1968 Camaro Z28 vs 1968 Firebird RAM AIR - PURE STOCK DRAG RACE
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- Опубліковано 15 чер 2020
- 1968 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 302 vs 1968 Pontiac Firebird Ram Air 400 - Pure Stock Muscle Car Drag Race series
Very interesting battle of 1968! The first car is a 1968 Chevy Camaro z28 with a 302 making "290" horsepower. The other car is a 1968 Pontiac Firebird Ram Air with a 400 rated 335 horsepower. The Z28 was obviously made for Trans Am racing, but it does alright on the drag strip as well. You could only get the Z28 with a M21 4-speed manual transmission that year. That Firebird was made for the quarter mile. The Ram Air 400 plus the TH400 auto trans works well... not to mention that combination makes it only 1 of 92! Both very different cars mechanically, but still a great race!
Remember, both cars participate in the Pure Stock Muscle Car Drag Race series, so please check out their website: www.psmcdr.com
Also make sure you find them out on Facebook.
The rules for PSMCDR are listed below:
For 1955 to 1979 musclecars built in United States and Canadian assembly plants with a minimum warranty of 12 months and 12,000 miles.
Any car running faster than 11.50 will be disqualified and will not have a qualifying time recorded.
Any convertible running faster than 13.50 will be disqualified and will not have a qualifying time recorded.
Casting numbers must be correct for the year and horsepower claimed including intake manifold, heads, and exhaust manifolds. Blocks do not have to be "numbers matching," but they must be the correct displacement. Overbores up to .070" are allowed. Stock cranks only.
All Engines - 1.5 extra points allowed over advertised.
The camshaft must be correct for the year, model, and horsepower claimed for the type of lifter (hydraulic or solid). Roller cams NOT allowed.
The valve train must be factory stock for the year, make, and horsepower claimed.
The ignition system must be stock, including the distributor, cap, coil, and wires. Points may be replaced with any electronic conversion that fits under the stock distributor cap.
The carburetor must be correct for the year, make, and horsepower claimed. Jetting and metering changes are permitted. THE CHOKE ASSEMBLY MUST BE IN PLACE AND FUNCTIONAL!
Cast-iron exhaust manifolds are mandatory and must be correct for the year, model, and horsepower claimed. Internal modifications to the exhaust manifolds are NOT allowed. Under no circumstances will headers be allowed, including those cars that came with headers delivered in the trunk. Pipes must be routed as they were originally for the year, make, model, and engine combination. Mufflers must be stock looking in design, that is, oval in shape. No glasspacks or straight pipes allowed unless installed as original equipment. Maximum muffler inlet and outlet size is 2.5 inches. X & H pipes allowed.
The radiator must be correct for the year, make, model, and horsepower claimed. No lightweight, aluminum radiators allowed.
The camshaft must be correct for the year, model, and horsepower claimed for the type of lifter (hydraulic or solid). Roller cams NOT allowed. Duration at .050" lobe lift must be within 1% of factory specs. Lift at the valve must be within 2% of factory specs. Maximum stall limited to 2200 rpm.
The transmission must be correct for year, make, model and engine of the car. 3-speed manuals may be upgraded to the correct 4-speed if originally available.
The rear axle must be of the same manufacturer as the car. Any gear ratio is allowed.
Reproduction tires or radial tires only.You are allowed to run tires one size over stock.
Factory wheels only.
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#musclecar #dragrace #camaro - Авто та транспорт
Interesting match today. Two similar cars, yet still very different!
Indeed!
I need more videos man, there so good.
don't know why they are the same car just diffrient motors
Pontiac all the way for the win!!! and I'm a Mopar guy but my favorite GM division is Pontiac 100%
I'd say the Pontiac had the torque and the Chevrolet had the gear ratio...
I was the owner of a '68 Firebird 400 (325 hp) with a turbo hydramatic and 3.91 super duty positraction back in the day. My 1st runs with the car were mid to high 14's. I modified the quadrajet with different metering rods and drilled holes in the float bowl to enlarge its capacity, made my own cold air system, blocked the heat risers in the intake manifold, installed crower anti pump up lifters and added hooker 4 tube headers. In addition, I modified the distributor curve and power timed the car on a Clayton chassis dyno (hard to find back in '68) which produced 297 RWHP at about 6000 RPM. I also clamped the front half of the rear multileaf springs so to act as traction bars and added rear air shocks using legal 7" wide slicks. All this was legal in E/SA and the car ran a best of 13.07@110.88 at Vacavalley raceway. It never lost an E/SA class race in NorCal during the years that I ran it. Most common competition was the 440 Roadrunner and GTX which I easily beat but I saw the handwriting on the wall when the 340 Dart and Swinger were put in E/SA and retired the car. I have a crippled left leg and have to use my right leg for both gas and brake. If I had a line lock so I could have properly heated the slicks and launched the car I believe it could have broke into the 12's.
Joe Mannix had a '67
Cudos for admitting the 340 was Chrysler's Giant killer and that No small block anything was going to take it on . They were the fastest engines pound per pound made in the late 60's 👍
@@ludedude5228 there's a channel on UA-cam, a guy has two 340 Dusters. His modified track car easily does 11 second passes.
I will never forget the morning I picked up my 68 Camaro convertible RS/SS 396 ,350 HP, on my way home a 68 Z28 came up next to me. I thought to myself..I screwed up ! I shoulda bought the Z28. Two months later I received my draft card. Went from making $500 a month to making $99 a month, car got repossessed, I got repossessed, Uncle Sam got my youth.
TommRamon man that sucks..glad you are able to write about it though
I was just going to say the same thing; at least you came back and can tell the story. Prices of Camaros are starting to come down, so you might be able to find one now for a more reasonable amount.
@@CarsAndZebras thanks, one more thing about the Z cars at the time the Z28's came with a set of long tube headers in the trunk, from the factory. Don't know the brand.
TommRamon - Oh man, that really sucks. At least you didn’t total your car like I did (1970 Mach 1). BTW thanks for your service and glad you are still with us. My brother in law was a chopper pilot in Nam and is a mess with cancers from flying through all the agent orange.
TommRamon - BTW, the headers were actually an option on the Z28 and were typically installed by the dealer. Not positive but I think they were made by Hedman?
In reality, it couldn't have been closer. You couldn't tell, but they were like neck-n'-neck to the very end. Great race and a lot of fun.
I’ll keep my 67 400. While I love both of these 1st gens, there’s something about Pontiac that Ioved until 1980. I personally think the 67 year were the best for both simply due to the vent windows.
Love the vent windows my 68 GTO has them gone by 69
A 68/ 400 Ram Air II 4 speed would have eat that Zs lunch ! WOLF ! The 67 R/A 1 is just a old D port head, with a TH 400 A/T and no big stall converter it's not a fair race
Same
Traded my 64 Olds 442 for a 68 Firebird 350 2sp/auto, the car was a turd ..Then I bought the motor and tranny from a wrecked 69 GTO Judge in 1974. Had the motor rebuilt at Sun Auto (Newark, Ca.) they added an awesome billet crank that another customer couldn't pay for, also new cam, carb .. pretty much a stock 400 ram air II, the car ran 12.80 @116 with a 3.10 rear gear. ..I still have the time slips from Fremont drags..
So glad i found this channel. Seriously, the best car channel on UA-cam. It’s educational and there’s actual drag racing.
Another awesome matchup.....Z28 was basically a detuned race car for the street...4.56 gearing, and the 4 speed might have been the difference makers in this one. Two GM classics!
Those Z28s really need some crazy gears to get rolling
I had a buddy with a ‘69 Z28 back in the early 70’s and the car would do 60 mph in first gear (about 7000 -7500 RPM) with 4.11’s in the back! The close ratio Muncie (M21?) had such a tall first gear which really was terrible for drag racing. The wide ratio Muncie was actually better for drag racing due to its lower first gear. The only way to launch an M21 Z28 effectively (without slipping and smoking the clutch) was with slicks and a LOT of ton. Of course this tended to pretty tough on drivetrain parts. 😳
*LOT of RPM...
@@danmyers9372 Yeah, IIRC...about a 5 to 6 grand launch with slicks and traction bars (remember Lakewood?)...and a good clutch.
The Ram Air 2 package which came out later in 1968 would have beaten this 302 camaro. That would have been a much better match up. Two factory cars that were basically purpose built race cars sold to the public. Even with just this ram air package the firebird was close and the RA2 was a considerable increase in power and lower ET's.
I am more of a 1973/74 455SD guy myself but any fast muscle car is good with me.
F body vs. F body..... LOL.... good race.... I love both of these fantastic cars... I refuse to pick a winner, they're both winners!!! Pffft!!!!!!! 😃👍🤪
I’m giving them both participation trophies
@@CarsAndZebras I always gave the Camaro "the hottest croch" award 😆
General Motors raced a new 1967 396 Camaro against a new 1967 Firebird 400. It was a best of 3 race program. The Pontiac only needed 2 runs to take it. A driver makes all the difference. I have known great drivers who would win switch cars with the loser and win again
Firebird ram air!!!!
Pontiac Guys + Ram Air = boooooinnnnnnngggggg
Originally I would just skip to the race. Now I started watching the content, very informative.
Dude..... You’ve been missing out
The race is the only thing that's worth anything about this channel .
@@garybourke468 first off, that statement doesn’t make any sense. Second off, look at the like to dislike ratio, you stupid old boomer. I bet your family really hates your lack of sense of humor, well, and you in general.
That cross ram setup is downright sexy.
Looks very cool, but tough to work with. I’d love to see some dyno results with the cross ram versus without
I THINK there was also a bigger cam to go with that Cross Ram, thats a LOT of gas for a 302 or for any engine really--That engine is so old and been run so hard who knows what has been done to it like head work, etc. Good shops know a lot more now than just recurving a dist. especially when they do an engine refresh but want to keep it 'looking' original, 13.5 respectable but 456 gears for a street car not much fun, i had 2 cars with those gears=stay off the highway
Wasn’t the cross ram a dealership installed option?
@@zxtenn Yeah, really, and don't even think about 488's.
@@dogbarbill Yeah there's a video about a green 69 Z that was supposedly a cross country drug running car. Forget the exact details on it but I think it had 4.88's! I'm thinking why? I'd be curious to see it's top speed with 3.08's! Got to be 150+
Absolutely two amazing cars
Keep the great videos coming brother, thanks for all you do brother!
Thanks for watching! 👍
The Chevy 302 was a real screamer!😃
the 67 302 was a small journal 283 forged steel crank the 68 and 69 were large journal cranks and used the 3970010 blocks from the 350.
Freedom First, they were all noise and no go in factory stock mode.
Z/28 driver did a nice job coming out of the gate and out gaining the FB on the top end. Little surprised that the FB's torque and automatic didn't get the best of the Z car.
Hard to catch those high revving 302s once they get rolling
The DZ302 with the M21 was definitely not an easy combo to launch with street tires. The M21 has a really tall first gear (could still go 60 in first even with 4.11’s) and the engine was pretty peaky. I drove several of these cars back in the and also was surprised the Z was ahead at the 330’. I totally expected the ‘Bird with the auto and higher torque to get out on the Z and then see the Z out MPH the ‘Bird on the back half. Guessing the ‘Bird May be having to really baby it off the line to keep from smoking the narrow bias ply tires. The crappy tire is a real equalizer in these races.
@@danmyers9372 that’s why I like watching these races. The tire is an equalizer, even a small block can win a lot of races
We had a 289 with 351 Windsor heads on it the regular crankshaft nodule and we would turn that thing at 10 grand I forget the can we ran but she'll is badass had in a 64 Fairlane would have to change the bearings about every three races
@@MidnightinSavannah sounds like the owner of the Firebird is making excuses. And FYI, you can look up the results of that race. Camaro had mechanical issues round one, then they split the next two. If you’re going to cry like a baby about the Firebird, at least look into the issues that the Z 28 also had.
That little 302 is a high revving screamer. Thumb up.
A guy bought one of these with his reenlistment bonus when I was in the service. Great car. He started adding horsepower improvements to it and everything he did made it slower.😊
Love your passion for these cool cars plus your great sense of humour (and brilliant video tech ability). I typically laugh and drool with each vid. Just wanted to say thanks for what you do. 👍
That 30-30 cam is just nasty
For sure, very cool to hear it in person
The 30-30 cam in the DZ302 was bigger than the cams in most factory big blocks. Chevy used the big cam to crutch the heads which were not very good.
music
@@CarsAndZebras
I just watched this cool , 2 month old, video and I am wondering if the Z/28 actually had the 140 off-road cam, instead of the 30/30.
of course it was designed by Zora Duntov.
I was in the passenger seat when we raced a 302 z28. It came passed us about 1000 ft sounded like a blower going by
Your vids are getting so much better. Well done!
Thanks for watching! i’ll keep them coming!
I still have a 68 firebird 400.. but now its got a procharger 🔥
I'd take both cars in a heartbeat, the '67-'68 1st gens are my favorite years of body styles for both.. Never cared for the more popular '69 Camaro/Bird TBH
That Z28 has a lot more lope than I remember stock ones having. 2 great cars, nice match up.
Because it's nowhere near stock...
lope?
@@02autogt BINGO. A factory stock '67-'69 Z/28 Camaro usually ran low 15's. Maybe high 14's with a good tail wind.
@@sergeantmasson3669 On those tires, yes. Put on modern drag radials & knock off that other second.
@@wymple09 You're clueless regarding drag racing and tire types. Also, clueless regarding gaining more HP from a Ford Boss 302 engine without changing any mechanical components inside the engine. Then there's the rear gear ratio options.
Thanks for the Video.... awesome STOCK (mostly) comparison of two of the best Muscle cars in '68. Well done.... loved it!
well thanks for watching! 👍
Loved this race! Thanks again C&Z!
👍
Might be my favorite race so far. Great video! thanks
Thanks for watching!
9:25 for anyone that just wants to see the race
68 bird was my 1st car. Miss that old boy. Injun power forever.
Looks like the 302 started to really pull in 4th. Gotta love it
These cars and I are from the same era, so I remember racing a few from stoplights when they were new. Z-28s did indeed have an angry growl, but they were not much off of the line. Then, in second gear, you would hear this noise behind you...
I did a full body to bare metal resto on my 66 Mustang and every thing was reduced in weight even the glove box door replaced with a lightweight padded wooden one, every bolt trimmed to length, and every bracket and mount, even the clutch and brake pedal arms drilled, lots of fun, got it down to 2650 lbs with fuel as weighed by two amazed 5.0 fox body owners on morosos scales. the 302 in it was 9.5 comp , mild erson cam and a torker 289 on some 351 heads, without posi and on street tires ran a best of 14.4 at 99.4 mph, interesting how the weight is so much more on these. I bet with posi could have kept up .
Im Not a Chevy guy ,But i remember when Z_28 came out in 67' ,Was Very impressed !
Goodday C & Z,
Love that bug eye looking 68 Camaro Z/28. It's funny how every factory version of T/A racing was rated at 290 HP.
Boss 302 = 290hp
Mopar 340 6 pack = 290hp.
Great to see your video again. It was amazing how far down the track the Camaro got too before shifting from
3rd to 4th at least 3/4 track considering the rear end gearing.
It's always a great day when I get a notification from C & Z.
Marina Blue with White stripes beautiful combination.
Nothing wrong with the Poncho.
Great exhaust note.
Your number 1 Fan in Australia
Louis Kats from Melbourne Australia ☺ 👍 ❤
Most people love the 1969 Z28, and sometimes forget about the 1968 model. Definitely a cool, a little car!
@@CarsAndZebras
Sure is.
Chevrolet got it right from the start.
Louis Kats - the M21 Muncie has a very tall first gear. Even with the 4.56 he probably is getting close to the 330’ mark before pulling second. Suspect this guy is shifting at 7000-7500 RPM minimum and possibly closer to 8000.
@@danmyers9372
Thanks for the info Dan,
They didn't call those small block Chevrolet's Mighty Mouse if they didn't live upto there reputation.
8000 rpm WOW.
Such beautiful machinery! Great video!
Loved the vid. In my 67 FB I ran a 14.0 with a 350 Pontiac motor and 3.73 rear. 350P was almost the inverse of the 302 Chevy: smallish bore, long stroke. Fun ride. Someday hopefully soon I will swap in a 400/400 combo on the same 3.73's making estimated 400hp, and see what shakes loose.
Thanks much for the video! Back in the day, I had no trouble with "Z's". My '68 RA III 'bird only went just over 3250 lbs w/me in seat. I did have all RA IV valve train except kept 1.5 rockers, comp. valve job, RA IV oil pump, roller timing chain, w.r. Muncie w/12-bolt 3.55 ltd slip, '69 TA hood, & Camaro off-road chambered exh system. The engine was massive performer below 5500 rpm, but pulled even more strongly from 58-6200.
I normally skip to the race when it comes to these types of videos but I watched urs all the way through
The DZ 302 in the Z28 was basically a slightly de tuned race engine and was a really fun package. Man, they were fun to drive! I had a co worker in the early 70’s who had one (‘69) and we sometimes swapped cars on our Friday night cruise (I had a 1970 Mach 1, 351 auto with 3.91 rear gears). He had added headers, side pipes, a dual point distributor and big N50 rear tires. In the early 70’s these cars were not well known and were real sleepers. It was incredibly fun to tell guys (without lying) that the car only had a 302 and then see their faces after racing them. One night I was driving the Z and raced a guy (don’t remember what he was driving). After explaining that the car only had the 302 we lined up next to each other. He did a little burnout and I followed by starting the burnout in first and then power shifting to second. The rear end hiked up and I went flying by him with the 302 screaming at about 7000 RPM and smoke pouring off both tires. As I backed up I looked over and the jaws of both the other driver and his buds were literally on the ground. It was hilarious. Of course I smoked the guy. The Z had the Hurst shifter so power shifting was a breeze. There is nothing like a hot small block screaming at 7000+ RPM and banging gears!
BTW, the 290 HP rating was a gross rating. With exhaust and accessories attached the HP was probably pretty close. Of course headers really helped unleash the potential of these little screamers. Wouldn’t be surprised if headers added at least 25-30 HP.
BTW my buddies car had the optional 4.11 rear gear. Even with the low 4.11 rear gear the car could hit 60 MPH in first gear due to the extremely high first gear ratio in the M21.
Awesome content! Looks so thrilling my guy! I'm looking to get into cars here soon
You don’t have to have a special car to go to the drag strip. Just bring anything you got!
I always loved the hideaway headlights on the Camaro RS (I think that was the model) but could not figure out why Pontiac didn't do the same thing with the firebird. That would've looked really cool! It sure made the 69 GTO look mean
In 1966, Pontiac wanted General Motors executives to let them have their own sports car based off the Chevrolet Corvette, and name it Banshee. But GM refused to let it happen because it would affect the sales of the Corvette. So instead they had Chevrolet offered the Camaro F-Body to Pontiac and the Firebird was rushed into production.
Execellent! Keep em comin!
👍👍😎
I read that some 283 blocks had enough beef in them to handle a 4" bore. So the 302 Chevy had already been discovered by hot rodders before the Z/28.
Thumbs up for referencing some original road test info. This helps validate just how stock (or not) the present day specimens are. This also adds context and quality to the presentation of this website. However, I wish you would site which issue of what magazine you are quoting.
The lady in the red top couldn't be bothered to look up from her phone during this epic race. Lol! She obviously didn't want to be there.😂😁😂
This brings back memories. I had a 1968 Z/28 this exact color with the Cowl induction Hood, rear spoiler and the 12 Bolt 4.11 Posi rear end in it. But mine was just a little different than stock. The original 302 was blown up and I put a 1970 LT-1 370 H.P 4 Bolt Main 350 from a Corvette in it. I put a bigger Cam in it. Mine had the 4 speed Muncie in it. That Camaro ran a best of 12.98 in the Quarter mile. I really miss that car.
That little 302 was screaming!
I had a 68 400 firebird ram air 4 spd. Same color . I street raced a 68 Z28 that the kid had the back jacked up and all. Most ran their cars like that back then. LOL, in the late 50s to early 60s it was just the opposite. Cinder blocks in the truck and sparkplugs in the tailpipe. LOL, well we line up and he just whines the motor and dumps the clutch and sits there and spins. I'm pretty good at launching and had him off the line by like 3 car lengths. I'm now in 3rd gear and I look and he's coming like a freight train. I know Pontiacs are torque motors so I just put it in 4th and hoped. It gave me just enough to hold him off. He told me that I was just playing with him and he saw the swirl of exhaust coming out just as he caught me. I let him believe that but if he knew how to drive he and didn't jack his car up he would've had me on the launch and I doubt that I would've won. That was a long long time ago. I feel like a kid again for a moment anyway. 😁
P.S. Looks like a lot of Pontiacs there that day ! 👍
Ben Krom - DZ302’s were not easy cars to launch. The close ratio Muncie has an extremely tall first gear and combined with a small ci engine that likes to rev was not easy. I drove and raced a buddies ‘69 Z28 many times back in the day (‘70’s) and shine they were a BLAST to drive it took a lot of seat time to effectively launch one. The driver of the Z in the video did an awesome job. I was shocked when he was ahead of the ‘bird at the 330’ and knew that the race was over,
BTW, my best bud back in the day drove a bone stock ‘69 428 CJ, 4 speed Mach 1. He only lost 2 races to other factory stock cars and both were 400 Firebirds.
@@danmyers9372 I also have launched a Dz 302 and the fact that they aren't torque monsters doesn't help. This kid had the rear like a foot higher in the back and all he did to take off was to side step the clutch at 6500 and lite the tires like he was doing a burnout ! My firebird was just the opposite, so much torque and bias ply tires I was constantly back pedaling till I was in 3rd gear. This guy was coming on strong and I sure wasn't going to match his rpms so I short shifted into 4th and hoped the massive torque would prevail and it did and loaded the engine just enough to create a little extra exhaust and this guy thought I floored it and was just toying with him and never asked for a rematch . LOL, I learned that day to drive by the seat of my pants and not how long you keep it in any gear ! In a pontiac anyway !
Great video with two great cars.
The cars definitely make it interesting!
YOU'RE RIGHT !!!!!! THAT CAMARO SOUNDS PERFECT !!!!! ALMOST AS FANTASTIC AS A SOLID LIFTER BIG BLOCK !!!!!
I USED TO SIT BEHIND MY
L78 SMOKE A CIGARETTE AND JUST LISTEN TO THAT SWEET SOUND !!!!
8/2023: Excellent race and 2 awesome cars. The "silly parts" of this particular video are over the top. I Loved This One. Thanks as always. 👍😂
love the flash camaro !
I'm from that era and my '70 Z-28 (360 HP) barely beat a "69 Firebird 400 race after race and my stock auto Z also beat the mighty "73 SD-455 only because the time that TA got traction my Z was 3 links ahead. Great time of my life.
Great video thanks! I thought the Pontiac might win having an automatic
Thanks for watching!
Holy crap, that 302 was pretty damn potent to outrun an engine nearly 1.5 liters bigger than it. I bet the 30/30 cam has more duration and higher lift than the 400’s cam
I had a 69 Z28 engine in my 55 Bel Air, it was lethal
I forgot to mention... I had 13.5 to 1 pop ups, but that 30 across Duntov drove the final nail into a bunch of stock Goats... LOLOLOLOLOL.... Ouch... Phftttt
The 302 cam sounded pretty lopey on idle which equates to duration so I'm sure you are right on that.
Duntov 30-30 cam specs 485/. 485 ADV Duration (INT/EXH): 254/254 @ . 050" (INT/EXH):
Pontiac 068 cam in this Firebird and used in all the 400/428 4 barrel cars 212/225 @.050. 407 . 407 116 LSA
So yes, the chevy had a rather large by huge cam compared to the daily driver cam in the Firebird... and only netted a couple tenths.
the RA III cam which is a D port headed engine like this one. 224/236@.050 Valve Lift .406 112 LSA
The round port RA IV cam is 232/239@.050 .470 w 1.5 rockers .516 with 1.65 rockers and 112LSA.
A RA II or IV would destroy the DZ 302, and do so with a much smaller cam. Add headers to them and its even worse.
I didn't lose to any sbcs with an 068 cam in a 455 running 8:1 compression D ports with a 2.93 gear, but then again that is a 12 second combo in a 3900lb '70 GTO. Yes, 2.93 gears taller than 3.08s and with a stock converter in the Th400 no less. However under 45mph it would smoke the tires if you whacked the throttle on 275 60 15 radials. It would spin slicks for about 15 feet. Not bad for a garden variety $1800 rebuild I did in 1995 that is still running today after lots of 1500 miles road trips and daily driving.
If you want to show how weak the chevys really are, compare them to 4V Clevelands, especially the 71 BOSS or HO. They had tiny little cams, and a 230@.050 cam turns them into a monster that still has bottom end and pulls like a jet up top.
Fantastic video
Entertaining video, nicely done Sir.
thanks for watching! 👍😎
That car has a set of #96 ram air 2 cylinder heads. The Ram Air 1 engine ran a set of #31 d-port heads. I am familiar with these cars. I own one of the 92 ram air auto cars. Cool video and thanks for posting.
Found out when we got home after thrashing to just get this engine in days before race that secondaries were only opening about 30%. Car has since ran mid 12’s @111 in high 80 temps!
In 1969 the crossram 2×4 Holley's set up came in the trunk. Talk about awesome. That setup put out 600 ponies at 7000 RPM
Talking about the 302 of course. The Pontiac 400 Ram Air is an awesome badass engine which sounds the best out of any V8 when revving.
Very interesting duel. I prefer a Pontiac but Z28 Camaro is really impressive. Powerful and super handling car!
Great break down of the cars pre race. I had a hard time picking a winner. I was pulling for the Z28 cause my best friend had one all those years ago.
Great presentation. I really just wanted to see who won, but you kept me interested and prevented me from fast forwarding right to the race at the end.
Dude, you're like a history teacher & stuff
But without the job security and summer vacation
Those little high revving Chevy small blocks were really awesome and the 1st generation Camaros were the sexiest cars ever. 😎
The Firebird has #96 heads. That's a round port RA II head!
what a great, classic matchup
Pontiac!
Funny stuff today! This was better than a Monty Python expose on F-bodies.
Fun Fact... When you bought a Z-28 with the Cross-Ram option, the intake came separate and was in the Trunk. So you basically had two intakes, one for the street and one for the strip. Better tires and I think both these cars would have made it into the high twelves.
I COULD NOT BELIEVE IT WHEN THIS VID WAS IN MY SUGGESTIONS! It is like WTF!! I actually owned a 69 Z/28 slightly warmed over and a 68 Firebird with a RAIII 400..... All being equal, if the cars are set up right there is no replacement for displacement.
Love me those first gen Z/28s!!
I love that green, I'll paint my firebird that color some day
I bought a brand new 1969 Z28 for $3,000 otd. Power steering was an option, not standard. No power steering for me. I installed 4:10 gears in mine. The '69s had a Hurst shifter. Problem was the rubber bushings. I used steel bushings to get rid of the rubbery feel. Wish I still had it.
That was a great friggin matchup. I’m sure Chevy guys would have some to add also but I feel like that pontiac should have been mph’n around 102-103 but who knows weather etc and I like pontiac. Buuut mad respect always for the 302. Super cool engine and glad you pointed out the cross ram because so many people will tell me it never happened 🤣 sometimes those ole guys think since they were alive then they saw it all 😂😂 I am old enough to come up on magazines and still have them so..... I’m a hoarder I guess? lol ✌🏼
Wow that's more then the 70 LT1 350 unless that was underrated too... I'd love to own a 69 Z28 with the RS package... one of the greatest looking muscle cars ever !!!
Omg that camaro sounds amazing all bout high reving small block in the quarter. I love them both. But i gotta say i want the Z28
Revs for power is no bargain on the street & running the proper gear ratio for the strip is crazy for highway use. In this area several people found this out the hard way.
Love your videos.
Notice that the Hollies on the dual carb engine were double pumpers. This was about 3 years ahead of their release to the general public. I saw one on the single carb Z28 also. Funny how searches on the internet say it was a vacuum secondary......
In stock eliminator the Z/28 you show was an E or F stock car. The Firebird RA2 was a B stock car. The Firebird 400 non-RA was an E or F stock car. Shows how fast the Z/28 really was.
Love both of these cars and Pontiac was always my favorite GM division but if I had to pick one of these cars it would be the Z28. Love those Chevy 302 small blocks. I'm a Mopar guy but Chevy always built the best small blocks in my opinion... the 283/327 fuelies, the 327 cube L79, the DZ 302, and the 350 cube LT1 just to name a few but there's many other good ones
i had one of the 7199, bronze with black racing stripes.
Those 302s are nasty little engines 💪
5.0L isn't small. It's more like medium size.
At 23 and in the Navy, I Bought my Z on 31/AUG76, $1900, heater delete Hawaii car, 13.05 @ 115 7,500 rpm’s and still pullin, will start restoration soon has 70,000 mi, NOT FOR SALE!
HA, I thought it was gonna be an exact tie (irony of the video) ! I was wrong, but not by much ! Sweet !
A old family friend actually had a 67 z28 about 15 years ago, he found it as completely beat old dirt track car. He never did restore it sadly, bc he passed away shortly after. Can’t imagine turning a 67 z28 into a dirt car.
As much as I want to say Z28 FTW, the combo of TH400 & 4:11's is gonna do it.
Have a 69 Z in the garage with the cross ram. Great video. Keep em coming!
I didn’t expect that 🤪. I had a 2 Nd gen T/A 78 also 77 fire chicken w a horrible 3.8 v 6. That was swapped out to a 350 !
Came for the drag race....got an automotive history lesson.
That's pretty impressive for an old school pushrod 5 liter.
We own 3 Firebirds, a '67 and two '68's one of which is a numbers matching block and muncie stamped VIN's with 3.23 gears. The other '68 is a custom that is still getting built. My dad drag raced when I was a kid, cut my teeth on his trophies in fact so as they say it is in my blood.
Fast shifter in the Z/28, nice too see an SB go against a BB motor like that, superb cars !
I love the way you could hear that 302 open up. Chevy really did that 1 right. Steel crank, forged pistons, shot peened rods, 4 bolt mains, high capacity oil pump. windage tray to stop oil aeration, special cam and valve springs, heat treated pushrods, hd rockers, on and on.. I read that the reason Chevy rated it at just 290 HP was because it's actual power would embarrass an SS 396, and the thinking was cubes equals more power and more bragging rights, thusly more sales. Ford and Chrysler did the same thing with their 302 Boss and 340 6bbl respectively, on purpose as well, trying to side step insurance company rates while making larger engines in their lineups seem more powerful.. They weren't.
I like the badass BLUE GSX!
Bill jenkins back in the 60s proved that running a hipo small block with relatively the same specs as a big block, you could run faster or as fast just because you took about 200lbs off the nose of the car, and you could stay higher in the rpms for longer, i believe that every car he ran during this time was small block built to the same specs as big block cars for the 1960s super stocker class
Remember that one time he showed a car race that other car? Good times
I’ve been know to do that from time to time
My grandfather built a 48 Willy’s jeep with a 68 cross ram z28 302 engine
Great cars wish they would have run two more times that was a close race.
Love my 68 firebird with the 350