I've been asked FOR YEARS to do a WC3 Heroes tier list... Here it is.
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- Опубліковано 20 тра 2024
- I've been asked FOR YEARS to do a WC3 Heroes tier list... Here is it. (Live on 15-April-2024)
Looking for the Level 10 Warden game mentioned at 42:03?, here it is: • [LEGENDARY] NEVER. GIV...
Catch me live all days of the week at: / grubby
Join my community on / discord
00:00:00 Intro
00:01:00 Blademaster
00:03:16 Farseer
00:07:13 Tauren Chieftain
00:11:08 Shadow Hunter
00:18:30 CryptLord
00:21:19 Lich
00:25:00 Death Knight
00:27:23 Dreadlord
00:29:35 Demon Hunter
00:31:55 Keeper Of The Grove
00:35:27 Warden
00:38:41 Priestess Of The Moon
00:42:23 Paladin
00:45:40 Bloodmage
00:51:52 Mountain King
00:54:00 Archmage
00:58:09 About Tavern Heroes
01:04:08 Beastmaster
01:06:30 Alchemist
01:09:26 Goblin Tinker
01:13:23 Firelord
01:14:50 Naga Sea Witch
01:19:48 Pandaren Brewmaster
01:23:33 Dark Ranger
01:26:12 PitLord
#GrubbyTalks #Thoughts #Tierlist #WC3 #Heroes - Розваги
I don't even play the game but I need that information
same😂 i prefer watching than playing nowadays
I don’t play either but I watched the whole thing lol
We have all installed the game after watching Grubby, thinking we can execute 1% of what he is doing. Then as soon as a fight happens, you completely freak out, A click in your whole army and get deleted while you're trying to just find and select your hero. Apm at 1 per day.
I'll stick to watching Grubby thank you very much.
@@anbuhyuga8299 Bruh, few years ago I went to internet caffee to play some vidya with friends. WC3 was chosed. I thought I had it since I played it my entire childhood. I got erased by a guy who said he played it a few times.
Hear hear
To this day I find it funny that Priestess' picture shows her Tiger instead of the Priestess herself. 😸
I realized this today lol.
And that tiger is just a glorified horse. It doesn't do anything. No ability linked to it at all.
She IS the tiger, just happens to let a night elf archer ride her for extra dps =)))))
@@alexpopescu8137 you know too much... (casts shadow strike)
To this day
Not me watching this instead of sleeping even though i last played this game a decade ago
I haven't played WC once, yet i still watch these videos, something very soothing about them 😅
same bro, and i enjoyed it
@@Deceit-hx7ey Because grubby speaking about his craft is ASMR
Same, except two decades ago xD
Exactly this, why is this so interesting that u ruin my sleep over this :D
This video is perfect to picture how good the hero protraits are great. So much personalities with so few pixels. Great artworks!
💯
The only one I can complain about is Priestess of the Moon.
Unless you think the tiger is the hero and the priestess is just an accessory.
@@kevingriffith6011well, it is 😅
@@zurcburc Clearly the modders need to get out there and give the priestess a tiger head and put a giant night elf head on the tiger.
@@kevingriffith6011 Well when you look at it from a Kid's point of view, that's the best part of it. I picked PotM every time because cool pretty Tiger haha
If I saw a Sylvanas clone, I would've passed
Grubby, you didnt mentioned one of the most important features of hex, as well, it changes armor type of unit to medium. So it takes additional damage from normal and 100% from spells and magic.
And evasion is disabled, right? At least is how it works in Dota. Haha
I... Never knew this
This is not true unless it's been changed recently in Reforged. Heroes retained hero armor in hex when I used to play.
I dont think it's a right feature
I don't play WC3 since many years now. But this game was just a bit part of my childhood and... I listened 1 hour straight even if it's kind of useless. I just loved to hear your explanations about so much things I loved back in the days. Nostalgia is so strong...
Just come back :)
-"Pitlord was a mistake"
Grubby Miyazaki
"RaRa cleave, then they leave" -Grub'Tsu, Art of Warcraft.
So out of context lol
Noooo, they're one of my favorites! :'(
Pitlord did nothing wrong :((((((
I appreciate the historical background for each hero. I didn't realize they changed so much since 2003! Thank you!
I also super enjoyed as a dota wc3 player that I could intuit a lot of what he was saying about heroes before he said it. Dota has a similar incredibly interesting history with balancing and many of these abilities are present in some form on various dota heroes.
You actually were right the first time. Cleave damage ignores armor entirely. You can see this against knights, which have very high armor. The pit lord will often be doing more damage to the knights that are cleaved than the one he is actually attacking
lol the first time means is this his first correct statement?
which is also the reason stacking battle furys and attacking everything but the main target was a thing in original dota iirc
I guess the rationale is that the cleaved damage is the one dealt to the first unit, that is, after that one is reduced by that first unit armor, right ? Aka, to not be reduced twice by armor. Or the cleave damage is its base damage ?
@@Winnetou17 That's how you would intuitively think it would work, but I've tested it in the past and the cleave damage is based on the damage before reduction from armor. Cleave level 3 does 90% damage, so as long as the unit you're hitting has more than 10% damage reduction from armor, you're actually doing more damage to the cleaved units than the main one
Example, with simplified values for clarity:
Pit Lord is doing 100 dmg, with level 3 cleave (90%)
PL hits a knight that has 5 armor. Let's say that provides 20% dmg reduction
3 other knights are within cleave range of the first knight
The first knight will take 80 dmg, and the other 3 will take 90 dmg
@@bryansweeney3077 Come to think of it, if it was as I said it in the previous post, you couldn't have done more damage to those behind, that was a brain fart on my part.
Thanks for the info. I remember now from Sven too from DotA :))
It is also really interesting because, like your tier list points out, Elf heroes really aren't that strong. You almost always have to go DH to try and shut down the enemy hero instead. But the race is entirely held up by the strength of Staff of Preservation. Staff makes it so ridiculously hard to get a pick and basically acts like a pseudo hero ability. Human also gets a Staff, but way later with a much longer cooldown and root.
Something I think is really broken and underutilized, is picking up items from other races in team games. Staff on Orc is broken stupid, but you never even really think about running over to the Elf to pick it up. You can slap Orb of Corruption on your Shadow Hunter for a ridiculous hero killer. Or power creep with Salve, although your Orc will probably get big mad if you keep buying their stock. I remember making a 4v4 strat of just building Orc shops in my ally bases to supply them with fast expansions and healing salves, and business was boomin'.
Why is that for the shadow hunter ? Do you mean hex change the armor type and the orb reduces it ?
18:18 It got changed back in 2011 with patch 1.25b: "Hex will no longer disable mana or health regeneration of Heroes."
46:45 "The moment you are starting to get su**ed... the su***ing continues for some time" getting me a bit flustered Grubby
Holy shit! That story at the end was top notch. People who dont watch all the way through are gonna miss such a gem.
I have not been asking or waiting for this, but its about time we got a hero tier list from the lord of Warcraft. Now we also need a map and unit tier list. Very nice. This is so much more than just ranking heroes, this is like a tutorial for beginners and at the same time so much information for vetaran players.
8:56 "Endurance aura effects every unit around him, fr fr, no cap"
End aura is bussin' making me look mid
enduranceauramaxxing ngl
Panda is the best neutral hero evasion and critical
On god.
I think Grubby is not taking into account that the reasons he gives for feral spirit S rank are all much more micro intensive than any other S ranked hero. The early game that apm is affordable, but less so as the game progresses.
Hard to put FS and AM side by side and conclude they should be the same rank.
"breakers, sorcerers, and priests, and those three units just happen to be among the best in the human race"
Not one human in them haha
"Once again, it's up to the elves"
*Garithos noise intensified*
"humans" have 3 human units, 3 dwarfs, 4 elves, and 2 machines that should also count as dwarfs. Why do we call them humans?
@@marcinkusmierzak991 It's a carryover from WC1 and WC2. The same way "Orc" has a bunch of other races as The Horde. But they're Orc as a race in WC3.
@@weirdcoincollectionin russian localisation 2004 orc is "Horde" and human is "alliance ", although the translation is not accurate like Abomination called just butcher, it was old age of goofy translators but it made fun cringe moments for us pirates like Star wars kotor or gta sa earliest localisations
Cryptlord was my favorite hero. I always thought it was amazing that in the middle of a fight he could use his swarm heal and be ready up for another fight. Kinda sad that he ended up that low. :(
Tbf, it's mostly due to Crypt Lord being an Undead hero, meaning that its competition is ridiculously stacked. The general consensus for CL is that it's a good hero fighting for the hero slot against amazing heroes (because Lich and Death Knight are cracked).
At least it's a better solo hero than Lich and most mercenaries
Aww, now I'm sad on your behalf and also recognize myself a bit. I always tried going either Crypt Lord or Dreadlord first, as I think both of them are cooler than the Lich and certainly than the rather generic Death Knight. Leave it to pro players to stomp on the fun of mere mortals😅 I suppose that the consolation is that at lower ranks, you can probably do a great many unorthodox things and still get away with it, as what's optimal in pro play is so far removed from casual play that it is like two different worlds.
Indubitably
17:45 I think Fly yesterday, against Hawk, skipped Reincarnation, and went for 3 point in Aura. He got so fast and Hawk didn't even bother to attack TC, not sure if he realized that Fly went for 3/3 skills.
I mean, not attacking late game TC is not the strangest thing, even without reincarnation
I wouldn't put Crypt Lord at the bottom, he synergizes brilliantly with the other undead heroes. Cast death pact or dark ritual on a beetle and you get a lot of health/mana back, much more than a skeleton would give, and without wasting a unit that costs gold and wood resources. Also the dreadlord vampiric aura buffs beetles and you can use them to surround/trap enemy heroes with sleep. Also you can put him out in front of your army and let the enemy break themselves on his spiked carapace while you toss death coils on him and buff him and his units with unholy aura. He gives you an undead tank that death knight can actually heal, which is sorely needed prior to abominations.
Agree.
He's outclassed by the DK/Lich bromance, for sure, but he's got some game. Early aggression via beetles and his tankiness, deals fantastic damage with his ult in longer games, and is absurdly tanky if he can get going.
You forgot to mention for Blood Mage that his Siphon Mana can be used on friendly Units AND Heroes. And when you do that, instead of Blood Mage sucking their mana, he transfers his own mana to the friendly unit/hero. Which is extremely useful when your Paladin runs out of mana for example. And Blood Mage can afford to sacrifice his mana, cause he can steal it from enemies again, because of no real cooldown and cost.
One of the great things about you Grubby is how well formulated and thought out comments and ideas are. I might have not played ladder W3 for at least 10-20 years, but I really do enjoy your explanations and context.
Grubby's tier list actually makes a lot of sense. S = indispensable. A = very strong, usually best among options. B = makes important but non-critical contributions. C = highly situational. D = not ideal even in their supposed niche.
he s only wrong about dh
@@crymaker9628
DH is S, isn't it??
So FS should be A, then.
@@staceygram5555FS?
Appreciate the lesson. In-between the tier list you're still getting all the knowledge.
The joy and utter fulfillment on that face from the 2019 clips 😀
I’ve seen so many hero tier list I didn’t think I’d enjoy this… now I need more! Give us HOTS hero tier list Grub! ❤
Really helps that this is probably the most well presented and most informative wc3 hero list I've seen, clearly done by someone with both extensive top level experience and a nice presentation style. I've tried looking up wc3 hero lists before and the others just dont do it for me. More pls lord grubs! Unit tier list, campaign missions tier list...anything
Ultras would be under D
This was a fun video! And surprisingly educational about WC3, too.
I was never good at RTS but I remember watching a lot of the pro scene back in the day, including your games, and I don't follow the game now but a video like this is still super interesting to me haha. Glad it popped up on my feed.
Don't be afraid , come with us on a journey, we almost always lose 50:50, I just came to aoe4.
Not playing is passive ,like our parents, feel the adrenaline , feel life again ,don't be contempt , play ,win ,loose ,feel the excitement.
I am still impressed by how much you know about the game and I love hearing you basically ramble and analyze all that information. I dont even play this game yet I cant stop watching your videos!
Love this video - I honestly love your breakdown of the heroes and even though I played this 15 years ago, I'm seriously considering trying this again - Thanks Grubby.
I had to look up a video showcasing shadow hunter because i realized ive never seen big bad voodoo ever
Pitlord is bugged btw his rain of fire damage values are wrong when you check it in the editor which is why its weak no matter what rank it is
When you do some quick math and make the changes it works like its stated lol
Many moons have I waited for this moment
*Night elf music starts playing loudly*
I havent played W3 in like 10 years but I needed this tier list in my life nway.
Great Video.
I didn't know about the Hex effects like denying exp and mana regen.... incredible.
I need practice in RTS games in general but i have a passionate love for the genre, wc3 and good, applicable knowledge just watching you play and talk so keenly about your strategies and reasonings for things.
You bet your sweet hiney im going to enjoy watching this list and educated guessing where heroes would rank!
Says Blood Mage is the most underrated hero, then immediately proceeds to underrate Blood Mage :D pretty much agree with all the other placements (Orc heroes imba).
AM/Beastmaster vs Orc brought back some good memories haha, it was my bread and butter back in the day.
I think the problem with BM is not so much how he is as a hero, but how important AM is to get past the early game. There are a few heroes like that where they aren't bad, but you can't realistically use them because other heroes are forced choices. Much like the DK for UD, HU kind of need AM to remain competitive at a high level.
If they allowed DK heal not friendly undeads, but friendly targets - that would be so much fun. For undeads.
Seen some people in the stream chat commenting about how in depth and how long this video is gonna take to make. GOOD, could listen to this kinda info all day lol
TC is my favorite hero
Oh yeah the shockwave is the best❤❤❤
Maaan, my thoughts are all about the same like yours!
WC3 is my childhood game, I used to suck and even now.
Even that I don't play it anymore, I do enjoy your wc3 content!
Havent played the game since a year after the expansion release, but i still love watching your vids. Keep it up:)
loving the list, thanks!
Really good editing on this one. Had to dig to find it though
I've been dying for this video for like 10 years, thanks so much Grubster! Would love to see the ultimates tier list next! =)
Grubby, I'm really happy to see this channel taking off. Your positivity and insights make all of your videos, regardless of topic, a joy to listen to!
The background music added in this video is very appreciated. The Warcraft III music is underrated. Nice to have music to go along with good explanation of the heroes.
Please do a similar unit tier list!!! Loved this grubby
Totally accurate list
1:31:02 you had me chuckle, but this is also why i always followed you since like forever. Authentic, at it, inspring and well mannered. Thanks for being around, Grubby!
I turned this on while working on something. The audio itself was enough to make me want to reinstall the game and make yet another playthrough. Speaks how great the game is. Thank you for the vid Grubby, it is really interesting!
Same! I immediately got an itch to try out all those heroes once again. WC3 is so great that I actually enjoy all heroes. Except BM and DH, from those I get 'Nam flashbacks instead.
I don't think Night Elf having generally weaker heroes is that much of a hot take - the same logic of orc and undead being carried by their heroes is true of night elf being carried by moon wells. That's why they've historically been the race that uses tavern heroes the most. Honestly, it's because of moon wells that neutral heroes aren't a strong as they generally should be in my opinion, you basically have to balance neutral heroes under the pretense that they have access to moon wells.
Grubby, I have been following you since 2005. But only in this in-depth analysis I have been able to fully appreciate your knowledge of the game and how complex WC actually is. Take care m8, you rock!
Grubby, have you ever heard of a custom campaign called To the Bitter End? I swear you should cover this master piece, it is a full game within a game.
Havn´t played War3 a decade yet all these hero icons and spell icons are just so iconic, they live rent free in my mind
Also, tho im not sure how it is in english, but russian localisation is a masterpiece of a kind, I still can immideately remember any unit phrase or even voice, its amazing, hope it was as cool in english
Love this! even though all my heroes (MK,DH, BM) was A tier list. keep up the great work! even though havnt played for 14 years ish, this game is still close to heart.
I remember not 3 years ago, Fly100% went BM + *PL* + SH (unsure on the order of 2nd and 3rd hero) in an Orc mirror against Lyn (I believe?) on Concealed Hill and it was absolutely glorious...!
It was a one-off, no doubt, but in an Orc mirror with mass Raiders and Shamans, a bloodlusted PL with cleave and HoT was a real force of nature and a spectacle to behold.
Azgalore should be in S+ tier unlike regular Pit Lords.
Regular pitlord is ok tbh
The problem is he wasn't made correctly
Check his rain of fire ability and then look at its damage values in the editor
@@zytha2890i don't get it. Explain further.
Azgalor or Assgalore. Not Azgalore.
@@eafesaf6934
The Rain of Fire spell on Pit Lord is mediocre to the point where in most cases it will do comparable damage by just auto attacking with Cleave. Him being a Strength hero also means he can't really spam spells aggressively so in 9/10 situations it's better to save his mana for Howl of Terror (an actually very good spell).
Basically, having a mediocre DoT splash spell on a hero whose auto attack is splash makes the spell large redundant (and less versatile since it locks the Pit Lord in place while only able to rain on a small designated area). Another major issue is that the Doom spell, his Ultimate Ability, is a slow-acting debuff...which can be easily cleansed with Dispel Magic/Purge/Abolish Magic and it having a massively obvious visual indicator also doesn't help hide it. So the result is that, unless you're going against specifically Undead, the Pit Lord functionally only has 1 spell (Howl) and splash melee auto attacks. The amusing thing is that in the WC3 campaign, there's a special Pit Lord in the Reign of Chaos final mission, Azgalor, who has an entirely different spell kit (Shockwave, Thunderclap, Reincarnation, and Earthquake) which is substantially more dangerous because even 20 years ago, Blizzard's devs were aware of how unthreatening the Pit Lord's base kit is.
"I AM HERO AND OBEY" -what i thought the blademaster was saying back then
U telling me that he isnt saying that?
wait what does he say?
@@Sprintspeed10 "I will hear you and obey", I think
My whole life’s a lie
Thank you dearly for this tierlist, very in depth but also straight to the point, i am a NE Warden enjoyer btw
Haven't played W3 in like 10 years, but I'm still very familiar with these heroes (not so much their patch notes) and hearing about them coming from a pro like you is always great content
27:51 also gargoyles, skeletons, beetles, even acolytes, mercenaries and possessed. Dreadlord was clearly designed as fast farmer and support, devs just didn't think about even faster farm strats. Great design on paper, B/C tier in reality.
i also enjoyed the beastmaster/dh aow creep with quilbeast and tinker third with mass master talons
vs orc. that strat was BIG for a long, long time knocking out tons of orcs. i think i've only seen 1 or 2
orcs ever beat it in a big tournament. i think i've seen you beat it once back when you were playin in
WCG Competitively
Caught it ongoing on stream, decided to wait for video. Sweet.
Such a pleasure to watch the whole thing, plus this tier list reminds me of old DotA hero portraits
Started listening to this on vacation while in shower.. FINALLY time to finish it! The moment many of us have been waiting for.
First of all, great list. I can't say I agree with all the choices but that's because the last time I seriously played this game was 20 years ago ao my memory of it is significantly different from what it is now and also because even then, I sucked at the game. Haha.
Your logic and explanations are sound. The ratings are fairly consistent, such that even those who only have a novel understanding of the game can kind of "predict" where you would place a hero (or, more accurately, actually follow your logic through the list ). Since my profession is a iut making cogent and coherent arguments, I greatly appreciate this.
Therefore, secondly, since I'm a massive Borderlands fan and have recently gotten back into it, I have a ton of time for listening to long form podcast style videos.
Hence why I now officially request that you, Grubby, bite the bullet, be one with Purge and make a 3 hour long list ranking all the units for Wc3 in its current incarnation, specifically for 1v1.
And then, should that be too easy for you, maybe best abilities specifically ultimates (like you mentioned). The list could go on but yeah...
Lastly and on a complete tangent, as a fairly big Raid: Shadow Legends fan, I think you'd actually like the game quite a bit because its essentially a team building game where you try to form the best team to beat whichever boss is in front of you.
And now, I realise I've been typing this comment for like 10 minutes in the tropical midday sun and I think a drink of water is probably what my body needs before I melt into a puddle and immediately evaporate, disappearing into thin air.
TLDR: Great list Grubby. Now go play Raid Shadow Legends so you can download my code (in the comments below!!!)😂😂😂
Well justified and analyzed I feel.
However, DH is S tier to me as he offers so much in the game for Night Elfs. If there is no DH, I trust there is at least 50% lesser NE players.
Anyway, just for some fun, Imagine DC comic character skins on the heroes. (expand below to see my list)
Feel free to suggest if you have better ideas or to expand on the list.
- ORC -
Blademaster - Deathstroke
TC- Bane
Far Sear - Lex Luthor
Shadow Hunter - Sinestro
- Night Elfs -
DH - Joker who laughs
KOTG - Swamp Thing
POTM - Artemis
Warden - Batgirl
- Human -
Archmage - Aqua Man (Seahorse Mount haha)
MK - Black Mantra
Paladin - Steel
Bloodmage - Etrigan
- Undead -
Deathknight - Ras Al Ghul
Lich - Mr Freeze
Dreadlord - Scarecrow
CL - Soloman Grundy
I would love to see more of this for each of the races. Either a unit tier list (or spells), or just an in depth description of each races pay styles/strengths/weaknesses/strats/current and past metas. WC3 is a hard game for me to understand with so much going on.
Hey grubby I really felt excited when I saw the video and its so awesome how you explain everything in detail. I just feel confused about DH, how can he have so much good stuff and strenght that he was called superman but hes not S tier in your opinion, it feels always hard playing against him. Maybe its because of the general NE concept but still he has everything, abilities, stats,…
I don't play competitively in WC3 so my ratings of heroes is super different (it's literally all preference) but I really like all the heroes that spawn extra units, and the Crypt Lord in particular is very good for a first hero in my opinion because it gives you 4 permanent bonus units that are fairly powerful at max rank to supplement your army. I know the other spells all have a lot of impact as well but for lower skill players its really nice to have spells that auto cast or do something permanent to have a little less to manage during fights.
I don't know if this changed since the Reforged version, but back then I remember Pitlord's Cleave ability bypassing armour and could actually deal more damage to the secondary targets than the main one if hitting a bunch of high armour targets, which is quite odd
I agree with the list for the most part (aside from minor discrepancies) but there is one thing I have to point out because I just feel like it's way off...
I really think that Demon Hunter & Far Seer need to swap places. I think (being an orc main who uses him constantly) that Grubby slightly over values FS - I understand the value of scouting & wolves harass, but after early game there are just SO many matchups where he has barely any value and just falls off so hard. Chain lightning is relatively weak & has very high mana cost, and once you get a few mins it opponent is just constantly dispelling wolves for free xp (or God forbid you end up in a match up against human with breakers or elves with dryad - wolves just set your mana on fire only to be poofed, can't even cast lightning and you're stuck AAing with a hero that has shit attack).
Meanwhile, Demon Hunter is an absolute menace from the beginning and only gets stronger. Mana Burn is just super oppressive to play against, and even one point in Immo can do some real damage - and of course if you get to 6 Meta is absolutely terrifying.
I really just can't see any possibility that FS = S tier while DH is only A...
Fs is ranged and dh is melee
@@zachariastsampasidis8880 what an incredibly insightful analysis.
But seriously is that it? Because that's not nearly enough to make up the gap for FS.
@@j.l.4054 not everything is complicated. Dh is far more harassable even with moonwells and him being an agility hero
@@zachariastsampasidis8880 so according to you, DH can't be S tier because he's melee... Except Grubby has TC as the best hero in the game, and also has DK in S tier??
I also think you are drastically overstating how easy it is to harass DH considering:
- One of the highest armor classes (might even be #1, don't recall off the top of my head
- Evasion to further mitigate damage
- Easy moonwell healing (I'm not sure why you are so dismissive of this)
And that's not even including the fact that DH has top tier movespeed, AND that enemy heroes are disincentivized to even try to ranged potshot unless they're already OOM since even going to normal attack is going to get them mana burned.
I mean clearly we're gonna just have to agree to disagree here, but I don't think you've made a single argument against DH being S tier that's valid... if you REALLY valued the ranged >>> melee thing that much & wanted to make the case that TC & DK were only A tier as well I could at least understand a consistent position/see the logic, but I don't think you're saying that...
@@j.l.4054 I didn't say he is easily killable. Melee heroes are harder to use early game in general where healing is very limited and every poke matters
I am not underrating him either.
He is indeed better than fs but is also harder to fully and accurately use him compared to poke and wolf spam, even though that drops precipitously
will be nice to see voting on how community sees these heroes in comparison
my heroic tier list:
S mass teleport, transmute, phoenix, infernal, mass resurrection, metamorphosis, doom, darkranger ult
A avatar of vengeance(warden ult), tranquility, earth, wind & fire
B stampede, avatar(mk), locust swarm, starfall
C reincarnation
D earthquake, death & decay, bladestorm, tinker's robo mode
seeing this summary makes me realise even more so just how awesome wc3 is. The development team back in the date was fire.
I'm a sucker for a tier list. I will watch all the WC3 tier lists, lol. Units, Ults, Maps, WC3 players of all time, etc
Last time I play WC3 was like 8 years ago but I need this hour and a half information for my incoming exam. 👍
One spell Idea I could see being a positive for POTM would be to replace searing arrow (which doesn't fit night elf lore anyway they don't catch things on fire) and give her something like enchant weapon. The spell would target units the same way frost armor does, you enchant their weapons to gain the positive effects of magic damage on top of their normal attacks. Each level adds a percentage of the magic damage benefit. Suddenly your projectile army can pierce through heavy armor units like butter.
Back in the day i used to struggle vs undead with human. i either went pala first and bloodmage second or rushed with mass footy and firelord. when your firelord arrives at their base you had 2-3 footy and more on the way. keep the summons alive and you can win on the spot or cripple their eco+creeping speed so much that your knights hit really hard against underlvled heros+no tech.
The BO was farm and barracks first, start building footy as soon as possible and let them run to the tavern in the middle. Time your altar with the timing of the tavern, the moment you can recruit him you do it and go to the UD base. Continue to build footy until you reach 7-8 then upgrade defend, if you win hard keep up the pressure with more footy, otherwise start to tech and stop footy production. Dont leave the UD to themself so they can creep, if they tech go for their akolytes. Most important part is to not let the UD tech or slow down their tech and dont lose footy. At home you build an aracne vault and tech for fast knights.
Would love to see you play this style.
Nice list with an in-depth explanation on each heroes capabilities and shortcomings.
In my opinion, there should be an SS tier where AM and DK should be placed. Those 2 are just way above the rest.
Such in-depth analysis! This requires absolute understanding of the game. Your explanation is much better than many professors in the universities. Or maybe, many professors do not have full understanding of the field they are in. 😄😄😄
Mercenary tier list next!
Also Alchemist and Paladin are a fun duo.
This might be my second most anticipated movie release of 2024, next to pannenkoek's nearly 4 hour long video about walls in Super Mario 64.
I won so many games with my orc farseer and 3 grunts rush at first midnight back in the day. Then tinker came out and I won even more with the same strat in 2v2 using factory.
I would like to see you play a showmatch as Orc against a Human player, but the heroes of the races are switched, so you get Human heroes at the altar and the Human gets Orc heroes. This would be a fun way to test the relative strength of the races' heroes.
I played few games of Warcraft 3 skirmish. I had invented Paladin build for myself where I would prioritize armor and healing. However, I would go for Priests to create sturdy backline. Commenters also said that Paladin should go with priests. I do not know how good it is at the very top, but it was rock solid strategy for me to start playing with.
Dreadlord used to be a bit wacky, true, but at the moment he's a staple vs Hu. Wrecks workshops much better than panda, can be coiled. Placing him behind tinker just doesn't feel right. I beieve he's a solid B
I love this tierlist video grub. I think wc3 biggest issue is the hard accessability. Very complicated game to get into😊
A lot of heroes are differently ranked in situations. A lot changes from 1v1 to 3v3 to FFA. For example, POtM with mass archers and one bear to roar has insane damage. With those buffs, 1 archer does MORE DPS than a cryptlord, while having 2/3 the space and more range. It typically ends up in 3v3, an archer army with POtM will do double DPS that of other ranged armies. It's far too much damage to compensate for and almost a guaranteed win. 3v3 is very crowded so you will never worry bout your archer army getting blitzed. They're always in the back with superior range.
Similarly in large games, melee heroes suffer greatly. They often die too fast and barely get off abilities.
That's quite amazing. I didn't think they were so complex. Btw would you include in that tier list custom/unique heroes like Garithos etc?
Priestess of the Moon
:-)
Thanks Grubby. Your people demands a part II with ultimates. Except for a very few, they're so mana expensive that i'd often skip them for basic ability
Idk man. My bottom 50 ranked strat of solo TC destroying everyone works just fine! 😂😂
Any chance we can have a tier list for items ? The ones from the shop and also the drops from the creeps camps, that would be awesome ! Thanks for the video
I didn't know about a lot of warcraft 3 mechanics for years until Dota 2 forced me to learn them. There's both a lot more transparency and written or video based word of mouth about Dota 2 mechanics and maybe not so much I've seen about the same things in War3. I couldn't tell you what the base attack times for all the heroes in War3 are, and I'm only now learning that Banish dispels Ensnare. Which makes some logical sense, since you're a ghost and you slip through the net, but maybe not a ton of mechanical sense.
@GrubbyTalks When you eventually do your GrubbyTalks video regarding attack/armor upgrade design philosophy in different games, can you also go into how there's a vast difference in how impactful they are due to the what base attack developers choose and the how it can impact break points?
For example, AoE2 upgrades being way stronger than WC3 ones due to the lower base attack values (for example, getting +1 armor for AoE2 skirmishers means an effective 50% damage reduction against archers who have +1 attack).
A few of the low rank are strong in FFA such as Dreadlord
Likewise some of the high ranked 1 vs 1 are so so in FFA such as DK.
Happy got Crypt Lord nerfed after Reforged and he never came back 😢 I still play him at 5k because I’m Kinky! Oblivion awaits!
OBLIVION AWAITS!
I feel like Blood Mage is the most underrated hero. Maybe 20 years later he will be meta when people will understand how to play him
You're one of the few people who can do this properly, so I really wish you would do a breakdown of the lineal iteration of the heroes- how much change they made to the meta at the time. Perhaps it didn't make that much difference to the meta because of other meta changes.. but if it did, I think that would make for great content.
I used to play Frozen throne with my friend in.. 2005/6, and I always beat him. Again in 08/09 with another friend.. we hadn't played before but I had confidence because I crushed my first friend.
this new friend mentioned he played and beat people on the ladder, and I remember him mentioning Grubby, though I had no idea who you were. We played a game for $50 and he beat me in the first 10 minutes. I had no clue about unit micro at all. I got completely squashed.
LOL he was getting good in secret and you didn't realize XD
@@GrubbyTalks 😂No, my second friend in 08/9 was different person than in 05/06.. we had never played WC3 before our first and only game- he destroyed me. We played SC Brood War once and I cheesed him with a dark templar rush. He is a professional poker player in Australia, and he told me he was in the top 3 on the WC3 ladder at one point, between 07/09, if I remember correctly.
Bro i also don't play this game but I know everything about it just watching your videos and soaking all like I would play this game every day. You're a hero bro thanks !