HOW-TO: Betaflight Slider Tuning - In 2 Packs! 😎🤘
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- Опубліковано 15 лип 2024
- How to slider tune a quad in two-packs with the Betaflight sliders!
0:00 - Intro
0:11 - PD Balance Tuning (Controller Stepped Response)
9:07 - PD Gain Tuning (Max D Gain = Peak Performance)
13:00 - Stick Response Tuning (Track your Rates)
19:36 - Wrap-up
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"Any questions class?"
Me, crying internally: "No 🙃"
Almost a year later, I keep coming back to this one. This video was a turning point for me - I "slider tune" every quad I care about now, coming back here time and again to get the steps right. Thanks for this!
Loolllll.same....
thank you for this vid, i think i am getting better in reading logs every time you release a new vid! greetings from 🇩🇪!
The simplicity of this tuning process is brilliant. Finally a tuning process that will get me most of the way there without being over complicated and drawn out!
Your flying literally looks like a simulator, your movements are so sharp.
Thanks so much for videos like this! Super helpful!
Seriously thank you so much. This made tuning my rough flying cinewhoop soooooo much smoother and got it dialed in for my needs. Huge thanks!
Thank for video, i will try and see the difference on my quad.
I really appreciate this video as it's a bit less in depth than some (where I get lost!), yet includes enough valuable info with some basic black box reading. By taking a laptop to the flying field, I believe even I can follow this strategy!
Thanks Mark. I was able to follow everything you said in this video without re watching it 6 more times! Your tutelage is paying off :)
There's a guy at work that we ask for guidance. We call it, "drinking from the firehose". Watching your videos is a lot like listening to him. Someone who sees the big picture and not just "it has always worked for me". Really good stuff. This is one I will probably pull up out of my history and watch a few times more.
Your the best Mark! I've come a long way because of you. Now I'm a black box logging pilot. Could have never done it without you. Much appreciated. I hope you and your family stay healthy and safe
Awesome man, thanks!!
Wow... I did some kwads in the past using your tips, but this must be the single most easy to tune guide available in the world!!
I just did two tunes for the same craft, 2 packs for 6s and 2x 4s... Final result is amazing.
By the way the tip for the pwm frequency was crucial, I was using 48khz in jesc and flying in 4s was giving huge oscillations that previous tunes were not taking out easily.
Thanks for the vid. Also, I LOVE your backyard!
This has got to be the best 4.x tuning video I've seen to date. Much appreciated! (I was able to pick up a lot of understanding of how the parts work by the way you approached it.) Well done! And same as KababFPV (hehheh) I couldn't wait to comment until the end. :)
just did a tune on my whoop this way . it is locked in nice now . thanks for the great video
Great explanation, thank you! That way PID tuning with sliders looks like it has never been that easy.
Very interesting and informative video. You made it easy to follow along . I couldn't see the bounce back during the flight. The black box helped. Really awesome hearing the trilling props and seeing that in the logs. Thanks for sharing. 👍🤓
The very best tuning method for dummies like me! Got my 4S much better with this method :) love it! Tomorrow I´ll try to tune my 6S rig ... THANK YOU!!!
Amazing video. Only setting the filters to what you have makes an enormous difference.
As I was watching I knew you’d see that bounce back in the log. It’s great that you showed this. Proof that we can’t always trust our real time perception.
Yeah, with P/D ratio so high, I was like WTF. There has to be bounce in the log.
@@uavtech I understand what you are saying, but if you don't notice it, does it matter? I guess I'm wondering how much difference there is between a quad that is tuned 'pretty close' on the sticks vs black box.
@@travisSimon365 a bunch of little things you don't really notice adds up.
Love the little Boss at the end, Great video.
I wish I was able to give 2 thumbs up, this video has helped me so much in understanding a less technical way of tuning that I can understand . Thx UAV Tech !
My quad is flying like a dream now. Almost CAN'T produce propwash its so smooth. Thanks for the vid!
and with this vid, I am your number 100 patreon!!! Great approach
Thanks again for the support!!
As a professional ARM firmware developer (not betaflight sadly) this type of content is exactly what I was looking for! Less "feelings" and more numbers, graphs and hard cold math :) Thanks!
Love it!! We think alike.
thank you for the video really appreciate that you give the needed information in a nice manner and its possible to learn some things
Great stuff!.. I am going to do this with all my quads!
your vids are always very helpfull for me! Thanks for a great work 👍
It's father's day... surely you're allowed more than just the two packs!
Yeah, maybe 3? ;-P
Thank you just tuned a 7 inch hyperlow ranger in it flies like my 5inch quads. Tons of power nd response. Pyrodrone f4 stack brother hobby 2806.5 1700kv motors on 6s.
What are you settings for filter and slicer ? I trying to tune my 7" too...
Man what an excellent video. Thank you!
Nice Video of tuning. For me it’s easier to tune a 6s quad with the sliders than a 4s quad. I often struggling with the right amount of master slider on 4s. But I will give my 4s rig a try with this tuning video. Keep up the good tutorials, I ALWAYS learn something new from you 😊👍🏻
good video. gets me in the right direction
Love your work and vids. Keep it up
Thanks!! So simple and so clear the way you put it! :)
Beautiful yard and house! 😍
good details on the sliders, thanks! got one of my micro tuned to my liking in 1 pack, ha.
10-minute abs --> 5-minute abs --> 2-minute abs!
I need to do another one for 1-Pack now!! Or half a pack to one-up! :-)
UAV Tech LOL
Love yours videos, thanks
Fantastic tutorial Mark!
Patreon👍
Best video on PID Tuning Till date
Happy Father's day Mark and you all incredible community members.
I'm going to have to try this after work today. For the first time, after 7 builds I have a quad that starts out with horrible bounce back and bad prop wash. Usually the stock settings are pretty good. This 5 inch is almost unflyable
Thanks brother! Oh man! Thankyou very much!
lots to learn
Thanks!
Having spent a long time manually tuning both a 3" (DalRC DJI F5) and 5" (Armattan Marmotte), both with DJI and running 6S, without using the sliders, your video prompted me to go back and see what slider settings would get me closest to that tune. I'd tuned P, then D, then enabled Dmin and retuned D, and then FF and I for each axis. On the 3" I found that just PD gain just needed tweaking to 1.1 and I ended up with pretty much exactly the numbers I'd found the hard way (except for FF which needed to be 150/175 on R/P). On the 5", tuned the same way I found that PD balance of 0.8, PD gain of 1.3 and Stick Response of 1.9 (except for yaw which tracked perfectly with FF corresponding to Stick Response of 1.0) again matched those values resulting from lengthy tuning. In both cases the ratio of Roll/Pitch gains seemed spot on. The only thing here which seemed to be consistently out was FF. Again this video shows that black box is priceless.
One thought here though... I find that I can raise P a long way if D is relatively low, but then the quad becomes very sensitive to bursts of P oscillation during prop wash. Raising P until you get trilling with the PD balance at about 1, and then backing off by the equivalent of 0.1 to 0.2 on the PD gain slider, and then adjusting the balance to get the damping right (no under/overshoot) works better in my experience. Done in this order, PD gain before PD balance, the fact that PD balance adjusts D, not P, works in your favour.
Hey, i am also running a marmotte with DJI on 6s. would you mind sharing your bf settings with me? I think my quad moves decent but there is room to improve.
Which motors are you running and how much does your quad weight?
I fly with a Session 5, recently cutting weight, think I will be around ~720g as soon as I replaced my stack and motors.
@@findler I've emailed you.
17:00 going on a tangent, I love it!
Thanks for this helpful Tutorial.....still waiting for these awesome Fortnite-Videos :D
No billion likes yet, so he is stuck. :-P
nice i will try . just got my dji goggles i wish i got it with remote.
"move those P/D gaine UP" vidéo montage is insane! XD idk how i saw it...
dude, whatever you do, your quad flies much better than mine, hahaha
i changed motors on mine and now it flies much smoother in slow flight but propwash is so harsh i almost loose control on occasions. gonna tinker with it until i figure something out.
5:45 was trippyyyy
I was tempted to switch to betaflight from falcox, after listening to you say a lot of letters and numbers I decided to stick with falcox
Letter and numbers are hard.
I’ll be following this video to tune my quad.
Could you do. A cinematic tune please
I'm late to the party, but a bug / useful feature of 4.2(at least with my RADIX2 BrainFPV builds of betaflight), if you set feedforward to zero, hit save, and refresh. the sliders will re-enable with feed forward / sitck response gain = 0, completely removing it from the mix. :)
Really good straight forward Tuning video. I've been flying since BF2.x and theses sliders make things so much easier to tune. I know a lot of people who've not long got into the hobby and they don't realise how easy everything is now compared to earlier versions.
I currently have 56khz RPM Filters enabled on my quads and one of which I've never flown before hand so I don't really know if I'm missing anything, but on a 5inch I've had for over 3 years I feel like it's really underpowered now compared. I noticed you used 28Khz instead so would you recommend that over 56khz for most or all Quads? Also at 56khz I'm running 4k PID and DShot300. Would you recommend the same on 28Khz ESC's?
I tried this method on my first custom 3inch build. It flies significantly better and the tutorial was easy and straight forward to follow.
I flashed the ESCs with the 48khz firmware, do you recommend moving back to 24khz for a 3 in just under 250 grams
Thanks! It earned my subscription!
for a 3", i reckon 48khz gives you the longest battery life.
I need to go through more of (all of) your videos to really learn to tune. I have one 5" quad that does the 'trilling oscillation' when I strap a 120c pack on it and hit high throttle marks. I could probably make it go away applying a little of what I learned here, but honestly I don't really understand what TPA breakpoint does (I'm guessing it reduces your pids when you reach a certain point) and I want to tune them right all around. Could you point me to your most complete and easy to understand pid tuning video? Or do I just need to watch them all hehheh. Thanks so much. You're a treasure to this hobby.
Tiny.cc/pidtuning
@@uavtech this is such a great resource. Thank you. I'll read it a couple more times then bring it with me to tune tomorrow. Big thumbs up!
Top tier video as always. However, why would you not set a dynamic idle value? Is this not needed to prevent desync when using bidirectional dshot/RPM Filtering?
Any explanation of what and why you chose the settings would be great.
That is the video subject itself. 🤔
Great video very useful,Thanks. When adjusting filters is it ok to let the motors get just slightly warm so I can get better propwash handling ? Thx ,peace
Yup, warm is ok.
I'm running 1750kv 2306 motors on a 5inch 6s rig and had to turn my pwm on my esc's to 48 khz because I kept getting hot motors. A while ago in the blheli vid that joshua bardwell did he said he turns all his quads to 48khz as well. Also have heard if you have hot motors you can bump it up but dont have to go all the way to 48, just go up enough to not get hot motors. Just something to think about for those who get hot motors straight out of the gate and no amount of filtering or changing of PIDS changes that.
Yup. Also when you are exercising the motors a lot for tuning, they get warm/hot.
I like your approach of minimizing the degrees of freedom early in the tune. Temporarily killing FF makes a lot of sense to me. I think a lot of folks don’t get P gains right because of the confound with FF. wrt the 3rd RPM harmonic, it should have virtually no latency cost right? Why not just leave it on? I also think most could run Q1000 there.
Agreed
Idk, minimal latency, but minimal use too (3rd harmonic).
Great video! BTW if you put the FF to 0 on RPY the sliders will not go away as before, not sure if is now a bug, I like to think is a feature!
I do appreciate your knowledge , seems like what we need is an auto tune feature ! fly a couple packs and the quad will tune it self to your style ...? possible ? I know the Vbar has a feature like that for RC heli
Many have tried. Many have failed. More than meets the eyes.
One day.
DroneMesh is working on AI tuning
DRonin auto tune fail.
That AI tuning thing one from last year fell off the map too.
Maybe one day.
Ardupilot has a decent autotune
This is so cool, but so advance for a beginner.. I wish you can tune my quad in just 2 packs!
It is hard to put in all forms. Look at the comment right before yours. Also a beginner and it translated just fine.
Also try tiny.cc/pidtuning and see if that helps
After around a year in the hobby I'm now just starting at looking at tuning.
A tuning guide for complete beginners would be great.
Quite a lot of terms that make little sense in this one.
See tiny.cc/pidtuning for clarity.
@@uavtech excellent thank you
Very helpful and makes sense, thank you
You turn Dmin off at the start “as it’s a tuning flight”, should it be turned back on once tuned?
Thanks again
You should get in touch with Volvo, the lane assist PID tune is terrible on mine
Up to you. Just make sure to remember you D_min gains should matched your tuned gains. D_max is only seen on sharp stick moves.
Great video! what filter settings would you recommend as a base line for 7 inch?
Same except sliders at 1.0
For the rpm filtering you set PID loop frequency to 4khz and use dshot300.
Do you recommend the same settings on f7 boards, or should we then use 8khz and dshot 600?
Thanks for all your help, my quads fly great thanks to you 👌
Hi Mark, really love your videos, great work! Was just wondering, do all of the initial CLI commands you suggest entering in betaflight 4.0.3, at the initial stages of your PID tuning principles playlist, still apply when tuning in 4.2? Cheers.
Yes, but the FF = 0 diables the sliders, so this trick with FF slider and FF Transition helps to keep them active.
@@uavtech ok great, thanks. I'll use that then and leave the FF changes out of the CLI commands. Cheers.
Great video very useful info, do you have any suggestions for a 5 inch 6s 2208.5 2222kv, do I need pids reduced by 1/3 since motor output is set to 82%, and for BLH32 should I use high demag, 48khz, 24khz and have you ever tried 36khz khz?
Don't do general things like that. Just tune it.
Excellent video, thank you. Would the ESC config recommendations apply to 6" and 7" quads too?
Yup
@@uavtech Does this work for BLHeli_S also? Ive done the jazzmavrik firmwire updates for bidirectional d-shot, but I've never played with any of the ESC settings in that config tool like you did. Is it still possible to get a decent tune without this step?
I set the TPA 1750 and 75% on my 5" 4S build, and it didn't like it! Got high pitch oscillations and REALLY hot Motors!
So that means your D-term gain magnitude is right up there (near limit). Set as desired. At default, TPA reduces D-term only so can work against PD Balance if no attention is paid to it.
@@uavtech I have D-Min turned off. Should I enable it and reduce the D-Min value?
I would leave off and just keep TPA active if seems to work best for ya.
Good one! I follow JB method.. So far so good.
Does this applied same at 4S or only in 6s like you flying now. Thanks
All S and all quad classes. It is just how you tune a pid controller.
Great video! I just did my first tuning using your steps. I cannot however hear the trilling oscillation so as soon i felt the motors getting warm, i backed down two notches. One question I have is, do we leave "D Min" toggled off? By the way, I have a tiny whoop (tinyhawk 2) no Black Box recorder.
I typically do, or turn on if i want some more overshoot control. In that case, user sliders to make D_min values the same relative gain numbers you found in the tuning process. Then during sharp moves or wash, gain D-gain boosts up toward max values.
So great! Just what I'm looking for. Why didn't you boost the PID sums to 1.000 before the tuning?
It was already done. Missed instructing that. It is less frequent it is a constrains than more. So for general, ok to keep out to keep simple.
@@uavtech So I spend some packs on testing out the slider tuning you introduce here and I'm very impressed, never had a nearly locked in quad in such a short time! I would appreciate some additional hints on how to setup antigravity, throttle boost and some other "side features" right.
Btw.: did you turn pidsums back to 500? Is it OK to let them at 1.000?
Thank you, that's a great approach. Is it possible you're able to do similar for something like a 3" set up?
Yep, it is the same process though.
After watching this I finally tried out the sliders on a fresh install of 4.2 on a 3 inch. This is by far the best it's ever flown. Now I just have to start learning blackbox
Hi Mark, thank you for the very helpful tuning guide!!! Can you tell me, why you only look at the Roll-Axis during the Tuning? So far i have only looked at the Pitch-Axis (and go crazy with Overshoots and Bouncebacks in Flips already at BF Stock Values). Should I always only look at the Roll-Axis?
You can look at either.
Awesome video! I've finally got my quad flying how it should fly, is it worth turning on VBAT PID Compensation? Also, should the I Term Relax Type be set to Gyro if its for freestyle and Setpoint for racing? Cheers, and thanks for helping the community out!
i-Term Relax, Setpoint mode is good now a days. It was Improved.
VBAT PID is up to you. It boosts PIDs as battery dies to give a more consistent feel. Battery Sag Compensation does better as it boosts throttle too.
@@uavtech Just a follow-up question I had, after tuning and finding the right balance for PIDs, am I to re-enable D Min?
Not sure if it was already asked but did you end up reverting any of the items from the beginning of the video? Such as the TPA stuff.
Yes, no pid tuning without logs 👍👀🇭🇷
I like your method. What's the other method of using the sliders (the method that required changing how the pd balance works)?
It use to old D and move up P as you moved PD Balance higher. Now it holds P. :-(
👍👍👍
Thank you! I’ve been trying to get my quad tuned and it just won’t cooperate, so hopefully this should help! The filters you adjusted at the beginning - are they necessary for the tuning you did, or more of a personal preference? Thanks!
Personal general recommendation.
If you switched from BF to Actual rates that could explain it.
UAV Tech awesome, thank you!
Sweet supper easy to follow !!!! My 6 year old son says more fortnight videos PLEASE !!!!!!
He saw your sons comment at the end ha ha Ha LOL he wants me to make a video so he can do a comment at the end of my video now ha ha Ha LOL ☺️☺️☺️☺️😊😊😊
It does crack me up every time i watch it when putting it in at the end of an edit.
What gems you can get when leaving a kid with a camera.
UAV Tech yes I know ever time I catch it I laugh 😂 !!!!
So I got black box working I opened the log file wasn’t sure what to select so I select a motors graph not sure if that’s right ? LOL I selected debug scaled in a motors graph. It almost looks like one motor is maxing out a lot.
I have a question and don’t know who else might have the answer but you!
If I apply throttle scale, does betaflight adjust TPA breakpoint? Or is that something I should do? If I should make an adjustment, which direction?
Your preset tune made my whoop fly like a dream!
Thanks for the content! I’m a huge fan
It does because scaling is in the mixer and TPA is in the PID loop (prior to Mixer).
@@uavtech one follow up question. Do you have preferred method of taming throttle between scaling and expo?
I have a hard time believing you can see bounce back when hitting final roll setpoint (you called "entering") without BB. and at 10:32 lol thanks for sharing
On the Rateprofile Settings, you have the type to Actual instead of BetaFlight. Should we make this change and copy your values?
I'm try to understand , I'm scared , my bit dumb 😔 but tell you one thing ! Your prebuild I but in my C7's is asking . Wish you was the guy next door ! Lol
Ahhh ok so you did do a setup before the packs
Hey Mark, got a quick question. I have been working on my pids, I have gotten to a point where i am getting trilling durning 0 throttle maneuvers. Like a roll or a flip, during the flip it sounds like a dump trucks breaks, or horn. Its only during flips or rolls. The noise is all comming from pitch dterm. Pd balance is on pitch and roll is 1.1. 55roll p, 50roll d, 60pitch p, 55pitch d. It looks like a trilling ossilations on pitch dterm on the log, but doesnt sound the same because it only does it at 0 throttle.. To much D I think, and to high of FF. 1.5 on slider (148ish) thanks
As someone who doesn't really get this stuff but watched the whole video anyway, my conclusion is this:
It's pretty hard to mess up a Betaflight 4.2 tune. You can induce bounce back IF you drastically reduce the PD balance slider, and you can induce oscillation IF you drastically increase the P and D gain. If you don't go overboard with the sliders your quad is going to fly pretty well. If you like to play with logs, you can lock in a tighter tune, but if you aren't an advanced pilot, you probably won't be able to tell the difference anyway.
Am I wrong?
I know that it is guys like UAV Tech that really do understand this stuff that we have to thank for how far firmware like Betaflight has taken the performance of mini quads for the rest of us.
With a 5" quad with reasonable power to weight. You are correct.
For a whoop or 7", you will need to tune it; or change the defaults.
Did you leave the filter sliders at 1.5 indefinitely, or did you come back and tweak them afterward?
So in your experience for a 6 inch 6s quad should be around 1.7 for pd balance and gain?
The thing doesn't want to be detuned! 😄
Mate this is awesome. I use your technique on my 7" model with few changes. Now it's stable. Now I'm fighting with 0 throttle and quad is still gliding for like 4-5 sec and them descend. Any tip how to fight that?
Sounds like a vibration issue. Lower the Filter Sliders.
Please try Mamba F7SS + F50 pro esc. This stack very dificult tuning in the world🔥
That means it has bad. Get another. It should be mo different. Sounds like a bad Gyro. / electrical noise. Throw it out if that is the case.
Very nice video! Don't understand that ff boost though
19:40
It took me a week to build a 4inch cmw shocker and i Just Maiden it.. but iets verry jittery.. now i have one more dat left to try and tune it.. is this Also a good method for 4inch? (with naked gopro auw is 350gram with 850mah 4s 2004 3100kv motors)