Preterism and 2 Peter 3
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- As a follow-up to his Reformed Academy course, Exploring 2 Peter: The Promise and the Path, Dan Ragusa joins Camden Bucey and Ryan Noha to discuss preterist views of 2 Peter 3 concerning the promise of new heavens and a new earth. After establishing the future orientation of the epistle, Dan provides a sketch of the history of preterist interpretations beginning with John Owen’s “Oriental” reading, noting the influence of Joseph Mede in the context of seventeenth-century Puritanism. He then turns his attention to modern-day exegesis of this chapter from leading partial preterists, exemplified by Peter Leithart’s commentary, The Promise of His Appearing: An Exposition of 2 Peter. Dan responds to Leithart’s “knock down arguments” by applying the eschatological pressure of the letter as a whole, all while directing listeners to the consummate, cosmic hope of the eternal kingdom that cannot be reduced to passing of the old covenant order in 70AD.
00:00:07 Introduction
00:03:21 Updates about Reformed Forum
00:09:51 Preterism and 2 Peter 3
00:19:30 Our Blessed Hope
00:22:21 Preterist Interpretations of 2 Peter 3
00:31:22 Joseph Meade, John Owen, and the "Oriental Reading"
00:43:03 John Owen's Other Interpretation of 2 Peter 3
00:47:46 Peter Leithart's View
00:56:54 Vos's Definition of Eschatology
01:07:32 The Imminent Language about Christ's Return
01:17:11 Conclusion
This is Christ the Center episode 794 (www.reformedfo...)
Thank you, brothers. This was very helpful. As a partial preterist, I have leaned toward viewing 2 Peter 3, in conjunction with Romans 8, as the future death and resurrection of Creation.
Also, I truly appreciate your collective, polemical posture. You are both kind and uncompromising.
An additional text pertaining to this discussion is Colossians 1. The efficacy of Christ's atonement and function as Redeemer entails the reconciliation and consummation of all Creation in him. Therefore, the New Heavens and New Earth will not be of a distinct essence from this present Creation, but rather a resurrected form of the same essence.
@@Eric_Lichtenberg
PRETERISTS take away from the words of the book of prophecy.
Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
@@qwerty-so6ml If you are referring to those who suggest Christ has already completed His Parousia, I agree. I would go so far as saying they are heretics because their views necessitate the cessation of redemption for the Lost.
@@Eric_Lichtenberg
PRETERISTS are taking away from the worst horror the world will see (Matthew 24:21), when the earth shakes to and fro like a drunkard (Isaiah 24:20), as the pit is opened (Revelation 9:2) and the locusts are released (Joel 2:25).
John received the book of Revelation.
Yet, he was told that he would be coming back at the end.
Revelation 10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy AGAIN before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.
That revelation (given within the past 2 decades):
This is very helpful discussion. I'm a amil partial-preterist about Mat. 23-25 and Rev., but would agree that 2 Peter 3 is future. But it is a difficult call for me. The reference to the last days (Acts 2:17, 2 Tim. 3:1, Mat. 24:12-13) and the thief coming (Mat. 24:43-44, 1 Thess. 5:2) tend in my mind towards A.D. 66-70 and the last days of the age of the second temple and Mosaic order (Heb. 1:2, 8:13). But as Dan points out, the language of "all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation" and "the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved" point in the other direction toward the restoration of all things spoken by the prophets (Acts 3:21).
The question is, which of these eschatological phrases have a wider range than the others. It seems to me that "last days" and "thief coming" have a broader range of meaning than the other phrases. Even if one holds, as I do, that many references to last days are to the last days of the Mosaic age, there can still be a last days reference to the current millennial/gospel age. The key in these views is to be especially sensative to the context. Simply taking phrases and assuming they have only one reference or use and ignoring the historical framing of the use is the central problem in eschatology (this is especially true for παρουσία and ἔρχομαι).
I praise God for Gary, our brother in Christ. A gift to the church and a man of integrity.
I was a hyper-preterist for 7 years. We loved to partially quote John Owen on this text. Appreciate the background and criticisms of the 'preterist' take on this at the end.
Very helpful....Thank you for all your hard work!
Preterists who DENY the Conflagration (and that 2 Pet. 3 teaches it) will often cite John Owen's sermons on it.
However, it's important to note that Owen did NOT deny the Conflagration in 2 Pet. 3; he only focused on Sanctification in the Christian Life in light of the text.
Conflagration: an extensive fire which destroys a great deal of land or property.
See Jonathan Edwards' view of 2 Pet. 3.
See Dr. John Gill's exposition on 2 Pet 3, for some examples of men who knew this text was talking about the "liquefaction by fire" (as Gill calls it).
See also John Calvin's words about 2 Pet. 3.
These men knew it was talking about the Eschatological Conflagration.
*Soli Deo Gloria*
Weird technological issues seems to be a common theme. God has blessed us greatly with means to reach so many with His Gospel. But as with all other things in this fallen world, technology is under the curse as well. And thus James' encouragement rings here as well. So, count it all joy when your router fails to connect, or when your hard drive crashes, or when your tablet freezes, or when Windows does a blue screen, or when any number of other techno-gremlin events occur. Count it all joy.
2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
Galatians 4
3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world. 4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. 6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, "Abba, Father!" 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
8 But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods. 9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.
"element" in Hebrew literature often referred to the actual component parts of the Hebrew alphabet. In this case "elements" is euphemistic language to refer to the law as it was the most important text written in Hebrew that all Hebrews would have learned to read and write by.
@@nanthilrodriguez WHAT ELEMENTS SHALL BURN ?
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
II Peter 3:10 NKJV
Many will have you to believe the "elements" mentioned here are the elements of the Periodic Table. You know...zinc , iron, gold , etc..
The problem with that theory , is that the Periodic Table was not until 1869!!
Peter had no clue about those "elements"!!
Peter did know about the elemental principles of the law,and the temple courts.
The Greek word used here is "stoicheia"
It is also the same word translated "basic principles" here...
Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
Colossians 2:8 NKJV
This was the practices of the law. They ruled the "world" of that age.
Paul speaks of them here....
Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the👉 elements 👈of the world. But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
Galatians 4:3 - 5 NKJV
Paul is clearly speaking about those turning back to the law. This is what Paul and all the disciples had to deal with in their ministry.
The Judaizers (antichrists) who were constantly coming behind them , and trying to get believers to turn from Christ and back to the law.
Paul mentions these "elements" again...
But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly 👉 elements👈, to which you desire again to be in bondage?
Galatians 4:9 NKJV
Christ came to deliver them from the bondage of these "elements".
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 8:2 NKJV
This process would not be complete until the temple and Jerusalem fell. This would be the sign that Jesus had returned.
And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.” Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
Matthew 24:2 - 3 NKJV
These are two questions about the same event. They are NOT questions about separate events as many would mislead you to believe!!
History records when the temple and Jerusalem were destroyed in AD70. There are volumes up on volumes written on the events. It is no secret !!
The very temple that Jesus told His disciples that would be destroyed , was destroyed in AD70.
When the fires were set , and the temple and the city was burnt to the ground , all the "elements" burnt with them.
There has been no temple system since. All the elemental practices of animal sacrifices, ritual washings, etc .... melted with fervent heat and were destroyed forever!!
This is what Peter was speaking about , and had absolutely nothing to do with the planet earth being destroyed!!
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”
Luke 17:20 - 21 NKJV
@@mattrhoden2401
PRETERISTS take away from the words of the book of prophecy.
Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
@@qwerty-so6ml ok...which one's ?...what are you referring to exactly ?
@@craigrodger3628
PRETERISTS, HISTORISTS are taking away from the worst horror the world will see (Matthew 24:21), when the earth shakes to and fro like a drunkard (Isaiah 24:20), as the pit is opened (Revelation 9:2) and the locusts are released (Joel 2:25).
John received the book of Revelation.
Yet, he was told that he would be coming back at the end.
Revelation 10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy AGAIN before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.
That revelation (given within the past 2 decades):
2 peter 3
Is the coming judgement to apostate israel in AD 70 not the final return of Christ at the last day
I believe this also but ''the last day'' represent the last days of the law that end with the destruction of the temple. These last days may not only be connected to 70 ad but also of the true end of this world at the Omega (the end)
❤ Gary Demar
"When the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?"
" That day shall not come except the apostasy comes and the man of sin be revealed.."
Two verses that refute Demars escatology.
@@Rbl7132 I don't know much eschatology, but I know Bahnsen includes a great apostasy after a time of a mostly Christian world and before the second coming and Demar and Bahnsen seem to be similar on most things.
@@Rbl7132 So, I assume you believe that there will be absolutely no faith on Earth when Christ comes?
I just finished an article that’s claiming Demar has gone Hyper Preterist
@@jgeph2.4 when I listen to Demars, it does not ring to my spiritual ears.... the idea that second Thessalonians chapter 2..., Matthew 24:29-31 and 1st Thessalonians 4:16 and 17 have already passed is absolutely ludicrous in my mind. And they do all of this simply to defend that one verse "this generation"...they do it at the expense of mountains of Scripture.
57:29 - Vos' definition of Eschatology (ignoring his usage of the future tense "will") is not bad. But it does obviously cause the speaker to make the (imo, disingenuous) exclusion of preterism from eschatology.
59:56 - Here the speaker has it all upside down. Mainly because it seems he views eternity as something that has a beginning, eternity as something that must start in the future. Peter is in fact saying: "Look the Messiah has come, eternity has broken into time!" It is the speaker who, not seeing any change, takes the place of the scoffer and says: "Where is the sign of his coming, there must be a second coming, he must come again because I see no change." Peter then says that this world and heavens are kept for fire. The same Peter, who, when fire appeared above the heads of the faithful quoted Joel in saying this is the day of the Lord. To SEE the Kingdom of God you must be born of the Spirit. Eternity is now.
In preterism, like 90% of the prophecies of the end times are already finished, and bad interpreted. How is that eschatology? All that's left in their minds is the second coming, and that's it. The antichrist, the beast, the tribulation, all past events.
Why do you even consider a Jesuit doctrine that was created with the sole purpose of deflecting all criticism against the papacy of being the antichrist/man of sin.
Is the biggest waste of time in christian studies. Only a moron would consider it plausible after reading it once and knowing where it comes from. Same for futurism, another Jesuit doctrine invented also for the exact same purpose. Another waste of time. The man of sin was revealed the moment the Roman emperor destroyed the temple and the city in 70ad, and was later rebranded as the office of the papacy centuries later. The papacy is the same as the Roman emperors, commiting the same blasphemy of calling themselves gods on earth, sitting in the temple of God claiming to be God. The reformers where 100% right, and 99% of Christendom right now don't give them the credit they deserve and dismiss their warnings. Fools.
Off topic, personal opinion. Take it as you will. Me and I'm sure others like me also would appreciate if you used real bible quotes and not paraphrase.
Is there a reply to my comment?
Read this:
• before some of them had finished going through the cities of Israel he promised to return (Mat 10:23)
• before some of them had tasted death he promised to return (Mat 16:27-28)
• while some of the Jewish leaders were still alive he promised to return (Mat 26:64)
• in the generation of those living in the first century he promised to return (Luke 21:22, 32)
• soon/shortly/time is near he promised to return (Revelation 1:1-3; 22:6-20)
Some questions:
First; Do you still claim to believe your bible?
Second; Then how do you, claiming to believe your bible, have anything in your bible that refutes what Jesus actually said?
Heck let's go with a third; What evidence do you have to promote your claim that Jesus has not returned yet?
And aren't you either claiming that Jesus actually lied, or simply did not know what He was talking about? How does it make you feel that YOU, claiming to believe your bible, have NOTHING to base that belief on?
Think about this.
The preaching is of primary importance, so Jesus emphasizes the need for discretion so as to remain free to carry out the work. “When they persecute you in one city, flee to another,” he says, “for truly I say to you, You will by no means complete the circuit of the cities of Israel until the Son of man arrives.”
It is true that Jesus gave this instruction, warning, and encouragement to his 12 apostles, but it was also meant for those who would share in the worldwide preaching after his death and resurrection. This is shown by the fact that he said his disciples would be ‘hated by all people,’ not just by the Israelites to whom the apostles were sent to preach.
Further, the apostles evidently were not haled before governors and kings when Jesus sent them out on their short preaching campaign. Moreover, believers were not then delivered up to death by family members.
So when saying that his disciples would not complete their circuit of preaching “until the Son of man arrives,” Jesus was prophetically telling us that his disciples would not complete the circuit of the entire inhabited earth with the preaching about God’s established Kingdom IN THE "LAST DAYS" before the glorified King Jesus Christ would arrive as Jehovah’s executional officer at Armageddon.
@@djparsons7363 By the time Paul wrote his letter to the Colosians he said; 1Col 1:23 "provided that you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which has been preached to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister." The gospel of the kingdom was already preached throughout the world before the canon was closed by the mouth of Paul!
@@makarov138 It was preached in the KNOWN world at that time, but there has been a preaching on a far greater world wide scale all through the 20th century up to the present. Jesus said at Matt 24:14. "And this GOOD NEWS OF THE KINGDOM WILL BE PREACHED IN ALL THE INHABITED EARTH FOR A WITNESS TO ALL THE NATIONS, AND THEN THE END WILL COME.
Obviously, Jesus spoke of a work that was different than what Paul referred to because the end has not come and the Son of Man has not yet arrived.
@@djparsons7363 Everything that Jesus said was going to happen, including MT 23:14, was chained in timing to the destruction of that temple in Jerusalem! And absolutely nothing having to do with anything occurring 2000 years in the future! It ALL was to happen IN THAT GENERATION! Jesus said so! In MT 23 Jesus said it would happen in that generation. And in MT 24 He again emphasized that it all would come IN THAT GENERATION. The one when the temple was destroyed, which history records was in 70AD.
@@makarov138 There was an initial fulfillment of Matt. 24 in 70 CE when the Jews were told to flee to the mountains when they saw Jerusalem surrounded by the Romans. But there is the major fulfillment in these last days also.
Matt. 24:14 was NOT fulfilled in the first century, Jesus said the Gospel of the Kingdom would be preached in ALL the earth to all the nations, that is being done today.
Also, verse 7 says “for NATION WILL RISE AGAINST NATION AND KINGDOM AGAINST KINGDOM, and there will be FOOD SHORTAGES and EARTHQUAKES in one place after another.
That is talking about world wars on a large scale, that didn't happen in the first century.
Verse 21 speaks of the great tribulation which has yet to occur so, no, that was not all fulfilled in 70 CE. There is no clear understanding of what Jesus meant by 'this generation' because the prophecy extends down to the present day.
"Terminating it there in the destruction of 70 AD doesn't satisfy the mind or the heart."
So your subjective emotions determine the interpretation?
Sounds like a pretty flawed approach.
Maybe we are still future oriented, living in the kingdom, who's growth has no end, and we are to minister to as many as we can. Why is your faith that Jesus is the Son of God, who died in sacrifice for our sins, who rose on the third day, incumbent upon a future destruction? Shouldn't that be true with or without (present day) future destruction?
Maybe it isn't about US. Maybe its about CHRIST
Does anyone else take issue with Vos' definition of Eschatology?
Grew up in SBC but now a PP. But for 2 Peter 2:3, it really really exposes FP in verse 13: “….. where righteousness will dwell.” We are not dwelling in righteousness.
re 2 Pet 3:13 - You are if you are in Christ, since it is HIS righteousness in which we dwell - not our own. Therefore the righteousness in which we dwell is God in us...
@@robinq5511 Serious question here as I have never had a conversation with a FP. What happens when someone dies? Heaven ? Hell?
@@DISP-CEPTED See John 11:25-26🧡 In the generation that that was coming to an end in 70AD prior to the sign of Jesus coming in the clouds of judgment, the dead went to Sheol. I believe the dead were raised at that sign event. That does not apply to us today who do not face the 2nd death. So my answer is Heaven for believers, else the lake of fire for those who are not.
@@robinq5511 so there is still judgment then?
@@DISP-CEPTED For who? Only those who are in Christ have been given eternal life. There is no afterlife for anyone else. Which is why we share the gospel with the world. It is God's Word that judges the hearts of men in this life.
Around the 1hr mark when your talking about the scoffers thinking that there will be no Devine intervention, I would want to mention that Peter is drawing on Old Testament judgements of God on Israel.
Think specifically of Zephaniah 1:12
i have to be honest with you, the more i look at the speech and behavior of futurists, the more concerning they are and the more i realize the great great harm they have been doing
I don't know what to say. I'm thinking I am not scholarly enough to answer educated and trained Christians (yes you are my brothers in Christ - no doubt in my heart and mind) such as yourselves. However, ....we now have eternal life. The Kingdom to come was Christ's eternal Kingdom as opposed to the old covenant type and shadow 'of this world - world of the Jews, which these diaspora Jewish Christians (audience relevance primarily - Sure there is much application for us today) were anticipating. I'm happy to meet the Lord when I die, to face whatever comes with that event. I'm even happy to have the Lord pay us a visit in a fashion consistent with the traditional presupposition. However, I do not see where the future second coming of our Lord in bodily form and in judgement to raise the dead etc. is clearly set-out in scripture as our future. There is still much debate (as this video admits due to questions that came in or perhaps conversations around the current Demar letter?. One would think or expect more treatment by the Apostles and Prophets to such a terminus event. We are mostly given the WCF, Belgic C. Creeds and the sweet consistency of history that the Lord would not leave His Church without such surety. ??When us Christians die and go to be with the Lord, are we in the eternal state? Or do we have to wait for perhaps, thousands of years hence (according to some postmills - partial preterist mostly I'm assuming, especially those who propose a theonomic framework), and somehow have a change through the resurrection of the dead and final judgement to finally enter the 'already and not yet, inaugurated but not consummate, double fulfillment eternal state of the Eternal Kingdom. Love you brothers, but I am out here tracking with this debate vis a vis Letter and website directed to Gary Demar etc. Christian leadership say I am a heretic and some say damnable heretic. Not fun and not easy to quell / go against my conscience just to stay in fellowship with those I dearly love and trust belong to the Lord - I'm not totally (so don't stress too much about this) alone as I have a few friends and a Pastor who loves me but wishes I would agree with our long held tradition and whatever scripture we can use to show that. Peter and the Apostles preached the nearness and the relief about to come from day one after Pentecost. The Jews who were trying to stamp out the Christian Church and Her preaching of the Gospel absolutely knew about the referenced promise(s) to judgement (Acts 17 etc.) and were the scoffers. Most would be scoffers in our current world have little to no developed frame work of religion -the Christian Religion, and do not say 'where is the promise of His coming (excepting and because of those who are waiting for the rebuilding of the Temple again and the sacrificing of red heffers etc.). The issue today is with atheism and Darwinism and all manner of idols. Too much already. anyways, thanks for bringing your work to this discussion and I hope the Lord will bring all of us as the Body of Christ more light and unity. Love brother David, up here in snowy but melting Canada.
Philosophy has made an utter mess of pure Scriptural teachings, all these fancy terms only serve to muddy the waters, so to speak.
The Bible is brilliantly written so that even people with no education can correctly understand its meaning. The Pharisees scoffed at the Apostles saying they were "unlettered and ordinary" but they understood what Jesus spoke and the Pharisees were not given insight because they were unworthy.
Only with the help of God's Holy Spirit can anyone understand the Scriptures accurately and a person has to sincerely search for truth and have something, some quality that God approves of. If they have a righteous heart He will show them accurate knowledge then its up to them what they do with it.
Christendom is filled with people without answers, preachers who teach lies, and everyone seemingly has a different opinion and no solid understanding. I thank God that I have found the truth.
Hello, brother, I would encourage you to look above at my reply to Phildufour (and other comments). Consider the long period time identified as the millennium and the two resurrections. There are lots of reasons to see that Israel and many more gentiles must be saved, there is a future judgment, general resurrection and Christ's physical return. John 11:24-25 and I Cor. 15:24, 51-58, both of which speak of the last day and the last trumpet, and correspond to the second general resurrection in Rev. 20:12-13.
Given that Satan was bound after the fall of Jerusalem, it follows that we are in the millennium and that the general (second) resurrection is yet future. We are in the inaugurated new heavens and earth (a) of the new covenant (Isa. 65:15-20), but death has not yet been conquered (see v. 20, our life expectancy will continue to grow as our technology progresses in this age). When Christ comes to deliver up this growing kingdom to the Father, then death shall die, and the new heaven and earth (b) will be consummated in their fullness and without corruption (compare Rev. 21:4 and 1 Cor. 15:52-53).
Notice that In Rev. 21 is completed form of Isa. 60:4-9 where the nations are coming into the new Jerusalem. In Rev. 21:25-27, the time of salvation is complete for the gates of the city are open, but the unsaved can never enter. Rather, the portion of the unsaved is the second death. There is no more sea (21:1), because the nations (the sea) have been resurrected and all have been judged (20:13-14, Rev. 17:15). It is done because Christ's work is complete and certain, but he is still continuing to make all things new (Rev. 21:5-6). He is not finished yet. Blessings as you continue to study. I would encourage you not to break fellowship, but to keep an open mind. Ask the Lord for widsom and give it time.
@@jrhemmerich Wow! Where do you get all that incorrect information? There is nothing you have posted that is accurate!
Satan was NOT bound after the fall of Jerusalem, John prophesied that would happen far in the future and he wrote Revelation 26 years AFTER Jerusalem fell, you are WAY off.
You are misleading people with false teachings and God does not overlook false preachers.
@@djparsons7363 Ah! You are a premil futurist! Correct? Now your posts make sense…your argument against the destruction of the physical earth made you sound like an odd sort of full preterist. I thought you were the false/mistaken teacher ;).
I understand you might find the binding of Satan to be error. But that is a very traditional understanding among Amillennialists. It doesn’t mean that Satan is not active through other spirits, but simply that he can’t blind the nations from the Gospel.
As far as the dating of Revelation. The only reason half the scholars think it was written in the 90s (the other half think it was written AD 64-68) is Irenaeus statement that “it/he was seen recently, in the time of Domitian.” Irenaeus goes on to say that if John had wanted us to know the name of the number of the beast he would have told us. The question is, did Irenaeus mean the the vision was seen in Domitian’s day or that John was seen? The text is ambiguous. Based upon the information sought, the identity of the number of the name, it makes more sense that it was John who was seen late, so as to give an interpretation, not that this was when the vision was seen. Other writings of history indicate that John was exiled during the “tyrant” Nero’s persecutions, which would have occurred between June of AD 64 with the burning of Rome, and Nero’s death in June of AD 68. So likely Rev was written around A.D. 65, after the persecutions started. Which is why John writes as a fellow “partner of the tribulation and kingdom” (Rev. 1:7).
The internal dating of the book is early and fits Jerusalem’s destruction and the transition to the new covenant because: (1) the Temple is still standing so as to be measured for judgment; (2) the book is written after 5 of the 7 kings/emperors of Rome had fallen. Nero is the 6th from Julius, so Rev. 17:10 dates the book to before Jerusalem fell; (3) the great city is defined in Rev 11:8 as Jerusalem, and it is the city that is destroyed in Rev. 14:20, 16:19. And Jerusalem was in fact destroyed; (4) the 42 months of the beast Nero’s power and persecution lasted from late AD 64 to June of 68 when he died and the empire “was not,” but after a year and the fall of the three emperors who “reigned but a short time and went to destruction” (Rev. 17:10-11), the beast came again under Vespasian’s rule; (5) the five months of the 5th trumpet (Rev 9:5) describes a siege where the inhabitants are tormented and wish to die but are not killed. Jerusalem was sieged by the Roman’s for five month from Nisan (may/April) to Ab (Aug./Sep) of AD 70; (6) the pit representing the wars destruction is opened in Rev. 9:2, and it is closed over Satan in Rev 20:1-3 at the war’s end. Therefore, Satan is bound which is why we among the gentiles have heard and believed.
(7) most of the events in Rev take place a short/soon time from when the vision is given and unlike Daniel, the vision is not sealed up, for the time is at hand (Rev. 1:1, 1:3, 22:6, 7, 10); (8) To the church at Perganum he writes “Therefore repent. If not, I will come to you soon and war against them with the sword of my mouth.” (Rev 2:16). He said this repeatedly to the first century churchs; (9) In Rev. 19:11, 15 Christ rides forth in the heavens (it does not say that he comes to earth) to “judge and make war in righteousness.” And he treads the winepress, the city of Jerusalem (Rev 14:20, 11:8). This makes the most sense in a context of the war in AD 66-70, especially the siege at Jerusalem (as the Roman army gathered in the valley of Har-Megiddo before they battled at Jerusalem, Rev 16:16).
Note that most of the things are soon, but that the millennium is a long time (a period, after the things which “are” to immediately take place, Rev. 1:19), and then the new heavens and earth (which is Christ’s heavenly rule) comes to earth. As you say, it need not be a destruction of the elements, but a reformation it shall be, for at least human death shall be no more.
So, I understand if this is not your tradition, it was not the one I started with either, but it seems to me that scripture fits this event as well as any predicted in the Bible.
If this perspective is true, consider the great encouragement to our faith. Jesus promised a coming in judgment to that generation and an end to the sacrificial order of the Temple and it happened after being in place for over 1200 years or more. How much more shall he fulfill his promised salvation among the nations now, and finally his glorious return?
That is what I believe. I do pray that it is not error. I think you would agree that it’s not ALL error.
@@jrhemmerich There is a LOT of error in your post. I'm not whatever fancy name you come up with, that's all useless branding as far as I'm concerned. I have a good understanding of Scripture without all the philosophical terminology that is unnecessary.
The 5 Kings of Revelation 17:10 have nothing to do with the Roman emperors, those "Kings" are Governments, World Powers through history who have had oppressive dealings with God's people. The five that have fallen are Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece. The one that "is" was the one ruling when John wrote Revelation, Rome.
The seventh and final World Power would be ruling now in these "last days", namely the alliance of United States and Great Britain. Everything John wrote in Revelation has its fulfillment in our day. I would have to write a book to correct all the inaccuracies but I felt like something should be said whether you agree or not, someone may be looking for truth, not confusion.
You people have no proper understanding of New Heavens and New Earth.
Peter uses the term “earth” in a figurative sense, referring to human society-in this case wicked human society. Note that Peter draws a parallel with the Flood of Noah’s day. (2 Peter 3:5, 6) On that occasion, ONLY WICKED MANKIND WAS DESTROYED; the earth itself and righteous Noah and his family survived.
By the same token, Peter’s use of “heavens” would also be symbolic. In this case, "HEAVENS" REFERS TO HUMAN RULERSHIP over the ungodly. Thus, the incorrigibly wicked will be gone, as will all wicked governments, which will be dissolved and replaced by God’s heavenly rule, or Kingdom.-Daniel 2:44.
So, will planet earth come to its end? No. What will end is the symbolic earth, or wicked human society. The earth itself and the future godly human society will last forever.-Proverbs 2:21, 22.
God has promised the literal Heaven and earth will never be destroyed.
(Ecclesiastes 1:4) A generation is going, and a generation is coming, BUT THE EARTH REMAINS FOREVER.
(Psalm 78:69) HE MADE HIS SANCTUARY AS ENDURING AS THE HEAVENS, LIKE THE EARTH THAT HE HAS ESTABLISHED FOREVER.
Full Preterism is the answer all prophecy has been fulfilled
No, it isn't.
@@paulbrennan4163 😭
@@SELAHPAUSE Don't cry.. just explain to me how you deal with the fact that scripture indicates that there is a future hope for Israel.
According to jesus it's all fulfilled. And his return was in 66 ad.
@@stereotype5868 Where exactly did Jesus say that?
Is it possible that 70AD is the fulfillment of Christ's prophecy in Mt 23-24:34 and that this becomes the prototype for the "Day of the Lord" to come at the end of the church age. Ps 110 is the most quoted Psalm in the New Covenant, death is the final enemy and it has been defeated in and by Christ,by faith we believe and hope for the full revelation of this truth.. a complete or full preter take seems to me somewhat premature. Consummating during the engagement is wrong, we must wait till after the wedding.. THANKS FOR YOUR HELP WITH THIS DOCTRINE.
Hi George, are you referring to a double fulfillment? I.e a partial fulfillment in 70 AD and then a complete fulfillment in the future? If so I can point out some strong biblical support that it actually is. Get back to me if you are interested.
This generation shall not pass until all these things be fulfilled.
@@trobace Jesus uses the term "this generation" several times in Matthew but never in reference to any lifespan. What he _always_ did on the other hand was use it to refer to the scribes and Pharisees, pointing out the _kind_ of generation they were. He called them_ a "wicked and adulterous generation", an "unbelieving and perverse generation" and so on. So was their wickedness confined to the people living in Jesus day? Or is there something more profound that Jesus was hinting at?
All one needs to do is turn back one page from Matthew 24 to actually see for oneself that "this generation" does not have anything to do with a "contemporary" generation. He was referring to the lineage, or _"genealogy",_ of the scribes and Pharasees:
"So you testify against yourselves that you are the *descendants* of those who murdered the prophets. Go ahead, then, and complete what your *ancestors* started!"
With this in mind, take careful note that in verses 35-36 Jesus is doing *_exactly_* what he was doing in Mathew 24 - speaking to the people in front of him and calling them "this generation:
"And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. Truly I tell you, all this will come on *this generation."*
So what's the problem? The problem is that he is referring to something that extends _way beyond the limits of a lifespan._ He tells them that THEY murdered Zechariah. How could "this generation" possibly kill a man that lived about 500 years before any of them were even born?
This gereration is a generation that existed in the past, existed during Jesus' earthly ministry, and still exists to this very day. You will find them in Israel - still resisting the gospel, making plans to rebuild the temple and to resume animal sacrifice.
So what Jesus was actually saying in Matthew 24:34 is not that everything would be accomplished within a lifespan, but that the passing away of "this generation" was not going to occur until "all these things" have happened. This lines up with what we see in the book of Revelation. The very last thing to occur before the new heavens and the new earth appear is the second death - when the wicked and unbelieving will be destroyed.
@@trobace A double fulfilment makes sense of everything we see in scripture concerning the Olivet prophecies. I can give you evidence of this that I doubt strongly you will have heard before. The question is if you are willing to accept it.
I would say a double fulfillment is accurate. For example, the abomination that, causes desolation. Temple worship and jerusalem became an abomination unto God after the establishment of the New Covenant. Because the body of Christ is the new temple.
Today, men are still building buildings and calling them the house of God. When the scripture is clear that God does not dwell in buildings made by men.
There is an alternative view to full preterism, sometimes referred to as partial preterism. We agree that the Revelation was written to seven churches in Asia, in signs or symbols of events that would begin to take place in the first century. We would agree that this message of Christ to John, to deliver to these seven churches, is a message of hope, in that it demonstrates the defeat of all enemies of Christ and His church. These enemies were empowered by Satan. The first enemy, the harlot, or Old Jerusalem was defeated in 70 AD as retribution for spiritual adultery of the Jews, "We have no king but Caesar, crucify Him, let this man's blood be on us and on our children." The harlot was destroyed by the beast whose back she rode, but who hated her. The beast, which was the Roman Empire with its forced worship of its Caesar as God, was the next enemy to be destroyed. The rider of the white horse, Christ eventually defeated Rome with the gospel message, the sword of the Spirit coming from His mouth, and then against all odds and after much persecution, by the 4th century Christianity had become the national religion of the Roman Empire. The final enemy yet to be destroyed is Satan himself, who had empowered the previous enemies of Christ. The Holy Spirit in His revelation of truth separates the defeat of the first two enemies (harlot, Old Jerusalem/beast, Roman Empire) from the defeat of Satan by a minimum of 1,000 years. The millennium itself is symbolic, representing a greater period of time than 1,000 years, and thus, it is still happening, and has been happening since the collapse of the Roman system of forced Emperor worship and triumph of the church over the Roman Empire. Satan then rallies his allies once again at the very end of all things, and attempts to turn the world against Christianity, in order to finally wipe it out, but just before he is successful, Christ intervenes and ends all things. Satan is destroyed, all humanity is resurrected for the final judgment, and after this, eternity begins for all.
Many truth but not this one: by the 4th century Christianity had become the national religion of the Roman Empire. Yes they have become the national Roman religion but they have become the Roman catholic church and this was a apostasy of the church the church also became a prostitute to Cesar.
I am most certainly not a big brained theologian and the scholarship of those cited dwarfs anything I might honestly claim, to me, the forwarding of Preterism or even Partial Preterism seems to be infused with an issue of some sort will the supenatural, which is confusing because I personally have no knowledge of these same luminaries expressing anything remotely similar with regards to the divine birth, sinless and miracle-filled life, the divine sacrifice, and truly miraculous resurrection of our Savior and Lord. It is most perplexing and not the least bit distressing.
What is the new Heavens & new earth is it destruction of the cosmos ?
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Has the Mosaic law passed absolutely
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. they were waiting for the new heavens & earth the already and not yet
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. completed ! why was there no more sea?
1Ki 7:23 And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: this is the sea were is it in the temple
The house of the lord was the temple and the sea was in the inner court , heaven is holy of holy's the most holy part of the temple the shekinah glory, then we have the firmament the holy place were the lampstands are the stars , then we have the sea and the land the bronze alter , so when did this all disappear when did heaven and earth disappear? when the old covenant ended with the destruction of the temple .in 70 AD so all is full-filled
Rev 22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. full-filled !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No, all is not fulfilled, and neither has the old covenant passed away. Nowhere do we see any support for the idea that the old covenant would end with the destruction of any temple. What we _do_ see on the other hand is that the old covenant would continue to be intact throughout the generations of the physical descendants of the people of Israel. That is why the dispersion of the surviving Jews is a huge problem for preterists, not only because their existance supports the fact that the covenant would continue to exist, just as Jesus said, but also because if what you say is true would make God a liar, which we know is not true.
God promised in the old testament that after the Israelites were scattered among the nations he would regather them and restore their nation. This promise of restoration was repeated in the new testament. Preterism is a false teaching.
@@paulbrennan4163 Heb 10:1 For the ( law having a shadow of good things to come !!!!!!!!!!!) and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Mosses covenant Christ's covenant
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Heb 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
PRETERISTS take away from the words of the book of prophecy.
Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
New heaven and new earth represent the new spiritual realm to come , it's absolutely not a resurrection of our body 1cor.15: 50 What I am saying, brothers and sisters, is this: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
So yes the material present world will be completely destroy , matter is not eternal but Spirit are.
You brought to light a lot of the same issues i have with other partial prets using this text as an AD70 gopher to hit on the head.
(Im a partial preterist as well)
The advantage of being a materialist futurist is that you have a card up your sleeve that has never been seen and can be played in which ever way you need it: THE SECOND COMING. A joker, so to speak. The historicist can only play with what is on the table. The idealist however, he's all in.
Regarding the new heavens and earth. What sort of arguments convinces people when this language should be taken as new creation language and when new covenant language? I would distinguish Isaiah 65 and 66's new heavens and earth as new covenant/millennial age language, while Revelation 21 and 2 Peter 3, would be about new creation. The points in support of the new covenant idea for Isaiah is the fact that Isa. 65:17 comes right after language having to do with the destruction of the Israel who did not come when God called (v. 12), so God's servants (the Apostles) will eat (not suffer the siege at Jerusalem)(v. 13) and his people will be given a new name (v.15). This destruction seems to be well placed at A.D. 70. It is sometime after the A.D. 70 judgment that Jerusalem/physical Israel comes to Jesus as their king, in part through the ministry of the Gentiles (Isa. 66:20, Ezk. 37, Rom. 11:25, Lk. 21:24). Most significantly in Isaiah 65, the people will live a long time (100 years will be young, something which is becoming plausible) YET, they still die (v. 20). This new heavens and earth in this context mitigates against being new creation/post-millennial, but rather seems best located during the millennial new covenant age (which seems to have a Gentile Christian dominance and then an era Israelite Christian prominence).
The shaking of heaven and earth is related to the establishment of the temple in Haggai 2:6, and Hebrews 12 uses this to refer to the fall of the second temple and the confirmation of Jesus as the new covenant temple presence. Jesus says that no part of the teaching of the law should cease to be followed until "heaven and earth pass away" (Mat. 5:18), then in Mat. 24:34-35, Jesus says that the Apostle's generation will not pass away until all the things refered to (from v. 2 through 34) take place. Then, most significantly, Jesus parallels the "passing away" of that generation to the passing away of heaven and earth." The formal end of the law and the fall of the temple (the passing away of heaven and earth) can't be a coincidence. This would explain James' being called "the just" and zealous for the law by his fellow Hebrews (See Josephus), and Paul adhering to the law as a Jew in Acts 21:24.
I see no problem with “new heavens and earth” having a dual meaning: new covenant and new creation, depending upon the eschatological context. Any thoughts about this idea? Is this not demanded by Isa. 65-66 (post first coming) and Rev. 21 (post second coming)?
I've had a similar but different thought- what if Isa. 65-66 was a conditional promise to ethnic Israel, which they forfeited? Then, 2 Peter 3 and Rev 21 draw on the same language but make a bigger, more complete promise to believers?
@@michaelbarnard9087, perhaps, but my reading of Isaiah 66 is that the age of the new covenant is announced in vs. 1-4, Christ is enthroned, sacrifices are out, and v. 5 is about the struggle between faithful Israel and unfaithful Israel between AD 30 and 66. Then v. 6 is about the cloud coming judgment of Christ upon Jerusalem in AD 66-70. Then v. 7-14 is about the long road back to Israel's joy and rejoicing after her mourning in exile. Jerusalem will be comforted when she honors Christ as King in this millennial age, with Christ enthroned in heaven. Then v. 15-16 is the great battle and the fire that falls from heaven for the defense of the true Israel (Jew and Gentile united as Christ's glorious bride), same as Rev. 20:9.
Then Isaiah 66:17 cycles back to the AD 70 judgment, v. 18 is the glory of Christ's first visitation, 19 is the sign set among them of Christ's resurrection and cloud coming judgment upon Jerusalem (Mat. 12:39, Mat. 24:30), which scatters unfaithful Israel and the disciples in AD 66-70, one in judgment and the other as ministers to bring the gentiles into Jesus, true Israel. The gentiles, v. 20, then have a hand in bringing Israel back to Christ during the present millennial age. I think this reading is demanded by the text pronouncement of blessing after the AD 70 judgment. As a reformed Baptist partial preterist amil (or something like that) I don't accept the dispensational understanding, as there is but one people of God, but I think we reformed have something better to offer.
For too long we have allowed the dispensational misreading to put us in the NO to Israel camp, rather than the yes to Covenant climax in Christ camp. And the dispensationalists only have tribulation and judgment to offer them (and a 144K consolation prize). But for us, who see that judgment came to those that pierced him in that generation, we can proclaim that the darkness has passed, and the true light is shining. For all the promises in Christ are yes and amen! Israel did forfeit her status, and I’m not all clear on how the land fits into it, and they have no special status, but they have a promised renewal, a fullness of some strong degree unto salvation, that much is clear. If we Gentiles were able to be grafted in how much more will Israel, but only in Christ. And this is a far cry from where they are today. But if their stumbling is our salvation, how much more will be their ingrafting. Paul suggests that it might even be life to the world (i.e.. New Creation resurrection and Christ's return)(Rom. 11:15). Peter concurs (Acts 3:20-21).
But maybe my optimistic amillennialism has addled my brain. Hard to say. LOL.
If you are interested a redemption of Israel view among the reformed, check out Iain Murray and John Murray. Also, there is summary of this viewpoint on monergism under "Noted Theologians in History Who Believed in a Future Conversion of National/Ethnic Israel." Check it out, super interesting.
Covenant Eschatology (i.e., fulfilled eschatology) is the only view in which Jesus isn't made a false prophet, according to Deuteronomy 18:22.
No, it isn't. I have an eschatological view that does not adhere to preterism and yet by no means makes Jesus a false prophet. Let me know and I will expand on what I mean.
@@paulbrennan4163 You are not being honest, or do you believe Jesus was wrong when He made this prophecy? Jeremiah is making a compelling argument in relation to Deuteronomy 18:2. At least C.S Lewis had a honest reaction when he read Christ's prophecy.
• C. S. Lewis said this: “It is clear from the New Testament that the disciples all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime. And, worse still, they had a reason, and one which you will find very embarrassing. Their Master had told them so. He shared, and indeed created, their delusion. He said in so many words, ‘this generation shall not pass till all these things be done.’ And he was wrong. He clearly knew no more about the end of the world than anyone else."
@@james-cq3mi Please don't suggest that I am being dishonest simply because I disagree with _your_ interpretation of scripture... or even that of C.S Lewis for that matter! I was fully aware of what Lewis wrote concerning this at least a couple of decades ago, but I don't base my beliefs on any man whatsoever. You can put men on pedistals if you want. I do not. The interpretation I was given was actually the result of a prayer I prayed specifically about that particular verse. I would be lying if I said it wasn't.
@@paulbrennan4163 In that case I apologize for the dishonest comment, but believe me, I don't put C.S. Lewis on any pedestal. To be fair however, Jesus was adamant and did give four specific prophecies about when He would come in their generation for a reason. I would be interested in your eschatological view, and maybe we both can learn something.
• Matt 24:34 All these things, in this generation.
• Matt 16:28 Some standing here.
• Matt 10:23 City to city.
• John 21:18-23 If he remains until I come. What is that to you. Follow me.
THE BIBLE IS THE STORY of Yahweh's fulfilled plan of redemption given exclusively to ancient Israelites cursed with the Old Covenant law of sin and death and pertains to no one alive today, soteriologically nor eschatologically speaking. Here's more...
IF YOU BELIEVE THE BIBLE, then you'd have to agree with Jesus in Matthew 15:24, that he only came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
YOU'D HAVE TO AGREE WITH JESUS in Matthew 5:18, that no jot nor tittle of the (Old Covenant) law would pass away until the Old Covenant system, temple and people associated with it (what Jews referred to as "heaven and earth") passed away.
YOU'D HAVE TO AGREE WITH HISTORY, that the Old Covenant system, temple and people associated with it passed away in AD 70.
YOU'D HAVE TO AGREE WITH PAUL, who said in Romans 5:13, "Where there is no (Old Covenant) law, sin is not taken into account." This of course means that salvation was only needed by those who had sin taken into account, which was only ancient Israelites cursed with the Old Covenant law of sin and death, which is not us today.
YOU'D ALSO HAVE TO AGREE WITH HEBREWS 9:15, that redemption was only for those who sinned under the first covenant, which again, is not us today.
THE BITTER PILL OF TRUTH, is that no one has been saved nor redeemed for nearly two thousand years. The "church today" has been in a massive error; a complete hijacking of ancient Israel's exclusive and fulfilled redemptive narrative, the Bible.
"BUT...BUT...I'M A GENTILE!" Are you? The "gentiles" Paul and the disciples were preaching to were either Greek converts to Judaism, or the elect diaspora, grafted-in descendants of the tribes of Israel who were dispersed among the nations. Through the ministry of the disciple's great commission, they were called out from the nations to again be a holy nation of kings and priests, sealed for the day of redemption, which only they lived to see. Nobody today is a "gentile" of that sort.
TODAY'S SELF-APPOINTED, SELF-PROFESSING "CHRISTIANS" have been hoodwinked into believing they're sinners under a law that passed away, and need a savior who said he came for someone else, who will save them from a sin that's already been removed, and a judgement that already happened and allow them into a covenant that was made with someone else. The fact is , we today were never, and will never need to be, part of ancient Israel's exclusive and fulfilled redemptive narrative, the Bible.~Michael Bradley
...and as always, END THE FED!
Genesis 1 is ELOHIM (Lucifer and the fallen angels).
They made this realm.
They made man in their image.
Man is an idol, a trap to hunt angels.
Genesis 2:7 the Lord God forms His representative in their system.
One Gospel:
Gospel (GOOD ANGEL) of Reconciliation.
Jesus Christ came into THEIR kingdom
to reconcile fallen angels unto Himself.
We are the fallen angels (ELOHIM) kept in DNA chains of darkness.
If you do not confess being a fallen angel in Lucifer's kingdom, then you are an unbeliever.
Unbeliever = those that claim to be made in the image of ELOHIM(gods).
REPENT FALLEN ANGELS.
I enjoy but cannot listen to "um" "um" "uh" "uh" all the time. Don't want to appear as being critical. Just observing.
Thanks for the feedback, friend. That was the first thing my daughter told me as well. Will certainly strive for improvement in this area by God’s grace. -Ryan
that was the saddest most unconvincing exoplanation of 2 peter - what is this gibberish? Futurism is crumbling before your eyes - believe God, stop this sillyness.
All this move toward preterism seems to be a fulfillment of 2 Peter 3:3-4 "Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, “Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” Just in time for the Antichrist to rise; Donald John Christ Trump is the Antichrist; his mothers name Mary; fathers name Christ; his father started out a carpenter. 2 prophecies about AC; he will broker a peace deal in the middle east; he will recover from a deadly wound. Trumps 2 best selling books: 1) The Art of the Deal 2) The Art of the Comeback......look for Trump to retake the WH in 2024.....the end is near.....Biblical end times....buckle up! :)
I might have agreed with u but u let ur own negative opinion about someone get in the way of your claims and said he’s the anti christ. Ur just making ur point more stupid and spreading false information.
@@Faith-Central No you wouldn't have....and the fact that you love Trump proves that he is the Antichrist......Trump is the Antichrist in plain sight......You obviously still have blinders on......Like I could make up the fact that his mothers name is Mary, fathers name is Christ...hahaha.....you talk about stupid??.. (just google Elizabeth Christ Trump). Trump fits every single prophetic Bible verse about the Antichrist like a glove....Just watch the 1997 movie; the Devil Advocate with Al Pacino.....its filmed in Trump Towers....All over the ceiling are paintings of Apollyon which is Satans Greek name. Trump is a 33rd degree Freemason. He believes that Lucifer is God.....Your ignorance is obvious....Wake up.....These are the Biblical end times....buckle up! :).
Preterists wouldn't be the scoffers in this passage. They're telling you when He returned. It's the futurists who are scoffing.
@@shellysangrey preterism is beyond unreasonable....its foolishness.....one of the greatest ways to be deceived is to have an optimistic eschatology...the Bible teaches that things get worse and worse not better and better. Not only could Caesar Nero not be the promised Beast; but the idea that 70 AD was the worst event and time in human history; never to be equaled again; which Jesus tells us in Matthew 24, is total nonsense. Preterists get the Bible backwards....its sad. The world is now $300 trillion in debt; and on the brink of WW3...THIS is the period right before the true Second Coming of Christ....
PRETERISM IS A JOKE . 2 PETER 3 is really clear, why do you go to such extremes twisting scriptures in a non Biblical way ?
full preterist not partial preterist ''seam'' false but what I consider extreme twisting of scripture it's THE DISPENSATIONALISM and FUTURISM