Just a note .If you wire the hot lead to the coil positive you will have power in both the on and crank position of the ignition switch.If car has a ballast resister before coil than wire to the resister on the supply side not the coil side for full 12 volts.
Think you could show video on how you have your coil hooked up and everything would really help out with all the wiring and kind of going up on the engine
Fallen, if you are having problems with enrichening I would look at your iginition. I like an ignition that a light off on whole gallon of gas in a hole. Maybe you don't have enought coil to light everything. I would look for a 50k volt coil and at your OHM rating on your plug wires, the lower the rating per foot is what you should be looking at, MSD has some pretty good ones. . I do also recommend looking at getting a set of Torquemaster S plugs, with enough voltage behind those plugs they will fire everything.
I have long sold this car and don't recall exactly what all was done. The system was never able to correctly work with the stock wiring harness. Even with a 100amp alternator upgrade and upgraded engine bay wiring, the system could not maintain the voltage needed to operate correctly. The old carb was more reliable. After installing an MSD distributor and 6AL box, the system could not provide enough power when cranking to give 12V to both the MSD box and the Atomic EFI. You basically had to have a jumper box on the car to start it when cold. This was even with a brand new high capacity battery. Once warm it was hit or miss. If it started within two seconds you were good. If it didn't by then the voltage was too low. Requiring to turn off the ignition, recycle fuel pump, then try again and again. Sometimes started, sometimes didn't. The car would also die if the RPM'S dropped below 900 or so. I confirmed no vacuum leaks or reasons for odd idle and dying out. The only cure is to replace the entire wiring harness with upgraded and newer components. That does the trick no problem. So you need the EFI system, an MSD box to provide control to justify the EFI, upgraded alternator, and a whole new upgraded wiring harness including im dash wiring. Expect to spend $2500-3000 if doing this upgrade and wanting your vehicle to be a reliable driver on a 60's Ford. Can't state an opinion on other vehicles or makes. I have another Mustang that I have kept the carb on. It's getting the restomod treatment with new everything, so will probably go EFI eventually, but it will not be the MSD kit. Too problematic for no gain. I noticeably lost power with the EFI as well. I ended up putting in a second O2 sensor to better monitor each bank and they were never even close to each other. Different mixtures are thrown into each cylinder. The rear cylinders get far too much fuel and the front cylinders get far too little. It averages the overall versus being able to provide the right amount to each cylinder. Throttle body injection is not worth it. Needs individual port injection to justify the change to EFI. This kit is basically an expensive and problematic carburetor. If you have the right carb for your engine and dialed in, you'll be happier than with the MSD Atomic.
I have one of these but have not installed it yet. A buddy installed one and it was ok but with a few annoying things going on. All issues went away after he installed the return line and the 6al box and let the system control timing.
and at @ 3:09 you say, "you will have a no start without throttle" does that sound like what I wrote about? As that idle is racing down, I have to feather the gas to keep the car alive. I'll check my wiring again to see if mine is wired in the same manner
Michael Cannizzo : We have different issues I believe. I don't have any issues at all with it running, hot or cold. Runs like a champ, though the idle in park is about 400rpm higher, which was not the case when I had a carb on it. My no start without throttle was because of the Mustang's switch design. Putting a toggle in and removing the on wire from the key switch allows for starts without throttle and as designed. I can't say what your issue is because I haven't ran into that myself. My IAC is in line with what MSD lists and there is never any stalling or problems. I had stuttering and backfiring when some of the settings were too rich but I worked them out by playing around with it.
I agree, sounds like it. Honestly I just need to make a video of all the characteristics, show some of the troubleshooting I've done, and offer up a reward to the person who helps figure this out. I don't want to go to a Holley Sniper, aside from my cold start idle stall the system is flawless across the board.
@fallen771 - The IDLE Target is to assist with the IAC valce trying to achieve that desired RPM. This is my issue with the unit and it sounds like you have the same thing. Manual tells you to adjust the throttle plates with the car warm, in drive, foot on the brake and get the IAC count between 0-10. Great, I can do that get my idle to 800-850 where my ZZ5 SBC wants to be. Second I throw it into park I am at 1200+ RPMs and even higher when it's frigid here in NY. It's not obtainable here for me. I've sent to MSD, they've replace a load of parts on the TB, I've replaced the intake manifold and carb gaskets, confirmed no vacuum leak and it is simply not doable. So now I have the idle set to that 850 sweet spot, but my IAC count is high and if I do a cold start (winter or 100 degree summer day doesn't matter), the car will start, race up to 1500+ RPMs, and then know it's too high and come down so fast the IAC can't catch it and stalls. I've learned to live with it for the time being, but nobody can solve this issue. So I have to feather the gas in park only when cold to keep her alive. When she is in drive or warmed up in park it's a non issue.
Similar problems in a 1964 Thunderbird, 390 CID "fresh engine" installation. Finally have cold start problems mostly solved with idle rpm and throttle plate tweaks but the system will routinely stall on a hot start until it has idled for a good 15 to 25 seconds. Frequently requires three restarts unless the throttle is "feathered". I agree that this feels like an "IAC too slow to react" problem. Listen to a modern car's "engineered" system - they gradually reduce start up idle, not drop it like a lead weight. While the Atomic is elegant from a "minimal wiring" and "everything in the throttle body" standpoint, the cheap feeling/looking handheld unit is a major disappointment. EVERY parameter should be user adjustable from a laptop or tablet in the cabin so that the user can set his own curves relative to idle/temp/vacuum/mechanical lag. Isn't that the point of computer control?
@@gilbertburas6357 Did you do a return fuel line.I have read numerous posts that say the system will not run properly with out one.Plan on putting this on my Jeep 4.7 stroked straight 6.I live at 8000 feet and the carb is not able to adjust when I go up higher to say 10000 feet.As far as the Holly system,they own MSD so don't expect any different service.
@@jimmyzamp6298 Yes. Return system regulated to 45psi. Aeromotive in-tank pump plumbed through PTFE lines and Fragola fittings. Marren Fuel Injection Systems pulse damper to cut down on the "motorboat" racket this thing makes. Thousands of $$ in this project. Restart problems have already burned out a starter drive in 9 months. Takes almost a half minute to find idle on a hot start and I have to "feather" the throttle to keep it alive. Occasionally stalls inexplicably. Could it be a tiny fracture in the exhaust manifold or a leak at the donut gasket or a bad O2 sensor that causes all of this and the slight, but noticeable,"surging"? Don't know - yet. On the up side, the thing starts instantly regardless of the weather. My other Bird still has its Autolite 4100 on it, and runs smooth as silk - if you can get it start on a hot day.
@@jimmyzamp6298 Jimmy: I have s '97 TJ and have done some offroading with it both here in Louisiana and in Colorado. MSD cautions that a return system is HIGHLY recommended for hot climates, so you may be OK with returnless in the mountains.
I just installed this to my 65, it wants to start but as soon as it does it dies. Do I have to move any screws or anything on the throttle body that u know of? I just took the old carburetor out and installed this throttle body as it is.
There are setup instructions in the manual for when you first put it on. It's been awhile so don't recall what but you have to adjust the blades to a certain reading prior to firing.
I was never able to get it to run as well as it did with a 600cfm Edelbrock carburetor. I spent hours with MSD support, swapped numerous parts, and even had it on a Dyno with no luck. The Dyno chart highlighted areas of under and over fueling. I ended up eventually selling the car as is. It was drivable and not bad but after knowing how well it ran on a carb, the EFI was a let down. On my other mustang that has a much higher performance build I went with a 650cfm Edelbrock and it performs flawless. If I was to try EFI on an older car again it would only be with a sequential injection system and not a TBI like MSD again.
Not sure how the Ignition switch works on a Ford Mustang, but on a Mopar you have Ignition 1 (run) and Ignition 2 (start) where when starting Ignition 1 (run) is off when starting, and Ignition 2 (start) is on when starting. Maybe you have the same situation going? So in our case, we have to wire both Ignition 1 and Ignition 2 in order to make sure it has power in both run and start positions. Have you checked to see if there are two positions (i.e. run position and start position)?
What cam setting are you using? I have found that my car runs best on stock/street even though I would consider it a mild cam 512 int and 512 exh. It’s a comp cam 280h. I agree the idle target is tough to use. I don’t think the IAC valve responds quick enough on this unit. I have set my idle to 1000rpm using the throttle blades. I found that if I tried to lower the idle rpm and let the computer try and adjust with the IAC valve it liked to stall when clutching in and coming to stop at a light. I’m running 15 on pump squirt and 20% power valve. The engine runs great while driving. Lots of power good response but when I had the edlebrock carb installed it idled far better/lower and lumpy. Just wondering what a/f ratios you have set? I have 14 idle 13.5 cruise and 12 wot. Found it was hard to start with any higher idle a/f ratio. I must say it is hard to leave the thing alone. I’m used to a carb which you adjust and see the difference immediately. This is somewhat instant and than wait for self learn. Lol
I came across your comments and read your settings. I have the exact same cam in my mustang. What made you come to the conclusion on your settings for everything? I run about 950-1000 rpm in park but it drops to about 850 or so in gear. I have about 32 degrees in total timing.
@@stonesofetown6767 ok thanks for the advice. Since you have the same cam, one of the things I am running into is coughing starts after it is hot. I can get it to not do that if I back off the timing a bit but then I get much lower manifold vacuum. I did catch a vacuum leak but fixed that. Even then I only hover around 10-15mg of vacuum based on how I’ve adjusted my timing.
What reasons do you have to not buy this system again? I have a 66 also and I’m looking into getting this system. Mainly because I can get other MSD products that will integrate with this. Any wisdom would be awesome. Thank you.
Honestly, I will probably try a different system on future vehicles. This specific vehicle just did an engine swap with a mild performance build, new MSD engine components, etc. Plans are to build a turbo system for it as well. Will depend how well it works for that whether I'd buy again. Personally I think the Edelbrock kit with sequential injection is the way to go after meeting someone who did that conversion on their 302 engine. The MSD kit seems more like the "poor man's EFI".
Matheus Marchiori : Are you talking the two fuel ports on the MSD unit? If so, one is an input line and the other is to be blocked off unless you are running it as a return system. Then it would use the other to return fuel to the tank.
I couldn't tell you at this point but it was by the diagram in the instruction booklet. Car currently is stripped down doing an IFS and stroked engine swap so it's all been pulled.
How did you mount your fuel pump? Did you mount it in tank? Or external? I just received my MSD Atomic EFI and I am hoping to do the install myself in my 64 El Camino.
Chris Paulson It is recommended to install an in take sump kit or aftermarket tank with a built in pump but for the mean time I did it externally. I put it as low as I could and mounted it right next to the tank outlet with some drop down brackets I made, putting a fuel filter between the tank and pump. You need it to be low because the pump is designed to push fuel, not pull.
I bought a vehicle with this system but there is NOT a O2 sensor hooked up do I need to install one
Just a note .If you wire the hot lead to the coil positive you will have power in both the on and crank position of the ignition switch.If car has a ballast resister before coil than wire to the resister on the supply side not the coil side for full 12 volts.
Was about to say the same thing as soon as I heard him mention that in the video
Can you save the tune with this unit I'm stuck on trying to figure that out can someone help?
Think you could show video on how you have your coil hooked up and everything would really help out with all the wiring and kind of going up on the engine
Fallen, if you are having problems with enrichening I would look at your iginition. I like an ignition that a light off on whole gallon of gas in a hole. Maybe you don't have enought coil to light everything. I would look for a 50k volt coil and at your OHM rating on your plug wires, the lower the rating per foot is what you should be looking at, MSD has some pretty good ones. . I do also recommend looking at getting a set of Torquemaster S plugs, with enough voltage behind those plugs they will fire everything.
Great video! Thanks!
Good info,would you mind making a diagram on how you hook it out for the toggle switch,thanks in advance
I have long sold this car and don't recall exactly what all was done. The system was never able to correctly work with the stock wiring harness. Even with a 100amp alternator upgrade and upgraded engine bay wiring, the system could not maintain the voltage needed to operate correctly. The old carb was more reliable.
After installing an MSD distributor and 6AL box, the system could not provide enough power when cranking to give 12V to both the MSD box and the Atomic EFI. You basically had to have a jumper box on the car to start it when cold. This was even with a brand new high capacity battery. Once warm it was hit or miss. If it started within two seconds you were good. If it didn't by then the voltage was too low. Requiring to turn off the ignition, recycle fuel pump, then try again and again. Sometimes started, sometimes didn't. The car would also die if the RPM'S dropped below 900 or so. I confirmed no vacuum leaks or reasons for odd idle and dying out.
The only cure is to replace the entire wiring harness with upgraded and newer components. That does the trick no problem. So you need the EFI system, an MSD box to provide control to justify the EFI, upgraded alternator, and a whole new upgraded wiring harness including im dash wiring. Expect to spend $2500-3000 if doing this upgrade and wanting your vehicle to be a reliable driver on a 60's Ford. Can't state an opinion on other vehicles or makes.
I have another Mustang that I have kept the carb on. It's getting the restomod treatment with new everything, so will probably go EFI eventually, but it will not be the MSD kit. Too problematic for no gain. I noticeably lost power with the EFI as well. I ended up putting in a second O2 sensor to better monitor each bank and they were never even close to each other. Different mixtures are thrown into each cylinder. The rear cylinders get far too much fuel and the front cylinders get far too little. It averages the overall versus being able to provide the right amount to each cylinder. Throttle body injection is not worth it. Needs individual port injection to justify the change to EFI. This kit is basically an expensive and problematic carburetor.
If you have the right carb for your engine and dialed in, you'll be happier than with the MSD Atomic.
@@fallen771 that is great information - thanks,
I have one of these but have not installed it yet. A buddy installed one and it was ok but with a few annoying things going on. All issues went away after he installed the return line and the 6al box and let the system control timing.
and at @ 3:09 you say, "you will have a no start without throttle" does that sound like what I wrote about? As that idle is racing down, I have to feather the gas to keep the car alive. I'll check my wiring again to see if mine is wired in the same manner
Michael Cannizzo : We have different issues I believe. I don't have any issues at all with it running, hot or cold. Runs like a champ, though the idle in park is about 400rpm higher, which was not the case when I had a carb on it. My no start without throttle was because of the Mustang's switch design. Putting a toggle in and removing the on wire from the key switch allows for starts without throttle and as designed.
I can't say what your issue is because I haven't ran into that myself. My IAC is in line with what MSD lists and there is never any stalling or problems. I had stuttering and backfiring when some of the settings were too rich but I worked them out by playing around with it.
I agree, sounds like it. Honestly I just need to make a video of all the characteristics, show some of the troubleshooting I've done, and offer up a reward to the person who helps figure this out. I don't want to go to a Holley Sniper, aside from my cold start idle stall the system is flawless across the board.
These are junk I had 2, first one lasted 500 miles, second one lasted 8000. I have a Holley Sniper now, 100% better.
@fallen771 - The IDLE Target is to assist with the IAC valce trying to achieve that desired RPM. This is my issue with the unit and it sounds like you have the same thing. Manual tells you to adjust the throttle plates with the car warm, in drive, foot on the brake and get the IAC count between 0-10. Great, I can do that get my idle to 800-850 where my ZZ5 SBC wants to be. Second I throw it into park I am at 1200+ RPMs and even higher when it's frigid here in NY. It's not obtainable here for me. I've sent to MSD, they've replace a load of parts on the TB, I've replaced the intake manifold and carb gaskets, confirmed no vacuum leak and it is simply not doable. So now I have the idle set to that 850 sweet spot, but my IAC count is high and if I do a cold start (winter or 100 degree summer day doesn't matter), the car will start, race up to 1500+ RPMs, and then know it's too high and come down so fast the IAC can't catch it and stalls. I've learned to live with it for the time being, but nobody can solve this issue. So I have to feather the gas in park only when cold to keep her alive. When she is in drive or warmed up in park it's a non issue.
Similar problems in a 1964 Thunderbird, 390 CID "fresh engine" installation. Finally have cold start problems mostly solved with idle rpm and throttle plate tweaks but the system will routinely stall on a hot start until it has idled for a good 15 to 25 seconds. Frequently requires three restarts unless the throttle is "feathered". I agree that this feels like an "IAC too slow to react" problem. Listen to a modern car's "engineered" system - they gradually reduce start up idle, not drop it like a lead weight. While the Atomic is elegant from a "minimal wiring" and "everything in the throttle body" standpoint, the cheap feeling/looking handheld unit is a major disappointment. EVERY parameter should be user adjustable from a laptop or tablet in the cabin so that the user can set his own curves relative to idle/temp/vacuum/mechanical lag. Isn't that the point of computer control?
Try running a bit richer at idle.. 10 or 9
@@gilbertburas6357 Did you do a return fuel line.I have read numerous posts that say the system will not run properly with out one.Plan on putting this on my Jeep 4.7 stroked straight 6.I live at 8000 feet and the carb is not able to adjust when I go up higher to say 10000 feet.As far as the Holly system,they own MSD so don't expect any different service.
@@jimmyzamp6298 Yes. Return system regulated to 45psi. Aeromotive in-tank pump plumbed through PTFE lines and Fragola fittings. Marren Fuel Injection Systems pulse damper to cut down on the "motorboat" racket this thing makes. Thousands of $$ in this project. Restart problems have already burned out a starter drive in 9 months. Takes almost a half minute to find idle on a hot start and I have to "feather" the throttle to keep it alive. Occasionally stalls inexplicably. Could it be a tiny fracture in the exhaust manifold or a leak at the donut gasket or a bad O2 sensor that causes all of this and the slight, but noticeable,"surging"? Don't know - yet. On the up side, the thing starts instantly regardless of the weather. My other Bird still has its Autolite 4100 on it, and runs smooth as silk - if you can get it start on a hot day.
@@jimmyzamp6298 Jimmy: I have s '97 TJ and have done some offroading with it both here in Louisiana and in Colorado. MSD cautions that a return system is HIGHLY recommended for hot climates, so you may be OK with returnless in the mountains.
I just installed this to my 65, it wants to start but as soon as it does it dies. Do I have to move any screws or anything on the throttle body that u know of? I just took the old carburetor out and installed this throttle body as it is.
There are setup instructions in the manual for when you first put it on. It's been awhile so don't recall what but you have to adjust the blades to a certain reading prior to firing.
How is it running for ya? Any issues? Thanks!
I was never able to get it to run as well as it did with a 600cfm Edelbrock carburetor. I spent hours with MSD support, swapped numerous parts, and even had it on a Dyno with no luck. The Dyno chart highlighted areas of under and over fueling.
I ended up eventually selling the car as is. It was drivable and not bad but after knowing how well it ran on a carb, the EFI was a let down. On my other mustang that has a much higher performance build I went with a 650cfm Edelbrock and it performs flawless. If I was to try EFI on an older car again it would only be with a sequential injection system and not a TBI like MSD again.
Not sure how the Ignition switch works on a Ford Mustang, but on a Mopar you have Ignition 1 (run) and Ignition 2 (start) where when starting Ignition 1 (run) is off when starting, and Ignition 2 (start) is on when starting. Maybe you have the same situation going? So in our case, we have to wire both Ignition 1 and Ignition 2 in order to make sure it has power in both run and start positions. Have you checked to see if there are two positions (i.e. run position and start position)?
What cam setting are you using? I have found that my car runs best on stock/street even though I would consider it a mild cam 512 int and 512 exh. It’s a comp cam 280h. I agree the idle target is tough to use. I don’t think the IAC valve responds quick enough on this unit. I have set my idle to 1000rpm using the throttle blades. I found that if I tried to lower the idle rpm and let the computer try and adjust with the IAC valve it liked to stall when clutching in and coming to stop at a light. I’m running 15 on pump squirt and 20% power valve. The engine runs great while driving. Lots of power good response but when I had the edlebrock carb installed it idled far better/lower and lumpy. Just wondering what a/f ratios you have set? I have 14 idle 13.5 cruise and 12 wot. Found it was hard to start with any higher idle a/f ratio. I must say it is hard to leave the thing alone. I’m used to a carb which you adjust and see the difference immediately. This is somewhat instant and than wait for self learn. Lol
I came across your comments and read your settings. I have the exact same cam in my mustang. What made you come to the conclusion on your settings for everything? I run about 950-1000 rpm in park but it drops to about 850 or so in gear. I have about 32 degrees in total timing.
@@FranciscoPerez-mo7sy mostly just trial and error. Adjusted until it runs best
@@stonesofetown6767 ok thanks for the advice. Since you have the same cam, one of the things I am running into is coughing starts after it is hot. I can get it to not do that if I back off the timing a bit but then I get much lower manifold vacuum. I did catch a vacuum leak but fixed that. Even then I only hover around 10-15mg of vacuum based on how I’ve adjusted my timing.
What motor are you working with?
What reasons do you have to not buy this system again? I have a 66 also and I’m looking into getting this system. Mainly because I can get other MSD products that will integrate with this. Any wisdom would be awesome. Thank you.
Honestly, I will probably try a different system on future vehicles. This specific vehicle just did an engine swap with a mild performance build, new MSD engine components, etc. Plans are to build a turbo system for it as well. Will depend how well it works for that whether I'd buy again.
Personally I think the Edelbrock kit with sequential injection is the way to go after meeting someone who did that conversion on their 302 engine. The MSD kit seems more like the "poor man's EFI".
Do you know if I can use the two fuel ports with a fuel line?
Matheus Marchiori : Are you talking the two fuel ports on the MSD unit? If so, one is an input line and the other is to be blocked off unless you are running it as a return system. Then it would use the other to return fuel to the tank.
U can use a regulator and the other port be return line
If u happy with this why you consider getting different?
Hi there fallen
Hi how did you wire your distributor? I do not have the MSD Ignition I have a stock 350 distributor. Thank you
I couldn't tell you at this point but it was by the diagram in the instruction booklet. Car currently is stripped down doing an IFS and stroked engine swap so it's all been pulled.
How did you mount your fuel pump? Did you mount it in tank? Or external? I just received my MSD Atomic EFI and I am hoping to do the install myself in my 64 El Camino.
Chris Paulson It is recommended to install an in take sump kit or aftermarket tank with a built in pump but for the mean time I did it externally. I put it as low as I could and mounted it right next to the tank outlet with some drop down brackets I made, putting a fuel filter between the tank and pump. You need it to be low because the pump is designed to push fuel, not pull.
If you let the atomic unit control timing it fixes most issues. Idle,off throttle return to idle etc