a couple of things to note as well. There was original talk of a UNIT spin-off (yes another one) and David could be a part of it. Secondly, The Doctor is still technically married to River
For "The one who waits"/"The Boss" i actually have a theory that it could be Omega from The three doctors special. My mind immediately jumped to him for two reason. 1. Omega knows how to manipulate stars, it was how he ended up trapped in the first place and when the meep said "The Boss" I imagine they're referring to the being who altered their sun to turn them insane. 2. Who would the toymaker be afraid of? A being whose mind is so powerful he can shape reality on the same level as the toymaker but not out of fun and play like he does, but out of anger and rage and hate like Omega. Omega had been trapped for thousands of years waiting for his revenge, That feels like a lot of waiting to me!
It's a time loop. Ncuti said, "I'm okay because you fix yourself." Which means, eventually he will turn into the 15th Doctor and be recalled to save himself before moving on.
Oooooh, okay, I get that now. Sometimes I miss things or sometimes it takes a bit for my head to catch on. But that makes sense, thanks for explaining :)
@@Shelma32Reactions it’s not your fault. It’s a small line and some people miss it. I realised it my second time watching the scene. RTD loves to leave it purposefully vague though
@@chazo1367 I think leaving things a little vague allows for speculation from the fans which leads to discourse and word spread and so on. Which can be both good and bad, because sometimes fans do get carried away with it. But I think that this is going to spawn so many theories until we get a solid answer.
@@ilko962 Even though this entire situation is a bit off, in the past we've seen situations where future doctors don't remember meeting themselves before until after they're done. That's why 11th didn't remember meeting himself or 10th when he was the war doctor etc.
Remember the 50th, the now bigenerated Doctor retires and lives out his life on Earth, regenerates revisiting "just a few of the old favorites, eh" and becomes the Curator and takes the TARDIS back to visit 11, the long way round.
Loved the fact that David is why Ncuti wanted to be an actor. Same way Tom was for David. And most likely William was for Peter C. 🙂 These three Specials has been a glorious thing to be given to watch! I sincerely hope WHOniverse end up on D+ while we wait for Ncuti's actual season. Also I knew the moment he was cast he'd smash it. Susan and Ian can show up on the rumored(?) UNIT spin off.
omg, I didn't know that David is why Ncuti wanted to be an actor. That's wonderful. I hope that WHOniverse ends up D+ as well as it's a great thing for us here in the UK on BBC IPlayer. I would love for Susan to show up in anything tbh, she deserves to be on screen and get the treatment she deserves. If Ian is in it again in any capacity, I would be extremely happy as he's my favourite.
@@Shelma32ReactionsI spoke to my friend about this episode and what he said was so beautiful about the bi generation I had to share it: As once described by 10 (now 14) time is not linear. It's more of a timey wimey ball. And given the Doctor's origins it's fair to say he doesn't play by the standard rules of time. And they're not wrong. He's been on the go since his "first" incarnation. Let alone what happened before that. He needs time to live. It's a wonderful way to look back on the character and realise they're broken. Finally after 60 years the Doctor reached their breaking point and need to heal. And the way 15 says to him "it's okay. You did nothing wrong. Do yourself a favour and give yourself a break." It's such a human way of when you look back at your past when you're older and the mature thing to do is forgive yourself
One of RTD's plans is to spin off a separate series about UNIT. It's fairly obvious that Kate Stewart, Shirley Bingham, Melanie Bush, Donna Noble, and The Vlinx will be the primary characters in the new show. And since Fourteen is now a member of Donna's family he may show up from time to time. For now, though, he's busy adjusting to family life, learning to relax, loving and being loved, using the TARDIS to go off on occasional sightseeing jaunts to New York or Mars, and using his sonic screwdriver to give the moles little force fields so Wilf can take pot shots at the moles to his heart's content and the moles will still be okay.
@@andco53 That would be up to BBC and the actors. The actors' careers didn't end when they left _Doctor Who;_ I have no idea what their current commitments are. At a guess, Sophie Aldred (Ace) and Janet Fielding (Tegan) are more likely to appear in occasional cameos or guest roles. Freema Agyeman may still be available, if she wishes to continue as Martha. But I haven't seen any rumors and I don't believe RTD has given any hints about these characters. Certainly we didn't see them in _"The Giggle."_
Joke answer to The One Who Waits? Obviously it's Amy Pond, The Girl Who Waited. Nothing scarier than an angry ginger Scottish woman that's also the Doctor's mother in law, and repeatedly kept waiting.
The time loop seems pretty simple enough, with 15 saying he's only okay because 14 took time to heal. "We're doing rehab out of order." What doesn't make sense, immediately, is why he needed any of 14s clothes during their split. But MAYBE... (fanfic time) 14 grows old with Donna's family, slips and falls in the tub, and is sent back to the UNIT tower mid-regeneration, naked, to finish the loop! Haha, something close to that would fit the story for sure. (Now, I STILL don't have a clue what the in-story explanation could be for the 13-to-14 new clothes.)
Susan was played by Carole Ann Ford, who is now 83 years old. This means she was actually 23 years old when she began playing Susan, who was supposedly a schoolgirl. Presumably Susan is, at the very least, all grown up now, with her own career, and grandchildren or great grandchildren, and that's assuming that Gallifrey survived. So, how do you suggest that Fourteen should find her, and persuade her to relocate to Earth in order to be near her grandfather? I think it's unlikely.
while it would be lovely to see Carole Ann Ford return we wouldn't nessecarily need her in order for Susan to make a return Time Lords have 13 lives after all (and if she really is the Doctor's biological granddaughter she could've inhereted some of their Timeless Child infinite regenerations thing), and I'm pretty sure Susan was on her first life, she has 12 left. probably the best way to do things would be to bring Carole Ann Ford back, give her a good few episodes as Susan, and then have her regenerate.
@@sortascouseace Really? Good to know; it's a very long time since I watched the Hartnell era. She's still presumably a grandmother or great grandmother, but Fourteen does have a TARDIS to facilitate visits. It could certainly turn into a plot point. I'm not sure what the BBC's arrangements are with David Tennant regarding further appearances, and the most likely venue continues to be the new show about UNIT. I suspect Fourteen's life in retirement is going to be a fairly minor part of the show(s) going forward, more something that Donna mentions in passing when she's at work than something we see ourselves. I'm also not at all sure what if any part of the UNIT spinoff will be made accessible outside of the UK. I'm pretty sure it isn't part of the deal with Disney. There's already content around the 60th anniversary celebration that's only available in the UK, which is frankly insulting to loyal Whovians in the rest of the world.
As a trio it a was a good anniversary . My favourites were the second and this one RTD. did a pretty good job . Lovely to see Bernard Cribbins at the end of 2 and Mel in this one . I enjoyed your thoughts on the episode . The "baddie " female time Lord was The Rani and Romana was the minder companion installed by the Time Lord's . It's a complicated old Universe , two David Tennants - counting the one with Rose , three Tardis's counting Claras so there are plenty of spin off opportunities . I wouldn't mind one , but I would hate to see it flogged to death like Star Trek with multiple versions . I did see an intriguing suggestion that David's 14 th Doctor could become the Curator remembering Tom Bakers line about old faces in the 50th .
Oooh, I like the idea that 14 ends up becoming the Curator. I couldn't quite remember the name The Rani in the moment. I hate when my head withholds things that I know I know, lol. I am very intrigued and excited to see what RTD has in store for us.
Rumored UNIT Spin-off, Tennant could have a Guest Role there, so can Tate (after all she got a job there now) also, both can always return now in the "Main" Show, if Ncuti or future Doctors need help.
Also they have already confirmed we DONT KNOW who the Boss is. That is something that will come out with 15. The Toymaker literally could not be the boss. He founf his was into reality because of the superstition The Doctor did at the edge of the universe.
Dr. 10/14 is going to relax and live his life and basically do therapy and become Dr. 15 since he did explain they do therapy out of order and when it's time he will just be 15 that's what I'm getting but I could be wrong
Bigenerational from what I can make out from BTS and dialogue... This is not two doctors, this is still one Doctor. 14 will eventually regenerate completely in to 15 at the point we see him do it here. 15 comes from WAYYYY in to the future in a way, after 14 has lived a normal life. 14 is effectively living a normal-ish life as a means to rehabilitate himself and for once in his existence, rest. When he has done that (maybe a million years like he said to Donna in ep2) he will be ready to go and the time line goes back to the regeneration in to 15. It's a bit like a meta Crysis but rather than two timelords at the same time, it's one split over two timelines. Ands what a treat for David, he gets to be the "current" Doctor essentially forever.
It's complicated but it is starting to make sense to make. Takes my brain a bit to catch on sometimes, lol. But it allows for all sorts of adventures with 14 (comics, audiobooks, etc) without interfering with 15's canon.
Yeah that’s my takeaway too, once 14 regenerates later he gets pulled back as 15 to this moment with the Toymaker and completes the loop and it repeats. 14 wasn’t meant to die here so time likely compensated.
Hold on is this how 14 is in the doctor who annual against the sycorax because i cant find any other way to fit it in to the timeline thats before the star beast so it must be after this.
Why would they mention Susan. Shes Galifraian. How do we even know if shes alive?? Mentioning her would have been incredibly confusing. Very few people would understand that.
We have no idea who is the one who waits, or who is the boss. Or the legions who are coming. All of that information is still under Russell T. Davies's hat. He has hinted, though, that some of the gods The Doctor has encountered over the years may be involved.
I'm guessing bi-generation is open to interpretation. My take is 15 has all the remaining regeneration energy, so he's THE Doctor. 14 won't regenerate, and would just disappear instead of regenerating. I guess 15 has some awareness of 14's memories because time stuff! 😀 Although what happens next time Earth has a big alien invasion! 😀
Wow... that was one hell of a special. I think it's going to take a bit to get my head round it!
I hope you all enjoy the reaction :)
a couple of things to note as well. There was original talk of a UNIT spin-off (yes another one) and David could be a part of it. Secondly, The Doctor is still technically married to River
The tooth WAS the master. The toymaker said he trapped the Master in his gold tooth
For "The one who waits"/"The Boss" i actually have a theory that it could be Omega from The three doctors special. My mind immediately jumped to him for two reason.
1. Omega knows how to manipulate stars, it was how he ended up trapped in the first place and when the meep said "The Boss" I imagine they're referring to the being who altered their sun to turn them insane.
2. Who would the toymaker be afraid of? A being whose mind is so powerful he can shape reality on the same level as the toymaker but not out of fun and play like he does, but out of anger and rage and hate like Omega. Omega had been trapped for thousands of years waiting for his revenge, That feels like a lot of waiting to me!
doubt it the celestial toymaker is above the time lords so omega wouldn`t scare off the toymaker
@@setsunatenma9467yeah I feel like it would have to be another celestial
It was pointed out to me that when they split the outfit, 15 walked away with the underwear. So 14 was going commando for that whole climax
Hahahaha, I thought about the rest of the clothing but not the fact that it meant that 14 was commando lol.
PHRASING!!!! ;)
It's a time loop. Ncuti said, "I'm okay because you fix yourself." Which means, eventually he will turn into the 15th Doctor and be recalled to save himself before moving on.
Oooooh, okay, I get that now. Sometimes I miss things or sometimes it takes a bit for my head to catch on. But that makes sense, thanks for explaining :)
@@Shelma32Reactions it’s not your fault. It’s a small line and some people
miss it. I realised it my second time watching the scene.
RTD loves to leave it purposefully vague though
@@chazo1367 I think leaving things a little vague allows for speculation from the fans which leads to discourse and word spread and so on. Which can be both good and bad, because sometimes fans do get carried away with it. But I think that this is going to spawn so many theories until we get a solid answer.
@@Shelma32Reactions Except if this is the case, why would 15 say he doesn't know how bigenerations work. He would have already experienced this.
@@ilko962 Even though this entire situation is a bit off, in the past we've seen situations where future doctors don't remember meeting themselves before until after they're done. That's why 11th didn't remember meeting himself or 10th when he was the war doctor etc.
Remember the 50th, the now bigenerated Doctor retires and lives out his life on Earth, regenerates revisiting "just a few of the old favorites, eh" and becomes the Curator and takes the TARDIS back to visit 11, the long way round.
I'm old enough to remember Bernard Cribbins from The Wombles in the 1970's 😊
Bernard was around for multiple generations of people and it was heart breaking when he passed.
Me too
Loved the fact that David is why Ncuti wanted to be an actor. Same way Tom was for David. And most likely William was for Peter C. 🙂
These three Specials has been a glorious thing to be given to watch!
I sincerely hope WHOniverse end up on D+ while we wait for Ncuti's actual season.
Also I knew the moment he was cast he'd smash it.
Susan and Ian can show up on the rumored(?) UNIT spin off.
omg, I didn't know that David is why Ncuti wanted to be an actor. That's wonderful.
I hope that WHOniverse ends up D+ as well as it's a great thing for us here in the UK on BBC IPlayer. I would love for Susan to show up in anything tbh, she deserves to be on screen and get the treatment she deserves. If Ian is in it again in any capacity, I would be extremely happy as he's my favourite.
I did NOT see that ending coming but so glad they didn't kill off Tennant's Doctor.
I was very surprised by the ending. I'm glad that David is still around in a way too :)
I'm not to be honest because it undermines all the other Doctors that was just lazy writing.
@@joshuaverran9443 I can understand that, plus it could be made difficult considering filming for Sandman and 🤞🤞 Good Omens S3.
@@Shelma32ReactionsI spoke to my friend about this episode and what he said was so beautiful about the bi generation I had to share it:
As once described by 10 (now 14) time is not linear. It's more of a timey wimey ball.
And given the Doctor's origins it's fair to say he doesn't play by the standard rules of time.
And they're not wrong. He's been on the go since his "first" incarnation. Let alone what happened before that. He needs time to live. It's a wonderful way to look back on the character and realise they're broken. Finally after 60 years the Doctor reached their breaking point and need to heal.
And the way 15 says to him "it's okay. You did nothing wrong. Do yourself a favour and give yourself a break." It's such a human way of when you look back at your past when you're older and the mature thing to do is forgive yourself
The tooth contains The Master. Master couldn't be banished as he didn't lose the game where banishment was the forfeit.
That is a good point. I'm definitely intrigued to see what they might do with that.
One of RTD's plans is to spin off a separate series about UNIT. It's fairly obvious that Kate Stewart, Shirley Bingham, Melanie Bush, Donna Noble, and The Vlinx will be the primary characters in the new show. And since Fourteen is now a member of Donna's family he may show up from time to time. For now, though, he's busy adjusting to family life, learning to relax, loving and being loved, using the TARDIS to go off on occasional sightseeing jaunts to New York or Mars, and using his sonic screwdriver to give the moles little force fields so Wilf can take pot shots at the moles to his heart's content and the moles will still be okay.
That would be so cool!!!
Hey weren't Martha, Tegan and Ace all confirmed to work for UNIT at different points as well? Maybe they could also be in it!
@@andco53 That would be up to BBC and the actors. The actors' careers didn't end when they left _Doctor Who;_ I have no idea what their current commitments are. At a guess, Sophie Aldred (Ace) and Janet Fielding (Tegan) are more likely to appear in occasional cameos or guest roles. Freema Agyeman may still be available, if she wishes to continue as Martha. But I haven't seen any rumors and I don't believe RTD has given any hints about these characters. Certainly we didn't see them in _"The Giggle."_
Joke answer to The One Who Waits? Obviously it's Amy Pond, The Girl Who Waited. Nothing scarier than an angry ginger Scottish woman that's also the Doctor's mother in law, and repeatedly kept waiting.
That would be absolutely hilarious and kind of awesome, even if it is unlikely lol.
The time loop seems pretty simple enough, with 15 saying he's only okay because 14 took time to heal. "We're doing rehab out of order."
What doesn't make sense, immediately, is why he needed any of 14s clothes during their split.
But MAYBE... (fanfic time) 14 grows old with Donna's family, slips and falls in the tub, and is sent back to the UNIT tower mid-regeneration, naked, to finish the loop! Haha, something close to that would fit the story for sure.
(Now, I STILL don't have a clue what the in-story explanation could be for the 13-to-14 new clothes.)
There are lots of Doctors including of course the Curator!
I'm in the U.S., so I haven't seen everything Bernard Cribbins was in; I know him only as Wilf. That was enough. I cried, too.
We always have had more doctors. They have a time machine. At any given time... in any given space, there are as many doctors as there needs to be. :)
Susan was played by Carole Ann Ford, who is now 83 years old. This means she was actually 23 years old when she began playing Susan, who was supposedly a schoolgirl.
Presumably Susan is, at the very least, all grown up now, with her own career, and grandchildren or great grandchildren, and that's assuming that Gallifrey survived. So, how do you suggest that Fourteen should find her, and persuade her to relocate to Earth in order to be near her grandfather? I think it's unlikely.
susan isnt on galifrey susan is on earth in the future
while it would be lovely to see Carole Ann Ford return we wouldn't nessecarily need her in order for Susan to make a return
Time Lords have 13 lives after all (and if she really is the Doctor's biological granddaughter she could've inhereted some of their Timeless Child infinite regenerations thing), and I'm pretty sure Susan was on her first life, she has 12 left.
probably the best way to do things would be to bring Carole Ann Ford back, give her a good few episodes as Susan, and then have her regenerate.
@@sortascouseace Really? Good to know; it's a very long time since I watched the Hartnell era. She's still presumably a grandmother or great grandmother, but Fourteen does have a TARDIS to facilitate visits. It could certainly turn into a plot point.
I'm not sure what the BBC's arrangements are with David Tennant regarding further appearances, and the most likely venue continues to be the new show about UNIT. I suspect Fourteen's life in retirement is going to be a fairly minor part of the show(s) going forward, more something that Donna mentions in passing when she's at work than something we see ourselves. I'm also not at all sure what if any part of the UNIT spinoff will be made accessible outside of the UK. I'm pretty sure it isn't part of the deal with Disney. There's already content around the 60th anniversary celebration that's only available in the UK, which is frankly insulting to loyal Whovians in the rest of the world.
As a trio it a was a good anniversary . My favourites were the second and this one RTD. did a pretty good job . Lovely to see Bernard Cribbins at the end of 2 and Mel in this one . I enjoyed your thoughts on the episode . The "baddie " female time Lord was The Rani and Romana was the minder companion installed by the Time Lord's .
It's a complicated old Universe , two David Tennants - counting the one with Rose , three Tardis's counting Claras so there are plenty of spin off opportunities . I wouldn't mind one , but I would hate to see it flogged to death like Star Trek with multiple versions . I did see an intriguing suggestion that David's 14 th Doctor could become the Curator remembering Tom Bakers line about old faces in the 50th .
Oooh, I like the idea that 14 ends up becoming the Curator.
I couldn't quite remember the name The Rani in the moment. I hate when my head withholds things that I know I know, lol.
I am very intrigued and excited to see what RTD has in store for us.
Rumored UNIT Spin-off, Tennant could have a Guest Role there, so can Tate (after all she got a job there now) also, both can always return now in the "Main" Show, if Ncuti or future Doctors need help.
The master WAS in the tooth. Like the ring.
23:17 I don't know why, Donna gave me * *chills* * with her delivery here!!
The gold tooth contains The Master. We don't know who picked it up.
Also they have already confirmed we DONT KNOW who the Boss is. That is something that will come out with 15.
The Toymaker literally could not be the boss. He founf his was into reality because of the superstition The Doctor did at the edge of the universe.
To me "the one that waits" could be Sutekh from Pyramids of Mars probably the most powerful foes of all time.
Sutekh should never come back, Pyramids of Mars was perfect and any return would only diminish him.
Did not expect to be right. LOL
I'm gonna take a shot in the dark and say the boss/he who waits is the Valeyard.
Dr. 10/14 is going to relax and live his life and basically do therapy and become Dr. 15 since he did explain they do therapy out of order and when it's time he will just be 15 that's what I'm getting but I could be wrong
Either Fourteen heals then becomes Fifteen or he becomes the Curator from the 50th and Big Finish.
Presumably "The One who Waits" is also "The Boss" and is gonna be the big bad of Ncutis first or second season
Bigenerational from what I can make out from BTS and dialogue... This is not two doctors, this is still one Doctor. 14 will eventually regenerate completely in to 15 at the point we see him do it here. 15 comes from WAYYYY in to the future in a way, after 14 has lived a normal life.
14 is effectively living a normal-ish life as a means to rehabilitate himself and for once in his existence, rest. When he has done that (maybe a million years like he said to Donna in ep2) he will be ready to go and the time line goes back to the regeneration in to 15.
It's a bit like a meta Crysis but rather than two timelords at the same time, it's one split over two timelines.
Ands what a treat for David, he gets to be the "current" Doctor essentially forever.
It's complicated but it is starting to make sense to make. Takes my brain a bit to catch on sometimes, lol.
But it allows for all sorts of adventures with 14 (comics, audiobooks, etc) without interfering with 15's canon.
@@Shelma32Reactions It also gives UNIT access to a Doctor and TARDIS without needing to be in the main show
@@backtoearth1983 Oooh, good poin!
Yeah that’s my takeaway too, once 14 regenerates later he gets pulled back as 15 to this moment with the Toymaker and completes the loop and it repeats. 14 wasn’t meant to die here so time likely compensated.
we could have The Doctor Donna Adventures :) that would be cool
Hold on is this how 14 is in the doctor who annual against the sycorax because i cant find any other way to fit it in to the timeline thats before the star beast so it must be after this.
Why would they mention Susan. Shes Galifraian. How do we even know if shes alive?? Mentioning her would have been incredibly confusing. Very few people would understand that.
David still has a normal regeneration into Ncuti in the future upon where Ncuti is placed at the events of Giggle
Plot Twist: the one who waits is rory, he ended up being immortal and held a grudge 😂
im wondering if david could be the doctor that eventually becomes the curator
That is an interesting theory that I wouldn't mind.
The one who waits is the one in the mirror!
We have no idea who is the one who waits, or who is the boss. Or the legions who are coming. All of that information is still under Russell T. Davies's hat. He has hinted, though, that some of the gods The Doctor has encountered over the years may be involved.
also Neil has never seen a Single Episode of Doctor Who
Awesome episode
I'm guessing bi-generation is open to interpretation.
My take is 15 has all the remaining regeneration energy, so he's THE Doctor.
14 won't regenerate, and would just disappear instead of regenerating. I guess 15 has some awareness of 14's memories because time stuff! 😀
Although what happens next time Earth has a big alien invasion! 😀
I like the theory that 14 becomes the caretaker,