I think the environment in which the film takes place played a big part in Joe's isolation. It takes him a long time to understand the level of manipulation he's been subjected to. It's only upon reflecting on his children leaving home that he come to terms with how much he's missed out on his childhood and young adulthood. Despite Gracie's imprisonment for that crime, she's been convincing him all along that what they were doing at the time was 'okay'. And the places and people they surround themselves with keep that illusion intact. Which is why I found it so interesting that one of the very first scenes in the movie is a gathering at the house, with all of Gracie's friends. The house is filled with people complicit to the situation, the first thing they tell Elizabeth is to be kind and understanding. And when the guests leave, Joe spends the better part of his free time at home alone with no one to tell him the truth. Confrontation never comes head-on, the only displays of disagreement from the outside world come in passive ways - the 'special packages' that are sent to the house, one of Gracie's long time customers refusing to order from her any longer. Gracie has managed to completely isolate Joe from reality and social norms (they literally live on an island community in georgia, how much more secluded can you get?) Love the episode as always, girls!
This should've been from Joe's perspective. They could've limited the actress subplot. Once again, Hollywood limiting stories of male victims and female abusers, because its the CURRENT YEAR.
Heck yeah, this episode was one of my favorites. I gotta admit I didn't watch the film. When I first read the IMDB on it a while back, I thought that maybe it would do Fili Valaau a little justice. Hearing that they just continued to exploit him solidifies my reason to not support this one. I'm sure it is well-made though. Interesting how this story compares with Priscilla. Where hers was wrong but able to be explained away, this story doesn't have that protection. I only heard of MKL here and there during the time it happened, so I need to dig deeper into the facts, but I've always felt bad for Fili Valaau. Men face pedophilia and sexual assault, from men and women, and the majority of men who are assaulted in life are assaulted while young. I feel it's not talked about enough, and unfortunately women who are predators have a lot more latitude to prey on young men and boys, mostly for the reasonings MKL tried to give ("he pursued me, etc.") I think media is in a great position to bring past wrongs to light and finally get justice, like we saw with R. Kelly. Disappointing that this film instead chose to shirk that responsibility and power, and instead chose to try and profit off of one man's trauma. Btw I think it's time we talk about Inception already. I keep having dreams about you all doing an episode of that. 😂
You can't compare Elvis Pressly and Priscilla because back in the 1950s and 1960s people getting together at 14 or 24 at the time wasn't seen as pedophilia or abuse. Elvis and Jerry Lee Lewis lived in the American South where child or teenage marriages where legal and soically acceptable. In 1937 in Tennessee you had a 9 year old girl named Eunice Winsted married her husband Charlie Johns who was 24 years old. And people across the world got married young at that time and earlier in World history. Childhood is a recent development in World history.
@@TheAaronChand that's part of why I said it can be explained away in their case. But, the other example you gave is far too extreme. While young marriages or vast age differences haven't always been legal or considered "abuse" as they are now, they've almost always faced stigma to some degree in the Western world. And, I'm sure you'll agree, rightfully so.
@chrisforchrist355 the Marriage between 9 year old Eunice Winsted and Charlie Johns in the year 1937 in Tennessee USA was like you said even extreme for the time period. There story was published in Life Magazine in February of the same year which is why that case got National attention Charlie at the time created false information in order to obtain the Marriage license. At the time Tennessee had no minimum age for marriage. Euencie mom supported the Marriage since she herself was married at age 16 and her Sister Eunice Aunt married at age 13 years old. At 1st Eunice mom and Charlie mom was against the Marriage at 1st but changed her mind afterwards. The couple lasted until Charlie died of old age in February of 1997 in his 80s and Eunice died of Old age in 2006. Much like Vili Fualaau Eunice was in Primary school grade school. 3rd grade student and had to drop out of school. Vili himself was a 6th grade student and he himself left school in 10th grade 1999.
@chrisforchrist355 Eunice mom who supported the Marriage between her daughter and Charlie said this if they love one another than getting married is the right thing to do. And said this about her son in law. That Charlie is a good boy he's a hard worker and brought himself 40 acres a few days ago Euencie dad said this that the Marriage happened and there's nothing you can do about it now. These kinds of explanations woudnt be accepted in the late 20th century the 90s and 21st century. And the American Government would pass laws and an investigation would happen and a criminal Court case and jail time would happen to Charlie like it did Mary Kay Letourneau. So even though this case was extreme no criminal charges where found unlike Mary Kay Letourneau and Vili Fualaau in 1996 in 1937 it couldn't lead to criminal charges
@chrisforchrist355 also Childhood is a relatively recent thing in Word human history. People became adults earlier and took on adult responsibilities earlier. Famous examples include Ben Franklin who had to drop out of school at age 10 years old and work alongside his dad Josiah Franklin who was a Candle maker. And later from ages 12 to 17 years old was working alongside his brother James as an apprentice learning printing. Nader Shah the famous Iranian Persian conqueror and king. At age 13 years old had to support himself and his mom after his dad died by collecting firewood and selling it at the local market. At age 15 years old Nader Shah started his military career working as a Musketeer for the governor. Joseph Plump Martin Lemuel Cook Daniel Waldo John F Bakeman where American Revolutionaries and Soliders who joined the Continental Army during the American Revolution fighting against the Brtish Empire on the Patriot side. And they were ages 15 to 16 when they joined up. Emperor Meji became Emperor of Japan in the 19th century at age 16 years old. Nowadays kids who are 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 are expected to be in School l and have a carefree youth and childhood
Charles Melton's performance as Joe was done so well. One of my favorites of the year.
Should have gotten an Oscar nomination.
I think the environment in which the film takes place played a big part in Joe's isolation. It takes him a long time to understand the level of manipulation he's been subjected to. It's only upon reflecting on his children leaving home that he come to terms with how much he's missed out on his childhood and young adulthood. Despite Gracie's imprisonment for that crime, she's been convincing him all along that what they were doing at the time was 'okay'.
And the places and people they surround themselves with keep that illusion intact.
Which is why I found it so interesting that one of the very first scenes in the movie is a gathering at the house, with all of Gracie's friends. The house is filled with people complicit to the situation, the first thing they tell Elizabeth is to be kind and understanding. And when the guests leave, Joe spends the better part of his free time at home alone with no one to tell him the truth.
Confrontation never comes head-on, the only displays of disagreement from the outside world come in passive ways - the 'special packages' that are sent to the house, one of Gracie's long time customers refusing to order from her any longer. Gracie has managed to completely isolate Joe from reality and social norms (they literally live on an island community in georgia, how much more secluded can you get?)
Love the episode as always, girls!
Natalie Portman's monologue left me completely speechless
This should've been from Joe's perspective. They could've limited the actress subplot. Once again, Hollywood limiting stories of male victims and female abusers, because its the CURRENT YEAR.
Todd Haynes is a genius. I felt MD was his best film yet… and he made velvet goldmine which I find to be Perfect
Please consider giving 'Love Lies Bleeding' or 'Asphalt City' a watch.
Favorite episode yet! Watched the movie several months ago and can’t stop thinking about it
Heck yeah, this episode was one of my favorites.
I gotta admit I didn't watch the film. When I first read the IMDB on it a while back, I thought that maybe it would do Fili Valaau a little justice. Hearing that they just continued to exploit him solidifies my reason to not support this one. I'm sure it is well-made though.
Interesting how this story compares with Priscilla. Where hers was wrong but able to be explained away, this story doesn't have that protection. I only heard of MKL here and there during the time it happened, so I need to dig deeper into the facts, but I've always felt bad for Fili Valaau. Men face pedophilia and sexual assault, from men and women, and the majority of men who are assaulted in life are assaulted while young. I feel it's not talked about enough, and unfortunately women who are predators have a lot more latitude to prey on young men and boys, mostly for the reasonings MKL tried to give ("he pursued me, etc.") I think media is in a great position to bring past wrongs to light and finally get justice, like we saw with R. Kelly. Disappointing that this film instead chose to shirk that responsibility and power, and instead chose to try and profit off of one man's trauma.
Btw I think it's time we talk about Inception already. I keep having dreams about you all doing an episode of that. 😂
You can't compare Elvis Pressly and Priscilla because back in the 1950s and 1960s people getting together at 14 or 24 at the time wasn't seen as pedophilia or abuse. Elvis and Jerry Lee Lewis lived in the American South where child or teenage marriages where legal and soically acceptable. In 1937 in Tennessee you had a 9 year old girl named Eunice Winsted married her husband Charlie Johns who was 24 years old. And people across the world got married young at that time and earlier in World history. Childhood is a recent development in World history.
@@TheAaronChand that's part of why I said it can be explained away in their case. But, the other example you gave is far too extreme. While young marriages or vast age differences haven't always been legal or considered "abuse" as they are now, they've almost always faced stigma to some degree in the Western world. And, I'm sure you'll agree, rightfully so.
@chrisforchrist355 the Marriage between 9 year old Eunice Winsted and Charlie Johns in the year 1937 in Tennessee USA was like you said even extreme for the time period. There story was published in Life Magazine in February of the same year which is why that case got National attention Charlie at the time created false information in order to obtain the Marriage license. At the time Tennessee had no minimum age for marriage. Euencie mom supported the Marriage since she herself was married at age 16 and her Sister Eunice Aunt married at age 13 years old. At 1st Eunice mom and Charlie mom was against the Marriage at 1st but changed her mind afterwards. The couple lasted until Charlie died of old age in February of 1997 in his 80s and Eunice died of Old age in 2006. Much like Vili Fualaau Eunice was in Primary school grade school. 3rd grade student and had to drop out of school. Vili himself was a 6th grade student and he himself left school in 10th grade 1999.
@chrisforchrist355 Eunice mom who supported the Marriage between her daughter and Charlie said this if they love one another than getting married is the right thing to do. And said this about her son in law. That Charlie is a good boy he's a hard worker and brought himself 40 acres a few days ago Euencie dad said this that the Marriage happened and there's nothing you can do about it now. These kinds of explanations woudnt be accepted in the late 20th century the 90s and 21st century. And the American Government would pass laws and an investigation would happen and a criminal Court case and jail time would happen to Charlie like it did Mary Kay Letourneau. So even though this case was extreme no criminal charges where found unlike Mary Kay Letourneau and Vili Fualaau in 1996 in 1937 it couldn't lead to criminal charges
@chrisforchrist355 also Childhood is a relatively recent thing in Word human history. People became adults earlier and took on adult responsibilities earlier. Famous examples include Ben Franklin who had to drop out of school at age 10 years old and work alongside his dad Josiah Franklin who was a Candle maker. And later from ages 12 to 17 years old was working alongside his brother James as an apprentice learning printing. Nader Shah the famous Iranian Persian conqueror and king. At age 13 years old had to support himself and his mom after his dad died by collecting firewood and selling it at the local market. At age 15 years old Nader Shah started his military career working as a Musketeer for the governor. Joseph Plump Martin Lemuel Cook Daniel Waldo John F Bakeman where American Revolutionaries and Soliders who joined the Continental Army during the American Revolution fighting against the Brtish Empire on the Patriot side. And they were ages 15 to 16 when they joined up. Emperor Meji became Emperor of Japan in the 19th century at age 16 years old. Nowadays kids who are 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 are expected to be in School l and have a carefree youth and childhood
❤Big big fan ❤Maisie William (Arya Stark) ❤
Ha! Do an episode on Inception lol x
I watched it ❤❤❤❤
agreed 🙏🙏🙏