So yeah, it flies. But a ton of time and money went into making it fly. Most importantly, there are 11 modifications I had to make before I considered it safe to use. Please watch this video before considering buying one of these: ua-cam.com/video/bsOynmKp0KA/v-deo.html
New rings usually come with an undersized gap .. which you must manually adjust with a ring file. I guess you got lucky because it didn't seize after you put power to hit and heated the motor. Heating rings expands them, reducing end gap.. if too small, the ends butt and excessive ring pressure will damage the motor.
Go fill out an application at the nearest plumbers or electricians union hall for an apprenticeship. Cause your gonna lose an eye with this very dumb idea.
Was anxious to see how this worked out. Was fun to watch. Don’t think I’d trade my Moster 185 for it but it’s amazing that an rc airplane engine can fly a person. Well done!
The expansion chamber allows for scavenging the cylinders and most importantly adds back pulses which act like a supercharger and force unburnt fuel from the exhaust into the cylinders before the port is blocked.
@@raymondo162 good point I didn't think about that. May actually hinder scavenging on a cylinder. Where are the engineers when you need one? Do the cylinders fire at the same time?
The cylinders are 180 dg apart so fire opposite each other. probably wasted spark so spark when piston is down too. the pipe will only partially work on one cylinder. as the tube leading to the other will waste some of the return pulse. If you used two tuned pipes on each cylinder it would gain more hp. There is a formula to work the distance to the Convergent & stinger parts to the port to rpm. You should have gapped the rings in the bore as if it is too small a gap it will seize the engine when hot.
right .. I'm surprised he didn't seize it ... I build racing kart motors, ring gap is super critical when installing a new ring. Very little power is lost via ring gap ... power loss usually results form aa ring warping and no longer contacting all the cylinder bore .. which can be visually seen with a light when squaring up a ring in the bore, if it ain't warped, run it. Alternatively, compression test it.
Tuned exhaust is the single most beneficial thing you can do to a 2 stroke. Second being proper ignition timing/advance curve. (outside of more drastic things that may or may not be able to be done depending on the engine)
Thinner base gasket, open the exhaust port, Check the squish on the TBC, Dual stage reed block (if it as a reed block). And re-time the ignition. Also, maybe want to drill a small hole 1~1.5 mm hole on the lower piston skirt facing the exhaust port. And open up the intake, while re-jeting the carb, and run 104 octane gas with a exhaust gas temp gauge. 2 stroke are fun and cheap to play with. How far you want to push it is really up to you.
@@fredpinczuk7352 Of course that is all valid for squeezing every last bit out of an engine. But most of that is beyond the scope of simple "bolt on's", which was the scope of my comments. Proper tuned exhaust, and properly timed ignition are the 2 most beneficial gains to be had. They get you 80% there. Proper ignition timing also means proper advance curve however, and that requires a CDI (preferably CDI) that has the proper curve of course. Simply running 104 octane fuel wont get you anywhere unless you also do the mods (deck the head, lower squish band, thinner base gasket etc.) required to increase compression ratio. Higher octane does not provide better power in itself. The higher compression does, and we need higher octane fuel to prevent detonation. To add to your advanced list, some other mods would be to fully port the intake, exhaust and transfer ports. Stuff the crank case for better case pressure. All that being said, I am betting you could get a significant increase in usable power out of one of these engines if you done all that. Whether or not it will last after all that is another story altogether. By the time you do all that any cost benefits have gone out the window also.....but its fun to tinker and see what you can do.
I really like the idea of paragliding but not in an that is rural enough. But would love to have this kit for my bike and boat so I could get have little adventure with backpack fan motor kit. I really like how multitasking this wee motor system can be !
Nice. 2 strokes are so weird, like parts got left out. A proper chambered exhaust makes a big difference in useful power at the right rpm. There is actually quite a science to it. The rings might have been ok but what an easy swap. Glad it works!
Yeah the pipes basically act like vtech. It alters the exhaust scavenging based on the pulse rate of the combustion. Having a 2t bike it's remarkable how difficult they are. There are books describing the effect and how to change the scavenging but good luck understanding it
Lol… you took the words outta my mouth! That would make a sick mid day thermal machine!!!! My rush 5 and that looks funner that my nitro / rush 5 combo fir hooking some lift. Very cool!
I flew it the other day, it got me to about 1500 AGL in 15 min. Burned almost 1/2 gallon in 20 minutes. So endurance and climb are poor but it can get you up there.
@@AveryFlies typically when I mid day with motor (no mountains in east Texas) we climb to 1000’ and hook a thermal. It’s a bit harder below that and I like to keep a hard deck of 750 to 1000’ mid day. I’m 220 hooked in, so that prolly won’t work for me, but the set up is nice for sure!!!
thats pretty cool. I just stumbled across your video, and recognized you from the RC airplane groups that you were asking questions in lol. smalll world
When installing a ring there is a way to measure the gap inside the the cylinder and if its to small the gap needs to be made wider because it can cause engine damage if the gap is to small
I fly rc, the reason they put oil in the engine, is to stop them ciezing or being hard to turn after long storage. I have glow engines, some people do it to those as well
I thought about it, but the market is so small and it needed so many fixes it just doesn't seem like a good idea. Maybe I'll become an RB dealer! Their minimot uses the same engine
The main reason the compression felt so much higher was because the cylinders were full of oil. This will artificially increase the compression significantly.
You need to be very careful when playing with ring gaps. The rings expand as they get hot. If the two ends touch they will seize the engine or at the very least damage the piston or bore. As you found out the gap doesn't make much difference to power. A tighter gap should improve starting and give a very small power gain but I'm not sure it's worth the effort and risk. It's a bit late now but the correct thing to do is to fit the rings in the bore without the piston then measure the gap. If it's too tight you can file the ends with a fine file.
Good to know In the future, thanks. All the RC guys swear by Bowman rings in this motor so I think I'm in the clear but I'll be sure to do that next time
@@AveryFlies To be honest if lots of people have already used these rings you are unlikely to have a problem. It is however a very common practice in performance engine circles to check your ring gaps before installing them. Of course that assumes you know what the gap should be in the first place...
that tuned exhaust came on song once the old draggy propellor was replaced . Hopefully you replaced that restrictive air filter .. it looks way too small.
I did take the filter off when I was tracking down the reason for poor performance, and there were no changes with the filter removed. The carb opening is pretty small, the filter doesn't seem to be holding me back at all.
Tucker Gott is doing the same thing and he changed the carabiner's as they were no-name brand. The main thing I noticed with your setup is that you didn't tune the engine. I felt like it had lag on acceleration, and didn't make as much power as it could. Tucker tuned the engine, I think he got a lot more power out of it. But the prop seems to be a major change, but also I like the ring mod. Tucker also changed out the entire fuel line system because the primer bulb was restricting fuel flow.
Yes, I've been following his exploits. My primer bulb worked, but my fuel line was PVC, so I swapped that. I didn't show it on camera but I did tweak the carb a lot, and chose to run slightly rich intentionally.
@@AveryFlies I would have included that tid-bit. That's the detail people want to know. I'm really curious if this all works out. You did some pretty interesting mods. The bulb is just a marine outboard item. that exhaust was amazing. I feel there is a lot of parts available for that engine. So it will be interesting to see what Mr. Gott comes up with. Top channel BTW. Subbed.
Would love to hear a steep pitched tribleade and twin expansion chambers into single Repacked stainless wool resonator and then rejet carb or get new motorbike racing carburettor maybe from a J series racing Gokart?
@@AveryFlies oh I'm aware of prop science from drones. For me more blades =quieter Harsher pitch for more blades to equalise thrust; more blades causes more aerodynamic drag so you will need to add more throttle and potentially shorten the range? But range can be increased with a bigger fuel tank and some more precise tuning (possibly a different card and jetting?) Having a really decent muffler system as well and you could potentially not piss as many people of?
Pretty cool. I live on an island in the Caribbean with constant 10-15mph winds. I'm looking for a small, lightweight paramotor I can carry on a commercial airplane. A couple of questions if you would. 1. How much total are you invested in this? Can you give a break down? 2. It weighs 40lb which is great. What's the combined displacement on the engine? 3. Do you have any pictures of it with the hoop broken down? Would it fit in a normal sized suitcase? Thanks in advance.
1: $3300 including upgrades 2: the engine is a DLE 170, 170cc, 17.5 hp @ 7500 rpm 3: probably would not fit in the suitcase, broken all the way down, it would probably fit in a 24"x36"x36" crate or box. The hoops come off but the spars are built in, and the main frame is an A-shape from the side. Definitely smaller than any other I've seen, but not that small.
@@AveryFlies Thanks man. You did not happen to take pics of the box it shipped in by chance? I'll connect with the vendor too. Where did you get the "drill guide" from?
@@GDFred88 You can see the original box in the first minute of my first impressions video: ua-cam.com/video/laPZRjj8QPY/v-deo.html the drill guide I got on amazon, it shipped from horizon hobbies. www.amazon.com/Dle-Engines-Propeller-DLE170-DLE222/dp/B0051W91MA Keep in mind that this frame needs a LOT of work to make it safe, I have 11 things you need to change or address before flying: ua-cam.com/video/bsOynmKp0KA/v-deo.html it is not a good first time paramotor, and should be approached with caution. Beach flying does sound great though, check out @ParaSurvival he flies the same frame at a beach in Texas.
Great video! At 230 lbs I am way too big for this. I have flown with a few small stature people and I think this would be a great option. What is the dry weight on this unit? I have a couple female friends looking to get started.
This video is so awesome! I have always wanted to do this. How much training is needed? Can you point me to some resources? I am a H2 hang glide pilot so I have some aviation training. This type of flying is really something I want to do! Thanks for the video!
Happy to hear it! Check out some of my other videos, this is NOT a typical paramotor. They're usually heavier and way better. I've documented basically all my flights since the first one. some resources: FAQ: docs.google.com/document/d/1ivaOsXf7f7T5jlCqqdD7my6KwQoJ9BXNhz89HzZGZ-Q/edit?usp=sharing usppa.org parayelp.com facebook.com/groups/paramotor You can also drop me an email, the address is in the about section of my youtube channel
Flying the XCend for 4 years now. Looking at moving up to an EN-B. Your channel is the best resource for hybrid pg/ppg wings. Do you have any thoughts on considerations for the progression? Is the Vantage a lateral move in your experience? Thanks Dude!
Happy to help! If you've been enjoying the Xcend, the vantage will launch easier, maneuver better, and fly faster. It's a good pick for more speed and better handling if you also want to paraglide with it. If you're considering a ppg only wing, I would look at something reflexed like a Spyder 3
@@AveryFlies thank you, that is a tremendous help. I do about 50/50 free flight versus powered. I'll start testing out wings and see where it takes me. Plan on setting up vantage 3 and epic 2 test flights.
I heard you say Yadkinville LZ Did you mean yadkinville NC If yes please where is the place because I live in Clemmons near yadkinville and I paraglide. Your reply would be highly appreciated.
Yes, yadkinville NC, I fly from several spots in Davie/Iredell/Yadkin counties. I am not at liberty to freely share my flying spots since they are all on private property, but you can send me an email and we can chat about it. Note they are all flat, I have no spots that are suitable for free flight launches or tows. My email address is in the about section of this channel.
The sudden rise in perceived compression was no doubt due to the oil bath you had given the piston rings. See if you can purchase rings that actually overlap. They make them for cars. You’re going to see your best performance by having a higher compression ratio, larger carburetor, and better exhaust.
Other viewers have mentioned that as well. everyone in the RC community swears these rings are as good as it gets though, and it does fly, so that's where I'm leaving them.
Thanks! I live a long way from the beach. There are trees all along those power lines when I come along to land, if I clear the trees I clear the lines. Not too bad, the land owner is very generous and it's a beautiful spot so I will be using it for a long time yet
@@AveryFlies Love to. DM me your email or cell and I'll drop you a text. I have a hang glider that I'm mounting on a trike unit. Would like to investigate / learn about PPG. My buddy has a strip at the Jomeokee campground in Pinnacle and used to do PPG, has a ultralight now. Look forward to meeting you.
Great video!!!!! I've seen pther videos about this parmpotor and most of the buyers fly it out of the box with no upgrades. Why didn't yours take you of the ground out of the box? Is it diferent than other DLE paramotors? I was thinking on buying one, but after seeing your video Im not so sure
I tried to fly it stock, see the first 30 seconds of the video... My propeller was crap. If I had changed the prop it would've flown stock. I didn't know the prop was the problem at first and went to engine tweaking. If you buy one, don't get it with the propeller and source your own.
You kept focusing on RPMs, which is okay until you changed the prop. But just because a different prop goes to a higher RPM doesn't mean you gained anything. In fact, it could actually be worse. What you really need to measure is THRUST, because that's what matters. Also, going to an expansion pipe without rejetting the carbs could run you dangerously lean. Usually a performance pipe requires richer jetting. Lessons from my old jet ski days! 🙂
All true. Since the prop was close to the same area and (supposedly) similar pitch, the new prop did pick up a lot of thrust. For the carb, it's just a little hi-low Walbro. No jets to change, but I did richen it 1/4 turn.
@@AveryFlies I have a lot of experience with Powered Parachutes (and hence, props and engines). Have been flying them for 24 years and have literally owned dozens. Props can make a HUGE difference. Even props that are supposedly the same pitch can vary greatly (because of their design). The key to optimal performance is to first find out at what RPM your engine makes its peak horsepower. Most make their peak hp well before the "max rpm" and in fact tail off between "peak" and "max". Then, you want to select a prop that is pitched to max your engine out where it is making it's peak amount of horsepower. That should give you the maximum amount of thrust. I'll also point out that there is a direct correlation between your engine speed and your EGT (exhaust gas temperature). If you are under-propped (RPM too high at max throttle) then your exhaust gas temps will soar (which can melt pistons). We run EGT gages on our powerchute engines, and if my EGT is running too high (with the carb properly jetted), adding a little pitch to the prop (we run adjustable pitch props) will bring the EGT down. Anyway, very interesting video, and it was neat to see that you got it in the air. Yes, tuned pipes can add a LOT of horsepower. I bet if you went with a slightly taller pitch on your prop (now that you have the extra hp to push it) you would get even MORE thrust. (when the jet ski guys add a tuned pipe, they always add a higher pitched impeller to take advantage of the extra hp). Good luck and keep flying!
@@dracolyth yyyyes,...at a certain mach number of tip speed... but I am not hitting that. You can read through my previous 5-10 replies on this subject. I welcome you to do the math on a 32" prop spinning at 6000 RPM. It's less than the performance-robbing mach 0.92.
I was actually thinking the same thing. The higher rpm prop may have more quick torque, but will sacrifice thrust. Went through this on a boat as well.
It is a pity that you do not have the automatic titles option activated in the video, it is very easy to activate it, I was very interested in this video but being Spanish and not knowing English I do not understand it, I have flown a paramotor for 25 years and thousands of hours with a 68cm diameter propeller, which is why I was very interested in the video. A big greeting.
omg I've inadvertently purchased counterfeit items from Ali before, but none of them had the potential to kill me just because they were fake! Hopefully you got the real thing :)
I don't have a way of measuring it, sorry. The falcon propeller says it should be about 90 lbs of thrust. It's enough for me, but I wouldn't consider it if you weigh over 180
Please be careful! There are some serious problems that need to be addressed before flying this! Watch my video here: ua-cam.com/video/bsOynmKp0KA/v-deo.html
@@AveryFlies probably just gonna irresponsibility impulse buy it and just send it based off this one video And blame you if something goes wrong, I mean I did watch a 10 minute video on UA-cam so it’s gotta be fine! Haha lol jk But really I appreciate the advice I definitely won’t be letting my son fly something I wouldn’t fly. Since I stated flying I’ve wanted to share the sky’s with my son this is an idea years in the making and won’t happen for awhile but now I know exactly where to start.
I found him here on UA-cam, looked him up on Facebook, and dropped him a message. This is his business page, if you scroll on a bit you can find the listing for the exhaust for sale. facebook.com/Dle170-Paramotor-Thailand-104153761733715/
Good point. I'd probably need to weld on small tabs to tie wire to. It's all one piece, unlike a moster exhaust it doesn't have spring loaded joints. I feel like the fact the exhaust system is only attached at the engine block means it moves with the motor and has a lower chance of cracking. I will look into wiring though, you have a good point.
GoPro Hero 8 Black with a SnapMount magnetic mount. The back plate of the mount goes inside the last cell of the wing, and the camera attaches to the plate magnetically through the bottom fabric surface.
Yes. The Bowman rings I used are sold as a drop-in, no gap ring. All the RC guys swear by them in the DLE series of engines. Runs great, sue me. (Actually don't sue me, I have no money)
@@AveryFlies that's bonkers. Next build, if you get a little more granular about it I'm sure you'll have even better results. Very cool video. Paragliding seems amazing.
DLE170 parts are super cheap. It uses a Walbro carb. Parts can be bought from a hobby store, since it is an RC airplane engine. The crankshaft with both connecting rods is less than $200, for example.
Well, I didn't make it from scratch, I bought it from aliexpress and simply assembled it. I'd be happy to assemble (and safety check) one for you if you're near me in NC, though
So how much did the mods cost and what was the time investment to get this off the ground? I bet you ended up spending more than a good used unit would end up costing.
The exhaust and prop brought the total with tax and shipping to around $3200. Maybe 3-4 hours worth of tweaks and upgrades. I browse the classifieds regularly, I haven't seen an atom80 powered unit for that cheap.
If I understand you correctly, yes. The DLE170 spins counter-clockwise, so this needed a pusher propeller that is reverse pitch from the typical dle170 prop
I always would be worrying about how well the frame was constructed and the materials used, tensile strength of the metal and so forth. It did look like a lot of fun and super lightweight.
It's all aluminum, though I can't speak to what grade, oval shaped frame and hoop sections with solid bar crossmembers. The bars are 1.5"x0.25" or so. The oval tubing is about 1/8" wall thickness and about 1.5"x0.75". The welds look solid, I'm no welder but there's no cracks, missed spots, or messy grinder work. At the end of the day the hardest thing it's doing is supporting me from 4 points, and it is definitely strong enough to do that. I have sat on the assembled hoop with no problem.
This looks like a kids version. Im 230 pounds and I would need a moster 185+. Im sure you've heard of Tucker Gott UA-cam channel. Hope you didn't skip on a wing. I've been thinking about getting into this sport. Looks absolutely fun.
Is definitely a small motor for a small person. Of course I know tucker, I bought my wing from him. You would probably want a moster 185, Thor 190, or Polini 202 or similar.
@@AveryFlies that's awesome bro. Also great video. I appreciate the response. I don't know him personally but ran into a video. Im a Aviation Mechanic stationed in Atlanta. This seems the cheapest way without spending a fortune for a plane or mosquito helicopter. Thanks again man.
@@lancedooley7558 it is the most affordable heavier than air form of flight, and it's very freeing. Find an instructor and get up there, you'll love it!
The gap is what the manufacturer made them. These rings are purpose built for this engine, they are widely regarded in the RC world as a high quality, drop-in ring set. I trust whatever gap was made with these rings given the reputation of the company making them. I will be sure to measure the gap if I have to disassemble then engine in the future though.
If you've never flown a paramotor please don't buy this as your first paramotor. It's not good, and unless you put a lot of work into it, in stock form it's dangerous.
They didn't specify. The blades themselves were thicker but I couldn't notice a difference in pitch. There clearly was a difference though, changing the prop made a huge increase in thrust.
So yeah, it flies. But a ton of time and money went into making it fly. Most importantly, there are 11 modifications I had to make before I considered it safe to use. Please watch this video before considering buying one of these: ua-cam.com/video/bsOynmKp0KA/v-deo.html
Also remember that the Chinese weigh half what Europeans do lol
@@Surferant666 or us Americans for that matter 🤣
no proof any god has ever existed except in senile old mens minds.
New rings usually come with an undersized gap .. which you must manually adjust with a ring file. I guess you got lucky because it didn't seize after you put power to hit and heated the motor. Heating rings expands them, reducing end gap.. if too small, the ends butt and excessive ring pressure will damage the motor.
Go fill out an application at the nearest plumbers or electricians union hall for an apprenticeship. Cause your gonna lose an eye with this very dumb idea.
I really appreciate the time that you're taking with your videos, thanks
Awesome video! Thanks for showing the whole process of swapping out rings - New to PPG, and trying to learn as much as possible!
Loving this little series. Thanks for bringing us along!
This is hilariously cool how you took some junk and made it working/flying machine! Definitely following for future flights!
The engine is proven, there are a lot of people flying on them, so I don't know that I'd call it junk per say... But it's definitely low quality.
@@AveryFlies maybe a little harsh, but that’s awesome you got it running really well. Big kudos to you my dude.
$2500 is junk? Must be nice living your life.
Was anxious to see how this worked out. Was fun to watch. Don’t think I’d trade my Moster 185 for it but it’s amazing that an rc airplane engine can fly a person. Well done!
Yeah, definitely not getting rid of my normal defiant. But it's cool to have options
The openPPG X4 uses an (electric) RC engine ... but it does use 4 of them.
The expansion chamber allows for scavenging the cylinders and most importantly adds back pulses which act like a supercharger and force unburnt fuel from the exhaust into the cylinders before the port is blocked.
all gets a bit sketchy tho - when you got one expansion chamber operating across two cylinders............... ??
@@raymondo162 good point I didn't think about that. May actually hinder scavenging on a cylinder. Where are the engineers when you need one? Do the cylinders fire at the same time?
They do.
The cylinders are 180 dg apart so fire opposite each other. probably wasted spark so spark when piston is down too. the pipe will only partially work on one cylinder. as the tube leading to the other will waste some of the return pulse. If you used two tuned pipes on each cylinder it would gain more hp. There is a formula to work the distance to the Convergent & stinger parts to the port to rpm. You should have gapped the rings in the bore as if it is too small a gap it will seize the engine when hot.
Great stuff bro!!! I loved watching this!!🤙🏼
The only thing I would have done differently is to put the new rings in the cylinder, square it up with the piston and check the gap. Cool video.
right .. I'm surprised he didn't seize it ... I build racing kart motors, ring gap is super critical when installing a new ring. Very little power is lost via ring gap ... power loss usually results form aa ring warping and no longer contacting all the cylinder bore .. which can be visually seen with a light when squaring up a ring in the bore, if it ain't warped, run it. Alternatively, compression test it.
@@KrustyKlowna
Wow, that was impressive!
Glad you liked it!
Great video! You put a lot of work into getting that engine fit to fly!
Loved the video.
I used to paraglide some time ago.
Now I'm thinking about buying a setup like yours.
Thanks for the good info...
Fly safe
Glad you liked it!
Brilliant I enjoyed that made my day - stay safe
Love the Twin into expansion chamber👍 less "poppy" and much nicer power delivery too
Yes bet your glad the mods gave you the extra thrust you needed
Yeah, it was mostly in the propeller, but I am glad I did the exhaust and rings for sure
I fly the Gravity Excend 26. It's been good to me. I think it really shines in free-flight.
Tuned exhaust is the single most beneficial thing you can do to a 2 stroke. Second being proper ignition timing/advance curve. (outside of more drastic things that may or may not be able to be done depending on the engine)
Thinner base gasket, open the exhaust port, Check the squish on the TBC, Dual stage reed block (if it as a reed block). And re-time the ignition.
Also, maybe want to drill a small hole 1~1.5 mm hole on the lower piston skirt facing the exhaust port. And open up the intake, while re-jeting the carb, and run 104 octane gas with a exhaust gas temp gauge.
2 stroke are fun and cheap to play with. How far you want to push it is really up to you.
@@fredpinczuk7352 Of course that is all valid for squeezing every last bit out of an engine. But most of that is beyond the scope of simple "bolt on's", which was the scope of my comments. Proper tuned exhaust, and properly timed ignition are the 2 most beneficial gains to be had. They get you 80% there. Proper ignition timing also means proper advance curve however, and that requires a CDI (preferably CDI) that has the proper curve of course. Simply running 104 octane fuel wont get you anywhere unless you also do the mods (deck the head, lower squish band, thinner base gasket etc.) required to increase compression ratio. Higher octane does not provide better power in itself. The higher compression does, and we need higher octane fuel to prevent detonation. To add to your advanced list, some other mods would be to fully port the intake, exhaust and transfer ports. Stuff the crank case for better case pressure. All that being said, I am betting you could get a significant increase in usable power out of one of these engines if you done all that. Whether or not it will last after all that is another story altogether. By the time you do all that any cost benefits have gone out the window also.....but its fun to tinker and see what you can do.
Thanks for your work, it gives rise to an ambition to do the same for the same purpose, space and weight while travelling, plus, my old legs.
That looks like a heap of fun. 😊 Nice work.
I really like the idea of paragliding but not in an that is rural enough. But would love to have this kit for my bike and boat so I could get have little adventure with backpack fan motor kit. I really like how multitasking this wee motor system can be !
Very knowledgeable and well done video. Thanks.
Indexing the spark plugs is a good idea on a 2 stroke also, you get a little more power and your less likely to foul the plug.
So cool - nice tune up
Nice. 2 strokes are so weird, like parts got left out.
A proper chambered exhaust makes a big difference in useful power at the right rpm. There is actually quite a science to it.
The rings might have been ok but what an easy swap. Glad it works!
Yeah the pipes basically act like vtech. It alters the exhaust scavenging based on the pulse rate of the combustion. Having a 2t bike it's remarkable how difficult they are. There are books describing the effect and how to change the scavenging but good luck understanding it
Awesome, been looking forward to this, very thorough review video.
Lol… you took the words outta my mouth! That would make a sick mid day thermal machine!!!! My rush 5 and that looks funner that my nitro / rush 5 combo fir hooking some lift. Very cool!
I flew it the other day, it got me to about 1500 AGL in 15 min. Burned almost 1/2 gallon in 20 minutes. So endurance and climb are poor but it can get you up there.
@@AveryFlies typically when I mid day with motor (no mountains in east Texas) we climb to 1000’ and hook a thermal. It’s a bit harder below that and I like to keep a hard deck of 750 to 1000’ mid day. I’m 220 hooked in, so that prolly won’t work for me, but the set up is nice for sure!!!
thats pretty cool. I just stumbled across your video, and recognized you from the RC airplane groups that you were asking questions in lol. smalll world
Hey, nice to see you! I won't deny that I need help in areas that aren't my expertise, thanks for stopping by!
Thank you for the video.
Great video. Looks fun
Adding an expansion chamber can significantly weaken the mixture on a two stroke, keep an eye on the plug colour!
Yep, had to retune! That added a lot of power
Awesome, great flight and great information!!!!!
_Outstanding_ job there Avery!!! 🦅👍⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
love it... I'm in... Good to see you Aves
Hi j-wow!
When installing a ring there is a way to measure the gap inside the the cylinder and if its to small the gap needs to be made wider because it can cause engine damage if the gap is to small
They are bowman rings, already perfectly set up and the guy is brilliant to deal with.
I fly rc, the reason they put oil in the engine, is to stop them ciezing or being hard to turn after long storage. I have glow engines, some people do it to those as well
I'd fly it! You should build these RTF. You'd make a lot of money. You got me looking at that glider for sure. Thanks for sharing.
I thought about it, but the market is so small and it needed so many fixes it just doesn't seem like a good idea. Maybe I'll become an RB dealer! Their minimot uses the same engine
7:45 MOOOO POWAAAA
I was hoping someone would catch that
@Tuckergott needs this exhaust
Yeah, it helps with engine performance, but not noise. That's mostly the propeller speed!
This was awesome!!! I cant believe it worked so well.
The main reason the compression felt so much higher was because the cylinders were full of oil. This will artificially increase the compression significantly.
Hadn't thought of that, good point
What A Cool Device And Mods.
You need to be very careful when playing with ring gaps. The rings expand as they get hot. If the two ends touch they will seize the engine or at the very least damage the piston or bore. As you found out the gap doesn't make much difference to power. A tighter gap should improve starting and give a very small power gain but I'm not sure it's worth the effort and risk. It's a bit late now but the correct thing to do is to fit the rings in the bore without the piston then measure the gap. If it's too tight you can file the ends with a fine file.
Good to know In the future, thanks. All the RC guys swear by Bowman rings in this motor so I think I'm in the clear but I'll be sure to do that next time
@@AveryFlies To be honest if lots of people have already used these rings you are unlikely to have a problem. It is however a very common practice in performance engine circles to check your ring gaps before installing them. Of course that assumes you know what the gap should be in the first place...
@@LesNewell happy to hear that. I will be more cautious in the future. Thanks for the info! Every day is a learning experience!
Thanks dude, I am 54 and now know why rings have gaps, and the gap distance is important, I have learned something new today.
that tuned exhaust came on song once the old draggy propellor was replaced . Hopefully you replaced that restrictive air filter .. it looks way too small.
I did take the filter off when I was tracking down the reason for poor performance, and there were no changes with the filter removed. The carb opening is pretty small, the filter doesn't seem to be holding me back at all.
What is the maximum height that you can go, if you could let me know please. I hope to see more of your videos.
Take care sir.
Alan
You know, I'm not sure, but with a small 1 gallon tank it's probably limited to time more than thrust. I would guess 2000-3000 feet above ground.
Title has me hooked I’m in to watch, might be good for my kid!? Haha
Very cool! Run time? Can you retrofit a larger fuel tank?
Flies for about an hour on the one gallon. Bigger tank is a maybe. The upgraded exhaust takes up a lot of room.
Tucker Gott is doing the same thing and he changed the carabiner's as they were no-name brand. The main thing I noticed with your setup is that you didn't tune the engine. I felt like it had lag on acceleration, and didn't make as much power as it could. Tucker tuned the engine, I think he got a lot more power out of it. But the prop seems to be a major change, but also I like the ring mod. Tucker also changed out the entire fuel line system because the primer bulb was restricting fuel flow.
Yes, I've been following his exploits. My primer bulb worked, but my fuel line was PVC, so I swapped that. I didn't show it on camera but I did tweak the carb a lot, and chose to run slightly rich intentionally.
@@AveryFlies I would have included that tid-bit. That's the detail people want to know. I'm really curious if this all works out. You did some pretty interesting mods. The bulb is just a marine outboard item. that exhaust was amazing. I feel there is a lot of parts available for that engine. So it will be interesting to see what Mr. Gott comes up with. Top channel BTW. Subbed.
Looks great. You have that 'Napolian Dynamite' vibe to you. Hope we don't get that video that's starts out, 'Sad to report...' know what I mean?
I get that a lot. Sadly my hair doesn't get that gorgeous 😂
@@AveryFlies
lol!
The expansion chamber added a lot more power than you think. Swap the exhaust back and you will see a huge decrease in thrust.
Oh I bet! It was a pain to put on though, it's not coming back off haha
lol you gotta let me try that engine one day!
Come on down! Winston Salem NC!
Very informative video subscribed!
Would love to hear a steep pitched tribleade and twin expansion chambers into single Repacked stainless wool resonator and then rejet carb or get new motorbike racing carburettor maybe from a J series racing Gokart?
Without going crazy on mods, the 32x10 or 32x12 carbon fiber prop is the best thrust option for this engine. Falcon props has tested this.
@@AveryFlies oh I'm aware of prop science from drones.
For me more blades =quieter Harsher pitch for more blades to equalise thrust;
more blades causes more aerodynamic drag so you will need to add more throttle and potentially shorten the range? But range can be increased with a bigger fuel tank and some more precise tuning (possibly a different card and jetting?)
Having a really decent muffler system as well and you could potentially not piss as many people of?
Great presentation
How much HP?
How many cc?
170cc, 17 HP @ 7500 rpm
ITS FANTASTIC ,YOU COULD ALSO TRY FITTING YOUR CEILING FAN ON IT MIGHT GIVE MORE THRUST .
🤣
Great work. Most paramotors use 125cm prop. What propeller size, brand did you choose?
My normal paramotor (gravity defiant) uses a 130cm e-prop. This little guy is swinging a Xoar brand 32x12 (81 cm)
@@AveryFlies thanks. amazing only 32 inch prop.
Pretty cool. I live on an island in the Caribbean with constant 10-15mph winds. I'm looking for a small, lightweight paramotor I can carry on a commercial airplane.
A couple of questions if you would.
1. How much total are you invested in this? Can you give a break down?
2. It weighs 40lb which is great. What's the combined displacement on the engine?
3. Do you have any pictures of it with the hoop broken down? Would it fit in a normal sized suitcase?
Thanks in advance.
1: $3300 including upgrades
2: the engine is a DLE 170, 170cc, 17.5 hp @ 7500 rpm
3: probably would not fit in the suitcase, broken all the way down, it would probably fit in a 24"x36"x36" crate or box. The hoops come off but the spars are built in, and the main frame is an A-shape from the side. Definitely smaller than any other I've seen, but not that small.
@@AveryFlies Thanks man. You did not happen to take pics of the box it shipped in by chance? I'll connect with the vendor too. Where did you get the "drill guide" from?
@@GDFred88 You can see the original box in the first minute of my first impressions video: ua-cam.com/video/laPZRjj8QPY/v-deo.html
the drill guide I got on amazon, it shipped from horizon hobbies. www.amazon.com/Dle-Engines-Propeller-DLE170-DLE222/dp/B0051W91MA
Keep in mind that this frame needs a LOT of work to make it safe, I have 11 things you need to change or address before flying: ua-cam.com/video/bsOynmKp0KA/v-deo.html it is not a good first time paramotor, and should be approached with caution. Beach flying does sound great though, check out @ParaSurvival he flies the same frame at a beach in Texas.
Great vid man!
Great video! At 230 lbs I am way too big for this. I have flown with a few small stature people and I think this would be a great option. What is the dry weight on this unit? I have a couple female friends looking to get started.
No fuel, before the exhaust upgrade, I measured 34 lbs.
This video is so awesome! I have always wanted to do this. How much training is needed? Can you point me to some resources? I am a H2 hang glide pilot so I have some aviation training. This type of flying is really something I want to do! Thanks for the video!
Happy to hear it! Check out some of my other videos, this is NOT a typical paramotor. They're usually heavier and way better. I've documented basically all my flights since the first one.
some resources:
FAQ: docs.google.com/document/d/1ivaOsXf7f7T5jlCqqdD7my6KwQoJ9BXNhz89HzZGZ-Q/edit?usp=sharing
usppa.org
parayelp.com
facebook.com/groups/paramotor
You can also drop me an email, the address is in the about section of my youtube channel
Flying the XCend for 4 years now. Looking at moving up to an EN-B. Your channel is the best resource for hybrid pg/ppg wings. Do you have any thoughts on considerations for the progression? Is the Vantage a lateral move in your experience?
Thanks Dude!
Happy to help! If you've been enjoying the Xcend, the vantage will launch easier, maneuver better, and fly faster. It's a good pick for more speed and better handling if you also want to paraglide with it. If you're considering a ppg only wing, I would look at something reflexed like a Spyder 3
@@AveryFlies thank you, that is a tremendous help. I do about 50/50 free flight versus powered. I'll start testing out wings and see where it takes me. Plan on setting up vantage 3 and epic 2 test flights.
@@wardified8566 you might also try the BGD echo, the lighter version of the epic. It's more similar to the vantage in weight and ease of launch
I have a paragliding wing for sale in really good shape .as far as I knew never flown. My uncle passed prior to using it
Sorry to hear that. I would recommend posting to a paramotor Facebook group to get some info on the make/model and value
I heard you say Yadkinville LZ
Did you mean yadkinville NC
If yes please where is the place because I live in Clemmons near yadkinville and I paraglide.
Your reply would be highly appreciated.
Yes, yadkinville NC, I fly from several spots in Davie/Iredell/Yadkin counties. I am not at liberty to freely share my flying spots since they are all on private property, but you can send me an email and we can chat about it. Note they are all flat, I have no spots that are suitable for free flight launches or tows. My email address is in the about section of this channel.
The sudden rise in perceived compression was no doubt due to the oil bath you had given the piston rings. See if you can purchase rings that actually overlap. They make them for cars.
You’re going to see your best performance by having a higher compression ratio, larger carburetor, and better exhaust.
Other viewers have mentioned that as well. everyone in the RC community swears these rings are as good as it gets though, and it does fly, so that's where I'm leaving them.
@@AveryFlies thanks for the response. I’m watching you fly right now!
Well done!!
I felt sick looking at the power lines 😲 maybe find a beach early in the morning? Good vid though 👍😁
Thanks! I live a long way from the beach. There are trees all along those power lines when I come along to land, if I clear the trees I clear the lines. Not too bad, the land owner is very generous and it's a beautiful spot so I will be using it for a long time yet
really cool
Yadkinville, NC? I'm in King...
Small world! I also fly up in pinnacle, and my parents are in Tobaccoville! If you're interested in paramotors, we should meet up sometime!
@@AveryFlies Love to. DM me your email or cell and I'll drop you a text. I have a hang glider that I'm mounting on a trike unit. Would like to investigate / learn about PPG. My buddy has a strip at the Jomeokee campground in Pinnacle and used to do PPG, has a ultralight now. Look forward to meeting you.
@@ruxpin76 Jomeokee is where I fly! 🤣 Shoot me an email: opengauge@gmail.com
Great video!!!!!
I've seen pther videos about this parmpotor and most of the buyers fly it out of the box with no upgrades. Why didn't yours take you of the ground out of the box?
Is it diferent than other DLE paramotors?
I was thinking on buying one, but after seeing your video Im not so sure
I tried to fly it stock, see the first 30 seconds of the video... My propeller was crap.
If I had changed the prop it would've flown stock. I didn't know the prop was the problem at first and went to engine tweaking. If you buy one, don't get it with the propeller and source your own.
@@AveryFlies Thank you very much for your answer ;)
Always!
You kept focusing on RPMs, which is okay until you changed the prop. But just because a different prop goes to a higher RPM doesn't mean you gained anything. In fact, it could actually be worse. What you really need to measure is THRUST, because that's what matters. Also, going to an expansion pipe without rejetting the carbs could run you dangerously lean. Usually a performance pipe requires richer jetting. Lessons from my old jet ski days! 🙂
All true. Since the prop was close to the same area and (supposedly) similar pitch, the new prop did pick up a lot of thrust.
For the carb, it's just a little hi-low Walbro. No jets to change, but I did richen it 1/4 turn.
@@AveryFlies I have a lot of experience with Powered Parachutes (and hence, props and engines). Have been flying them for 24 years and have literally owned dozens. Props can make a HUGE difference. Even props that are supposedly the same pitch can vary greatly (because of their design). The key to optimal performance is to first find out at what RPM your engine makes its peak horsepower. Most make their peak hp well before the "max rpm" and in fact tail off between "peak" and "max". Then, you want to select a prop that is pitched to max your engine out where it is making it's peak amount of horsepower. That should give you the maximum amount of thrust. I'll also point out that there is a direct correlation between your engine speed and your EGT (exhaust gas temperature). If you are under-propped (RPM too high at max throttle) then your exhaust gas temps will soar (which can melt pistons). We run EGT gages on our powerchute engines, and if my EGT is running too high (with the carb properly jetted), adding a little pitch to the prop (we run adjustable pitch props) will bring the EGT down.
Anyway, very interesting video, and it was neat to see that you got it in the air. Yes, tuned pipes can add a LOT of horsepower. I bet if you went with a slightly taller pitch on your prop (now that you have the extra hp to push it) you would get even MORE thrust. (when the jet ski guys add a tuned pipe, they always add a higher pitched impeller to take advantage of the extra hp). Good luck and keep flying!
RPM does not correlate to thrust, higher RPM on proped engines can actually equal less thrust.
@@dracolyth yyyyes,...at a certain mach number of tip speed... but I am not hitting that. You can read through my previous 5-10 replies on this subject. I welcome you to do the math on a 32" prop spinning at 6000 RPM. It's less than the performance-robbing mach 0.92.
I was actually thinking the same thing. The higher rpm prop may have more quick torque, but will sacrifice thrust. Went through this on a boat as well.
Bro I lik this! I fly a WS Trike. I’m in the Buffalo area.. where is your location? Great landing! new sub here! Great stuff!
Thanks! I'm in mid-western North Carolina
Thanks for the experiment and reporting! What's the fuel economy on this bad boy?
About a gallon an hour. Nothing out of the ordinary. It would be far lower if I could get a prop redrive and spin a more efficient blade.
It is a pity that you do not have the automatic titles option activated in the video, it is very easy to activate it, I was very interested in this video but being Spanish and not knowing English I do not understand it, I have flown a paramotor for 25 years and thousands of hours with a 68cm diameter propeller, which is why I was very interested in the video. A big greeting.
Sorry to hear that, I will turn them on if I can figure it out.
omg I've inadvertently purchased counterfeit items from Ali before, but none of them had the potential to kill me just because they were fake! Hopefully you got the real thing :)
Well it flies, so I think so
Awesome. What fuel mix does it run?
I'm running 32:1, pretty rich, but that's what the manufacturer recommended
How about a jet powered one now?
Way too expensive!
brill! well done!
Great video. Want one of those myself but at 200lbs don’t if it would work. Any idea what kind of thrust it has after the modifications?
I don't have a way of measuring it, sorry. The falcon propeller says it should be about 90 lbs of thrust. It's enough for me, but I wouldn't consider it if you weigh over 180
A diet could work😉
Thanks for the info. Like the diet idea, but I am too lazy. Lol.
I almost can’t stop myself from buying one for my son to teach him to fly on I was gonna try and rc engine anyway. Rewatching it with him now haha
Please be careful! There are some serious problems that need to be addressed before flying this! Watch my video here: ua-cam.com/video/bsOynmKp0KA/v-deo.html
@@AveryFlies probably just gonna irresponsibility impulse buy it and just send it based off this one video And blame you if something goes wrong, I mean I did watch a 10 minute video on UA-cam so it’s gotta be fine! Haha lol jk
But really I appreciate the advice I definitely won’t be letting my son fly something I wouldn’t fly. Since I stated flying I’ve wanted to share the sky’s with my son this is an idea years in the making and won’t happen for awhile but now I know exactly where to start.
@@nedmacallen please don't sue me ahaha 🤣
wondering what was your takeoff weight with that 28 wing?
I weigh 165, the motor with fuel is 40, I guess the wing is about 15? So 220lbs/100kgs. I am underweight for sure, but it flew easier that way
So cool
A good paramotor for flying in thermals! Can you tell me where you bought the exhaust system?
I found him here on UA-cam, looked him up on Facebook, and dropped him a message. This is his business page, if you scroll on a bit you can find the listing for the exhaust for sale. facebook.com/Dle170-Paramotor-Thailand-104153761733715/
@@AveryFlies Thanks a lot for your answer! Another question: what specific propeller was used?
@@АлександрАвдюшев-й3ъ XOAR PJT-P 32x12 Carbon Fiber RC... www.amazon.com/dp/B07BQW685Y?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
Sir thank you for the research,where can i buy that propeller?
Propeller is available here: amzn.to/3aYDEgO
Make sure you watch my other videos on this unit addressing the problems it has
Best wire the new expansion chamber and muffler to the frame so if it cracks it doesn’t go rearward into the prop!
Good point. I'd probably need to weld on small tabs to tie wire to. It's all one piece, unlike a moster exhaust it doesn't have spring loaded joints. I feel like the fact the exhaust system is only attached at the engine block means it moves with the motor and has a lower chance of cracking. I will look into wiring though, you have a good point.
Superb
Glad you liked it!
Awsome video
I'm curious what camera setup you use from the wing-down view.
Thanks.
GoPro Hero 8 Black with a SnapMount magnetic mount. The back plate of the mount goes inside the last cell of the wing, and the camera attaches to the plate magnetically through the bottom fabric surface.
Awesome
Did you time the blade mounting with top dead center I haven't gotten all the way through the video yet
I did not, no. I saw no reference of that in the manual for the engine or the forums I browsed
Wait so you just ordered a ring and installed it without squaring it in the bore to measure your ring gap? 😄
Yes. The Bowman rings I used are sold as a drop-in, no gap ring. All the RC guys swear by them in the DLE series of engines. Runs great, sue me. (Actually don't sue me, I have no money)
@@AveryFlies that's bonkers.
Next build, if you get a little more granular about it I'm sure you'll have even better results. Very cool video. Paragliding seems amazing.
@@courier11sec Thanks, I strive to be bonkers
How bout parts? Unique carburetor? Time to get them? Thx
DLE170 parts are super cheap. It uses a Walbro carb. Parts can be bought from a hobby store, since it is an RC airplane engine. The crankshaft with both connecting rods is less than $200, for example.
Nice! Would love to have you make one for me!
Well, I didn't make it from scratch, I bought it from aliexpress and simply assembled it. I'd be happy to assemble (and safety check) one for you if you're near me in NC, though
So how much did the mods cost and what was the time investment to get this off the ground? I bet you ended up spending more than a good used unit would end up costing.
The exhaust and prop brought the total with tax and shipping to around $3200. Maybe 3-4 hours worth of tweaks and upgrades. I browse the classifieds regularly, I haven't seen an atom80 powered unit for that cheap.
Since it was running rich lean it out a lil bit that will make a difference in rpm
Are the propellers opposite pitch?
If I understand you correctly, yes. The DLE170 spins counter-clockwise, so this needed a pusher propeller that is reverse pitch from the typical dle170 prop
@@AveryFlies oh, okay. I thought I was going cross eyed
I always would be worrying about how well the frame was constructed and the materials used, tensile strength of the metal and so forth. It did look like a lot of fun and super lightweight.
It's all aluminum, though I can't speak to what grade, oval shaped frame and hoop sections with solid bar crossmembers. The bars are 1.5"x0.25" or so. The oval tubing is about 1/8" wall thickness and about 1.5"x0.75". The welds look solid, I'm no welder but there's no cracks, missed spots, or messy grinder work. At the end of the day the hardest thing it's doing is supporting me from 4 points, and it is definitely strong enough to do that. I have sat on the assembled hoop with no problem.
You might like my recent video, where I sit on the hoop of both paramotors. It is built very well. ua-cam.com/video/TnuleStJDhU/v-deo.html
How works the reserve parachute ? Do you have one ? Link pls
I did not have a reserve in this video, but I do have a front mount reserve that I use on this frame now. It is an Apco mayday 18.
This looks like a kids version. Im 230 pounds and I would need a moster 185+. Im sure you've heard of Tucker Gott UA-cam channel. Hope you didn't skip on a wing. I've been thinking about getting into this sport. Looks absolutely fun.
Is definitely a small motor for a small person. Of course I know tucker, I bought my wing from him. You would probably want a moster 185, Thor 190, or Polini 202 or similar.
@@AveryFlies that's awesome bro. Also great video. I appreciate the response. I don't know him personally but ran into a video. Im a Aviation Mechanic stationed in Atlanta. This seems the cheapest way without spending a fortune for a plane or mosquito helicopter. Thanks again man.
@@lancedooley7558 it is the most affordable heavier than air form of flight, and it's very freeing. Find an instructor and get up there, you'll love it!
@@AveryFlies you've just earn a subscriber my friend. Keep flying. I will be soon. 😁😎
So…. After changing the piston rings, what was the ring end gap…?
The gap is what the manufacturer made them. These rings are purpose built for this engine, they are widely regarded in the RC world as a high quality, drop-in ring set. I trust whatever gap was made with these rings given the reputation of the company making them. I will be sure to measure the gap if I have to disassemble then engine in the future though.
Im gonsa buy one and get a wing and fly man
If you've never flown a paramotor please don't buy this as your first paramotor. It's not good, and unless you put a lot of work into it, in stock form it's dangerous.
Do you know what the pitch was on the original 32" propeller?
They didn't specify. The blades themselves were thicker but I couldn't notice a difference in pitch. There clearly was a difference though, changing the prop made a huge increase in thrust.
@@AveryFlies Thanks- yes, the first prop was way out of the power band of the motor.
What would the weight limit be, with the upgrades?
Probably still 160 or less. That made it flyable for me, at 165.