As you shared, it is likely an ignition timing effect…nothing to do with the energy delivered to the plug. It would be interesting to see the timing advance curve as well to see how the ECU is adjusting it.
Yeah, this is entirely a spark timing difference. the weaker coils firing 100us quicker would give the same kind of power loss. To be fair, the ECU is really good at fine tuning the timing over time and would probably adjust back up to the same power but that makes dyno testing for differences rather tricky. The stock coils have plenty of power for the stock setup.
It's only knocking because it has way too much timing advance. This motor only knocks around 4200RPM with pump gas at max power. If i put E85 in, it would likely stop knocking but it would still be making less power than it did until i took the extra timing out.
Just my theory, but the 2GR-FKS needs these more powerful ignition coils because its compression ratio is a lot higher than the 2GR-FE, which also means higher cylinder pressures, therefore harder for the spark to jump across the gap, thus needing the more powerful ignition coils so the spark plugs will always be able to fire reliably.
The previous coils would likely have been good enough but Toyota does tend to overbuild some of the specs on these motors and the spark energy seems to be one of the things they overdo. This just ends up helping all of us that want to modify these motors later and that's great! Unfortunately this gives a bit of a perception of poor aftermarket support since there's a lot less support needed to make these motors great.
I will be using these on my 2AR builds because they are stronger and somewhat more reliable coils. But i will be adjusting the timing curve to make up for the quicker firing. That said, i don't think it will add any benefit other than cutting 1/3rd of a pound from the engine.
@@89gts Best i can tell they are compatible but there was some variation between different part numbers for the firing delay of up to 100uS so if this is a perforance application i would make sure all coils are the same part number. 100uS can be up to 4 degrees of ignition timing near the redline.
I did, i try to make the best of it when i travel to the dyno. I actually have another video already shot but it may be a few days before i edit it. I've got a few other things i absolutely need to do before getting back to editing.
It's a 50/50 paint. It only looks good from 50' away or at 50mph. If you go to your local body shop they'll have a massive book of paint colors you can look through if you're looking to do a respray.
Yes, would allow more ignition advance and potentially more power, but either coil would likely provide the same power once actual ignition advance was the same,
Now that’s the kind of torque that I’m looking for! 7200ftlbs! Yeah!
A Hat Trick?
As a Canadian, i really appreciate that reference :)
@@FrankensteinMotorworks yeah, few here in South Tejas have much use for, or know that phrase!
As you shared, it is likely an ignition timing effect…nothing to do with the energy delivered to the plug. It would be interesting to see the timing advance curve as well to see how the ECU is adjusting it.
Yeah, this is entirely a spark timing difference. the weaker coils firing 100us quicker would give the same kind of power loss. To be fair, the ECU is really good at fine tuning the timing over time and would probably adjust back up to the same power but that makes dyno testing for differences rather tricky. The stock coils have plenty of power for the stock setup.
Not what I would've guessed! Thanks Marc
7000 tq!!!!! World record!!
It gives all the torque! That glitch was way too funny to not leave in there :)
It's knocking on pump gas eh?
Put in a flex fuel sensor, some bigger injectors, and run e85 to improve your timing even further?
It's only knocking because it has way too much timing advance. This motor only knocks around 4200RPM with pump gas at max power. If i put E85 in, it would likely stop knocking but it would still be making less power than it did until i took the extra timing out.
Always enjoy to see your work Marc ! Keep me posted when you plan to be in town again and i might be able to come and say hi at TCS.
Just my theory, but the 2GR-FKS needs these more powerful ignition coils because its compression ratio is a lot higher than the 2GR-FE, which also means higher cylinder pressures, therefore harder for the spark to jump across the gap, thus needing the more powerful ignition coils so the spark plugs will always be able to fire reliably.
The previous coils would likely have been good enough but Toyota does tend to overbuild some of the specs on these motors and the spark energy seems to be one of the things they overdo. This just ends up helping all of us that want to modify these motors later and that's great! Unfortunately this gives a bit of a perception of poor aftermarket support since there's a lot less support needed to make these motors great.
Very interesting. Love it!
Really curious what a ignition table tune would change with those coils
It would make the coils work just fine but would be unlikely to add any power on the factory application.
Okay but do you anticipate similar results if used on the 2ARFXE conversion? Or would the high compression and premium fuel benefit from them? 🤔
I will be using these on my 2AR builds because they are stronger and somewhat more reliable coils. But i will be adjusting the timing curve to make up for the quicker firing. That said, i don't think it will add any benefit other than cutting 1/3rd of a pound from the engine.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks are ignition coils for the 2arfe and 2grfe interchangeable? 2arfe (90919-A2005) vs 2grfe (90919-A2007)?
@@89gts Best i can tell they are compatible but there was some variation between different part numbers for the firing delay of up to 100uS so if this is a perforance application i would make sure all coils are the same part number. 100uS can be up to 4 degrees of ignition timing near the redline.
So much content lately!
Clearly you had some fun at TCS :)
thank them for us 😊
I did, i try to make the best of it when i travel to the dyno. I actually have another video already shot but it may be a few days before i edit it. I've got a few other things i absolutely need to do before getting back to editing.
Can you find out what kind of paint is on the blue one?
It's a 50/50 paint. It only looks good from 50' away or at 50mph. If you go to your local body shop they'll have a massive book of paint colors you can look through if you're looking to do a respray.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks My '91 turbo has 400/60 paint; )
Good content as always Marc!
Glad you enjoyed it
Interesting!
Yeah, certainly not what i was expecting
Needs e85.
Yes, would allow more ignition advance and potentially more power, but either coil would likely provide the same power once actual ignition advance was the same,