JB: smashes quad into his driveway, almost certainly broke something. Also JB: oh we’re on a new quad now so I can show you the issue. That’s the only reason why 😂
Raising the throttle min has been my go to fix for setups on 4.2 on micro builds. I had a 4" light weight build in particular that was having wobbles and sometimes even motor desyncs at low throttle. I raised the throttle min from 5.5 to 7% and haven't seen the issue again since. It's good to see a few other options here that I haven't tried before .
Is What you mention (throttle min) the same "D min" JB talks in the beginning of the video or it is a different setting? If diferent could you please tell me where to find it? Thanks
You always have the best solutions and recommendations. Thank you Joshua! Drones are an already technical hobby, it would be great if so called beta flight updates didn’t make it even more complicated. It’s definitely a buzz kill for any new person beginning into the hobby.
JB is a Great place to start learning how to tune. Learning to interpret the BB data is worth the effort. I get it, so many people don’t want to put in the work to truly understand a thing.
Another calm, sunny morning on the JB Farm.....Im only here for that, its so inspiring. Im also very pissed off I dont have that kind of weather almost year round....Nice doggie..
I solved my problems with 4.2 by updating to 4.1, where my drones flew ~flawlessly~. 4.2 never offered anything super important that made me want to deal with it.
That’s what I’ll be doing tonight “updating” back to 4.1 I can get 4.2 to fly as good without loads of trade offs. Only need 4.1 to have rpm filtering so I’ll be staying there not even interest in 4.3 now
Your video saved me days of frustration!! I thought it was some artifact but didn't know why and how to avoid it. As you always say, I learned something after watching your video!!
I definitely learned a lot today. Thank you. I just purchased my first 5-in (1900 KV motors). It came flashed with data bataflight 4.2. I had 4.2 on my 3-in quads but didn't notice any problems at low throttle. So My new 6s 5-in drone flew great but I couldn't put my finger on what was going on and why I couldn't do... Low throttle maneuvers. Especially pitch but my rolls were not as much of a problem. I ended up changing the frequency in Bl-heli_ 32 that you were talking about to 24htz And it did solve the problem. Thank you, I really do learn a lot from your videos. I'm not sure that FPV would be gaining as much momentum as it is if it wasn't for content like yours.
Ikr!! I was telling them over on the FB forums months ago about this bobble. Which in my quad was worse just on take off. They didn't believe me and wanted me to flash old firmware and jump through these hoops to replicate it. Even after posting videos of the issue clear as day I was still getting jerk responses. Even from the devs.
I had this issue on heavier 5” quads or quads with larger prop size. I’ve tried all the solutions and thrust linear seemed to provide the best results. I was only setting it to 12. I have stopped using this on a few quads and have switches to using the BLHeli 32 option in the beta for setting a minimum and maximum PWM. This definitely is the best solution if you are willing to run the beta ESC firmware.
Instead of setting PWM frequency, you set a low and high value for PWM frequency. Since the issues with BetaFlight happen at low throttle, you can have it at or close to 24 and at high throttle it can be at or near 48. You need to be on the latest version of the configuration utility and you need to download the firmware from the github account. I just downloaded the repository to get them. The firmware files need to be moved into a folder that is in a blheli folder probably located in you users document folder.
Hey Josh. I think you missed another pretty easy solution. Change the props to something with a bit more pitch. Current props are trending to lower pitch but what a lot of people aren't stressing is the need for higher rpms (and therefore kv) to balance that thrust deficit at lower rpms. And add that to pilots at higher altitudes (with less dense air) and you get a lot of confused pilots who see their favorite pilots at lower altitudes raving about low pitch props and they aren't seeing the same results.
Concerning Thrust Linearization... Last week I installed a new FC. I flashed my Beta85x to BF 4.3 and hit "apply defaults" as suggested. It set the TL to 25% and I had NO IDEA WTF was going on with my drone! As long as I was giving it throttle it would be fine, but as soon as I tried to lose altitude it was basically trying to hover! After watching this video I'm almost certain this is the issue! Heading out to try it now after turning it off! (Ill report back with results)
Hi Joshua, try BLHELI 32 13.7.3 Beta, it supports dynamic PWM. That means on low throttle it will run low pwn for maximum stability and on high throttle high PWM for maximum smoothness. You can adjust the range between highest and lowest PWM value. It's a great feature, I've already tested it.
Hey Joshua, try it with a quad with 2207 motors and D-min turned on. I remember about Kabab complaining a lot about that (I just don't know about D-min). BTW, that's what I call a good boy! Congrats, he seems like a fantastic dog! 😃 Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
thank you for making this video...this is why i started buying fettec. I could get it to fly amazingly but I couldn't get rid of the low throttle bobble.
@@kandredfpv u have to tune it and u have to be on 48khz.. if your pids are already MEGA high on 48khz, and u turn this on, of course yer gu nna ge thtat low stuff. but u should NOT be using thrust_linear with 24khz. period.
@@Krunked I thought 48khz pwm was just for micros. Anyhow thrust linearization was working fine on one of my quads with 24khz esc without any problems on BF4.1 then low throttle oscillations started when I went to 4.2
Or for the BLHeli32 ESCs, you could flash them to 32.73 beta firmware which allows for variable PWM. It changes the PWM frequency to the motors based on the throttle position. You basically get 24kHz at low throttle, and then 48kHz or 96kHz for F3 ESCs at high throttle.
What a great video....and just in time for all the rain in Oregon. And then I wonder when the next day will be that'll be clear enough that I can actually test these things
I actually noticed this issue on 4.1 and ever since. I believe Ryan from MiniQuadTestBench had mentioned it as well but I could be mistaken. It had something to do with RPM filtering if I recall correctly.
I never really had this problem but I've been running 7% idle, because I prefer a longer upright hang and I always disable d_min as well. I primarily run 2207 2400kv motors and it's been pretty slick. Can't wait for 4.3
Josh thank you so much for doing this vid!! I posted one in betaflight just recently of me having this issue really bad after updating to 4 2. Mine instability is more all time just above mid throttle and smooth on punch but pretty close to what your describing here. Found that my stack bottom o rings spreaded out on esc my be resting on bottom front of plate. Esc and FC are the slide in together pin kind. So gonna start there and if that dont work definitely gonna give your advice try after. Thank you man!!
There's also one big OpenTX setting that easily fixed this for me. It was turning the Hardware ADC off in my transmitter's settings. For some reason on my FrSky QX7 it was enabled by default.
This was one of your best videos yet. I’m still on 3.57 and I learned so much. Every time I had a question brewing you just answered it. Toward the end I was wondering about the Ciotti tune and then you addressed that too. I guess I’ll forgive you for blowing off this week’s livestream to go fly with your friends. Thanks JB!
Hi JB, thanks for addressing this issue. I have been having this low throttle stability issues and I have been asking around but did not get any straight answer or solution. The problem appears when I try to keep the drone at one spot, completely motionless, after a second the drone starts hovering all around and trying to stabilize it is very hard, almost impossible. The way I fixed this is turning off AIRMODE. Yes, with airmode OFF, the drone stays rock solid at one place and does not move at all, even if it starts moving around, it is very easy to stabilize it again with the sticks. Yeah, I know AIR mode OFF is not ideal. I tried changing Dynamic Idle the way it was described on the betaflight wiki but it did not do a thing. Would be happy to learn how other people solved this! I will try the D min OFF and thrust linear tomorrow. I have a 5" quad with BF4.2.
Tried D min OFF and thrust linear to 25 but did not help. Now I think my issue is a bit different it is actually keeping the quad at a fixed position in the air which happens at a bit higher throttle actually.
Good video. Got a Mob 6 and tried 48kh. Went right back to 24. Did not like the loss of throttle resalution. I will take tourque and controll over an extra 30 seconds of flight.......
I have Kababs 3" toothpick with this problem, and decreasing ESC pwm, helped with this problem. And have 5" drone where I do not see this problem at all.
bf 4.2 gave me a ton of problems. there are some features i really like, but this is the first time i had to watch every single video from you and uav how to troubleshoot sth. in bf 4.2. and all fixes are just tradeoffs. Some problems i wanted to discuss in different communities were often denied saying i am the only one with this problem. now i read the comments and - oh boy... big hopes for 4.3. - couldnt get any worse
@@uavtech i thought about this possibility you being sarcastic. i liked the other option more. sadly its exactly what I've found a lot in this community. a lot of stuff is overwhelming especially for people like me who didnt know the whole dev process of software and how all these features come together. So i try to get help. ive watched hundreds of videos. but for some problems i still cant find a solution. I asked the community and nearly everybody said it works for them. So conclusion - i am just to dump to get any version beyond bf 3.5.x working for me as i want. which is sad, bc i like many features of newer bf. But even then i dont get the point of salty comments. anyways... I much appreciate the hard work the devs and contentcreators do. I am a patreon of maybe 6 or 7 fpv related contentcreators or devs. I was also a patreon of you (one of the more expensive packages) but all i got on discord were arrogant anwers from one of your mods so i left. i give your presets a shot on weekend see if they did something else an maybe there is something i can learn from them. thanks and cheers
love your videos and your a good teacher keep up the good stuff. ps a side note I think you spend a lot of your time on your work, the pet needs more play time ;)
this is exactly this issue I have with a Aikon 20x20 AK 32 Pro 50amp that is 48-96pwm. I can tune it so it's perfect all over except when I drop throttle and float down it bobbles. I have an identical build using the Ak32 PIN esc that can do 24 pwm and it has zero issues. I tried everything in the video and nothing works to completely eliminate the descending bobble issue. what I found interesting is it fly smoother on 96 than 48 pwm with less issues. I'm going to pull the esc and wait for BF 4.3.
On 4.2, my 5” will skitter on the ground when armed. Put idle at 1.5 and it idles fine when armed. Raise the throttle, and it won’t go back to the arm idle of 1.5 unless I disarm. I’ve been landing by disarming 1”-2” off the ground. Is this related to the 4.2 issue?
I built the Tryo119 (thanks for your directions) and when I come out of zero throttle (loop, roll, or stall) it wildly oscillates and takes 2-3 seconds to recover. I'm hoping these tips help.
@@guilhermebruno9221 Sadly, no. That drone never handled inversion or fast moves well. Eventually, it had a short (probably unrelated) and I rebuilt it with new ESC and FC (same models). The rebuild has zero issues. So, maybe it was the ESC or the FC.
I noticed this low throttle instability just the other day and thought it was due to my dead cat frame lol but surely going ro try some of these to see what mine does
Yeah you should try flying 7" and above. Several of my 7" and 9" rigs require 12-14% dshot idle to get rid of the wobbles, plus all of the rest of the methods you've outlined. We also have issues with bounceback. The dev's persistent response to this is to say that we now have "low-authority" builds. This shit pisses me off. Just because my 9" doesnt track setpoint down to the milisecond doesn't mean it's suddenly low-authority. Just because they spent months nerding out over lightweight 5" quads tracking setpoint to the nth degree, doesn't mean their work is perfect. They've given all of us macro quad flyers the cold shoulder and pushed us out of the picture, refusing to acknowledge the issues they've caused.
9" are low authority. Sorry. Facts are facts. I have tuned lots of 9" and 10" rigs. It is pretty straightforward, but the inertia is much more since the arms are longer and motors and prop are heavier. Check out presets at: theuavtech.com/presets/ for all the quad classes. Yes, BF defaults are only really good for lightweight race rigs.
@@uavtech I have a degree in physics. I understand that larger quads are lower authority than 5". Thats obviously not the issue, given that this low-throttle instability was never a problem before. You're not making any significant point, and once again you're skirting the issue. You have created major problems for all large rig pilots that are not solvable with reasonable tuning methods. Regardless of what tuning mantras you repeat, there is no reason we should have to use 14% dshot idle to get rid of the wobble. The wobble that never existed before, and the same one you've failed to address in response to this video. Your only response so far has been to scoff at JBs inability to recreate the problem with a powerful 5", which is hardly a show of good faith to the community. Entitled? I don't need anything from you. Most of my rigs are tuned, despite the downsides of such a high idle value. My problem with you and the others is the typical coder's hubris and inability to have a reasonable discussion.
This has been going on for what, six months now? Never have I heard a single dev admit there's an issue. If there's no issue, then why does this video exist?
@@flaparoundfpv8632 , because you guys are too dumb to know that setting exist for a reason. Not everything from Whoop to Xclass will fly well on the same gains Mr. Physics. I think the solidarity of all the developer that contribute to BF should be a clue to tip you off that the world is not flat bud. You show me A-B tests of solid proof the "problem" magically appeared from one release to the next with the same Dshot idle, PID and filter setting. After that we can talk. I have $25 on that you won't, because you are too lazy AND that you can't. Of course proof lies in HD and LOGS! I have tuned 6", 7", 8" and 10" quads for folks (as a service no less) and have not had any problems. Again, the world is not flat my friend no matter how much you shout it from the hilltops.
Got this problem with BF 4.2 for my 6inch prop. If I change prop to 5,5inch the problem gone. I fix only low throttle instability in 6inch prop by lowering to 24khz PWM. Tried to change idle speed to 7 event 8 but problem still exist. Good luck!
I have small jitters just before full throttle punch. On 2 builds.. same stack 2207.5 and 2405. Both have the same wobbles before punch. Emuflight makes it better but not completely gone.
While playing with the pids I found that when the feed forward got higher, the wobbles got worse, I turned it back down to around 100 and cut iterm relax to 10. Seemed to help some.
yea my drone was doing that,.,. didnt know it was because of 4.2.. I thought i might of accidentally lowered idle or dynamic idle got turned on Edited: I just thought of the reason. I had a gopro on. so it weighed 100g more. Or 53% of its AUW lol Think I might have to raise idle for gopro
Such a drastic change in weight just requires a new tune. The throbbles should automatically get less with nice PID values. Also 4.3 will make anti-gravity more effective.
Upping D-term will solve most problem for me some people don’t tuned they quad and just complain every quad is different so it’s not possible for devs to come up with pids works with every single quad out there stock tune is good but not perfect.
Been having this issue since I updated firmware to 4.2. Tried dyn idle didnt work tried raising idle hasnt worked only thing havnt tried is thrust linear but I rather not use that lol next on list PWM!
Some say(can only remember kabab fpv), that the 22xx motors are worse at stability at low throttle,than the 2306 motors. I'm not sure I buy into it, but could be a contributing factor with wobbles at low throttle.
😀 Hi, and what about when there is no woobles during zero gaz descent ( like in the video ) But this woobles 😡 only come a lot when you begin to rise the throttle, during the descent ?
Instant upvote for crashing into a house :D Skipped that at first view. By the way awesome explanation for some important things under cryptic names in Betaflight configurator. Seems I need to undo some "improvements" in my quad settings. Are higher PWM doesn't matter more for quads under 5" anymore? Found out that Dynamic Idle in 4.2 is not usable for whoops like Mobula7. Setting it to above zero will cause unstable flight or whoop simply spaz out and don't fly at all.
Would frame resonance cause yaw twitching on mid throttle punchouts? I moved a quad into a newer frame, and depending on how aggressive of props I use, anywhere from 40 to 50 % throttle I get a horrible oscillation on the yaw axis... no idea how to fix it!
So in the rolling stock industry, withing the traction packs there is such a thing called variable voltage variable frequency (vvvf) motors. Can the variable frequency aspect be incorporated into the ESC firmware?
The D-term normally sort of reacts to the effects of P and I terms to dampen out their response so they don't overshoot and the rotation of the quad stops exactly where you want it, but when D term is high it also can react to vibration and when it does, it tries to drive and brake the motors at such a high frequency that it causes them to overheat. Many, if not most of the filtering options in Betaflight are about trying to reduce or eliminate known vibration frequencies such that D-term doesn't see and react to them.
Out of nowhere I started getting the wobbles on my Protek35 and I am on BF 4.3 and there is no D min toggle?? - I did most of the things you mentioned but the only thing that somewhat helped is putting the idle higher. But would love to hear any other solutions besides that.
i think i found it: first of all you can go to CLI and tipe in "get d_min" and i think unter PID Tuning PID profil settings D min = the Derivative for roll pitch and yaw
question, what if we increas P,( lowering I a little bit) and soften the P in higher rpm with TPA... so you have more P-power_stability in the lower rpm's but in higher rpms you soften the P values. so you don't overdo it when you crack up the rpm's
But what I don't understand is when I punch it and it feels like I'm on ice skates all the sudden. Then it smooths out. If you're not sure what I'm talking about you can watch any of my recent videos with The GEPRC dolphin doing a punch out. I don't remember what direction it goes but it kind of twists.
Hi Joshua, a hearty thanks for your content.. I literally learned to make a quad from you. I have faced a small problem with my latest quad. I have bought a prebuilt 3 inch quad with 1507 2400kv motor and crashed it and now 3rd motor is showing some vibrations.. pretty large ones. Now the motor belongs to darwinfpv, and they are not available locally. Can I just use some other make motor, lets say Racerstar 1507 2700kv motor as a replacement motor, or should I somehow have to change all 4. Motors are pretty pricey where I live. :(
Any idea how to fix similar wobbling for 75mm whoop in angle mode? I know than stabilized modes use separate calculations in Betaflight and not PID settings, but...
Hi Josh, I've got what I think is a different problem from this. Maybe you can point out what the issue might be, but my attempts to google it have failed miserably. I feel like my drone cannot hover level or has an inconsistent throttle. I've got a Nazgul 5 v2 4s and it feels like even if I attempt to keep my throttle as steady as possible, the drone will not act consistent. It will lower and then rise at the same throttle level. This transfers into me not being able to drop the drone when needed or have the throttle control I feel I should have. It also feels like it might happen more on different batteries. I have 4 ovonic 4s 1300mah, the exact same battery. I haven't numbered them to try and keep track of the issue to figure out which ones it might be though. I could also see it just being my subconscious fear of falling out of the sky :p If you have any ideas for what I could check, I'd be super grateful.
JBs dog is also getting stick time :)
JB: smashes quad into his driveway, almost certainly broke something.
Also JB: oh we’re on a new quad now so I can show you the issue. That’s the only reason why
😂
Ehh... that crash probably didn't break much. Maybe broke a prop, but I wouldn't expect anything worse than that.
@@vhfgamer ur quads must be pretty strong because that sortof crash would have definitely broken antenna mounts and possibly arms too.
@@H.J.B 2 storey fall onto concrete driveway you'd be lucky to get away from that with just an arm broken unless you luck out on the landing 😂
Everyone know that he can take next giveaway quad from old reviews to show us how he will smash it again ;)
I might have learned something today. 🤘
Yes Ken my G, 😂😂😂😂
Ken :D
Ken I love seeing you FPVing man. Sincerely
You keep doing this. I’m having a problem that I’m trying to figure out and bam you make a video about it. Thanks man!👍🏻
I agree. Right now I'm experiencing this problem also and Bardwell is there to help us out
Finally updated my flight controller and boom first flight had this issue. One reason I’m always behind on updates
Raising the throttle min has been my go to fix for setups on 4.2 on micro builds. I had a 4" light weight build in particular that was having wobbles and sometimes even motor desyncs at low throttle. I raised the throttle min from 5.5 to 7% and haven't seen the issue again since. It's good to see a few other options here that I haven't tried before .
Is What you mention (throttle min) the same "D min" JB talks in the beginning of the video or it is a different setting? If diferent could you please tell me where to find it? Thanks
1: Doggo is awesome!
2: Hits house TWICE!!!
Today I learned that bardwell has a dog!
He has a good boy.
Must be new round here lol (welcome!)
Named Mamba non the less. Hahaha
What if he also has a second dog and he's called SucceX? 😂
I"m still curious where he left a pig from videos circa 2017. It seems flied away.
You always have the best solutions and recommendations. Thank you Joshua! Drones are an already technical hobby, it would be great if so called beta flight updates didn’t make it even more complicated. It’s definitely a buzz kill for any new person beginning into the hobby.
JB is a Great place to start learning how to tune. Learning to interpret the BB data is worth the effort. I get it, so many people don’t want to put in the work to truly understand a thing.
Another calm, sunny morning on the JB Farm.....Im only here for that, its so inspiring. Im also very pissed off I dont have that kind of weather almost year round....Nice doggie..
I solved my problems with 4.2 by updating to 4.1, where my drones flew ~flawlessly~. 4.2 never offered anything super important that made me want to deal with it.
That’s what I’ll be doing tonight “updating” back to 4.1 I can get 4.2 to fly as good without loads of trade offs. Only need 4.1 to have rpm filtering so I’ll be staying there not even interest in 4.3 now
Your video saved me days of frustration!! I thought it was some artifact but didn't know why and how to avoid it. As you always say, I learned something after watching your video!!
I definitely learned a lot today. Thank you. I just purchased my first 5-in (1900 KV motors). It came flashed with data bataflight 4.2. I had 4.2 on my 3-in quads but didn't notice any problems at low throttle. So My new 6s 5-in drone flew great but I couldn't put my finger on what was going on and why I couldn't do... Low throttle maneuvers. Especially pitch but my rolls were not as much of a problem. I ended up changing the frequency in Bl-heli_ 32 that you were talking about to 24htz And it did solve the problem. Thank you, I really do learn a lot from your videos. I'm not sure that FPV would be gaining as much momentum as it is if it wasn't for content like yours.
I also had an unstable low throttle problem, now you solwe it, thanks!
Once again bardwell saves the day and I learned something ..
Finally. I tried to show people the wobbles and everyone said I was trippin
Ikr!! I was telling them over on the FB forums months ago about this bobble. Which in my quad was worse just on take off. They didn't believe me and wanted me to flash old firmware and jump through these hoops to replicate it. Even after posting videos of the issue clear as day I was still getting jerk responses. Even from the devs.
I had this issue on heavier 5” quads or quads with larger prop size. I’ve tried all the solutions and thrust linear seemed to provide the best results. I was only setting it to 12. I have stopped using this on a few quads and have switches to using the BLHeli 32 option in the beta for setting a minimum and maximum PWM. This definitely is the best solution if you are willing to run the beta ESC firmware.
Instead of setting PWM frequency, you set a low and high value for PWM frequency. Since the issues with BetaFlight happen at low throttle, you can have it at or close to 24 and at high throttle it can be at or near 48. You need to be on the latest version of the configuration utility and you need to download the firmware from the github account. I just downloaded the repository to get them. The firmware files need to be moved into a folder that is in a blheli folder probably located in you users document folder.
Hey Josh. I think you missed another pretty easy solution. Change the props to something with a bit more pitch. Current props are trending to lower pitch but what a lot of people aren't stressing is the need for higher rpms (and therefore kv) to balance that thrust deficit at lower rpms. And add that to pilots at higher altitudes (with less dense air) and you get a lot of confused pilots who see their favorite pilots at lower altitudes raving about low pitch props and they aren't seeing the same results.
Good points.
Concerning Thrust Linearization...
Last week I installed a new FC. I flashed my Beta85x to BF 4.3 and hit "apply defaults" as suggested.
It set the TL to 25% and I had NO IDEA WTF was going on with my drone! As long as I was giving it throttle it would be fine, but as soon as I tried to lose altitude it was basically trying to hover!
After watching this video I'm almost certain this is the issue! Heading out to try it now after turning it off! (Ill report back with results)
I'm using DALRC FC F405 and having this issue, so here I am watching your video and learning...
What a great intro! 🐶 love it
Hi Joshua, try BLHELI 32 13.7.3 Beta, it supports dynamic PWM. That means on low throttle it will run low pwn for maximum stability and on high throttle high PWM for maximum smoothness. You can adjust the range between highest and lowest PWM value. It's a great feature, I've already tested it.
Hey Joshua, try it with a quad with 2207 motors and D-min turned on. I remember about Kabab complaining a lot about that (I just don't know about D-min).
BTW, that's what I call a good boy! Congrats, he seems like a fantastic dog! 😃
Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
thank you for making this video...this is why i started buying fettec. I could get it to fly amazingly but I couldn't get rid of the low throttle bobble.
That dog is so awesome!
on 48khz, set thrust_linear = 25.
I always get those low throttle oscillations when I enable thrust_linearization, which sucks because I love the stick feel of that feature.
@@kandredfpv u have to tune it and u have to be on 48khz.. if your pids are already MEGA high on 48khz, and u turn this on, of course yer gu nna ge thtat low stuff. but u should NOT be using thrust_linear with 24khz. period.
@@Krunked I thought 48khz pwm was just for micros. Anyhow thrust linearization was working fine on one of my quads with 24khz esc without any problems on BF4.1 then low throttle oscillations started when I went to 4.2
@@kandredfpv no no no!
Or for the BLHeli32 ESCs, you could flash them to 32.73 beta firmware which allows for variable PWM. It changes the PWM frequency to the motors based on the throttle position. You basically get 24kHz at low throttle, and then 48kHz or 96kHz for F3 ESCs at high throttle.
What a great video....and just in time for all the rain in Oregon. And then I wonder when the next day will be that'll be clear enough that I can actually test these things
Thank you for a tutorial/troubleshooting video. Keep adding to the great repo of knowledge in the cloud.
Damn bardwell you smacked the hell out of the house 😂😂😂
I actually noticed this issue on 4.1 and ever since. I believe Ryan from MiniQuadTestBench had mentioned it as well but I could be mistaken. It had something to do with RPM filtering if I recall correctly.
No. It is just a low D-gain issue.
I never really had this problem but I've been running 7% idle, because I prefer a longer upright hang and I always disable d_min as well. I primarily run 2207 2400kv motors and it's been pretty slick. Can't wait for 4.3
Josh thank you so much for doing this vid!! I posted one in betaflight just recently of me having this issue really bad after updating to 4 2. Mine instability is more all time just above mid throttle and smooth on punch but pretty close to what your describing here. Found that my stack bottom o rings spreaded out on esc my be resting on bottom front of plate. Esc and FC are the slide in together pin kind. So gonna start there and if that dont work definitely gonna give your advice try after. Thank you man!!
There's also one big OpenTX setting that easily fixed this for me. It was turning the Hardware ADC off in my transmitter's settings. For some reason on my FrSky QX7 it was enabled by default.
what is hardware ADC? I have the same transmitter but have never heard of this. How do I find it? Thanks
This was one of your best videos yet. I’m still on 3.57 and I learned so much. Every time I had a question brewing you just answered it. Toward the end I was wondering about the Ciotti tune and then you addressed that too.
I guess I’ll forgive you for blowing off this week’s livestream to go fly with your friends.
Thanks JB!
Hi JB, thanks for addressing this issue. I have been having this low throttle stability issues and I have been asking around but did not get any straight answer or solution. The problem appears when I try to keep the drone at one spot, completely motionless, after a second the drone starts hovering all around and trying to stabilize it is very hard, almost impossible. The way I fixed this is turning off AIRMODE. Yes, with airmode OFF, the drone stays rock solid at one place and does not move at all, even if it starts moving around, it is very easy to stabilize it again with the sticks. Yeah, I know AIR mode OFF is not ideal. I tried changing Dynamic Idle the way it was described on the betaflight wiki but it did not do a thing. Would be happy to learn how other people solved this! I will try the D min OFF and thrust linear tomorrow. I have a 5" quad with BF4.2.
Tried D min OFF and thrust linear to 25 but did not help. Now I think my issue is a bit different it is actually keeping the quad at a fixed position in the air which happens at a bit higher throttle actually.
Good video. Got a Mob 6 and tried 48kh. Went right back to 24. Did not like the loss of throttle resalution. I will take tourque and controll over an extra 30 seconds of flight.......
I have Kababs 3" toothpick with this problem, and decreasing ESC pwm, helped with this problem. And have 5" drone where I do not see this problem at all.
Same experience here lot of wobble. But you can't see it in HD camera, just in fpv camera.
I think the Anti_Gravity feature can also help here. I suggest to set it up to 4.5.
Best. Intro. Ever.
LoL my heart almost melted on your dog
bf 4.2 gave me a ton of problems. there are some features i really like, but this is the first time i had to watch every single video from you and uav how to troubleshoot sth. in bf 4.2. and all fixes are just tradeoffs. Some problems i wanted to discuss in different communities were often denied saying i am the only one with this problem. now i read the comments and - oh boy... big hopes for 4.3. - couldnt get any worse
It will be worse. Move to another firmware.
@@uavtech not what i want to hear, but maybe you re right. :( thanks
@@tinicfpv7377 , I'm being sarcastic. Load a preset and you will be fine theuavtech.com/presets
@@uavtech i thought about this possibility you being sarcastic. i liked the other option more. sadly its exactly what I've found a lot in this community. a lot of stuff is overwhelming especially for people like me who didnt know the whole dev process of software and how all these features come together. So i try to get help. ive watched hundreds of videos. but for some problems i still cant find a solution. I asked the community and nearly everybody said it works for them. So conclusion - i am just to dump to get any version beyond bf 3.5.x working for me as i want. which is sad, bc i like many features of newer bf. But even then i dont get the point of salty comments. anyways... I much appreciate the hard work the devs and contentcreators do. I am a patreon of maybe 6 or 7 fpv related contentcreators or devs. I was also a patreon of you (one of the more expensive packages) but all i got on discord were arrogant anwers from one of your mods so i left. i give your presets a shot on weekend see if they did something else an maybe there is something i can learn from them. thanks and cheers
I love your sweat shirt !!!! That one is my favorite one !!!
love your videos and your a good teacher keep up the good stuff. ps a side note I think you spend a lot of your time on your work, the pet needs more play time ;)
Love your honesty
thx for sharing, i have watched a lot of your videos and helped me a lot
Dynamic Dterm also introduces more latency.
Thanks!
this is exactly this issue I have with a Aikon 20x20 AK 32 Pro 50amp that is 48-96pwm. I can tune it so it's perfect all over except when I drop throttle and float down it bobbles. I have an identical build using the Ak32 PIN esc that can do 24 pwm and it has zero issues.
I tried everything in the video and nothing works to completely eliminate the descending bobble issue. what I found interesting is it fly smoother on 96 than 48 pwm with less issues.
I'm going to pull the esc and wait for BF 4.3.
On 4.2, my 5” will skitter on the ground when armed. Put idle at 1.5 and it idles fine when armed. Raise the throttle, and it won’t go back to the arm idle of 1.5 unless I disarm. I’ve been landing by disarming 1”-2” off the ground. Is this related to the 4.2 issue?
I built the Tryo119 (thanks for your directions) and when I come out of zero throttle (loop, roll, or stall) it wildly oscillates and takes 2-3 seconds to recover. I'm hoping these tips help.
Did you fix it? I also built the Tyro119 and I'm facing the same problem :(
@@guilhermebruno9221 Sadly, no. That drone never handled inversion or fast moves well. Eventually, it had a short (probably unrelated) and I rebuilt it with new ESC and FC (same models). The rebuild has zero issues.
So, maybe it was the ESC or the FC.
Awesome video.
Keep on living your dreams.
Thanks JB
I've seen it more on 2207 motors than anything
I noticed this low throttle instability just the other day and thought it was due to my dead cat frame lol but surely going ro try some of these to see what mine does
I've literally spent the last 4 hours fixing issues. And this is one of my issues. Hopefully the last
Yeah you should try flying 7" and above. Several of my 7" and 9" rigs require 12-14% dshot idle to get rid of the wobbles, plus all of the rest of the methods you've outlined. We also have issues with bounceback. The dev's persistent response to this is to say that we now have "low-authority" builds. This shit pisses me off. Just because my 9" doesnt track setpoint down to the milisecond doesn't mean it's suddenly low-authority. Just because they spent months nerding out over lightweight 5" quads tracking setpoint to the nth degree, doesn't mean their work is perfect. They've given all of us macro quad flyers the cold shoulder and pushed us out of the picture, refusing to acknowledge the issues they've caused.
9" are low authority. Sorry. Facts are facts.
I have tuned lots of 9" and 10" rigs. It is pretty straightforward, but the inertia is much more since the arms are longer and motors and prop are heavier.
Check out presets at: theuavtech.com/presets/ for all the quad classes. Yes, BF defaults are only really good for lightweight race rigs.
@Russell Phelan AMEN Brother, AMEN.
Entitled I tell ya. Entitled.
@@uavtech I have a degree in physics. I understand that larger quads are lower authority than 5". Thats obviously not the issue, given that this low-throttle instability was never a problem before. You're not making any significant point, and once again you're skirting the issue. You have created major problems for all large rig pilots that are not solvable with reasonable tuning methods. Regardless of what tuning mantras you repeat, there is no reason we should have to use 14% dshot idle to get rid of the wobble. The wobble that never existed before, and the same one you've failed to address in response to this video. Your only response so far has been to scoff at JBs inability to recreate the problem with a powerful 5", which is hardly a show of good faith to the community.
Entitled? I don't need anything from you. Most of my rigs are tuned, despite the downsides of such a high idle value. My problem with you and the others is the typical coder's hubris and inability to have a reasonable discussion.
This has been going on for what, six months now? Never have I heard a single dev admit there's an issue. If there's no issue, then why does this video exist?
@@flaparoundfpv8632 , because you guys are too dumb to know that setting exist for a reason. Not everything from Whoop to Xclass will fly well on the same gains Mr. Physics.
I think the solidarity of all the developer that contribute to BF should be a clue to tip you off that the world is not flat bud.
You show me A-B tests of solid proof the "problem" magically appeared from one release to the next with the same Dshot idle, PID and filter setting. After that we can talk. I have $25 on that you won't, because you are too lazy AND that you can't. Of course proof lies in HD and LOGS!
I have tuned 6", 7", 8" and 10" quads for folks (as a service no less) and have not had any problems. Again, the world is not flat my friend no matter how much you shout it from the hilltops.
Disabeling D-Min does the thing on my Calypso 5"... Thanks!!!
Got this problem with BF 4.2 for my 6inch prop. If I change prop to 5,5inch the problem gone. I fix only low throttle instability in 6inch prop by lowering to 24khz PWM. Tried to change idle speed to 7 event 8 but problem still exist. Good luck!
Dynamic Idle is what I use. no wobbles on custom builds or RTF
Very informative video, learned a thing or two. 👍🤓
I have small jitters just before full throttle punch. On 2 builds.. same stack 2207.5 and 2405. Both have the same wobbles before punch. Emuflight makes it better but not completely gone.
What would be the best fix for going fast then doing a 180 yaw and drifting back
While playing with the pids I found that when the feed forward got higher, the wobbles got worse, I turned it back down to around 100 and cut iterm relax to 10. Seemed to help some.
Have you really called your dog Mamba as the flight controller/esc? :D
Thanks for that video, that might help me!
Sure you can tune a quad but did you tune the stick wobbles out of the dog?
yea my drone was doing that,.,. didnt know it was because of 4.2.. I thought i might of accidentally lowered idle or dynamic idle got turned on
Edited: I just thought of the reason. I had a gopro on. so it weighed 100g more. Or 53% of its AUW lol Think I might have to raise idle for gopro
Such a drastic change in weight just requires a new tune. The throbbles should automatically get less with nice PID values. Also 4.3 will make anti-gravity more effective.
Upping D-term will solve most problem for me some people don’t tuned they quad and just complain every quad is different so it’s not possible for devs to come up with pids works with every single quad out there stock tune is good but not perfect.
Thanks you just made my day
Been having this issue since I updated firmware to 4.2. Tried dyn idle didnt work tried raising idle hasnt worked only thing havnt tried is thrust linear but I rather not use that lol next on list PWM!
Some say(can only remember kabab fpv), that the 22xx motors are worse at stability at low throttle,than the 2306 motors.
I'm not sure I buy into it, but could be a contributing factor with wobbles at low throttle.
this is literally my problem ive been tuning my quad since tomorow and earlier i just got it to fly decent but still some vibrations
Did you adjust tpa while using thrust linear give it a whirl
Ha awesome doggo! I freaking love bf 4.2. Sooo awesome to tune. Great video!
My little UZ65 will spin on the yaw axis when dropping. Throws me way off and usually crashes. What will fix that?
😀 Hi, and what about when there is no woobles during zero gaz descent ( like in the video ) But this woobles 😡 only come a lot when you begin to rise the throttle, during the descent ?
Hey JB that's not a stick that's a branch 😁😉
Instant upvote for crashing into a house :D Skipped that at first view.
By the way awesome explanation for some important things under cryptic names in Betaflight configurator. Seems I need to undo some "improvements" in my quad settings.
Are higher PWM doesn't matter more for quads under 5" anymore?
Found out that Dynamic Idle in 4.2 is not usable for whoops like Mobula7. Setting it to above zero will cause unstable flight or whoop simply spaz out and don't fly at all.
Would frame resonance cause yaw twitching on mid throttle punchouts? I moved a quad into a newer frame, and depending on how aggressive of props I use, anywhere from 40 to 50 % throttle I get a horrible oscillation on the yaw axis... no idea how to fix it!
JB take my kwad for the wobble.
Build a 7" will for sure have this issue
24 kHz PWM fixed it for me
Ill try it
Dogo : vibin
Josh : *starts recording*
Dogo : Ight imma head out
Loved when you hit the barn your like mmm cool
my new Tyro 109 build was shuddering like crazy just on the bench and disabling dmin fixed it
Does it work on later versions? Thanks
So in the rolling stock industry, withing the traction packs there is such a thing called variable voltage variable frequency (vvvf) motors. Can the variable frequency aspect be incorporated into the ESC firmware?
Can you please explain why pid settings affect motor temperature.
it is D vibration.
The D-term normally sort of reacts to the effects of P and I terms to dampen out their response so they don't overshoot and the rotation of the quad stops exactly where you want it, but when D term is high it also can react to vibration and when it does, it tries to drive and brake the motors at such a high frequency that it causes them to overheat. Many, if not most of the filtering options in Betaflight are about trying to reduce or eliminate known vibration frequencies such that D-term doesn't see and react to them.
@@daemn42 perfect!!
Thank you for this. 👤
Out of nowhere I started getting the wobbles on my Protek35 and I am on BF 4.3 and there is no D min toggle?? - I did most of the things you mentioned but the only thing that somewhat helped is putting the idle higher. But would love to hear any other solutions besides that.
any news to your problem ?
i think i found it:
first of all you can go to CLI and tipe in "get d_min"
and i think unter PID Tuning PID profil settings D min = the Derivative for roll pitch and yaw
Can this help a smaller quad? Like my betafpv 95x v3?
If there's even just a little wind it really sets it off. Wobble wobble
question, what if we increas P,( lowering I a little bit) and soften the P in higher rpm with TPA... so you have more P-power_stability in the lower rpm's but in higher rpms you soften the P values. so you don't overdo it when you crack up the rpm's
Now that I think about it since this last update that im not getting the wobbles anymore
But what I don't understand is when I punch it and it feels like I'm on ice skates all the sudden. Then it smooths out.
If you're not sure what I'm talking about you can watch any of my recent videos with The GEPRC dolphin doing a punch out. I don't remember what direction it goes but it kind of twists.
Hi Joshua, a hearty thanks for your content.. I literally learned to make a quad from you.
I have faced a small problem with my latest quad. I have bought a prebuilt 3 inch quad with 1507 2400kv motor and crashed it and now 3rd motor is showing some vibrations.. pretty large ones. Now the motor belongs to darwinfpv, and they are not available locally. Can I just use some other make motor, lets say Racerstar 1507 2700kv motor as a replacement motor, or should I somehow have to change all 4. Motors are pretty pricey where I live. :(
Beta flight 4.2 on my 7” quad revs all over the place trying to find idle, on 6s it’s even worse.
Turn off Dynamic Idle
Any idea how to fix similar wobbling for 75mm whoop in angle mode? I know than stabilized modes use separate calculations in Betaflight and not PID settings, but...
Hi Josh, I've got what I think is a different problem from this. Maybe you can point out what the issue might be, but my attempts to google it have failed miserably. I feel like my drone cannot hover level or has an inconsistent throttle. I've got a Nazgul 5 v2 4s and it feels like even if I attempt to keep my throttle as steady as possible, the drone will not act consistent. It will lower and then rise at the same throttle level. This transfers into me not being able to drop the drone when needed or have the throttle control I feel I should have. It also feels like it might happen more on different batteries. I have 4 ovonic 4s 1300mah, the exact same battery. I haven't numbered them to try and keep track of the issue to figure out which ones it might be though. I could also see it just being my subconscious fear of falling out of the sky :p If you have any ideas for what I could check, I'd be super grateful.