant, it is a complete joke. I am just really annoyed with this whole dispute and I think many other people also are too. There is so much evidence against it yet it is still not removed. There is no way 5.51 is possible without some kind faulty hardware or bad rom being used or Todd's mystery trick he keeps lying about.
lmfao twin galaxies is so bad. Todd is dreading the day he's going to have to wake up without his hundreds of bogus self-given records in 25+ year old arcade games. His psyche really might collapse without his lie.
Nope Chris, see we can actually effect change when we expose fraud for what it is and press the issue and never let up, we were as relentless at exposing the fraud as he was at trying to defend it, actually even moreso! Expose lies and fraud wherever it exists and none of their 'authority' liar figures that say otherwise nor any of their propaganda media can stop us from realizing the change we want to see!
17:13 - "It was at this moment..." You had a good run Tad! Or was it "Tim?" "Tom?" No, it was definitely "Tad." I remember because it rhymes with "SAD." Wait, where are you going with that rope, step-ladder, and s**t**n, Tad?! Tad, this is no time for arts and crafts!
Someone recently dug up a comment he made on the AtariAge forums in 2003 where he included a photo of his TV showing a 5.54 time. The checkerboard pattern that the JPEG compression created seemed to disappear on the part of the photo showing the time, suggesting it was probably shopped.
Don't know, but he did apparently send a Polaroid to Activision with the original 5.51. How he faked that is anyone's guess. I wonder if Activision still has it?
Activision doesn't have it. I don't remember where I got this, but I read something from an Activision employee who said they would keep stuff like those Polaroids for no more than a couple weeks maybe.
At this point it doesn't even matter. In the unlikely event that we were able to prove Todd's 5.51 as legitimate beyond a shadow of a doubt, it wouldn't really matter, because it doesn't affect the countless other records that have also been shown to be BS. How can he defend getting a 1698 in Wabbit, a game that has a kill screen at 1300? How can he defend getting a 65,000,000 in Centipede, where the next best score is 58,078? How can he defend any of his countless records that were just posted to the boards with no evidence? Proving one score as legitimate wouldn't fix the damage that's been done.
This guy is a Liar every time he has been asked to prove it he gives some BS excuse and he has never been able to do it on camera. Really you are just taking his word on it. HE IS A LIAR!
Speed Runner Darbian tired the world Record live on Twitch stream last year. He had a camera on his face and on his hands/controller as well as his TV. After he tied the record, he turned his face camera to his TV so you could see that the Twitch Stream was showing the same thing and that everything was lined up perfectly. He basically pulled off a TAS run on dragster with human input and if you watched any of his other world record runs on the multitude of games that Darbian runs, you'll notice that his reactions to front the world records are all the same. It's genuine.
I don't think they explained why they ran the omni data in 8 loops. but when you get anything from 5,57 to fail, there is for certain something there to take advantage of. why 8 ? is it possible to find another frame to start on?
Anyone else just feel really bad for this guy even though he cheated? His entire life has revolved around this and it seems like he never had anything before or after. Does he have family? It's just so pathetic that a 50 year old would still be holding on and willing to sue people over records for game's that people don't even know exist anymore. Ask 97% of gamers and I bet they've never heard of this game.
I grew up just a little bit after this era and only kinda sorta remembered the game when the controversy started, and it may have been because I once started it up in an emulator when those became practical in the 90s. Same with Barnstorming. Besides the Todd Togers thing, these games are relevant only if you're interested in the early history of Activision.
I really do, when looking past his cheating and tendency to lie. If you see interviews with Todd as a teenager, he just seems like a bright, sweet, humble dude with a lot of potential. But I guess once he grew up and competitive arcade gaming died out by the early 90s, he simply clung to his notoriety as a nostalgia act, sketchiness included. Away from gaming, he had it rough. He spent years working dead end jobs, and was in an abusive relationship with his wife, whom he kept his life as a gamer a complete secret. Then his circumstances just kept getting worse and worse, as he lost his brother in a drowning accident, his wife died of an overdose, and he almost lost his own life in a car crash. I think his notoriety in the gaming world is a bubble he constantly tends to stay in, since it seemed like the one thing in his life of any remote significance. If life was kinder to Todd, and he was honest, he could have seriously been a programmer to the same extent as Ben Heck or Omnigamer. He does come off very likeable and knowledgeable, at least on the surface, but I guess he'll forever be acknowledged as a pro bullshitter.
"the king of video games" is a title he gave him self, and 5.57 seems to be the ultimate fastest time you can get, and thus video Ben Heck did proofs that 100% . you can jerk that joystick to the left all you want, it wont make you go faster than a program simulating the best possible runs!.
It does nothing of the kind. The whole point of this episode was to demonstrate the hardware, test the software, and verify that the spreadsheet model worked.
Then what do you call the world record page now giving a 404 not found error Jock? The record has been expunged, it doesn't matter what liars say, the score is impossible to actually get so it's obviously a fraudulently inserted record! So you see how people can lie even about something that's impossible that can be proven impossible? TRUTH AS THE AUTHORITY! Those who are liars are not speaking with the authority, they are contrary to it!
I am curious which version(s) of the 2600 Todd made his record on. The 2600 had many incarnations - 6 switch woodie, 4 switch woodie, Darth Vader, Sears Tele-Games ugly woodie, scaled down Jr., not to mention the 2600 hardware emulators on the Coleco, Intellivision, 5200 and built-in 7800. And IIRC, weren't there revision numbers printed on the bottom of each console? So which one(s) did he achieve his high score on and which revision? Could the hardware be 100% consistent across all of these versions, and thus, maybe one of the above's bus or CPU is running at a slightly higher rate - a crude version of overclocking?
what i was wondering too, they have shown in arcade games failing components or totally dead components change the behavior on games slightly that is barely noticable until it is brough down to "measured" times versus similar hardware
Why not use a genetic algorithm that generates the button presses, and iterate over it thousands, ten thousands, millions of times to generate an optimum.
Genetic algorithms do not always get the optimal input. They are used to search an impossibly big solution space. In this case is easy to try every possible input. Wich omnigamer did and got that the best possible time is 5.57
I dont know jack shit about this game and world record, but I can imagine it is. And with enough time a genetic algorithm can create a near optimal output anyways. But sure.
It's more fun to hard code the solution and find it yourself. Guess that's the difference between someone who like to program at a lower level, and someone who codes at a higher level.
Todd looks uncomfortable and nervous towards the end. Full of shut when he says there is a lot more testing that needs to be done on the original equipment. Thank you Ben for exposing this 80’s cheat
Trying to hand tune the inputs isn't going to cut it. To answer this question we need every possible combination inputs (or a learning neural network for efficiency sake) and their results to put this matter to rest.
Please say there will be a Part 3 to this. Is there some way to program it to run through every possible iteration of buttons pressed? Well, not every iteration, but a smaller amount based on the parts of it you already know are correct. Like, take the 5.57 time as your starting point, and adjust every little detail. I don't know why, but I really want to see this guy vindicated. Or if not, proven conclusively that it isn't possible. Everybody says he's a liar, and we need 100% proof. Good work so far, but we need a bit more.
It's already proven conclusively. The game physically *cannot* be played in such a way so as to beat the 5.57 time, a disassembly of the code proves this outright, and with how simple the game is, there's not really space for something else that has been missed. It's a bit like looking for an extra letter in the alphabet.
The algorithm/code in this game is so short and finite in its possible outcomes that it can be done in a spreadsheet, which should have been enough. But still kudos for Ben Heck to actually do this on real hardware instead to show that there is no doubt that this record is absolutely impossible.
Preston Mcgill Can anyone verify that, though. Have any specific people come forward? It seem strange that no one took a picture an a ‘live event’ Twin Galaxies are a joke.
Be careful about witnesses to Todd's records. I had to conclusively prove one of his records was impossible (and by far) before the witness that vouched for him confessed he never saw him make the record. Todd's fans WILL resort to lying for him. I've seen them first-hand get that desperate.
He's already been outed for several fraudulent records before this. This is just the first time there's been a concerted, stubborn effort to defend his fraud.
But you are refuting activision's claims that they verified his score with nothing but speculation. So it is more complicated than that. In the Kotaku article David Crane says "We have credible empirical evidence that 5.51 was, in fact, possible. The question should be, ‘Why does the mathematical analysis disagree with the empirical evidence?’” So if you are going to challenge Rogers, you need more than vague conspiracy theories.
Jock Murphy The Todd defender has logged on. Even if his Dragster time is real he has a history of making up impossible scores. All of his "records" should be heavily scrutinized. But then again Twin Galaxies is the laughing stock of gaming so who really cares?
I beat Quickman’s stage in MM2 without using the time stopper on the instant death beam portion on my first try the other day, after last doing it in ... 1993? Yet I can’t consistently remember where I park each day. Brains are weird at what they store.
Speed runners of some of the most complex video games today know exactly what buttons they press at a specific time. This game is so simple and he can’t even remember how many pops (under 10) he does in a gear out of a few.
Just to help me understand... I believe Ben said that one frame represented 0.03 seconds. So the difference between the 5.57 and the 5.51 is 2 frames. Correct? Or is it 4 because of the player 0 / player 1 interlacing?
Yes,he have witness one of the referee of twin galaxies(Todd's best friend) that referee is the one who input and verified all of Todd records at twin galaxies(hundreds of them) how amazing is that?
Good for Todd Rogers talking about this, but at the end of the day, you can't prove a negative (or that the 5.51 is impossible). The burden of proof is on the supposed record holder. Since Rogers claims he made the 5.51, he needs to provide evidence or bow out; certainly no one else has been able to prove that sub-5.57 is possible.
Brian Cook actually you can prove a time is impossible. You just have to check every possible input combination which with a game like this isn't too difficult.
+GTB7979 Well, in a way he stole the chance from genuine high score holders for sponsoring and events, and was given undeserved attention and money by game manufacturers and convention organizers
you are confusing scientific philosophy with mathematics/computer science. The code is I assume is wholely deterministic - the "time" displayed can always be determined from any given set of inputs.
I'm confused, in the description and in the video it is said that he did the 5.51 in front of a live audience twice, but then according to other sources there are no witnesses and the score is apparently impossible. So are they lying about the live audiences? Is he accused of manipulating/rigging the game somehow, or just straight up lying about it with no proof?
"Hmmm well we've gotten absolutely nowhere listening to Todd, let's punch in Omnigamer's numbers. Oh, it worked first try. Well thanks for coming, Todd!"
lmao
Coach McGurk nice name. You forgot the "i" though. Or was that name taken? Hehe
Exactly!
at least I didn't spell it Coach McGeek :)
Except it failed the first time 😂. But I get your point
Todd: "You can only get 5.51 when you play by yourself, with no cameras, and no visible evidence".
Ben tried so hard not to embarrassed this dude...
It was Todd, who embarrased himself.
@@markusTegelane - that's what I was going to say lol.... you're definitely right!!
Todd is a fraud
RIP
EZScape didn’t you make a video on this guy?
tell your appolla to comment i want to upvote his comment but not your you cuc cc
In the first part of these episodes they used your thumbnail as a image near the beginning of the video
EZScape was this a premonition of todds scores getting pulled from TG? RIP todd rodgers
L Daniels yes EZ did and he hasn't made a video correcting his video yet which praised Todd!
I am amazed that Todd agreed to this. This is probably going to be embarrassing for him.
It shows that he is insanely deluded, not that he achieved the time.
shows u can say whatever you wanted back then without cellphones/easily handy technology to record fact/truths.
It speaks to his confidence in the corrupt system of twin galaxies maintaining the status quo in spite of overwhelming evidence whilst defying all common sense.
VideoGame Polak I would agree, back then we had crappy technology and it wasn’t way to do these things to disprove what someone said. Now it’s all coming back, karma is a bitch.
+zacharymop yeah well that confidence wasnt well placed, all his records have just been pulled from tg and he is banned, maybe todd can still get a guinness world record for longest scam but anything else is getting stricken from them as well
Todd Rogers used to claim that he started the game in 2nd to get his 5.51. So why didn't he explain how that worked so that he could achieve it now? My guess would be because he forgot about that lie.
Ozrith Clay According to the TASer that started this whole situation, if you were able to start in 2nd the way Todd describes, something like a 2.×× is possible.
Not on the video I saw. He said you needed both in 2nd and already be moving.
But that's beside the point. Why didn't Todd even bring that up here? My guess is he would have to prove it and he can't.
PS a few months back I saw Todd Rodgers on video saying he feels cursed that he can't get better than a 5.7 when on camera. Interesting that that's what his instructions got here. Almost like he doesn't even know how to get a better speed.
Because he knows it doesn't actually work
and even if he did it would still not be a GLITCHLESS run
Nego Rego Ala um br q entende de speedrun
I think I figured out what the problem is. Todd Rogers is a liar.
Jack Ryan Everyone is thought of that already. As they soon thought it's impossible, we're know he's a liar.
Trimint Pikachu no shit he was joking
I bet when Todd, The Human Element, agreed to do this, he thought that they'd get scores lower than 5.51 making his WR all the more plausible.
Yes he's that dumb. It's ok. He and the Donkey Kong guy are gone
The act of measuring the record collapses the quantum state rendering it unobservable.
relevant.
Collapsing wave functions and Schrodinger's car paradox. Entertaining sir.
where were you when todd was left hanging lol.... you could have taken his lies to a new level
Ah, the Chopra defence.
Twin Galaxies has made a verdict. Tod has lost. ALL of his scores have been removed and he has been banned.
Yeah,at least they fixed it
not like Todd
Twin Galaxies shouldn't be allowed to be the official high score entity, because they took waY WAY too long to make this verdict!
The Guiness of World Records should choose another entity to decide who it prints.
Longest Fake WR
@Base Bass Forte Not anymore hahahaha.
Ben, your computer just isn't fast enough to compete with Todd Rogers: King of Video Games
H U M A N E L E M E N T Kappa
He didn't get his nickname like that. He made it by himself.
Trimint Pikachu you're just jealous of the king
Dandypanty It's fucking true. He called himself that.
Trimint Pikachu nah he's just known that way for being so amazing
So... that's a no. 5.57 is the best you can get? Also why was his claim of starting in 2nd gear not looked into? I know you probably didn't want to embarrass the poor guy but it is time to put this to bed.
I don't think they said this was the last episode, just that this is the progress so far. They had to validate the approach and test against the spreadsheet.
jd52wtf come to think of it, if you could start in second gear, then a 5,51 would be a really bad time
Sure, and I would love to see someone either prove or disprove if starting in second gear is possible. This episode was about testing Ben's hardware and testing methodology. This is the middle of the story, not the end
Yea it's easy to start in 2nd gear or 3rd or 4th, but starting in second gear doesn't really seem to help you, for the same reason starting in 4th gear won't help... Change address 0xCC (player 0's gear) to 02... Stella cheat code: CC02... A side effect of starting in a gear allows you to start the race before the countdown timer elapses but you also have to make sure not to shift until it does or it still catches you 'starting early' you just can't shift early but you can cheat by already being in gear :D (apply the cheat, unpause the game, pause it and unapply it [so you aren't stuck in 2nd gear the whole race])
Is that possible to do without cheating? I haven't seen a way that it is... Upon reset of the game the gear is reset to 0 (neutral) along with initializing all the other variables it initializes, and you can't skip past gear 1 to get to 2... You can just immediately shift into 2nd gear at the start of the race, but similarly to the cheat method it doesn't yield a positive result (you've slowed yourself down by not being in the optimal gear)
That is genuinely interesting, and I hope Ben Heck cover that and test it through the different variations. I do not have a dog in the race. I am not especially disposed to Rogers, I care about the process; which is what I have been saying
'The king of video games'
It's nice Todd Togers stayed modest.
This is ridiculous. Even IF 5.51 turned out to be possible, it doesn't prove that he ever did it. What happened to starting in second gear which he has been babbling about for decades now? No mention of it at all in this video, kinda strange if you ask me. He's already had several records removed. The only sensible thing is to pull this one until he performs it "again" on camera.
I agree, the past month has just continued to expose him. It's kinda sad really
Thanks for doing this Ben!
It will be interesting to see what Part 3 has in store....
You did it first man! All this does is confirm your spread sheet analysis. I knew your weren't lying. I still watch your world record video when I need a pick me up. Your "F%$#@ YEAH!" never ceases to put a smile on my face. And you did it before Darbian, who is no slouch by any standard! When it comes to speedrunning you're a legend man, embrace it.
Just imagine being Todd Rogergs sitting and lying to someone straight to their faces while cameras are running, for several hours.
"Well I think there's a lot more testing to be done!" Ben's stare into the camera after that cheat of 30+ years said that says it all 😂😂
Damn, why would Todd do this? He just buried his own grave on this WR thing.
the offer for this was higher than he anticipated potential earnings speaking about it in the future.
Dug*
Im still confused about the other two people who got it before him. Rogers says they were disqualified but doesnt say why.
@@ThanatosIRL He invented the story about a Customer Rep calling him to ask about in-depth shifting techniques for that reason. The story claims that the other two were disqualified because they couldn't provide an explanation that would include a different method of playing than a "perfect computer" did. But the dev of the game admitted to at most mathing out a theoretical best, and that he wouldn't ever split hairs over milliseconds -- he would simply assume his theoretical was wrong.
Attention and money.
This Guy faked a WR, even original developers said his time is not possible, the code has even been looked over digit by digit and the evidence of all possible times published, why does he still insist his WR is legit and go around conning people when its been proven humpteen times by different people using different lines of evidence, that its fake.
Except that David Crane the developer of Dragster has said that he witnessed the 5:51. “Activision validated Todd’s Dragster score using the accepted methods of the day,” Crane said. (kotaku.com/doubt-and-drama-still-haunt-an-old-seemingly-impossibl-1796714894)
no you're fake! humpteen isn't even a real number!
twin galaxies has the tape, you just cant see it
No one can, the tape doesn't exist
Well it is entirely possible that the Atari console that was originally used, glitched or dropped a few cycles
ive seen RTC's drop tenths of seconds before due to inconsistent power.
I admire how Ben treated Todd all through this. He gave him the benefit of the doubt and when the results proved inconclusive, Ben simply thanked Todd for coming and granted him the opportunity to maintain face if any. Emily Post couldn't have exhibited more class.
Lol "I preformed it live twice" (without video proof) but I can't seem to do it when there is a camera around lol Rogers is a tool
Christopher Alday Not really fair on the tool, they are useful after all
He said actually he did a 5.51 3 times total with 2 being live which blew my mind
Notice he doesn’t bring up that “shifting into second gear before the race starts” bullshit? He’s not going to mention that to a guy who can prove that it’s impossible.
That absolutely proves he is lying about the record
@@danejurus69 god forbid someone lie about their dragster time.
I found out how he did it. He tried to take a picture of the screen as soon as the rev bars disappear, which is about 5.07, and ended up getting 5.51. He then sent the polaroid in and claimed it was his finish time, when in actuality it was a picture of a race in progress. All those stories of live events and going over computer models of the game are lies too.
Want to know what would have made this even better? For someone to break in with "Excuse me Ben, but there's a guy named Karl Jobst on the line."
Todd seemed really nervous the whole time.
You know part of him was hoping the machine would be able to do it or at least get close
Ben: "...I have to cheat with a computer."
Todd: [mumbles] "I have to cheat using a pedophile."
Ben: "What was that?"
Todd: "Uh...Time for me to be hittin' the ol' dusty trail..."
Jesse Ansell 😂😂😂
@John Perez It's in reference to a former Twin Galaxies employee named Ron Corcoran who vouched for Todd's records but Ron was arrested for molesting a child and is now serving 30 years in prison.
In the first 30 seconds you can already tell you’re dealing with a conman. No one in real life introduces themselves by what they’re “known as” unless it’s for entertainment - maybe someone like a WWE wrestler hyping up their persona or a rapper bragging in a song.
Just imagine hearing “Hi I’m Tom Brady, known as the king of football”, or “Hi I’m Magnus Carlsen, known as the king of chess”
Yeah, the closest you'll get is "I'm Tom Brady of the Superbowl winning Patriots and Buccaneers" and even then that's something you generally hear from a second or third string player and probably in some sort of endorsement. Name-brand people tend not to come out with qualifiers. The Simpsons had an entire character based around this concept back in the day: D-list actor Troy McClure. He would constantly remind the audience of productions he starred in, and they'd always be Dragster-tier productions no one in-universe was familiar with. It's too bad Phil Hartman died before his time because it'd be funny to see an episode where it turns out Troy McClure has lied about most of his resume.
17:15 that awkward moment when Todd realizes he’s caught and starts scratching his head, and Ben is feeling super uncomfortable. Look at their faces after omnigamers data. Haha
Todd claimed he did a 5.51 at two different electronic shows with Activision and yet there's zero proof of that either.
TR looks like a discount Ron Jeremy
Ladies and gentlemen....WE GOT 'EM!!!!!
I find it odd that a famous videogamer from the early 1980's aged into becoming a Super Mario lookalike.
Imagine the psychopathy it takes to walk into a situation like this voluntarily when you know you were cheating all the long. Todd’s knowledge of electronics and technology must be so poor that he actually thought he could BS his way through what is physically and mathematically impossible.
Todd's face after that 5.57, you cannot put a price on it.
surely they could just use a brute force technique to prove it once and for all - leave the system running for a few hours, have it run every possible combination and find the lowest possible time.
has been done - same result. 5.57 is the best possible.
Now we have bruteforce, direct hardware control, and cod analysis.
Todd is basically claiming to have rolled 13 with 2 die that only go up to 6 each.
What Ben should have done was just have Todd play the game right there, live and see if he can do it (while recording the actual joystick inputs).
@@ABaumstumpf The "human element" gives you +1 to dice rolls, so he rolled 2d6, got 12+1
@@JustWasted3HoursHere I'm worse at nearly every game than I was 40 years ago!
@@trickysoft You know, I'm sitting here thinking... "A '1' can look very similar to a '7' if it's handwritten". I wonder if that's what happened and he just rolled with the error?
Good video, it got a bit vague but it looked like they got 5.57 as suggested by Omnigamer but not the magical 5.51.?
Basically. I think it got vague because they didn't want to call out their guest for lying, but also didn't want to pretend that he isn't just BSing.
Hey I've watched it again, all the analysis from Omnigamer seemed to stack up, I'm wondering if there were different versions of the code which may have allowed Todd to get a time that doesn't now appear possible.
Bear in mind that Todd Rodgers has already had records removed for cheating and lying.
Todd is a liar
What about one of those self learning neural evolution programs, could it learn how to plat the game automatically ?
yes. Somebody should add Dragster to the Arcade Learning Environment
Also get a perfect score on decathlon.
This needs to happen.
Pointless.
This game is so simple that it is actually far easier to just run every possible combination of inputs than using any form of self improving system.
better yet - somebody did the work, looked through the actual gamecode and crunched the numbers to get the best possible outcome - and it is 5.57 . That is according the the actual game code. Without manipulating the RAM or software somehow you can not get any better time than that.
it is kinda like Todd claiming he got 13 by rolling 2 die that go form 1 to 6 only.
Came to watch Rogers get exposed, stayed for the coding and deconstruction. That was awesome.
His record was just officially removed from the record books.
And he's banned for life
This had to be so awkward. Ben and pretty much everybody else there knows Todd is full of shit but they have to pretend like he isn't. Ben knows the computer is doing the fastest time possible in the game but has to say "there were some limitations that kinda held us back" when he know full well it is totally impossible to get the time Todd claims. Why didn't Todd try and play the game? He probably can't even get a 5.57!
You can't tell me there's not one other person who can duplicate this record considering it's a static strategy. No variance to it, it's just a trick. And with all these young guys now smashing old arcade scores at will, with this game's popularity now somebody surely would have replicated the time by now.
He got exposed
its almost like Todd's theories were "blown"
omfg
pwned
tbh
Now 0:52 is a real record.
Congrats on your new untied WRs my man
Brandon JC what?
These computers performing inputs just don't the same capabilities Todd Rogers has. I mean, these simulations don't even take into account the h u m a n e l e m e n t.
PrestonsTV
You mean lying?
Go watch some TAS runs and you'll see how ridiculous that comment is.
And Ozrith Clay's response is a prime example of the trope known as "Comically missing the point".
Get your meme game up to speed! :P
Understandable, have a nice day.
MarthSK Speedruns his memes dont have the d a n k e l e m e n t
Cringe & Painful to watch. Poor Mr Togers
I am seriously thinking how did this man bamboozled the referees he performed the record with
It's pretty easy when you're good friends with the referees... or you *are* the referee.
He's a marketing tool, made to popularize and promote games, of course they'd let him get all these "records"
No referee ever saw Todd perform this. Activision said they "trusted him," and so the official certification of this record comes from Rogers himself. Aaaaaand given his history of lying about his records, I'm pretty sure everybody in the know (so to speak,) saw this coming from about a mile away.
scrumpyboom Yeah, pretty revolting.
+capthowitzer
He originally submitted the time via Polaroid to Activision. However, he and Acitivsion claim that they observed him get a 5.51 in person. He also claims he later got another 5.51 in a live performance.
Obviously that can't be true, because a 5.51 is impossible. But neither TG nor Acitivision claims to have just trusted him.
If any other person or computer could do better than 5.57 his claim would be more believable. If there were people getting 5.55, 5.53 etc. then maybe. He either cheated, lied or somehow mixed up a 7 for a 1 but no way he got 5.51
The time can't get be a 5.56, 5.55, 5.53 or 5.52. Each frame the timer increases with 0.0334, going 5.51, 5.54, 5.57, 5.61 and so on.
I bet you he confused 7 for 1. Then once he found out what a big deal that was, he shopped his photo and kept on saying he did it.
@@BackForwardPunch I'm wondering if they weren't writing his times down on paper or something. Maybe over the course of hours of playing, they went back to look at what the best was, and the 7 looked like a 1. All it would take is for someone to say "is that a 7 or a 1" and Todd insist it was a 1.
ill never get that time back
Neither will Todd.
*Drops mic*
-DepthCharge that is probably one of the most clever comments ive ever seen.hats off to you. would gild you
-DepthCharge Sick burn!
No, I think John Hokanson wins that comment round. IF you know what is he referring to : D
Ben is a class act . He knew what was coming
I just think it’s so strange that he says he performed 5.51 twice live yet, there’s no evidence of it.
There is evidence. There's the polaroid of his 5.51 score that he sent to Activisions.
...it's just a coincidence that they never sent the polaroid back and nobody knows where it is and they can't find anyone who says they ever saw it xD
Maybe more testing on the hardware is not what we need. Maybe what we actually need is to spend more time on the "Human Element".
DarkLightBoco The "human element" in this situation is irrelevant. We know exactly how fast the 6507 CPU is running (1.19 MHz, or 1190000 cycles per second). We know exactly how many cycles each instruction takes. So, for example, we know that a 2-cycle instruction like CLC (CLear Carry flag) takes 0.0000016807 seconds, and the slowest instruction (7 cycles) is 0.0000058823 seconds.
We can analyze the program one instruction at a time and figure out *exactly* what the fastest run would be, assuming that everything is working as it should do. (In other words, that the 6507 is running at exactly 1.19 MHz and there are no weird electrical glitches that mess with the program.) It's only a 2 kB cartridge, and not all of that is program data. Plus, we only have to analyze the part of the code between the time the race starts and the time one player wins. It would still be time consuming, but not implausible. And the fastest run, based on every analysis done so far, is *not* 5.51, which is why Todd's record is in dispute. The burden of the proof, in this case, is on Todd.
The human element has never been able to provide evidence of a 5.51. Thus we remove him and see if it is possible with perfect machine inputs.
It is not.
And so I name this "human element" Untruthium.
Of course the human element is irrelevant, it is a complete joke. I am just really annoyed with this whole dispute and I think many other people also are too. There is so much evidence against it yet it is still not removed. There is no way 5.51 is possible without some kind faulty hardware or bad rom being used or Todd's mystery trick he keeps lying about.
Magic isn't real, stoner. You can't do something faster than the minimum time required to achieve that task in the way you're trying to achieve it.
Can't help but notice Karen is nowhere to be found while Todd the Creeper is in the building. Smart move.
lmfao twin galaxies is so bad. Todd is dreading the day he's going to have to wake up without his hundreds of bogus self-given records in 25+ year old arcade games. His psyche really might collapse without his lie.
Coming clean seems to be the hardest thing for this guy to do.
Now we just have to wait for TG to remove his record from the list
El Calabeza it will happen one day.. when all of his friends working there finally die off from old age lol
Chris Anderson It literally just happened. Gotta wait and see what Rogers says now
It's not just that record that is gone, all of it is gone, the man himself is banned.
Nope Chris, see we can actually effect change when we expose fraud for what it is and press the issue and never let up, we were as relentless at exposing the fraud as he was at trying to defend it, actually even moreso! Expose lies and fraud wherever it exists and none of their 'authority' liar figures that say otherwise nor any of their propaganda media can stop us from realizing the change we want to see!
Bro it's like being alone in a room in a friendly dinner with a serial killer who killed your best friend.
17:13 - "It was at this moment..."
You had a good run Tad!
Or was it "Tim?"
"Tom?"
No, it was definitely "Tad." I remember because it rhymes with "SAD." Wait, where are you going with that rope, step-ladder, and s**t**n, Tad?! Tad, this is no time for arts and crafts!
didnt the guy post a fake picture recently trying to fake the record again?
Someone recently dug up a comment he made on the AtariAge forums in 2003 where he included a photo of his TV showing a 5.54 time. The checkerboard pattern that the JPEG compression created seemed to disappear on the part of the photo showing the time, suggesting it was probably shopped.
Don't know, but he did apparently send a Polaroid to Activision with the original 5.51. How he faked that is anyone's guess. I wonder if Activision still has it?
Activision doesn't have it. I don't remember where I got this, but I read something from an Activision employee who said they would keep stuff like those Polaroids for no more than a couple weeks maybe.
That's a shame because that would certainly help to support Todd's claim. Polaroids, especially back then, are extremely difficult to fake.
At this point it doesn't even matter. In the unlikely event that we were able to prove Todd's 5.51 as legitimate beyond a shadow of a doubt, it wouldn't really matter, because it doesn't affect the countless other records that have also been shown to be BS. How can he defend getting a 1698 in Wabbit, a game that has a kill screen at 1300? How can he defend getting a 65,000,000 in Centipede, where the next best score is 58,078? How can he defend any of his countless records that were just posted to the boards with no evidence? Proving one score as legitimate wouldn't fix the damage that's been done.
This guy is a Liar every time he has been asked to prove it he gives some BS excuse and he has never been able to do it on camera. Really you are just taking his word on it. HE IS A LIAR!
I hold the world record for the number of Bigfoot sightings by a single human being.
Todd is so uncomfortable sitting there watching someone break the game. He never ever imagined this was going to happen.
Speed Runner Darbian tired the world Record live on Twitch stream last year. He had a camera on his face and on his hands/controller as well as his TV. After he tied the record, he turned his face camera to his TV so you could see that the Twitch Stream was showing the same thing and that everything was lined up perfectly. He basically pulled off a TAS run on dragster with human input and if you watched any of his other world record runs on the multitude of games that Darbian runs, you'll notice that his reactions to front the world records are all the same. It's genuine.
Reactions to getting***
Todd's Dragster trick posted at atariage forum: "TAP, TAP ..... TAP .... TAP ... TAP, TAP". He is such an amazing player! :)
I don't think they explained why they ran the omni data in 8 loops. but when you get anything from 5,57 to fail, there is for certain something there to take advantage of.
why 8 ?
is it possible to find another frame to start on?
Anyone else just feel really bad for this guy even though he cheated? His entire life has revolved around this and it seems like he never had anything before or after. Does he have family? It's just so pathetic that a 50 year old would still be holding on and willing to sue people over records for game's that people don't even know exist anymore. Ask 97% of gamers and I bet they've never heard of this game.
I grew up just a little bit after this era and only kinda sorta remembered the game when the controversy started, and it may have been because I once started it up in an emulator when those became practical in the 90s. Same with Barnstorming. Besides the Todd Togers thing, these games are relevant only if you're interested in the early history of Activision.
I really do, when looking past his cheating and tendency to lie. If you see interviews with Todd as a teenager, he just seems like a bright, sweet, humble dude with a lot of potential. But I guess once he grew up and competitive arcade gaming died out by the early 90s, he simply clung to his notoriety as a nostalgia act, sketchiness included. Away from gaming, he had it rough. He spent years working dead end jobs, and was in an abusive relationship with his wife, whom he kept his life as a gamer a complete secret. Then his circumstances just kept getting worse and worse, as he lost his brother in a drowning accident, his wife died of an overdose, and he almost lost his own life in a car crash. I think his notoriety in the gaming world is a bubble he constantly tends to stay in, since it seemed like the one thing in his life of any remote significance. If life was kinder to Todd, and he was honest, he could have seriously been a programmer to the same extent as Ben Heck or Omnigamer. He does come off very likeable and knowledgeable, at least on the surface, but I guess he'll forever be acknowledged as a pro bullshitter.
I can't believe this guy agreed to come onto your show and be proven wrong and be recorded while doing it...
"the king of video games" is a title he gave him self, and 5.57 seems to be the ultimate fastest time you can get, and thus video Ben Heck did proofs that 100% . you can jerk that joystick to the left all you want, it wont make you go faster than a program simulating the best possible runs!.
If Todd can't play front of the audiences then clearly it never happened
Just proves he can't even get a 5.57 fraudster
fraud rogers as they call him, although he does have some legit plays
Listen Laura curren is fake star fire 2 was never released her score is not older cat stfu u irrelevant snatch
It does nothing of the kind. The whole point of this episode was to demonstrate the hardware, test the software, and verify that the spreadsheet model worked.
Then what do you call the world record page now giving a 404 not found error Jock? The record has been expunged, it doesn't matter what liars say, the score is impossible to actually get so it's obviously a fraudulently inserted record! So you see how people can lie even about something that's impossible that can be proven impossible? TRUTH AS THE AUTHORITY! Those who are liars are not speaking with the authority, they are contrary to it!
Rudy Ferretti darbian did
Fraud Rogers
Fraud fraudgers
Ben totally forgot about the "human element" of lying.
It was gonna be the perfect crime for Todd Rogers. I guess he never thought technology would get to this point.
I wonder how Todd Rogers can still keep a straight face when he says 5.51 is possible. Maybe he's done it for so long that it's like reflex.
I am curious which version(s) of the 2600 Todd made his record on. The 2600 had many incarnations - 6 switch woodie, 4 switch woodie, Darth Vader, Sears Tele-Games ugly woodie, scaled down Jr., not to mention the 2600 hardware emulators on the Coleco, Intellivision, 5200 and built-in 7800. And IIRC, weren't there revision numbers printed on the bottom of each console? So which one(s) did he achieve his high score on and which revision? Could the hardware be 100% consistent across all of these versions, and thus, maybe one of the above's bus or CPU is running at a slightly higher rate - a crude version of overclocking?
what i was wondering too, they have shown in arcade games failing components or totally dead components change the behavior on games slightly that is barely noticable until it is brough down to "measured" times versus similar hardware
Why not use a genetic algorithm that generates the button presses, and iterate over it thousands, ten thousands, millions of times to generate an optimum.
how's that fun?
How's it not fun? It is interesting to see how these algorithms work, it is informative, and you get the answer if the time is possible or not.
Genetic algorithms do not always get the optimal input. They are used to search an impossibly big solution space. In this case is easy to try every possible input. Wich omnigamer did and got that the best possible time is 5.57
I dont know jack shit about this game and world record, but I can imagine it is. And with enough time a genetic algorithm can create a near optimal output anyways. But sure.
It's more fun to hard code the solution and find it yourself. Guess that's the difference between someone who like to program at a lower level, and someone who codes at a higher level.
_What sort of things should we try?_
iono, honesty and a haircut?
His body language starts around 13:00 flat. Absolutely hilarious
Todd looks uncomfortable and nervous towards the end. Full of shut when he says there is a lot more testing that needs to be done on the original equipment. Thank you Ben for exposing this 80’s cheat
todd togers
The King Of Video Games
@@travellingshoes5241
*The King Turd of Bullshit Mountain
ftfy
Trying to hand tune the inputs isn't going to cut it. To answer this question we need every possible combination inputs (or a learning neural network for efficiency sake) and their results to put this matter to rest.
Please say there will be a Part 3 to this. Is there some way to program it to run through every possible iteration of buttons pressed? Well, not every iteration, but a smaller amount based on the parts of it you already know are correct. Like, take the 5.57 time as your starting point, and adjust every little detail. I don't know why, but I really want to see this guy vindicated. Or if not, proven conclusively that it isn't possible. Everybody says he's a liar, and we need 100% proof. Good work so far, but we need a bit more.
It's already proven conclusively. The game physically *cannot* be played in such a way so as to beat the 5.57 time, a disassembly of the code proves this outright, and with how simple the game is, there's not really space for something else that has been missed. It's a bit like looking for an extra letter in the alphabet.
The algorithm/code in this game is so short and finite in its possible outcomes that it can be done in a spreadsheet, which should have been enough. But still kudos for Ben Heck to actually do this on real hardware instead to show that there is no doubt that this record is absolutely impossible.
"The King of Video Games"
This is a grown man saying this!
Is there any proof of the other times he claims he got 5.51?
Nope
No actual proof, just anecdotal. And for some reason someone saying ‘honest’ gets you a ‘WR’
Description says he got a 5.51 twice in front of live audience's in 1982
Preston Mcgill Can anyone verify that, though. Have any specific people come forward? It seem strange that no one took a picture an a ‘live event’ Twin Galaxies are a joke.
Be careful about witnesses to Todd's records. I had to conclusively prove one of his records was impossible (and by far) before the witness that vouched for him confessed he never saw him make the record. Todd's fans WILL resort to lying for him. I've seen them first-hand get that desperate.
"Yes, I have heard of that, it's strange. "
Already caught photoshopping on twitter, bro let this one go, you still have plenty of records
He's already been outed for several fraudulent records before this. This is just the first time there's been a concerted, stubborn effort to defend his fraud.
OK but if Rogers is lying, he got multiple people at Activision to lie as well. So it isn't as simple as all that
Or he got people at Activision to believe his lies the same way Twin Galaxies did.
It's not that complicated.
But you are refuting activision's claims that they verified his score with nothing but speculation. So it is more complicated than that. In the Kotaku article David Crane says "We have credible empirical evidence that 5.51 was, in fact, possible. The question should be, ‘Why does the mathematical analysis disagree with the empirical evidence?’” So if you are going to challenge Rogers, you need more than vague conspiracy theories.
Jock Murphy The Todd defender has logged on. Even if his Dragster time is real he has a history of making up impossible scores. All of his "records" should be heavily scrutinized. But then again Twin Galaxies is the laughing stock of gaming so who really cares?
Any chance a old atari using crap rf signal hooked up to a crap 1979 crt tv looked like a 5.51 but really was a 5.57?
Yikes. Also I love how apparently he was the one who started calling himself "The King of video games."
Todd Rogers final thoughts : I think there is more testing to be done...
Does this guy really remember how to play this game / how the inputs have to be executed like 40 years later?
Well, he's known as "The King of Video Games", so DUH!
Why did you puke Mr Pringels?
probably drunk
I beat Quickman’s stage in MM2 without using the time stopper on the instant death beam portion on my first try the other day, after last doing it in ... 1993?
Yet I can’t consistently remember where I park each day. Brains are weird at what they store.
Came from Karl Jobst, just wanting to watch this classic.
Speed runners of some of the most complex video games today know exactly what buttons they press at a specific time. This game is so simple and he can’t even remember how many pops (under 10) he does in a gear out of a few.
Why didnt you just record his input?
Just to help me understand... I believe Ben said that one frame represented 0.03 seconds. So the difference between the 5.57 and the 5.51 is 2 frames. Correct? Or is it 4 because of the player 0 / player 1 interlacing?
He claims there were 2 live demonstrations of him getting 5.51. Is there any evidence of it? Witness? Pictures?
Nothing at all, no.
Yes,he have witness
one of the referee of twin galaxies(Todd's best friend)
that referee is the one who input and verified all of Todd records at twin galaxies(hundreds of them)
how amazing is that?
Ben: I have to cheat with a computer.
Todd: Oh, I just cheat by lying.
Good for Todd Rogers talking about this, but at the end of the day, you can't prove a negative (or that the 5.51 is impossible). The burden of proof is on the supposed record holder. Since Rogers claims he made the 5.51, he needs to provide evidence or bow out; certainly no one else has been able to prove that sub-5.57 is possible.
Brian Cook actually you can prove a time is impossible. You just have to check every possible input combination which with a game like this isn't too difficult.
Only an IDIOT would trust Todd or this BS at this point
+GTB7979
Well, in a way he stole the chance from genuine high score holders for sponsoring and events, and was given undeserved attention and money by game manufacturers and convention organizers
you are confusing scientific philosophy with mathematics/computer science. The code is I assume is wholely deterministic - the "time" displayed can always be determined from any given set of inputs.
I'm confused, in the description and in the video it is said that he did the 5.51 in front of a live audience twice, but then according to other sources there are no witnesses and the score is apparently impossible. So are they lying about the live audiences? Is he accused of manipulating/rigging the game somehow, or just straight up lying about it with no proof?