James White vs Tim Staples - Papal Infallibility Debate - Cross Examination (Audio)
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- Опубліковано 10 гру 2017
- This is from a debate between James White and Tim Staples which focused upon the following question: Can Papal Infallibility Stand Under the Weight of Church History?
This debate took place after their first debate on sola scriptura. This is the cross examination period from the debate. It was somewhat intense and high spirited, which I found to be quite enjoyable.
No copyright infringement intended. I share this for theological and educational purposes under the Fair Use Clause.
Wow! As always, the person I support annihilated the person I do not support.
Amen! James White is an amazing man of God!
This comment section in a nutshell.
"I'm catholic, so obviously the catholic did well" lol
Chapel The Evergreen yeah it’s madness
both are very good apologists so it's only natural
James destroys everyone he debates. Nothing different with this numpty, Timmy.
Masterclass from James White!
James White proved himself wrong. He said that the "God has led His *PEOPLE* to recognize not through the use of an infallible authority or some authority external to Scripture but through the guidance of his people in a passive way to recognize that which He inspired."
He just admitted that God inspires PEOPLE to recognize what is canon and what isn't. That "people" is the Magisterium. Then, he says that it's "not through the use of an infallible authority." So the Holy Spirit isn't infallible? Then, he says it's "not through the . . . some authority external to Scripture." Really? How is the "guidance of his people" to recognize canon in Scripture? WHERE IN SCRIPTURE IS THAT?
Listening to James White makes me more Catholic every time.
Christopher de la Viesca you mean, “ it makes you more romanist” which is so different than the ancient catholic faith. Listening to Staples dance around facts made many ex-romanist abandon that apostate church.
May God help you.
@Christopher, great observations. I missed some of them. In the end, White crumples whenever attempting to answer this question Staples put to him because there is no possible way to account for the Cannon while relying on Sola Scriptura. I love Staples, but I honestly believe White is a better debater. White's problem is that he has to defend logically unsound positions such as the Cannon can be established without an Infallible Visible Church with Authority given it by Christ.
@@Solideogloria00 Give me an example of Staples dancing around facts. Also, I'm fine being called a "Romanist." Rome is the center of God's Apostolic Church.
@Steven Irizarry It didn't. Also, God would never cause heretics like Luther to rise up in protest against the Church. Do you know what he taught? He taught that "saved Christians" can fornicate and murder 1000 times a day and not lose their salvation because Jesus' blood "covers" them somehow. That is diabolical, and you know it.
@Steven Irizarry You shouldn't care that I like my comment. 35 people liked my initial comment.
Anyway, let's get to the point. Purgatory is not heresy. It's that simple. Why don't we start with that?
Tim Staples answers questions directly. James White dodges and goes on a tangent.
This James White is quite rude and seems to think that he's a lawyer doing a cross-examination. He can't seem to accept the fact that he could be wrong.. I'll pray for him.
@biggs949597 s
You are rude!
He's completely demonized. Attacks his brothers and sisters in Christ and kisses Muslim butt. Spineless evanjellyfish.
Rude?... when they misrepresent statements and display as fact when in dialogue they are lying to win a debate! Is that truth??? Yes Pray as you can’t see with other lenses either!
Anyone who knows anything about debate knows that Tim Staples was trying to run out the time of the questioner by giving long "answers" that had nothing to do with the questions he was being asked.
I think that was far more productive than the opening statements and rebuttals since each had a chance to directly counter the other's claims, rather than try to keep up with 30 minutes of accusations in a 15 minute time span.
Dr White asked Tim Stables not to interrupt him. And yet he interrupts Tim when it was his time to question. It was hard to listen theirs was no need to raise his voice.
where is the full debate?
There was a time when I looked up to James White. The more I hear him, though, the more repulsive he becomes. He is rude, condescending, and insufferably arrogant. Granted, this is not an argument against his claims. But, in him, I sense zero fruits of the Spirit, and I believe that this speaks volumes.
Tim Staples knows his stuff...and he is so smooth!
Rosie Girl are you serious? Tim danced a lot and did not deal with history with honesty. History is clear, there’s no such thing as papal infallibility.
Rosie Girl he got crushed. This is coming from someone considering converting to Rome.
I agree with you.
James White dances around and ignores the fact that his CALVINIST MADE UP RELIGION WASN'T EVEN THERE AT THE TIME OF JESUS.
IT IS AN INVENTION OF THE MIND OF CALVIN AND JAMES WHITE
@@wc8048 the canon is created by the holy spirit?
Yes and edited by the church under the power of the same holy spirit.
@@smedrano1964 The fact that you can listen to a debate like this and still think that Tim Staples won is proof positive that reformed theology is true.
White makes an error that he probably forgot about. Jews didn’t have a unified canon. Different groups held different canons. He makes it seem like the same smooth process that happened with Old happened with New.
This is why Luther and others during his time, even Catholics, questioned some of the books of the New Testament. If it was so obvious, everyone would know. Everyone didn’t. He used this as an argument that since so many questioned, say, Revelation, he could too.
Yes they had. The grandson of the apocrypha author Ben Sira in the second century BC mentioned a threefold canon of the Old Testament ( Source: Roger T. Beckwith, The Old Tetsament canon of the New Testament church) The same one as the jews and protestant have. Jesus clearly shows authority to the threefold canon in Luke 24:44.
Ouch this gave me physical pain. I hope they repaired the relationship after this
Tim's questions are too long. Just get to the point already.
Filibustering to the max because he has no argument. He also then never answers any questions but appeals to the audience for safety.
James Arendse spot on
@@jamesarendse9739 you are absolutely correct
It's funny that Catholics on the comments section above believing that Tim won. He made a lot of assertion and is unfair with debate rules and unfair towards james white.
Wow, James White has a good understanding of the early church/councils but why he still remains a protestant?
Its not financially to his benefit to leave protestinism
Because history is clear my friend. There was no such thing as the papacy in early Christianity, let alone papal infallibility, purgatory, Mary doctrines, the 7 sacraments and the list goes on and on. Rome isn’t catholic at all, it has changed the truth to remain in power and control over the masses.
@@Solideogloria00 educate yourself. Their are theolgians infinetely more knowledgeable than u and i who can quite easily prove ur ignorance. Used to be non catholic . Im thankful to our Lord that he brought me into his Church
Thorvilk William's he has a blind spot, in that he can't see the inconsistency of his argument that you dont need an outside authority to determine what is scripture. I was a protestant for 35+ years and I thought exactly the same. In effect, I believed that God simply handed us the Bible from the sky and said, "This is my word. Study it and figure out what it means for yourself."
It never occurred to me that Christians existed in the years between 70AD and the 16th century when Martin Luther came along.
@@Solideogloria00 Linus, the Bishop of Rome who succeeded Peter, was known as Papa Linus. Papa became Pope in English, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Linus
JW has a large congregation and if whenever admitted he was wrong he would lose is bread and butter. Theres many protestant pastors that left their churches they are real men of God.
He has a large congregation? Lol. He’s recently become an elder at Apologia church which has a congregation of around 500 people. His church before that has much less. Stop slandering the man. Repent for your wickedness
This was painful to watch. Dr. White has the terribly annoying tendency to throw out little jabs like “many historians disagree with you” or “that’s simply not true” after his opponents make valid points but NEVER PROVIDES PROOFS! I think I had an aneurism every time he did it. So intellectually painful!
why do you call yourself by a demonic name? or was the guy real and simply loved to lap up human blood? Where did he get it from?
@@teresaadamik67 Vlad Dracul was a real person not the blood leeching character from Bram Stoker's novel, He was a king that fought the Otomans/muslims and as customary for the age commited cruel acts of war etc. that his enemies probably exaggerated.
Tim staples is amazing.. I'm searching for more videos wow
Yes, Tim is amazing ?
Amazingly dead wrong !
JW rests on a canon which is passed down to him by an authority he rejects.
Amazing at distorting history because he has no choice (he’s told what to blindly believe anything Rome wants).
If you call Filibustering to the max because he has no argument amazing then yes he is amazing. He also then never answers any questions but appeals to the audience for safety.
@@jamesarendse9739 🤣
Tim Staples you’re Awesome! May God Bless you 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
May God bless him to admit the truth, he got destroyed in the cross examination.
He's Catholic of course he's wronng
They should debate the Eucarist staples would lose
James white couldn't answer the question about how they decide what is scripture. Just ran off the topic about the holy spirit .
Every time a Catholic apologists asks James White where in the Bible it teaches either Sola Scriptura or the Canon, he starts talking about a different thing.
Protestants believe in sola scriptura but somehow there are thousands of protestant sects with different beliefs and interpretations
Now what interpretation is true
Ask the author who leads the true Church Catholic Church for 2000 years already
Catholics disagree from diocese to diocese and even the Papacy disagrees with each other. Even the Vatican in their statements disagree with the Pope now. Protestant seem to defer to Scripture and respect the ad offera (sic) where as Catholics defer to the vacillations of “infallible” Papacy.
The Jews knew what “SCRIPTURE WAS” Tim, WITHOUT the Pharisees (equivalent to Roman Catholic FALSE church) “telling them authoritatively exactly what those books were!!!”
Why can’t Catholic apologists get this?!? (Because their AUTHORITY tells them what to believe!!)
Do you adhere to Jewish doctrine.
Williamstdog9, the Jews did not know the Canon of Scripture in Jesus's day. There were many competing versions of the Canon among different sects of Jews as there still is today. Before Christ and during Jesus' days on Earth, the Sadducces only accepted the 5 books of Moses as scripture. The PHARISEES accepted the Prophets and writings as Scripture and the Essenes accepted an additional different list of Books in their Canon. To this day the Jews in Africa ( sometimes called Beta Israel) accept a different Canon than that accepted by Rabbinical Judaism. Beta Israel includes in their Canon Books James White rejects as non-Canonical such as Sirach which was quoted as scripture by Rabbis in " Rabbinical Judaism" until the closing of their Canon in the late 300's. For lack of a better term "Rabbinical Judaism" here indicates the form of Judaism which grew out of the Pharisees and has dominated post temple Judaism in Europe, the Holy Land, and the Mediterranean world since the diaspora. Beta Israel is a different school & culture of Judaism whose members are also descended from Abraham .
Jews didn't magically "know" on their own what was scripture. If a person came declaring himself a prophet, priests had to confirm the prophethood of the person. It wasn't about whether jews en masse accepted the prophethood of someone. The Jews also had a Sanhedrin of Priests, Pharisees and Sadducees to adjudicate. The Jews closed this scriptural canon not until 300AD, where they rejected the New Testament, threw out 7 books from the old.
Then you adhere to jew’s ( Pharisees) doctrine, not Jesus’s.
🤪🤣
White sounds like a condescending lawyer.....SIR. Ugh! I haven’t a clue about these ecumenical councils. But Staples sounds like the truth.
This is the saddest comment here. That's how you're going to make existential decisions, what SOUNDS like the truth?
Staples started the condescension with saying Dr. White couldn't hear.
When Mr White debates with non Catholics, he always does well. But it’s usually not his best nights when he debates Catholics.
That's because he doesn't understand the Church, because he hates the idea of being subservient to anyone.
Apologia Church, which he is a part of, are truly, smug, and elitist, and have a big chip on their shoulders.
Dr White has smoked every Catholic apologist they have put before him. He has thoroughly put them to rest and they now refuse to debate him. Lol Next!!
@@ttshiroma 😂 did you watch the same one?
Dr. White, literally, talks about anything else except the question the debate is about.
It's as if he thinks that just listing things he disagrees with the One True Church on is answering, and winning lol.
@@dmal-ty5qw This debate was about papal infallibility and Staples literally didn't even mention the word or concept in his opening statement. Dr. White has been on topic the whole time, what are you talking about?
@@dmal-ty5qw Did you listen to the same one? The only reason they send differing apologist to challenge Dr White on the same topics is to smokescreen the the catholic position that cannot adequately be proven with absolute certainty!! Sorry!
White won't admit the Catholic church chose the books in the BIble.
Sergio Morales “Catholic” in 300 ad is far from today’s RC church. Apostolic succession is based on a misunderstanding of the Build my Church on the rock event.
See Michael Heiser “Unseen Realm” Protestants are wrong too. Geographical in nature. Worth your time to research.
@@bradbrown2168 I've done plenty of research. A lot of people have their interpretation of that verse. I'll stick to the Catholic churches interpretation.
Catholic interpretations appeal to catholic authority which makes it a problem to consider the exegetical contextual meaning.
My pope says therefore i don’t need to think through my theology. Why such authority? Because of the faulty understanding of the historical text which solidifies “Apostolic Authority”. Circular argument.
Getting to the Truth should be the goal for all followers of Jesus. The Tanach and New Testament properly understood in the culture.and worldview of that time period is critical.
@@bradbrown2168 when the pope speaks in truth and morals he is infallible. When he speaks from personal opinion we are not entitled to believe him. I thought you would know that but I guess you're not as smart as you seem. Just another anti Catholic. Yawns.
Sergio Morales Sorry to bore you. I don’t understand where the idea of Papal infallibility comes from? Marion theology
Is not found in Scripture so how did it become revelation?
Sergio, i’m not looking for fight. Just don’t understand.
James White believes in James White Infallibility.
In Matthew 22, Jesus does not identify a canon or say there is to be a canon. Jesus established a church, his body.
James White is being evasive about the Canon.
The grandson of the apocrypha author Ben Sira in the second century BC mentioned a threefold canon of the Old Testament ( Source: Roger T. Beckwith, The Old Tetsament canon of the New Testament church) The same one as the jews and protestant have. Jesus clearly shows authority to the threefold canon in Luke 24:44.
Around 4:33, White presents a silly pre-fab response he uses as a go-to every time he is faced w the obvious fact that it was the aurhority of a visible Church which established the Cannon for Christians. For all the Prots who think his answer is compelling, please remember, the Jews at the time of Jesus had no consensus as to what their Cannon of sacred writtings were. For example, the Saduccees only accepted the Torah as their Cannon, while the Pharisees accepted the Prophets and other books as part of their Cannon. There was no infallible aurhority on Earth for the Jews and consequently, they had no infallible list of Sacred writings. That was God's will. The Jews also never practiced Sola Scriptura and consequently, the lack of a fixed and agreed upon Cannon was not nearly as vital for them as it is for "Bible Alone" Christians. Sola Scriptura can't work without simultaneously knowing exactly which books constitute Scripture. AND that is exactly why Sola Scriptura fails since Scripture itself does not anywhere tell us what the Cannon is. The silly unfounded go to assertion that God's people just know what the Cannon is ( which is pulled out of nowhere by White and others. White didn't invent this argument) never works. Apparently, Luther who "restored" the" true " Gospel of Sola Fide was not one of God's people since he didn't know that Hebrews, James, and Revelation were part of the Bible and tried to remove them from the Cannon just as he removed Books from the OT which he didn't like. I know many will concede Luther may not have been one of God's people despite simultaneously believing Luther was used by God to restore the true Gospel from the "corruption" of the Catholic Church. Ok, but that doesn't account for the fact that there has always been disagreement about the Cannon among Christians from the earliest Centuries. The Book of Revelation did not receive General acceptance among Christians until the 300's AD. To this day Churches in the East have a different Cannon than both Protestants and Catholics. All those folks who don''t know the infallible Cannon are/were not the people of God? Really??????? Many of those people who accepted a different Cannon and had doubts about certain controversial books like Revelation (and others) played a vital role in the development of Christian doctrine such as our understanding of the Trinity, but White would ask you to believe they weren't really Christians. You White fans buy that argument? So silly. Either come up with a better argument or just concede that a Visible Authority has to establish the Cannon. Remember what Paul wrote 1Tim3:15 the Church is the " Pillar and Foundation of the Truth." God established the Cannon by His Inspiration of a fixed number of Sacred Texts. His Church tells His People which Books are in the Cannon by the authority He gave to His Body guided by the Holy Spirit. You can try to get around that, but you never will. In the end, You will always be stuck with R C Sproul's go-to response to this existential challenge facing all promoters of the man-made doctrine of Sola Scriptura. White's go to is discussed above and is essentially a simple dodge. It ignores the question of how th Christian can know which Books are part of the Cannon when that list has been disputed at various times and is still a matter contested between Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox. When faced with the question of the Cannon, as an advocate of Sola Scriptura, Sproul' s go-to was : "We have a fallible list of Infallible Books." That is the best you can do if you accept Sola Scriptura and it doesn't work. Just try to make it work. If the list is fallible how can you be sure the texts used to build your theology really should be considered as Inspired? BTW, Catholics don't believe we merit our way into Heaven. If we have faith in Christ and live out what Paul called "the obedience of faith," God applies to us the merits Christ won for us on the Cross. It really is very similar to your understanding of the matter.
HopelessStrlstfan Great post
-confused Protestant
Hopeless.
@@Nolongeraslave yes. White and Sproul's approaches are hopeless. Thanks
@@hopelessstrlstfan181
I disagree.
@@Nolongeraslave ok. Disagree. Please show me where scripture tells us which books are inspired. R C Sproul could not do that, maybe you can. Show me how the Bible Alone tells us >>>>everything>providing
It bothers me that these are debates are contestants trying to win the debate. Instead they should be trying to inform the body of Christ.
Matthew 16:18-19
New International Version
18 And I tell you that you are Peter,and on this rock I will build my church,and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
Acts 20:28
New International Version
28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God,which he bought with his own blood.
1 Timothy 3:15
New International Version
15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
Galatians 1:6-9
New International Version
No Other Gospel
6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!
Matthew 7:22-23
English Standard Version
22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness
False profets
False teachers
Matthew 7:15
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Matthew 24:24
For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
2 Peter 2:1
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.
1 John 4:1-6
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them. ...
2 Corinthians 11:13-15
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.
Matthew 24:11
And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray.
Deuteronomy 18:20-22
But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’- when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.
2 Timothy 4:3
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,
Jeremiah 23:16
Thus says the Lord of hosts: “Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you, filling you with vain hopes. They speak visions of their own minds, not from the mouth of the Lord.
Deuteronomy 18:20
But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’
Revelation 19:20
And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.
Romans 16:18
For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.
Luke 6:26
“Woe to you, when all people speak well of you, for so their fathers did to the false prophets.
Jeremiah 14:14
And the Lord said to me: “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I did not send them, nor did I command them or speak to them. They are prophesying to you a lying vision, worthless divination, and the deceit of their own minds.
Mark 13:22
For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect.
Revelation 20:10
And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
2 Peter 2:3
And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.
Mark 7:6-9
And he said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, “‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ You leave the commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men.” And he said to them, “You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to establish your tradition!
James White clearly doesn’t know church history.
The important thing to know is that the RC church teaches counterfeit Christianity and that God is not in it.
@@teresaadamik67 lol
It very obviously went over your head!!
He knows the word of God and scripture. Who cares about church history
Staples quotes 18:15 as if there was a church in Rome. It is the local assembly Christ is describing.
I hope that there are more debates with JW soon, because the number conversions to the Catholic Church increases.
I agree that he’s needed. I know multiple people who have come out of Roman Catholicism because of his debates/books
@@haroldbailey9011 because of James White?🤣
not only towards catholicism but orthodoxy as well... very optimistic if u think JW can stop the drain 😀
@@mjramirez6008 what’s so funny about that? I’m from New York. A place where an insane amount of Irish and Italian Catholics who know the Hail Mary and cant tell you one bible verse. Which included myself. I know multiple people in New York who have come out of Roman Catholicism from RC Sproul or James Whites book “The Roman Catholic Controversy”
@@haroldbailey9011 ok scooter, peace, have a great day.
I like white in a lot of cases he does tremendous work of debunking the claims of Islam, but in this cas he keeps deflecting every question.
the theology spot Thats what you want to think. It was the other way around.
R. Joël Tim staples was answering yes or no for almost every question. I couldn’t answer one.
James White is the Tobias Fünke of theology
Tell me is it a protestant belief that Mary and the Saints are dead so we shouldnt seek their advice, intercession or inspiration?
it is? if yes, then they are in plain contradiction of Mark 12:27
@@mjramirez6008 They are dead, and the verse correctly tells you not to look up to them, for a dead lion is better than a live dog. The dead partake not in the ways of the living. The dead in Christ will rise first upon his return...or you magically forgot those verses.
If you believe that mary and your saints are in heaven, then you mean that when Christ returns, they will come down with Him, get in their graves, in their dead bodies, wake up first and rise to meet Christ again? How Absurd!!!
@@wesleysimelane3423 ''But concerning the dead rising, have you not read about the burning bush in the Book of Moses, how God told him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!''
@@wesleysimelane3423 Wesley: Christ is in Heaven with His resurrected glorified body, all ancient historical Catholic churches (orthodox, coptic, church of the east and roman catholics) believe The Blessed Mother of our Lord was bodily taken up to heaven, the rest of dead in Christ are taken up *as souls* into Heaven (Revelation 7.9), on the last day they will be joined with their resurrected bodies to live forever with God on The New Earth/New Jerusalem.
James White from the start begs the question regarding the canon of scripture. He presumes without evidence a fixed OT canon at the time of Jesus. The OT books are not fully accounted by the statements of Christ, and the Apostles. So, his initial argument for a certainty of the canon is post hoc ergo proctor hoc. But White talks so fast, most people aren't going to notice.
I have a question:
Its true White does seem to beg the question by conflating "HOW do we know?" with the question "WHY are they so"..meaning canon.
My question is on what basis did the primitive church use liturgically, as well as for edification the books we now call NT canon?
@@thuscomeguerriero Well, there's few of things in play. (1) Disciples / Apostles appointed by the Lord, filled with the Holy Spirit, and commanded to go preach / teach.
(2) Others that Jesus also sent out with power and authority to preach / teach (any remaining from the 70, etc.). (3) Any prophets in the church. (4) Any called as Apostles, like Paul.
All could be sources of inspired writing. We also know for certain that there were prophets and prophecies given in the early church (in 1 Cor., in the calling of Paul and Barnabas, etc.).
So, there were plenty of human resources for inspired writings. But the number of those who could write was probably quite limited. So, selection of works recognized as divinely inspired would have been limited; and probably made more limited by Roman destruction of Christian writings.
I don't have more time to spend on this. But it gives a rough picture of what would have gone on prior to counsels that officially recognized sacred literature with which the Church grew up.
Is this guy ignores questions purposely or he doesn't get it
Mr White you are Bishop A, Mr Staples is Bishop B, you two don't agree on some scriptures, who we gonna listen if you're both inspired by CHRIST and Holy SPIRIT according to your statements, it simple
Obviously he promotes "protestantism" and "SPIRITUAL ANARCHY"
Very different the way the letters to the different churches ..like in.corinth. galatia . Philipi . Rome. Etc etc . That how the new testament was spread 😅😅
Staples does not debate the question and answer format in good faith.
Bad look my friend
Staples was eviscerated in White's question and answer session
Because white goes by feelings ? LoL.
No wonder there is 30,000 Protestant churches
a matter of habit for you half christians, just like your protestant services, all form little content
@@lazlogadari1537
You know it's true.. eviscerated
@@thuscomeguerriero I know the one true church is true
@@thuscomeguerriero 😀 k man, whatever, have a nice day
When you know too much but lacking in God's grace,you will not see the light🙏Prayers for you James white🙏
But the truth is in scripture, which he abides by, not the extra lies in form of traditions which have zero proof. "Prayers for you Maria"
James is so rude, behave like a scare creature.
looks alike also
You've GOT to be kidding. Staples from the beginning was condescending and breaking all the rules. "I don't think you're seeing things", "perhaps you didn't hear". James had unbelievable patience with this guy. The cross examination is not a rebuttal period, he should not have started the session responding but should have put that in his closing statement. Talking for a full minute and expecting someone to respond to your rambling with a question at the end is ridiculousness.
This debate is too much for brain. I'm just a mediocre and a simpleton. I'd better rely on my Mother Church-Catholic Church. I will listen, learn and read the Bible according to what my Catholic priests say. I don't want to interpret on my own
Biblical argument for the canon of Scripture Hebrews 12:1“Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience: the race that is set before us,” Jude 1:3“Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.” Notice" so many witnesses e.g., Aramaic, Greek, Coptic, Latin, and other churches in the majority have received 27 books once delivered, so the 27-book canon agrees with Scripture. Paul, say we received the oracles of God from the Jews, so the Protestant OT books agree with Scripture. The mayor of Vatican City not so much. And the Lord said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them. Exodus 24:12
Holy crap. Tim staples, is not dealing with this issue honestly at all. Very disappointing.
Funny how humans perceive things. This debate brought me home to the Church..
I'm curious, did the systematic rape of tens of thousands of children by priests, covered up by the authorities of the Church over centuries, do anything at all to bring you away from the Church?
@@thanksforbeingausefulidiot9016 The actions of these demonically minded so called 'priests"is not the teachings of the church . I would never give these twisted minded individuals hiding behind that collar the power or authority to pull me out of this 2022 year old faith.. Just like weak Catholics who leave the Church along with those offenders, my Church has become stronger. As they say 'bad or weak Catholics become protestant..and strong faith minded protestants become Catholic!!
@@keithsmith3386 Are the Vatican and Pope demonically minded as well? Do you want me to show you proof of their cover ups, threats against victims, actions to hide priests, etc? Where did Cardinal Law get transferred (by the Pope) to escape criminal prosecution? He was AWARDED a plum position in Rome, that's where.
@@thanksforbeingausefulidiot9016 Show me any Church without sinners.
@@keithsmith3386 I can't, because they are all frauds. And that's also why you will never catch me saying I was "brought home" to any of them.
My feelings hurt.
Staples is a legend! A wonderful, intellectual Catholic with true faith.
Yeah, and he was totally destroyed in the cross examination.
@@Nolongeraslave
All these Catholics see a win when they have clearly lost!…😂😂
White’s strategy is to ask Yes or No “gotcha” questions and shut his opponent up with “thank you, thank you, you’ve answered that sir”, before moving on to the next rapid-fire gotcha question. Staples was too polite to tell White to shut up and let him answer fully.
White is brilliant. Wow. Praise God this man
the guy's smart, may God take him out of Half-Christianity
This debate is more like Catholic vs Orthodox. James, you sound like an Eastern Orthodox Christian.
He is Reformed Baptist.
Oh, no he doesn't (sound like he's E.O.). Just listen to more of him, and you'll see otherwise.
James White is hilariously incredible and without evidence. He is playing with words without substance.
A+ for quibbling.
I wonder why people need "bible", the holy scripture, in the perspective of John White. Jesus came, jesus completed his plan, we're saved and we doesn't have a role in this salvation. Jesus ascended. Duh. That's the final of the story. Why we're talking about faith at all if we don't have a part in it. Why we see James White in discussions and debates so much? What is this effort for? Will it chance the amount of people who will be saved? Will it protect a sheep from sin? Why people need to hear god's words if they're already saved in the begining of time?
It's foolish to either defend and/or attack the actions of mere humans centuries ago. Inspired by the holy spirit or not.
No idea who won this debate but the guy Tim Staples sucks at asking questions. If you can only ask 2 questions in 12 minutes then you don’t know how to ask questions.
This debate was pretty pointless. Either the guy was anathematized because he taught heresy on the church or because he was negligent. I don’t really know what the difference is but imagine Jesus saying something totally false and is Christians dancing around it saying that Jesus was simply negligent as God he wasn’t outright wrong. I would’ve simply asked Tim staples…
if you are infallible how then can you be negligent?
Are Catholics and non Catholics supposed to accept infallible negligence? How is that even possible? Seems like a terrible idea.
5:07
I can't believe there was a small applause for this line. Seems pretty obvious that the teachings of Moses and the prophets passed down into the synagogues would be the authority Mr White is ignoring here for some reason.
James white just don't accept that he ia the authority of his own intepretation of the bible.
I think Mr. White was frustrated at times, and that is not of a good spirit.
James White - the snake in the grass. Staples did a commendable job putting the snake back in its box
You gotta love Tim running away from the topic. The debate is on Papal Infallibility, and he wants to talk about canon. This debate was so embarrassing for him. I recommend everyone listen to the entire debate.
The Pope has the final word on the canon. Without a central organ of infallibility there can be no certainty but only popular opinion.
Did you really watch it
@@alexchristopher221interesting-how did you come to that conclusion?
@@TomPlantagenet Protestantism is multi-denominational because of the principle of private judgement and popular opinion. Historically, the Roman Pontiff has had the final word in the ecumenical councils starting in the first millennium.
@@alexchristopher221 so then how do we know that the pope is infallible?
How can James say that his canon is the same as Jesus' canon when it was not all written yet?
Evidence that the RCC is not of Jesus Christ and that God is not in it. the canon is man made and the papal religion is for blaspheming not following Christ.
I feel sorry for Tim Staples. He is still trying to figure it out.
Your comment makes perfect sense. The RCC has a low view of scripture.
Tim Whalen
He is no match to Dr. White. The problem I find in these debates is that the Catholic Apologists approach them with the belief that they are the only one with Church history and that the history they choose to hold on is the whole history and nobody else should know that history, let alone examine it in full. Secondly, they approach these debates with the conviction that they cannot be wrong, nothing much can be achieved with such attitude.
Well pal, Jesus did tell the apostles "He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects Me." So clearly we should be listening to someone or some party. Jesus also said he would send the advocate, the Holy Spirit, to guide the apostles and remind them of everything he taught them. So...one of the perspectives being defended here contains all of the truth. I'm not saying Dr. White doesn't have elements of truth he is defending, I believe he does. However, Tim Staples is defending the truth that Jesus transmitted to the apostles, which is protected by the promise that the Holy Spirit would guide them into ALL of the truth. Also, there is nothing wrong with having a conviction that what you stand for is without error. For example, it would be a shame to have a defense attorney of a truly innocent defendant to take an attitude of "I don't know...we might be wrong, I'm just going to coast through this case but chances are the plaintiff is right." No way, that would be absurd! It's naive to ridicule these men for having an intellectual debate and to say that conviction is no good. Conviction is at the heart of debating and of Christianity.
Which debate you listened to?
Tim Whalen that’s why they put the Canon together huh
Revelations 17:1-6 Rv 17:1 And one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and spoke with me, saying, Come here; I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits upon the many waters,
Rv 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and those who dwell on the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
Rv 17:3 And he carried me away in spirit into a wilderness; and I saw a woman sitting upon a scarlet beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
Rv 17:4 And the woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and gilded with gold and precious stone and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the unclean things of her fornication.
Rv 17:5 And on her forehead there was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF THE HARLOTS AND THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
Rv 17:6 And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. And I marveled with great marvel when I saw her.
ahhh! The unholy roman catholic church.....COME OUT OF HER MY CHILDREN, BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE
It's interesting to me that Catholics can point to HISTORICAL FACTS, and still get told they are wrong.
The entire debate from the Protestant side is "you're not my mom, I don't have to listen to you."
I don't know if that is fair and if your not my mom I don't have to listen to you. :P
Tim admits that the early church had tradition. It at one point wanted to make it official and so the canon was created. The canon was already in existence by the power of God argues James. The fact that the councils canonized scripture did nothing to effect the fact that those books were still scripture before canonization nor did the councils that dedided on the matter require an infallibility doctrine nor a single infallible person to dictate the books.
I will say James sucks as a debater.
@@blusheep2 you're right, guess what was before that? The Tradition passed down by the Apostles by word of mouth. Then came Scripture. Then, one thousand five hundred years later, a group of people decided they knew what those books actually meant, and changed the Faith, making a twisted version that's incoherent, saying the group of believers that the Bible was originally made for are wrong.
Imagine, Einstein, writes all his math discoveries down, teaches a group of people. Then 1500 years later, another group comes around, and says nah, he was wrong, in fact, he was so wrong, we consider him evil. Then give an incoherent explanation, using Einsteins discoveries, that are contrary to what Einstein originally taught, but people believe these new guys, because it's easier, and makes them feel good, instead of being correct.
Amazing.
@@dmal-ty5qw If only your narrative was actually what happened.
First, in the early church their were three "churches." The church of Rome, the Antioch church, and the church in Alexandria. Not only did they had their own power centers, they have their own power centers now. Catholic, Orthodox, Coptic. Traditions passed by word of mouth previous to the writings are not recorded, by nature being "word of mouth," and so don't really add anything to the conversation and is all speculative. Both the Catholics and the Protestants and I assume the other two "aposolic" churches believe in the scriptures as the "word of God." But those churches didn't write or have any input on them. They were written by the authors ascribed to them or by their scribes. Many doctrines of the Catholic Church are also not traced back to the beginning. They came hundreds of years later and the current church tries to justify them by returning to the Bible.
Now if you remember the church in the middle ages actually kept the common folk from the Bible. Shucks they couldn't even understand the language of the mass. Luther could read the scripture though and he simply saw that the church had strayed from it. It had become an organism of its own making over the years. I'm sure it started out pure but is no longer.
Look, I'm not stupid and neither are you. Both of us can read the Bible for ourselves. We can study the Greek and the Hebrew and we can decide for ourselves. The only way to justify that the present Pope is somehow better situated than an equally intelligent and educated Protestant is by claiming an authority for the Pope that I don't think he has and nor do the other two Apostolic Churches.
So I think your analysis is poor. The current CC is no more "the group of believers that the Bible was originally made for..." then any other church. We all are separated from the authors by 2000 years.
On that subject, Paul in the scriptures says directly to reject those who begin to preach a different gospel even if its Paul himself. Therefore we are told in scripture to test teachings according to them and if they are wanting then reject them. That is the current Catholic Church. It has added to the Bible (something that Jesus went after constantly with the Pharisees) and claimed its authority to do so is absolute. B.S. Its a great power structure that they've set up but it ain't true. There is nothing incoherent in what I say.
Now for your comparison to Einstein, its a bad comparison. With Einstein you are talking about known and empirical facts or theories. Its not the same thing as teaching passed down over a 1000 years that contain contexts far removed from ours.
The easier route is to submit to the church and not be required to think for themselves and figure things out, but again that is what the scripture tells us to do, "work out your salvation in fear and trembling." You really confuse the original teachings with the teachings of the modern Catholics. They AREN'T the same thing. I don't say this flippantly. This has come from hard study. I have nothing against the Catholic Church other then where it has departed from scripture.
It comes back to this. Answer this question... What comes first... Scripture or the Catholic church?
@@blusheep2 oh this old chestnut.
These are all old tired arguments, that just don't prove true under scrutiny unfortunately.
I would suggest, actually researching the Catholic evidence, and read the Church Fathers, with an open mind, asking the Lord to help too.
Hope, you do and discover the inaccuracies, assumptions, and flat out lies friend. This isn't my narrative, I profess nothing new.
It's amazing, the things people believe about the Church.
Doubly amazing what's actually true about it :)
2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
What authority? Dr White is exactly right because Jesus said
John 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
The apostles did not say all scripture is given by inspiration of a Pope. When Jesus was talking to the devil he used scripture so that same scripture is what we have today. It is inspired by the authority of the one who gave it and that is God
@Joseph Salanga yeah the truth has that effect
''All the apostles did not say all scripture is given by inspiration of a Pope'' you mean 'not all the apostles say that'?, then there are a few (or one) that did? plz whom?
@@mjramirez6008 I think you misunderstood what I said all scripture is given by inspiration of God all the apostles not just some. The Pope is wrong Catholicism is wrong
@@SteveWV i just wanted to know which apostle said that ''scripture is given by inspiration of the Pope'', where do you get that from
@@mjramirez6008 I didn't say that.
Poor Tim Staples!!
This poor tim staples is making James tooooooooo poorrrr....
yeah poor guy having to stand gracelessly heavy JW... but no one forced him, his choice only
@@mjramirez6008 😁👍
I thought Tim knocked all of Jame's questions out of the park. Using some random "Catholic" professor as an authority on Church teaching, rather than the formal teaching of the Church itself, is a really weird and weak argument, I was honestly surprised to see James go that route.
Dr. White answers everything else except the Question... Just covers it up by raising his voice 😂😂.... Sola scriptura can never explain cannonization
I used to totally buy everything he said, but I’ve come to realize he just says things so confidently that you assume he’s right.
*=For two people to hold a kind of trail about the acts & believes of thousands of people over centuries of years, as if one side is right and the other wrong is complete madness,
@@TheFluteNewb Because he is!
The rude arrogant smugness of James White oozes through the screen & speaker, man oh man its people like him that help me all the more in my coming home to the fullness of the faith in the holy apostolic catholic church
White mops the floor with Mr. Staples... my goodness... That was painful to hear.... I used to have some respect for Mr. Staples but after hearing this and the purgatory debate on AOMIN. Org I can't but feel for him. Why is it that now in 2019 he won't debate Dr. White? Not a good time for this romanists apologists.
But the drain out of half christianity continues, slowly but surely
Wow, JW seems a little unsettled.
Because Tim Staples was acting like an unprofessional jerk the entire time, breaking all of the rules. Using cross examination for rebuttals, talking more than asking questions, being condescending. He showed tremendous restraint.
Dang. Burned lol
Tim Stamples got his himself embarassed by James White.
Tim in his zealous effort to defend the the doctrine position of Papal infallibility shows the world the hypocrisy of such a position.
Mr Staples is no where near the level of Dr White. Its painfully obvious he is completely on the defense and has to double down on deflections as Dr white is too on the mark at every level.i must say hes very good on the show/radio when no opposition is present.
Man, Tim is nasty here. He's also really bad at this, seriously. He's trying to talk more than the person he's supposed to be questioning.
1. Cross examination is cross examination not an extra round of rebuttal. If he wanted to respond to the Dr. White's rebuttal period, it should have been in his closing statements.
2. He is extremely rude and condescending with the "perhaps you didn't hear..." Glad James spoke up on that. "I don't think you're seeing things"
3. He takes forever to get to the question and is doing more talking than questioning.
James strategy is to ask a question on top on another without letting Staples completing his answer. Good thing Staples was concentrated on his answers... 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Staples never answered any questions but appeals to the audience for safety.
James Arendse a lot of things in this world don’t make sense. We can add your sentence to the list.
James white is the best!
Irene-of-meteora very strange comment considering (based on your icon of St. Anthony the Great) you’re either Catholic or Orthodox
Severus of Antioch that’s a negative my friend. I am most certainly a baptist! For true tradition is scripture itself
Irene-of-meteora so why the avatar of St. Anthony the Great (who was certainly no baptist)?
Severus of Antioch he’s a good example of being a knowledgeable Christian . Also, if he lived today, I doubt he would want to identify as either Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox
Irene-of-meteora You could potentially make that argument, but he certainly wouldn’t identify as baptist either
Go 2 UA-cam & type in Dr. Fred Tarsitano, the origin of the roman catholic church listen 2 the entire series. Also www.gotquestions.org
Victory to Staples.
How, he lost this debate completely ?
What is lacking with James White is God's grace🙏,Scott Hahn,Tim Staples,Trent Horn,Jimmy Akin,Steven Ray,keith Nesler and a lot more..Follow them🙏be humble and admit that you are outside the Catholic Church🙏
And the winner is...... And still undefeated" The Catholic Church!"
You know Jaime Lopez..thats such an understatement... The CATHOLIC church will NEVER be defeated..not because I or you say so..or why Catholics say so...but because GOD himself says so.
.........since Jesus is God...Jesus said..(NOT EVEN THE GATES OF HELL WILL PREVAIL AGAINST THE CHURCH)..
JUST LOOK AT HISTORY.. START TODAY AND WORK YOUR WAY BACKWARDS... You will see the Catholic church has always been there. . it is visible... Now.. Go back to recent years.. You will see..mormons just getting started... Go back a hundred years... Mormons is not there.. Baptist just getting started.. You go back ton14th century... Lutheran was just getting started..
Go back a thousand years...you wont find Lutheran... In fact...if you go back all the way to CHRIST..you will see the CATHOLIC Church is thier.. So..the way I approach things..is to always take it back to God..and his commands..
@@alexandertorro The RC church is where Jesus Christ is blasphemed at every mass, God the Father and the Holy Spirit are blasphemed by the institution giving a throne above God to its so called "Mary" whose numerous titles also blaspheme every person of the Holy Trinity. The role of the RC church since it chose to be cursed by God has been to blaspheme God and to murder anyone who followed Christ as long as the papacy had the political power to do so. Jesus Christ is neither evil nor insane and would never have built an evil blaspheming institution. He built his church on himself of which HE is the head and the body are the believers who worship God in Spirit and in truth.
@@teresaadamik67 Jesus Christ is worshipped at every Mass. As Catholics, we believe Jesus is God and we worship Him as God at every Mass.
@@teresaadamik67 I will pray for you that God will open your eyes.
@@teresaadamik67 God bless you :-)
Not just the pope, but also the magisterium is infallible when teaching definitively to the universal church on matters of faith and morals. That's the way Christ set it up. They have charism of binding and loosening and since God cannot bind error, what is taught must be infallible. Without it, you end with a potpourri of truth and error as demonstrated in the many fractals of Protestantism.
Every pope was/is an antiChrist, pope Caiaphas and the magisterium is the replica of the sanhedrin. If Jesus Christ came back today and preached his own gospel, he would be excommunicated and cursed by the pope as a heretic. If he had returned as RC several hundred years ago and preached his gospel message, he would have been seized by the papal inquisition gestapo, charged with heresy, tortured until his screams of agony satisfied the pope, then tied to a stake and burned alive. Jesus Christ is neither evil nor insane and he did not built his church on anyone but himself, the body of his church being his true followers, he being their Head.
@@teresaadamik67 "he did not built his church on anyone but himself" Except, Christ said he would, and he did, build his church on St. Peter. What I do know is that whomever you consider your "pastor" has no apostolic authority from Christ whatsoever. Look at Protestantism. Without the leader that Christ appointed it has devolved into thousands of fractals all in dire contradiction with each other over the essentials. You are part of but one fractal. And without the Catholic Church, you wouldn't even have the Bible you claim is your highest authority. And that teaching, Sola Scriptura, isn't even Biblical. Now THAT's something you should think about.
@Galatians 3:29 bob Yes
@Galatians 3:29 bob Why should I believe your interpretation of scripture?
@Galatians 3:29 bob Except Protestants don't agree on much of the Bible. Is the Holy Spirit giving conflicting interpretations among you Protestants?
Tim embarrassed himself in this debate. Listen to whole debate, I bet Tim’s face was red the whole time. Great job, Mr. White. God bless!
I see you read
Philosopher's Bench Only on Wednesday’s.
@@Davian_James Mr white was just dancing round the questions
Philosopher's Bench I guess I could see why. Tim would ramble on for like 3 mins, and not really ask a question. I guess we could call Tim “Stutters” Staples.
@@Davian_James it Mr white who sounds so desperate as if he his gonna lose and then fails to accept defeat
James white took a beating out on this guy. The catholic church continually debates through the premise that authority must be continually present in sinful people. They cannot accept the fact that while the catholic church has had doctrinal authority in early church for basic precepts, they were never meant to hold that authority eternally. The proof of that is clearly seen in the immaculate conception and the horrible teaching it gives.
I'll finish with this. Just because basic doctrine has been established by a church in no ways allows them to continually press forward with damaging doctrine
Crazy how such an experienced debater like White can engage in circular reasoning so casually. “We know it’s the Word of God because it’s the Word of God and that’s what we’re held accountable to.”
he was rigth when he said to Mr Staples you want an authority above what god says to say what god says...an authority above (so saith the lord)😢
And he was right about what jesus said in Matthew 22 holding people accountable without having any infalibly authority above what God says.
Sorry my bad english, but this are the points that persuaive me tho.

@candyjay4121 it’s not an authority above what God says, it’s authority to recognize what God says. Without it, you would have no Bible. Unless you think the apostles having authority to write down the Word of God is standing above Gods authority
@@Mr.Anglo1095 how did the early church recognize since the Bible was formed many ears ago?
@candyjay4121 the Bible didn’t just fall from the sky, recognizing which books were in and out was a process and made official in the councils of Carthage and Rome in the 4th century. Without an authoritative church you could just do what Luther wanted to do and throw James and 2Peter out by private opinion. What authority could stop you? The Bible doesn’t have a table of context. And unless you’re a Mormon that bases it’s books validity off of subjective spiritual feelings, you need an authoritative Church.
@@Mr.Anglo1095you know a vast majority of the fathers declared the scriptures self-authenticating?
James gets smashed as always lol
James white is a bit of a jerk ngl
Tim Staples got destroyed
Not even close
@@bambbambboyguy123 His opening statement wasn't even on topic.
Church Fathers is a oxymoron 😅😅😅 . Let me put it easy . I was Born in 1971 . My father in 1944 😅😅
Pope pius the IX 1846-1878 declared papal infallibility. Only God is infallible, omnipotent, omniscient & omnipresent. No man is infallible.
Ha
But the Holy Spirit is infallible and Christ promised his apostles that He would send the Holy Spirit to enlighten them. As a christian, I believe Him.
Tim Staples just got spanked!
by his mumma when he was 3 years old, then by the Catholic priest that took him out of half Crhistianity
@@mjramirez6008 😂😂😂👍👍👍
James white is so rude🙏
The winner of the debute was the Catholic church
James white was wrong