Watch this before buying a used Atlas N-scale diesel locomotive - Trains with Shane Ep23
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- Опубліковано 10 вер 2024
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Did you see my video about what to watch out for when buying used Bachmann N scale diesel locomotives? Well they are not the only ones that I recommend going in with a little pre knowledge. Here we go over Atlas. Yes Atlas! They started from some pretty shaky beginnings with, honestly, some pretty horrible offerings in N scale. But yet today they make some of the best and well respected model railroad products in several scales. Care to find out how they got here? Sit down and let Uncle Shane tell at least part of the story!
As a companion to this video don't forget to check out what I consider to be the greatest N scale reference on the internet, Spookshow! (I'm not affiliated with the website in any way other than being a fan of it)
www.spookshow.net/
/ i_saw_it_online
Video has over 2000 views in 20 days!!! That is awesome! You all rock!
Bought a number of Atlas/Kato locos back in late 90s and recently on eBay and have had wonderful results for painting or repainting and love them all. I don’t do DCC just DC. I have a few of the newer Chinese GP7s and they work great as well! Your right any Atlas/Kato loco you can get for $30 to $40 is a good investment. Thanks and take care!
Thanks EC! Kato and Atlas make up the majority of my roster. And i'd say at least half of my Atlas locomotives were made by Kato. They're good stuff!
Good line-up of different Atlas locomotives. I have dealt with Steve from Atlas and he is brilliant when it comes down to parts or body shells and as for the motor squealing it is because the bearing are dirty or dried out you just need to spray CRC into the motor it will flush out any crap inside it and then the motor should run perfectly fine try it if you have this issue cheers
Atlas began making their own in the late 90’s. Prior to that was their locos with Kato. They were great running with flywheels, a first in N scale. But they stretched some of the bodies to fit the mechanism rendering them out of scale. In the late 90’s atlas began producing their own locomotives, truer to scale, with split frames, flywheels and improved detail. Over the last 20 years Atlas has basically used the same design and modified the frames to allow DCC decoders. I have some where the frames are stamped with 1997 dates on them. This speaks to the strength and reliability of this design over 20 years later. Nice video, thanks
My first good running engine was the RS3. I still have it it’s been 30 years, and I still like it!
Same. My first good N scale engine was an old Atlas/Kato RS3. The Seaboard Coastline one I fix in a previous video.
Thank you for the great advice. I have a lot of older Atlas Bachman etc. units that do run well. I have been an N Scaler for about 45 years of so. Started with Marklin ho back in the sixties. N scale has been total enjoyment for me especially with the newer equipment that’s out there. Keep up the good work and I look forward to your next videos. Otto
Thanks Otto! I agree anything that has been made within the last 10 years or so is generally pretty good. I'm surprised at how far Bachmann has stepped up their game. I've got a pair of newer GP40's that are VERY good runners. And pretty much anything by Atlas from the Kato era to today is great as well.
Kato went there own way using atlas to test the waters. they introduced their landmark GP38-2
Yep.
On some of those older Kato and Atlas locos, microtrains made a pilot plug to custom fit into open pilots and the couplers and pilots look and function much better.
I have a U-Boat that I got from a friend and he had fitted one of those conversions. And I think I have a few others that have it as well. It's a pretty cool conversion. You have to cut the draft gear boxes off of the trucks.
re the atlas roco gp9. they were released also as gp30 and f9. also e7 shared common parts. they were state of the art when they came out. one recommendation when you service that gp9 have some epoxy handy. common problem is that the plastic gears shrank over time. they still ran but wheels would slip on the shaft
Shane, I found your channel today. I pulled up this video to see what you had to say about the Atlas product. 3/4 through the video I subbed. This has to be the most in depth to the point review of the history of beware before you buy and to know what you are looking at. I've been in N scale for 20 yrs..and have never until now seen this sort of comprehensive quality/value information in one video. I have found many of the issues that you speak of with the early stuff to be spot on as you say. Looking forward to checking out more of your videos. Thanks for sharing the wealth of info.
I'm glad you enjoyed it! It's not a complete rundown as it varies a tiny bit from on locomotive line to another. But it's a pretty good generational representation I think. I may put one together for Kato as well as i've got plenty of their stuff spanning the decades as well.
@@Trains-With-Shane that would be great.. I clicked the bell..so, I'll see what new stuff come up.. thanks again for sharing this wealth of information.
Bachman actually has some good stuff everyone thinks it’s starter kit stuff but I’ve found some pretty good rolling stock and locomotives from them.
I think i've got a similar Bachmann video somewhere where I talk about that same thing. Their new stuff is pretty good. I've got a small handful of their locomotives in DC and DCC flavors. Their rolling stock has always been pretty decent.
Those newer Bachmann scale width hood retooled GP40 looks and runs nice. Those have that split frame halves and a similar drive system to newer atlas and Kato stuff. No contact strips though, but the light leds stand upright between the frame halves. The only thing I don't care for is those little closed motors that are the size of a pencil eraser, but otherwise they look and run good.
You should check out my my "watch this before buying a used Bachmann" video. 😉 I think I go through most of that. Bachmann N scale stuff started out pretty good back in the metal truck gear era, then got really bad with the white nylon gears, then less bad with the black plastic gears, and by the time you were getting Spectrum models with black plastic gears they were pretty good. And Bachmann has continued to improve their stuff over the last ~15 years to actually be quite decent in both HO and N scale. Man their HO stuff though, early on up through the 90's, was ALL garbage.
@@Trains-With-Shane that's true. I model in both H.O. and N, and my first Bachmann N scale stuff was a waste of money. Then I had to wait for over a year for my two Spectrum SD40-2 that I pre ordered, then when I got them, they had the packaging foam stuck to the paint, and the paint looked like it was applied with a water pistol. Then performance wise, they sounded like an expresso grinder running around the tracks. Soon after running them a few times they died.
I didn't have the best of luck with Bachmann in H.O. scale either, until the blue box spectrum era, post 2010 or so. I love my Santa Fe GP30s in the yellow warbonnet scheme, and they run well
with my Athearn Genesis stuff and Kato stuff.
I agree with everything on here. Great video. I also to found your motor noise is bearing. A lot of the problems with used equipment is lack of maintenance. Most do read manuals. They hook up and go. The maintenance is last and least of their worries. So when you do get that one with problems. Do your usual cleaning and maintenance and they are working back to new ish operation. Love fixing them. Patience.
Many of the locomotives that I purchase used desperately need cleaning.
Prices are certainly higher today for decent used locomotives. Things have changed a lot in two years.
Trust me I feel that, too!
It’s like machines, a lot comes out of a select few factories and if you pay more, then you get something better made with better electrics.
True. This is mostly a spotters guide for those changes so you don't over pay for a 40 year old piece of garbage thinking it is a new unit.
I got into the hobby (N-scale) in 1970 at age 12, and one of my first engines was the exact same Union Pacific FM diesel. N scale was called, "Postage Stamp," series back then - and, quality-wise, that's about all they were worth, lol.
My FM passenger unit ran halfway around a circle of track...and never ran again. It didn't pop and burn: it just never ran again, no matter how much I tinkered with it. You can put lipstick on a pig, as they say, but it is still a darned pig.
The thing about the early Mehano and Rivarossi offerings was that the body shells were nice - but the mechanisms were crap.
The Atlas/Rivarossi E8 had a nice shell, but had no pulling power, as it was the same garbage mechanism as the FM unit. Only one powered truck - and only four of the 12 wheels were geared. Lots of noise and wheel spinning.
In 1987, I bought a pair of those cool looking Mehano SD45 demonstrators. They ran halfway around my large layout - and proceded to pop, burn and smoke.
Must've been those faulty SD45 crankshafts, lol. Maybe if one could fit the crisp body shell over a quality mechanism, you'd have a winner.
Later in the early 90s, Model Power improved their trainset stuff, equipping their locos with a robust, 3-pole Mabuchi motor and dual drive.
Also bought an Atlas GP30 made in Austria. It had those red gears. They arent hefty, but they certainly were a step up from the previous offerings.
You just didn't have good engines in N scale back in the late 1960s/early 70s.
The West German engines were the best during those days. Arnold-Rapido locomotives featured clunky, out of scale body shells and tremedously oversized wheels, but you couldn't beat them for performance.
They featured a weighty metal die-cast shell and dual drive - and they were, "pullers." I had an Arnold- Rapido, Burlington Route GP30 and an ALCO FA1, in Southern Pacific Daylight colors. These engines ran forever.
Lastly, I'd point out that some of these old engines, such as the Mabuchi-powered Model Power engines and Bachmann's steel-geared locomotives of the late 1970s, could be great low-speed crawlers if using those great Tech ll power packs equipped with what was called, "Pulse Injection." I'd strongly recommend those power packs for these old engines. They make old engines run great! The nylon-geared Bachmanns of the 1980s were junk, compared to their old brass-geared, 1970s models.
Finally, stay away from Lima engines of that era with the pancake motors and trucks with gearing in only one wheelset. They'd die in a turnout every time. The motor wasn't bad. The problem was the single drive mechanism.
I've got some of the old metal geared Bachmann's. And they all run fairly well. A little noisy but they get around without issue. The white plastic geared Bachmann's are garbage, unfortunately. Most of the ones I see for sale on eBay if they show the underside you can see cracked gears. I just won't ever buy any of those now that i've done videos on them. Anything that Atlas sold once they started doing business with Kato and everything after I trust.
I must be the unluckiest Atlas SD50/60 owner. I have purchased 5 over the years, and 4 of the 5 needed to have their motors replaced. They started to what I call scream. Lightly at first of course, then louder and louder until they just give up and die.
In the last part of the video I talk about something similar happening with that white GP7 in the video. As far as the GP60's go i've got either 3 or 4 of them. I can't remember if the 4th was a Kato or Atlas but they all run great. I may just be lucky or it may be that I barely run any of them.
Atlas ditched the side frame contacts on the Atlas Master Line for what reason? Be very careful, once the wire is broken off the truck it is seriously difficult to solder back on. I also had a front truck problem with the same Master Line loco. It would randomly lock up and release. It ended back up at Atlas for them to look at. They replaced the front truck and it also has the same problem under heavy load. Some early to mid 90’s Atlas have problems with the plastic driveshaft yoke that goes into the flywheel. Either those will crack or the plastic inside the flywheel will let go. Those parts are press fit onto the motor shaft and driveshaft. Either one of those broken parts will Leave you with only one end of the locomotive operating.
I don't think I have any with the wire connected trucks. At least not Atlas. I have some older Life-Like which are like that and I agree they are near impossible for somebody of my limited skills to re-solder.
@@Trains-With-Shane
She day soon, I plan on buying a table with a lighted adjustable magnifying Glass clamped to it.
@@MFXdump I've got one of those magnification visors that works pretty well. I just suck at soldering, lol
Thanks for the n scale info!!!!
You're welcome!
Thank you for the video very interesting
I have 60 Katos and 60 Atlas N scale engines and frankly I find the atlas a superior engine
I like the sound of the units the speed and the details on it
Atlas engines are much more easier to MU
In addition some of the Kato engines seem like having spring loaded trucks but the front and rear trucks are not spring loaded the same ie the engine looks crooked
I have far more Kato than I do Atlas but that's really only due to me usually finding a specific road or locomotive type I want made by Kato first. Most of my N scale MKT fleet is Atlas. One is Kato but only because it was a custom paint a friend di for me, lol.
Have you ever tried repairing the truck wiring on the E-7 ? Soldering the wires is impossible! The roco made have red gears and four motor to truck power pickups which being wire brake over time due to age cracking. Trying to repair by soldering them back to the brass tabs is a bear !
I don't think Atlas ever made E7's. Now if you're talking about on a Life-Like E7 no I haven't for that very reason. I actually have a Life-Like GP38 that needs one truck connection resoldered and it's impossibly fiddly (for somebody of my limited skills anyway). I much prefer the copper contacts and contact strips/pads, etc that most people used in combination with the split frame. It's just easier to take care of and repair.
The “Masterline” is built the same way. At least, my brand new 8-40C was built with wires soldered to the trucks. Broke them all while trying to fix a different problem. And nope, couldn’t get the wires to solder back on to the truck contacts. So it’s out for repair. I sure hope someone with better repair equipment can fix it. I’m considering staying with Kato only.
I know early Atlas locomotives weren't very good. In 1970, I got a trainset with a C-Liner locomotive. Ran halfway around a circle of track and, "poof," there went the smoking motor...shades of Model Power, lol.
Also had an Atlas E8 from that same period that someone gave me. Nice body shell but only four wheels were powered and it couldn't pull anything.
Then, got a nice looking GP30 in the Santa Fe, "Dress Blues," scheme. This was a Roco model, made in Austria. Had the red gears. I never even ran it one time, but saw one of your vids whereby you said they were not strong pullers. It was an all-wheel drive locomotive. Oops, I forgot I had previously posted, but will just leave this here anyway, lol.
LOL all well intended and polite replies are welcome. Yeah Atlas had their ups and downs.
in respect to the mehano sd45. you probably will not find a double power loco but you will find same body on a con cor chassis from roco
I think that that point i'd rather just have a Kato or newer Atlas SD45 painted up in the Demo unit colors.
I’ll never ever own another N scale Atlas or Life Like. I’ve had nothing but problems with them not running right and that’s brand new out of the case. Never failed I had to give them a little push to run and they hesitate so bad! Never had an issue with my KATO, Intermountain and Athearn.
Really? That's not good! Thankfully I've never had an issue with anything new, from any manufacturer, out of the box to that degree. Even ones that were over lubricated from the factory still ran great. I've had plenty of issues with used stuff, though. In fact i've got a whole playlist devoted to bringing that kind of stuff back to life. With a little mix of everything, Bachmann, Life-Like, Atlas, Kato, etc.
The reason why I still keep the old shitty stuff is because it's just cool to display it or like you said, use it as a dummy
Thanks
You're welcome, John. Thanks for stopping by.
Very informative information given on the Atlas N scale locomotives. I’m an N scale model railroader myself. All of my N scale locomotives are Kato, bought brand new & so are my Amtrak Superliner Coast Starlight & my Excursion Southern Pacific Morning Daylight that is pulled by the GS4 number 4449 steam locomotive. The Atlas junk locomotives make great display locomotives for a display train & a dummy locomotive.
I've had really good experiences with all the Atlas hardware i've bought as long as it was during or after their work with Kato. Which includes their Yellow Box HO scale locomotives. I've got some of those made by Kato, Roco, and then in China. All great runners.The old communist block stuff,, yeah no good. At all.
Awesome !
Thanks Robert!
Used N-scale anything stuff is getting ridiculously expensive in what hucksters ask and get on eBay now, even more on Etsy! My advise: Wait for new models, if currently your desired model is not for sale, and buy new equipment ONLY. You will spend less than for the old junk.
Very true but not always easy advise to follow if you're looking for specific stuff. And I agree over the last year or so used stuff has gotten pretty stupid and it's getting very difficult to find deals. People wanting ~$100 for used DC diesel locomotives, That's just nuts when you can get stuff brand new from Kato or Atlas for the same price. I waited until Kato re-released their Katy SD70ACE heritage unit and picked one up for $97 rather than the $300 people wanting for the previous release. But I know i've had to buy some sketchy looking stuff to get some specific items.
Now if you're just starting out my god yes buy a new starter kit from either Atlas, Kato, or even Bachmann's new stuff is pretty good.
I am into the used locomotive market and I will tell you some are good and some are horrible. If it says Mahano, Marklin, or gen 1 Rapido don't buy it place it on the shelf or get rid of it these locomotives are made in the Russian Block, they are garbage, and their gearbox's can not be replaced. If it says Yugoslavia, Germany, Czech Republic, Slovakia, or Siberia on it don't buy it these engines are garbage they come from nations that are former communist block and they are poor quality we are done with them so don't buy it. Another one not to by are engines made by the Japanese manufacture Tyco these engines have better manufacturing but they are too toy like so don't get them. One brand you need to be careful of is Riverrossi their shells are good so is the detail but not the tooling so be careful if you get these. If it says Austria on the side you are dealing with a Roko engine these you need to inspect because Roko engines run well on some layouts but do poorly on others just be careful. If it says Kato USA that is a sign it is not crap Kato USA makes the best models on the market but they are expensive and the buyer will be asking for a large sum so be careful. Also is it says Kato you will need to find an adapter kit these engines use Kadee hook and horns and the springs can get lost Microtrains kit 1120 will fix this. Most units today are made in China Korea, Japan, or the US those that were made in the US BLMA and later Scale Trains made these so you will have good quality but they might be expensive. Know before you buy you don't want junk.
Hi Aaron! That's basically a cliff note of this video, lol. Although I didn't touch on specifically East Germany or the Czech republic as I don't think that Atlas ever imported from them (although they might have if Mehano had any manufacturing there.) I don't recall Tyco making N scale but have read up on the history of Tyco / Mantua / Etc in the HO market.
when service is needed on early atlas Kato don't ignore Kato parts. motors are common to both
Great advice as I am contemplating N scale ..
Thanks David. Hard to go wrong with anything Atlas made during or following their partnership with Kato. If it says Made in China or Made in Japan it should be a good unit. (previous owner abuse not withstanding)
@@Trains-With-Shane I live Brasil but here N guage is astronomical price but am visiting Florida October near Plantations so will look for rail shop or supplier nearby...
Here HO is really cheap but dont have space for it
My biggest gripe with Atlas at the moment is that their "masterline" series freight cars in N scale are simply Trainman models at best. Seriously, plastic wheels and truck mounted couplers?? At the price of other more detailed manufacturers like Athearn and Scaletrains? Other than that, Atlas does make some very nice models and smooth running locomotives.
Should've been more clear, SOME Masterline cars, not all of them.
@@AbelG8781 I haven't worked with any of their masterline cars yet. Most of my new-ish cars have been MicroTrains (which I am very happy with so far). I wonder if the Master Line was just a rebrand and they're putting it on new tooling as well as old. I'll have to investigate because i'm very much a "get what you pay for" focused shopper with an eye on good value. So if the value isn't good I won't be buying (generally, lol). Now that being said i'm guilty if buying very old rolling stock, even with truck mounted rapido couplers, just because.
@@Trains-With-Shane I hear ya. I'm definitely not saying Atlas sucks, I have a lot of their products but the fact that the Masterline brand in their HO and O scales have higher levels of details and features kinda seems odd to not have it in N scale.
@@AbelG8781 True, that. I've got a Master Line Atlas GP40 in HO scale and it's GREAT.
@@Trains-With-Shane smooth runners for sure!
When I Buy a Locomotive I go to a Train Show or a Train Shop But Never online That’s my Story and I am Sticking to it.
It's always best to get an in-person inspection but that's not an option for everybody. Interestingly nearly all of the locomotives I picked up at the last local train show needed work. And 4 of the 5 were Atlas/Kato or Atlas China.
Atlas came up with the first then Cato came after but yeah Atlas came up with the the metal strips first then Kato came up with it after but if you look at old Kato you will understand
I converted to N scale in 2006 coming from HO scale. My rule of thumb is to never buy any N scale locomotive made before 1998 or so (when DCC-ready locomotives first went to market). Also, if it comes with Rapido couplers, I don't want it. Chances are it'll also have ugly pizza cutter large-flange wheels. N scale locomotives made in the 21st century both look and run way better than their older counterparts by leaps and bounds. I understand some folks have sentimental/emotional attachment to older N scale, and that's fine, but I never had that attachment. I always loved the size of N but thought they were all toylike, but things changed in the '90s and 2000s. N scale today is basically a smaller HO.
all true. But as I said near the end of the video not everybody can afford to buy $150 Kato or Atlas engines especially if they're getting a young child started. Granted N isn't really ideal for young kids. My first set when I was around 5 was a Lionel O gauge steamer.
Interestingly. That Rivarossi I show in this video I purchased solely because I wanted an example to include in the video, lol.
Kato decided to make models for themselves. Especially in N scale (also HO scale too) in which Kato still makes N scale items in modern times. This was the leading reason for the Atlas/Kato split.
It makes sense. I mean Kato was doing all of the work. May as well make all of the money, too! In fairness Atlas's post Kato made in China stuff is really good as well.
remember Kato made con cor pa1 locos first
I'm frustrated by the selection of Penn Central stuff that I'm finding on Ebay. Much of it is from 1969 or very early. I found one that was from the first model that you listed. I also have a couple that I've picked up pretty cheap as well to fiddle with, the f unit styles. It seems like there aren't that many that are newer. I don't mind paying more for a DC that will run well, but I'm just finding old stuff.
I struggle with finding stuff for my main focus which is MKT. With the exception of the earliest Kato units I don't really even consider the old N scale locomotives anymore. Just too much work. Especially the old Atlas and Bachmann units.
Thanks for sharing. NEW SUBSCRIBER HERE FROM New Jersey USA 🇺🇸
Thanks for subscribing! How are things in NJ?
@@Trains-With-Shane Things are OK
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HOWS THING OVER THERE
@@OgaugeTrainsplusslotCars Thankfully the sun is shining here in Texas.
@@Trains-With-Shane Shout out to are the Toy Train Engineers and Railfanners in The Big State of TEXAS
Atlas made by Kato mechanism are pretty good,before that I would not touch
Yeah that's pretty much the summary of this video. lol. But wanted to show, in a little bit of detail, some spotting features of the ones to mostly avoid.
What is a good starter set . Is Bachman worth getting
Sure is especially if you catch a sale at Hobby Lobby. You can pick up a starter set there sometimes for around $40 and it comes with track, locomotive with 3 cars, and a power pack/controller. Cost goes up if you want DCC but yeah still a very good bang for the buck just make sure you're buying something relatively new. Which Hobby Lobby should be pretty new stock. Now if you don't mind spending a bit more money Kato's starter sets have MUCH better track. And it's far more widely supported. Although Kato's sets, especially ones that come with locomotives, are quite spendy.
No drive tires is a good sign, imho
it's definitely a sign of a newer machine for sure. Although the brand new Broadway Limited Y6B has traction tires I believe. DIY & Digital Railroad just posted a video on his and it's a beast.
Kato don't look that great based on todays standards, but they run amazing !
Yeah certainly plain when compared to ScaleTrains or something. But smooth as butter.
I don't agree at all with the criticism of Rivarossi's production.
I can understand that your presentation is aimed at modeling quality.
And it is obvious that newer products are better than older ones.
I agree that Mehano, in the same era, produced junk models.
However, comparing the quality of Rivarossi in 1968-1970 with that of Kato from 1983 is not correct, at least from a collector's point of view. Perhaps the model is technically inferior but it still has great collectible value, perhaps more than Kato. Alex
I'm not comparing collectability. I'm advising what to and not to buy if you're a novice railroader looking to pick up something used on eBay or Marketplace and want to run it. As I mentioned the Rivarossi was much higher in quality of manufacture and materials than the Mehano but the drives were still not good due to design compared to the Kato/Atlas era.
I have a southern Pacific 9725 it's missing it's trucks though
Made by Atlas? Or High Speed Metal Products?