Go Ashley! Love the sentiment of trying to create a middle ground. When I first saw this video I was bracing myself. I guess I feel like some people that "leave" any group just jump all in to some other group think. I resonated a lot with the way you framed ideas. I love how you make room for people that don't completely agree with you, including your husband. We need more of that for sure.
Love this collaboration! Love watching Ashley's content as well as yours. As someone who left the mormon religion went more on the left side and now I am slightly leaning more conservative. It's all soo much in such a short time. I always saw the parallel between the two within the past year. It is nice to finally see someone who gets it from both angles.
It is very brave of you to broach this subject in a former mormon space! Most who leave (and/or are featured on other podcasts) go hard left and join in on what is pushed by the establishment. Love it and love your channel.
This is exactly what I was noticing as well. Which is why I tried to remain unpolitical for so long. But now I feel the need to speak more about it because I think the radical left has very dangerous ideology that people who leave religions are more venerable to fall prey to. Additionally, I was very nervous to post this video. But I know that I can't aim this channel to please the masses or else I will lose myself. I am trying to build my content around principles that can help me withstand the backlash or the accolades.
I'm so glad you're sharing this conversation! It is so important for us to learn from each other. I'm about 12 minutes in, and I wanted to push back a little about the Jordan Peterson quote. You said that he said that if we allow someone to be blameless then we rob them of all power to fix their life. I strongly disagree. My disagreeing isn't a reflection of you, Morgan (you're awesome), just of that idea itself. When I think about how my own parenting has changed over the years, I recognize that my initial style of parenting really harmed my kiddos. I can acknowledge that and own that. And I can also recognize that I was doing my best with what I had and what I knew. Nobody had taught me any better parenting skills. In fact, when I read parenting books they said I was doing everything just right, so even the resources available to me didn't help me improve my parenting. It wasn't until I had stopped believing in the church and had a complete paradigm shift that I was ready to look for and find vastly different material that finally helped me see a better alternative to what I had been doing. My old style of parenting was, in a nutshell, to assign blame and enforce consequences when my kids failed to meet expectations. I needed to hold my kids accountable for poor decisions and teach them that when they make bad choices, they deserve bad consequences. My newer approach is to start with curiosity: why did my kid not meet my expectations? Is there a gap in their knowledge or skills? Is there a skill that they still need practice with? Did I teach them how to do that? Are they sleep-deprived? Does my ADHD kid have enough of what his brain needs in order for his prefontal cortex to function at peak performance? Is his impulse control similar to a toddler's because he hasn't taken his meds? Playing the "blame game" really isn't helpful. What IS helpful is being curious about what's really driving behavior. Once I can identify what was the driving force behind a behavior, I can work with them to create a plan for them to make sure it doesn't happen again. Similarly, I can recognize that someone living in the depths of poverty did not willingly choose to be there, even if it may appear that way. Maybe their resources available to them weren't helpful. Maybe they never learned the skills that they should have been able to learn. Maybe they don't have what their body/brain needs and their brain isn't functioning at peak performance and so, like my ADHD kid, they literally can't use their best judgment, and their impulse control is impaired. I'm not saying that capitalism/socialism/communism/whatever is the answer. What I am saying is that playing the blame game isn't ever helpful, and we should keep asking questions to better understand. Instead of worrying whether or not someone is "blameless," or if their poverty is a result of their decisions, ask why they made those decisions in the first place. It's estimated that people with untreated ADHD make up a disproportionate percentage of prison inmates and those with housing insecurity. On the surface it may appear that these people are where they are as a direct result of their poor decisions and maybe they deserve to be where they are. But do they really? Or were they just unlucky enough to be put in a situation where they weren't able to gain the skills/meds/healthcare they needed in order to have good judgment-making skills? Blaming someone for their poverty/lack of success in life never gives them power to fix their life. Helping them find out why they made "bad" decisions in the first place will give them power to fix their life.
Yeah I understand what you're saying. I think we agree on a lot of this. What I like about the Jordan Peterson quote is that it directly addresses a common problem, which is that, some people think that they are entirely blameless in any issues in their life. Which can keep them stuck in a victim mentality, instead of looking for solutions. I agree that curiosity is a lot more effective than "blame". However I think that some people are very quick to deem themselves entirely blameless, And thus rob themselves of an opportunity to think of solutions to their problems and instead wait for someone else to "save them". Ultimately, The sad truth, is that a lot of people in this world don't believe that their life or their situation or their relationships can get better. So they often don't look for solutions.
@@myspiritualife If those people exist, I'll have to take your word for it. I've never met them. As far as I know, everybody I've ever met has been doing their best with what they have--the resources, skills, cash flow, physical health, mental health and belief systems that they have. (edited to add: believing that the world is a static, unchanging and unchangeable place is one of those belief systems). That's what I've gathered from my life, and Brene Brown (who has spent the last 2 decades researching shame, vulnerability, courage and empathy) would say so as well. When my ADHD kid hasn't had his medicine, he can be rude, mean and downright scary. He'll play too rough with his little sisters and think everyone is having a good time despite their screams and angry faces. He is genuinely oblivious, and he can't think through a situation to see what would be the natural consequences of his behavior. If I give him a list of more than one item to do at a time, he'll feel overwhelmed and ragefully throw things and punch things and yell. But when he's had his medicine, he is a completely different person. He acts in age-appropriate ways, gets upset but copes with it in healthy ways, talks through his feelings, pays attention to his sisters' words and facial expressions, practices empathy, thinks through situations before he acts, etc. It's REALLY important to me for people to understand that in BOTH scenarios, he is doing his best. When he is an unmedicated rage-monster who is hurting his sisters, he is doing his best just as much as when he is medicated and kind and empathetic. My wish is for him to grow up in a world where more people believe "everyone is doing their best" and let that lead their politics (i.e. making sure he always has affordable access to his medicine and that there isn't ever a shortage like there was a few months ago), instead of a world where more people believe "he just needs to get his act together and pull himself up by his bootstraps and make no excuses for his harmful behavior." If he grows up and can't afford his own medicine, the reality is that his level of executive function skills won't be as developed as well as someone like me. What I really don't want to have happen is for him to feel that he is to blame for not functioning as well as his neurotypical peers. If he does, the shame of that will keep him stuck in life. But if he realizes that it's not his fault, he will be able to give himself permission to research how ADHD affects him, maybe get an ADHD life coach, and realize how important it is that he take his medicine regularly. If he realizes that it's not his fault, then he can feel motivated to find out how he can improve his life. It's not "holding people blameless" that keeps people stuck and unable to move on in their lives. It's the shame and judgment and making people feel that they ARE entirely to blame that keeps people unwilling or unable to try anything new--to reach out to someone or something who can really help them. E dited to add: Helping people understand that the world--and their lives--are changeable helps people to get unstuck as well.
It might be useful to use language more carefully. While claiming the 'hybrid' position based on individual issues rather than a conglomerate of issues, the words used about others are still generalized to being either right or left. Changing the way we use language is a powerful way to change the way we think about things.
I have learned to question a lot of things. Cultish behavior can exist in so many ways. Just within Christianity there are celebrity pastors and denominational boxes that exist. I am convinced the bible is God's true word, but realize some mainstream doctrines are not really biblical. One example is eternal conscious torment. I am now convinced that either we have eternal life, or death of the soul.
Thank You for this video I too have changed many of my views and understanding throughout the course of my life time. I am grateful for developing a capacity to listen deeply to people who have very different values and ideas to my own. ✨ On a personal note. I lived and worked in New York City during the 1980’s . A sad thing was even then Mr Trump was highly unethical in his business dealings. Fortunately most of us only had that experience once with him and did not repeat the same lesson. ✨ Morgan I really appreciate your channel. I have been watching from the very first video. Not seen Ashley’s channel yet. I will go check it out today. ✨🎄✨
So I'm certainly not left-leaning But you'll have to excuse me for thinking it's absolutely crazy to think that creating heaven and living in that instead of an economic religious political system is not the better plan Actually I once said to you That I missed your hair after you cut it You pretty much told me to get lost I wasn't being mean or rude or spiteful But you weren't going to tolerate me having thoughts about hair Me I was free to watch any other channel I quit watching I wouldn't be watching it now because You don't think very much of me being around so that's okay It's not as though being shunned by you is the only person that's ever shunned me My earthly mom and fad shunned me because I'm not Mormon Anyways I don't know how people ever think they're going to get to experience Heaven if they don't create heaven. Being born again, being resurrected They're all ways of saying reincarnation which is just another way of saying you get to come back And it's either heaven or hell you either make each other pay for the gift of living or create a free world People are always saying we love our freedoms we love our freedoms but they don't hear what they say because they've been D.C.eived by the magic spell they don't here themselves saying they love free dumb What do I know every time I show up on Earth the same thing "We don't stone you for your good works" they say
Thanks so much for having me on! Really enjoyed our chat💜
Helllll yeah
Go Ashley! Love the sentiment of trying to create a middle ground. When I first saw this video I was bracing myself. I guess I feel like some people that "leave" any group just jump all in to some other group think.
I resonated a lot with the way you framed ideas.
I love how you make room for people that don't completely agree with you, including your husband. We need more of that for sure.
Love this collaboration! Love watching Ashley's content as well as yours. As someone who left the mormon religion went more on the left side and now I am slightly leaning more conservative. It's all soo much in such a short time. I always saw the parallel between the two within the past year. It is nice to finally see someone who gets it from both angles.
It is very brave of you to broach this subject in a former mormon space! Most who leave (and/or are featured on other podcasts) go hard left and join in on what is pushed by the establishment. Love it and love your channel.
This is exactly what I was noticing as well. Which is why I tried to remain unpolitical for so long. But now I feel the need to speak more about it because I think the radical left has very dangerous ideology that people who leave religions are more venerable to fall prey to. Additionally, I was very nervous to post this video. But I know that I can't aim this channel to please the masses or else I will lose myself. I am trying to build my content around principles that can help me withstand the backlash or the accolades.
I'm so glad you're sharing this conversation! It is so important for us to learn from each other. I'm about 12 minutes in, and I wanted to push back a little about the Jordan Peterson quote. You said that he said that if we allow someone to be blameless then we rob them of all power to fix their life. I strongly disagree. My disagreeing isn't a reflection of you, Morgan (you're awesome), just of that idea itself.
When I think about how my own parenting has changed over the years, I recognize that my initial style of parenting really harmed my kiddos. I can acknowledge that and own that. And I can also recognize that I was doing my best with what I had and what I knew. Nobody had taught me any better parenting skills. In fact, when I read parenting books they said I was doing everything just right, so even the resources available to me didn't help me improve my parenting. It wasn't until I had stopped believing in the church and had a complete paradigm shift that I was ready to look for and find vastly different material that finally helped me see a better alternative to what I had been doing. My old style of parenting was, in a nutshell, to assign blame and enforce consequences when my kids failed to meet expectations. I needed to hold my kids accountable for poor decisions and teach them that when they make bad choices, they deserve bad consequences.
My newer approach is to start with curiosity: why did my kid not meet my expectations? Is there a gap in their knowledge or skills? Is there a skill that they still need practice with? Did I teach them how to do that? Are they sleep-deprived? Does my ADHD kid have enough of what his brain needs in order for his prefontal cortex to function at peak performance? Is his impulse control similar to a toddler's because he hasn't taken his meds? Playing the "blame game" really isn't helpful. What IS helpful is being curious about what's really driving behavior. Once I can identify what was the driving force behind a behavior, I can work with them to create a plan for them to make sure it doesn't happen again.
Similarly, I can recognize that someone living in the depths of poverty did not willingly choose to be there, even if it may appear that way. Maybe their resources available to them weren't helpful. Maybe they never learned the skills that they should have been able to learn. Maybe they don't have what their body/brain needs and their brain isn't functioning at peak performance and so, like my ADHD kid, they literally can't use their best judgment, and their impulse control is impaired.
I'm not saying that capitalism/socialism/communism/whatever is the answer. What I am saying is that playing the blame game isn't ever helpful, and we should keep asking questions to better understand. Instead of worrying whether or not someone is "blameless," or if their poverty is a result of their decisions, ask why they made those decisions in the first place. It's estimated that people with untreated ADHD make up a disproportionate percentage of prison inmates and those with housing insecurity. On the surface it may appear that these people are where they are as a direct result of their poor decisions and maybe they deserve to be where they are. But do they really? Or were they just unlucky enough to be put in a situation where they weren't able to gain the skills/meds/healthcare they needed in order to have good judgment-making skills?
Blaming someone for their poverty/lack of success in life never gives them power to fix their life. Helping them find out why they made "bad" decisions in the first place will give them power to fix their life.
Yeah I understand what you're saying.
I think we agree on a lot of this.
What I like about the Jordan Peterson quote is that it directly addresses a common problem, which is that, some people think that they are entirely blameless in any issues in their life. Which can keep them stuck in a victim mentality, instead of looking for solutions.
I agree that curiosity is a lot more effective than "blame". However I think that some people are very quick to deem themselves entirely blameless, And thus rob themselves of an opportunity to think of solutions to their problems and instead wait for someone else to "save them".
Ultimately, The sad truth, is that a lot of people in this world don't believe that their life or their situation or their relationships can get better. So they often don't look for solutions.
@@myspiritualife If those people exist, I'll have to take your word for it. I've never met them. As far as I know, everybody I've ever met has been doing their best with what they have--the resources, skills, cash flow, physical health, mental health and belief systems that they have. (edited to add: believing that the world is a static, unchanging and unchangeable place is one of those belief systems). That's what I've gathered from my life, and Brene Brown (who has spent the last 2 decades researching shame, vulnerability, courage and empathy) would say so as well.
When my ADHD kid hasn't had his medicine, he can be rude, mean and downright scary. He'll play too rough with his little sisters and think everyone is having a good time despite their screams and angry faces. He is genuinely oblivious, and he can't think through a situation to see what would be the natural consequences of his behavior. If I give him a list of more than one item to do at a time, he'll feel overwhelmed and ragefully throw things and punch things and yell. But when he's had his medicine, he is a completely different person. He acts in age-appropriate ways, gets upset but copes with it in healthy ways, talks through his feelings, pays attention to his sisters' words and facial expressions, practices empathy, thinks through situations before he acts, etc.
It's REALLY important to me for people to understand that in BOTH scenarios, he is doing his best. When he is an unmedicated rage-monster who is hurting his sisters, he is doing his best just as much as when he is medicated and kind and empathetic.
My wish is for him to grow up in a world where more people believe "everyone is doing their best" and let that lead their politics (i.e. making sure he always has affordable access to his medicine and that there isn't ever a shortage like there was a few months ago), instead of a world where more people believe "he just needs to get his act together and pull himself up by his bootstraps and make no excuses for his harmful behavior."
If he grows up and can't afford his own medicine, the reality is that his level of executive function skills won't be as developed as well as someone like me. What I really don't want to have happen is for him to feel that he is to blame for not functioning as well as his neurotypical peers. If he does, the shame of that will keep him stuck in life. But if he realizes that it's not his fault, he will be able to give himself permission to research how ADHD affects him, maybe get an ADHD life coach, and realize how important it is that he take his medicine regularly. If he realizes that it's not his fault, then he can feel motivated to find out how he can improve his life.
It's not "holding people blameless" that keeps people stuck and unable to move on in their lives. It's the shame and judgment and making people feel that they ARE entirely to blame that keeps people unwilling or unable to try anything new--to reach out to someone or something who can really help them. E
dited to add: Helping people understand that the world--and their lives--are changeable helps people to get unstuck as well.
It might be useful to use language more carefully. While claiming the 'hybrid' position based on individual issues rather than a conglomerate of issues, the words used about others are still generalized to being either right or left. Changing the way we use language is a powerful way to change the way we think about things.
Might be better to think of 'tribes'. Any group of people bonded or united around any particular ideology.
There really is no " the left . " Its sort of like a huge family that quarrels . Not every member in that family is pushy with cult-like ways .
True not everyone behaves that way.
I have learned to question a lot of things. Cultish behavior can exist in so many ways. Just within Christianity there are celebrity pastors and denominational boxes that exist. I am convinced the bible is God's true word, but realize some mainstream doctrines are not really biblical. One example is eternal conscious torment. I am now convinced that either we have eternal life, or death of the soul.
god it's hot how good of an interviewer you are.
10 out of 10
would hit dat
Let's meet up. I'm free next Friday ;)
😮
Thank You for this video
I too have changed many of my views and understanding throughout the course of my life time.
I am grateful for developing a capacity to listen deeply
to people who have very different values and ideas to
my own.
✨
On a personal note.
I lived and worked in
New York City during the
1980’s .
A sad thing was even then
Mr Trump was highly unethical in his business dealings.
Fortunately most of us only
had that experience once
with him and did not repeat the same lesson.
✨
Morgan I really appreciate your channel. I have been watching from the very first
video.
Not seen Ashley’s channel
yet. I will go check it out
today.
✨🎄✨
Thanks, Katie! Wow I can't believe you've been here for that long! That is pretty cool to hear.
So I'm certainly not left-leaning
But you'll have to excuse me for thinking it's absolutely crazy to think that creating heaven and living in that instead of an economic religious political system is not the better plan
Actually I once said to you
That I missed your hair after you cut it
You pretty much told me to get lost
I wasn't being mean or rude or spiteful
But you weren't going to tolerate me having thoughts about hair
Me I was free to watch any other channel
I quit watching
I wouldn't be watching it now because
You don't think very much of me being around so that's okay
It's not as though being shunned by you is the only person that's ever shunned me
My earthly mom and fad shunned me because I'm not Mormon
Anyways I don't know how people ever think they're going to get to experience Heaven if they don't create heaven.
Being born again, being resurrected
They're all ways of saying reincarnation which is just another way of saying you get to come back
And it's either heaven or hell you either make each other pay for the gift of living or create a free world
People are always saying we love our freedoms we love our freedoms but they don't hear what they say because they've been D.C.eived by the magic spell they don't here themselves saying they love free dumb
What do I know every time I show up on Earth the same thing
"We don't stone you for your good works" they say