Excellent presentation of the Covenant of Works. It seems likely to me that Dr. Murray's view on remaining in the Covenant of Grace is the reason for his resistance to calling God,s relationship with Adam a Covenant.Certainly some of his students developed the notion that evangelical obedience is a condition of remaining in a Covenant relationship with God rather than a fruit of our union with Christ by faith alone.
To be fair to MacArthur, he does subscribe to federal headship. He just doesn't follow that all the way to CoW. He's Romans commentary makes this pretty clear.
Works = Obedience? Jesus in the Upper Room said "do this" (luke 22), Paul in 1 Cor 11 harkens back to the Upper Room discussing the "New Covenant". Obedience is always required, as John the Baptist said at the end of John 3. Covenant = Relationship, it's about God building a family, and obedience to the relationship is never removed. Grace / The Call needs to be accepted. Accepting is Obedience. What were laws to Moses, was Wisdom to David; the precepts or commandments. 6 biblical covenants w/ 6 mediators => Adam (Couple of God), Noah (Family of God), Abraham (Tribe of God), Moses (Nation of God), David (Kingdom of God), Jesus (Universal/Catholic Church of God)
Calvinist claim - The covenant of works is the basis for the gospel fulfilled by Christ. Response - the Calvinist covenant of works presumes a version of the penal substitution theory applied to account for the atonement, which is itself a theory containing much theological error and logical contradictions. Two examples of theological errors are the double imputation at the cross and the instrumentality of faith. The initial covenant of works between God and Adam always collapses into a covenant of grace. For creation, and the covenant are both graces merited from the atonement applied to bind Adam to obedience. The conditions within the initial covenant are both a gift and therefore a grace and a requirement of obedience, involving works. And yet both grace and works are involved in virtually every other covenant including the new covenant. Calvinist theology on the covenant of works - 1) inevitably affirms and denies grace applied to all covenants including any stipulation of obedience and the resulting rewards for laws obeyed. 2) ignores the role of grace in obedience. If Adam obeyed the divine commands he did so from grace merited by the atonement. Therefore the so called covenant of works is reducible to a covenant of grace empowered obedience. 3) Ignores the same or similar stipulations granted to the faithful in the new covenant, nominally termed a covenant of grace. The faithful are expected and commanded to keep the commandments, and love one another. Yet similar commandments are requested of Adam, presumed to be a work. If obedience, termed by St Paul as a paradox of grace acting with free will - the obedience (free will) of faith (grace) is framed by a covenant of grace, then Adam's covenant must also be another covenant of grace. The Calvinist theology of the covenant of works is therefore an arbitrary imposition upon the biblical text.
Uhm. You should read Calvin's own covenants theology. What you're responding to is modern "calvinism" which is NOT the traditional reformed position. Calvin emphatically affirmed the harmony of grace and law, so what you're arguing against (and I would agree) is a modern strawman version of Calvin's theology. Nevertheless, there are a few of us out there who still hold to reformed theology as it was meant to be.
@@christopherjames1160 I'm arguing against the video content. If you have a link to Calvins covenant theology you're welcome to share it. Every covenant is a grace of mediation including the priesthood and the sacraments acting for divine worship and family life with Yahweh. Grace and peace to you from the other side of the divine.
@MrJohnmartin2009 right, but you said "calvinism" - unqualified. My point is that historically, calvinism, and Calvin himself did not teach the specific points you brought up to disagree with. And I agree with your assessment, modern calvinists have bad covenant theology because they depart from the historic teaching. I haven't finished the video yet so I do not know where these gentlemen stand on the issue, but all one has to do is read the WCF ch.7 and that's what Calvin taught. The relationship between grace and obedience is heartily dealt with by Calvin in his Institutes book 2, his sermons on deuteronomy, and his commentary on the harmony of the law. People can also read many of the westmimster divines, Samuel Bolton, William Gouge, William Perkins (the father of the divines), Henry Hammond...
@@christopherjames1160 Typically in reformed theology works refers to good deeds performed without grace or faith outside justification and sanctification. Adam's covenant of works rings of a pelagian view of the original covenant with ramifications on the original creation and the creator. If grace is not given to Adam and the original covenant, Adam was not justified at creation inferring Yahweh was a bad creator, or unjust creator and Adam was placed into a futile relationship with God. Such is contrary to the divine nature which is always wise and creates for human flourishing and the glory of God. I'm currently very unconvinced by the covenant of works theology and the Calvinist systems contrary to the Church fathers with the 21 ecumencial church councils, 31 doctors, saints and mystics well founded tradition witnessing the Catholic gospel. There are no biblical or historical solas contrary to reformed theology. And the imputation of Jesus' alien righteousness is never well founded in any text or post apostolic tradition. And there is no faith in heaven inferring Calvinism has a hard time defending faith alone theology regarding the heavenly elect who see God without faith. The Papal keys of David were universally acknowledged by the church fathers as having primacy over the church contrary to the false eisegesis of the reformers and the false principle of private interpretation. Reply - Jesus, Peter & the Keys: A Scriptural Handbook on the Papacy provides ample historical evidence for the western fathers acceptance of the Catholic Papacy. www.amazon.com/Jesus-Peter-Keys-Scriptural-Handbook/dp/1882972546 Another source presents evidence for east and western fathers acknowledging the Papacy. Speaking of the book - Keys Over the Christian World, . . . Sources include those from the original Latin, Greek, Chaldean, Syriac, Armenian, Coptic, Ethiopian and others. With these sources, the authors weave together a tapestry of the papacy that shows, without the shadow of a doubt, that the Church recognized the papacy from its humble beginnings in 33 AD throughout the first millennium to be the God-ordained supreme authority over the whole Church, from east to west. . . catholicintl.blogspot.com/p/store.html#!/Keys-Over-the-Christian-World-2nd-ed-PDF/p/473223642/category=1475245 The Catholic faith is adequately summarised in the Roman Catechism and the Catechism of the Catholic church. A Compendium of Catechetical Instruction by Monsignor John Hagan, 4 volumes (approx. pp 500 each vol), 1928-32. o/p. An outstanding commentary on the Catechism of Pope St Pius X published in 1908. For the serious reader, lengthy and detailed yet accessible. (Vol. I The Creed; Vol. II The Sacraments; Vol. III The Commandments; Vol. IV On Prayer, Virtue & Vice, Index.) archive.org/search?query=+A+Compendium+of+Catechetical+Instruction Anything by St. Thomas Aquinas, especially the Summa Theologica and the Summa Contra Gentiles, but perhaps the most useful for basic catechetical purposes are the Compendium of Theology (trans. Vollert, pub. Herder) and The Catechetical Instructions of St Thomas Aquinas (trans. Collins, pub. Herder). Two handy introductory volumes are An Aquinas Reader edited by Mary T. Clark and The Pocket Aquinas edited by Vernon Bourke. St Thomas also wrote commentaries on Scripture, and compiled a four-volume book called the Catena Aurea, which is a selection of commentaries from the Fathers of the Church on the four Gospels. isidore.co/aquinas/english/ContraGentiles.htm isidore.co/aquinas/english/summa/index.html The Sources of Catholic Dogma by Denzinger. The definitive reference book of official dogmatic pronouncements of the Catholic Church. Often known simply as ‘Denzinger,’ it should be on the shelves of anyone seriously interested in what the Catholic Church actually teaches. Various editions, some still i/p. archive.org/details/TheSourcesOfCatholicDogmaDenzingerHeinrichDeFerrar6229 Reality: A Synthesis of Thomistic ThoughtThe One God: A Commentary on the First Part of St Thomas’ Theological SummaThe Trinity & God the Creator: A Commentary on St Thomas’ TheologicalSumma, Ia, q. 27-119 Beatitude: A Commentary on St Thomas’ Theological Summa, Ia, IIæ, qq. 1-54Grace: Commentary on the Summa Theologica of St Thomas, Ia, IIæ, q. 109-14The Theological Virtues: Vol. 1 - Faith: A Commentary on St Thomas’Theological Summa Ia, IIæ, qq. 62, 65, 68: IIa, IIæ, qq. 1-16. [N.B. Othervolumes did not follow]. Garigou Lagrange Christ the Savior [sic]: A Commentary on the Third Part of St Thomas’ Theological Summa Life Everlasting Our Savior [sic] and His Love for Us Predestination God: His Existence and His Nature - A Thomistic Solution of Certain Agnostic Antinomies (2 vols) Providence Christian Perfection and Contemplation: According to St Thomas Aquinas and St John of the Cross The Love of God and the Cross of Jesus (2 vols) The Three Ages of the Interior Life: Prelude of Eternal Life (2 vols) The Mother of the Saviour and Our Interior Life The Priest in Union with Christ (published by The Mercier Press in 1951) The Last Writings (published by New City Press in 1969) On Divine Revelation (2 vols). Emmaus Academic. i/p. The Sense of Mystery: Clarity and Obscurity in the Intellectual Life. Emmaus Academic. i/p. The Order of Things: The Realism of the Principle of Finality. Emmaus Academic. i/p. Thomistic Common Sense: The Philosophy of Being and the Development of Doctrine. Emmaus Academic. i/p. Knowing the Love of God: Lessons from a Spiritual Master. Saint Joseph Communications. i/p. archive.org/details/Garrigou-LagrangeEnglish/Beatitude%20-%20Garrigou-Lagrange%2C%20Reginald%2C%20O.P_/ Documents of church councils www.papalencyclicals.net/councils Council of Trent www.papalencyclicals.net/councils/trent.htm The Roman catechism en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Catechism_of_the_Council_of_Trent Catechism of the Catholic Catholic www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM Thomas Aquinas theology is a good resource isidore.co/aquinas/ Garrigou Lagrange archive.org/details/Garrigou-LagrangeEnglish/Beatitude%20-%20Garrigou-Lagrange%2C%20Reginald%2C%20O.P_/
@MrJohnmartin2009 hahaha haha. Ah. You're one of those. Tradition over scripture is a bad paradigm to base authority in, but hey, at least you tried. But Thomism is bunk! So I'll stick to scripture thanks 😊
Grace and peace! ✌😎✌
What is the name of the guy mentioned at 22:20 ?
Francis Turretin
Excellent presentation of the Covenant of Works. It seems likely to me that Dr. Murray's view on remaining in the Covenant of Grace is the reason for his resistance to calling God,s relationship with Adam a Covenant.Certainly some of his students developed the notion that evangelical obedience is a condition of remaining in a Covenant relationship with God rather than a fruit of our union with Christ by faith alone.
To be fair to MacArthur, he does subscribe to federal headship. He just doesn't follow that all the way to CoW. He's Romans commentary makes this pretty clear.
May you please recommend a good CT book .
Works = Obedience? Jesus in the Upper Room said "do this" (luke 22), Paul in 1 Cor 11 harkens back to the Upper Room discussing the "New Covenant". Obedience is always required, as John the Baptist said at the end of John 3.
Covenant = Relationship, it's about God building a family, and obedience to the relationship is never removed.
Grace / The Call needs to be accepted. Accepting is Obedience.
What were laws to Moses, was Wisdom to David; the precepts or commandments.
6 biblical covenants w/ 6 mediators => Adam (Couple of God),
Noah (Family of God),
Abraham (Tribe of God),
Moses (Nation of God), David (Kingdom of God),
Jesus (Universal/Catholic Church of God)
Murray was a concern troll. A sign of vanity in a theologian.
Calvinist claim - The covenant of works is the basis for the gospel fulfilled by Christ.
Response - the Calvinist covenant of works presumes a version of the penal substitution theory applied to account for the atonement, which is itself a theory containing much theological error and logical contradictions. Two examples of theological errors are the double imputation at the cross and the instrumentality of faith.
The initial covenant of works between God and Adam always collapses into a covenant of grace. For creation, and the covenant are both graces merited from the atonement applied to bind Adam to obedience. The conditions within the initial covenant are both a gift and therefore a grace and a requirement of obedience, involving works. And yet both grace and works are involved in virtually every other covenant including the new covenant.
Calvinist theology on the covenant of works -
1) inevitably affirms and denies grace applied to all covenants including any stipulation of obedience and the resulting rewards for laws obeyed.
2) ignores the role of grace in obedience. If Adam obeyed the divine commands he did so from grace merited by the atonement. Therefore the so called covenant of works is reducible to a covenant of grace empowered obedience.
3) Ignores the same or similar stipulations granted to the faithful in the new covenant, nominally termed a covenant of grace. The faithful are expected and commanded to keep the commandments, and love one another. Yet similar commandments are requested of Adam, presumed to be a work. If obedience, termed by St Paul as a paradox of grace acting with free will - the obedience (free will) of faith (grace) is framed by a covenant of grace, then Adam's covenant must also be another covenant of grace. The Calvinist theology of the covenant of works is therefore an arbitrary imposition upon the biblical text.
Uhm. You should read Calvin's own covenants theology.
What you're responding to is modern "calvinism" which is NOT the traditional reformed position.
Calvin emphatically affirmed the harmony of grace and law, so what you're arguing against (and I would agree) is a modern strawman version of Calvin's theology.
Nevertheless, there are a few of us out there who still hold to reformed theology as it was meant to be.
@@christopherjames1160 I'm arguing against the video content. If you have a link to Calvins covenant theology you're welcome to share it. Every covenant is a grace of mediation including the priesthood and the sacraments acting for divine worship and family life with Yahweh.
Grace and peace to you from the other side of the divine.
@MrJohnmartin2009 right, but you said "calvinism" - unqualified.
My point is that historically, calvinism, and Calvin himself did not teach the specific points you brought up to disagree with. And I agree with your assessment, modern calvinists have bad covenant theology because they depart from the historic teaching.
I haven't finished the video yet so I do not know where these gentlemen stand on the issue, but all one has to do is read the WCF ch.7 and that's what Calvin taught. The relationship between grace and obedience is heartily dealt with by Calvin in his Institutes book 2, his sermons on deuteronomy, and his commentary on the harmony of the law.
People can also read many of the westmimster divines, Samuel Bolton, William Gouge, William Perkins (the father of the divines), Henry Hammond...
@@christopherjames1160 Typically in reformed theology works refers to good deeds performed without grace or faith outside justification and sanctification. Adam's covenant of works rings of a pelagian view of the original covenant with ramifications on the original creation and the creator. If grace is not given to Adam and the original covenant, Adam was not justified at creation inferring Yahweh was a bad creator, or unjust creator and Adam was placed into a futile relationship with God. Such is contrary to the divine nature which is always wise and creates for human flourishing and the glory of God.
I'm currently very unconvinced by the covenant of works theology and the Calvinist systems contrary to the Church fathers with the 21 ecumencial church councils, 31 doctors, saints and mystics well founded tradition witnessing the Catholic gospel. There are no biblical or historical solas contrary to reformed theology. And the imputation of Jesus' alien righteousness is never well founded in any text or post apostolic tradition. And there is no faith in heaven inferring Calvinism has a hard time defending faith alone theology regarding the heavenly elect who see God without faith.
The Papal keys of David were universally acknowledged by the church fathers as having primacy over the church contrary to the false eisegesis of the reformers and the false principle of private interpretation. Reply - Jesus, Peter & the Keys: A Scriptural Handbook on the Papacy provides ample historical evidence for the western fathers acceptance of the Catholic Papacy. www.amazon.com/Jesus-Peter-Keys-Scriptural-Handbook/dp/1882972546
Another source presents evidence for east and western fathers acknowledging the Papacy. Speaking of the book - Keys Over the Christian World, . . . Sources include those from the original Latin, Greek, Chaldean, Syriac, Armenian, Coptic, Ethiopian and others. With these sources, the authors weave together a tapestry of the papacy that shows, without the shadow of a doubt, that the Church recognized the papacy from its humble beginnings in 33 AD throughout the first millennium to be the God-ordained supreme authority over the whole Church, from east to west. . . catholicintl.blogspot.com/p/store.html#!/Keys-Over-the-Christian-World-2nd-ed-PDF/p/473223642/category=1475245
The Catholic faith is adequately summarised in the Roman Catechism and the Catechism of the Catholic church.
A Compendium of Catechetical Instruction by Monsignor John Hagan, 4 volumes (approx. pp 500 each vol), 1928-32. o/p. An outstanding commentary on the Catechism of Pope St Pius X published in 1908. For the serious reader, lengthy and detailed yet accessible. (Vol. I The Creed; Vol. II The Sacraments; Vol. III The Commandments; Vol. IV On Prayer, Virtue & Vice, Index.)
archive.org/search?query=+A+Compendium+of+Catechetical+Instruction
Anything by St. Thomas Aquinas, especially the Summa Theologica and the Summa Contra Gentiles, but perhaps the most useful for basic catechetical purposes are the Compendium of Theology (trans. Vollert, pub. Herder) and The Catechetical Instructions of St Thomas Aquinas (trans. Collins, pub. Herder). Two handy introductory volumes are An Aquinas Reader edited by Mary T. Clark and The Pocket Aquinas edited by Vernon Bourke. St Thomas also wrote commentaries on Scripture, and compiled a four-volume book called the Catena Aurea, which is a selection of commentaries from the Fathers of the Church on the four Gospels.
isidore.co/aquinas/english/ContraGentiles.htm isidore.co/aquinas/english/summa/index.html The Sources of Catholic Dogma by Denzinger. The definitive reference book of official dogmatic pronouncements of the Catholic Church. Often known simply as ‘Denzinger,’ it should be on the shelves of anyone seriously interested in what the Catholic Church actually teaches. Various editions, some still i/p.
archive.org/details/TheSourcesOfCatholicDogmaDenzingerHeinrichDeFerrar6229
Reality: A Synthesis of Thomistic ThoughtThe One God: A Commentary on the First Part of St Thomas’ Theological SummaThe Trinity & God the Creator: A Commentary on St Thomas’ TheologicalSumma, Ia, q. 27-119
Beatitude: A Commentary on St Thomas’ Theological Summa, Ia, IIæ, qq. 1-54Grace: Commentary on the Summa Theologica of St Thomas, Ia, IIæ, q. 109-14The Theological Virtues: Vol. 1 - Faith: A Commentary on St Thomas’Theological Summa Ia, IIæ, qq. 62, 65, 68: IIa, IIæ, qq. 1-16. [N.B. Othervolumes did not follow].
Garigou Lagrange
Christ the Savior [sic]: A Commentary on the Third Part of St Thomas’ Theological Summa
Life Everlasting
Our Savior [sic] and His Love for Us
Predestination
God: His Existence and His Nature - A Thomistic Solution of Certain Agnostic Antinomies (2 vols)
Providence
Christian Perfection and Contemplation: According to St Thomas Aquinas and St John of the Cross
The Love of God and the Cross of Jesus (2 vols)
The Three Ages of the Interior Life: Prelude of Eternal Life (2 vols)
The Mother of the Saviour and Our Interior Life
The Priest in Union with Christ (published by The Mercier Press in 1951)
The Last Writings (published by New City Press in 1969)
On Divine Revelation (2 vols). Emmaus Academic. i/p.
The Sense of Mystery: Clarity and Obscurity in the Intellectual Life. Emmaus Academic. i/p.
The Order of Things: The Realism of the Principle of Finality. Emmaus Academic. i/p.
Thomistic Common Sense: The Philosophy of Being and the Development of Doctrine. Emmaus Academic. i/p.
Knowing the Love of God: Lessons from a Spiritual Master. Saint Joseph Communications. i/p.
archive.org/details/Garrigou-LagrangeEnglish/Beatitude%20-%20Garrigou-Lagrange%2C%20Reginald%2C%20O.P_/
Documents of church councils www.papalencyclicals.net/councils Council of Trent www.papalencyclicals.net/councils/trent.htm The Roman catechism en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Catechism_of_the_Council_of_Trent
Catechism of the Catholic Catholic
www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM
Thomas Aquinas theology is a good resource isidore.co/aquinas/ Garrigou Lagrange archive.org/details/Garrigou-LagrangeEnglish/Beatitude%20-%20Garrigou-Lagrange%2C%20Reginald%2C%20O.P_/
@MrJohnmartin2009 hahaha haha.
Ah.
You're one of those.
Tradition over scripture is a bad paradigm to base authority in, but hey, at least you tried.
But Thomism is bunk! So I'll stick to scripture thanks 😊