The king of the walls: If you kill eldians, I will start the rumbling and kill you all. Marley: *kills eldians* *rumbling starts* Marley: *surprised pikachu face*
@@kgosi5230 As punishment for the crimes of the Eldia people and specifically his family. He thought letting his people waste away in fear was for the best.
@@Toneill029the King **said** he would defend paradis using the rumbling, but in actuality he was keeping everyone holed up in a fancy prison until the day they eventually get genocided
Remember in episode 5 season 4, Tybur literally declared war on Paradis and wanted to form a global alliance BEFORE Eren attacked NOT because Eren attacked.
@@rcylarga Two things can be true at the same time. Yes Marley is pure evil. That being said Eren could have easily spared the women and children like Ramsey and that wouldn’t have hurt the survival of paradise even one bit. So Eren is evil for that too.
@@GoobertTheThird good points. Care to explain (in AoT context) how the innocents will be spared? Would love to hear your detailed plans in mind without forgetting that Zeke is dying soon and Willy just declared war on Paradis.
@@GoobertTheThird you are the example of thinking ideally, but not realistically. Good point, having that idea is easy. To implement that idea? Impossible
They attacked cause even threatened the world with it. It's very much like if ISIS some how got its hand nuclear weapons. Every nation would probably attack them
And those type people are idealist. They hope everything works out just fine , but come time to put in the action to get what they hope for they all of sudden have a change of heart
It's not that question. You would be played like a fiddle by a clever populist if you actually think like this (like many people were under a certain man in Germany one time)
@@vincentwilliams2314no they are not you fing goof. This why you don’t have that type of power. If someone like you existed in politics your own people would kill you. Anyone willing to crash out is an idiot. A small scale rumbling causes a better way to show power. It’s how America does things, you show power you do not go all out.
@@DrthRevan and? doesnt mean you have to stoop to that level, L take. easly could've won by just attacking millitary. and eren wouldnt die because his friends would have no reason to stop him.
@cannonbyrd1755 his view is his friends can't truly be free as long as there is humanity who still view them as devils and still , and thats the only way he sees fit for his loved ones to be free
The thing is even eren wasn’t trying to justify it. He just refused to allow the burdens that fell to him to be passed down to anyone else. He’s continuing the rumbling because he already knows how it ends
Exactly. It's fact that if the rumbling didn't happen they would not have a future. None of the shit plans they were coming up with would have worked. This hatred has been running two thousand years. There's is no possiblity of reasoning with Marley. So just give up and get euthanized and die out? Never.
@@guywithtrash231 how is it not justified the world literally genocide paradise in the future it's literally paradise or the world. How is wrong to choose Paradise?
@@hawkeyemihawkgettingmoneylordlike you said, it's paradis or the world, even though i agree that Marley is one evil country, i still wouldn't tried to justified what Eren did to the rest of the world, and like what Eren himself said, the death of the eldians pale in comparison to the deaths of the rest of the world
To be fair, when King Fritz left for the island, he made sure that he threatened the people of Marlay and everyone else that if his people weren't left alone, the Rumbling would start. In response, Marlay continued to turn Eldians into Pure Titans and drop them onto the island, indirectly attacking the people of Paradise, fo decades. And then, they launched a series of direct attacks for years. Willy Tybur also gathered allied diplomats and openly declared war on the island and its people. At what point is enough enough? Is the Rumbling justified? I guess it depends on which side of the wall you're on, but people have a right to defend themselves
The rumbling is justified but the mass killing isn't eren could've achieved a more favorable outcome with a controlled rumbling destroying the allied fleet and even he could destroy Marley to make an example out of . What eren did was seal the fate of everyone on parady island as they will die form a combined attack in a few decades
@@sujithsudhakaran745 remember, the allied forces all planned to attack Paradis. Taking out only Marlay wouldn't have solved this problem. In fact, it would have confirmed that the Island Devils truly were a threat to be moved against immediately. Other lands already started developing anti-titan weapons and technically, Paradis was still far behind other nations. The Rumbling was devastating but it knocked everyone back to around the sesame starting point. Titans are no longer a thing, which frees the other nations from Marley's yolk, and after a few decades of limited contact, it's very likely that new alliances would be drawn up. Geopolitics is a complete mess, but it isn't unlikely for nations to war and then form peace treaties. Like Willy Tybur suggested, Eren became the "force" the people had to fight against. Even Paradis fought him. They aren't seen as the enemy in the eyes of the world. And if anyone has a grudge, everyone is rebuilding at the same time. Paradis has an army and everyone is staying on equal footing.
@@sujithsudhakaran745 the mass killing isn't justified? Eldians are kept in internment camps all over the world and Marley is considered humane compared to the others...
@@NicciGemz this makes sense if the world had any Chace of stopping the rumbling with the technology they had even with anti titan weaponry it didn't make a dent in the wall titans . The wall titans are way stronger than the normal titans and the devastation of the allied fleet and Marley would've proved the world just that and after that parady could've easily gained the same amount of time eren gave them with the full rumbling till they developed weapons strong enough and this time could be used to develop parady and still have an insane wall titan army on their side unlike the current situation where they are pretty much fucked when the world recovers in a few decades
@@NicciGemz eren didn't do it for the eldeans he did it for his friends he probally killed more eldeans than the whole world and king fritz is to be blamed for the eldeans suffering because he left them behind
@@supernovavortex3069it is . The world made up there mind that everyone on the island should be dead and declared war . They had no interest in being peaceful with them. They was gonna genocide a whole island of people that didn’t even know they existed
@@perritoshido5845 well the theme of the story is not about doing what’s right it’s about what’s best . And doing the best thing for the sake of your people and the ones you love isn’t gonna be the right thing
Karl Fritz: If you attack us and interrupt our peace, i’ll start the rumbling and flatten the world Marley: *commits horrible hate crimes against eldians and sends titan shifters to interrupt their peace* Eren: *begins the rumbling* Marley: WHAT?! 😱😱😱😱
@@0ijm3409fiwrekj So if you and your family were a casualty of a war you were never a part of and never wanted to be a part of, would you still justify it?
@yourboi1842 as someone in Politics, it's always best to get ahead of bad news that was leaked, so you can get your spin as the first message. People rarely change with evidence that counters their previous assumptions
Right but he still murdered innocent citizens, he could've listened to Gabi and just attacked all the worlds militaries, or at least given a second chance to the regular citizens once they witnessed the power. Children and innocents should not suffer because of their idiot leaders.
To be fair, Willy Tybur declared war on Paradis. That was basically the green light for Eren’s act of terrorism on Liberio. Had no one declared war, Paradis would’ve probably stayed passive. Marley poked the sleeping bear, and when it got mauled by it, it then started complaining.
To be even more fair, Willy Tybur declaring war was part of Zeke's plan. Zeke and Eren worked together to create the circumstances in which Zeke could escape, they could reach paradis and cripple Marley's army. After Willy declared war peace was almost impossible, but it was Eren and Zeke who were responsible for that situation.
Here Marley was the one who had poked the bear...so the destruction of Marley could still be justified...but what about other nations who had no part in it??
Yes but he never ment to go through with it just as a thing to keep the rest of the world away from the island and killing him and his people on the island for a short time of peace.
Your forgetting the part where the entire world literally hate eldians, they tortured and killed them for enjoyment. And what about the part where just about the entire world sides with Marley, throws titans at them, destroyed 2 walls killed how many? Seems well deserved, innocent or no they still believe in this. Even the eldians in Marley hate the other eldians. Like what?
If this was true, then Eren wouldn’t have been able to do the rumbling in the first place, he wouldn’t even have the founding titan. The only reason he has the founding titan are from the eldian restorationists in Marley and Eren Kruger giving the founding titan to his dad Grisha. If the whole world hated Paradis, then how did they form an alliance with the azmabito? Who helped them modernise and allowed them to improve their technology such as anti personnel idk gear and railways. The volunteers themselves were all from nations conquered by Marley (apart from Yelena who was just a marleyan). And let’s not forget the obvious fact that you saying “the whole world” is a total exaggeration, I mean it’s like generalising and saying the whole of ww2 Germany hated Jews, (a lot of the world was in fact pretty anti semetic back then and only fought Germany because of their defence pact with Poland and other countries. But what I’m trying to say is, you shouldn’t generalise because that is how you become a racist that is like “all white people are privileged racists” or “all Arabic people are terrorists” or “all blacks people are theirs. None of which being true. Ok have a good day 😊
First of all not the entire world hated eldians as there is a group that wants to bring freedom to eldians in the continent of Marley. Also it was Marley who destroyed the walls so if anyone deserved to be fully destroyed it’s the nation of Marley. And finally the only reason eldians in Marley hate the islanders is because they are indoctrinated to do so.
Except it’s not “the entire world” that hates Eldians. We’ve seen multiple times throughout the series how there are those outside the walls that are completely innocent and have no malice towards Eldians like Ramzi or Falco. You can t fully justify the rumbling when there are still purely innocent individuals being killed by it.
@Skep Abbas 1. kruger never had the founding titan. 2. Generalizing in this situation isn't that far off, sure the Paradis residents had some support from outside sources, however in the grand scheme of things, the entire world did declare war on an island because the people have the ability to become titans, Which is really ridiculous considering that titans are being phased out of being a threat anyways. Even other eldians hate the islanders because of the fact that they got left behind or are just straight up brainwashed like Gabi. Sure not the entire world but about 99.9% of the world agree that the island inhabitants need to be eradicated
@@tristanabarca6249 1. My bad about saying founding titan, but the sentiment remains the same. If Kruger didn’t give Grisha attack titan then he couldn’t steal the founder. 2. 99.9% is a huge overestimate for sure, that’s really all I have to say. There was even organisations show in the show that wanted to help Eldians outside of paradis because they didn’t believe that they deserved to be persecuted. If anything, it’s like saying the USA in 20th century should’ve have been nuked because of how they were treating African Americans, (but let’s also nuke the African Americans as well). Let’s say you was in this world, 99% you’d be born outside of Paradis, whether you was raised as a child to hate eldians or not. You’d just be another casualty along with all your family. Furthermore, with this same logic, would it have been fair for the Eldian empire to have been eradicated for all their crimes against humanity and genocide to none eldians? At the end of the day it all becomes a simple numbers game of which is more moral or correct,Paradis going away or the rest of the world. And morally would you rather kill a hundred people or a million
That is not how war justification works at all. Any leader of a country has a duty to protect their people. When Tybur declared war on Paradis, Eren had a duty as a leader of his people to defend them by any means necessary.
First of all no, that's not how it works, it's not always justified to protect your country over everything else, and second of all Eren wasn't the leader of his country, Historia was. Like let's say that a meteor is about to fall on the Earth, you are the president of the country the meteor is about to fall on, you have 2 options, 1. Misdirect the meteor so it falls on the other side of the Earth and destroys every country except yours, or 2. Shoot at the meteor and break it apart, but the falling shattered pieces will still land on your country and destroy all of it, what should you do? If you pick the first option you are a psychopath with a primitive and tribalistic mindset.
@@VaasMontenegro12 Dude, most fans here are kids who just simp for Eren regardless of his actions. And then come the actual adults who are just as stupid as a kid. Its useless to tell them what's right or wrong.
@@VaasMontenegro12 It is how it works. Eren was the de-facto leader, Paradis' fate was left to him. Your example is a bad example because it presumes that the meteor is just random chance when we know AOT's case is very different. Marley invaded Paradis knowing full well that the rumbling was a possibility. They then tried to set up a coalition to destroy Paradis island. For Eren, it's either protect Paradis, the place where he grew up and has the people he love or let Paradis die. For Eren, Paradis outweighs the rest of the world. If you live in Paradis, Eren is justified. If you live outside of Paradis, Eren is unjustified. Eren's plan was 80% rumbling when he should have gone 100% rumbling as seen in the after credits.
@@wowmazin4399 If you live in Paradis, Eren is justified... if you're a selfish nationalistic prick that only cares about themselves that is, yeah sure. Also that's exactly why I picked the meteor example, because it shows how flawed the logic of "I have to do everything for my country first and not care about the people of other countries", people from other countries are people too you know, with families just like you. So the needs of the many should outweigh the needs of the few, and if you're thinking rationally and not emotionally, you should always sacrifice your country to save the rest of the world in scenarios like this, it doesn't matter if it's a meteor or if it's the rumbling and the rest of the world oppressed Eldians, that literally doesn't matter, the fact that you did something wrong first doesn't justify the other side doing something even more wrong to you back. Most of the world was innocent too, billions of innocent people don't deserve to die because of the selfish decisions of a few thousand important political leaders and military command. Also I like how you people keep saying "the world brought this on themselves because they attacked Paradis, knowing the rumbling was a possibility" but all of you conveniently forget that this all only happened because Grisha stole the founding titan and gave it to Eren, the normal kings of Paradis were unable to do the rumbling because of the vow renouncing war, and Marley knew that, the rumbling was only a possibility because the founding titan was in Eren's hands, so they made a calculated decision that they might be able to retake the founder before Eren activates the rumbling, because if they had just left him then Eren could use the rumbling whenever he wants, which is a really unstable situation, or he could even use the threat of the rumbling to conquer all other nations and oppress them. And to top it all off, if was Eren from the future that manipulated Grisha into stealing the founding titan in the first place, which set all of this in motion, so in fact it was all Eren's fault from the beginning. Since you like the rumbling so much, I hope something like the rumbling happens IRL and you and your friends and family and country are one of the ones that get killed.
Killing innocent people who have no involvement is not nor will it ever be "self defense". That's like saying if I ever get attacked I have the right to murder my attackers entire family, I do not. Its called murder, not self defense.
Some random tribe in the middle of nowhere attack eldia? Did Some tiny island nation far out sea attack eldia? Did a little snowy village attack eldia??? The rumbling is stupid because it decides that EVERYONE should die for Marley and and some other militaries actions. If YOU were the one crushed under the foot of monsters instead of safe in your home would still be singing this same tune?
@@RealAureliusCaesar Including the ( Theoretical ) tiny tribes and villages with no say in any war schemes. Its easy for you to say the rumbling is good while safe in your home, but say that from under the foot of a titan.
@@RealAureliusCaesar Genocide can never be justified. Attack military bases, captiols, weapons, anything but random people who did nothing wrong. Even if every nation against Paradis had to be wiped out, did he also need to go out of his way to eliminate tiny places and tribes with no power whatsoever?
Base it on historical hypotheticals, but wasn't Hiroshima and Nagasaki effectively the same in intention and nature? Both events ultimately couldn't be stopped and was devastating yet not utilized to its full force to send a message. I am all for sticking it to the idiot Marleyian president that painted Paradis as a haven for demons, but while Japan holds a vastly different ideology revolving around honor- Marley is effectively America in this situation while Paradis is Japan. A world power vs an isolated country focused on retaliation. It saddens me to agree with you on this, especially because of the lack of options available to finish things on good terms with both parties intact.
There's this little thing called Dominance and Conquering, that I think our boy Eren should learn. Man became a god and decided to genocide rather than conquer.
@@Wizkid_Utopia America wasn't trying to genocide Japan for the giggles, Japan, who were more military advanced than the US in the first 6 months, actually f around and it found out.
@@genghiskhan5701 There are parallels you and I notice between the two events, however distinct they may be. I agree on the basis that America didn't try to nuke Japan for "giggles"; rather, they wished to send a message, "Don't fuck with us." Hiroshima and Nagasaki were effective in deterring the Japanese government, at the time, to either surrender or see what happens if the U.S really tries to bomb their cities (Fat Man and Little Boy exploded in the air, causing less damage than if they detonated on the ground-)
The Rumbling and both nuclear bombings are akin to the same principle; destruction to send a message, rather than completely annihilate. Otherwise, the rumbling would've continued all throughout Marley with no intention of ceasing, what with the army of Colossals and Marley's ineffective arms.
Doing smale scale rumbling would secure the island up to a year. The world would attack Paradise right after Eren's death/Historia taking the founding titan and being unable to use it's power due to Karl Fritz's oath. That was also confirmed in anime. Oh, and one of Eren's points was ensuring that no child would ever have to eat their oarent again (inheriting a titan) and that there will be no more titans in the world. What Eren refused to do was sacrificing anyone for a mere promise of a piece that would be broken right after his eyes close
@@RealAureliusCaesar he wasn't the hero Eldians deserved, he was the hero Eldians needed. And for anyone saying the world attacked paradis anyway a few years later clearly have no idea how long does it take to populate the earth, especially when most of those who left were newsy freed Eldians. The war came to Paradis almost 2000 years later, as seen by growth of Eren's tree, and it was not "devil of Paradise must pay" kind of war, it was brand new war created by people who never heard about titans, a war for resources.
@@dmaxwell910901 its already established in the story that the entire world collectively hates the Eldians regardless of where they are from and they all agreed to genocide Paradis Eldians too Eren simply fought back
As long as Eldia exists, with the potential to become Titans, there will be forces seeking to use the Power of the Titans for themselves. The only solutions are to kill either all Eldians or everyone else, so I would absolutely initiate the Rumbling to save everyone I know and love from a terrifying fate as a slave/Titan or being erased entirely. Tl;dr the final solution is okay if it’s to save my friends and family
@@Jnwogai would. most people in that situation would. you are answering this from the perspective of a person watching the show but imagine you are an eldian from paradis. would you allow yourselves to be killed for people you have never met?
@@jyotirani8187and worse then that will you forgive those who kept u in prison in your whole life and they hate you for no reason they want to kill u for no reason killing the whole world is better than seeing your family and friends die they litteraly said eldiens are devils in their whole life then when eren showed what is meaning of devil now they are saying we made a mistake thats unforgivable
I mean the world literally decided to start war against paradise while paradis had no idea they even existed. Typhur started the war and Eren just ended it. Not to mention King Fritz literally threatened that he would start the rumbling if they hurt Eldians, and what did they do? They hurst Eldians, at this point they sealed their own fate and they still acted shocked. GET RUMBLED, STAY HUMBLED PEOPLE
EXACTLY! Also can we appreciate how actually humble King Fritz is? With a power like rumbling, instead of crushing their enemies, he instead led his people to an island and isolated themselves from the whole world and there he gave the world a warning.
@@youvebeenhitbyasmoothcriminal hiding away in an island is the least he could do after thousands of years of making the whole earth hell for non-Eldians. If not, the next Eldian King and all the Kings after that would continue probably another million years of roping and t0rturing non-Eldians. The Wall King just happened to not be a psychopath after generations of psychopathic Kings, and turned Eldians into good non-warring people by wiping out their memories. If it wasn't for the memory wiping, Eldians would be roping and unaliving the whole world right now. The way you guys think is so one-sided and narrow, you can't think outside of the perspective the anime showed you. Try to not put yourself in the main character's shoes, because guess what you're NOT the main character.
Justifying the rumbling is the equivalent of the world giving you an unjustified threat and you deciding that you're going to nuke the world vecausr of it. Marley is certainly not the good guy, but even choosing to indiscriminantly commit OMNICIDE is is something where I can spend an hour listing all of the reasons it's a bad idea and I'd still not be done. Justifying the rumbling is incredibly shortsighted.
It's a more complex moral question than that. A better way to think about it is this: You live in a house with your partner and two children. Your next door neighbour household has a husband and wife and three children. The couple have guns and are shooting at your house and they kill one of your children. They've also raised their kids to hate your family and will want to kill you too when they grow up however one of their kids thinks its wrong what they are doing to you. All you have to fight back with is a grenade that will kill everyone in the other house. Do you use it? Or do you let them kill you and your family? Even though there is more 'innocent' members in their household (the three children) would you do it or not? The numbers of innocents should factor in but if you distill it down to small numbers the morals still need to make sense for the argument to be correct. We also don't have to factor in that your families great, great ancestor killed some of the other families great great ancestors as sins of the father is morally bankrupt. I'm not saying Eren is right, but it isn't anywhere near as simple as people make it out to be.
Problem is if they do a small scale rumbling it only lengthens the problem, if Eren only decided to destroy the global fleet across the sea it’s only a matter of time before the worlds powers build their militaries back up within a decade or two and launch another full scale invasion of the island, plus Paradis won’t have the founding titan and a titan of royal blood to protect them anymore by then so their essentially screwed unless they destroy the whole world. (Obviously not trying to justify a full scale rumbling)
Not to mention Willy had already united the rest of the world against Eldia. Other nations lost their leaders during Liberio. There was no making amends.
If they went with the og plan, Zeke would be fed to Historia & eren to someone else so the’d still have the titan shifters needed plus the island would also be building up while the global alliance would be repairing.
Its funny because thats exactly what happened hahaha he just could have done the mini rumbling and he would have accomplished the same but with less innocent people dying. Eren looks like the biggest clown in the last chapter. No master plan, just a suicidal maniac
@@PrimeMatix13 no they would die because technology would have already advanced and titans would be obsolete the rumbling was the only way for survival
Marley announced that they want to try to destroy Paradis so tbh if I was someone living there I would support Eren with everything I can to protect my family and friends. Don't matter how much have to die for this. If they try to kill the people I love they deserve to die.
So ig it goes the other way right? If you kill someone else's beloved, then you and the rest of yall deserve to die right? That's what's so funny about human bias. When it goes your way, we are all quick to judge. When it goes the other way, we as humans try to bargain
What’s wrong with getting those who may have nothing important to do to have something to think about? You can’t just not want the opposing side to state their argument, that’s immature as hell. Honestly the worst thing is people on a high horse like you who think that avoiding debates about something is good
What Spike said, most of AoT's fanbase isn't even teenagers anymore. We were teenagers when the first season came out, but that was 10 years ago, we are all well into ours 20s, calm down.
The war is starting , the rumbling is the only method for the people in island to survive the war. It is about survival, thats why I respect Floch and Eren, they understand
@@diamondmasterandwillytheca2642you are wrong, marley believe eldians started 2000 years ago. So, we are returning the favour. Then, how would it be any different.
It wasnt about ego, marley was already on the cusp of losing their military advantage because of enemy technological advancements. But zeke and reiner planted the idea in magath's head that they can capture the founding titan power and that if they did then they would be supreme forever
This is the first anime where I sided with the “bad guy” in the end. They try to point you to the bad guy (eren), for starting the rumbling, but never point out that Marley attacked first and wanted the coordinate from the royal family. Knowing Marley they would’ve used the rumbling as a plan to their advantage if eren didn’t use it first. I also feel this way with Annie where I was annoyed that after all the horrible things she did to the people of paradis (same with Reiner and Bertolt) Mikasa and Armin ally with them to take out Eren. Like they can never justify what tf they did especially Annie
While I am on Eren’s side, I am sane enough to realize that what he is doing is purely evil and unjustifiable. It’s quite literally mass genocide, there is no logic to defend that. However, I am a firm believer that you must do whatever it takes to ensure the safety of the people you love, and in Eren’s sake, the only way he can truly stop his people from being killed or ostracized for another two thousand years, is to eliminate the enemy entirely, and on a smaller scale, I would not hesitate to do the same if it meant saving my family. The Rumbling is just one massive case of “it’s us or them,” and Eren chose them.
Eren could've stopped at Marley, and give Paradis a chance to make amends with the other nations who were oppressed by Marley as well. Sure, Marley gets genocided, but no one likes Marley, so no love lost.
Are we not gonna mention that he only had one shot to do it. I mean his head was literally shot off so it’s not like he could of done a small scale one and threaten them to do it again when people would of know he was dead
Ironic how the kings says that after his family literally fucked over everyone by raping, enslaving and killing non Eldians That's like if post WW2 Germany had a leader after Hitler who threatened to kill the rest of the Jews if they seeked retribution I love how yall are so one sided that you forget that Eldia started this in the first place
It’s amazing how people think the warning of the rumbling made by the king was real and that Marley knew about it Only the Tybur family knew of the warning, and they also knew it was fake
It had already been established that the goal of the global alliance was nothing short of the complete extermination of Paradis/Eldians. By this point it was also established that the world's military advances were making the titans obsolete. This was the only thing keeping the Eldians alive, and they were losing even that. What Eren did is indefensible, but it's understandable.
Marley actively tried to destroy all of Paradise and teamed up with the other nations of the world to acomplish that goal; all Eren is doing right now is just returning the favor. They tried to destroy his world so now he's destroying theirs
Without question No contest Armored titan even admitted to eren that LITERALLY THE ONLY FUCKING reason MARLEY attacked THEM FIRST was literally just t f*ck around and find out They wanted the smoke THEY ASKED FOR IT
Eren didn’t have a choice tbh. Paradis was going to get attacked anyways, no matter what they did, as the world only saw them as monsters. Erens hand was forced because the world was so full of hatred towards paradis that even being peaceful would have done nothing, as Marley’s only comeback is “your island devils and you should pay for your sins that never really happened and happened thousands of years ago but somehow that means you all have to die”. It’s like the same reasoning as we should kill every modern German just because their ancestors gassed the Jews, like it makes no logical sense.
They did really happen though we saw them in Ymir’s memories. And the eldian empire lasted for 2000 years it didn’t happen 2000 years ago. The empire has only been not in power for like 90 years. Most people still alive probably had parents who directly suffered under their rule. Obviously that still doesn’t justify their actions towards eldians but trying to act like their suffering should just be forgotten and moved on from when it’s been less time for them then the civil war in America is ridiculous.
@@kamronspencer4910I think the eldian empire collapsed over a hundred years as king died then it was passed to reis family? For about 2-3 generations? Right Reis’s dad, the brother, and Frita for like a year or two
@@Huppy1234567 the ties family is the fritz family their was no changing of who was inheriting it. And it’s been like 100 years maybe 110 or so at this point in the story but 100 at the beginning
That's a naive way of lookin since isayma didn't introduce any other nations except Marley amd fully explain it, again small rumbling or directed towards Marley even thou in both situation innocent neutral people are getting k, full scale has no justification if you comsifsr eren as a morally good character then that's an issue, he's a fantastic character but evil, he's saving himself by killing more people, since we don't know any other opinions outside Marley it will never be justified
Like Jean said, the world picked a fight and lost. The rest of the world knew the elf Ian’s had the power of the rumbling, yet they kept sending pure titans. It was either the eldians or the world that hated them
@Krystian Gomułka It's absolutely fucked up what Eren is doing but I can understand him. If my mom or any of my siblings were in danger of being killed, it's hard to not commit such atrocities for the people you love. Killed or be killed.
See, the problem is that if it is only small scale, it will only cause the cycle of hatred to progress. They were literally going to be attacked not too long after the start of season 4. It has to be all or nothing or else people will just try to blow up Eldia once they feel they have the power to do so, and then Eldia will strike back, so on and so forth. That and Eren is a victim of his own future
Even if they destroyed the outside world, all they done was make the cycle of hatred smaller. Soon people who wanted to see the outside world would be bullied/killed just like from before the loss of wall Maria
@@lorenzovalencia6816 Here Marley is the one who needs to be rebuilt not Eldia. Eldia is carrying out the genocide in Marley, aka America bombing Japan
Hold on, eren says he killed roughly 80 pwrcent of the population, but also that the population of the world and paradis were about the same, so maybe their world is just smaller then ours? Still, in terms of numbers, they arent even. But, all the globe wanted paradis gone, and they tried to wipe paradis out, so it makes sense the paradis would want to wipe out the world. Plus in terms of the horror the people on paradis endured, theu would be a lot more vengeful then the eldians, and rightfully so, the titans are monstrous. I dont think it is that horrible Eren wanted to wipe out eldie, because from his perspective, they are monsters who turn regular people into titans that have killed his people for centuries, and he has been put through hell because of them for a very long time.
Actually it can be by either protecting the lives on the island and giving them the chance to advance and fight back while if he didn’t marley would’ve killed them and likely inslaved them plus titans would likely be useless during this time and marley would cause the death of more than amount wren did
Yeah seriously how the hell is an island bigger than Madagascar supposed to take on everyone in the known World. Since we don’t know what’s in the West aside some small land that Marley had.
Even if they pulled off a small scale rumbling I’m pretty sure there was talks about how they’d become a common enemy of whoever was aligned with Marley. It was a edged sword so I’m not surprised Erin decided to send it
To be fair the entire world essentially declared war on the island, wanted to exterminate them, and subjected them to constant titan attacks. Also no one probably declared a formal surrender.
The entire world’s governments declaring to be your enemy does not justify murdering every man woman and child on the planet. Billions of civilians dying because their governments were stupid is not justified in any way. Eren could have destroyed every military fleet he could, bring every eldian of the world to paradise, make all eldians able to live off very little food and become much more intelligent, and then bargained with the rest of the world to become a safe, peaceful superpower. Instead he decided to murder every child, eldian or not, living outside his home. This was not the way to go tbh
@genessab do you known how propaganda works? Also, there was a reason Willy Tybur told the "truth" about the walls. Go and listen to what he didn't say, but we know
@@soloknight7197 ah yes, the 5 year old boy on the other side of the planet deserves to be crushed to death because one guy and one government tried to rally a genocide against eldians. Can you hear yourself? In the real world, there is a country that most people hate, North Korea. Imagine if NATO decided that they wanted to destroy North Korea, would Kim Jong Un be justified in nuking the entire planet?
People also forgot that they were gonna raid eldia anyway cuz of the resources they have. Zeke was alittle surprised when he first seen odm gear and saw how it worked. Which in turn scared them as well cuz they seen how smart they are
@@gorgopareita7597 But when the newborns grow up being told stories of the evil murderous eldians, they join the war against them. There’s no option for the people of paradis but the rumbling.
@@gorgopareita7597 The newborns in eldia didn't ask to be killed. Infact, nobody in eldia had any idea what was going on and they still attacked them lmao
Some parts maybe? Because marley started the war but eren finished the war by either (A.) killing the last marleyans or (B.) have his friends cut off his head to establish peace guess which route they went?
The author basically created this situation were peace is not possible at all and the only way for the island to not be wiped out was to kill every single person out of it, with no middle ground And somehow the people of the island are in the wrong for not wanting to get killed "Self defense is bad" apparently, lol
If you were outside the walls you’d be cursing Eren’s name right up until you were crushed. The only reason anyone sees Eren in any sort of positive light is because he was the narratives main focus. His motives are understandable but by no means justifiable, the rumbling goes well beyond self defense and into the realm of mindless slaughtering.
@@xenozeno061 yeah and if I was inside the walls I would be cursing Marley's name for killing me for no reason other than mindless distruction That's exactly my criticism of the author of this series
The problem is that people are so simple-minded they don't thing about every tiny detail and nuance in the history, the author chose a specific period of technological advancement in history as one of the points why things unfolded with not choice and no way around about anything and that is there for a good reason. For instance, aircraft developments and bombs are discussed in a scene between Zeke and top officials of military and season 4 opening showcases atomic bombs exploding, which is not obvious but I don't think there is any other type of yet known explosion that works like that with an air-shockwave able to do that. So it seems clear to me that people go on about discussing a lot of stuff without ever realizing many of the nuances that should be considered when discussing the topic.
@@xenozeno061 I sure agree with you that if we actually *were* outside Paradis we would think that but when saying that you are actually proving the point that the guy made there, because you putting youself on one side shoe's and the other guy is putting himself on the other side shoe's. You see? I'm not completely disagreeing with your other point tho, but it would be good if you read my previous comment as well. Btw, the point of we watching as a third-party is that we can discuss the thing not being at anyone's side so your point is as pointless as saying that you stand with Eren decision but is worthwhile just as much to discuss what was the "right thing" to do. But let's amp up the discussing to arguments using the plot problems and not appellative things such "you say that because you are not x".
People are still busy discussing the morality of the Rumbling when I still haven't seen these UA-cam Saints of Morality present a FEASIBLE alternative to Eren's plan where: A. Peace is achieved before Eren's time is up (less than 4 years?) B. Peace is achieved before Zeke's time is up (less than one year) C. Historia and others don't need to eat a titan shifter anymore D. Paradis' safety is GUARANTEED without other nations' retaliation E. End the "cYcLe oF hAtReD"
@@wackywildwill3114 you read manga but still can't summarize the story. They litterally show you how marley treat innocent eldians without titan power just because their ancestor history. Even when the eldians use titan power for marley sake (reiner, annie, berthold, even zeke who sacrifies his parents) they still hate them and only use them for war tool. Don't forget grisha's sister ended up being dogs food purely because of their hatred to eldians.
So the argument is that, since there is no way to guarantee a perfect solution in which world peace is achieved is less than a decade, global genocide is a valid answer?
TLDR: There was no alternative, genociding was the only option. Talk no jutsu doesn't work, and it doesn't work in history you naive children (Not talking to OP) That's because there ISNT a feasible alternative, there isn't even an alternative, it's as simple as I get genocided or they get genocided. Even if we run with the idea that Eren could just snap titans out of existence, the fuck is he going to do now? Do people naively believe that every world power is just going to be like OH HE SAID TITANS ARE GONE SO THEY MUST BE GONE. Of course they aren't going to buy they shit, they'll continue to paint them as Demons and then proceed to genocide them and they would be completely useless because the only ones with powers remaining would be Ackermans. This doesn't even take into account the cycle of hatred that isn't just going to fucking vanish when titans stop existing, people are still going to remember the hatred their grand parents felt and they are going to act on it. People seem to think that this history is exclusive to AoT when it really isn't, it's been pretty prevalent in HUMAN history, I mean you look at the most recent case and it was the Jews and the Holocaust. Would it have been fair to say JEWS, STOP HATING GERMANS THEY APOLOGIZED! No, that's fucking insanity, a jew that survived the holocaust is not going to forgive a german that easily, and this is true for all of human atrocities, so I do not understand why people think that all problems between Eldians and the rest of the world would be solved. IMO, Genociding the rest of the world is the safest and the most logical step to take, they've been killing Eldians off like cattle and treating them as slaves, so it is only to be expected that the Eldians just kill everyone else who STARTED THE FIGHTING, sure their ancestors 2000 years ago did some fucked shit, but that was 2000 years ago and they've been oppressed since then.
The 50 year plan was an alternative. If Historia willingly accepts to take on the responsibility of eating Beast Titan to carry on the plan, then their is nothing wrong with it. Historia is a consenting adult. She can do what she thinks is right. It's not Eren's place to decide for her. A consenting adult choosing to sacrifice themselves willingly will always be a better plan than Mass Genocide and killing millions of innocent children.
If I had gone through what Eren went through I would do the exact same thing. Seek vengeance and attempt to create a world where my loved ones could live the rest of their days peacefully. His world could never return to how it once was before the walls were destroyed and became a victim of society as did many others. I suppose it becomes a question of where each individual’s morals stand in. If Armin had received the founder I’m sure there could’ve been an alternative approach but Armin is more empathetic and compassionate even with the enemy where as Eren only displays those values to the people he loves. However going through everything Eren has endured it’s difficult to empathize with a world that treated him and his loved ones as something disposable rather than as an equal. I’m only paraphrasing I forget the name of the character from the anime but he said it best when everyone was retreating that the rumbling is a product created by them for treating the islanders as devils and it’s come for them now. Moral of the story is empathize with those around you regardless of social status, race, background etc. in death we are all equals but let’s show some compassion to fellow men and women while we’re still kicking. Very good anime never would’ve imagined an ending like this.
There’s no war crimes cause I doubt the Geneva Convention even exists. But if you really want to blame someone it should be Marley for poking the bear. Their Lust for domination it’s what led to their interactions with Eren. Then there’s Willy Tybur who basically set up eren.
The king of the walls: If you kill eldians, I will start the rumbling and kill you all.
Marley: *kills eldians*
*rumbling starts*
Marley: *surprised pikachu face*
I thought the kind said he was killing everyone INSIDE the walls if they act a fool?
@@bloodyxmarry nah he told them to leave the Eldians alone
@@kgosi5230
As punishment for the crimes of the Eldia people and specifically his family. He thought letting his people waste away in fear was for the best.
@Tim O'Neill kinda pissed me offthat it was the crimes of the royals andthe civilians were victims.
@@Toneill029the King **said** he would defend paradis using the rumbling, but in actuality he was keeping everyone holed up in a fancy prison until the day they eventually get genocided
Remember in episode 5 season 4, Tybur literally declared war on Paradis and wanted to form a global alliance BEFORE Eren attacked NOT because Eren attacked.
Yes that's true
Careful. UA-cam Saints of Morality would disagree to that. Lmao
@@rcylarga Two things can be true at the same time. Yes Marley is pure evil. That being said Eren could have easily spared the women and children like Ramsey and that wouldn’t have hurt the survival of paradise even one bit. So Eren is evil for that too.
@@GoobertTheThird good points. Care to explain (in AoT context) how the innocents will be spared? Would love to hear your detailed plans in mind without forgetting that Zeke is dying soon and Willy just declared war on Paradis.
@@GoobertTheThird you are the example of thinking ideally, but not realistically. Good point, having that idea is easy. To implement that idea? Impossible
It was made VERY clear that the rumbling would happen if marley attacked, they attacked and the rumbling happened
the king was bluffing
@@kittycatwithinternetaccess2356Eren wasn't. 😂
@@thesamuraimanbest i read today
They attacked cause even threatened the world with it. It's very much like if ISIS some how got its hand nuclear weapons. Every nation would probably attack them
@@kittycatwithinternetaccess2356Regardless of a bluff or not, the rumbling was the ultimatum they were given and they still went through with it
They killed Erwin. The rumbling is completely justified.
sasha too
Yeah they killed Erwin. They deserve to burn in hell
After Levi and Erwin were separated I gave up on humanity. Fuck peace and love bring our duo back
but the rumbling killed Hange :(
@@svarchauhan2471Sasha sex scenes
as a Hawaiian I can say that, we are currently working on our own rumbling
What's really inside those volcanoes?
Lava Titans, just like in Moana.
I saw the license plates when I was there. Do ya thing Eren.
As a fellow Hawaiian I as one of many agree on this statement. This is payback
Guess I'm moving to Hawaii post-haste then
Bro they would get nuked by the rest of the world😂😂😂
If someone is willing to take away my freedom, I won't hesitate to take away theirs.
Eren Yeager
Cringe
@@terribletimes902 You're cringe. Seriously, get a life Cringe kid.
@@terribletimes902 no one asked for your opinion fatherless kid "cringe" 🤡
@@terribletimes902ok Mr slave
@@terribletimes902 shut up
Everyone wants to take the moral high ground until it's a question of us or them.
And those type people are idealist. They hope everything works out just fine , but come time to put in the action to get what they hope for they all of sudden have a change of heart
It's not that question. You would be played like a fiddle by a clever populist if you actually think like this (like many people were under a certain man in Germany one time)
@@savage7882well, it was like that during world war 2 and world war 1, and most of wars actually.
The human race ourselves are children that just grow and upgrade or downgrade
Ain’t none of us on this planet are Adults😭😭
@@vincentwilliams2314no they are not you fing goof.
This why you don’t have that type of power. If someone like you existed in politics your own people would kill you.
Anyone willing to crash out is an idiot. A small scale rumbling causes a better way to show power. It’s how America does things, you show power you do not go all out.
They fucked around and they found out
I'm sorry, are you excusing genocide?
@@EnderBroadcast Yes.
Applies for both sides
@@perritoshido5845 Whoever strikes first is in the wrong lil buddy
@@EnderBroadcastAnime fans what did you expect lol
Get rumbled stay humbled
LMAO
Bars
Love ur Sokka pfp lmfao
Not bro they got pummeled
I loved when Eren said that
The whole world declared war, then the whole world is catching hands
😂😂😂😂😂 boy did they caught it bad. Stomp em in da nutz
yeah but you don't kill civilians in war
@@cannonbyrd1755 didn't stop marley
@@DrthRevan and? doesnt mean you have to stoop to that level, L take. easly could've won by just attacking millitary. and eren wouldnt die because his friends would have no reason to stop him.
@cannonbyrd1755 his view is his friends can't truly be free as long as there is humanity who still view them as devils and still , and thats the only way he sees fit for his loved ones to be free
"it's them or us" ill always choose us
That's exactly the same mindset Marley had
Except Marley was brainwashed and paradise wasn't 😅. This should really open the eyes of the average person. Are your beliefs YOUR beliefs
@@adamcontreras7915 marley is being paranoid, like imagine country next to you harnessing nuclear weapon and stuff
Well in this case choosing "us" will lead to Paradis fighting itself after the rumbling finishes until the nation collapses anyway
@@kccullait always would have. But id rather civil war and future seperations than a total anhiliation from outside powers with unbeatable tech.
King of Eldia: the wall are made out of big guy titans lol
Marley: *proceeds to attack and kill eldians*
Eren: well well well
The thing is even eren wasn’t trying to justify it. He just refused to allow the burdens that fell to him to be passed down to anyone else. He’s continuing the rumbling because he already knows how it ends
Eren isnt trying to justify it, the fans are
Exactly. It's fact that if the rumbling didn't happen they would not have a future. None of the shit plans they were coming up with would have worked. This hatred has been running two thousand years. There's is no possiblity of reasoning with Marley. So just give up and get euthanized and die out? Never.
@@guywithtrash231 because it is something that you can justify.
Just like the bimbs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki
@@guywithtrash231 how is it not justified the world literally genocide paradise in the future it's literally paradise or the world. How is wrong to choose Paradise?
@@hawkeyemihawkgettingmoneylordlike you said, it's paradis or the world, even though i agree that Marley is one evil country, i still wouldn't tried to justified what Eren did to the rest of the world, and like what Eren himself said, the death of the eldians pale in comparison to the deaths of the rest of the world
Bro literally left out so much information to make this point better 😂
There is no information that could excuse killing all those innocent people who had been brainwashed by their governments.
What info?
marleyan government was trying to attack eldia but that still doesn't make it right to kill civilians
@@funnychannel5068There is none, that doesn’t make the full rumbling necessary. He's talking out his ass.
@@insidious7329 ah I see what you mean 😂
If you're Eren and the island loves you and you love these people but the world hates you and you're given only 2 options, you'd do the same
Eren also hated the people of the world lol
No, I’m pretty sure I would not have wanted to kill innocent people who did nothing wrong
@@BunnyFlowers Both options end up killing people. Either you do it to save your people or they do it and kill all of what you love.
@@Sweetdude64 He didn't. He was simply disappointed because he thought freedom awaits beyond the sea.
But what he found was the same.
@@remveel2443 and he hates people who takes away that freedom. He wasn't disappointed in the lack of freedom, he was disappointed in HUMANITY.
"Kill my mom, I'll rumble yours"
-Eren probably
But now we know he killed his own mom
@@rkstudio6339how?
@@rkstudio6339True, but if Berthold wasn't there, he wouldn't have to go down that path.
@@thesamuraimanNah, If he can control Dina Titan, he could've saved both.
@@muhammedraashid3667nah he did on purpose to build up hatred for his past self
To be fair, when King Fritz left for the island, he made sure that he threatened the people of Marlay and everyone else that if his people weren't left alone, the Rumbling would start. In response, Marlay continued to turn Eldians into Pure Titans and drop them onto the island, indirectly attacking the people of Paradise, fo decades. And then, they launched a series of direct attacks for years.
Willy Tybur also gathered allied diplomats and openly declared war on the island and its people. At what point is enough enough?
Is the Rumbling justified? I guess it depends on which side of the wall you're on, but people have a right to defend themselves
The rumbling is justified but the mass killing isn't eren could've achieved a more favorable outcome with a controlled rumbling destroying the allied fleet and even he could destroy Marley to make an example out of . What eren did was seal the fate of everyone on parady island as they will die form a combined attack in a few decades
@@sujithsudhakaran745 remember, the allied forces all planned to attack Paradis. Taking out only Marlay wouldn't have solved this problem. In fact, it would have confirmed that the Island Devils truly were a threat to be moved against immediately. Other lands already started developing anti-titan weapons and technically, Paradis was still far behind other nations.
The Rumbling was devastating but it knocked everyone back to around the sesame starting point. Titans are no longer a thing, which frees the other nations from Marley's yolk, and after a few decades of limited contact, it's very likely that new alliances would be drawn up.
Geopolitics is a complete mess, but it isn't unlikely for nations to war and then form peace treaties.
Like Willy Tybur suggested, Eren became the "force" the people had to fight against. Even Paradis fought him. They aren't seen as the enemy in the eyes of the world. And if anyone has a grudge, everyone is rebuilding at the same time. Paradis has an army and everyone is staying on equal footing.
@@sujithsudhakaran745 the mass killing isn't justified? Eldians are kept in internment camps all over the world and Marley is considered humane compared to the others...
@@NicciGemz this makes sense if the world had any Chace of stopping the rumbling with the technology they had even with anti titan weaponry it didn't make a dent in the wall titans . The wall titans are way stronger than the normal titans and the devastation of the allied fleet and Marley would've proved the world just that and after that parady could've easily gained the same amount of time eren gave them with the full rumbling till they developed weapons strong enough and this time could be used to develop parady and still have an insane wall titan army on their side unlike the current situation where they are pretty much fucked when the world recovers in a few decades
@@NicciGemz eren didn't do it for the eldeans he did it for his friends he probally killed more eldeans than the whole world and king fritz is to be blamed for the eldeans suffering because he left them behind
Dude just skipped every reason why it is and gives a "no".
Because it isn't justified
@@supernovavortex3069it is . The world made up there mind that everyone on the island should be dead and declared war . They had no interest in being peaceful with them. They was gonna genocide a whole island of people that didn’t even know they existed
Because there is no justifiable reason in existence, I fully don’t believe anyone above 11 could think Eren did the right thing
@@perritoshido5845 well the theme of the story is not about doing what’s right it’s about what’s best . And doing the best thing for the sake of your people and the ones you love isn’t gonna be the right thing
@@vincentwilliams2314 exactly. which is why its not justifiable.
Karl Fritz: If you attack us and interrupt our peace, i’ll start the rumbling and flatten the world
Marley: *commits horrible hate crimes against eldians and sends titan shifters to interrupt their peace*
Eren: *begins the rumbling*
Marley: WHAT?! 😱😱😱😱
When the Island had forgotten their memories and were minding their own business, THE WHOLE WORLD DECLARED WAR ON THEM. Absolutely justified.
Damn I need that kind of sarcasm man 😂
Except it wasn't the whole world. There were plenty of innocent people there who were against the war. They don't count?
@@BlueUncia Just as there are many Eldians who would never become titans, that are innocent.
@@0ijm3409fiwrekj at least in eldia it was just an island of those innocents of eldia are in. In the outside world, there are billions out there
@@0ijm3409fiwrekj So if you and your family were a casualty of a war you were never a part of and never wanted to be a part of, would you still justify it?
Willy Tybur told the whole world to gang up on Paradis and all of the world's generals clapped.
Then, they acted surprised when the devil they created retaliated to their actions
Funny how if tybur kept his mouth shut this probably wouldn’t have happened.
@@yourboi1842 If Willy Tybur told the truth you mean.
@yourboi1842 as someone in Politics, it's always best to get ahead of bad news that was leaked, so you can get your spin as the first message. People rarely change with evidence that counters their previous assumptions
Right but he still murdered innocent citizens, he could've listened to Gabi and just attacked all the worlds militaries, or at least given a second chance to the regular citizens once they witnessed the power.
Children and innocents should not suffer because of their idiot leaders.
I mean, even Eren himself hardly justified his own action
Yeah that's the worst part imo, even he knows he fucked up. He just couldn't see any other way out than to follow his future memories.
@@jamess.2491he just had to keep moving forward, until all his enemies were destroyed
Exactly
Because there was no other option. There was never going to be a solution where everyone was happy.
@@airwaves9611 Only Ymir knows…
The Rumbling is the literal definition of: "The more you fuck around, the more you find out..."
Like the General at Fort Slava said "We bore the object of our hatred out at them unjustly, now the monster we created is staring back at us."
I would like to correct you it is a different fort named fort salta more on that in the next episode
that wasn’t a general that was annies dad
@@jyrese117 it was definitely the commanding officer that made the speech.
Yeah I have the volume on hand, it’s the officer
To be fair, Willy Tybur declared war on Paradis. That was basically the green light for Eren’s act of terrorism on Liberio. Had no one declared war, Paradis would’ve probably stayed passive. Marley poked the sleeping bear, and when it got mauled by it, it then started complaining.
It's not terrorism its counter insurgency.
If Willy Tybur declared War, it's not terrorism anymore. Eren just respond to that war.
To be even more fair, Willy Tybur declaring war was part of Zeke's plan. Zeke and Eren worked together to create the circumstances in which Zeke could escape, they could reach paradis and cripple Marley's army. After Willy declared war peace was almost impossible, but it was Eren and Zeke who were responsible for that situation.
@kendivedmakarig215 bruh its still terrorism, the killing of ordinary people for political purposes
Here Marley was the one who had poked the bear...so the destruction of Marley could still be justified...but what about other nations who had no part in it??
I personally 100% stand with Eren and the rumbling
Eren said sorry so it's justified
Moral high ground is nothing in front of self preservation.
Well said!
It was genocide on a global level it was understandable to see why he decided to do it but not justified
Agreed
So true
Based. You’ll quickly find EVERY nation and civilization would drop the PR bullshit and do straight Hardline. If the same happens to them.
Yes, the king of eldia said quote "if you fuck with us im starting the rumbling" eren simply continued that
Yes but he never ment to go through with it just as a thing to keep the rest of the world away from the island and killing him and his people on the island for a short time of peace.
All they had to do was leave them alone and they would have stayed alive. But they just couldn't do that
@@thezerowulf2046 Marley: No man WE needed those natural resources.
He was literally called the pacifist king. I highly doubt he was going to start the rumbling.
@@Chris-yn5vf tried to stop them tho
Your forgetting the part where the entire world literally hate eldians, they tortured and killed them for enjoyment. And what about the part where just about the entire world sides with Marley, throws titans at them, destroyed 2 walls killed how many? Seems well deserved, innocent or no they still believe in this. Even the eldians in Marley hate the other eldians. Like what?
If this was true, then Eren wouldn’t have been able to do the rumbling in the first place, he wouldn’t even have the founding titan. The only reason he has the founding titan are from the eldian restorationists in Marley and Eren Kruger giving the founding titan to his dad Grisha. If the whole world hated Paradis, then how did they form an alliance with the azmabito? Who helped them modernise and allowed them to improve their technology such as anti personnel idk gear and railways. The volunteers themselves were all from nations conquered by Marley (apart from Yelena who was just a marleyan). And let’s not forget the obvious fact that you saying “the whole world” is a total exaggeration, I mean it’s like generalising and saying the whole of ww2 Germany hated Jews, (a lot of the world was in fact pretty anti semetic back then and only fought Germany because of their defence pact with Poland and other countries. But what I’m trying to say is, you shouldn’t generalise because that is how you become a racist that is like “all white people are privileged racists” or “all Arabic people are terrorists” or “all blacks people are theirs. None of which being true. Ok have a good day 😊
First of all not the entire world hated eldians as there is a group that wants to bring freedom to eldians in the continent of Marley. Also it was Marley who destroyed the walls so if anyone deserved to be fully destroyed it’s the nation of Marley. And finally the only reason eldians in Marley hate the islanders is because they are indoctrinated to do so.
Except it’s not “the entire world” that hates Eldians. We’ve seen multiple times throughout the series how there are those outside the walls that are completely innocent and have no malice towards Eldians like Ramzi or Falco. You can t fully justify the rumbling when there are still purely innocent individuals being killed by it.
@Skep Abbas 1. kruger never had the founding titan.
2. Generalizing in this situation isn't that far off, sure the Paradis residents had some support from outside sources, however in the grand scheme of things, the entire world did declare war on an island because the people have the ability to become titans, Which is really ridiculous considering that titans are being phased out of being a threat anyways. Even other eldians hate the islanders because of the fact that they got left behind or are just straight up brainwashed like Gabi. Sure not the entire world but about 99.9% of the world agree that the island inhabitants need to be eradicated
@@tristanabarca6249 1. My bad about saying founding titan, but the sentiment remains the same. If Kruger didn’t give Grisha attack titan then he couldn’t steal the founder.
2. 99.9% is a huge overestimate for sure, that’s really all I have to say. There was even organisations show in the show that wanted to help Eldians outside of paradis because they didn’t believe that they deserved to be persecuted. If anything, it’s like saying the USA in 20th century should’ve have been nuked because of how they were treating African Americans, (but let’s also nuke the African Americans as well). Let’s say you was in this world, 99% you’d be born outside of Paradis, whether you was raised as a child to hate eldians or not. You’d just be another casualty along with all your family. Furthermore, with this same logic, would it have been fair for the Eldian empire to have been eradicated for all their crimes against humanity and genocide to none eldians? At the end of the day it all becomes a simple numbers game of which is more moral or correct,Paradis going away or the rest of the world. And morally would you rather kill a hundred people or a million
That is not how war justification works at all. Any leader of a country has a duty to protect their people. When Tybur declared war on Paradis, Eren had a duty as a leader of his people to defend them by any means necessary.
First of all no, that's not how it works, it's not always justified to protect your country over everything else, and second of all Eren wasn't the leader of his country, Historia was.
Like let's say that a meteor is about to fall on the Earth, you are the president of the country the meteor is about to fall on, you have 2 options, 1. Misdirect the meteor so it falls on the other side of the Earth and destroys every country except yours, or 2. Shoot at the meteor and break it apart, but the falling shattered pieces will still land on your country and destroy all of it, what should you do? If you pick the first option you are a psychopath with a primitive and tribalistic mindset.
@@VaasMontenegro12 Dude, most fans here are kids who just simp for Eren regardless of his actions. And then come the actual adults who are just as stupid as a kid. Its useless to tell them what's right or wrong.
@@samil679 A lot of these people are engaging in highly theoretical debates of moral philosophy, kids don't do that.
@@VaasMontenegro12 It is how it works. Eren was the de-facto leader, Paradis' fate was left to him.
Your example is a bad example because it presumes that the meteor is just random chance when we know AOT's case is very different. Marley invaded Paradis knowing full well that the rumbling was a possibility. They then tried to set up a coalition to destroy Paradis island. For Eren, it's either protect Paradis, the place where he grew up and has the people he love or let Paradis die. For Eren, Paradis outweighs the rest of the world. If you live in Paradis, Eren is justified. If you live outside of Paradis, Eren is unjustified. Eren's plan was 80% rumbling when he should have gone 100% rumbling as seen in the after credits.
@@wowmazin4399 If you live in Paradis, Eren is justified... if you're a selfish nationalistic prick that only cares about themselves that is, yeah sure.
Also that's exactly why I picked the meteor example, because it shows how flawed the logic of "I have to do everything for my country first and not care about the people of other countries", people from other countries are people too you know, with families just like you. So the needs of the many should outweigh the needs of the few, and if you're thinking rationally and not emotionally, you should always sacrifice your country to save the rest of the world in scenarios like this, it doesn't matter if it's a meteor or if it's the rumbling and the rest of the world oppressed Eldians, that literally doesn't matter, the fact that you did something wrong first doesn't justify the other side doing something even more wrong to you back. Most of the world was innocent too, billions of innocent people don't deserve to die because of the selfish decisions of a few thousand important political leaders and military command.
Also I like how you people keep saying "the world brought this on themselves because they attacked Paradis, knowing the rumbling was a possibility" but all of you conveniently forget that this all only happened because Grisha stole the founding titan and gave it to Eren, the normal kings of Paradis were unable to do the rumbling because of the vow renouncing war, and Marley knew that, the rumbling was only a possibility because the founding titan was in Eren's hands, so they made a calculated decision that they might be able to retake the founder before Eren activates the rumbling, because if they had just left him then Eren could use the rumbling whenever he wants, which is a really unstable situation, or he could even use the threat of the rumbling to conquer all other nations and oppress them. And to top it all off, if was Eren from the future that manipulated Grisha into stealing the founding titan in the first place, which set all of this in motion, so in fact it was all Eren's fault from the beginning.
Since you like the rumbling so much, I hope something like the rumbling happens IRL and you and your friends and family and country are one of the ones that get killed.
I've never seen a better justification for a self defense case than this
Killing innocent people who have no involvement is not nor will it ever be "self defense". That's like saying if I ever get attacked I have the right to murder my attackers entire family, I do not. Its called murder, not self defense.
Some random tribe in the middle of nowhere attack eldia? Did Some tiny island nation far out sea attack eldia? Did a little snowy village attack eldia??? The rumbling is stupid because it decides that EVERYONE should die for Marley and and some other militaries actions. If YOU were the one crushed under the foot of monsters instead of safe in your home would still be singing this same tune?
@@ReadilyAvailibleChomper didnt they all plot to destroy paradis tho?
@@RealAureliusCaesar Including the ( Theoretical ) tiny tribes and villages with no say in any war schemes. Its easy for you to say the rumbling is good while safe in your home, but say that from under the foot of a titan.
@@RealAureliusCaesar Genocide can never be justified. Attack military bases, captiols, weapons, anything but random people who did nothing wrong. Even if every nation against Paradis had to be wiped out, did he also need to go out of his way to eliminate tiny places and tribes with no power whatsoever?
King fritz the 145th: dont mess with us or i will kill literally all of you.
The world: **messes with them**
Eren: say no more
Get rumbled stay humbled
When the entire world wants the smoke nobody can get upset about receiving it.
Eldians "Whelp, guess we'll just die then."
Death to the world, Eldia forever!
It is justified
King fritz said: I'm gonna rumble yo @$$ if you attack
Marley said: bye bye paradis
Eren said: time to kill you all
Marley said: 👁👄👁
"All I ever wanted to do was save your life,
I never wanted to grab the knife"
I SWEAR
if I loose it all, slip and fall,
I will never look away
If I loose it all, loose it all, loose it all
NOBODY KNOWS WHAT'S INSIDE OF ME
@@maceluffy5570 Ohio lyrics 💀💀
Small scale rumbling would only make them more afraid, which will end up having them take revenge, its all or nothing
Base it on historical hypotheticals, but wasn't Hiroshima and Nagasaki effectively the same in intention and nature? Both events ultimately couldn't be stopped and was devastating yet not utilized to its full force to send a message.
I am all for sticking it to the idiot Marleyian president that painted Paradis as a haven for demons, but while Japan holds a vastly different ideology revolving around honor-
Marley is effectively America in this situation while Paradis is Japan. A world power vs an isolated country focused on retaliation.
It saddens me to agree with you on this, especially because of the lack of options available to finish things on good terms with both parties intact.
There's this little thing called Dominance and Conquering, that I think our boy Eren should learn. Man became a god and decided to genocide rather than conquer.
@@Wizkid_Utopia America wasn't trying to genocide Japan for the giggles, Japan, who were more military advanced than the US in the first 6 months, actually f around and it found out.
@@genghiskhan5701 There are parallels you and I notice between the two events, however distinct they may be.
I agree on the basis that America didn't try to nuke Japan for "giggles"; rather, they wished to send a message, "Don't fuck with us."
Hiroshima and Nagasaki were effective in deterring the Japanese government, at the time, to either surrender or see what happens if the U.S really tries to bomb their cities (Fat Man and Little Boy exploded in the air, causing less damage than if they detonated on the ground-)
The Rumbling and both nuclear bombings are akin to the same principle; destruction to send a message, rather than completely annihilate. Otherwise, the rumbling would've continued all throughout Marley with no intention of ceasing, what with the army of Colossals and Marley's ineffective arms.
The rumbling was never UNJUSTIFIED
Doing smale scale rumbling would secure the island up to a year. The world would attack Paradise right after Eren's death/Historia taking the founding titan and being unable to use it's power due to Karl Fritz's oath.
That was also confirmed in anime.
Oh, and one of Eren's points was ensuring that no child would ever have to eat their oarent again (inheriting a titan) and that there will be no more titans in the world.
What Eren refused to do was sacrificing anyone for a mere promise of a piece that would be broken right after his eyes close
@@RealAureliusCaesar he wasn't the hero Eldians deserved, he was the hero Eldians needed.
And for anyone saying the world attacked paradis anyway a few years later clearly have no idea how long does it take to populate the earth, especially when most of those who left were newsy freed Eldians. The war came to Paradis almost 2000 years later, as seen by growth of Eren's tree, and it was not "devil of Paradise must pay" kind of war, it was brand new war created by people who never heard about titans, a war for resources.
Tybur literally got the entire WORLD to want to kill Paradise, Eren's only choices were to either die or spin the block and he chose the right one
So why he destroyed Azumbito too??
It was his ally lol
He got the entire world's leaders to want to. Their countries aren't hive-minds. The civilians don't deserve brutal death for that
@@dmaxwell910901 its already established in the story that the entire world collectively hates the Eldians regardless of where they are from and they all agreed to genocide Paradis Eldians too
Eren simply fought back
Like right. I support Eren decision.
@@waludalu5102 When was that established? That literally every single citizen outside of Paradis wanted them dead? Pray tell
*thinks for a second* … yes 👍🏼
As long as Eldia exists, with the potential to become Titans, there will be forces seeking to use the Power of the Titans for themselves. The only solutions are to kill either all Eldians or everyone else, so I would absolutely initiate the Rumbling to save everyone I know and love from a terrifying fate as a slave/Titan or being erased entirely.
Tl;dr the final solution is okay if it’s to save my friends and family
We need to remember that Eren is defending his World from the rest of the World.
You wouldn’t kill the whole world for your freinds
@@Jnwogai would. most people in that situation would. you are answering this from the perspective of a person watching the show but imagine you are an eldian from paradis. would you allow yourselves to be killed for people you have never met?
@@jyotirani8187and worse then that will you forgive those who kept u in prison in your whole life and they hate you for no reason they want to kill u for no reason
killing the whole world is better than seeing your family and friends die
they litteraly said eldiens are devils in their whole life then when eren showed what is meaning of devil now they are saying we made a mistake thats unforgivable
@waleedarshad2353 I totally agree with you man.
@@Jnwogait's not just about his friends.
I mean the world literally decided to start war against paradise while paradis had no idea they even existed. Typhur started the war and Eren just ended it.
Not to mention King Fritz literally threatened that he would start the rumbling if they hurt Eldians, and what did they do? They hurst Eldians, at this point they sealed their own fate and they still acted shocked.
GET RUMBLED, STAY HUMBLED PEOPLE
I agree. Don't start nothing won't be nothing.
EXACTLY! Also can we appreciate how actually humble King Fritz is? With a power like rumbling, instead of crushing their enemies, he instead led his people to an island and isolated themselves from the whole world and there he gave the world a warning.
@@youvebeenhitbyasmoothcriminal hiding away in an island is the least he could do after thousands of years of making the whole earth hell for non-Eldians. If not, the next Eldian King and all the Kings after that would continue probably another million years of roping and t0rturing non-Eldians. The Wall King just happened to not be a psychopath after generations of psychopathic Kings, and turned Eldians into good non-warring people by wiping out their memories. If it wasn't for the memory wiping, Eldians would be roping and unaliving the whole world right now. The way you guys think is so one-sided and narrow, you can't think outside of the perspective the anime showed you. Try to not put yourself in the main character's shoes, because guess what you're NOT the main character.
Justifying the rumbling is the equivalent of the world giving you an unjustified threat and you deciding that you're going to nuke the world vecausr of it. Marley is certainly not the good guy, but even choosing to indiscriminantly commit OMNICIDE is is something where I can spend an hour listing all of the reasons it's a bad idea and I'd still not be done. Justifying the rumbling is incredibly shortsighted.
@@RockinAfr0 But then you are justifying the genocide of the Eldians.
The Eldians could not have averted the genocide, Marley could, but they didn't.
It's a more complex moral question than that. A better way to think about it is this:
You live in a house with your partner and two children. Your next door neighbour household has a husband and wife and three children. The couple have guns and are shooting at your house and they kill one of your children. They've also raised their kids to hate your family and will want to kill you too when they grow up however one of their kids thinks its wrong what they are doing to you.
All you have to fight back with is a grenade that will kill everyone in the other house. Do you use it? Or do you let them kill you and your family? Even though there is more 'innocent' members in their household (the three children) would you do it or not?
The numbers of innocents should factor in but if you distill it down to small numbers the morals still need to make sense for the argument to be correct.
We also don't have to factor in that your families great, great ancestor killed some of the other families great great ancestors as sins of the father is morally bankrupt.
I'm not saying Eren is right, but it isn't anywhere near as simple as people make it out to be.
Is it justified
Others: no definitely not, never
Me: yes everybit of it
Problem is if they do a small scale rumbling it only lengthens the problem, if Eren only decided to destroy the global fleet across the sea it’s only a matter of time before the worlds powers build their militaries back up within a decade or two and launch another full scale invasion of the island, plus Paradis won’t have the founding titan and a titan of royal blood to protect them anymore by then so their essentially screwed unless they destroy the whole world. (Obviously not trying to justify a full scale rumbling)
W
Not to mention Willy had already united the rest of the world against Eldia. Other nations lost their leaders during Liberio. There was no making amends.
If they went with the og plan, Zeke would be fed to Historia & eren to someone else so the’d still have the titan shifters needed plus the island would also be building up while the global alliance would be repairing.
Its funny because thats exactly what happened hahaha he just could have done the mini rumbling and he would have accomplished the same but with less innocent people dying. Eren looks like the biggest clown in the last chapter. No master plan, just a suicidal maniac
@@PrimeMatix13 no they would die because technology would have already advanced and titans would be obsolete the rumbling was the only way for survival
Marley announced that they want to try to destroy Paradis so tbh if I was someone living there I would support Eren with everything I can to protect my family and friends. Don't matter how much have to die for this. If they try to kill the people I love they deserve to die.
They also wanted to kill all the eldians around the world
"If they try to kill the people I love they deserve to die."
Sure, but does _everyone else_ deserve it too?
So ig it goes the other way right?
If you kill someone else's beloved, then you and the rest of yall deserve to die right?
That's what's so funny about human bias. When it goes your way, we are all quick to judge. When it goes the other way, we as humans try to bargain
when there is no enemy there will be no war - Eren
"they don't have a right to defend themselves" is a wild take
The worst thing AoT ever did was make teenage weebs argue on morality
EDIT: Lo and behold, the replies are teenage weebs arguing on morality
best*
A lot of the opinions are understandable but some are just plain retarded people tryna sound smart
What’s wrong with getting those who may have nothing important to do to have something to think about? You can’t just not want the opposing side to state their argument, that’s immature as hell. Honestly the worst thing is people on a high horse like you who think that avoiding debates about something is good
If you were a teenager when the first season came out you're almost in your mid-twenties now.
What Spike said, most of AoT's fanbase isn't even teenagers anymore. We were teenagers when the first season came out, but that was 10 years ago, we are all well into ours 20s, calm down.
The war is starting , the rumbling is the only method for the people in island to survive the war. It is about survival, thats why I respect Floch and Eren, they understand
He could have deatroyed the global alliance and stopped
Nah eren I understand floch is just a scared coward who finally got some semblance of power. He'd be a tyrant
@@diamondmasterandwillytheca2642 i imagine the children whose fathers died in the global alliance would want revenge
@@flamesubzero4397 in Hiroshima the people do not hate America. They realize that Japan started it. This would be the same
@@diamondmasterandwillytheca2642you are wrong, marley believe eldians started 2000 years ago. So, we are returning the favour.
Then, how would it be any different.
In the imortal words of Dracula THERE ARE NO INOSSENTS
Marley had to come in. They just kept poking the bear with a stick for their own ego
It wasnt about ego, marley was already on the cusp of losing their military advantage because of enemy technological advancements. But zeke and reiner planted the idea in magath's head that they can capture the founding titan power and that if they did then they would be supreme forever
@@spear8403 Marley try to play God and got the answer they wanted.
The true representation of f*** around and fined out
the Hawaii example really sent it home
This is the first anime where I sided with the “bad guy” in the end. They try to point you to the bad guy (eren), for starting the rumbling, but never point out that Marley attacked first and wanted the coordinate from the royal family. Knowing Marley they would’ve used the rumbling as a plan to their advantage if eren didn’t use it first. I also feel this way with Annie where I was annoyed that after all the horrible things she did to the people of paradis (same with Reiner and Bertolt) Mikasa and Armin ally with them to take out Eren. Like they can never justify what tf they did especially Annie
100% justified.
Don’t start nothin, it won’t be nothin
Ok nazi
Exactly. No one had to pick a fight with them.
I dont know, I dont think the children who died started anything, they pretty much had no choice
@@FTSOA you mean like the kids in Eldia just chilling before the wall was broken?
@@luckyspadez Im not saying thats good either, Im just saying kill the killers and leave the innocent.
While I am on Eren’s side, I am sane enough to realize that what he is doing is purely evil and unjustifiable. It’s quite literally mass genocide, there is no logic to defend that. However, I am a firm believer that you must do whatever it takes to ensure the safety of the people you love, and in Eren’s sake, the only way he can truly stop his people from being killed or ostracized for another two thousand years, is to eliminate the enemy entirely, and on a smaller scale, I would not hesitate to do the same if it meant saving my family. The Rumbling is just one massive case of “it’s us or them,” and Eren chose them.
Genuinely..... a Fair take
Eren could've stopped at Marley, and give Paradis a chance to make amends with the other nations who were oppressed by Marley as well. Sure, Marley gets genocided, but no one likes Marley, so no love lost.
I support the rumbling
Bro it's a fucking show chill out
Are we not gonna mention that he only had one shot to do it. I mean his head was literally shot off so it’s not like he could of done a small scale one and threaten them to do it again when people would of know he was dead
King: fuck with us and I kill all of you
Marley: *ignores*
Eren: so you've chosen death...
And now this video says that Eren's actions is not justified LMAO
Ironic how the kings says that after his family literally fucked over everyone by raping, enslaving and killing non Eldians
That's like if post WW2 Germany had a leader after Hitler who threatened to kill the rest of the Jews if they seeked retribution
I love how yall are so one sided that you forget that Eldia started this in the first place
It’s amazing how people think the warning of the rumbling made by the king was real and that Marley knew about it
Only the Tybur family knew of the warning, and they also knew it was fake
The world isn’t just Marley, idiots.
Team Eren FOREVERRRR
Sasageyo sasageyo shin so wo sasageyo ✊
Quality over quantity.
W😂
To kill a monster, you must lose your humanity
-Armin Arlet
"To rise above monsters, you have to abandon your humanity" -Armin Arlert 2013
@@snowysurvivor”Even if Eren became that monster, would it really be a victory for humanity?” - Jean Kirschtein
@@snowysurvivor eren is if light killed all good people and saved the minority the bad people☠️🤣 (he has alot friends in prison)
@@djw_tekken8490 bro what?
Its very simple really. The more you fuck around the more likely you are to find out. Marley fucked around for 4 seasons...
“To answer this question, no. No it can’t.”
It had already been established that the goal of the global alliance was nothing short of the complete extermination of Paradis/Eldians. By this point it was also established that the world's military advances were making the titans obsolete. This was the only thing keeping the Eldians alive, and they were losing even that.
What Eren did is indefensible, but it's understandable.
The only thing he did wrong was going after Hizaru since they actually treated Eldians like people
@ebusive he could’ve done a small scale rumbling
Marley actively tried to destroy all of Paradise and teamed up with the other nations of the world to acomplish that goal; all Eren is doing right now is just returning the favor. They tried to destroy his world so now he's destroying theirs
If every nation in the world grouped up to destroy Hawaii and Hawaii destroyed the whole world in response, then they get what they deserve
Agreed it was the only way to prevent more loss
RESPECT ++++
Yeah all those babies definitely deserve it
As a person who lives in Florida,we have our own rumbling to deal with at the moment
Yeah but Florida is Nazis in this story. Not Jews. Hating on Florida is justified.
Without question
No contest
Armored titan even admitted to eren that LITERALLY THE ONLY FUCKING reason MARLEY attacked THEM FIRST was literally just t f*ck around and find out
They wanted the smoke
THEY ASKED FOR IT
Eren didn’t have a choice tbh. Paradis was going to get attacked anyways, no matter what they did, as the world only saw them as monsters. Erens hand was forced because the world was so full of hatred towards paradis that even being peaceful would have done nothing, as Marley’s only comeback is “your island devils and you should pay for your sins that never really happened and happened thousands of years ago but somehow that means you all have to die”. It’s like the same reasoning as we should kill every modern German just because their ancestors gassed the Jews, like it makes no logical sense.
I SWEAR they need to make an episode with logic and not stupid little a**holes running around
They did really happen though we saw them in Ymir’s memories. And the eldian empire lasted for 2000 years it didn’t happen 2000 years ago. The empire has only been not in power for like 90 years. Most people still alive probably had parents who directly suffered under their rule. Obviously that still doesn’t justify their actions towards eldians but trying to act like their suffering should just be forgotten and moved on from when it’s been less time for them then the civil war in America is ridiculous.
@@kamronspencer4910I think the eldian empire collapsed over a hundred years as king died then it was passed to reis family? For about 2-3 generations? Right Reis’s dad, the brother, and Frita for like a year or two
@@Huppy1234567 the ties family is the fritz family their was no changing of who was inheriting it. And it’s been like 100 years maybe 110 or so at this point in the story but 100 at the beginning
That's a naive way of lookin since isayma didn't introduce any other nations except Marley amd fully explain it, again small rumbling or directed towards Marley even thou in both situation innocent neutral people are getting k, full scale has no justification if you comsifsr eren as a morally good character then that's an issue, he's a fantastic character but evil, he's saving himself by killing more people, since we don't know any other opinions outside Marley it will never be justified
Like Jean said, the world picked a fight and lost. The rest of the world knew the elf Ian’s had the power of the rumbling, yet they kept sending pure titans. It was either the eldians or the world that hated them
The hell is an elf Ian's???
@@OGComputerTitus Autocorrect. Bro prolly meant "eldians"
Auto correct + your inability to do basic critical thinking.
Basically the trolly problem
If the world declared war on Hawaii, but Hawaii had all the nuclear weapons.
My people > your people. That's all there is to it.
Okay edgelord
@Krystian Gomułka It's absolutely fucked up what Eren is doing but I can understand him.
If my mom or any of my siblings were in danger of being killed, it's hard to not commit such atrocities for the people you love.
Killed or be killed.
@Krystian Gomułka exactly, ramzi deserved what he got for stealing from Levi
@@perritoshido5845its common sense
@@perritoshido5845 So you would let your people die to save the lives of people who hate you.
See, the problem is that if it is only small scale, it will only cause the cycle of hatred to progress. They were literally going to be attacked not too long after the start of season 4. It has to be all or nothing or else people will just try to blow up Eldia once they feel they have the power to do so, and then Eldia will strike back, so on and so forth. That and Eren is a victim of his own future
Even if they destroyed the outside world, all they done was make the cycle of hatred smaller. Soon people who wanted to see the outside world would be bullied/killed just like from before the loss of wall Maria
Its not always the case tho.. America bombed Japan. Japan’s defenses broke and never fought back
@@syedakib3534probably because Japan was annihilated and then rebuilt by the USA, Eldia would be annihilated and looted, not rebuilt
@@lorenzovalencia6816 Here Marley is the one who needs to be rebuilt not Eldia. Eldia is carrying out the genocide in Marley, aka America bombing Japan
Hold on, eren says he killed roughly 80 pwrcent of the population, but also that the population of the world and paradis were about the same, so maybe their world is just smaller then ours? Still, in terms of numbers, they arent even. But, all the globe wanted paradis gone, and they tried to wipe paradis out, so it makes sense the paradis would want to wipe out the world. Plus in terms of the horror the people on paradis endured, theu would be a lot more vengeful then the eldians, and rightfully so, the titans are monstrous. I dont think it is that horrible Eren wanted to wipe out eldie, because from his perspective, they are monsters who turn regular people into titans that have killed his people for centuries, and he has been put through hell because of them for a very long time.
If there’s no people to justify it to, there’s no need to wonder if it’s justified
Can’t be justified but it didn’t help that the entire world formed an alliance versus just the island
hypocritical video tbh
No one needs to justify fighting back against their bullies.
Actually it can be by either protecting the lives on the island and giving them the chance to advance and fight back while if he didn’t marley would’ve killed them and likely inslaved them plus titans would likely be useless during this time and marley would cause the death of more than amount wren did
they didnt form and alliance, they literally declared war!
Yeah seriously how the hell is an island bigger than Madagascar supposed to take on everyone in the known World. Since we don’t know what’s in the West aside some small land that Marley had.
NAH EREN DID NOTHING WRONG, GET RUMBLED STAY HUMBLED💯💯💯🗣️🗣️‼️‼️
Real ‼️💯🔥
Yeah
FR🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️💯💯💯🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Yes....
Yes it is...
Even if they pulled off a small scale rumbling I’m pretty sure there was talks about how they’d become a common enemy of whoever was aligned with Marley. It was a edged sword so I’m not surprised Erin decided to send it
To be fair the entire world essentially declared war on the island, wanted to exterminate them, and subjected them to constant titan attacks. Also no one probably declared a formal surrender.
They actually doubled down. They suffered a humiliating defeat the moment they declared war, and they decided to double down a month later
The entire world’s governments declaring to be your enemy does not justify murdering every man woman and child on the planet. Billions of civilians dying because their governments were stupid is not justified in any way.
Eren could have destroyed every military fleet he could, bring every eldian of the world to paradise, make all eldians able to live off very little food and become much more intelligent, and then bargained with the rest of the world to become a safe, peaceful superpower. Instead he decided to murder every child, eldian or not, living outside his home. This was not the way to go tbh
@genessab do you known how propaganda works? Also, there was a reason Willy Tybur told the "truth" about the walls. Go and listen to what he didn't say, but we know
@@soloknight7197 ah yes, the 5 year old boy on the other side of the planet deserves to be crushed to death because one guy and one government tried to rally a genocide against eldians. Can you hear yourself?
In the real world, there is a country that most people hate, North Korea. Imagine if NATO decided that they wanted to destroy North Korea, would Kim Jong Un be justified in nuking the entire planet?
People also forgot that they were gonna raid eldia anyway cuz of the resources they have. Zeke was alittle surprised when he first seen odm gear and saw how it worked. Which in turn scared them as well cuz they seen how smart they are
Bro. If it comes down to an "us vs them" every member of the "us" will pick "us".
Global alliance. Global. The entire globe agreed to kill them so he decided the kill the globe first. Justified. Keep the Titans marching.
Bro, the newborns din't agree with the global allience.
global alliance only applies to politicians you absolute retard
@@gorgopareita7597 But when the newborns grow up being told stories of the evil murderous eldians, they join the war against them. There’s no option for the people of paradis but the rumbling.
@@gorgopareita7597 The newborns in eldia didn't ask to be killed. Infact, nobody in eldia had any idea what was going on and they still attacked them lmao
@@ghostlyshame6065 fr
Some parts maybe? Because marley started the war but eren finished the war by either (A.) killing the last marleyans or (B.) have his friends cut off his head to establish peace guess which route they went?
The author basically created this situation were peace is not possible at all and the only way for the island to not be wiped out was to kill every single person out of it, with no middle ground
And somehow the people of the island are in the wrong for not wanting to get killed
"Self defense is bad" apparently, lol
If you were outside the walls you’d be cursing Eren’s name right up until you were crushed. The only reason anyone sees Eren in any sort of positive light is because he was the narratives main focus. His motives are understandable but by no means justifiable, the rumbling goes well beyond self defense and into the realm of mindless slaughtering.
@@xenozeno061 yeah and if I was inside the walls I would be cursing Marley's name for killing me for no reason other than mindless distruction
That's exactly my criticism of the author of this series
"Look, just lay down and get kicked"
The problem is that people are so simple-minded they don't thing about every tiny detail and nuance in the history, the author chose a specific period of technological advancement in history as one of the points why things unfolded with not choice and no way around about anything and that is there for a good reason. For instance, aircraft developments and bombs are discussed in a scene between Zeke and top officials of military and season 4 opening showcases atomic bombs exploding, which is not obvious but I don't think there is any other type of yet known explosion that works like that with an air-shockwave able to do that. So it seems clear to me that people go on about discussing a lot of stuff without ever realizing many of the nuances that should be considered when discussing the topic.
@@xenozeno061 I sure agree with you that if we actually *were* outside Paradis we would think that but when saying that you are actually proving the point that the guy made there, because you putting youself on one side shoe's and the other guy is putting himself on the other side shoe's. You see? I'm not completely disagreeing with your other point tho, but it would be good if you read my previous comment as well. Btw, the point of we watching as a third-party is that we can discuss the thing not being at anyone's side so your point is as pointless as saying that you stand with Eren decision but is worthwhile just as much to discuss what was the "right thing" to do. But let's amp up the discussing to arguments using the plot problems and not appellative things such "you say that because you are not x".
People are still busy discussing the morality of the Rumbling when I still haven't seen these UA-cam Saints of Morality present a FEASIBLE alternative to Eren's plan where:
A. Peace is achieved before Eren's time is up (less than 4 years?)
B. Peace is achieved before Zeke's time is up (less than one year)
C. Historia and others don't need to eat a titan shifter anymore
D. Paradis' safety is GUARANTEED without other nations' retaliation
E. End the "cYcLe oF hAtReD"
Just get rid of the titans lmao
Eren literally did just that at the end of the manga but couldn't at any other moment for plot convenience
@@wackywildwill3114 you read manga but still can't summarize the story. They litterally show you how marley treat innocent eldians without titan power just because their ancestor history. Even when the eldians use titan power for marley sake (reiner, annie, berthold, even zeke who sacrifies his parents) they still hate them and only use them for war tool. Don't forget grisha's sister ended up being dogs food purely because of their hatred to eldians.
So the argument is that, since there is no way to guarantee a perfect solution in which world peace is achieved is less than a decade, global genocide is a valid answer?
TLDR: There was no alternative, genociding was the only option. Talk no jutsu doesn't work, and it doesn't work in history you naive children (Not talking to OP)
That's because there ISNT a feasible alternative, there isn't even an alternative, it's as simple as I get genocided or they get genocided. Even if we run with the idea that Eren could just snap titans out of existence, the fuck is he going to do now? Do people naively believe that every world power is just going to be like OH HE SAID TITANS ARE GONE SO THEY MUST BE GONE. Of course they aren't going to buy they shit, they'll continue to paint them as Demons and then proceed to genocide them and they would be completely useless because the only ones with powers remaining would be Ackermans. This doesn't even take into account the cycle of hatred that isn't just going to fucking vanish when titans stop existing, people are still going to remember the hatred their grand parents felt and they are going to act on it. People seem to think that this history is exclusive to AoT when it really isn't, it's been pretty prevalent in HUMAN history, I mean you look at the most recent case and it was the Jews and the Holocaust. Would it have been fair to say JEWS, STOP HATING GERMANS THEY APOLOGIZED! No, that's fucking insanity, a jew that survived the holocaust is not going to forgive a german that easily, and this is true for all of human atrocities, so I do not understand why people think that all problems between Eldians and the rest of the world would be solved.
IMO, Genociding the rest of the world is the safest and the most logical step to take, they've been killing Eldians off like cattle and treating them as slaves, so it is only to be expected that the Eldians just kill everyone else who STARTED THE FIGHTING, sure their ancestors 2000 years ago did some fucked shit, but that was 2000 years ago and they've been oppressed since then.
The 50 year plan was an alternative.
If Historia willingly accepts to take on the responsibility of eating Beast Titan to carry on the plan, then their is nothing wrong with it.
Historia is a consenting adult. She can do what she thinks is right. It's not Eren's place to decide for her.
A consenting adult choosing to sacrifice themselves willingly will always be a better plan than Mass Genocide and killing millions of innocent children.
I would totally cause the rumbling
Eren can't change his future 😊
does the fact that a mini rumbling would only delay eldias demise whereas a full rumbling would ensure no one ever harms eldia again
If I had gone through what Eren went through I would do the exact same thing. Seek vengeance and attempt to create a world where my loved ones could live the rest of their days peacefully. His world could never return to how it once was before the walls were destroyed and became a victim of society as did many others. I suppose it becomes a question of where each individual’s morals stand in. If Armin had received the founder I’m sure there could’ve been an alternative approach but Armin is more empathetic and compassionate even with the enemy where as Eren only displays those values to the people he loves. However going through everything Eren has endured it’s difficult to empathize with a world that treated him and his loved ones as something disposable rather than as an equal. I’m only paraphrasing I forget the name of the character from the anime but he said it best when everyone was retreating that the rumbling is a product created by them for treating the islanders as devils and it’s come for them now. Moral of the story is empathize with those around you regardless of social status, race, background etc. in death we are all equals but let’s show some compassion to fellow men and women while we’re still kicking. Very good anime never would’ve imagined an ending like this.
It’s like saying Hitler was the good guy. He tried wiping out the Jews for some good unknown reasons
Just like the marliens didn't give a f*** about innocents in the walls,
Eldians should only care for themselves. ✊🏻
Yes, it is 100% justified. Every country, every person has the code, then or us. Nothing else matter.
Marley wanted the smoke, so when eren provided the smoke they couldnt handle it.
It much more
Marley wants a smoke
Eren gave them smoke and fire
There’s no war crimes cause I doubt the Geneva Convention even exists. But if you really want to blame someone it should be Marley for poking the bear. Their Lust for domination it’s what led to their interactions with Eren. Then there’s Willy Tybur who basically set up eren.
Comment I saw on instagram,
Eren: Hey Marley, remember all the titans you dumped on us over the years? I’m here to return them WITH INTEREST
The show isn't about justice. Its about how justice is mostly just an illusion.
On a grand scale no, but on a pesonal view it makes sense