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If you kept up with TrueNAS development, Scale has overall better or the same performance as core now. Core is also being deprecated soon so any new systems users should always be installing scale and not going with core .
I've been running linux and truenas based servers for a few years now and a few things come to mind after watching this video. - first up, I'm really not a big fan of the case you chose. the fractal design case is a much better choice for holding all those hard drives, and you could have just bought a new motherboard, cpu, and memory and it would have fit just fine in that case, also I think that it's probably got much better airflow and allows for standard atx power supply (way less expensive and usually more efficient), and full size pci cards (which is great if you wanted to later upgrade to using an external SAS JBOD for data expansion a few years down the line, or if you found you wanted to use a gpu for virutalization, ai, or transcoding stuff. and it doesn't really matter how large the system is because you can place it in some out of the way corner (so long as it has decent enough airflow), and you don't have to look at it.. behind furnature, on a shelf in the basement, off in a corner somewhere, and it's fine. I don't like sata adapters period (most of them have really flaky chipsets that can lead to data errors. if you need more ports than the motherboard will allow, I STRONGLY recommend dropping in a SAS 3 HBA (which you can usually find used for about the same cost as a pcie sata controller but WAY more reliable and gives you more options re: using an external jbod if you choose to do so later). with a sas3 hba you can then use some cheap reverse breakout cables to put 4 sata drives per sas port. using a non-enterprise disk as a cache drive is a mistake. you will QUICKLY eat through your write endurance on that drive like nobody's business. even a used enterprise sata ssd (for not a lot of money especially if you buy used) will typicallly offer more iops and like 4x the endurance. as far as caching and data access speeds are concerned, however, zfs REALLY wants to do caching with ram, not really with ssd. I (and most others i've read) recommend maxing out the system's ram before you even think about installing an ssd cache. if you fit that machine with 64 or 128gb of ram, it will be dramatically faster for average data access due to the way that zfs does memory caching. the usual rule of thumb given by many is usually 1gb of ram per tb of storage space (I usually like to go a bit bigger for that estimate with 1.25gb of ram per tb so that you have a little more cache. for an actual nas like this, though, where you're doing raidz or raidz2 with a bunch of disks, it's usually best to just max it out, especially now that DDR4 UDIMMS are SUPER cheap. finally, while I applaud your wish to learn more about the software side of server hosting with things like plex and steam caching, etc. I would encourage caution right now with the truenas scale platform. they are on the cusp of changing their ENTIRE application hosting stack from using a customized implementation of kubernettes to ripping all that out and switching to a cusomized implementation of docker. it's extremely likely that you're going to have to reinstall all of your applications from scratch and reconfigure them when that happens, and the change is reportedly happening within the next month or two. I have no idea what the new UI for app management is going to look, or what issues there might be porting applications from one system to the other, but it's very likely that some manual reconfiguration of your applications will be needed at the very least. I'm not looking forward to that as I personally run transmission-daemon, plex, restreamer, and chia on my truenas scale setup. best of luck!
I wouldn't mess up storage tasks and utilities. Nobody prevents us from building a dedicated server for all of this. In a better PC case than that Fractal "coffin". Additional costs are about few hundreds for an MB, CPU, RAM, and PSU. And then you can use a water block, full size GPU, and powerful PSU for your "virtualization". And connect to an existing NAS -) I think it will be possible to replace B650+i5 with some $90 used B450+4300G (for example) if Intel set will be needed for that new server. I'm almost sure we will need to attach a monitor to that server (KVM helps), and so walk out from a dark closet where NAS lives in peace. And of course with a dedicated server we are free to chose any distro/OS, storage, memory which suit our needs better than a docker container on the NAS server.
Hey so there is a guy on Reddit who made a 3d printed front fan mount for the hard drives. It has been a game changer in cooling. I was able to fit 2 120mm p12 fans
I use old thinkpad with 4GB RAM and 8GB swap, use debian server with portainer, combine multiple hdd with mergerfs, use duplicati to backup important folder. I am quite satisfied.
To ECC or not to is an age old debate brought up almost every time. Short answer is for basic home server it's neither useless nor absolute must. It's a nice to have. I tend to prefer it, but if you're building server from consumer parts which don't support it or you just don't have any readily available, don't let it slow you down.
Fantastic video, Matt. I love watching server adjacent videos after expanding my movie and TV show collection immensely. I'm sure I'll have to dive into it sooner than later. Also, after watching that dramatic reenactment, I really think you should consider going into Hollywood. That was truly elevated.
FYI, they likely don't perform at the levels of WD Red Plus drives. While they might technically be the same model, they often end up in the external drives due to binning. Basically for whatever reason, they work but are not meeting the performance standards of WD Reds, so they can't sell them as WD Reds and package them as external drives instead. Likely won't be a noticeable problem/difference, but good to know.
60Wt of an idle usage is because of Kubernetes used by TrueNAS. In a feature branch they already test a pure docker instead, and this will dramatically reduce an idle consumption PS If you need more 2.5" SSDs (like for small quiet music storage) you can consider Sedna PCIe quad 2.5" SATA SSD controller (which is a mounting adapter at the same time). No cable or adapter are needed
Yeah, I had a R4 too, but that system got fried in Ice Storm in 2021, when we had surges go through our main breaker box. Good case. Plan to reuse it. Was even my media server.
I made an actual sound when I saw you inserting the cables into that M.2 card you can literally see it rip a connector off the board entirely - oh my GOD lmfao. finesse over force next time!
Also, love your content. Whenever I watch your channel, you encourage me to try new things. Because, yeah, I've got the Bug to mess with Home Automation too and Home Assistant. --> Yes, start making some content on Home Assitant, because it is very popular and going to be so much more searched in the future.
NIce, I literally just made a video about doing the same thing, except I used the silverstone SST-CS382. I hate asus, but they have a microboard with 4 pcie slots and 8 sata ports on it, worked perfect for me.
Would love to see switching over to proxmox with true as virtualized and a vm for self hosted applications like Jellyfin and home assistant, especially with hardware encoding using the iGPU
From some of the plugging in and unplugging he did it really seems like he has no sense of electrostatic or mechanical fragility of computer components. 49C for a hard drive is too high. I don't like to see anything over 40C. and 35C is much better. Also a 700W power supply on a system that is likely never going to use more than 200W is a waste (and runs the power supply way outside it's peak efficiency range.).
Nice build. I also plan to move my server to more modern platform. I will keep my Define R5 though - plenty of room, very nice cooling options for the drive and components. Few of my recommendations or observations if you care to read: 1. Take a look at CWWK Q670 8-bay NAS motherboard. I think it would suit your build better that a consumer board. This one has 8 native SATA ports, so no need for additional m.2 adapters or PCI-E cards or HBAs. 3*NVMe m.2 ports will allow you to add either a boot drive in mirror or a boot drive and two data drives in mirror for a fast tier of storage. 2x2.5GbE Intel based networking built in. It also supports Intel vPro on one of the network cards, so you can use Intel EMA software to remotely manage your server - similar to IPMI on true server boards (you need to have at least 1x500 CPU, so minimum i5-12500, i5-13500, i5-14500). Finally, you get full x16 gen.5 PCI-E slot for expansion. Support for DDR5 memory gives you that internal sort-of-ECC, which is still better than DDR4 with no protection at all. 2. Seeing what you plan to use your system for, I would recommend installing a virtualization software like, for example, Proxmox and then setting up a VM for TrueNAS with SATA controller passtrough, so TrueNAS has direct and native control over the drives. You can easily add docker and LXC containers for Plex/Jellyfin/Minecraft server etc. directly to Proxmox or host them on a dedicated VM if you prefer. Having your services virtualized, it will be a lot easier to move them to different machine in case of a system failure. Snapshot support will protect you from failed OS updates on VMs, where you can roll back to earlier version with few clicks. Finally, it will be much easier to jump between TrueNAS Core and Scale. As an added bonus, you could use Proxmox Backup Server as a VM to easily backup all of your VMs on an external system. Or you can build a Proxmox cluster, where you can easily migrate VMs between nodes or create High Availability setup. I know, I got carried away, but as you can see using a virtualization hypervisor gives you so much possibilities vs. bare metal install of TrueNAS. 3. Video of Scale vs. Core from Lawrence is almost 2 years old now and was comparing 22.10 version of Scale. During this 2 years Scale has seen a lot of upgrades, ZFS on Linux has matured as well. With your workload type I think there will be no problem with any performance. It also appears that iX Systems is switching gears to implementing new features in Scale for mix use (NAS and other services, like native Docker support in 24.10 and better VM host support), while leaving Core as a stable, NAS oriented system. Wall of text over, thanks for reading :)
Good choice on Scale over Core, but before you dive too deep running apps on the current version of Scale, look at the upcoming changes. They are moving from Kubernetes to Docker, so if you installed the latest stable version (24.04) you might be better off waiting until 24.10 sometime in October or November before you spend too much time on it. My understanding is that the NAS OS isn't changing a ton, just container support.
@@TechByMattB I know a lot of people do it that way, but for some odd reason I cringe at the idea of containerizing my primary NAS! If you go that route, I sincerely hope you make a video about it.
It would be interesting to see how to setup our a solution for automatic backup of smart phones. It would be nice to have a solution that would replace iCloud or Google Drive for photos and videos.
i would keep the old machine working as a backup machine or as plan b nas the sata ports, iirc there is a itx motherboard with 8 sata 3 ports that has cpu soldered, so it would help to get rid of the adapter to avoid surprises thank you for the review of that m.2 to sata adapter, it was as bad as i imagined
Yes, the ASMedia ASM1166-based M.2 adapter is quite delicate and prone to damage when plugging/unplugging SATA cables, so you should plug them in BEFORE installing the card in the M.2 slot. That works best. Another option that provides only 4 SATA ports, is an M.2 adapter with the ASM1064 chip and a horizontally-mounted SFF-8087 connector. Mechanically more robust. You just need an SFF-8087 to 4xSATA forward breakout cable to connect to the backplane or drives. I had to install a development version of the firmware (same used on the ASM1166) to get full hotplug support, but otherwise it works fine. Something I haven't tried is an M.2 5xSATA adapter with the JMicron JMB585 chipset from Silverstone. Looks like it has a sturdy aluminum heatsink that would prevent flexing when plugging cables in.
I built my first server this year. I went for a larger case though (Antex P101 silent) and second hand parts for the Mobo and CPU. Very happy so far. The only thing I would do differently next time is get a Mobo with a 2.5G NIC
Yeah, like everyone of us out there, we locked into boards with one or two gigabit NICs, and now, everything's going 2.5G. Even see MB's with 10G now too. Oh well, just more money tossed down the drain -- like all of my hardware that I used to use, tossed on a shelf down in the basement -- that I should sell on Ebay, but more likely, just give away. Ebay's a hell of lot of time and get people scamming you, too often.
damn it's that bad? my main proxmox node is running on standard non ecc ram, my full pool is only 8tb though so i'm not sure if ecc is 10000% required in my case
ecc is necesary if you doubt if your rm is good or not and if you never do memtest, for most people is not necesary, but i said most, as you mention most is not all
@@night_h4nterOnly with Intel. If you have an Intel mini PC as an application host so you don't have to have QuickSync in your NAS, you can just go AM5 with ECC and not worry about it.
I am preparing for my first storage set up my self and found this video helpful. I also am going to be using what I have on hand mostly I did have have to buy a few disk drive's for storage and going to be using proxmox and running Trunas in a vm and want to be able to run a few private game servers as well. 2nd video would be great Ty
i used ecc, it had been getting cheaper even in my country new 16gb single stick 3200 ddr4 kingston now cost around 55 usd. while still more expensive than standard, it's cheap enough in my opinion.
I might have missed it, but you don't mention which external drives you shucked (or link to it in the description)? Is it the Elements line of external drives? It appears to be.
It was my understanding that if I put my drives with data on into a new NAS build then the drives would lose the data/ be formatted? Does it depend on the OS?
Yes it depends on os, TrueNAS uses zfs which can be detected and reimported on a fresh install or even on another os that supports zfs like Ubuntu or proxmox
With regards to ECC memory, you're using a consumer Intel CPU so ECC is only supported on W680 motherboards. If you want ECC RAM on a consumer motherboard then you need to go AMD.
I'm building a NAS using a Ryzen 1600X precisely because it supports ECC. Though finding a MB that would definitely support ECC was a challenge. Lots of MB manufacturers don't actually state they support ECC, as they usually don't test it on consumer boards. Asrock seems to be better than most.
@@RandallRoman Very true. Everyone says that making a system with ECC is soooo easy. Until you find out that the $200 Supermicro board that suits your build has been sold out since the dawn of time, and that the next step up is a $630 board that'll be 3 weeks in shipping. Yeah, people usually 'cheap out on ecc' because the boards are not readily available at the time, or where they live.
I have some questions to ask i am having i3 8100,8gb ram,h310m h gigabyte motherboard,128gb ssd,2 4 tb hdd and 450w power supply so do the stock cooler is enough to run this continuous is there any problem if i run 24/7 . If i am not using server will it go stand by mode pls reply i want to make one for home
@@baronvonslambert Gotta tell you about Fractal. They are the best company ever. I bought a case, and I didn't get something included. I think it was the fan, and then the front panel did not close correctly -- because the magnets didn't fully lock or something like that. So, they sent me every single piece that I needed, rushed to me, and were very responsive and compliant with only a picture. Not that I'd cheat them, but they said they'd have problems, apologized, and got me what I needed. And, from there on, I have bought more Fractal R7's from them. They are TOP-NOTCH.
Not bad. But, for me I will like to have more drive space for around 9 to 12, 3.5 inch hard drives instead of six. The case looks a bit too small for my liking and for air flow.
The only new installation of Core I would do is if I were virtualizing it in Proxmox as I would have no use for the other features and take advantage of the better performance. Core will soon be EOL.
everyone gangster and cheap out on ECC until the raid pool is gone - its very rare, but I hope for you, that you have that Fractal Define r5 machine available for backups
Looks good other than using the crappy stock cooler. Any $20 tower cooler (like what you had in your old server) will be better and quieter. If it will fit in your new case that is.
I have some suggestions on your part choices.. 1. Use a LSI HBA in ITMode instead of sata 2. ZFS requires atleast 1GB per TB of storage of ram 3. Cache SSD - sort of meh, running a pair of sata SSD's would fair better than a nvme with low MTBF 4. Install proxmox and move truenas core to a VM (you can do this with a HBA on PCIE passthrough for all the disks) - why upgrade CPU's and not use the extra performance for other services/vm's?
ECC on a home server is so unnecessary ... 7:43 ... Or, that's my opinion. I've never had trouble with memory, unless it was when we had a power surge in Texas in 2021 after the Ice Storm.
You know the old adage: "There are two types of people in this world. Those who have lost data to a hard drive crash, and those who will." The corollary is: "There are those who lost a pool because they didn't have ECC RAM, and there are those who will." When you look at building a NAS from scratch, the main cost is in the drives, so spending a bit extra to get MB/CPU/RAM that supports ECC is a smaller percentage of the overall cost. Now, if you're doing this on a budget with spare parts, there are going to be some accomodations.
You're lucky that terrible ASMEDIA m.2 card died before you had to rely on it. I would never use one of those unless I'm building a system to goof around.
Agreed. Better to have slot-in card. I don't trust those devices, because I had one (a cheap Ebay card) and it gave me random errors. And, wasn't always recognized during boot.
i don't get the obsession with small form factors, especially for servers. you reduced airflow, room for upgrade and expansion for a slightly smaller size case that costs a ton. i understand the need to reduce power draw (and the i5 is perfect for that) but as far as i'm concerned a home server is also meant to be cheap and reuse hardware you are not using anymore
i think plex is better option compare to jelifin is better supported , works better if you want to stream outside you network , cool option will be to add a handbrake to trascode you video , you will need gpu for that ,, but not sure how it work on trunas ,
he bought external drives, then opened the cases, took the drive and disposed of the cases, as he mntioned, that way he saved hundreds of dolars, iirc he did that a couple years ago
There's 84TB's of hard drives in there, and at no point in the video did I say there was 84TB of usable space. In the thumbnail I have 84TB with an arrow pointing to 84TB of hard drives. You're obviously entitled to your opinion, I'm just having trouble understanding what's disingenuous about stating the raw capacity of the drives used in the system. If you could point out anywhere in the video I even state the total capacity of the drives or misrepresented the usable capacity, i'd be very interested to see that.
@@TechByMattB Because nobody would actually run the NAS in a way that makes all 84TB of the storage usable, period. At the very least you would have a parity disk, so it's a 70TB array in reality.
He is Venezuelan 🤦🏻♂️, i would not let anyone belittle me in any way. Could have gone about it in a different manner but english is a necessity (should be a requirement). At least he is not a gang member. Hopefully he learns from that interaction and tries to assimilate to the culture instead of Using the victim card mentality that all minorities use.
Expensive, WD and Toshiba enterprise/data centre drives are much cheaper than the equivalent SSD size. Ideally you would want u.2 drives and not regular comsumer sata SSD too.
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If you kept up with TrueNAS development, Scale has overall better or the same performance as core now. Core is also being deprecated soon so any new systems users should always be installing scale and not going with core .
I've been running linux and truenas based servers for a few years now and a few things come to mind after watching this video. - first up, I'm really not a big fan of the case you chose. the fractal design case is a much better choice for holding all those hard drives, and you could have just bought a new motherboard, cpu, and memory and it would have fit just fine in that case, also I think that it's probably got much better airflow and allows for standard atx power supply (way less expensive and usually more efficient), and full size pci cards (which is great if you wanted to later upgrade to using an external SAS JBOD for data expansion a few years down the line, or if you found you wanted to use a gpu for virutalization, ai, or transcoding stuff. and it doesn't really matter how large the system is because you can place it in some out of the way corner (so long as it has decent enough airflow), and you don't have to look at it.. behind furnature, on a shelf in the basement, off in a corner somewhere, and it's fine.
I don't like sata adapters period (most of them have really flaky chipsets that can lead to data errors. if you need more ports than the motherboard will allow, I STRONGLY recommend dropping in a SAS 3 HBA (which you can usually find used for about the same cost as a pcie sata controller but WAY more reliable and gives you more options re: using an external jbod if you choose to do so later). with a sas3 hba you can then use some cheap reverse breakout cables to put 4 sata drives per sas port.
using a non-enterprise disk as a cache drive is a mistake. you will QUICKLY eat through your write endurance on that drive like nobody's business. even a used enterprise sata ssd (for not a lot of money especially if you buy used) will typicallly offer more iops and like 4x the endurance.
as far as caching and data access speeds are concerned, however, zfs REALLY wants to do caching with ram, not really with ssd. I (and most others i've read) recommend maxing out the system's ram before you even think about installing an ssd cache. if you fit that machine with 64 or 128gb of ram, it will be dramatically faster for average data access due to the way that zfs does memory caching. the usual rule of thumb given by many is usually 1gb of ram per tb of storage space (I usually like to go a bit bigger for that estimate with 1.25gb of ram per tb so that you have a little more cache. for an actual nas like this, though, where you're doing raidz or raidz2 with a bunch of disks, it's usually best to just max it out, especially now that DDR4 UDIMMS are SUPER cheap.
finally, while I applaud your wish to learn more about the software side of server hosting with things like plex and steam caching, etc. I would encourage caution right now with the truenas scale platform. they are on the cusp of changing their ENTIRE application hosting stack from using a customized implementation of kubernettes to ripping all that out and switching to a cusomized implementation of docker. it's extremely likely that you're going to have to reinstall all of your applications from scratch and reconfigure them when that happens, and the change is reportedly happening within the next month or two. I have no idea what the new UI for app management is going to look, or what issues there might be porting applications from one system to the other, but it's very likely that some manual reconfiguration of your applications will be needed at the very least. I'm not looking forward to that as I personally run transmission-daemon, plex, restreamer, and chia on my truenas scale setup.
best of luck!
Thanks for the insight and suggesitons.
I wouldn't mess up storage tasks and utilities. Nobody prevents us from building a dedicated server for all of this. In a better PC case than that Fractal "coffin". Additional costs are about few hundreds for an MB, CPU, RAM, and PSU. And then you can use a water block, full size GPU, and powerful PSU for your "virtualization". And connect to an existing NAS -) I think it will be possible to replace B650+i5 with some $90 used B450+4300G (for example) if Intel set will be needed for that new server. I'm almost sure we will need to attach a monitor to that server (KVM helps), and so walk out from a dark closet where NAS lives in peace.
And of course with a dedicated server we are free to chose any distro/OS, storage, memory which suit our needs better than a docker container on the NAS server.
Best build nas in the world create own self😅
Hey so there is a guy on Reddit who made a 3d printed front fan mount for the hard drives. It has been a game changer in cooling. I was able to fit 2 120mm p12 fans
Nice! Thanks for the info, I'll definitely look into that.
Link ?
his name is "hsavior86" if you look him up you'll see it
@pailmonkey who is the guy, can you provide some info or a link
Yes continue this with a secondary video!
I use old thinkpad with 4GB RAM and 8GB swap, use debian server with portainer, combine multiple hdd with mergerfs, use duplicati to backup important folder.
I am quite satisfied.
To ECC or not to is an age old debate brought up almost every time. Short answer is for basic home server it's neither useless nor absolute must. It's a nice to have. I tend to prefer it, but if you're building server from consumer parts which don't support it or you just don't have any readily available, don't let it slow you down.
Fantastic video, Matt. I love watching server adjacent videos after expanding my movie and TV show collection immensely. I'm sure I'll have to dive into it sooner than later.
Also, after watching that dramatic reenactment, I really think you should consider going into Hollywood. That was truly elevated.
FYI, they likely don't perform at the levels of WD Red Plus drives. While they might technically be the same model, they often end up in the external drives due to binning. Basically for whatever reason, they work but are not meeting the performance standards of WD Reds, so they can't sell them as WD Reds and package them as external drives instead.
Likely won't be a noticeable problem/difference, but good to know.
dude you can`t imagine how much i enjoy while I`m just watching ! hopefully one day i will had one of this baby
60Wt of an idle usage is because of Kubernetes used by TrueNAS. In a feature branch they already test a pure docker instead, and this will dramatically reduce an idle consumption
PS If you need more 2.5" SSDs (like for small quiet music storage) you can consider Sedna PCIe quad 2.5" SATA SSD controller (which is a mounting adapter at the same time). No cable or adapter are needed
That's so expensive to mount some sata SSD's though oof.
Interested where you backed up the data of an 84TB storage pool and what your usable storage capacity is.
A follow up video would be great!
I'd be especially interested in the HomeAssistant stuff ^^
Can't beat a fractal design R4. Great case and still using mine for my server since 2014
I have a Fractal Define 7-XL not changing it.
I use a Define R5 and still plan to use it going forward.
Yes, Fractal is world-class cases. I have a few R7's, I think. Maybe, an R6 also. But, I love those cases with a freaking passion.
Yeah, I had a R4 too, but that system got fried in Ice Storm in 2021, when we had surges go through our main breaker box. Good case. Plan to reuse it. Was even my media server.
Nanoxia Deep Silence 5 and 6 are even better than Define R4 and XL. 11x 3.5" HDDs? No problem.
I made an actual sound when I saw you inserting the cables into that M.2 card you can literally see it rip a connector off the board entirely - oh my GOD lmfao. finesse over force next time!
Oh my god that was hard to watch
Yes, I noticed that too. I was sure hoping that it didn't send extra current fry something in the IC's in the drive controllers.
UA-camrs man. What can I say.
Timestamp?
Thought op overreacted till I saw that myself and quietly squeeled too, lmao
Timestamp: 13:44
Also, love your content. Whenever I watch your channel, you encourage me to try new things. Because, yeah, I've got the Bug to mess with Home Automation too and Home Assistant.
--> Yes, start making some content on Home Assitant, because it is very popular and going to be so much more searched in the future.
NIce, I literally just made a video about doing the same thing, except I used the silverstone SST-CS382. I hate asus, but they have a microboard with 4 pcie slots and 8 sata ports on it, worked perfect for me.
Would love to see switching over to proxmox with true as virtualized and a vm for self hosted applications like Jellyfin and home assistant, especially with hardware encoding using the iGPU
Yes, that would be a great video to watch and learn from. I want to get into virtualizing my PC's where I can reduce to fewer computers.
@@PoeLemic would recommend TechnoTim, RaidOwl, Lawrence Systems, Hardware Haven, as channels with good content on this already
This is what I did recently to a MS-01 and a 847 Supermicro Disk shelf. Proxmox and a trunas scale VM with the hba passed through.
I’d love to see you tinker with the additional things! Love your content KEEP IT UP!
Last case was so good though. Should've stuck with that. I recently bought a case like that for my NAS but does not have as many drive trays as yours.
13:50 - "PCB was bending a lot" no sh*t sherlock, it delaminated :v
From some of the plugging in and unplugging he did it really seems like he has no sense of electrostatic or mechanical fragility of computer components. 49C for a hard drive is too high. I don't like to see anything over 40C. and 35C is much better. Also a 700W power supply on a system that is likely never going to use more than 200W is a waste (and runs the power supply way outside it's peak efficiency range.).
would love to see home automation!
Nice build. I also plan to move my server to more modern platform. I will keep my Define R5 though - plenty of room, very nice cooling options for the drive and components.
Few of my recommendations or observations if you care to read:
1. Take a look at CWWK Q670 8-bay NAS motherboard. I think it would suit your build better that a consumer board. This one has 8 native SATA ports, so no need for additional m.2 adapters or PCI-E cards or HBAs. 3*NVMe m.2 ports will allow you to add either a boot drive in mirror or a boot drive and two data drives in mirror for a fast tier of storage. 2x2.5GbE Intel based networking built in. It also supports Intel vPro on one of the network cards, so you can use Intel EMA software to remotely manage your server - similar to IPMI on true server boards (you need to have at least 1x500 CPU, so minimum i5-12500, i5-13500, i5-14500). Finally, you get full x16 gen.5 PCI-E slot for expansion. Support for DDR5 memory gives you that internal sort-of-ECC, which is still better than DDR4 with no protection at all.
2. Seeing what you plan to use your system for, I would recommend installing a virtualization software like, for example, Proxmox and then setting up a VM for TrueNAS with SATA controller passtrough, so TrueNAS has direct and native control over the drives. You can easily add docker and LXC containers for Plex/Jellyfin/Minecraft server etc. directly to Proxmox or host them on a dedicated VM if you prefer. Having your services virtualized, it will be a lot easier to move them to different machine in case of a system failure. Snapshot support will protect you from failed OS updates on VMs, where you can roll back to earlier version with few clicks. Finally, it will be much easier to jump between TrueNAS Core and Scale. As an added bonus, you could use Proxmox Backup Server as a VM to easily backup all of your VMs on an external system. Or you can build a Proxmox cluster, where you can easily migrate VMs between nodes or create High Availability setup. I know, I got carried away, but as you can see using a virtualization hypervisor gives you so much possibilities vs. bare metal install of TrueNAS.
3. Video of Scale vs. Core from Lawrence is almost 2 years old now and was comparing 22.10 version of Scale. During this 2 years Scale has seen a lot of upgrades, ZFS on Linux has matured as well. With your workload type I think there will be no problem with any performance. It also appears that iX Systems is switching gears to implementing new features in Scale for mix use (NAS and other services, like native Docker support in 24.10 and better VM host support), while leaving Core as a stable, NAS oriented system.
Wall of text over, thanks for reading :)
Thanks for the insight and suggestions.
Good choice on Scale over Core, but before you dive too deep running apps on the current version of Scale, look at the upcoming changes. They are moving from Kubernetes to Docker, so if you installed the latest stable version (24.04) you might be better off waiting until 24.10 sometime in October or November before you spend too much time on it. My understanding is that the NAS OS isn't changing a ton, just container support.
Thanks for the insight. A few other people have said this, so I'm either going to wait or I might just switch to proxmox with truenas running in a VM.
@@TechByMattB I know a lot of people do it that way, but for some odd reason I cringe at the idea of containerizing my primary NAS! If you go that route, I sincerely hope you make a video about it.
I think the older case has better airflow, but maybe I am wrong. I have never tried JonsBo cases.
It would be interesting to see how to setup our a solution for automatic backup of smart phones. It would be nice to have a solution that would replace iCloud or Google Drive for photos and videos.
Great video, I've been considering building a NAS for my Plex server. Would love to see a video about that!
While there's nothing wrong with Core... I agree, it's probably time to move to Scale.
i would keep the old machine working as a backup machine or as plan b nas
the sata ports, iirc there is a itx motherboard with 8 sata 3 ports that has cpu soldered, so it would help to get rid of the adapter to avoid surprises
thank you for the review of that m.2 to sata adapter, it was as bad as i imagined
or, worse than you or I could imagine ...
Yes, the ASMedia ASM1166-based M.2 adapter is quite delicate and prone to damage when plugging/unplugging SATA cables, so you should plug them in BEFORE installing the card in the M.2 slot. That works best. Another option that provides only 4 SATA ports, is an M.2 adapter with the ASM1064 chip and a horizontally-mounted SFF-8087 connector. Mechanically more robust. You just need an SFF-8087 to 4xSATA forward breakout cable to connect to the backplane or drives. I had to install a development version of the firmware (same used on the ASM1166) to get full hotplug support, but otherwise it works fine. Something I haven't tried is an M.2 5xSATA adapter with the JMicron JMB585 chipset from Silverstone. Looks like it has a sturdy aluminum heatsink that would prevent flexing when plugging cables in.
Only real NAS card like LSI is recommended.
I built my first server this year. I went for a larger case though (Antex P101 silent) and second hand parts for the Mobo and CPU. Very happy so far. The only thing I would do differently next time is get a Mobo with a 2.5G NIC
Yeah, like everyone of us out there, we locked into boards with one or two gigabit NICs, and now, everything's going 2.5G. Even see MB's with 10G now too. Oh well, just more money tossed down the drain -- like all of my hardware that I used to use, tossed on a shelf down in the basement -- that I should sell on Ebay, but more likely, just give away. Ebay's a hell of lot of time and get people scamming you, too often.
you are going to regret giving up ecc ram, ask me how i know.
Everyone thinks it's unnecessary until they find themselves restoring 84TB from backup because a memory error ate the whole raid.
damn it's that bad? my main proxmox node is running on standard non ecc ram, my full pool is only 8tb though so i'm not sure if ecc is 10000% required in my case
ecc is necesary if you doubt if your rm is good or not and if you never do memtest, for most people is not necesary, but i said most, as you mention most is not all
unfortunately, ddr4 ecc setup (as in, both the memory itself and the platform to support it) is still quite expensive nowadays, and ddr3 is ancient
@@night_h4nterOnly with Intel. If you have an Intel mini PC as an application host so you don't have to have QuickSync in your NAS, you can just go AM5 with ECC and not worry about it.
I'd love to see the dedicated video for those.
Im interested to see how the Automation is and kind of interested in the game cache.
Just a heads up the moister from the washing/drying machines was what ruin that system.
Nice one Matt!
Excellent build & video.
My case is a Fractal Design Focus G. I love it and it still has two optical drive bays.
shame that it doesnt have a tempered glass..but only plexi
fuck windowed cases. they're for idiots
This is everything I want in a server!
I am preparing for my first storage set up my self and found this video helpful. I also am going to be using what I have on hand mostly I did have have to buy a few disk drive's for storage and going to be using proxmox and running Trunas in a vm and want to be able to run a few private game servers as well. 2nd video would be great Ty
Thanks Matt, I would be interested in more follow on videos.
One word: HBA!
i used ecc, it had been getting cheaper even in my country new 16gb single stick 3200 ddr4 kingston now cost around 55 usd. while still more expensive than standard, it's cheap enough in my opinion.
you could have waited a few more days for jonbo n5
I might have missed it, but you don't mention which external drives you shucked (or link to it in the description)? Is it the Elements line of external drives? It appears to be.
Hey Matt, are you ever gonna try doing a PC build with the Fujitsu Siemens Scenic case? I'd love to see that
Sweet!
I think the HD manufacturers have caught up to us "shuckers" and they have adjusted their pricing accordingly. It was fun while it lasted though...
perfect timing hahaha, been looking forward to build my own NAS server and looking for inspiration, been looking at the n2 myself
look at the silverstone SST-CS382 also. I just made a video on it, good case with lots of room and it's micro also.
It was my understanding that if I put my drives with data on into a new NAS build then the drives would lose the data/ be formatted? Does it depend on the OS?
Yes it depends on os, TrueNAS uses zfs which can be detected and reimported on a fresh install or even on another os that supports zfs like Ubuntu or proxmox
Wow, both the Jonsbo case and the PSU are now unavailable on Amazon, slightly a month after you posted this, You sold em out? ;) Great video.
With regards to ECC memory, you're using a consumer Intel CPU so ECC is only supported on W680 motherboards. If you want ECC RAM on a consumer motherboard then you need to go AMD.
I'm building a NAS using a Ryzen 1600X precisely because it supports ECC. Though finding a MB that would definitely support ECC was a challenge. Lots of MB manufacturers don't actually state they support ECC, as they usually don't test it on consumer boards. Asrock seems to be better than most.
@@RandallRoman Very true. Everyone says that making a system with ECC is soooo easy. Until you find out that the $200 Supermicro board that suits your build has been sold out since the dawn of time, and that the next step up is a $630 board that'll be 3 weeks in shipping.
Yeah, people usually 'cheap out on ecc' because the boards are not readily available at the time, or where they live.
Whats the KB during the standing desk advert?
i want the videos where you see how to setup local phone backups
Getting a MB with enough Sata ports or an HBA, would be better. CPU is totally overkill.
I've thought about working on mine have some large shucked and external drives.
That new case is awesome. Do you use a cloud storage software also? Or just this storage server
Can you make a series of this, I would love to stay updated on NAS stuff. I'm wanting to make a NAS soon
where do you find the rubber light blue rubber mount for hard disk?
Those come with the Jonsbo case, most of their cases use the same type of HD mounting system with the rubber mounts.
I'd watch a follow up for this video
It's a shame that those 14TB are cut downs of 16TB HDDs. (more noise & higher power draw)
I have some questions to ask i am having i3 8100,8gb ram,h310m h gigabyte motherboard,128gb ssd,2 4 tb hdd and 450w power supply so do the stock cooler is enough to run this continuous is there any problem if i run 24/7 . If i am not using server will it go stand by mode pls reply i want to make one for home
5:15 that's unacceptable for a $116 case
@@baronvonslambert Gotta tell you about Fractal. They are the best company ever. I bought a case, and I didn't get something included. I think it was the fan, and then the front panel did not close correctly -- because the magnets didn't fully lock or something like that. So, they sent me every single piece that I needed, rushed to me, and were very responsive and compliant with only a picture. Not that I'd cheat them, but they said they'd have problems, apologized, and got me what I needed. And, from there on, I have bought more Fractal R7's from them. They are TOP-NOTCH.
It's so funny seeing such a big cpu have 4 cores
Hey Matt
Would have gone ecc ram on am5 (and added an intel arc)
Not bad. But, for me I will like to have more drive space for around 9 to 12, 3.5 inch hard drives instead of six. The case looks a bit too small for my liking and for air flow.
The only new installation of Core I would do is if I were virtualizing it in Proxmox as I would have no use for the other features and take advantage of the better performance. Core will soon be EOL.
everyone gangster and cheap out on ECC until the raid pool is gone - its very rare, but I hope for you, that you have that Fractal Define r5 machine available for backups
If you do Jellyfin, please make a video
Looks good other than using the crappy stock cooler. Any $20 tower cooler (like what you had in your old server) will be better and quieter. If it will fit in your new case that is.
being used as a nas cpu means it will not be fully utilized, so it is fine, perhaps for noise could be replaced if becomes intollerable
20 min video about swapping the case, good god
I have some suggestions on your part choices..
1. Use a LSI HBA in ITMode instead of sata
2. ZFS requires atleast 1GB per TB of storage of ram
3. Cache SSD - sort of meh, running a pair of sata SSD's would fair better than a nvme with low MTBF
4. Install proxmox and move truenas core to a VM (you can do this with a HBA on PCIE passthrough for all the disks) - why upgrade CPU's and not use the extra performance for other services/vm's?
You should make nas again for backup
ECC on a home server is so unnecessary ... 7:43 ... Or, that's my opinion. I've never had trouble with memory, unless it was when we had a power surge in Texas in 2021 after the Ice Storm.
You know the old adage: "There are two types of people in this world. Those who have lost data to a hard drive crash, and those who will." The corollary is: "There are those who lost a pool because they didn't have ECC RAM, and there are those who will." When you look at building a NAS from scratch, the main cost is in the drives, so spending a bit extra to get MB/CPU/RAM that supports ECC is a smaller percentage of the overall cost. Now, if you're doing this on a budget with spare parts, there are going to be some accomodations.
To all the people that claim it's doomed because non-ECC. Why do you have a ZFS filesystem ? I think ECC is not for data integrity.
You're lucky that terrible ASMEDIA m.2 card died before you had to rely on it. I would never use one of those unless I'm building a system to goof around.
Agreed. Better to have slot-in card. I don't trust those devices, because I had one (a cheap Ebay card) and it gave me random errors. And, wasn't always recognized during boot.
go with a thermalright peerless assassin or the phantom spirit. Its 30$, no brainer.
I got a Thermalright AXP120-X67 for when i buy a Jonsbo case. The N4 case they are using is way too small for a Peerless Assassin, it's not that tall.
Cool
you're not doing enterprise server with the RAM , but completely up to you if you want it, its a personal matter
Do you really need Minecraft server? What is so useful in it?
60w/h no idle, too much😢
5:20 WOW DUDE! We don't say that. We say 'African American' version.
Bro where is the final file transfer speed test at 10 G ? 😂
TBH I'd have kept the Fractal case...
You had me until TruNAS core.
Core is being deprecated if you didn’t know
All of these videos feature the same generic SATA HBAs. A proper enterprise grade one would be so much better.
13:52 - wtf m.2
This is something I want but realistically, I'll never use it🙂
Do you have a big personal archive of photos etc? Do you use cloud storage?
Show you care about your data by using ZFS. Show you don't care about your data by not using ECC RAM with ZFS.
i don't get the obsession with small form factors, especially for servers. you reduced airflow, room for upgrade and expansion for a slightly smaller size case that costs a ton.
i understand the need to reduce power draw (and the i5 is perfect for that) but as far as i'm concerned a home server is also meant to be cheap and reuse hardware you are not using anymore
i think plex is better option compare to jelifin is better supported , works better if you want to stream outside you network , cool option will be to add a handbrake to trascode you video , you will need gpu for that ,, but not sure how it work on trunas ,
you seem to have a ton of money i know i cant aford drives like that
he bought external drives, then opened the cases, took the drive and disposed of the cases, as he mntioned, that way he saved hundreds of dolars, iirc he did that a couple years ago
@@arch1107 even the external drives are expensive as heck
@@dawn1berlitz you can check the channel history where he did that, nothing is cheap if you want 84 tbs of storage
Disingenuous to say it's an 84tb system when you're using a disk as parity.
L take
@@JG-nm9zk The real L take is thinking it's actually 84tb of usable storage. Ain't nobody running a 6 disk array with no disk parity.
There's 84TB's of hard drives in there, and at no point in the video did I say there was 84TB of usable space. In the thumbnail I have 84TB with an arrow pointing to 84TB of hard drives. You're obviously entitled to your opinion, I'm just having trouble understanding what's disingenuous about stating the raw capacity of the drives used in the system. If you could point out anywhere in the video I even state the total capacity of the drives or misrepresented the usable capacity, i'd be very interested to see that.
They never state the capacity of the system. They state that they have 14tb drives and they state that they have 6 of them. F U
@@TechByMattB Because nobody would actually run the NAS in a way that makes all 84TB of the storage usable, period. At the very least you would have a parity disk, so it's a 70TB array in reality.
He is Venezuelan 🤦🏻♂️, i would not let anyone belittle me in any way. Could have gone about it in a different manner but english is a necessity (should be a requirement). At least he is not a gang member. Hopefully he learns from that interaction and tries to assimilate to the culture instead of Using the victim card mentality that all minorities use.
ALUMINIUM NOT ALUMINUM
It is 2024, at least convert Mechanical drives to all sata SSD drives.
Expensive, WD and Toshiba enterprise/data centre drives are much cheaper than the equivalent SSD size. Ideally you would want u.2 drives and not regular comsumer sata SSD too.