Collective Soul The Billy Corgan Smashing Pumpkins Feud Over 'Shine'
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- Опубліковано 9 лют 2021
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#collectivesoul #thesmashingpumpkins #billycorgan
This is a fan request that came through recently and if you guys have suggestions for future topics you’d like to see me cover, then use the google form in the description box below. I’ve got some amazing suggestions from you guys, so keep them coming. Today’s story involves a feud between two bands who were huge in the 90’s. The Smashing Pumpkins and Collective Soul. Stay tuned for the full story.
Collective Soul ascended to prominence in the mid 90’s with their 1994 hit single Shine from their debut album. The song was a huge hit topping the US Mainstream rock charts and it was also a crossover hit peaking at number 11 on the US billboard hot 100.
Ed Roland, the singer for Collective Soul, recalled to Songfacts how he came up with the song revealing "I had riffs - this was the late '80s and I was writing a lot of songs. I called it "drone," I was in a band at the time. But I always had the "Shine" riff, and I thought, "That's a cool riff." Then I came home and spent the night with my parents and Dean, who is 10 years younger than me - I didn't even know he played guitar. So he was playing guitar, and I joined in. I just showed him the riff, and I was like, "I need to finish this." So, I literally just wrote it right there, with Dean, sitting in my parents' living room. I didn't think anything about it. I probably wrote it in 1989, and it wasn't out until 1994" he'd say.
Because of the lyrical content of Shine, some in the press labeled collective soul as a christian or religious band because of the mention of the word heaven in the lyrics. Roland elaborated to Popmatters"I remember around the time ["Shine" came out] getting into an argument with a writer who said, 'You're a Christian band.' I said, 'No, we're not.' 'Well, you have the word heaven in your song.' And I said, 'Well, so does Led Zeppelin. I don't remember anyone saying they were a Christian band.'"
It was during that the time that Shine took off, The Smashing Pumpkins frontman Billy Corgan slammed Collective Soul in the press referring to Frontman Roland as a "shameless rip off artist" According to Cleveland.com Corgan was upset over how similar the song sounded to, Drown. According to Cleavland.com Corgan was so upset that he sued Collective Soul in the mid 90’s but Roland was able to produce a demo of the song that dated back to 1989, which predated the formation of the Smashing Pumpkins. It was rumored that Collective Soul for their second album, which was self titled and came out in 1995 wrote a diss track about corgan in 1995 called Smashing Young Man. While Corgan isn’t named in the track there are lyrics like "synthetic-like," and saying he lives in a "self-lit spotlight
And as recently as 2020 Ed Roland gave an interview to Cleavland.com where he clarified what the song was about saying
veryone thought that because he was busy smack-talking about us all the time -- which didn't bother me at all. It's just a fun song, and the next thing you know Billy starts coming at me again and I'm like, "Dude! No, no no..." And finally, there was one point where I just said, "Yeah, it was written about him, sure. Whatever he wants to think, I don't care." But I love Smashing Pumpkins. If I ever met Billy, I'd tell him what a great musician, great songwriter he is. I've got nothing negative to say. I've got other things to do in my life than to bitch about people he'd say.
The Smashing Pumpkins would surprisingly cover “Shine” at a show in 2010 briefly and heres what happened..” Whoa, heaven let your light shine down. I hate that song. What a rip off of my band. Fast forward to
2019 and Billy Corgan was answering fan questions on Instagram when one fan asked the frontman if he ever made peace with collective soul to which he replied F*** Collective Soul. Now and always.So that does it for today's video guys thanks for watching. Go listen to both of the songs and let me know if you see any similarities. As always if you have any suggestions for future topics use the google form down below. Take care.
Pretty sure that Billy Corgan has even had a feud with my cat at some point over litter tray preference.
To be fair they were both nice litter trays
He tried to sue my rat too. Something about a cage not being big enough for the 2 of them 🤔
He did the same to the vampire in my attic. Really weird defamation lawsuit, immediately thrown out when Corgan alleged that only worlds can be vampires.
@Larrydavid As Always your a true Comedian! Loving your comment
@@BATMAN7666 😁👍
Billy called it a rip-off even after it was proved to pre-date the entire band? Billy is a talented guy who wrote some excellent music, but he constantly comes off as just joyless and miserable.
@@jessejameskaine I'm just going by what was said in the video
@@jessejameskaine didn't help him win his case. Or if there was no lawsuit, Billy just hates the song and band for no reason.
Why does he always have to be so negative about people all the time?
@@jessejameskaine You cannot tell me how I view things for myself. You are not me. I can see how I was generalizing, I was wrong there, yes. What perceived injustice are you talking about though? Not playing past songs? Injustice is too strong a word for that. Yeah he has the right to be pissed off and he wants to live for now, but I have see clips and heard audio of him being downright mean to fans. The people who help him pay his bills. He should be more respectful. He seems bitter. These are my feelings. I already know the media cannot be trusted, thanks.
@@jessejameskaine I know that.
Billy Corgan playing Shine: people happily singing along.
Billy Corgan hating Shine: people cheering in approval
🤷🏻
People are dumb.
🐑🐑🐑🐑
@@Pugetwitch that's what I thought..Sheeple are easily entertained
As much as I love Smashing Pumpkins, Corgan does come off as a giant douchebag. Absolutely love the way Ed Roland handled the situation, though.
GET GODESS GAGGED BACK!
@@buildusarocket3410 Preaching to the choir. ;)
That Corgan has always been such a self-involved douchebag always prevented me from really liking Smashing Pumpkins.
Corgan is a genius songwriter. Douchebag or not he's the man.
@@wolfstar675 there’s plenty of people worthy of that title that don’t come off like giant cocks
Collective Soul is an incredible band. One of the all-time greats!
Despite all his rage, Billy’s still just a rat in a cage!!!! 😂😂😂😂😂
hey i think you lifted that line from somewhere, i see another feud brewing.
At least you think your own joke is funny
Corny
Lol
Did you ever get your cease and desist from Billy?
“Nobody EVER played octave melodies on guitar before me!”
-Billy Corgan
He's probably sued Wes Montgomery...
@@MrFrankfurt13 I was gonna mention Wes 😂
He's like those Finebrothers you can't react
Bloody hell! Did he actually say that?
George Benson stole that from Billy before Billy was even born. That's how much of a genius Billy is.
Pretty sure Billy Corgen had a feud with himself at some point back in the 90s
I loved Shine when it came out and still do to this day.
You're a herb
@@qotitadelsol8689 Oh wise one, I sure am! The Ganja variety!
Hints allegations and things left unsaid was a great album all the way threw
@@brandongrayson456 I loved it and still own it.
That was the worst band to ride the grunge wave and that song always sucked.
“Oh that Billy’s at it again”. He and Courtney Love sound like a match made in heaven.
Hell*
@@lukasskywalker6514 Totally agree !
Yeah Corgan seems like kinda of a dick. I was way in to grunge during it's heyday but I was never a huge Pumpkins fan. I just can't get past his voice.
@@lukasskywalker6514 😂 😂
@@niteporter So the song Doll Parts, which is a love anthem to Cobain, was written by Cobain? Or was it by Billy?
The more I hear about Billy the more I question my love for the band
Same. And to think that I like them.
This video has almost turned me off them completely. I love collective soul.
I agree. I love both bands, but Billy constantly proves he is a giant douche. Collective Soul proved they wrote the song before The Smashing Pumpkins were formed and he is still claiming they ripped him off. More like the other way around. Ed handled it with class
I don't, but Corgan is a douchebag indeed.
"F*ckin hate that song". Then don't sing it.
IKR. Just sent them some song royalties for playing it, so jokes on you, Billy.
Billy is such an ego maniac. Those songs sound nothing alike. I don't get at all where Billy is coming from.
Free publicity. Good or bad.
@@jessejameskaine so since Sgine predates The Pumpkins the they stole from Collective Soul
@@jessejameskaine The melody has nothing in common in any way. Didnt now it was a 90s move. I was 10 when that song came out. But I appreciate the info.
Always liked Collective Soul. Didn’t think it was fair how they were lumped into the grunge scene though. Their material was more pop rock. But the label issued them the flannel grunge uniform in order to make them more marketable
Meh I totally disagree. Every band who had a lead singer who sang the way he did, was lumped into the "Grunge" band category, back then. Collective Soul never had pop appeal.
@@alienio4970 Not true, really. They had at least five hits I can rattle off the top of my head. They were popular throught the 90s and early 2000s.
@@philfrank5601 yeah, they had some popularity. Couple known singles. But Pop band appeal? No way man
@@alienio4970 Yeah I always thought of them as “90s rock” which is a pretty generic vanilla label. However, the fact they became mainstream rock didn’t make them pop, a phenomenon of the 90s decade with music. I love smashing pumpkins but this is one of several times Corgan comes off as a prick.
Collective Soul continued the AOR/melodic rock sound that was popular throughout the 80's and carried into the early 90's. Band was pretty much 90's arena rock. Band was influenced by R.E.M., Van Halen, Foreigner & Tom Petty.
Ed handled all that perfectly
Who doesn’t he have a “feud” with 🤷🏻
I know. I thought this was a reupload until I started watching.
Who else does he have a feud with? I don't know much about him other than everyone thinks he's an asshole.
Just to Kurt cobain would forgive his wife for rooting corgan. History or no history. Kurt got a raw deal of puffenstuff love.
Hey fuck you, that's my band! Yeah you're right he does feud with everyone lol
@RockMeAmadeus I don't think anyone could blame her either..Especially after seeing the mini doc or either Reels or AXS tv.
Lol he just never let it go that’s hilarious. I never have even thought about these song’s together. I guess I hear the resemblance but to me they are still totally different.
Billy is so talented, The worst part about it is his biggest fan is himself
Billy Corgan is Uncle Fester from the Adams Family 😎
Nah. Uncle Fester had a sense of humor.
Duh da duh duh 🎶 You stole my riff!
Except uglier
Wait, if Billy thinks it sounds like a Smashing Pumpkin rip-off, doesn't that mean he actually likes the song?
Ahh, it's like the chicken and the egg...
As a songwriter...old songs aren't "old"...they're still new to everyone that has yet to hear them.
To make your point, I never heard Shine until a few minutes ago.
I've liked both of these songs since they were released and never once thought to myself that they were all that similar.
I can’t say the same, The first time I heard Drown I thought it was shine because the intro and riff are alike with it just being a sort of crunchy guitar octave drop D melody
@@finncallahan8994 I've been a guitarist for 30+ years, been playing both these songs since day 1. They never sounded similar to me at all. 30+ years alter they still don't. Different chords, different positions, different keys, different riffs. I love Billy but he can be an incredibly narcissistic douche sometimes.
HA!!! I saw this title and I think you just need to create a 'Billy Corgan hates EVERYONE' playlist! You would have 100 videos in there! He is a real character!!!!!
You could make quite a few based on feuds between him and other SP members.
OMG....Billy Corgan fought with everybody in his sight!!!! What a caracter...
Ya he reminds me of his ex girlfriend Courtney love. Lol
@@damiendyda8608 He dumped her or she dumped him???? LOL....
Billy Corgan has a delusional ego. Collective Soul Shine doesn't sound nothing like a Smashing Pumpkins song. Billy is so pissed off with his delusional ego because he's desperate for attention.
@@hectordeleon3408 She dumped him for Kurt. I saw a Billy Corgan interview where he said he was pissed that Kurt stole his lover and he was referring to Courtney as his lover.
@@damiendyda8608 so then he Feuded with Nirvana...???? LOL
Corgan hasn't done anything for over 25 years that mattered in music.
Sure he has... Just ask him!
@Christopher Bingham I agree, only thing is Billy tends to run his mouth. If he was cool and humble there prob wouldn't be any issue.
"Ed Roland produced a demo dating back to 1989"
I NEED that demo tho....
Its sad I can't name one popular rock and roll band of today. I guess rock is dead and it's too bad, but we should be gearing up for a comeback. We need a nirvana like breakthrough at this point, and we need it bad.
Crazy how fast The Smashing Pumpkins imploded after peaking with Mellon Collie.
Typical Billy still love that i saw them at Metro 6 months before they made it big! Despite Billy and his wars LOVE THE PUMPKINS. Billy just needs to LET THE LIGHT SHINE DOWN WOOOH 😳
Love both Collective Soul and Pumpkins. I’ve met Ed and he’s extremely nice.
Seen Collective Soul 4 times now and will continue to see them as much as possible until I can’t. They are AMAZING live! So much energy and it’s crazy for how older they are. Ed moves like he’s in his 20’s. His voice sounds exactly like the albums. I’ve always been a sucker for that simple pop rock stuff and CS did it the best imo. Simple yet effective. Proof you don’t need to be technical to be a great songwriter. Their music has such an uplifting spiritual vibe to it :)
I honestly thought that “Shine” sounds more like “Cherub Rock.” I don’t see a big similarity to “Drown,” though.
I agree, he had to have been pissed at CS for other reasons
“Cherub Rock” intro is a copy of Rush’s “Cygnus X-1 Book I: The Voyage".
@@Carlos-xz3vi I don't hear it. What part?
Acoustic intro doesn't equal a rip off. Both songs are good, but completely different. CS proved their point = get over it Billy.
I have loved Collective Soul since first hearing them. Amazing writing, playing, great spirit and vibe! They have several hits which always made me very emotional, immediately upon hearing them. Billy Corgan and Smashing Pumpkins? Next!
Please stop saying "stay tuned for the full story"...I love your videos dude and have already clicked on it with the intent of watching the whole thing.
Collective Soul is still putting out great music.. F Billy Corgan
Having listened to both songs, I am completely confused as to how Billy could conclude that drown sounds like shine - guess those grunge drugs really were mind altering.
I think that Snail might actually be the track -- there's a part when the distortion kicks in that does sound a lot like Shine. I've never thought that Drown fit the bill.
You could do a 100 part series of Corgan's fueds with
Screw Corgan... Collective Soul records sound as great today as they did 25 years ago.
I can’t wait until my feud with Billy Corgan gets the spotlight.
Thanks for covering this!
Does anyone else find it ironic Billy “fucking hates” a song that he apparently “wrote first”?
Saw collective soul live last month. I’ll definitely see them again when I can
Two of my favorite bands! CS & SP
I wrote "Shine" in 1988 but forgot about it till I heard the song. I have other songs like it. truth
Why does it seem like Billy had a feud with almost everybody
Even just the title is funny...bouta make some feud food for this
Great job Ed!
Incredible
I love collective soul and still do.
I had NO idea about this. In the 90's, my love for Alt Rock was solid so I liked both Bands. I am surprised by Billy's attitude though.
What a Kent. Shine is a way better song than any of Smashing Pumpkins songs anyhow. Where are they now? Collective Soul still going. Great band.
Being humble and treating your fans right goes a long way! I have met the guys in CS and they just love music and to perform. I never knew this beef was here between the two bands. I loved Smashing Pumkins back in the day and this makes me want to never listen to them again. Lol
From what I remember reading.. the singer from collective soul was really into Kings X. This probably explains where this riff came from as it sounds very much inspired by what King’s X was doing in the late 80s.
Thanks man!
Jeez how many feuds does billy corgan have!?
I’m a long time collective soul fan I’ve been a fan since discipline breakdown.....please do a Bad Company video when Brian Howe was the singer and Brian Howes Passing
Fact check: Smashing Pumpkins started in 1988, the lawsuit was over the song "Snail" not "Drown"
Makes even less sense the 2 songs don't sound anything alike.
Haha, I just posted the same comment a year too late.
I was a teenager in the nineties and haven’t heard hear about this feud until now. Like the smashing Pumpkins. However, Collective Soul is my favorite band. Love most of there albums. If Billie wan’t to be that way, to bad. Rock on Collective Soul.
This informative, I never know this stories 👍🏻
I don’t really see a big similarity in the 2
Bro I totally forgot about this! I was racking my brain cause that guy with the SP comment. I remember bow it was drown, and the guy from CS had a demo tape of shine or something. Damn, I'm forgetting everything
Don't forget Chris Cornell, Eddie Vedder, Pavement, Thom York, Devi Ever, Mike Burn, Anderson Cooper.. A list of people Billy had feuds with or people he just hates..
"I look like a vampire"
Nice still shot of Billy and his spare tire belly
Listened to both, love both songs but might need to see that demo tape
Billy is high..we all played something like it at one point..the open string with the single note line is pretty common
Billy stopped a show and yelled at me once.
Awesome. Story time please!
Were you the one who jumped on the stage, or asked why he didn't play 1979 anymore? He has yelled at quite a few people
Shine has the word Heaven in it as does Stairway to Heaven. Bill Corgan was the first person to use the word “Heaven”. He tried to sue Led Zeppelin as well.
Love is in the water
Love is in the air
Show me where to look
Tell me, will love be there?
Will love be there?
I love Billy but he definitely lives in a self-lit spotlight. He tells a story about being tested at school and finding out he was a musical genius. Ive heard his father tell it too but...
Question: What Chicago public school in the 70s or early 80s was testing kids for musical aptitude on a scale that they felt comfortable enough labeling someone a genius?
Answer: there was Not one
Lol BC fights with everyone, but I do like him. He’s a creative genius and mad respect for him.
Billy Corgan vs everyone!
I do admit that the riff sounds extremely similar (considering it is played on a completely different style), but it is hard for me to understand why before making those kind of allegations, Billy simply didn't got in touch with Collective Soul to express his anger/frustration if he really was convinced it was a rip-off. Instead he got slammed with a certified-Master! If i was Collective Soul at the time, i would've counter-sued Smashing Pumpkins for plagiarism (with intention of dropping the case later-on) just for the lulz and to be able to witness Billy's facial expressions XD
For what it's worth, the Pumpkins formed in 1988. Also there seems to be a debate on which SP song Corgan thinks that Shine is a rip-off of: Drown, Snail (probably my pick), Rhinoceros, etc.
Collective Soul is a great band. Going to see them again in August. Ed Roland is a really cool guy. Corgan and Smashing Pumpkins, complete opposite on all counts.
Ed Roland’s a classy lad and always had a very good voice, not to mention Collective Soul’s lyrics were never pompous or see-through self-referential but more direct and still quite deep all the same.
It's funny I bought mellon collie and two Collective Soul albums (discipline breakdown, CollectiveSoul) together, but I didn't know they had a feud😅
Billy clearly just wishes he wrote Shine.
Billy Corgan: One of the most talented assholes to ever grace the earth.
Billy “Washed up” Corgan
Hey guys welcome to billy Corgan true Rock and roll beefs
Damn that dude had a feud with everybody. The songs are completely different.
Hey! Billy! HA HA!
Somebody must do a mashup of Shine, Drown and Cherub Rock.
Billy Corgan looks like a parody of a musician played by Bill Burr.
Is there a 90's band Corgan DIDN'T have a feud with?
Ed was definitely the bigger man here. He proved he wrote the song first, similar songs just happen sometimes. I love both bands and have seen them both twice but yeah Corgan has ego issues.
Goodnight Good Guy- Sounds like Tristessa
Love Lifted me- Sounds like Geek USA
Shine-Sounds like Drown
I kinda get it why he’s frustrated as they do sound similar in some aspects, but I don’t think I’d be THAT angry. Maybe I’d be a bit pissier if I was Billy after CS wrote that smashing song lol
I’m a Smashing Pumpkins fan and I think that a lot of my fellow
fans separate the art from the artist. However, can’t say Billy doesn’t say how he feels for better or for worse. Personally I think it’s a breath of fresh air. Who knows if the singer for CS isn’t just speaking to the fans one way, and is acting another. 🕵️
None of those CS songs sound like Pumpkins rip-offs at all. I'm a fan of both bands, know those songs well, and would have to squint to the point of dishonesty to find anything resembling plagiarism.
I can’t see what Corgan wrote ... u covered it up with graphics lol. Now I have to google 😫😫😫
I like both songs, "Shine" & "Drown".
It's quite a coincidence for both songs to sound similar . I didn't need to listen to Shine since it's etched in my memory. Listening to Drown , It is quite similar .
I'm trying to make a list of people Billy Corgan has *not* feuded with. Can anyone help me?
I probably narrowly escaped it. I used to freelance for Spin magazine and was given a last-minute assignment to write a short piece about Smashing Pumpkins for a 1991 end-of-the-year retrospective focused on new bands. It seemed like a good idea to get a coupla quotes from Billy C and so I asked my editor, "can I get a quick phone interview with this guy?" My editor didn't just nix the idea but sounded scared, as though this was something I should never even think about requesting again. At the time I figured there was a previous problem between Corgan and Spin and they didn't need some metalhead nobody from Nowheresville complicating things. I wrote the piece, Spin ran it and no fallout ensued, so far as I know. But I've always wondered what sort of bullet (with butterfly wings) I might've dodged.
@@reprintranch I know a guy who knows guys who wrote for Spin. You've heard of six degrees of Kevin Bacon? I think everyone is connected by *four* degrees to a Billy Corgan feud.
Come on Billy, Collective Soul is a long forgotten relic. Pumpkins are the better band. Leave it at that.
Billy seems like the kinda dude who is a drag to be around. Who does he not hate?
Ax was the name of the group the song they had was called rock and roll party in the streets and it was kick a**
with only 12 keys and most songs in 4/4 what a surprise some of them sound similar!
I love the Smashing Pumpkins mostly because of Jimmy Chamberlin. But Billy lives in this sort of bubble that he thinks the worlds revolves around him and his band, and he thinks people still gives a flying crap about his many feuds.
at the end the voice got distorted and i couldnt tell for sure what corgan said about the instagram question "did you make peace with collective soul"? was the answer "I always hate collective soul,now and always' or what?
The most forgotten music feud in history that no one cared about
Definitely never thought it sounds like Pumpkins.
preference aside, billy corgan is an extremely intelligent musician in all aspects of the term ive been watching them as since i was a kid on; despite being born the year gish came out; thankfully i had cool older brothers that showed me at age 4 what good music is and was.i play guitar myself for over 20 years and have had my own stories with the live performer career. collective soul i wont lie where outshined (soundgarden) by many other number one tracks popular at the time.