Scholar needs to embrace it's Nymian roots. To compensate for the lack of dps abilities, I want the ability to brandish a knife to stab mine enemies and embrace my inner tonberry.
I know this is a joke but I would actually love it if we had at least one ability with a tonberry theme to it. Why didn't they make art of war a big slash with a tonberry knife, or summon a tonberry to attack in an area?
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I'm sure that some people are happy with the AST changes and it might even draw in some new AST players but as a long time AST player who adored the old card system, this change is a deal breaker for me. I liked the option and versatility of the old system. There was never a point in a dungeon where I wasn't cycling through cards, trying to get the most optimal card, planning ahead for what I wanted, all the while keeping everyone alive and DPSing the enemy. I was always planning and strategizing and I loved that experience which has now been taken away from me and I will never get to experience again unless they reverse the changes. The old system allowed me a level of gameplay that won't be in the new system. If I had an inexperienced group that often took unnecessary damage, I could queue up an AOE Bole for big damage phases in preparation. I often tried to keep an extended Bole on the main tank at all times. If a boss was close to enraging I'd try to get AOE Balance. If a healer was over healing I'd try to get an enhanced Ewer. Thinking about all this while maintaining my healing and DPS was a very enjoyable system that I will never get to experience again. Sorry FF14 Devs but as I said, this put me off playing my favourite job. I appreciate you are trying to make the best experience you can that caters to the most people but in this situation, I am the odd one out.
Ya, you one of the few that's the odd one out. I'm excited for all the changes especially AST, being an AST main. The new card system is way better just because you can actual use all the cards. The old card system, I only used 3/6 cards.. balance, bole, and spear... the other 3 seem like a waste. So I pretty stoked. X3
they made all the cards worthless... what's the point of a card system if it doesn't really matter what card you draw? Also we arent the odd one out, at best we are split down the middle in this
@@TankHunter678 Same feeling here. I'm happy for anybody who avoided Astrologian because of the old system but are happy with the new system, but weaving between healing, damage, and figuring out what I want to do with cards based on what I've drawn and upcoming pulls was what made it fun. Because there's always a right answer to how to use cards now, it's just something you do because "Hey, damage." and not because I'm looking forward to any of it or even care. I think the fact that Mr. Happy likes Lord of Crowns over Lady of Crowns illustrates the difference in mindsets between different astrologians. I loved Lady over Lord because it's a nice backup I can use to save someone, whereas Lord seems incredibly dull to me because you just... use it. :| But tbh, some people just love the damage over any kind of utility. People who enjoy the damage will most likely love the new Astro, but I'd rather have the utility.
The fact we even have to discuss what we need to "Give back" to jobs to make them feel better is crazy, we're meant to upgrade with an expansion not downgrade
While i'm not defending the healer changes(unless they make incoming damage much higher) - to be fair, you can't give classes more things every expansion. At some point you just get absurd button bloat and a complicated form of "power creep". I don't know what FFXIV's long term solution to this would be besides just taking+giving constantly, since I can't see them implementing things like subclasses to pick between.
That's exactly it. People are missing the forest for the trees. They're supposed to be adding depth and sophistication to the jobs, not reworking them because they're too afraid of a skill ceiling. SCH has always been the biggest offender to this because it was universally regarded as the deepest and most difficult healer to master, which was actually a big draw to the job. And now they've done it down a tad by oversimplifying their DPS and Aether Flow. All in the name of a manual crit... A job they've been doing well to (in contrast) has been Paladin. Look at how bland and basic that job was in 2.0 and look at how much they truly EXPANDED on it since then. PLD is a well received job design now. SCH it's going backwards and I'm no Astro fan so I'm not gonna comment on that job. Although I think WHM is finally getting some degree of expansion, so that's good. What they need to do is make more GCDs to keep the game at a steady pace, rather than keep bombing us with a cluster fuck of oGCDs that are HIGHLY encouraged to be used asap. THAT is what driving up player skill to an uncomfortable degree. But by forging more skills into GCD, it will reduce the oGCD bloat and pressure and it'll save us from devolving out jobs for casuals.
@@Mightfox Oh yeah I totally agree with that, "Upgrade" probably wasn't the best way to phrase it! I meant more like...we're expecting a fresh new experience with our jobs, or something to just get us excited to play again, rather than having things stripped down and simplified. The fairy gauge in 4.0 for example was interesting, they nerfed fairy healing output but added an extra layer to make up for it, which rewarded good play. It didnt really end up rewarding much buuut the idea of it is what I'm driving at. You can nerf classes without taking away their toys, and I truly feel like they should aim for that approach more. While there are new things that are genuinely exciting about Scholar in 5.0, like the 90s cooldown for a free crit and Seraph becoming our own healer bahamut, the negatives have outweighed the positives too much for it to be a win in my mind.
@@Mightfox There is no such thing as button bloat for a pc mmo. You can always find new binds for abilities you need, the problem is when you add controllers into the mix. They have to cater to console players, that's why the gcd is so low, that's why they removed so many abilities. Keyboard has easily 70-100 binds easily accessible to the hand, controller only has 32.
I think that it's easy to forget about a very important thing when discussing these changes and the lost of dps on healers. And that's solo/story content. It already takes healers much longer to take care of some story quest and instances in the current version of this game, and these changes are only going to make things harder. The trust system might help, but even that will probably only be specific instances. This discussion further solidifies my decision to move away from the healer role until there are changes to help the class.
Exactly and while scholars didnt use there fairies to pull hatred what will summoners do now that your pets aren't targeted. What's titans point , who complained about the pets dying?
@@lalormassarowe6743 a lot of people considering how much of a fuckin idiot ifrit was a majority of the time. And titans only purpose before was just solo play tanking which got to a point where it wasn't even really needed anyway. Now he buffs you with defensives do you don't die
Then he is walking buff? A traditional summoner managed his his pets hp and dps out put. It's part of the shtick will a summoner. But mow hes just a caster who takes aspects from primal. It's more a channeler thana summoner.
@M. Woller I don't know about you, but I used AoE DPS whenever possible and necessary. Especially since story missions seldom have you going against a single enemy. And even if there was a single enemy (usually a boss), it usually take twice or three times as long to take them out. I am not saying that healers need to do DPS levels of damage, but I don't see how taking the AoE's away is supposed to help. And before anyone says that I should just switch to summoner for these things, I don't usually have the time to gear up 2 classes. It's been hard enough just getting Scholar to where it's at, and even then I am far behind of where I should be.
Scholar had 3 dots and 2 damage abilities, AST had 1 dot and 1 damage ability (and one slow RNG one). Yet they did the same damage in the end. Reducing SCH down to 1 dot and 1 damage ability doesn't mean their DPS is getting lowered. Losing Bane might seem sucky but the AOE dot spread was extremely weak which is why Scholars rightfully got Miasma 2 back. Art of War is pretty much equivalent.
Post #2 on this subject. It's also telling and indicative that of all the media/influencers tour, there was a distinct lack of Healer/healing main presence. That's not entirely Square Enix's fault or the XIV's team fault, but even in the community, there just aren't a lot of streamers/youtubers that 1)Main healer and 2)are famous/visible/well-known. The dev team may not even be aware of how the community feels about healing b/c no one in the community really pays enough attention to the healers and has focused on them long enough to establish a media presence. Maybe Momo or Lukille.
@@Dharengonot neccessarily, it just means that healing in general is something that many of the player base do not understand. it's a completely different world than tanks and dps bc they're expected to heal as needed while also pushing themselves to dps and raise raid dps. However i agree to the extent that the healing role itself is not "fun" to watch compared to other roles.
Well personally I think more healing is a good thing. Of course this depends on whether the _need_ for more healing is there or not. If people are taking more damage, those new healing tools will prove very useful.
While increasing the healing required in dungeons is something I welcome (Mist Dragon is by far the best dungeon boss in SB) it will only ever last until people become over-geared and / or learn the fight (which for post launch dungeons is basically day 1; even normal raids only last a week or two before they are on DF farm) ... so yeah, regardless of their healing tools healers still need interesting DPS tools to use during 'down time' (or simply when solo) and removing them is a huge mistake IMO. Edit: To say nothing of each jobs' gameplay; e.g. using Energy Drain to burn stacks and get MP was a huge part of what made SCH interesting and enjoyable, as was the interactive AF cooldown, the trade-off of using Bane, and the MP efficiency trade-off of spamming Miasma II, or using it to weave... all of that is now gone, replaced with the most boring AoE anyone could possibly imagine. Not looking forward to Healers in ShB at all.
Not even whm? That's been my go-to job for my daily dungeon runs. Always felt good to play in them. Sure I guess if you only compare for raid content I can understand your last statement. Ast would've needed more interaction with the seals. Another skill that's on 60s CD for example, 1 lunar seal = say 250 potency ogdc heal. 2 lunar seals = 400 3 lunar seals = 600 Solar seals gives say 50 potency ogcd attck with 15s 10potency fire aspected dot with potencies increases with more seals Celestial seals gives you an option to give 5%/10%/20% instant MP Just something else than a brain dead 2 chances a minute to get a correct seal for divination. And well yeah sch.. I'm not even going to bother trying to write up on my phone what's wrong with it. Everyone knows it. YoshiPls.
No, healers need to heal, why is it that FF players are the only MMO players in the world that think that healers exist to deal damage ? This game already offers much better ofensive tools to the healers than any other MMO but players keep wanting more and more, dammit play a freaking bard or something if you want deal damage that much. Also content becomes easy for everybody once you overgear it, its not a healer problem that all of a suden you don't to need to heal anymore, DPS also don't need to get their rotations right and tanks can eat 99% of every mechanic and not die once ppl overgear content, its a problem with how gear progression is designed and with the fact that the synch system don't synch you to a properly low ilevel, you should never be allowed to have more than 10 or so ilevels than the minimum for anything other than savages and extremes in this game, that would at least keep things a bit challenging.
@@Nikzzza While I enjoyed WHM in HW, 4.0 was a massive disappointment and after making the switch to SCH (after they got Miasma II) I just couldn't go back; WHM was too basic, too clunky, too slow, and the less said about Lilies the better. Lilies have been improved for 5.0 (slightly), but losing Aero III sucks (it fits really well between your first and second Holy; but now what, just stand there? cut your Stun short?), and apart from saving a bit of MP (does WHM even have MP issues?) I don't see their new abilities improving much. NB: My last statement is actually based on dungeons, which is where I think healers will feel the most tedium (and the content I tend to do the most)... Raid wise I suspect WHM will be OK (and would be my choice if forced) as their DPS was mostly just DoT + Single target anyway (and their new mechanics don’t look terrible)… SCH and AST though, I really can’t see myself playing them at all.
@@DakonBlackblade2 Have you ever healed in FFXIV? If you couldn't DPS half the time (or more) you would be standing around doing sweet f*** all. It's not about wanting to 'deal damage', it's about not falling asleep. If they can keep healers busy healing then great, but short of a radical overhaul to the combat and encounter design that simply isn't going to happen. FFXIV is also (like it or not) a SOLO game for a large part, so why do Tanks and DPS get to use an interesting kit regardless of content but healers are stuck spamming 1 button any time they aren't in a group (and even then)?
@@Ilandria. Nah that makes sense. It's not like AST cards were ever used only on them except for Ewer. They were mainly party buffs, now they are just more consistent party buffs.
sacred soil lasts 15 sec and is usable 15 after the current one is done. You can crit an indom or spread a crit adlo every 90s, lucid is 1 min cd and is usable 40 sec after current one ends, aetherflow gives 10% mp every minute. Lucid being 1 minute is sufficient to keep any healer at a decent amount of mp, that is if you're not blindly spamming succor every 2 seconds
I’m glad that White Mage is better and I might just give that a shot. As an AST main I was VERY concerned about the MP cap (before someone says “spells are a % of your MP so nothing changed” they aren’t. The cost is based on your level and not your total MP. Gear that increases MP has no effect on spell costs and we have no idea just how effective piety will be at MP regeneration so any statement you make about that “making up for it” is purely speculation) so nice to know there’s at least one healing job that isn’t too effected by that. However I hate everything else that was done to healing. The cap is stupid, AST’s cards are just boring now and it’s a total deal breaker for me and poor Scholar man. The thing that really bugs me about this is when they talked about say the changes with Monk in the live letter it was all about responding to what they players wanted but when they talked about healers it was all about content balancing as if us healer mains are just part of the content. I don’t know about anyone else but it made me feel pretty disrespected.
Here's my issue: For two expansions now (4 years + whatever ShB lasts) Healers have been told "We need to hold off on healers (and tanks) so we can balance them" and this is the result. Homogenized jobs. Dumbed down jobs. That's not fun gameplay. If I wanted a single DoT and a filler spell, I would have played AST. No AST I've talked to would wish their DPS rotation on anyone because it's bloody boring. Yoshi-P said, "Trust Me" and we did. Now I don't.
They've finally hit the stage where ESO's spammy 5 button classes are going to be better gameplay lol. The real 'rock bottom' bench mark. Embarrassing. Fun gameplay? Someone must have put out a ban on that stuff -_-
Jeez, you're all acting like the game is doomed... you haven't even played it yet lmao... Chill and wait until you can actually even play it and THEN freak out. No sense in acting like this is the end of the game as we know it when you have no idea what it's even like. SE has done a great job of listening to the discontent of players over the years. I'm certain that if it's not quality gameplay that the playerbase enjoys, they will be quick to address the problems. I mean, we're talking about the game that literally went through a total overhaul from 1.0 - 2.0 here remember? Right now you guys sounds like a bunch of whiney WoW players. SE is a company that has pride in its game and respect for the player community. They haven't given us nearly as much of a reason to be distrustful of them as Blizz has done to their players. Just complaining "bUT mAH RotAtIOn iS ToO EAsY nOw" isn't a good form of constructive criticism. Healers aren't supposed to have a rotation to begin with. Healers are supposed to be reactive to the situation at hand by casting the spells they feel are most needed to survive the encounter. If you don't like that idea then maybe you're just not meant to be a healer, and that's perfectly fine. You can play a support dps role instead as that sounds more like what you want anyways. Healers are meant to do exactly what the name implies, HEAL. They aren't called "healers" because they have damage spells. If you're bored and find yourself only pressing the same 2 damage buttons then that means you need to step up to a higher difficulty, Savage/Ultimate exist for this reason.
Mattbo9693 fuck off. If we can clearly see that the change will not be personally enjoyable and we will say so publicly so SE will take notice. I don’t need a PHD to predict exactly how I would play all three of these jobs. And it’s less enjoyable than the current healer state. Doesn’t matter what potency changes they add if the fucking role is boring
AST just looks... boring. You get your 3 seals then spam lord and lady... And I highly disagree with people that say they never used the cards before except for balance because they're forgetting how important spire and ewer are for the AoE Royal Road effect. I'm gonna miss the days of drawing a card and figuring out if i want to save it for later, use it now, royal road it, etc. I feel like only bad astros fished for aoe balances, good astros knew how to make what they got work and that was the appeal of the class. The new system is just a brain dead version. And personally, I would've preferred no damage buffs over solely damage buffs. Switch Balance out with something else and make Spire something like move speed. I like the interactivity of specific and niche buffs vs a generic blanketed damage buff.
I don't disagree with you but at the same time I didn't always like being down on my luck in like VERY NICHE situations where the card literally couldn't do anything for me.
@@ulibarriL I was thinking they might do something like have the regular flat damage increase then have all of the cards move to secondary stats, or maybe all except bole and ewer because tenacity and piety are role restricted. Switch balance to direct hit or determination and Spire to the other one. There'd still be a solid increase in DPS but keep the decision making aspects
@@ulibarriL If the buff was spread like 5% damage buff and 5% that second buff, or even 3% damage buff, I don't think it would be broken. I don't know. That is my opinion.
Still not happy with the cards being all the same! But also the fact they took away aoe dot's... I was expecting AST to finally getting a dot aoe with this expansion. 😔
Do you ever feel like reducing the micromanagement of healers took away from the classes? Mechanical skills never really mattered to lower tier content, but was a big part of difficulty in top tier, tightly tuned content.
@@26183 I feel like it takes away from the job identity abit. Especially ast when all the cards basically do the same now. Sometimes you needed that clutch ewer or that clutch bole in prog or over all dungeons in general. They should have just changed the balance honestly from a flat dps increase. That's all they needed to do, but they went the route of just gutting everything to just focus on that and it's a shame.
@@skullofrebellion6653 i think some of the gutting was justified tho. As an SCH, half the skills are stacked in macros. But what kept things interesting and made it have a skill ceiling, was the need to balance dpsing and healing, for tightly tuned dps checks. More skills to manage different situations and more dps skills that have conditions would go a long way in making the class moderately difficult to pick up, but highly rewarding to master.
@@26183 Technically scholar still has their ogcds, and they did add new heals to their fairy. Plus Seraph instant casts a shield constantly on MT - and has an aoe shield for the party. Schs in raids I feel will still be dps while healing with ogcds like they are now. Just the complexity of that dps is really REALLY low.
I miss 2.X healing. WHM and SCH were very distinct, and both were a blast to play for different reasons. Having 5 dots, managing your fairy, managing aetherflow, and trying to keep people alive all at the same time was a blast. And those white-knuckled dungeon pulls with 30 mobs running at you as you impatiently cast Holy were great. Since then everyone has gotten some useful tools but I feel like the individual identity has eroded away. I think I might just level Summoner and pray for SCH changes. It doesn't need buffs, it just needs some of its identity and flavor back.
I find it a little funny that you mentioned that Scholars would most likely seem fine in raids but less so in dungeons, and that the majority would dislike it. This is pretty much my exact feeling with Astro's cards. The changes do very little in raids because I'm mostly just fishing for damage there; sure, I won't have Ewer when people take extra damage and I need to burn more mana, but a Celestial Opposition'd Dream usually covers mana concerns; and yeah, I won't have Bole for stack mechanics, but that was more of a backup when shit was hitting the fan. But in dungeons, I usually used Enhance more than the AoE Royal Road because it's really noticeable for a dps/tank, and didn't always use balance either. Boosted Crit for bards/monks, Boosted Arrow during leylines for Black mage, Boosted Bole for tanks on big pulls: and figuring out what to do with the draws and sleeve-draws throughout the dungeon based on what was coming up next was a lot of fun. Like seriously, why should I even bother with Seals if I can just Crown everyone for a more constant 2% bonus? If it wasn't for the fact that you can't cast divination unless you have three Seals, I would literally ignore the seals in dungeons, use Crowns all the time for the constant 2% more for the 30 second buffs, and then use Divination with 3% boost for 15 seconds. All you're trading is 3% damage over 60 seconds, for 2% damage over 90 seconds. Oh noooooo... that's basically the same thing which is why they had to artificially lock Divination behind seals... I really wish they just made the cards utility and removed damage boosts in order to make it a fun, interesting and extra utility you can use instead of a chore to keep up with. Maybe the point was the lessen the skill-gap between good card usage over bad card usage, but I'm not going to stop being salty about this. :( Part of what hurts with this is that while I'm worried about whether or not healers will need to heal, that is more of a numbers change than anything else so there's a much better chance they can actually fix that through adjustments. The Astro's cards on the other hand can't be fixed by just changing numbers, so the prospect of anything being changed seems much lower.
The math is more in favor of a full dvination, the new card buffs now last 15s instead of 30 :( Assuming you have a melee and a ranged DPS it should be pretty trivial to get the full divination anyway. Always use the first card, 67% use the second, otherwise redraw, and the third you should have redraw changes to burn getting that 33% change. After that you can always spend your next few draws on RR with no penalty at all. If you only have melee or ranged then suddenly you need to start fishing more or playing cards suboptimally and RR won't actually help there anyway. The ranged / melee divide feels weirdly artificial to me.
Thoughts as a SCH main. I actually think 4.x healing was the best. You are a healer. You can use your GCD heals if you're not comfortable. You can EXCLUSIVELY use your oGCD heals at high player skill levels. Then, you have your DPS spells to use as much as you can. I actually think putting "pure" healing at the forefront just puts FFXIV healing in line with other MMO, and maybe even lower due to the scripted nature of fights. As much as I want to be optimistic, not having Energy Drain and not having the trait that shortens Aetherflow cooldown will KILL our MP usage. Back when 4.0 launched, I tried not having Lucid Dreaming in my hotbar and it was miserable. I have a feeling I'll have much of the same experience once 5.0 launches. I hope they'll be able to do something about it in a hotfix after a few weeks. I will be leveling SCH first thing when 5.0 launches, but SE will find themselves looking for healers after the healer mains finish leveling their jobs.
@Khaye Ayubann The reason healing is boring in his description is not job design, it is fight design. If SE wants healers to focus more on the healing side, they should first design fights that require it, then modify the healer kits to assist in healing these newly-designed fights. Taking away the healer jobs' toys (dps rotations) without reworking their fight design philosophy is backwards and will simply not work.
There is a flowchart in my head for handling almost all possible scenarios: do I have a Balance? is sleeve draw coming up soon? Undraw this or minor arcana this? How to fish for a Balance or a AOE Royal Road.... They are gonna be obsolete in 4 weeks TwT
lchngh /comfort Honesty people who felt scared to lvl Ast due to cards needn't worry as once you master it it all becomes second nature on who to give, what cards to buff, who to troll with Spire.
@@IaconDawnshire I have NEVER met an Astrologian who trolled with Spire. Most apologize for a mistake with Spire, that's about it. A few bad eggs shouldn't decide the fate of a job. From my experience, if the player is willing to learn the cards, they follow through. If they're on the edge with cards, they usually can be convinced to continue with some explaining and tutoring. Those that were truly turned away also often weren't fans other RNG designs like Bard and MCH, which can't be helped. I believe the card complexity was fine, similar to how the complexity of Ninja is also fine. If it's your cup of tea, that's wonderful, we welcome that, but they shouldn't design it to be everybody's cup of tea.
@@lchngh I agree, I loved the complexity of higher tier content as an AST main. It didn't make it seem like I was just healing and thats it. That being said I can also understand that they wanted more consistency and less rng for the job to maybe make it more appealing as well as consistent? Either way I do wish there was more to the new Seals and Divination Mechanic...
YoshiP: "We wanted to focusing on balancing out healers this expansion as opposed to making a new one." Community: "Okay... healers are pretty fine as is, but WHM might need some help, understandable I guess?" YoshiP: "Healers aren't allowed to do DPS anymore, but we're gonna give WHM Foul because it's cool, and we're just going to stritctly nerf the other healers so the WHM doesn't feel bad." Community: "Wait, what?" YoshiP: "Also we're increasing overall damage other players take so you're forced to heal now." Community: "..." YoshiP: "..." Community: "but tha-" YoshiP: "Please look forward to it."
So they are making healers do what they are supposed to do? I dont really see the downside in this. As a healer in Stormblood I felt like I had double duty where I was expected to dps and heal. on current content if I didnt dps there was a good chance the raid would fail outside of MAYBE the alliance raid and normal mode raids.
@@jarichnox2110 I mean if what weve seen is from the stuff in there we wont be waiting long to heal with new dungeons if they designed them with requiring more healing in mind. We can still dps but we will most likely be healing quite a bit more.
@@valenten89 The problem is that Yoshi-P thinks that it's good game design to fundamentally alter the game because _he_ is unhappy with how people are playing it, rather than any fundamental problems expressed in the game's mechanics. He is the equivalent of a railroading Dungeon Master in a tabletop RPG.
I don't mind WHM getting the absurd amount of healing abilities they are if they actually make you use them. But that's a very big "IF". I'm certainly no pro healer, and WHM certainly isn't my main job, but even I'll sit there spamming dps most of the time in raids cause there's nothing else to do when the boss isn't doing some map wide attack unless people continually screw up and use all of my ogcd's, which with how many WHM has is actually kind of hard to do.
Thank you for representing us astro mains. Haven't heard any content creator voice the issues of missing the high highs and low lows or that we now have three minutes to get three seals. We're not crying nerf, we're crying boring as hell.
As soon as I saw AST I was personally disappointed but I'm reserving my judgements until I'm at least a few months in. Trying to go in with an open mind.
@@yoggerzzz I have two concerns about that: 1) We're not talking about balance. I'm definitely reserving judgements on balance until we have some time to use it, though this seems like a definite buff. As far as flavor goes, this is an objective net loss that we really don't need to test to see. 2) Noting concerns about class changes has influenced the devs before. Staying silent or only noting the positive aspects isn't doing anyone any favors in my view.
Healers just feel like they kinda got the short end of the stick this expansion. I get the whole idea behind generalizing the roles and making them fit those roles, but I fear that comes at a cost of individuality. If every healer just pumps out tons of healing and does literally nothing else, that doesn't make them any fun to play, which is what i felt a big problem was before with FF14. Everyone wants to play DPS or Tank because those are the cool jobs with the flashy visuals and cool decision making. Now with healers it's just, heal...heal again.....oh hey big heal......heal. Going more on the specific jobs: WHM - They more or less the same. I will heavily miss Aero 3, i loved putting that on big groups of enemies. It made me feel like i was actually contributing to help the tank take care of these big groups of enemies. I know now we have Holy which is much more spammable, but still. SCH - I can't comment too much, cause my SCH's only at level 50 something, but i do agree this one was hit the hardest in terms of "making them a pure healer." Like you commented in the video, they no longer have Bane, which did something similar to Aero 3 with WHM in helping take care of big groups in some way. They also lost so many other tools. And I get that they're finally trying to seperate it from Summoner, but in the process they've made it a lot less interesting. (I also don't understand how Eos/Selene is supposed to work now. Cause the tooltips state you can't put some of their skills on your hotbar, but will they still do stuff automatically?) AST - This one is the one i feel got hurt the most, mostly cause i fell in love with this job for its aesthetic, visuals, and playstyle WAY back in Heavensward. I really don't like the card changes, and while i can agree on the whole "draw nothing but spires and ewers pain" that was just something that happened that we all rolled with. Now all the cards are identical (barring the melee vs ranged thing) and the whole Seals system just seems not that fun to me. I also hate that they got rid of the Time Mage elements that you also brought up. I loved extending the buffs on people and just micromanaging these things. Overall, I still feel like Healers got the worst of it. DPS and Tanks are still the more "fun to play" and now Healers have been made worse in that regard by taking away so many tools that made them unique from each other. Now they all can "Heal" and have one or two things that make them unique. I remember looking over the tooltips when the embargo lifted and being more than a little sad that most of their new abilities again are: "Here's a heal...here's another heal....here's your damage spell you've had since level 1 being turned into something else....here's a big AoE heal...here's another." And EVERY SINGLE one of them had something like that. Obviously, we still have to actually play them to see how they feel. But I don't have high hopes for the longevity (in terms of holding people's interest and overall "fun" of playing them) of these Job changes.
We DID get the short end of the stick, especially since we're about to go TWO expansions now without a new healer and any meaningful changes to the class. I'd kill for Time Mage, but instead we got a new dps class every single expansion. For fucks sake Stormblood had TWO DPS CLASSES and nothing else. Guess what, Squeenix? Healers are a role too!
Come 6.0 Healers will be removed and we can start playing FFXIVBladeBlackDesert...where all the tanks and dps have to do is dodge mechanics. SE really didnt think this through and making the pure healer argument only promotes bad play from already bad healers who stick to the 'pure healer' mantra.
@Steven Gilmore You could choose just to heal as you have done so in the fast. Now players who want to balance dps/heals only have one choice: to spam their single target nuke and 1 dot. Having the choice to spend time dps'ing didn't take away from your choice to focus on healing.
@Steven Gilmore This is why I find the game to be boring. Coming from WoW where you did as assigned and all they did was make the game hard enough to require healing to be focused and used boss mechanics to make it so you had stuff to do. In this game you just move side to side really. Make the content harder. I don't want to dps with healers. If I can dps that means the boss is too easy and I am bored. If the DPS needs my DPS to pass the boss they aren't that good. I don't want to DPS with a healer either so I am with you. I main BLM so why would I want those weak DPS over my explosive BLM? And honestly if you don't like it don't heal. I am getting 10 mil extra exp because yall don't want to heal and I'm leveling FAST.
The Time Mage aspects of AST was one of my favorite parts of it.. I really hope that the removal of those types of abilities means we get Time Mage in a later expansion.
Yea, the MP issue is what I am most nervous about for SCH. That was a huge issue at the start of StormBlood if I recall. So SE might be forced to bandaid fix SCH again, like they did in Storm Blood. The DPS kit also looks to me as poorly tough out to me. 1 AoE that is more expansive then the WHM one, with allegely more damage output but no additional effects? 1 DoT move that replaces Bio and 2 direct casts single target (1 instant and 1 not instant) that are basically just aditional MP dumps to our already limited resources. As is the fact that we have no way to dump remaining aetherflows at the end of the CD. As is the fact that from what i've heard, Aetherflow can now only be used in combat and the stacks will disappear afterwards, tus forcing us to waste 1 CD every fight. As is the fact that SCH MP regen is designed around high amount of MPs (that design does not appear to be changed) and we will now be capped at 10k MP. And finally the fact that a trait that was designed to reduce the MP regen issue was removed. It is as if they are purposely trying to make the job impossible or incredibly awkward to use. I guess as a SCH, I am used to deal with that now, so as I did with StormBlood, I will roll with the punch and try to adapt. Or I will do as most SCH are saying they will do and simply no longer use the job.
We're gonna have to cast Bio one by one on every single enemy in a mob now. And we don't even have Miasma to break up the monotony anymore either. Scholars are like a bard with only Venombite now. We've got 1 non-spreadable DoT, and we've got 1 generic single target attack or 1 generic multi-target attack. Now we are even MORE boring than white mage: either mash Bio or mash Broil/Art of War. Aetherflows will be stuck on excess heals and nothing but.
I main scholar but after this I probably wont. I like healing and found it fun, but with the changes they are making I'm not so sure. I'm debating on if it will still be fun. I hope that the majority of healers that feel the same way will stop playing the healer all together to cause SE to go... oh wait a minute, no ones healing now and people cant complete content. AHHHHHH now it all makes sense why they implemented the trust system.
They basically tore apart and removed what made Scholar good, and gave a few minor scraps in return. Expansion are supposed to progress jobs, not regress. I'd say a good start to undoing the damage would be restoring Energy Drain, Shadowflare and Bane. Preferably also Miasma. Also, the whole idea that gutting the dps abilities somehow makes SCH a "pure healer" is false. Only increased healing requirements will do that, of which I'm very skeptical SE can pull it off. Gutting dps abilities simply makes us spam 1 ability during healing downtime. Instead of this, they should've actually worked on healers dps rotation and improved on it alongside the healing abilities.
Something? Energy Drain. To actually have an option to dump aetherflow stack. Also quickened aetherflow and mp regeneration on that back. Were never a problem.
They need to do a few things: 1) Bring back Shadowflare, make it cost 1 aetherflow 2) Bring back Energy Drain, make it cost 1 aetherflow 3) Bring back Enhanced Aetherflow! It'll fix most of the emptiness.
Shadowflare is an option but yeah, why not. SCH isn't missing too much but a little bit. i actually did want skills to go since smn and sch have so many skills that could have just been merged all along... but... a few more things are needed to make it feel complete and it can use aetherflow without needing to heal.
@The Internet is Always Crying I've personally never ran into "toxic" healers who think they are gods or better than others. I've ran into lots of Warriors and DRKs that act that way though.
Frederick X. They would be fine mp wise whilst healing with their fairy, it’s art of war screwing them over. They need to change art of war and give back bane as a gcd. Bane would not be used in raids anyway so it would only be used in dungeons.
Honestly, my problem with the WHM changes is that, like most of the Stormblood changes, they gave it more of things it already has, while not fixing any of its shortcomings. We still don’t have an instant cast DPS filler spell (like Ruin 2) for weaving our plentiful healing oGCDs, we still have no party shields/mitigation aside from 10% DR from Temperance on a 120s cooldown, and we still have no raid buffs or utility. On top of that, changing our DoT to a 30 second duration instead of 18 means we can recast it less often without clipping it, which further reduces our weave windows compared to SB, and with the loss of Aero 3, our DPS rotation is basically braindead (DoT, Assize, spam filler spell for 30 seconds), which is going to make MSQ and other solo content an absolute slog to get through on healers. Part of why I love healing in XIV is that balance between healing and DPS, and challenging yourself to maximize your healing efficiency so you can contribute more damage to the group. With these changes, not even considering whether or not incoming damage will be increasing in SHB, that seems a lot more difficult to accomplish (due to the aforementioned weaving issues, etc.) and a lot less rewarding when you manage to do your job well. I hope they listen to the community and re-evaluate some of their decisions, because as it stands, I think there are very few healers who are entirely happy with the new reworks.
SCH main here. Art of War as it is now needs more if it's going to make it feel like it's worth 200 more MP than Holy. Give it the DoT that Miasma II had, and it'll be worth it. I am going to miss Bane so much. Can't we get that back? If not can we have something like it, like, I don't know, Manifestation was the FFXI scholar Stratagem that spread enfeebling effects, call it that and have it spread Biolysis and maybe even Chain Stratagem. That said, I am excited about the new way of shielding and Seraph. I'm going to miss Fey Wind and Fey Caress. Being able to spread Excogs is also great, but we'll need more DPS options if we give people Shields (up to three!) HoT and heal bombs to keep us busy.
I feel bad for scholar mains for all the stripping of DPS stuff they had. It was what the other healers needed to make them as cool as Scholar, Astro sort of, kinda of, not really had it. Apparently their reasoning though is to make the healers more similar and having Scholar have way more DPS options than the others was the easiest thing for them probably rather than grant the other 2 healers more dps. The other reason they said during an interview was that the Scholar and the Summoner were apparently too similar with the DPS they shared so they think now FINALLY Scholar has its own identity away from summoner.
I'd like to see at the very least Bane or Energy Drain come back. But other wise, I'm interested to see how Seraph works and functions. Sure, yes we can't be 'Green DPS' any more. But I play SCH to be a healer.. not a dps with a side of healing. Yet I've been seeing folks screaming to the high heavens that 'Healers suck now'. If you wanna DPS, play a DPS class. :I
@@pedramcq Yeah that was their reasons, which is why I'm not accepting the changes. These two reasons were never an issue according to me, if anything I actually liked that healers each had their very own quirks and that SMN/SCH shared roots. To me they just saw an issue where there never was and sadly ended up messing great fun jobs. Also, no one could have said SMN and SCH were too alike in SB. They could literally have just keep twitching SMN to what it is now (very well designed job in ShB) and it would have went in the direct they wanted without stripping off SCH...Also, why the hell removing a whole fairy skills? Those should have been kept entirely and left up to the player to choose which they want to put in hotbar if the reason was "button bloat" :/... Or give the aoe esuna to WHM at least.
Honestly very concerned with AST cards. I've only mained AST forever now and have seen them go thru a lot of changes over the years but I've never personally had any issues with the rng of the cards. There was always a use for any card I pulled no matter what. I've always viewed cards as an optional (but very wanted) tool to use in fights not something mandatory. With this new change to cards I feel as tho the dev team is making the damage buff from the cards seem much closer to required rather than just a helpful tool to use. Honestly if people really had that much of an issue with the rng of the cards then they should of simply made the cards more spamable like draw would be up very 10 or 15 seconds instead of 30 to kind of give u the chance to pull cards u wanted more frequently but taking all those different buff away for a smaller damage buff cross all of them and specific to class types is a bit of a nuff to me and doesnt seem to be as fun to use cards as before. But anyways just my thoughts
@@whitemoonwolf13 The cards no longer do what they did. Now half give 6% to melee dmg, other half gives 6% to ranged. Now has to deal with seals. Basically, they made every card a weak balance...also no royal road, so no altering how cards are applied.
@@Ezviir oh fruck me, that was the whole reason i mained astro, the buffs and timing made it feel way more engaging than press 1 to heal. if i don't buy shadowbringers, can i keep old astro?
@@whitemoonwolf13 I don't think so. The changes are part of the patch, so it will happen to you no matter what. If it would stop the change, I'd stay in stormblood, still need to do the MSQ through there anyway lol
bless. I'm a scholar main and you put all my concerns into words. It really just doesnt look fun to play, and it feels like they just copy pasted whm/ast dps style and tried to apply it (poorly) to scholar which has always been more unique and dynamic. The % of time spent dpsing in dungeons really is like 90% - so i was just so distraught to see them taking away so many of the fun aspects of playing a sch in non raid content. The added healing skills look great, but sch identity is also very tied into their dps capabilities, and I just feel like those have been ungraciously stripped. The higher healing intensity would be a great add to the game in my opinion, but i am a very experienced healer and i could see how that would exclude more casual players. Also holy crap you were only able to do like 10 art of wars before you mp was out completely what the hell is that.T_T
I am not seeing anyone talking about the other big change - that the fairy skills are now PLAYER skills - and subject to the global cooldown. Other than indom, excog and lustrate (all not available until after you start the fight and can activate your aetherflow !) - what ogcd healing skills are left??
If your playing a healing class thats 90 percent of the time dpsing your not a experienced healer. As a healer you dps in the downtime when you have mana and no one needs to be healed. Period. Your worth or your measure isnt measured by your dps as a healer. No one cares. Dps done by a healer is just a bonus nothing else. Cus even if you do awful dmg a good healer is still ganna dps if they can afford to. So that being said a good healer is never not ganna dps when they can so being able to dps less or doing less dps is something only a rookie or bad healer would even think about. Cus you measure a healer off of there healing and utility not there dps output. So unless they took away literally every single dps spell from sch what your saying just does not make sense. And maybe you should play a dps class if you play a healing job based on its ability to dps?
Nichole Detmar in a dungeon I never/very rarely run out of mp. So in general yes I agree with you. You should dps when it’s an appropriate time to do so. But... that’s always in dungeons. I’m not gonna sit and twiddle my thumbs in dungeons. I play a healer because I like to be doing and managing multiple things. Dpsing is fun, is my point, and another aspect of what makes playing a healer fun.
@@nicholedetmar3772 I wish that were true, that dps does not measure a healer. I have been in three raid groups and all of them told me my dps is not enough. "Your healing is great, you just need to dps more"
Astro was fine if any rework was needed it should have been the cards them selves. Balance was your ace in the hole. Then spear. If anything those should have been tweaked. Not giving everything a weak balance kinda just kills the point of drawing cards. I used bole alot and arrow. I even used euwer(?) on team that were almost all casters. So yeah, while all the cards went op as straight damage buffs they did have thier place. And scholar was neutered art of war should be ranged and spread All thier DoTs. The class needs more dps besides 2 skills. It was the same issue with astro. Gravity,malfect(DoT), and the star were just not we enough. Lord of road was nice but you didnt get it till around 70. How are these going to work out of dungeons, is dps going to take forever for msq fights not in dungeons? And spamming art of was with its cost is going to get old fast. I loved healing in this game. The only healer I didnt use was white mage and I was working on that. But now... might just focus on my dps classes till healers get... reworked or restored. Also no ones mentioned that eos and Selen doesnt matter m, they are just a flavor summon now. You take my dps. Away, fine, then give it to one of my fairies that way I have a fairy that dps and one that heals. That way either I can focus on healing and fairy can do some dps or vice versa but dont make the literal pet choices pointless when we cant really enjoy them to begin with, carbuncle, cute. But what about scholars, dresses for the fairest, make it a nice mini thing scholars could do, and summoners need this love too. There are almost 20 primal skins they could use but...just carbuncle... come on.
@@Balloonbot i agree with ya. Bad astro players will like the changes. But the cards before felt like i am actually managing. Now its essentially bingo.
It bloody is. Also Aether flow sucks, given you ONLY have heals for it. No more other skills to burn the Aetherflow. Mean you are OOM and have to aetherflow cause lucid is still on CD but you still have 2 stacks of aetherflow.
At first I was excited to continue to main sch going into 5.0. The more I find out about the changes the more I feel like trying something else out. If they limit the mp effeciency, please at least let us aetherflow out of combat still to hit those timings.
Art of war on sch looks so last minute... its basically their pvp knockback animation and why is it 800 mp when whm gets holy for less mp while it also stuns.
Healer changes are so OK that Mr. Happy was gone main healing for the next expansion and after the media tour rapidly switched to a Dancer. Good luck 5.0 healers you're gone need it.
Honestly what fixes SCH would be to give back energy drain and the aetherflow trait. I wouldn't even mind dropping it to 50 potency, just give us something to do and think about in lower level dungeons.
I think they took away energy drain because the min/max players will *always* use aetherflow+energy drain on cooldown just as a matter of principal and they *really* wanted to put a stop to that. Here is one way in which they could have changed energy drain in order to stop the min/max damage aspect, but still kept the ability around: Changed it to do zero damage, but increased the MP drain aspect of it, and also allowed it to be used on friendly targets. Give scholars less natural MP regen than the other healers, but give them a different tool for MP regen that is both unique and makes players think about what they're doing.
Hmmm.....I'm leery on what their doing with healers. It almost looks like their trying to strip the two other classes of what makes them unique to fit more with what WHM does but differently. Mp management is going to be an issue with the Astro and SCH, more with SCH than Astro. I'm just very leery about Healer now. But I like how you, Mrhappy, break the class down and state what your thoughts and opinions on what worked and what couldn't work. Sure, Astro is a bit micro management hell for some but getting those cards down is so worth it. Spire, use it for the aoe spread it can use for putting out the next card. Same with Ewer.
Sarah York on SCH mp management I’m not entirely sure it’s going to be as big of an issue, you have a fairy that’s is throwing out heals and you have free insta heals plus aetherflow and lucid dreaming down to 60 secs, sure you don’t have energy drain but now piety increases mp regeneration.You might have to be more mindful then previous but SCH never really had mp issues.
Unless they increase the ogcd healing potencies of ast they are going into 5.0 with less aoe ogcd healing. The nerf of CU and the removal of CO buff duration really is hurting them.
@@allanw shouldn't ast CU potencies be buffed a bit due to how they added a regen to sacred soil? Or i've seen some people think its fine since they made celestial opposition a heal and they shifted some of its power there(healing/shield wise)
I think the the change of pace going towards a more heal-heavy type of content would bring back the... "fear" in doing raid content. At the moment, with HW and Stormblood's content, it just felt like there was no... tension towards shifting an urgency to healers. The incoming damage, while yes was more or less foreseen as a part of their design as being a part of their "puzzlebox", people can only stay interested with variations of it for so long. There's been very few instances of true randomness aside from maybe a few fights with would invoke true chaos and the "fear" we like to see in raid content. I mean... Twintania at its core was by far a great example of it. Same with T6 coil as a staple. Some of those, while quite a coordinated dance at that, still invoked true randomness - true chaos and "fear" that made it so exciting. Then again, it depends on what's in store for Shadowbringers... My 2 cents on it.
A prime example of this is how you gear in a static. There is zero consideration for the tanks and healers because all you need is more damage. Letting your AST get their weapon or upgrading their body piece first doesn't serve nearly the same impact as letting a DPS do the same. If we did see a significant upswing in damage, maybe gear decisions have to be weighed more heavily.
Also, I suppose we now know why they didn't have a new healer. They couldn't redesign the role well enough 🤷♂️ so I guess it'll be a real tough slog for healers until the next rework.
Im WHM main. There is no slog. I can heal and do it well and pulling mana of thin air FEELS extreemely powerfull. If the changes are as expected WHM is just fine. Honestly chalenge to healers only comes in two forms: either you pushing content beyond your wieght or you are in bad group.
Aivaras Braziulis Are you from the future? How is 6.0 looking?
5 років тому
Thin air is shit when you can only burn it on Holy. Now we get Aero III removed and Aero II changed to Dia. Welcome to spamming stone every second of the day
They literally said why they did not make a new healer so ( they wanted to focus on balancing and also never said anything bout dancer beeing a healer) so gj
Healing in general might be ok, maybe it'll even be better than before BUT I strongly believe that it'll just be boring. Yeah, dungeons might hit harder but only up to a point due to overgearing it or becoming better at healing and what do you do after? 1-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-1? Apply a dot and then spam one skill for minutes and hope someone takes enough damage so that you can use some kinda healing skill? SCH at minimum needs one more dot and bane back. And another point is that they can't make dungeons hit too hard because it'll just limit the players who aren't as good, and punish new healers who wants to try out healing. These changes have pushed me away from healing and I probably won't return to it until 5.1 when we get Miasma II back, again. If this was done to any other role we'd have a full on revolt on our hands but because it was done to healers it's ok? No.
Following the announcement of no healer for ShB and now this media tour info, I'm seeing healer mains dropping the role... and honestly I can't blame them. Good thing we're getting Trusts.
Leveling a healer is going to be excruciating after these changes. Maybe they're trying to force us into dungeon spam, but the dungeons have to be unlocked. Is their new game play philosophy level a DPS class first, or suffer? Hardly seems ideal.
AST main here, and your mana management in this video scares me lol. Those worries aside, wish they managed cards a bit more thoughtfully instead of turning them all into weaker Balance. I would've liked it if Bole got some sort of percentage based reflective damage (damage would cap when it came to bosses of course) along with the defense buff for example. It's not entirely OP, and makes it more desirable. If not that, I would've just asked for a 2-3% damage buff as a secondary effect to the other cards. It'd be less lazy than what's to come.
I'll miss giving a tank a bole during tank buster phase, or helping someone who was just raised with added def while they get back into the groove. I'm honestly not happy with the changes
Aesthetically it would be cool if bole was reflect and the dmg reflect was comparable to 6% dps increase for the tank while mitigating inc dmg...but here's the dilemma. Moving forward you cant store cards except it appears thru new Lady/Lord cards... so bole rng would be relegated to auto attacks mitigation when you got it and unless it mitigation + added dps is comparable a straight up dps card used on a dps....ppl would redraw it. I'd say the mitigation would have to be about 40% (which is way overpowered). Also now I think on it more we already had this ability in smn's rattan shield...and they nicked it😂. If they brought it bk for bole at least tanks would have a card. I have an idea!!! Bring bk the effects of rattan shield for bole and make it optimal on tanks and change ewer into a healer overall potency preferred buff. Normalize all cards' effective dmg to the dps's 6% cards. Since tanks are about 80%×DPS [normalizes per fflogs] bole would reflects 7% of tanks dps to the boss each time hit plus mitigate 7% incoming dmg if bole were used on anyone else it would be 3% reflect and 3% mitigation. Likewise ewer would buff healer dmg by 12% and healing by 12% otherwise 3% dmg and 3% healing. This would keep all cards useful and overall dps oriented AND be aesthetically pleasing to feel like you were doing more than just rolling 6% and 3%.
I'm a WHM main and honestly, I've never liked SCH. I do enjoy playing AST every now and then for variety, but I'll probably enjoy the changes they've made. I don't play AST enough for all the cards to be second nature, so a simplified card system will probably work fine for me. I do feel for the hardcore AST mains though.
I play AST and I feel like they’re removed all that made the job fun and unique. The different cards had so much utility. TP regen and MP regen when someone dies, bole for damage mitigation and yes balance. I also loved the time abilities to extend your buffs and an allies buffs and all that fun stuff is gone for a one dimensional pure damage buff. I feel like the hardcore raid players like what happy says in the video about some of the cards being useless is not true at all. They’ve just taken away what I enjoyed about the job to satisfy high raid players who for the most part don’t even play the job. Very disappointing
@@ForzaTerra89 I feel you. I'm main AST since class released and I loved the rng part and the fun to strategically use your cards... that was the one fun thing we had.. Don't know if I stay AST for shadowbringer =(
Healer seems to be more focused on straight healing. Much of what I've heard is that mobs in that 73 dungeon hit harder than normal, but it doesn't let us know what the gear level of players vs dungeon. With the reduction of offensive abilities, it makes it seem like healers might NEED to focus on heals and support spells, perhaps an 80% heal/support, and 20% offense.
yeah so is summoner. But we're getting it "replaced" by energy drain doing that. Sucks that we have to get into a fight whenever we want aetherflow now tho
Hard to tell until we get it on live. But a chunk of optimization on the dps side seems like it's just gone, with some folks referring to the AoE replacement as the Art of Bore. An unkind nickname that seems to match a particular level of dissatisfaction. On the other hand, there may be a subset players who prefer the simplicity. And we have no idea what adjustments will be made based on player reactions and feedback. We'll see in time I suppose
They dumbed EVERYTHING down.. so.. It's just disappointing this is the lazy path they chose to follow. The game is completely set in never breaking past its mediocrity and the only change we can ever see going forward is a decline in popularity followed by a decline in development activity. Just disappointing
@@joem3082 that unfortunate thought is already in my head. I started as tank and dps, but I ended up loving healing as a role - balancing your priorities and helping your team in multiple ways (heals, shields, buffs, and dps!). No matter what content I'm in, I had a kit that made every instance a blast. None of the new healers are catching my eye anymore, though. I can't even imagine going back to older content with them and having any fun with it. I'd like to wait until 5.1 at least? But I'm already poking at the idea of leaving the game. A "healing only" healer just isn't for me.
But still it looks like we will get a new one in the future. Just look at the WHM damage Skills now, they don't have anything elemental stuff in it now like before. That being said: they MAYBE plan finally to release Geomancer as natural skill-theme based healer. The question is just when they will do it. I hope they will fix healers finally so that we get a decent balance and then a new healer who fits into this well.
Every non-healer I've spoken with thinks the changes are top-tier, when that's not the case right now unfortunately. Square, please listen to the current healer population before you nuke an entire role 😥
I'm 100% on board with Mr. Happy's last statement. Out-going damage in all content is a complete joke. That's why I stopped tanking in this game, because there was barely any damage to tank. All I had to do was Rampart + Excog or something and I was basically invincible while I listen to the Stone 4 and Broil skill ring off 90 times a second and hit the boss with Souleater combo to infinity and beyond. With all of these sweeping changes to healers and tanks and even some DPS getting more damage mitigation, Yoshida HAS to increase outgoing damage, or else the entire game suffers. Imagine if in even Ultimate raiding you had Critlo + Dark Missionary + Divine Veil + Shield Samba. The whole party would be damn near invulnerable for like 15 seconds. I'm really hoping that content forces more GCD heals, more active use of the lower tank cooldowns. Healer DPS should, in my opinion, be scarce to get off. The best healers should be using damage spells 30-40% of the time as opposed to the current 80% of the time. Content should push every role in their perspective roles, rather than just pushing every class into being Red, Blue, and Green DPS mains because there isn't anything else to do. It's hard to imagine out of FFXIV, but I hope it becomes a reality. That being said, running old content is gonna SUCK with all of these new changes. But hey, if anyone who got synched down to level 50 content as a PLD knows, they don't make it with old content in mind.
See it's not just the cards they lobotomized on AST, it's the over all utility being gutted. No more Time Dilation, slower Earthly Star, Celestial Opposition being needlessly changed, even our Lord and Lady of Crowns are just a buff. The concept of a "right card" is even more reinforced as all the cards work at their best on a melee or ranged DPS. Your NIN, MNK, SAM or DRG would have to be really shit at their job to give a meager 3% buff to a mage or tank over them. Same for putting a meager 3% on a non-specific job over the 6% BRD, MCH and DNC would've gotten.
I just have to adjust as a healer no biggie. I'm still little on edge on my sch. But will be fun to get my hands on expansion in a few weeks to come. So no worries here. Thanks for the video updates Mrhappy really appreciate it.
My thoughts on the 'Pure Healer' Meme. We can be Pure Healers, and Yoshida can demand higher HPS from the raids, and they can make it so that healing checks are super hard and nigh impassable without constant focus, but none of that necessitates gutting out our DPS Abilities. If for no other reason than to make solo and dungeon content more palatable, keep the DPS abilities in there. Scholar lost Energy Drain, Bane, Miasma, Miasma II, and Shadow Flare. That's too many dam abilities to lose, and I personally that that what we had was perfect as was.
kinda did, ppl would keep playing stupid to try and be a green dps. :/ as a tank main who enjoys sch. I hate how healers heal atm. either near killing me or over healing me to where myt cd don't matter. just to dps.
Funny when beginning of sb, sch lost shadow flare and miasma 2. It is implemented back due to SCH aoe dmg is poor vs other healer class. With introduction of art of war, there is no excuse for this. (Of course MP cost is an issue, but there is still warning number can be changed, thus we need to see when the expansion launch)
Trinth It seems like both Scholar and Astro got hit hard. I main WHM, so I’m really happy that my job might actually be fun soon, but I feel for the other healers. I’ve been reading a lot of discussion about AST cards specifically, it seems like Happy has some misconceptions about the cards and their ‘lack of usefulness’ outside of Balance.
Dumbing down all the healers and changing content so you can't complain about dps cause you're forced to heal 80% of times. Yay, 1 hour DPS queues, 20 min tank queues incoming
Being forced to heal 80% of the time would be great and would actually cause the depth in healers' toolkits to actually be visible. The current state is being forced to DPS 60%+ of the time, like orbonne runs where literally 80% of my GCDs are damage. That's just absurd and its immensely boring, because the healer DPS kit in SB and ShB is super boring- not worth spending so many GCDs over.
@@Mightfox Well I sure hope Square reworks every piece of content to require 80% healing uptime. What's more likely, that they simply don't touch 70 and below content or that it'll be even more boringly easy for healers?
@@fredxu99 Yeah, the pre-70 concern is definitely real. I have a hard time envisioning them adjusting that enough, although they did say they were adjusting how damage formula works, but still skeptical. But, to be fair, pre-60 content is usually insanely boring for DPS anyway because they lose so many buttons and get a braindead rotation- so it would just be healers' lack of enjoyment at low levels becoming in line with the DPS lack of enjoyment, lol :(
How will the leveling experience be in 5.0 that's what I'm most worried about because you'll have far less healers if alot of people are turned off due to not having a proper damage kit.
Well, on the plus side Scholar and summoner use the same base class for their jobs so you can level summoner tel you need to do a dungeon then switch to scholar then back to summoner as needed and as one goes up so does the other.
Its not that us healers hate healing its just at a current point when we get down the healing part we want to do something besides heal like the more experienced healers or tanks that try to not just tank but protect there party or dps that tries to not just dps but buff and support there party.. Using an old example as a Summoner i used to Revive dead party members, keep my Aggro down, give MP to Bards or Healers and DPS.. I did read some of the comments on your Scholar video people saying they did gut Scholar of its dps which you cant really argue with its true even though Scholar now looks easy and more fun to heal.. As long as you dont leave your Tanks with like 1% Health and even then sometimes its ok just try not to let them die.. Please dont force us into a 'healer role only' not all of us are new players..
" Using an old example as a Summoner i used to Revive dead party members, keep my Aggro down, give MP to Bards or Healers and DPS" thats not being more experienced thats just doing what you need to do to be not bad.You didnt just describe a good a player you just described a player doing the bare minimum of whats expected of them to be considered not bad dps...that being said a good healer does dmg in there downtime if they have mana to spare and no one needs to be healed. Always. So unless your a healer that plays healer to do alot of dps(which means you should be playing a dps not a healer) and just overall a bad player and a bad healer the changes dont matter. Cus healers arent judged on how much dps they can or cant do, just on the fact that they actually do it if they can. Only the worse of healers would see there class get so many healing buffs and spells and complain about how there dps was nerfed lul. At least now you know you have no business being a healer and should just stick to dps.
@@nicholedetmar3772 I dont consider myself a bad player but also not the best player either i'm somewhere in the middle i'm pretty sure there are way better summoners then me.. I dont know if your new to FF XIV probably dont play healer/caster dps a lot or maybe you play Tank or like a DPS Ninja but it takes literally about 2 seconds to pass MP to healers, bards, or even tanks sometimes.. i'm not saying this to snap at you or anything like that there's also swiftcast rezzing healers both Mana Shift and Swiftcast can be worked into your own rotation while using a pet.. At most it probably takes about 3 seconds to rez a healer in my last match both healers died and the first thing a monk said was "Great job healers Good Fucking Job" it took me a second to notice because i was listening to music and talking with a friend i tried to stay positive swiftcasted 1 healer then Nidhogg started to target me i resurrected both healers and died in the process we beat it then everyone went there own ways.. i was just trying to do my daily you are right though i do lose dps i've come to terms with the healer changes as well YoshiP is working his butt off gotta cut the guy some slack.. I play both healer and dps i'm going to lose some dps as a healer and we'll see how it turns out i could live with it especially after watching some of those WoW videos seems like more people are joining FF14
Im sure they know why people played it, so they could get the perks of being a healer while just dpsing, letting the fairy do the heavy lifting and tossing out an AOE heal or two. Which seems to be not what they want going forward, they want healers main task to be healing from the looks of it. Dont even try to lie and say that isnt the main reason most people play SCH, though.
@@Shiirow I mained SCH for over three years, and I'll say for me personally, DPS wasn't the reason I picked it up, though I won't deny that's why some do. For me it was about complexity, playing WHM was so mind numbingly boring purely because healing is so easy when that's all you have to focus on and think about. SCH felt more rewarding to me because to actually heal well and put out decent DPS, mean't putting in a lot more effort. Sorry but if you think you can just let your fairy do everything you've no Idea what you're talking about. Maybe in a main story mission, but any actual raid or dungeon at the end game would show you otherwise. The problem here is that if you wanted to purely focus on healing you could play something like a WHM, playing a SCH mean't sacrificing those big dick heals for the risk of more damage, SCH has been ass for a good while now, ever since stormblood hit to be fair actually we've been dying a slow death. But having a different play style seperate to that of the other healers was a good thing not a negative. If they all heal the same why bother ever playing another one? They had a good synergy before, SCH could add DPS, WHM could heal through anything, AST could support either WHM or SCH and provide it's own buffs. Now that synergy is ruined. SCH Dpsing isn't even a problem outside of end game content like savage raids, something not even 5% of the playbase even do, so why that would be a reason to completely change a class/job is beyond stupid in it's thinking. You can't balance an entire job around one specific level of gameplay that not even half the population takes part in. But Yoshi P seems to think that it is I guess, because of people moaning about the same healers or tanks being brought into end game content.
What makes me super bummed about taking away the damage from healers is how much slower the older dungeons will feel like with these job changes. Even if other jobs will do more dps, like tanks, as a healer I am just going to take several lunch breaks and check out.
@M. Woller That doesn't mean they do it. I very frequently have random DPS in duty finder that don't use AOEs for large pulls --- even after you ask them nicely
I feel like their intent was to make Tanks, Healers, and DPS all feel as stated instead of a DPS with some enmity skills, a DPS with some healing skills, and a DPS with DPS specialization. Whether or not they'll be able to do so is left to be discovered.
Yeah, can't have you trying to master more than one button lmao. The casual brains out there might explode at the prospect of any effort being required. How is anyone going to stomach SCH or Ast now lol. Be hard to stay awake.
Yeah, its part of this idea (similar to ESO) that greater freedom from button count = more attention to environment and dynamic action. Unfortunately with the way games have to be designed to compensate for lag and player ability range - this is ultimately nonsense. FFXIV early days had that leg up on other MMO's that were gravitating towards action combat. Whilst they had newer more fluid movement - they lacked the almost chess like decision making and rotations; that whilst sometimes bloaty, did require thought, positioning and execution as well as combo flexibility. This to me (because action in mmo's becomes spammy and lacking + few buttons) was vastly superior to newer games. Now that FFXIV has vauntered towards the similar thing (simplification with promises of fluidity and ease of use) I don't buy it. Because the FFXIV engine simply isnt modern enough. They are giving up what they do best, to appeal to an audience they can't reach anymore. This reeks of corporate greed and not necessarily Yoshi's choice. But I'm disappointed to say the least. The classes were already starting to lose complexity at SB but it was tolerable. Its starting to drift beyond that now with these new changes. Potentially becoming more boring than ESO outside of anything but the most difficult instances.
So sick of people trying to change healing in XIV from how it's been for 6 years. If you want to whack a mole heal and do nothing else WoW is that way. It's got plenty of room. Stop trying to kill unique aspects of XIV. The answer was to lean into that idea like they did with tanks instead of fighting the community on it. Their idea of increasing healing is just going to lead to DF-heroes not being able to get through basic stuff because it's too hard while all the high-end healers are bored out of their mind. The fun in high-end healing was maximizing your efficiency in healing and maximizing dps via that. Making interesting choices between resources. All of that is gone. "You're just overreacting" "there are future patches" - how long do healers have to put up with BS before we can make a complaint without getting gaslit by some members of this community? "Wait for the content" - It's not hard to figure out what my 2 button dps rotation is going to look like. And if the content is suddenly requiring so much healing? Now I'm doing what? As a good healer I'm already strategically using and planning my cds so if I'm resorting to gcd healing to make up the gap - Spamming cure/physick/benefic because they're the only ones that don't truck through my MP? Thrilling. The game is not built for high heal uptime. And it doesn't need to be. "Just go play a dps" - I ensure you that many people will, especially with dancer arriving with a mostly simple rotation and a heavy support kit. Why stay on a role that gets no credit and is also allowed no fun while dps/tanks are clearly the design priorities for SE?
This exactly this. I'm a scholar main and this change to them is infuriating me, especially coming from people who don't even play scholar and think they know the class better than I do, when I have mained it ever since I started playing. It sucks that we cannot voice our opinion on why we don't like these new changes without hearing all of the excuses you listed yourself. It's clear Square doesn't care about the healers who play this game for Shadowbringers, I've watched all of MrHappy's videos on the other class changes and I've been happy with almost everything else that is being changed, besides healers, and I for one am dropping my Scholar main for the first time in my history of playing FFXIV and switching to Dancer. I don't want to have to slog through progression with a stupid 2, 1 spam dps rotation for 10 more levels.
I've waded through about 300 ppl griping about this stuff . No one has worded how I felt so perfectly 100 percent agree with you , I was a sch main who used obey Selene at a raid clearing level and I'm super done healing already for Shadow bringers thank God I can take ai with me on my do ques
I'm happy that WHM at least got some love this patch, so I can't complain, but my biggest qualm is still that they're gutting any form of DPS healers can put out. Heavansward SCH had AMAZING DPS and solid raid support, but no that was too storng so it got a fat nerf near the end of HW/Start of StB. Taking out Aero III on WHM is like a massive "the fuck?" am I supposed to just Patch 1.5 it and afk in between heals now, tossing out some mediocre DPS that's irrelivant to the scale of raid boss hp? Thank god I leveled up BLM, WAR, and MCH to 70 prior to SBr because I have a hard time believing that I'm going to want to stay on WHM after this. Hell, the only reason I may even stay on with WHM initially is just for the easy leveling, since I guarantee you that healer slot is gonna be an instant queue pop now that so many are ditching the class.
I feel like the healers are too simple now. Why would I play something that all feel the same. AST is just a %damage bot, their were tons of ways to affect other members of the party with all the different cards, sure Balance was favored for the party but other buffs were nice. WHM got some neat stuff, still looking a little clunky but its nice to see something I guess. And SCH had a ton of different stuff removed so it felt more like a nerf to the class in general, they felt good when you had the extra DPS that when you were able to help a bunch bursting down bosses/mobs. It just feels more of you're looking at the same class 3 times. Sure one has a party damage buff, one has some decent dps(eventually), and one prevents some damage, but all in all. It's the same.I just don't know about these changes. I'm happy for WHM's finally getting some love. But is all of it good? I can tell people are just gonna abuse the trust system to solo stuff late since a lot of healers will move to classes that are getting more love. It's gonna be more of a chore for people to play healer it feels like. All you're gonna do is spam the same heal, pop some GCDs, then go back to pressing 211111112, heal, pop some GCDs. At least you had ways to change the playing field a bit. I just feel finding a healer is gonna be rare. But who knows it's in progress.
I really appreciate Mr Happy who doesn't main a healer trying to put out stuff for us healers. As for my opinion I am fine with things and agree with some of the stuff Mr Happy said, cuz it is hard to ask 'Do we really need all this healing?' Also one thing I am sad about is that lack of dps we can do in our down time unless what Mr Happy said about it being more rewarding getting our single dps skill off because we are so busy healing. My one big concern aside from lack of dps is the shielding. Now that jobs have access to both regens and shield, when we both use shielding abilities they won't stack right? Ex: celestial opposition and Succor?
I think making a pure healer role is a bit of a pipe dream. The problem with this idea is that essentially you have to make the game very difficult to play if you aren’t constantly healing. What that means is that casual players won’t be able to do the content anymore. Imagine if all content had mechanics (without any breaks) where players are taking damage. Well then it would be pure healing. But... if there is ANY downtime to be had. And gap of time without a necessary healing, players will fill it with dps. Its just a fact of the game. Doing /something/ is more fun than standing around waiting for the next aoe.
Just look at how easy the healing is in his video of the new dungeon. It's just so fucking bad. It's like SE is only listening to the fucking awful 0 DPS healers for their decision making. I had high hope for healers after I Switch to DPS in Stormblood, but this just crushes my soul. Wtf are they thinking with these changes? I don't think they've done this much retarded shit at once since 1.0.
Astrologian old card system was great for me it had depth of thinking and believing in the heart of the cards,I picked it up because I wanted to feel more technical coming as a white mage
As a SCH I need more mana or at least better mana regen. Constantly shielding my group, because that’s the only way to heal as a SCH, totally wreaks havoc on my mana pool.
Wanting healers to move towards pure healing is understable in group content. Increased damage done by monsters so we focus on the heals I'm completely fine with it. However, what would it change if we kept our dps skills? We need them to solo, probably msq and job quests. Giving an option doesn't imply that people will always take it, only when they can. I'm extremely worried about healers for this expansion and I hope they will quickly rework them because as it is now they don't seem fun to play at all.
as an AST main all through SB i really wanted ShB to make all those other cards more meaningful instead of turning them all into Balance? Like idk i feel like in every raid prog i was ever in, actually getting aoe balance up wasn't that big a deal, but i wish there were other things to aim for in other content? Like what if a card was a movement speed increase? what about a card that specifically buffs aoe damage massively? Like that's just me saying random ideas but what I'm saying is i wish they'd have continued to innovate and find more buffs that people would want as badly as Balance instead of just making all the cards Balance? I want to make decisions, and talk with my party, like oh hey you know what, we're going to need to move around a lot during this part of the fight, what if you used a card that turned off sprints cooldown the entire time it was active? Again I'm not saying those are the changes i WANT, but I'm saying i want MORE utility, not less,
Chris James They have 3, they just can use it out of battle. However, summoner has only 2. Summoner also has lost Atetherflow for drain which give 2 aether sacks and an aoe ability that grands 2 aether sack. I’m not sure how I feel for SCH I’m 50-50 with the changes of each class
@@MegaSaSoRi101 Sweetie I know, and that's also not what I was talking about. Back in 2.x, using Aetherflow gave you back 30% of your MP, but then in 4.0 when SCH was given Lucid thanks to role actions, this was reduced to 10%.
I really don't like how healers have been dumbed down. If I've leveled a character to 70, I've probably put dozens of hours into the class. If I can't memorize/learn to use it by then, I need to play a new class
But they were already dumbed down? We spent most of our time trying to be lame duck dps instead of keeping people alive these days. SB has been a garbage experience as a healer so far.
As a WHM main I'm super happy to see the love WHM is getting, but I am very sad to see that the other 2 healers got shafted, but I'm excited for the expansion and I'm not going to freak out until it actually launches and I get to play it. Then I'll gripe and complain if the gameplay isn't up to par. SE has proven time and time again that they actually listen to the playerbase. If gameplay doesn't feel adequate at launch I along with so many others will be voicing discontent and I'm confident SE will hear us and respond accordingly. Also I'll totally be staying WHM main cause by the sound of it a lot of healers are talking about switching mains to dps or tank roles which means I'll get those SUPER fast instant que times and extra rewards hehe :P
I played SCH for the offensive support aspect it let me play out (AST was always too uncomfortable for me but I liked that aspect about it too), and I'm doing the same. They clearly don't want Healers to be offensive supports who control the fight, they want them to be defensive, reactionary, and spamming heals into their Daddy Tank. Well, I won't play that game, so I'll just go have fun shaking my arse for the DRG with the biggest pole instead ;)
Maybe it sounds weird, but i think this ends Astro for me. The decisionmaking was so refreshing and incredibly satisfying to keep going during a run's low points to maximize "luck", even if some cards were like forced low points. I'm not really interested in my healing output, i assume it's tuned to be fine for all content if I gear appropriately - and play well of course. The fun decisions are the utility I can save or help my allies with. I might head over to Dancer though, I really like that idea. :)
Nice, healers in FF are awesome, they worry about everything but their healling output and healling options. They want DPS, they want lucky cards or whatever, but healling they never care. Maybe this game needs a more drastic change to heallers than the one we have now so the ppl playing heallers for all the things but healling go play something else and we get new players on healer jobs that actually play them for the healling.
DakonBlackblade2 That sounds like a recipe for disaster as I can tell you how painful MSQ are gonna get from this. During several solo duties throughout the MSQ, enemies cannot pose a challenge to healers because any damage taken is instantly restored, because if they did damage healers couldn’t just restore instantly, DPSes would go splat trying to clear it. But, if I can just restore all my health instantly, what do I do now? All I’ll have in Shadowbringers until I unlock blood lily is literally a stone V... And an Aero IV, plus the equivalent of two swiftcast holies on a 40 second cooldown with assize. Solo content for White Mage is insufferable already without usable damage tools or distractions. I don’t care if those tools would be useless in dungeons, trials or raids because of incoming damage, but at least give us something that makes clearing solo content not more monotonous than the first encounter with Ifrit. In Scholar’s case, though, it feels like someone just removed Fell Cleave from warrior and said “But you don’t need that, after all, you’re a tank,” then proceeded to also cut out everything except for your most basic combo and replaced all remaining abilities with ramparts under different names. Sure, you’re a tank, your damage tools aren’t really your focus, but if someone removes those abilities and replaces them with a bunch of shit you already had but worse (or just flat out removing them entirely,) previous content will suck ass because now you have 34 buttons-worth of rampart on a boss that barely needs even a single one.
@@TheHazelnoot As WM, right now the only thing you have more than what you'll get in Shadowbringers is Aero 3 (or 2, I forget wich one, the AoE one) and thats kinda high lv. Solo play will never be balanced on any MMO that use the holly trinity system, tanks have a retarded easy time everytime, healers take too long to kill stuff but are immortal and DPSers get the shaft unless they can kill the enemy realy realy fast. And I was obviously suggesting drastic changes to the group content not the solo one, you can't have random overworld mobs hitting like a truck or a DPS will never kill anything alone anymore, it'll become like walking around solo in Eureka. And tanks do need DPS rotations, cause tanks don't tank by standing still, they tank by generating enemity (agro, threat whatever it's called on the different MMOs) and thats gained by dealling damage, even if they have bonus enemity generation they still need to deal decent damage, not to mention off tanks spend much of the fight doing nothing but contributng to the overall DPS. That's not the case with healers, healers should heal, the damage is there to make it possible for them to solo and to fill in eventual gaps when there's downtime, FFXIV created this twisted insane culture where a healer's worth is measured by their DPS and when someone plays a healers to heal he gets yelled at cause he is not DPSing, the content need to change in order to make outgoing damage on group content almost constant and more punishing so healers have to focus in doing their jobs and stop pretending they are DPSers in disguise. We need more phases like NeoExdeath enrage sequence, more fights like the Ochu on Aurun Vale, bosses and trash mobs in dungeons that spit dots on the party randomly, randomly snipe party members, have auras that deal constant AoE damage, etc. And as for scholars, they had way too many buttons, needed some removed, it'd never make sense to gut a healers healling kit, the obvious choice was removing some of the many DPS options they had and bringing them more in line with the other 2 healers.
I find it strange that they would nerf damage potencies instead of just adjusting new content to make healer DPS less effective. Now it just makes all the old, *mandatory* content even more annoying to go through. I remember one instance I went into as an Astro and I could not kill one of the AI healers so I had to leave and change to SCH... I was new at the time so I might have been undergeared but going forward with these changes, soloing as a healer looks very undesirable. Also removal of Time Dilation makes no sense, the skill was fine but they got rid of it and kept Synastry instead? Synastry has the same drawbacks as 4.0 Lilies in that you rarely ever cast Cure/Benefic, it's just all so contradictory.
I'm totally okay with the idea of increasing damage to move healers to spending more of their GCDs on healing. I'm totally opposed to everything about how they're going about doing it. (I apologize in advance for the lengthy essay of a comment.) 1) You don't need to take damage spells off me to convince me to heal more. I will heal an amount of damage approximately equivalent to the amount of damage coming in. I will spend spare GCDs doing damage, and there is no need to make those GCDs less interesting and less impactful. 2) If you want an increased focus on GCD healing, give us new abilities that are powerful GCD heals (and preferably have them be more interesting can a basic cure potency and nothing else skill.) They keep giving us more and more and more oGCD abilities, which is exactly opposite to both reducing action bar bloat and to moving healers to spending more GCDs on healing. 3) I feel that in order to force healers to spend GCDs on healing, they seem to be increasing unavoidable damage, and I fear this moves away from what I love about the game, that it feels like you need more skills, not bigger numbers, to make it through challenging content. 4) Taking away skills we love and use all the time in order to give us new abilities for the expansion is completely counter to any notion of progression. If you want to reduce action bar bloat, take away lesser used spells that are less core to the identity of the job. 5) (And maybe this one won't be an issue, we'll see.) I fear that their constant goal of removing abilities from lower levels in order to add new abilities to the expansion is really going to mess with balance of older content. Are SB Ultimates going to be come easier with these changes? Are they going to become radically harder? I can't say I like the idea of either of these possibilities.
I agree on so much of this commentary. If you want us be healers then make us heal in an organic way, not by stripping options... It's not like we spend every moment in game healing dungeons! I main scholar on one of my two chars, I actively dislike summoner by comparison... Why? Because scholar feels like the ultimate crossbreed of disc priest and aff lock from Wow. Is that bad? Is it so wrong that I feel more empowered and amazing playing Scholar than I ever have with any healer in any other game? That's not because I get to dps some in dungeons, I'm one of those low-mid teir noobs who's only been playing for six~ months, but the little (30-50%) dps I get to do in dungeons feels awesome! More over questing as scholar is shocking fun, far and away more fun than I have had as a healer ever before in anything. I fell in love with the class immediately, but now I'm seeing it getting gutted when I've barely gotten to know it... Further these changes sound like they'll make healing much more samey between the options... How is that helpful to anyone? I don't understand the logic, or why healer dps was an issue to begin with. I can hope the changes to lancer feel better for my other character's main class...
@@ebonyblack4563 The reason they're trying to make the healers fill more similar roles, which I'm actually okay with, is right now there are very set team comps for high end content. You're always going to have a DRG, a BRD, a NIN, a SCH, an AST, and your tanks are likely a WAR and a DRK. This really only leaves 1 dps slot left for all the other damage jobs, and that's rather a bummer for them. Their rationale for some of the changes is that within reason, you should be able to grab the same number of DPS and expect them to do approximately the same amount of damage. They've kinda described it as the content dictates which roles you need to bring, but then you should choose which class to bring based on which you enjoy the feel of the most. As essayed in my above comment, I'm not over the moon about how they're doing this with healers. I suspect over the weeks and months after launch they'll undo a lot of them like they did in Stormblood (taking away a bunch of SCH dots, then putting them right back in, only to remove them again in Shadowbringers.) Mostly I want them to leave in 1 Aetherflow damage (MP management seems like it'll be way harder without energy drain).
@@tremkl so the goal then is to break the current high end meta to open up more oppertunities for a wider range of players. I can respect that. I just don't see why they have to do it be reducing the dynamic feel and sense of variety between the classes. I mean you can make the backend numbers come to level without having the classes squeezed into molds that have ever so slightly different fluff. Most of my experience is with Scholar, but my partner plays all the classes and enjoys the differences between them. I get trying to make the roles all balance out so players can play their favored thing over the ideal meta, but I've never seen a game pull that off why boxing them in rather than forcing it by content demands... I suppose we'll have to wait and see long-term... I just... This MMO felt different, and this is filling me with a dread that some of that is about to get drained away by devs chasing the unicorn dream of making it so there no "best" meta... I hope I'm wrong, I've just seen it kill games I've loved before... Edit: Sorry of that sounds a bit too dramatic or emotional... I've been thru a lot of health problems this year and there's been a lot of nights where this game has been the only fun thing I've been able to do for months... I didn't mean to get this involved, but it happened...
What I dislike about AST going forward is it almost encourages bad play. Currently, you wanted to minimize your single card usage to benefit everyone. Now you do the opposite-throw one of two cards on whichever DPS is doing more damage. While, ideally, you watch to catch the DPS about to go into a burst. I fear more often than note, it'll just lead to one player getting padded, especially with DNC. It's just such an odd decision given this flies in the face of the team gameplay they generally try and promote. You already touched on my other issues (Divination being 3min really feels disengaging). But this another I wanted to mention.
Deja vu. They also had to quickly add back some of Scholar's stuff in the last expansion too. If it gets to the points of the best players constantly healing, how will normal players keep up? If healing gets too hard or too boring, be a lot harder to find a group for stuff.
Does having to heal more make healers boring? Legit question as a non-healer. I mean if you ask me, if you want to deal tons and tons of damage and never have to heal, why play a healer in the first place?
Dharengo the issue is once you know the content and players start getting geared they don't need as much healing. So at first you're healing more but then less and less over time. Especially with the defensive buffs that tanks can give now, it seems like there's just going to be less for healers to do now. It's hard to say for sure though until we actually get there.
@@Dharengo Most players need to be able to clear normal content. Healing isn't like DPS where a minimum is needed but more is always welcome: if you can heal more effectively than most players then you get more downtime as a result. Turning up the healing required either doesn't solve the problem of downtime for more experienced players, or will eliminate weaker players from being able to clear at all. I do think it could be turned up a bit, but it isn't going to eliminate downtime. Honestly, the fun I have in healing is not just making up for continuous damage: healing is fun when things go wrong and triage is needed. When you are making impactful decisions about who to heal/rez and how. The only interesting part about healing autoattack / unavoidable damage is doing it MP efficiently and getting better uptime for my DPS.
Mr.Aptronym That is fair but maybe what they have in mind works better than what you might think. I’ll give you that they might not get it right straight away but I wouldn’t just assume it’s going to be bad.
Tanks weren't changed to be for "pure tanking", so why do the healers have to change for "pure healing"? For tanks, DPS combo is the same as enmity combo now and they never ever need to shift stances. If they wanted more of healers' time to spent on healing, why does that have to necessitate their DPS skills being taken away? They can still be there, you just have less time to use them, and thus it is more satisfying when you DO get to fit them in skillfully.
Let’s be for real. If you ain’t a Sch or Ast then you should be one. There’s 0 reason to be a Whm at this point. Everything whm can do Ast can do with added bonuses. And since all 3 healers can do shields and regenerate now. Theres no reason to be a whm. This was whm chance at getting something that benefited the party just like sch and Ast did/does in the damage department. Yoshi didn’t understand that and instead just attempt to nerf sch and Ast to be on par with whm when all it did was make it clearer what was better to play.all white mage players saying they played it because it was easy to use and cards were confusing/difficult to manage have no excuse now the way they dumbed down Ast cards. Don’t accept the new changes whm got and instead play the other healers and bitch about whm until one of its moves gets the Shake it off treatment. If you SAVAGE white mages want to be taken seriously the only way you will get change is by bitching and posting for changes on the official forum jp and NA to get those changes. Crying on reddit will do nothing. Square will only make changes to complaints if you’re quiet nothing will happen. For you casual whm players this doesn’t concern you and should ignore this.
I think the biggest problem about this entire discussion and I also think it's the reason why these changes have come to happen is due to looking through the eyes of end game raid content as a measuring stick. The problem with that, is such a small minority of the playerbase even takes part in that said content, that it's not even in the double digits for percent, yet they want to base the entire game around that meta. It's so insane. Each healer right now is useful, every single raid or dungeon I go into, I always see an balanced amount. It's easy to say "Why bring a WHM when I could bring a SCH for more DPS though?" but when you realise that DPS is so insignificant that it doesn't matter, because let's face it, you aint going for world first, you're just going for the clear, and in that case you're going to take whoever is more competant at their job. I'd rather the WHM who can heal every time than the SCH who fucks up healing because hes too worried about DPS'ing. And it's only that small minority of people who bark the loudest who make it sound like it's even an issue. It's like not WHM is bad right now compared to a SCH or an AST, in fact I'd say it's better than SCH in most areas. Every healer can clear and beat every type of content out there, and none of them have it any easier than the others at a base level. And even at a high level once again the difference is more or less non-existant, so the fact that it's impacting things so much is beyond crazy. I think all these changes were done either to appease these types of people, or purely because they felt the need to mix things up and ran out of Ideas. Either way, bring back the SCH we know and love, this game will suffer without it. If you make each healer the same, then no one has any desire to play anything different, we might as well all play WHM and just say fuck it.
My concerns aren't generally with new content or abilities, except for sch, but the direction they choose to take and existing content. Having level different characters through the game at different expansions, my biggest concern is squares complete lack of attention to single player duties in older content. They do these overhauls on jobs and completely ignore old single player duty story quests which become more difficult then they originally were due to the tool box completely changing. I'm more worried we will see a complete lack of new players wanting to be healer till after they get a different job to 80. With sch, my concern would be on the AOE spell. If it stays 10ore potency for 200 mpg with nothing else attached to it, it's really not worth the mana to use at that point. I'm hopeful that changes before launch and if not we see adjustments almost immediately. That's pretty harsh in my opinion bit I still want to see the final implementation of the jobs to see how this plays out.
So let me first say: I think the changes to WHM (specifically the reworked lilies) are extremely well done. SE has shown that they can design a healer that does most of its healing via GCDs, while still having minimum DPS loss. Thanks to Afflatus Misery, you only lose 100 potency (in a single target fight; it's a huge DPS gain in AoE situations) each time you use one of the lily spells, and the higher potencies of Dia and Glare combined with Assize more than make up for it. Meanwhile with SCH, it seems like they're completely out of touch with what people enjoy about the job. You don't have to be a SCH main to understand that reducing the number of a job's damaging abilities from 8 to 4 is going to completely turn off players who were attracted to the job in the first place BECAUSE of its relative complexity. They've said that their goal was to encourage all the healer jobs to spend more time healing, but unless they do something like cut healing potency in half, all this will accomplish is make the the healing downtime in fights mind-numbingly boring, and severely limit a good healer's ability to speed up dungeons by contributing DPS. It's safe to say that I'm not the only healer main that'll be jumping ship to tank or DPS until they do some serious work on this.
Exactly. The idea behind the lily system seems smart. You want someone spending GCDs on healing? Give them DPS abilities that work with the way they heal. It is so strange to look at the design direction they have taken for WHM compared to the other two.
So it's been a minute since I looked at the tool tip, but ins't it an AoE 6% dmg buff under ideal circumstances? On top of the 6% buff from cards (again, under ideal curcumstances) that's a 12% dmg buff to select targets in the party (probably dps) and then 6% to the rest? While AoE Balance is a flat 5% to the party in it's current iteration? Not rhetorical questions to sound like an ass, genuine questions because if I'm understanding it properly it seems like the new cards and this ability are better than AoE Balance. I know it has a long CD but you are more likely tossing out cards for the 6% for 100% uptime whereas AoE balance could have never had 100% uptime.
@@graceggale if the dps buff stacks with the other cards then that's better. has anyone confirmed they stack? since everything is a DPS boost it would have been nice if divination was something different.
Scholar needs to embrace it's Nymian roots. To compensate for the lack of dps abilities, I want the ability to brandish a knife to stab mine enemies and embrace my inner tonberry.
Agreed
I know this is a joke but I would actually love it if we had at least one ability with a tonberry theme to it. Why didn't they make art of war a big slash with a tonberry knife, or summon a tonberry to attack in an area?
@@kirbysuperstar9623 Chain Stratagem is literally just "Everyone's Grudge". Closest thing we get, I think.
@@kirbysuperstar9623 or
Yuno: Spirit Dive
YoshiP: no better delete "Dissipation" and 35% sch skills
and give WHM DPS skill 900P
Yes they need a DOINK attack with damage based on how many party members are down!
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I'm sure that some people are happy with the AST changes and it might even draw in some new AST players but as a long time AST player who adored the old card system, this change is a deal breaker for me. I liked the option and versatility of the old system. There was never a point in a dungeon where I wasn't cycling through cards, trying to get the most optimal card, planning ahead for what I wanted, all the while keeping everyone alive and DPSing the enemy. I was always planning and strategizing and I loved that experience which has now been taken away from me and I will never get to experience again unless they reverse the changes.
The old system allowed me a level of gameplay that won't be in the new system. If I had an inexperienced group that often took unnecessary damage, I could queue up an AOE Bole for big damage phases in preparation. I often tried to keep an extended Bole on the main tank at all times. If a boss was close to enraging I'd try to get AOE Balance. If a healer was over healing I'd try to get an enhanced Ewer. Thinking about all this while maintaining my healing and DPS was a very enjoyable system that I will never get to experience again. Sorry FF14 Devs but as I said, this put me off playing my favourite job.
I appreciate you are trying to make the best experience you can that caters to the most people but in this situation, I am the odd one out.
Yeah the AST card changes killed any desire for me to heal this expansion. It was the only healer I enjoyed playing because of the card system.
Ya, you one of the few that's the odd one out. I'm excited for all the changes especially AST, being an AST main. The new card system is way better just because you can actual use all the cards. The old card system, I only used 3/6 cards.. balance, bole, and spear... the other 3 seem like a waste. So I pretty stoked. X3
Nobody use ewer, spire, bole, arrow... for god sake... It's balance full time in every content. Now They made the cards usefull (the whole deck).
they made all the cards worthless... what's the point of a card system if it doesn't really matter what card you draw? Also we arent the odd one out, at best we are split down the middle in this
@@TankHunter678 Same feeling here. I'm happy for anybody who avoided Astrologian because of the old system but are happy with the new system, but weaving between healing, damage, and figuring out what I want to do with cards based on what I've drawn and upcoming pulls was what made it fun. Because there's always a right answer to how to use cards now, it's just something you do because "Hey, damage." and not because I'm looking forward to any of it or even care.
I think the fact that Mr. Happy likes Lord of Crowns over Lady of Crowns illustrates the difference in mindsets between different astrologians. I loved Lady over Lord because it's a nice backup I can use to save someone, whereas Lord seems incredibly dull to me because you just... use it. :| But tbh, some people just love the damage over any kind of utility. People who enjoy the damage will most likely love the new Astro, but I'd rather have the utility.
The fact we even have to discuss what we need to "Give back" to jobs to make them feel better is crazy, we're meant to upgrade with an expansion not downgrade
While i'm not defending the healer changes(unless they make incoming damage much higher) - to be fair, you can't give classes more things every expansion. At some point you just get absurd button bloat and a complicated form of "power creep". I don't know what FFXIV's long term solution to this would be besides just taking+giving constantly, since I can't see them implementing things like subclasses to pick between.
That's exactly it. People are missing the forest for the trees. They're supposed to be adding depth and sophistication to the jobs, not reworking them because they're too afraid of a skill ceiling. SCH has always been the biggest offender to this because it was universally regarded as the deepest and most difficult healer to master, which was actually a big draw to the job. And now they've done it down a tad by oversimplifying their DPS and Aether Flow. All in the name of a manual crit...
A job they've been doing well to (in contrast) has been Paladin. Look at how bland and basic that job was in 2.0 and look at how much they truly EXPANDED on it since then. PLD is a well received job design now. SCH it's going backwards and I'm no Astro fan so I'm not gonna comment on that job. Although I think WHM is finally getting some degree of expansion, so that's good.
What they need to do is make more GCDs to keep the game at a steady pace, rather than keep bombing us with a cluster fuck of oGCDs that are HIGHLY encouraged to be used asap. THAT is what driving up player skill to an uncomfortable degree. But by forging more skills into GCD, it will reduce the oGCD bloat and pressure and it'll save us from devolving out jobs for casuals.
@@Mightfox Oh yeah I totally agree with that, "Upgrade" probably wasn't the best way to phrase it! I meant more like...we're expecting a fresh new experience with our jobs, or something to just get us excited to play again, rather than having things stripped down and simplified. The fairy gauge in 4.0 for example was interesting, they nerfed fairy healing output but added an extra layer to make up for it, which rewarded good play.
It didnt really end up rewarding much buuut the idea of it is what I'm driving at. You can nerf classes without taking away their toys, and I truly feel like they should aim for that approach more. While there are new things that are genuinely exciting about Scholar in 5.0, like the 90s cooldown for a free crit and Seraph becoming our own healer bahamut, the negatives have outweighed the positives too much for it to be a win in my mind.
id like for white mage to have its 6 skills that made it unique back but hey, w.e i guess??
@@Mightfox There is no such thing as button bloat for a pc mmo. You can always find new binds for abilities you need, the problem is when you add controllers into the mix.
They have to cater to console players, that's why the gcd is so low, that's why they removed so many abilities. Keyboard has easily 70-100 binds easily accessible to the hand, controller only has 32.
I think that it's easy to forget about a very important thing when discussing these changes and the lost of dps on healers. And that's solo/story content. It already takes healers much longer to take care of some story quest and instances in the current version of this game, and these changes are only going to make things harder. The trust system might help, but even that will probably only be specific instances. This discussion further solidifies my decision to move away from the healer role until there are changes to help the class.
Exactly and while scholars didnt use there fairies to pull hatred what will summoners do now that your pets aren't targeted. What's titans point , who complained about the pets dying?
@@lalormassarowe6743 a lot of people considering how much of a fuckin idiot ifrit was a majority of the time. And titans only purpose before was just solo play tanking which got to a point where it wasn't even really needed anyway. Now he buffs you with defensives do you don't die
Then he is walking buff? A traditional summoner managed his his pets hp and dps out put. It's part of the shtick will a summoner. But mow hes just a caster who takes aspects from primal. It's more a channeler thana summoner.
@M. Woller I don't know about you, but I used AoE DPS whenever possible and necessary. Especially since story missions seldom have you going against a single enemy. And even if there was a single enemy (usually a boss), it usually take twice or three times as long to take them out. I am not saying that healers need to do DPS levels of damage, but I don't see how taking the AoE's away is supposed to help.
And before anyone says that I should just switch to summoner for these things, I don't usually have the time to gear up 2 classes. It's been hard enough just getting Scholar to where it's at, and even then I am far behind of where I should be.
Scholar had 3 dots and 2 damage abilities, AST had 1 dot and 1 damage ability (and one slow RNG one). Yet they did the same damage in the end. Reducing SCH down to 1 dot and 1 damage ability doesn't mean their DPS is getting lowered. Losing Bane might seem sucky but the AOE dot spread was extremely weak which is why Scholars rightfully got Miasma 2 back. Art of War is pretty much equivalent.
Post #2 on this subject. It's also telling and indicative that of all the media/influencers tour, there was a distinct lack of Healer/healing main presence. That's not entirely Square Enix's fault or the XIV's team fault, but even in the community, there just aren't a lot of streamers/youtubers that 1)Main healer and 2)are famous/visible/well-known. The dev team may not even be aware of how the community feels about healing b/c no one in the community really pays enough attention to the healers and has focused on them long enough to establish a media presence. Maybe Momo or Lukille.
Wouldn't this mean that the healing role itself is unappealing in FFXIV?
@@Dharengonot neccessarily, it just means that healing in general is something that many of the player base do not understand. it's a completely different world than tanks and dps bc they're expected to heal as needed while also pushing themselves to dps and raise raid dps. However i agree to the extent that the healing role itself is not "fun" to watch compared to other roles.
Well personally I think more healing is a good thing. Of course this depends on whether the _need_ for more healing is there or not. If people are taking more damage, those new healing tools will prove very useful.
@@Dharengo i frequently forget cure 3 , as i never realy need it
Brady That’s my point.
While increasing the healing required in dungeons is something I welcome (Mist Dragon is by far the best dungeon boss in SB) it will only ever last until people become over-geared and / or learn the fight (which for post launch dungeons is basically day 1; even normal raids only last a week or two before they are on DF farm) ... so yeah, regardless of their healing tools healers still need interesting DPS tools to use during 'down time' (or simply when solo) and removing them is a huge mistake IMO.
Edit: To say nothing of each jobs' gameplay; e.g. using Energy Drain to burn stacks and get MP was a huge part of what made SCH interesting and enjoyable, as was the interactive AF cooldown, the trade-off of using Bane, and the MP efficiency trade-off of spamming Miasma II, or using it to weave... all of that is now gone, replaced with the most boring AoE anyone could possibly imagine. Not looking forward to Healers in ShB at all.
Not even whm? That's been my go-to job for my daily dungeon runs. Always felt good to play in them.
Sure I guess if you only compare for raid content I can understand your last statement.
Ast would've needed more interaction with the seals. Another skill that's on 60s CD for example, 1 lunar seal = say 250 potency ogdc heal.
2 lunar seals = 400
3 lunar seals = 600
Solar seals gives say 50 potency ogcd attck with 15s 10potency fire aspected dot with potencies increases with more seals
Celestial seals gives you an option to give 5%/10%/20% instant MP
Just something else than a brain dead 2 chances a minute to get a correct seal for divination.
And well yeah sch.. I'm not even going to bother trying to write up on my phone what's wrong with it. Everyone knows it. YoshiPls.
@@Nikzzza yea... let's not even talk about sch...
My poor sch dude... 😭
No, healers need to heal, why is it that FF players are the only MMO players in the world that think that healers exist to deal damage ? This game already offers much better ofensive tools to the healers than any other MMO but players keep wanting more and more, dammit play a freaking bard or something if you want deal damage that much. Also content becomes easy for everybody once you overgear it, its not a healer problem that all of a suden you don't to need to heal anymore, DPS also don't need to get their rotations right and tanks can eat 99% of every mechanic and not die once ppl overgear content, its a problem with how gear progression is designed and with the fact that the synch system don't synch you to a properly low ilevel, you should never be allowed to have more than 10 or so ilevels than the minimum for anything other than savages and extremes in this game, that would at least keep things a bit challenging.
@@Nikzzza While I enjoyed WHM in HW, 4.0 was a massive disappointment and after making the switch to SCH (after they got Miasma II) I just couldn't go back; WHM was too basic, too clunky, too slow, and the less said about Lilies the better. Lilies have been improved for 5.0 (slightly), but losing Aero III sucks (it fits really well between your first and second Holy; but now what, just stand there? cut your Stun short?), and apart from saving a bit of MP (does WHM even have MP issues?) I don't see their new abilities improving much.
NB: My last statement is actually based on dungeons, which is where I think healers will feel the most tedium (and the content I tend to do the most)... Raid wise I suspect WHM will be OK (and would be my choice if forced) as their DPS was mostly just DoT + Single target anyway (and their new mechanics don’t look terrible)… SCH and AST though, I really can’t see myself playing them at all.
@@DakonBlackblade2 Have you ever healed in FFXIV? If you couldn't DPS half the time (or more) you would be standing around doing sweet f*** all. It's not about wanting to 'deal damage', it's about not falling asleep. If they can keep healers busy healing then great, but short of a radical overhaul to the combat and encounter design that simply isn't going to happen. FFXIV is also (like it or not) a SOLO game for a large part, so why do Tanks and DPS get to use an interesting kit regardless of content but healers are stuck spamming 1 button any time they aren't in a group (and even then)?
Ironically enough it looks like a Ewer would have served you very well in that dungeon
Whats a ewer? Me balance, only balance, me damage!
Tell me about it, seems astro will have an even harder time managing mp. We'll see.
Honestly agree. a bole would not have been remiss either.
@@coffeebundeluxe163 I appreciate your profile image!
dude he kept lucid off cd for like 60 sec on every clip
If they want us healing that much, gonna need some better mana management tools for scholar...
It's ironic if they want us healing more considering they just removed 100% of AST's utility cards and went all-in on damage.
And of course with sch losing energy drain.. 😒
@@Ilandria. Nah that makes sense. It's not like AST cards were ever used only on them except for Ewer. They were mainly party buffs, now they are just more consistent party buffs.
sacred soil lasts 15 sec and is usable 15 after the current one is done. You can crit an indom or spread a crit adlo every 90s, lucid is 1 min cd and is usable 40 sec after current one ends, aetherflow gives 10% mp every minute.
Lucid being 1 minute is sufficient to keep any healer at a decent amount of mp, that is if you're not blindly spamming succor every 2 seconds
right? dont forget astro, they took away the refresh on celestial opposition. its an assize now. Also the ewer is gone, lol Gotta laugh from crying.
I’m glad that White Mage is better and I might just give that a shot. As an AST main I was VERY concerned about the MP cap (before someone says “spells are a % of your MP so nothing changed” they aren’t. The cost is based on your level and not your total MP. Gear that increases MP has no effect on spell costs and we have no idea just how effective piety will be at MP regeneration so any statement you make about that “making up for it” is purely speculation) so nice to know there’s at least one healing job that isn’t too effected by that. However I hate everything else that was done to healing. The cap is stupid, AST’s cards are just boring now and it’s a total deal breaker for me and poor Scholar man. The thing that really bugs me about this is when they talked about say the changes with Monk in the live letter it was all about responding to what they players wanted but when they talked about healers it was all about content balancing as if us healer mains are just part of the content. I don’t know about anyone else but it made me feel pretty disrespected.
Kim Jong Tsun honestly its not that White Mage is better, its just that it didn’t get shafted like SCH and AST by all these changes
Here's my issue: For two expansions now (4 years + whatever ShB lasts) Healers have been told "We need to hold off on healers (and tanks) so we can balance them" and this is the result. Homogenized jobs. Dumbed down jobs.
That's not fun gameplay. If I wanted a single DoT and a filler spell, I would have played AST. No AST I've talked to would wish their DPS rotation on anyone because it's bloody boring.
Yoshi-P said, "Trust Me" and we did. Now I don't.
Preach
And sadly it is going to keep happening.
They've finally hit the stage where ESO's spammy 5 button classes are going to be better gameplay lol. The real 'rock bottom' bench mark. Embarrassing. Fun gameplay? Someone must have put out a ban on that stuff -_-
Jeez, you're all acting like the game is doomed... you haven't even played it yet lmao... Chill and wait until you can actually even play it and THEN freak out. No sense in acting like this is the end of the game as we know it when you have no idea what it's even like. SE has done a great job of listening to the discontent of players over the years. I'm certain that if it's not quality gameplay that the playerbase enjoys, they will be quick to address the problems. I mean, we're talking about the game that literally went through a total overhaul from 1.0 - 2.0 here remember? Right now you guys sounds like a bunch of whiney WoW players. SE is a company that has pride in its game and respect for the player community. They haven't given us nearly as much of a reason to be distrustful of them as Blizz has done to their players.
Just complaining "bUT mAH RotAtIOn iS ToO EAsY nOw" isn't a good form of constructive criticism. Healers aren't supposed to have a rotation to begin with. Healers are supposed to be reactive to the situation at hand by casting the spells they feel are most needed to survive the encounter. If you don't like that idea then maybe you're just not meant to be a healer, and that's perfectly fine. You can play a support dps role instead as that sounds more like what you want anyways. Healers are meant to do exactly what the name implies, HEAL. They aren't called "healers" because they have damage spells. If you're bored and find yourself only pressing the same 2 damage buttons then that means you need to step up to a higher difficulty, Savage/Ultimate exist for this reason.
Mattbo9693 fuck off. If we can clearly see that the change will not be personally enjoyable and we will say so publicly so SE will take notice. I don’t need a PHD to predict exactly how I would play all three of these jobs. And it’s less enjoyable than the current healer state. Doesn’t matter what potency changes they add if the fucking role is boring
AST just looks... boring. You get your 3 seals then spam lord and lady... And I highly disagree with people that say they never used the cards before except for balance because they're forgetting how important spire and ewer are for the AoE Royal Road effect. I'm gonna miss the days of drawing a card and figuring out if i want to save it for later, use it now, royal road it, etc. I feel like only bad astros fished for aoe balances, good astros knew how to make what they got work and that was the appeal of the class. The new system is just a brain dead version. And personally, I would've preferred no damage buffs over solely damage buffs. Switch Balance out with something else and make Spire something like move speed. I like the interactivity of specific and niche buffs vs a generic blanketed damage buff.
From feeling like a Yu-gi-oh player to feeling like a go-fish player...
Thank you for this comment daddy Landon.
Tch. Ewer was the most useful for refilling my mp for gravity spam.
I don't disagree with you but at the same time I didn't always like being down on my luck in like VERY NICHE situations where the card literally couldn't do anything for me.
@@narius_jaden215 The fact that you say that the cards you drew didnt do anything for you proves @Landon Call 's point of the bad astros
Think they should have kept the card effects they've always had and add the damage buff and seals on top of them.
To be fair, spire would be useless now, and arrow was only really practical to put on blm. The rest will be sorely missed though.
So make AST even more brokenly OP as it is already? Gotcha
@@ulibarriL I was thinking they might do something like have the regular flat damage increase then have all of the cards move to secondary stats, or maybe all except bole and ewer because tenacity and piety are role restricted. Switch balance to direct hit or determination and Spire to the other one. There'd still be a solid increase in DPS but keep the decision making aspects
spikedwallman Arrow was practical on Sam and Monk also. Anyone who didn’t want a arrow didn’t know how to take advantage of it
@@ulibarriL If the buff was spread like 5% damage buff and 5% that second buff, or even 3% damage buff, I don't think it would be broken. I don't know. That is my opinion.
Still not happy with the cards being all the same! But also the fact they took away aoe dot's... I was expecting AST to finally getting a dot aoe with this expansion. 😔
Do you ever feel like reducing the micromanagement of healers took away from the classes? Mechanical skills never really mattered to lower tier content, but was a big part of difficulty in top tier, tightly tuned content.
@@26183 I feel like it takes away from the job identity abit. Especially ast when all the cards basically do the same now. Sometimes you needed that clutch ewer or that clutch bole in prog or over all dungeons in general. They should have just changed the balance honestly from a flat dps increase. That's all they needed to do, but they went the route of just gutting everything to just focus on that and it's a shame.
@@26183 YES
@@skullofrebellion6653 i think some of the gutting was justified tho. As an SCH, half the skills are stacked in macros. But what kept things interesting and made it have a skill ceiling, was the need to balance dpsing and healing, for tightly tuned dps checks. More skills to manage different situations and more dps skills that have conditions would go a long way in making the class moderately difficult to pick up, but highly rewarding to master.
@@26183 Technically scholar still has their ogcds, and they did add new heals to their fairy. Plus Seraph instant casts a shield constantly on MT - and has an aoe shield for the party. Schs in raids I feel will still be dps while healing with ogcds like they are now. Just the complexity of that dps is really REALLY low.
I miss 2.X healing. WHM and SCH were very distinct, and both were a blast to play for different reasons. Having 5 dots, managing your fairy, managing aetherflow, and trying to keep people alive all at the same time was a blast. And those white-knuckled dungeon pulls with 30 mobs running at you as you impatiently cast Holy were great. Since then everyone has gotten some useful tools but I feel like the individual identity has eroded away. I think I might just level Summoner and pray for SCH changes. It doesn't need buffs, it just needs some of its identity and flavor back.
i miss the leeches too.
my man
I find it a little funny that you mentioned that Scholars would most likely seem fine in raids but less so in dungeons, and that the majority would dislike it. This is pretty much my exact feeling with Astro's cards.
The changes do very little in raids because I'm mostly just fishing for damage there; sure, I won't have Ewer when people take extra damage and I need to burn more mana, but a Celestial Opposition'd Dream usually covers mana concerns; and yeah, I won't have Bole for stack mechanics, but that was more of a backup when shit was hitting the fan.
But in dungeons, I usually used Enhance more than the AoE Royal Road because it's really noticeable for a dps/tank, and didn't always use balance either. Boosted Crit for bards/monks, Boosted Arrow during leylines for Black mage, Boosted Bole for tanks on big pulls: and figuring out what to do with the draws and sleeve-draws throughout the dungeon based on what was coming up next was a lot of fun.
Like seriously, why should I even bother with Seals if I can just Crown everyone for a more constant 2% bonus? If it wasn't for the fact that you can't cast divination unless you have three Seals, I would literally ignore the seals in dungeons, use Crowns all the time for the constant 2% more for the 30 second buffs, and then use Divination with 3% boost for 15 seconds. All you're trading is 3% damage over 60 seconds, for 2% damage over 90 seconds. Oh noooooo... that's basically the same thing which is why they had to artificially lock Divination behind seals... I really wish they just made the cards utility and removed damage boosts in order to make it a fun, interesting and extra utility you can use instead of a chore to keep up with.
Maybe the point was the lessen the skill-gap between good card usage over bad card usage, but I'm not going to stop being salty about this. :( Part of what hurts with this is that while I'm worried about whether or not healers will need to heal, that is more of a numbers change than anything else so there's a much better chance they can actually fix that through adjustments. The Astro's cards on the other hand can't be fixed by just changing numbers, so the prospect of anything being changed seems much lower.
The math is more in favor of a full dvination, the new card buffs now last 15s instead of 30 :(
Assuming you have a melee and a ranged DPS it should be pretty trivial to get the full divination anyway. Always use the first card, 67% use the second, otherwise redraw, and the third you should have redraw changes to burn getting that 33% change. After that you can always spend your next few draws on RR with no penalty at all. If you only have melee or ranged then suddenly you need to start fishing more or playing cards suboptimally and RR won't actually help there anyway. The ranged / melee divide feels weirdly artificial to me.
Besides, the way you close a skill gap is by giving incentives for the players to get more skilled, not by reducing the effects of a player's skill.
Thoughts as a SCH main.
I actually think 4.x healing was the best. You are a healer. You can use your GCD heals if you're not comfortable. You can EXCLUSIVELY use your oGCD heals at high player skill levels. Then, you have your DPS spells to use as much as you can. I actually think putting "pure" healing at the forefront just puts FFXIV healing in line with other MMO, and maybe even lower due to the scripted nature of fights.
As much as I want to be optimistic, not having Energy Drain and not having the trait that shortens Aetherflow cooldown will KILL our MP usage. Back when 4.0 launched, I tried not having Lucid Dreaming in my hotbar and it was miserable. I have a feeling I'll have much of the same experience once 5.0 launches. I hope they'll be able to do something about it in a hotfix after a few weeks. I will be leveling SCH first thing when 5.0 launches, but SE will find themselves looking for healers after the healer mains finish leveling their jobs.
@Khaye Ayubann The reason healing is boring in his description is not job design, it is fight design. If SE wants healers to focus more on the healing side, they should first design fights that require it, then modify the healer kits to assist in healing these newly-designed fights.
Taking away the healer jobs' toys (dps rotations) without reworking their fight design philosophy is backwards and will simply not work.
I loved the micromanaging on AST
There is a flowchart in my head for handling almost all possible scenarios: do I have a Balance? is sleeve draw coming up soon? Undraw this or minor arcana this? How to fish for a Balance or a AOE Royal Road.... They are gonna be obsolete in 4 weeks TwT
lchngh /comfort Honesty people who felt scared to lvl Ast due to cards needn't worry as once you master it it all becomes second nature on who to give, what cards to buff, who to troll with Spire.
@@IaconDawnshire I have NEVER met an Astrologian who trolled with Spire. Most apologize for a mistake with Spire, that's about it. A few bad eggs shouldn't decide the fate of a job.
From my experience, if the player is willing to learn the cards, they follow through. If they're on the edge with cards, they usually can be convinced to continue with some explaining and tutoring. Those that were truly turned away also often weren't fans other RNG designs like Bard and MCH, which can't be helped. I believe the card complexity was fine, similar to how the complexity of Ninja is also fine. If it's your cup of tea, that's wonderful, we welcome that, but they shouldn't design it to be everybody's cup of tea.
Frederick X. Joke > Your head
@@lchngh I agree, I loved the complexity of higher tier content as an AST main. It didn't make it seem like I was just healing and thats it. That being said I can also understand that they wanted more consistency and less rng for the job to maybe make it more appealing as well as consistent? Either way I do wish there was more to the new Seals and Divination Mechanic...
YoshiP: "We wanted to focusing on balancing out healers this expansion as opposed to making a new one."
Community: "Okay... healers are pretty fine as is, but WHM might need some help, understandable I guess?"
YoshiP: "Healers aren't allowed to do DPS anymore, but we're gonna give WHM Foul because it's cool, and we're just going to stritctly nerf the other healers so the WHM doesn't feel bad."
Community: "Wait, what?"
YoshiP: "Also we're increasing overall damage other players take so you're forced to heal now."
Community: "..."
YoshiP: "..."
Community: "but tha-"
YoshiP: "Please look forward to it."
So...healers are gonna heal? Kk
So they are making healers do what they are supposed to do? I dont really see the downside in this. As a healer in Stormblood I felt like I had double duty where I was expected to dps and heal. on current content if I didnt dps there was a good chance the raid would fail outside of MAYBE the alliance raid and normal mode raids.
That was just what i loved with healing in ff14, the double duty, not just wait when you need to heal like in other mmos
@@jarichnox2110 I mean if what weve seen is from the stuff in there we wont be waiting long to heal with new dungeons if they designed them with requiring more healing in mind. We can still dps but we will most likely be healing quite a bit more.
@@valenten89 The problem is that Yoshi-P thinks that it's good game design to fundamentally alter the game because _he_ is unhappy with how people are playing it, rather than any fundamental problems expressed in the game's mechanics. He is the equivalent of a railroading Dungeon Master in a tabletop RPG.
I don't mind WHM getting the absurd amount of healing abilities they are if they actually make you use them.
But that's a very big "IF".
I'm certainly no pro healer, and WHM certainly isn't my main job, but even I'll sit there spamming dps most of the time in raids cause there's nothing else to do when the boss isn't doing some map wide attack unless people continually screw up and use all of my ogcd's, which with how many WHM has is actually kind of hard to do.
the ast was more than just the balance card... it was nice however not the only card that was useful
Man. Didn’t know they removed the Time Mage aspect of Astro. That was a great identity point for the job. And gave a bit of skill ceiling too.
Maybe time mage will be in the next expansion
Thank you for representing us astro mains. Haven't heard any content creator voice the issues of missing the high highs and low lows or that we now have three minutes to get three seals. We're not crying nerf, we're crying boring as hell.
THIS! Everyone I've spoken to seems to respond with "Why do you want to be weaker?" When in reality, I just want the job to maintain its RNG fun...
As soon as I saw AST I was personally disappointed but I'm reserving my judgements until I'm at least a few months in. Trying to go in with an open mind.
@@yoggerzzz I have two concerns about that:
1) We're not talking about balance. I'm definitely reserving judgements on balance until we have some time to use it, though this seems like a definite buff. As far as flavor goes, this is an objective net loss that we really don't need to test to see.
2) Noting concerns about class changes has influenced the devs before. Staying silent or only noting the positive aspects isn't doing anyone any favors in my view.
@@yoggerzzz Good on that, however I'd rather a change come as soon as possible if the role really plays as bad as it looks.
Healers just feel like they kinda got the short end of the stick this expansion. I get the whole idea behind generalizing the roles and making them fit those roles, but I fear that comes at a cost of individuality. If every healer just pumps out tons of healing and does literally nothing else, that doesn't make them any fun to play, which is what i felt a big problem was before with FF14. Everyone wants to play DPS or Tank because those are the cool jobs with the flashy visuals and cool decision making. Now with healers it's just, heal...heal again.....oh hey big heal......heal.
Going more on the specific jobs:
WHM - They more or less the same. I will heavily miss Aero 3, i loved putting that on big groups of enemies. It made me feel like i was actually contributing to help the tank take care of these big groups of enemies. I know now we have Holy which is much more spammable, but still.
SCH - I can't comment too much, cause my SCH's only at level 50 something, but i do agree this one was hit the hardest in terms of "making them a pure healer." Like you commented in the video, they no longer have Bane, which did something similar to Aero 3 with WHM in helping take care of big groups in some way. They also lost so many other tools. And I get that they're finally trying to seperate it from Summoner, but in the process they've made it a lot less interesting. (I also don't understand how Eos/Selene is supposed to work now. Cause the tooltips state you can't put some of their skills on your hotbar, but will they still do stuff automatically?)
AST - This one is the one i feel got hurt the most, mostly cause i fell in love with this job for its aesthetic, visuals, and playstyle WAY back in Heavensward. I really don't like the card changes, and while i can agree on the whole "draw nothing but spires and ewers pain" that was just something that happened that we all rolled with. Now all the cards are identical (barring the melee vs ranged thing) and the whole Seals system just seems not that fun to me. I also hate that they got rid of the Time Mage elements that you also brought up. I loved extending the buffs on people and just micromanaging these things.
Overall, I still feel like Healers got the worst of it. DPS and Tanks are still the more "fun to play" and now Healers have been made worse in that regard by taking away so many tools that made them unique from each other. Now they all can "Heal" and have one or two things that make them unique. I remember looking over the tooltips when the embargo lifted and being more than a little sad that most of their new abilities again are: "Here's a heal...here's another heal....here's your damage spell you've had since level 1 being turned into something else....here's a big AoE heal...here's another." And EVERY SINGLE one of them had something like that.
Obviously, we still have to actually play them to see how they feel. But I don't have high hopes for the longevity (in terms of holding people's interest and overall "fun" of playing them) of these Job changes.
We DID get the short end of the stick, especially since we're about to go TWO expansions now without a new healer and any meaningful changes to the class. I'd kill for Time Mage, but instead we got a new dps class every single expansion. For fucks sake Stormblood had TWO DPS CLASSES and nothing else.
Guess what, Squeenix? Healers are a role too!
Come 6.0 Healers will be removed and we can start playing FFXIVBladeBlackDesert...where all the tanks and dps have to do is dodge mechanics. SE really didnt think this through and making the pure healer argument only promotes bad play from already bad healers who stick to the 'pure healer' mantra.
@Steven Gilmore You could choose just to heal as you have done so in the fast. Now players who want to balance dps/heals only have one choice: to spam their single target nuke and 1 dot. Having the choice to spend time dps'ing didn't take away from your choice to focus on healing.
I have always mained healer in MMOs. The job is healing, and I enjoy it.
@Steven Gilmore This is why I find the game to be boring. Coming from WoW where you did as assigned and all they did was make the game hard enough to require healing to be focused and used boss mechanics to make it so you had stuff to do. In this game you just move side to side really. Make the content harder. I don't want to dps with healers. If I can dps that means the boss is too easy and I am bored. If the DPS needs my DPS to pass the boss they aren't that good. I don't want to DPS with a healer either so I am with you. I main BLM so why would I want those weak DPS over my explosive BLM? And honestly if you don't like it don't heal. I am getting 10 mil extra exp because yall don't want to heal and I'm leveling FAST.
The Time Mage aspects of AST was one of my favorite parts of it.. I really hope that the removal of those types of abilities means we get Time Mage in a later expansion.
Imagine a crossbow healer
Yea, the MP issue is what I am most nervous about for SCH.
That was a huge issue at the start of StormBlood if I recall. So SE might be forced to bandaid fix SCH again, like they did in Storm Blood.
The DPS kit also looks to me as poorly tough out to me. 1 AoE that is more expansive then the WHM one, with allegely more damage output but no additional effects? 1 DoT move that replaces Bio and 2 direct casts single target (1 instant and 1 not instant) that are basically just aditional MP dumps to our already limited resources.
As is the fact that we have no way to dump remaining aetherflows at the end of the CD.
As is the fact that from what i've heard, Aetherflow can now only be used in combat and the stacks will disappear afterwards, tus forcing us to waste 1 CD every fight.
As is the fact that SCH MP regen is designed around high amount of MPs (that design does not appear to be changed) and we will now be capped at 10k MP.
And finally the fact that a trait that was designed to reduce the MP regen issue was removed. It is as if they are purposely trying to make the job impossible or incredibly awkward to use.
I guess as a SCH, I am used to deal with that now, so as I did with StormBlood, I will roll with the punch and try to adapt. Or I will do as most SCH are saying they will do and simply no longer use the job.
We're gonna have to cast Bio one by one on every single enemy in a mob now. And we don't even have Miasma to break up the monotony anymore either. Scholars are like a bard with only Venombite now. We've got 1 non-spreadable DoT, and we've got 1 generic single target attack or 1 generic multi-target attack. Now we are even MORE boring than white mage: either mash Bio or mash Broil/Art of War. Aetherflows will be stuck on excess heals and nothing but.
I main scholar but after this I probably wont. I like healing and found it fun, but with the changes they are making I'm not so sure. I'm debating on if it will still be fun. I hope that the majority of healers that feel the same way will stop playing the healer all together to cause SE to go... oh wait a minute, no ones healing now and people cant complete content.
AHHHHHH now it all makes sense why they implemented the trust system.
I will main my WHM first then I'll have to see how the others healers changed. I would love more challenging dungeons for sure :)
Indeed. The thing about the juggle dps and healing right now made healing too easy . I welcome the challenge
Whm somehow got better...
They basically tore apart and removed what made Scholar good, and gave a few minor scraps in return. Expansion are supposed to progress jobs, not regress.
I'd say a good start to undoing the damage would be restoring Energy Drain, Shadowflare and Bane. Preferably also Miasma.
Also, the whole idea that gutting the dps abilities somehow makes SCH a "pure healer" is false. Only increased healing requirements will do that, of which I'm very skeptical SE can pull it off. Gutting dps abilities simply makes us spam 1 ability during healing downtime.
Instead of this, they should've actually worked on healers dps rotation and improved on it alongside the healing abilities.
Something? Energy Drain.
To actually have an option to dump aetherflow stack.
Also quickened aetherflow and mp regeneration on that back. Were never a problem.
They need to do a few things:
1) Bring back Shadowflare, make it cost 1 aetherflow
2) Bring back Energy Drain, make it cost 1 aetherflow
3) Bring back Enhanced Aetherflow!
It'll fix most of the emptiness.
Shadowflare is an option but yeah, why not.
SCH isn't missing too much but a little bit.
i actually did want skills to go since smn and sch have so many skills that could have just been merged all along... but... a few more things are needed to make it feel complete and it can use aetherflow without needing to heal.
@The Internet is Always Crying I've personally never ran into "toxic" healers who think they are gods or better than others. I've ran into lots of Warriors and DRKs that act that way though.
Frederick X. They would be fine mp wise whilst healing with their fairy, it’s art of war screwing them over. They need to change art of war and give back bane as a gcd. Bane would not be used in raids anyway so it would only be used in dungeons.
Honestly, my problem with the WHM changes is that, like most of the Stormblood changes, they gave it more of things it already has, while not fixing any of its shortcomings. We still don’t have an instant cast DPS filler spell (like Ruin 2) for weaving our plentiful healing oGCDs, we still have no party shields/mitigation aside from 10% DR from Temperance on a 120s cooldown, and we still have no raid buffs or utility. On top of that, changing our DoT to a 30 second duration instead of 18 means we can recast it less often without clipping it, which further reduces our weave windows compared to SB, and with the loss of Aero 3, our DPS rotation is basically braindead (DoT, Assize, spam filler spell for 30 seconds), which is going to make MSQ and other solo content an absolute slog to get through on healers.
Part of why I love healing in XIV is that balance between healing and DPS, and challenging yourself to maximize your healing efficiency so you can contribute more damage to the group. With these changes, not even considering whether or not incoming damage will be increasing in SHB, that seems a lot more difficult to accomplish (due to the aforementioned weaving issues, etc.) and a lot less rewarding when you manage to do your job well. I hope they listen to the community and re-evaluate some of their decisions, because as it stands, I think there are very few healers who are entirely happy with the new reworks.
SCH main here. Art of War as it is now needs more if it's going to make it feel like it's worth 200 more MP than Holy. Give it the DoT that Miasma II had, and it'll be worth it. I am going to miss Bane so much. Can't we get that back? If not can we have something like it, like, I don't know, Manifestation was the FFXI scholar Stratagem that spread enfeebling effects, call it that and have it spread Biolysis and maybe even Chain Stratagem.
That said, I am excited about the new way of shielding and Seraph. I'm going to miss Fey Wind and Fey Caress. Being able to spread Excogs is also great, but we'll need more DPS options if we give people Shields (up to three!) HoT and heal bombs to keep us busy.
I feel bad for scholar mains for all the stripping of DPS stuff they had. It was what the other healers needed to make them as cool as Scholar, Astro sort of, kinda of, not really had it. Apparently their reasoning though is to make the healers more similar and having Scholar have way more DPS options than the others was the easiest thing for them probably rather than grant the other 2 healers more dps. The other reason they said during an interview was that the Scholar and the Summoner were apparently too similar with the DPS they shared so they think now FINALLY Scholar has its own identity away from summoner.
I'd like to see at the very least Bane or Energy Drain come back. But other wise, I'm interested to see how Seraph works and functions. Sure, yes we can't be 'Green DPS' any more. But I play SCH to be a healer.. not a dps with a side of healing. Yet I've been seeing folks screaming to the high heavens that 'Healers suck now'.
If you wanna DPS, play a DPS class. :I
@@novasiri7809I agree
@@pedramcq Yeah that was their reasons, which is why I'm not accepting the changes. These two reasons were never an issue according to me, if anything I actually liked that healers each had their very own quirks and that SMN/SCH shared roots. To me they just saw an issue where there never was and sadly ended up messing great fun jobs. Also, no one could have said SMN and SCH were too alike in SB. They could literally have just keep twitching SMN to what it is now (very well designed job in ShB) and it would have went in the direct they wanted without stripping off SCH...Also, why the hell removing a whole fairy skills? Those should have been kept entirely and left up to the player to choose which they want to put in hotbar if the reason was "button bloat" :/... Or give the aoe esuna to WHM at least.
Honestly very concerned with AST cards. I've only mained AST forever now and have seen them go thru a lot of changes over the years but I've never personally had any issues with the rng of the cards. There was always a use for any card I pulled no matter what. I've always viewed cards as an optional (but very wanted) tool to use in fights not something mandatory. With this new change to cards I feel as tho the dev team is making the damage buff from the cards seem much closer to required rather than just a helpful tool to use. Honestly if people really had that much of an issue with the rng of the cards then they should of simply made the cards more spamable like draw would be up very 10 or 15 seconds instead of 30 to kind of give u the chance to pull cards u wanted more frequently but taking all those different buff away for a smaller damage buff cross all of them and specific to class types is a bit of a nuff to me and doesnt seem to be as fun to use cards as before. But anyways just my thoughts
This exactly
sorry, i'm kind of behind on all the changes happening, what have they done to my cards? all of them buff for damage? i don't understand
@@whitemoonwolf13 The cards no longer do what they did. Now half give 6% to melee dmg, other half gives 6% to ranged. Now has to deal with seals. Basically, they made every card a weak balance...also no royal road, so no altering how cards are applied.
@@Ezviir oh fruck me, that was the whole reason i mained astro, the buffs and timing made it feel way more engaging than press 1 to heal. if i don't buy shadowbringers, can i keep old astro?
@@whitemoonwolf13 I don't think so. The changes are part of the patch, so it will happen to you no matter what. If it would stop the change, I'd stay in stormblood, still need to do the MSQ through there anyway lol
bless. I'm a scholar main and you put all my concerns into words. It really just doesnt look fun to play, and it feels like they just copy pasted whm/ast dps style and tried to apply it (poorly) to scholar which has always been more unique and dynamic. The % of time spent dpsing in dungeons really is like 90% - so i was just so distraught to see them taking away so many of the fun aspects of playing a sch in non raid content. The added healing skills look great, but sch identity is also very tied into their dps capabilities, and I just feel like those have been ungraciously stripped. The higher healing intensity would be a great add to the game in my opinion, but i am a very experienced healer and i could see how that would exclude more casual players. Also holy crap you were only able to do like 10 art of wars before you mp was out completely what the hell is that.T_T
I am not seeing anyone talking about the other big change - that the fairy skills are now PLAYER skills - and subject to the global cooldown. Other than indom, excog and lustrate (all not available until after you start the fight and can activate your aetherflow !) - what ogcd healing skills are left??
If your playing a healing class thats 90 percent of the time dpsing your not a experienced healer. As a healer you dps in the downtime when you have mana and no one needs to be healed. Period. Your worth or your measure isnt measured by your dps as a healer. No one cares. Dps done by a healer is just a bonus nothing else. Cus even if you do awful dmg a good healer is still ganna dps if they can afford to. So that being said a good healer is never not ganna dps when they can so being able to dps less or doing less dps is something only a rookie or bad healer would even think about. Cus you measure a healer off of there healing and utility not there dps output. So unless they took away literally every single dps spell from sch what your saying just does not make sense. And maybe you should play a dps class if you play a healing job based on its ability to dps?
Nichole Detmar in a dungeon I never/very rarely run out of mp. So in general yes I agree with you. You should dps when it’s an appropriate time to do so. But... that’s always in dungeons. I’m not gonna sit and twiddle my thumbs in dungeons. I play a healer because I like to be doing and managing multiple things. Dpsing is fun, is my point, and another aspect of what makes playing a healer fun.
@@nicholedetmar3772 I wish that were true, that dps does not measure a healer. I have been in three raid groups and all of them told me my dps is not enough. "Your healing is great, you just need to dps more"
@@nicholedetmar3772 Try playing at a level above roulette hero and you'll find that yes, healer DPS does matter.
Astro was fine if any rework was needed it should have been the cards them selves. Balance was your ace in the hole. Then spear. If anything those should have been tweaked. Not giving everything a weak balance kinda just kills the point of drawing cards. I used bole alot and arrow. I even used euwer(?) on team that were almost all casters. So yeah, while all the cards went op as straight damage buffs they did have thier place. And scholar was neutered art of war should be ranged and spread All thier DoTs. The class needs more dps besides 2 skills. It was the same issue with astro. Gravity,malfect(DoT), and the star were just not we enough. Lord of road was nice but you didnt get it till around 70. How are these going to work out of dungeons, is dps going to take forever for msq fights not in dungeons? And spamming art of was with its cost is going to get old fast. I loved healing in this game. The only healer I didnt use was white mage and I was working on that. But now... might just focus on my dps classes till healers get... reworked or restored.
Also no ones mentioned that eos and Selen doesnt matter m, they are just a flavor summon now. You take my dps. Away, fine, then give it to one of my fairies that way I have a fairy that dps and one that heals. That way either I can focus on healing and fairy can do some dps or vice versa but dont make the literal pet choices pointless when we cant really enjoy them to begin with, carbuncle, cute. But what about scholars, dresses for the fairest, make it a nice mini thing scholars could do, and summoners need this love too. There are almost 20 primal skins they could use but...just carbuncle... come on.
And for anyone who says they dont need them, why do they keep making chocobo cloths when ppl dont really use them aside from the market.
"New Astro is better" - everyone who never played Astro for more than an hour
@@Balloonbot not really. I play ast daily. I much prefer the new design to the old.
@@ZigZag557 Not sure why, but i do envy you
@@Balloonbot i agree with ya. Bad astro players will like the changes. But the cards before felt like i am actually managing. Now its essentially bingo.
Sch looks empty
It bloody is. Also Aether flow sucks, given you ONLY have heals for it. No more other skills to burn the Aetherflow. Mean you are OOM and have to aetherflow cause lucid is still on CD but you still have 2 stacks of aetherflow.
8:53 Shadow-a'g Two is really excited with the number of potions lol XD
At first I was excited to continue to main sch going into 5.0. The more I find out about the changes the more I feel like trying something else out. If they limit the mp effeciency, please at least let us aetherflow out of combat still to hit those timings.
I cannot stop laughing when the footage of astrologian shows everyone is dying. How ironic.
Mostly a pocket healer during sb but hearing/seeing these changes is kinda putting me off from wanting to play sch and astro even a little
seraph looks amazing though i hope they up its duration and make it our 'bahamut'
Art of war on sch looks so last minute... its basically their pvp knockback animation and why is it 800 mp when whm gets holy for less mp while it also stuns.
Higher potency and instacast
@@ridleyroid9060 yes i know that but spamming it is killing your own mp :(
@@mooki6580 Welcome to WHM since forever.
Still cheaper than miasma 2 lpl
vVAstrAVv this is a person with a crippling miasma 2 addiction it must be hard for them.
Healer changes are so OK that Mr. Happy was gone main healing for the next expansion and after the media tour rapidly switched to a Dancer. Good luck 5.0 healers you're gone need it.
He never mained healing. You cannot double sarcasm, m8.
@Why are you always crying? looll how wrong u are what a dipsht
watching you panic to find raise was funny lol
He moused over it twice too and didn't even notice XD
And then he dragged Earthy Star to his hotbar a bit later... bish please.
And Im supposed to take this as a valid opinion on my main class. What a bother.
Honestly what fixes SCH would be to give back energy drain and the aetherflow trait. I wouldn't even mind dropping it to 50 potency, just give us something to do and think about in lower level dungeons.
I think they took away energy drain because the min/max players will *always* use aetherflow+energy drain on cooldown just as a matter of principal and they *really* wanted to put a stop to that.
Here is one way in which they could have changed energy drain in order to stop the min/max damage aspect, but still kept the ability around:
Changed it to do zero damage, but increased the MP drain aspect of it, and also allowed it to be used on friendly targets. Give scholars less natural MP regen than the other healers, but give them a different tool for MP regen that is both unique and makes players think about what they're doing.
@@JDWonders draining a melee out of mp they do not need would be a really cool trait
You know it's hopeful when the common remark is "It feels ok"
well if people were like 'wow' that tends to die down after a few months were as ok is forever
Hmmm.....I'm leery on what their doing with healers. It almost looks like their trying to strip the two other classes of what makes them unique to fit more with what WHM does but differently. Mp management is going to be an issue with the Astro and SCH, more with SCH than Astro. I'm just very leery about Healer now. But I like how you, Mrhappy, break the class down and state what your thoughts and opinions on what worked and what couldn't work. Sure, Astro is a bit micro management hell for some but getting those cards down is so worth it. Spire, use it for the aoe spread it can use for putting out the next card. Same with Ewer.
Sarah York on SCH mp management I’m not entirely sure it’s going to be as big of an issue, you have a fairy that’s is throwing out heals and you have free insta heals plus aetherflow and lucid dreaming down to 60 secs, sure you don’t have energy drain but now piety increases mp regeneration.You might have to be more mindful then previous but SCH never really had mp issues.
Unless they increase the ogcd healing potencies of ast they are going into 5.0 with less aoe ogcd healing. The nerf of CU and the removal of CO buff duration really is hurting them.
That's a good thing. I know Momo has said that AST ogcd healing was too powerful with the potencies of CU and Earthly Star.
@@allanw shouldn't ast CU potencies be buffed a bit due to how they added a regen to sacred soil? Or i've seen some people think its fine since they made celestial opposition a heal and they shifted some of its power there(healing/shield wise)
Thanks for working your butt off to get this stuff out. I appreciate your thoughts and insight.
I think the the change of pace going towards a more heal-heavy type of content would bring back the... "fear" in doing raid content. At the moment, with HW and Stormblood's content, it just felt like there was no... tension towards shifting an urgency to healers. The incoming damage, while yes was more or less foreseen as a part of their design as being a part of their "puzzlebox", people can only stay interested with variations of it for so long.
There's been very few instances of true randomness aside from maybe a few fights with would invoke true chaos and the "fear" we like to see in raid content. I mean... Twintania at its core was by far a great example of it. Same with T6 coil as a staple. Some of those, while quite a coordinated dance at that, still invoked true randomness - true chaos and "fear" that made it so exciting.
Then again, it depends on what's in store for Shadowbringers... My 2 cents on it.
A prime example of this is how you gear in a static. There is zero consideration for the tanks and healers because all you need is more damage. Letting your AST get their weapon or upgrading their body piece first doesn't serve nearly the same impact as letting a DPS do the same. If we did see a significant upswing in damage, maybe gear decisions have to be weighed more heavily.
Also, I suppose we now know why they didn't have a new healer. They couldn't redesign the role well enough 🤷♂️ so I guess it'll be a real tough slog for healers until the next rework.
Im WHM main. There is no slog. I can heal and do it well and pulling mana of thin air FEELS extreemely powerfull. If the changes are as expected WHM is just fine.
Honestly chalenge to healers only comes in two forms: either you pushing content beyond your wieght or you are in bad group.
Aivaras Braziulis Are you from the future? How is 6.0 looking?
Thin air is shit when you can only burn it on Holy. Now we get Aero III removed and Aero II changed to Dia. Welcome to spamming stone every second of the day
They literally said why they did not make a new healer so ( they wanted to focus on balancing and also never said anything bout dancer beeing a healer) so gj
Healing in general might be ok, maybe it'll even be better than before BUT I strongly believe that it'll just be boring. Yeah, dungeons might hit harder but only up to a point due to overgearing it or becoming better at healing and what do you do after? 1-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-1? Apply a dot and then spam one skill for minutes and hope someone takes enough damage so that you can use some kinda healing skill? SCH at minimum needs one more dot and bane back. And another point is that they can't make dungeons hit too hard because it'll just limit the players who aren't as good, and punish new healers who wants to try out healing. These changes have pushed me away from healing and I probably won't return to it until 5.1 when we get Miasma II back, again. If this was done to any other role we'd have a full on revolt on our hands but because it was done to healers it's ok? No.
Following the announcement of no healer for ShB and now this media tour info, I'm seeing healer mains dropping the role... and honestly I can't blame them. Good thing we're getting Trusts.
It's a bad thing, that they ruined job so hard, people must play with NPC's to get in que. It's almost as they knew how people upset will be.
Most fun dungeon boss to heal was:
"SICKNESS MUST BE PURGED"
Oh fuck that boss altogether xD So many people made my life miserable levelling ast in that dungeon.
Leveling a healer is going to be excruciating after these changes. Maybe they're trying to force us into dungeon spam, but the dungeons have to be unlocked. Is their new game play philosophy level a DPS class first, or suffer? Hardly seems ideal.
I mean, white mage is only getting more damage so...
AST main here, and your mana management in this video scares me lol.
Those worries aside, wish they managed cards a bit more thoughtfully instead of turning them all into weaker Balance.
I would've liked it if Bole got some sort of percentage based reflective damage (damage would cap when it came to bosses of course) along with the defense buff for example. It's not entirely OP, and makes it more desirable.
If not that, I would've just asked for a 2-3% damage buff as a secondary effect to the other cards. It'd be less lazy than what's to come.
I'll miss giving a tank a bole during tank buster phase, or helping someone who was just raised with added def while they get back into the groove. I'm honestly not happy with the changes
Aesthetically it would be cool if bole was reflect and the dmg reflect was comparable to 6% dps increase for the tank while mitigating inc dmg...but here's the dilemma. Moving forward you cant store cards except it appears thru new Lady/Lord cards... so bole rng would be relegated to auto attacks mitigation when you got it and unless it mitigation + added dps is comparable a straight up dps card used on a dps....ppl would redraw it. I'd say the mitigation would have to be about 40% (which is way overpowered). Also now I think on it more we already had this ability in smn's rattan shield...and they nicked it😂. If they brought it bk for bole at least tanks would have a card. I have an idea!!! Bring bk the effects of rattan shield for bole and make it optimal on tanks and change ewer into a healer overall potency preferred buff. Normalize all cards' effective dmg to the dps's 6% cards. Since tanks are about 80%×DPS [normalizes per fflogs] bole would reflects 7% of tanks dps to the boss each time hit plus mitigate 7% incoming dmg if bole were used on anyone else it would be 3% reflect and 3% mitigation. Likewise ewer would buff healer dmg by 12% and healing by 12% otherwise 3% dmg and 3% healing. This would keep all cards useful and overall dps oriented AND be aesthetically pleasing to feel like you were doing more than just rolling 6% and 3%.
I'm a WHM main and honestly, I've never liked SCH. I do enjoy playing AST every now and then for variety, but I'll probably enjoy the changes they've made. I don't play AST enough for all the cards to be second nature, so a simplified card system will probably work fine for me. I do feel for the hardcore AST mains though.
I play AST and I feel like they’re removed all that made the job fun and unique. The different cards had so much utility. TP regen and MP regen when someone dies, bole for damage mitigation and yes balance. I also loved the time abilities to extend your buffs and an allies buffs and all that fun stuff is gone for a one dimensional pure damage buff. I feel like the hardcore raid players like what happy says in the video about some of the cards being useless is not true at all. They’ve just taken away what I enjoyed about the job to satisfy high raid players who for the most part don’t even play the job. Very disappointing
@@ForzaTerra89 I feel you. I'm main AST since class released and I loved the rng part and the fun to strategically use your cards... that was the one fun thing we had..
Don't know if I stay AST for shadowbringer =(
@@rikachan6766 Same.. Mained AST, seems it's time to change.
Healer seems to be more focused on straight healing. Much of what I've heard is that mobs in that 73 dungeon hit harder than normal, but it doesn't let us know what the gear level of players vs dungeon. With the reduction of offensive abilities, it makes it seem like healers might NEED to focus on heals and support spells, perhaps an 80% heal/support, and 20% offense.
I didn’t even know Sch lost the atherflow CD TRAIT OMG NO😫 more bad news
I didnt even know either, till he mentioned it.
Right like why didn't we know this? I need to go back to the vids and check but that's not a small change. Tf man smh
yeah so is summoner. But we're getting it "replaced" by energy drain doing that. Sucks that we have to get into a fight whenever we want aetherflow now tho
@@tatersalad76 wait I'm so confused. Isn't energy drain being removed?
I’m expecting changes to be made to before Eden (Savage) is released or the changes happens with the same patch as Savage.
I'm very disappointed they dumbed down one of the most fun healer to optimize with damage/healing. I hope scholar won't be as bad as It looks
Hard to tell until we get it on live. But a chunk of optimization on the dps side seems like it's just gone, with some folks referring to the AoE replacement as the Art of Bore. An unkind nickname that seems to match a particular level of dissatisfaction.
On the other hand, there may be a subset players who prefer the simplicity. And we have no idea what adjustments will be made based on player reactions and feedback. We'll see in time I suppose
@@tinythinker1162 that's true. I'm withholding my judgment until I play the expansion for myself
They dumbed EVERYTHING down.. so..
It's just disappointing this is the lazy path they chose to follow. The game is completely set in never breaking past its mediocrity and the only change we can ever see going forward is a decline in popularity followed by a decline in development activity. Just disappointing
@@joem3082 that unfortunate thought is already in my head. I started as tank and dps, but I ended up loving healing as a role - balancing your priorities and helping your team in multiple ways (heals, shields, buffs, and dps!). No matter what content I'm in, I had a kit that made every instance a blast. None of the new healers are catching my eye anymore, though. I can't even imagine going back to older content with them and having any fun with it. I'd like to wait until 5.1 at least? But I'm already poking at the idea of leaving the game. A "healing only" healer just isn't for me.
They will still ve good bc of pet and the new super pet is op
I’m kinda thankful we didn’t get a new healer. With the jobs as they are now, a new one would have worsened them all😭
But still it looks like we will get a new one in the future. Just look at the WHM damage Skills now, they don't have anything elemental stuff in it now like before. That being said: they MAYBE plan finally to release Geomancer as natural skill-theme based healer. The question is just when they will do it. I hope they will fix healers finally so that we get a decent balance and then a new healer who fits into this well.
Every non-healer I've spoken with thinks the changes are top-tier, when that's not the case right now unfortunately. Square, please listen to the current healer population before you nuke an entire role 😥
@@DevenThaDude-xb2tm Thankfully, they don't lol
I'm 100% on board with Mr. Happy's last statement. Out-going damage in all content is a complete joke. That's why I stopped tanking in this game, because there was barely any damage to tank. All I had to do was Rampart + Excog or something and I was basically invincible while I listen to the Stone 4 and Broil skill ring off 90 times a second and hit the boss with Souleater combo to infinity and beyond.
With all of these sweeping changes to healers and tanks and even some DPS getting more damage mitigation, Yoshida HAS to increase outgoing damage, or else the entire game suffers. Imagine if in even Ultimate raiding you had Critlo + Dark Missionary + Divine Veil + Shield Samba. The whole party would be damn near invulnerable for like 15 seconds. I'm really hoping that content forces more GCD heals, more active use of the lower tank cooldowns. Healer DPS should, in my opinion, be scarce to get off. The best healers should be using damage spells 30-40% of the time as opposed to the current 80% of the time. Content should push every role in their perspective roles, rather than just pushing every class into being Red, Blue, and Green DPS mains because there isn't anything else to do. It's hard to imagine out of FFXIV, but I hope it becomes a reality.
That being said, running old content is gonna SUCK with all of these new changes. But hey, if anyone who got synched down to level 50 content as a PLD knows, they don't make it with old content in mind.
That, and meanwhile they PUSH us to do older content. It just doesn't add up.
See it's not just the cards they lobotomized on AST, it's the over all utility being gutted. No more Time Dilation, slower Earthly Star, Celestial Opposition being needlessly changed, even our Lord and Lady of Crowns are just a buff. The concept of a "right card" is even more reinforced as all the cards work at their best on a melee or ranged DPS. Your NIN, MNK, SAM or DRG would have to be really shit at their job to give a meager 3% buff to a mage or tank over them. Same for putting a meager 3% on a non-specific job over the 6% BRD, MCH and DNC would've gotten.
I just have to adjust as a healer no biggie. I'm still little on edge on my sch. But will be fun to get my hands on expansion in a few weeks to come. So no worries here. Thanks for the video updates Mrhappy really appreciate it.
My thoughts on the 'Pure Healer' Meme. We can be Pure Healers, and Yoshida can demand higher HPS from the raids, and they can make it so that healing checks are super hard and nigh impassable without constant focus, but none of that necessitates gutting out our DPS Abilities. If for no other reason than to make solo and dungeon content more palatable, keep the DPS abilities in there. Scholar lost Energy Drain, Bane, Miasma, Miasma II, and Shadow Flare. That's too many dam abilities to lose, and I personally that that what we had was perfect as was.
kinda did, ppl would keep playing stupid to try and be a green dps. :/ as a tank main who enjoys sch. I hate how healers heal atm. either near killing me or over healing me to where myt cd don't matter. just to dps.
Funny when beginning of sb, sch lost shadow flare and miasma 2. It is implemented back due to SCH aoe dmg is poor vs other healer class. With introduction of art of war, there is no excuse for this. (Of course MP cost is an issue, but there is still warning number can be changed, thus we need to see when the expansion launch)
i wont lie... the scholar changes scare me a little bit. my baby has been gutted T_T
Its what im scared about too but i am excited for summoner so if they screw my scholar i know what ill be doin=P
I know :/
with all these changes i don’t really know if i should better play astro,although he got gutted too with the card system
Still best healer
Trinth It seems like both Scholar and Astro got hit hard. I main WHM, so I’m really happy that my job might actually be fun soon, but I feel for the other healers. I’ve been reading a lot of discussion about AST cards specifically, it seems like Happy has some misconceptions about the cards and their ‘lack of usefulness’ outside of Balance.
Dumbing down all the healers and changing content so you can't complain about dps cause you're forced to heal 80% of times. Yay, 1 hour DPS queues, 20 min tank queues incoming
Good thing there's the trust system. Almost like they anticipated some backlash huh?
Good, prima donna healsluts were the worst part of the community
Being forced to heal 80% of the time would be great and would actually cause the depth in healers' toolkits to actually be visible. The current state is being forced to DPS 60%+ of the time, like orbonne runs where literally 80% of my GCDs are damage. That's just absurd and its immensely boring, because the healer DPS kit in SB and ShB is super boring- not worth spending so many GCDs over.
@@Mightfox Well I sure hope Square reworks every piece of content to require 80% healing uptime. What's more likely, that they simply don't touch 70 and below content or that it'll be even more boringly easy for healers?
@@fredxu99 Yeah, the pre-70 concern is definitely real. I have a hard time envisioning them adjusting that enough, although they did say they were adjusting how damage formula works, but still skeptical.
But, to be fair, pre-60 content is usually insanely boring for DPS anyway because they lose so many buttons and get a braindead rotation- so it would just be healers' lack of enjoyment at low levels becoming in line with the DPS lack of enjoyment, lol :(
How will the leveling experience be in 5.0 that's what I'm most worried about because you'll have far less healers if alot of people are turned off due to not having a proper damage kit.
Well, on the plus side Scholar and summoner use the same base class for their jobs so you can level summoner tel you need to do a dungeon then switch to scholar then back to summoner as needed and as one goes up so does the other.
Making me millions ingame with the healer cues. Cant get enough materia
Iirc, sch lost miasma 2 on sb launch and then they gave it back... I'm praying we get bane (in whatever form) and energy drain back this time around
energy drain or another skill for mana regen. They gutted sch really bad
Tbh spreading a single dot with Band will be ... just sad...
Its not that us healers hate healing its just at a current point when we get down the healing part we want to do something besides heal like the more experienced healers or tanks that try to not just tank but protect there party or dps that tries to not just dps but buff and support there party.. Using an old example as a Summoner i used to Revive dead party members, keep my Aggro down, give MP to Bards or Healers and DPS.. I did read some of the comments on your Scholar video people saying they did gut Scholar of its dps which you cant really argue with its true even though Scholar now looks easy and more fun to heal.. As long as you dont leave your Tanks with like 1% Health and even then sometimes its ok just try not to let them die.. Please dont force us into a 'healer role only' not all of us are new players..
" Using an old example as a Summoner i used to Revive dead party members, keep my Aggro down, give MP to Bards or Healers and DPS" thats not being more experienced thats just doing what you need to do to be not bad.You didnt just describe a good a player you just described a player doing the bare minimum of whats expected of them to be considered not bad dps...that being said a good healer does dmg in there downtime if they have mana to spare and no one needs to be healed. Always. So unless your a healer that plays healer to do alot of dps(which means you should be playing a dps not a healer) and just overall a bad player and a bad healer the changes dont matter. Cus healers arent judged on how much dps they can or cant do, just on the fact that they actually do it if they can. Only the worse of healers would see there class get so many healing buffs and spells and complain about how there dps was nerfed lul. At least now you know you have no business being a healer and should just stick to dps.
@@nicholedetmar3772 I dont consider myself a bad player but also not the best player either i'm somewhere in the middle i'm pretty sure there are way better summoners then me.. I dont know if your new to FF XIV probably dont play healer/caster dps a lot or maybe you play Tank or like a DPS Ninja but it takes literally about 2 seconds to pass MP to healers, bards, or even tanks sometimes.. i'm not saying this to snap at you or anything like that there's also swiftcast rezzing healers both Mana Shift and Swiftcast can be worked into your own rotation while using a pet.. At most it probably takes about 3 seconds to rez a healer in my last match both healers died and the first thing a monk said was "Great job healers Good Fucking Job" it took me a second to notice because i was listening to music and talking with a friend i tried to stay positive swiftcasted 1 healer then Nidhogg started to target me i resurrected both healers and died in the process we beat it then everyone went there own ways.. i was just trying to do my daily you are right though i do lose dps i've come to terms with the healer changes as well YoshiP is working his butt off gotta cut the guy some slack.. I play both healer and dps i'm going to lose some dps as a healer and we'll see how it turns out i could live with it especially after watching some of those WoW videos seems like more people are joining FF14
I'm so scared to play Scholar. It doesn't even look like they understood why people played it.
Im sure they know why people played it, so they could get the perks of being a healer while just dpsing, letting the fairy do the heavy lifting and tossing out an AOE heal or two. Which seems to be not what they want going forward, they want healers main task to be healing from the looks of it. Dont even try to lie and say that isnt the main reason most people play SCH, though.
Being able to juggle heals and DPS was fun though
@@Shiirow I mained SCH for over three years, and I'll say for me personally, DPS wasn't the reason I picked it up, though I won't deny that's why some do. For me it was about complexity, playing WHM was so mind numbingly boring purely because healing is so easy when that's all you have to focus on and think about. SCH felt more rewarding to me because to actually heal well and put out decent DPS, mean't putting in a lot more effort. Sorry but if you think you can just let your fairy do everything you've no Idea what you're talking about. Maybe in a main story mission, but any actual raid or dungeon at the end game would show you otherwise.
The problem here is that if you wanted to purely focus on healing you could play something like a WHM, playing a SCH mean't sacrificing those big dick heals for the risk of more damage, SCH has been ass for a good while now, ever since stormblood hit to be fair actually we've been dying a slow death. But having a different play style seperate to that of the other healers was a good thing not a negative. If they all heal the same why bother ever playing another one? They had a good synergy before, SCH could add DPS, WHM could heal through anything, AST could support either WHM or SCH and provide it's own buffs. Now that synergy is ruined. SCH Dpsing isn't even a problem outside of end game content like savage raids, something not even 5% of the playbase even do, so why that would be a reason to completely change a class/job is beyond stupid in it's thinking. You can't balance an entire job around one specific level of gameplay that not even half the population takes part in. But Yoshi P seems to think that it is I guess, because of people moaning about the same healers or tanks being brought into end game content.
@@Shiirow The main reason people played SCH was because of it's utility, and vast shielding superiority. AT LEAST in raiding.
Exactly!! They took away all of the fun of planning and calculating your moves.
Thank you for covering this! It's really nice to get a more informed opinion to give some better context to the ability previews.
What makes me super bummed about taking away the damage from healers is how much slower the older dungeons will feel like with these job changes. Even if other jobs will do more dps, like tanks, as a healer I am just going to take several lunch breaks and check out.
@M. Woller That doesn't mean they do it. I very frequently have random DPS in duty finder that don't use AOEs for large pulls --- even after you ask them nicely
I feel like their intent was to make Tanks, Healers, and DPS all feel as stated instead of a DPS with some enmity skills, a DPS with some healing skills, and a DPS with DPS specialization.
Whether or not they'll be able to do so is left to be discovered.
Good god they REALLY are making SCH pay for AAR and HW for some reason. The first round of gutting they took in SB is exactly why I'm dps now.
Yeah, can't have you trying to master more than one button lmao. The casual brains out there might explode at the prospect of any effort being required. How is anyone going to stomach SCH or Ast now lol. Be hard to stay awake.
Paul Birch I had someone on Reddit tell me the other day you should only need one hot bar to play....12 abilities.....
Yeah, its part of this idea (similar to ESO) that greater freedom from button count = more attention to environment and dynamic action.
Unfortunately with the way games have to be designed to compensate for lag and player ability range - this is ultimately nonsense.
FFXIV early days had that leg up on other MMO's that were gravitating towards action combat. Whilst they had newer more fluid movement - they lacked the almost chess like decision making and rotations; that whilst sometimes bloaty, did require thought, positioning and execution as well as combo flexibility.
This to me (because action in mmo's becomes spammy and lacking + few buttons) was vastly superior to newer games.
Now that FFXIV has vauntered towards the similar thing (simplification with promises of fluidity and ease of use) I don't buy it.
Because the FFXIV engine simply isnt modern enough. They are giving up what they do best, to appeal to an audience they can't reach anymore.
This reeks of corporate greed and not necessarily Yoshi's choice. But I'm disappointed to say the least. The classes were already starting to lose complexity at SB but it was tolerable. Its starting to drift beyond that now with these new changes.
Potentially becoming more boring than ESO outside of anything but the most difficult instances.
So sick of people trying to change healing in XIV from how it's been for 6 years. If you want to whack a mole heal and do nothing else WoW is that way. It's got plenty of room. Stop trying to kill unique aspects of XIV. The answer was to lean into that idea like they did with tanks instead of fighting the community on it.
Their idea of increasing healing is just going to lead to DF-heroes not being able to get through basic stuff because it's too hard while all the high-end healers are bored out of their mind.
The fun in high-end healing was maximizing your efficiency in healing and maximizing dps via that. Making interesting choices between resources. All of that is gone.
"You're just overreacting" "there are future patches" - how long do healers have to put up with BS before we can make a complaint without getting gaslit by some members of this community?
"Wait for the content" - It's not hard to figure out what my 2 button dps rotation is going to look like. And if the content is suddenly requiring so much healing? Now I'm doing what? As a good healer I'm already strategically using and planning my cds so if I'm resorting to gcd healing to make up the gap - Spamming cure/physick/benefic because they're the only ones that don't truck through my MP? Thrilling. The game is not built for high heal uptime. And it doesn't need to be.
"Just go play a dps" - I ensure you that many people will, especially with dancer arriving with a mostly simple rotation and a heavy support kit. Why stay on a role that gets no credit and is also allowed no fun while dps/tanks are clearly the design priorities for SE?
^ This
This exactly this. I'm a scholar main and this change to them is infuriating me, especially coming from people who don't even play scholar and think they know the class better than I do, when I have mained it ever since I started playing. It sucks that we cannot voice our opinion on why we don't like these new changes without hearing all of the excuses you listed yourself. It's clear Square doesn't care about the healers who play this game for Shadowbringers, I've watched all of MrHappy's videos on the other class changes and I've been happy with almost everything else that is being changed, besides healers, and I for one am dropping my Scholar main for the first time in my history of playing FFXIV and switching to Dancer. I don't want to have to slog through progression with a stupid 2, 1 spam dps rotation for 10 more levels.
I've waded through about 300 ppl griping about this stuff . No one has worded how I felt so perfectly 100 percent agree with you , I was a sch main who used obey Selene at a raid clearing level and I'm super done healing already for Shadow bringers thank God I can take ai with me on my do ques
Someone doesn't play wow anymore.. lol.. Healers throw out smg in wow too. Unless they are doing stupid high content compared to their gear..
I'm happy that WHM at least got some love this patch, so I can't complain, but my biggest qualm is still that they're gutting any form of DPS healers can put out. Heavansward SCH had AMAZING DPS and solid raid support, but no that was too storng so it got a fat nerf near the end of HW/Start of StB. Taking out Aero III on WHM is like a massive "the fuck?" am I supposed to just Patch 1.5 it and afk in between heals now, tossing out some mediocre DPS that's irrelivant to the scale of raid boss hp? Thank god I leveled up BLM, WAR, and MCH to 70 prior to SBr because I have a hard time believing that I'm going to want to stay on WHM after this. Hell, the only reason I may even stay on with WHM initially is just for the easy leveling, since I guarantee you that healer slot is gonna be an instant queue pop now that so many are ditching the class.
I feel like the healers are too simple now.
Why would I play something that all feel the same.
AST is just a %damage bot, their were tons of ways to affect other members of the party with all the different cards, sure Balance was favored for the party but other buffs were nice. WHM got some neat stuff, still looking a little clunky but its nice to see something I guess. And SCH had a ton of different stuff removed so it felt more like a nerf to the class in general, they felt good when you had the extra DPS that when you were able to help a bunch bursting down bosses/mobs.
It just feels more of you're looking at the same class 3 times.
Sure one has a party damage buff, one has some decent dps(eventually), and one prevents some damage, but all in all. It's the same.I just don't know about these changes. I'm happy for WHM's finally getting some love. But is all of it good?
I can tell people are just gonna abuse the trust system to solo stuff late since a lot of healers will move to classes that are getting more love. It's gonna be more of a chore for people to play healer it feels like.
All you're gonna do is spam the same heal, pop some GCDs, then go back to pressing 211111112, heal, pop some GCDs. At least you had ways to change the playing field a bit. I just feel finding a healer is gonna be rare. But who knows it's in progress.
Casuals cant handle anything more advanced than spamming a single button. Please look forward to it, lol.
I really appreciate Mr Happy who doesn't main a healer trying to put out stuff for us healers. As for my opinion I am fine with things and agree with some of the stuff Mr Happy said, cuz it is hard to ask 'Do we really need all this healing?' Also one thing I am sad about is that lack of dps we can do in our down time unless what Mr Happy said about it being more rewarding getting our single dps skill off because we are so busy healing.
My one big concern aside from lack of dps is the shielding. Now that jobs have access to both regens and shield, when we both use shielding abilities they won't stack right? Ex: celestial opposition and Succor?
It doesn't stack but crit alqo shield is a different shield that does stack with astro shield
I think making a pure healer role is a bit of a pipe dream.
The problem with this idea is that essentially you have to make the game very difficult to play if you aren’t constantly healing. What that means is that casual players won’t be able to do the content anymore. Imagine if all content had mechanics (without any breaks) where players are taking damage.
Well then it would be pure healing.
But... if there is ANY downtime to be had. And gap of time without a necessary healing, players will fill it with dps. Its just a fact of the game. Doing /something/ is more fun than standing around waiting for the next aoe.
Just look at how easy the healing is in his video of the new dungeon. It's just so fucking bad. It's like SE is only listening to the fucking awful 0 DPS healers for their decision making. I had high hope for healers after I Switch to DPS in Stormblood, but this just crushes my soul. Wtf are they thinking with these changes? I don't think they've done this much retarded shit at once since 1.0.
Astrologian old card system was great for me it had depth of thinking and believing in the heart of the cards,I picked it up because I wanted to feel more technical coming as a white mage
As a SCH I need more mana or at least better mana regen. Constantly shielding my group, because that’s the only way to heal as a SCH, totally wreaks havoc on my mana pool.
Sean Moran for healing you will be fine. Dpsing, though.....Art of war is kinda shit.
i love how two ppl die when you talk about astros healing being fine :)
You mean where the tank lost aggro and the mobs attacked the DPS? Or the time where the DPS stood in all the AoEs and got one hit? :)
Wanting healers to move towards pure healing is understable in group content. Increased damage done by monsters so we focus on the heals I'm completely fine with it.
However, what would it change if we kept our dps skills? We need them to solo, probably msq and job quests. Giving an option doesn't imply that people will always take it, only when they can.
I'm extremely worried about healers for this expansion and I hope they will quickly rework them because as it is now they don't seem fun to play at all.
Awesome video, should do the tank one next ;) really excited to see your opinions on the functionality and overall performance on the different tanks
as an AST main all through SB i really wanted ShB to make all those other cards more meaningful instead of turning them all into Balance? Like idk i feel like in every raid prog i was ever in, actually getting aoe balance up wasn't that big a deal, but i wish there were other things to aim for in other content? Like what if a card was a movement speed increase? what about a card that specifically buffs aoe damage massively? Like that's just me saying random ideas but what I'm saying is i wish they'd have continued to innovate and find more buffs that people would want as badly as Balance instead of just making all the cards Balance? I want to make decisions, and talk with my party, like oh hey you know what, we're going to need to move around a lot during this part of the fight, what if you used a card that turned off sprints cooldown the entire time it was active? Again I'm not saying those are the changes i WANT, but I'm saying i want MORE utility, not less,
Man I miss 2.x Aetherflow. Give Scholar that back, the 30% MP recharge
Chris James They have 3, they just can use it out of battle. However, summoner has only 2. Summoner also has lost Atetherflow for drain which give 2 aether sacks and an aoe ability that grands 2 aether sack. I’m not sure how I feel for SCH I’m 50-50 with the changes of each class
@@MegaSaSoRi101 Sweetie I know, and that's also not what I was talking about.
Back in 2.x, using Aetherflow gave you back 30% of your MP, but then in 4.0 when SCH was given Lucid thanks to role actions, this was reduced to 10%.
@@MegaSaSoRi101 smn has 2 stacks but it's on a 30 second cd now and not 1min so you can burn through 4 per minute now
Thanks and now I know
5:02 "AST's core healing still feels fine" ..... as the DPS get deleted lmao
He didn't use lucid dreaming on cd either. But yea looks like ast still has mp problems, just worse in shb
I really don't like how healers have been dumbed down. If I've leveled a character to 70, I've probably put dozens of hours into the class. If I can't memorize/learn to use it by then, I need to play a new class
But they were already dumbed down? We spent most of our time trying to be lame duck dps instead of keeping people alive these days.
SB has been a garbage experience as a healer so far.
As a WHM main I'm super happy to see the love WHM is getting, but I am very sad to see that the other 2 healers got shafted, but I'm excited for the expansion and I'm not going to freak out until it actually launches and I get to play it. Then I'll gripe and complain if the gameplay isn't up to par. SE has proven time and time again that they actually listen to the playerbase. If gameplay doesn't feel adequate at launch I along with so many others will be voicing discontent and I'm confident SE will hear us and respond accordingly. Also I'll totally be staying WHM main cause by the sound of it a lot of healers are talking about switching mains to dps or tank roles which means I'll get those SUPER fast instant que times and extra rewards hehe :P
Ast main here, swapping to dancer.
Yeah, I'm going to give the new AST a chance, but I'm not holding my breath.
I played SCH for the offensive support aspect it let me play out (AST was always too uncomfortable for me but I liked that aspect about it too), and I'm doing the same.
They clearly don't want Healers to be offensive supports who control the fight, they want them to be defensive, reactionary, and spamming heals into their Daddy Tank.
Well, I won't play that game, so I'll just go have fun shaking my arse for the DRG with the biggest pole instead ;)
Maybe it sounds weird, but i think this ends Astro for me. The decisionmaking was so refreshing and incredibly satisfying to keep going during a run's low points to maximize "luck", even if some cards were like forced low points. I'm not really interested in my healing output, i assume it's tuned to be fine for all content if I gear appropriately - and play well of course. The fun decisions are the utility I can save or help my allies with. I might head over to Dancer though, I really like that idea. :)
Nice, healers in FF are awesome, they worry about everything but their healling output and healling options. They want DPS, they want lucky cards or whatever, but healling they never care. Maybe this game needs a more drastic change to heallers than the one we have now so the ppl playing heallers for all the things but healling go play something else and we get new players on healer jobs that actually play them for the healling.
DakonBlackblade2 That sounds like a recipe for disaster as I can tell you how painful MSQ are gonna get from this. During several solo duties throughout the MSQ, enemies cannot pose a challenge to healers because any damage taken is instantly restored, because if they did damage healers couldn’t just restore instantly, DPSes would go splat trying to clear it. But, if I can just restore all my health instantly, what do I do now? All I’ll have in Shadowbringers until I unlock blood lily is literally a stone V... And an Aero IV, plus the equivalent of two swiftcast holies on a 40 second cooldown with assize. Solo content for White Mage is insufferable already without usable damage tools or distractions. I don’t care if those tools would be useless in dungeons, trials or raids because of incoming damage, but at least give us something that makes clearing solo content not more monotonous than the first encounter with Ifrit. In Scholar’s case, though, it feels like someone just removed Fell Cleave from warrior and said “But you don’t need that, after all, you’re a tank,” then proceeded to also cut out everything except for your most basic combo and replaced all remaining abilities with ramparts under different names. Sure, you’re a tank, your damage tools aren’t really your focus, but if someone removes those abilities and replaces them with a bunch of shit you already had but worse (or just flat out removing them entirely,) previous content will suck ass because now you have 34 buttons-worth of rampart on a boss that barely needs even a single one.
@@TheHazelnoot As WM, right now the only thing you have more than what you'll get in Shadowbringers is Aero 3 (or 2, I forget wich one, the AoE one) and thats kinda high lv. Solo play will never be balanced on any MMO that use the holly trinity system, tanks have a retarded easy time everytime, healers take too long to kill stuff but are immortal and DPSers get the shaft unless they can kill the enemy realy realy fast. And I was obviously suggesting drastic changes to the group content not the solo one, you can't have random overworld mobs hitting like a truck or a DPS will never kill anything alone anymore, it'll become like walking around solo in Eureka. And tanks do need DPS rotations, cause tanks don't tank by standing still, they tank by generating enemity (agro, threat whatever it's called on the different MMOs) and thats gained by dealling damage, even if they have bonus enemity generation they still need to deal decent damage, not to mention off tanks spend much of the fight doing nothing but contributng to the overall DPS. That's not the case with healers, healers should heal, the damage is there to make it possible for them to solo and to fill in eventual gaps when there's downtime, FFXIV created this twisted insane culture where a healer's worth is measured by their DPS and when someone plays a healers to heal he gets yelled at cause he is not DPSing, the content need to change in order to make outgoing damage on group content almost constant and more punishing so healers have to focus in doing their jobs and stop pretending they are DPSers in disguise. We need more phases like NeoExdeath enrage sequence, more fights like the Ochu on Aurun Vale, bosses and trash mobs in dungeons that spit dots on the party randomly, randomly snipe party members, have auras that deal constant AoE damage, etc. And as for scholars, they had way too many buttons, needed some removed, it'd never make sense to gut a healers healling kit, the obvious choice was removing some of the many DPS options they had and bringing them more in line with the other 2 healers.
I find it strange that they would nerf damage potencies instead of just adjusting new content to make healer DPS less effective. Now it just makes all the old, *mandatory* content even more annoying to go through. I remember one instance I went into as an Astro and I could not kill one of the AI healers so I had to leave and change to SCH... I was new at the time so I might have been undergeared but going forward with these changes, soloing as a healer looks very undesirable.
Also removal of Time Dilation makes no sense, the skill was fine but they got rid of it and kept Synastry instead? Synastry has the same drawbacks as 4.0 Lilies in that you rarely ever cast Cure/Benefic, it's just all so contradictory.
I'm totally okay with the idea of increasing damage to move healers to spending more of their GCDs on healing. I'm totally opposed to everything about how they're going about doing it. (I apologize in advance for the lengthy essay of a comment.)
1) You don't need to take damage spells off me to convince me to heal more. I will heal an amount of damage approximately equivalent to the amount of damage coming in. I will spend spare GCDs doing damage, and there is no need to make those GCDs less interesting and less impactful.
2) If you want an increased focus on GCD healing, give us new abilities that are powerful GCD heals (and preferably have them be more interesting can a basic cure potency and nothing else skill.) They keep giving us more and more and more oGCD abilities, which is exactly opposite to both reducing action bar bloat and to moving healers to spending more GCDs on healing.
3) I feel that in order to force healers to spend GCDs on healing, they seem to be increasing unavoidable damage, and I fear this moves away from what I love about the game, that it feels like you need more skills, not bigger numbers, to make it through challenging content.
4) Taking away skills we love and use all the time in order to give us new abilities for the expansion is completely counter to any notion of progression. If you want to reduce action bar bloat, take away lesser used spells that are less core to the identity of the job.
5) (And maybe this one won't be an issue, we'll see.) I fear that their constant goal of removing abilities from lower levels in order to add new abilities to the expansion is really going to mess with balance of older content. Are SB Ultimates going to be come easier with these changes? Are they going to become radically harder? I can't say I like the idea of either of these possibilities.
I agree on so much of this commentary. If you want us be healers then make us heal in an organic way, not by stripping options... It's not like we spend every moment in game healing dungeons!
I main scholar on one of my two chars, I actively dislike summoner by comparison... Why? Because scholar feels like the ultimate crossbreed of disc priest and aff lock from Wow. Is that bad? Is it so wrong that I feel more empowered and amazing playing Scholar than I ever have with any healer in any other game?
That's not because I get to dps some in dungeons, I'm one of those low-mid teir noobs who's only been playing for six~ months, but the little (30-50%) dps I get to do in dungeons feels awesome! More over questing as scholar is shocking fun, far and away more fun than I have had as a healer ever before in anything.
I fell in love with the class immediately, but now I'm seeing it getting gutted when I've barely gotten to know it...
Further these changes sound like they'll make healing much more samey between the options... How is that helpful to anyone? I don't understand the logic, or why healer dps was an issue to begin with.
I can hope the changes to lancer feel better for my other character's main class...
@@ebonyblack4563 The reason they're trying to make the healers fill more similar roles, which I'm actually okay with, is right now there are very set team comps for high end content. You're always going to have a DRG, a BRD, a NIN, a SCH, an AST, and your tanks are likely a WAR and a DRK. This really only leaves 1 dps slot left for all the other damage jobs, and that's rather a bummer for them.
Their rationale for some of the changes is that within reason, you should be able to grab the same number of DPS and expect them to do approximately the same amount of damage. They've kinda described it as the content dictates which roles you need to bring, but then you should choose which class to bring based on which you enjoy the feel of the most.
As essayed in my above comment, I'm not over the moon about how they're doing this with healers. I suspect over the weeks and months after launch they'll undo a lot of them like they did in Stormblood (taking away a bunch of SCH dots, then putting them right back in, only to remove them again in Shadowbringers.) Mostly I want them to leave in 1 Aetherflow damage (MP management seems like it'll be way harder without energy drain).
@@tremkl so the goal then is to break the current high end meta to open up more oppertunities for a wider range of players. I can respect that. I just don't see why they have to do it be reducing the dynamic feel and sense of variety between the classes.
I mean you can make the backend numbers come to level without having the classes squeezed into molds that have ever so slightly different fluff. Most of my experience is with Scholar, but my partner plays all the classes and enjoys the differences between them. I get trying to make the roles all balance out so players can play their favored thing over the ideal meta, but I've never seen a game pull that off why boxing them in rather than forcing it by content demands...
I suppose we'll have to wait and see long-term... I just... This MMO felt different, and this is filling me with a dread that some of that is about to get drained away by devs chasing the unicorn dream of making it so there no "best" meta... I hope I'm wrong, I've just seen it kill games I've loved before...
Edit: Sorry of that sounds a bit too dramatic or emotional... I've been thru a lot of health problems this year and there's been a lot of nights where this game has been the only fun thing I've been able to do for months... I didn't mean to get this involved, but it happened...
What I dislike about AST going forward is it almost encourages bad play. Currently, you wanted to minimize your single card usage to benefit everyone. Now you do the opposite-throw one of two cards on whichever DPS is doing more damage. While, ideally, you watch to catch the DPS about to go into a burst. I fear more often than note, it'll just lead to one player getting padded, especially with DNC. It's just such an odd decision given this flies in the face of the team gameplay they generally try and promote.
You already touched on my other issues (Divination being 3min really feels disengaging). But this another I wanted to mention.
Deja vu. They also had to quickly add back some of Scholar's stuff in the last expansion too.
If it gets to the points of the best players constantly healing, how will normal players keep up? If healing gets too hard or too boring, be a lot harder to find a group for stuff.
Does having to heal more make healers boring? Legit question as a non-healer. I mean if you ask me, if you want to deal tons and tons of damage and never have to heal, why play a healer in the first place?
Dharengo the issue is once you know the content and players start getting geared they don't need as much healing. So at first you're healing more but then less and less over time. Especially with the defensive buffs that tanks can give now, it seems like there's just going to be less for healers to do now. It's hard to say for sure though until we actually get there.
Bob Smith You’re assuming a lot. You don’t know how much damage will be flying around.
@@Dharengo Most players need to be able to clear normal content. Healing isn't like DPS where a minimum is needed but more is always welcome: if you can heal more effectively than most players then you get more downtime as a result. Turning up the healing required either doesn't solve the problem of downtime for more experienced players, or will eliminate weaker players from being able to clear at all. I do think it could be turned up a bit, but it isn't going to eliminate downtime.
Honestly, the fun I have in healing is not just making up for continuous damage: healing is fun when things go wrong and triage is needed. When you are making impactful decisions about who to heal/rez and how. The only interesting part about healing autoattack / unavoidable damage is doing it MP efficiently and getting better uptime for my DPS.
Mr.Aptronym That is fair but maybe what they have in mind works better than what you might think. I’ll give you that they might not get it right straight away but I wouldn’t just assume it’s going to be bad.
Tanks weren't changed to be for "pure tanking", so why do the healers have to change for "pure healing"? For tanks, DPS combo is the same as enmity combo now and they never ever need to shift stances. If they wanted more of healers' time to spent on healing, why does that have to necessitate their DPS skills being taken away? They can still be there, you just have less time to use them, and thus it is more satisfying when you DO get to fit them in skillfully.
Let’s be for real. If you ain’t a Sch or Ast then you should be one. There’s 0 reason to be a Whm at this point. Everything whm can do Ast can do with added bonuses. And since all 3 healers can do shields and regenerate now. Theres no reason to be a whm. This was whm chance at getting something that benefited the party just like sch and Ast did/does in the damage department. Yoshi didn’t understand that and instead just attempt to nerf sch and Ast to be on par with whm when all it did was make it clearer what was better to play.all white mage players saying they played it because it was easy to use and cards were confusing/difficult to manage have no excuse now the way they dumbed down Ast cards. Don’t accept the new changes whm got and instead play the other healers and bitch about whm until one of its moves gets the Shake it off treatment. If you SAVAGE white mages want to be taken seriously the only way you will get change is by bitching and posting for changes on the official forum jp and NA to get those changes. Crying on reddit will do nothing. Square will only make changes to complaints if you’re quiet nothing will happen. For you casual whm players this doesn’t concern you and should ignore this.
I think the biggest problem about this entire discussion and I also think it's the reason why these changes have come to happen is due to looking through the eyes of end game raid content as a measuring stick. The problem with that, is such a small minority of the playerbase even takes part in that said content, that it's not even in the double digits for percent, yet they want to base the entire game around that meta. It's so insane. Each healer right now is useful, every single raid or dungeon I go into, I always see an balanced amount. It's easy to say "Why bring a WHM when I could bring a SCH for more DPS though?" but when you realise that DPS is so insignificant that it doesn't matter, because let's face it, you aint going for world first, you're just going for the clear, and in that case you're going to take whoever is more competant at their job. I'd rather the WHM who can heal every time than the SCH who fucks up healing because hes too worried about DPS'ing. And it's only that small minority of people who bark the loudest who make it sound like it's even an issue. It's like not WHM is bad right now compared to a SCH or an AST, in fact I'd say it's better than SCH in most areas. Every healer can clear and beat every type of content out there, and none of them have it any easier than the others at a base level. And even at a high level once again the difference is more or less non-existant, so the fact that it's impacting things so much is beyond crazy. I think all these changes were done either to appease these types of people, or purely because they felt the need to mix things up and ran out of Ideas. Either way, bring back the SCH we know and love, this game will suffer without it. If you make each healer the same, then no one has any desire to play anything different, we might as well all play WHM and just say fuck it.
My concerns aren't generally with new content or abilities, except for sch, but the direction they choose to take and existing content. Having level different characters through the game at different expansions, my biggest concern is squares complete lack of attention to single player duties in older content. They do these overhauls on jobs and completely ignore old single player duty story quests which become more difficult then they originally were due to the tool box completely changing. I'm more worried we will see a complete lack of new players wanting to be healer till after they get a different job to 80.
With sch, my concern would be on the AOE spell. If it stays 10ore potency for 200 mpg with nothing else attached to it, it's really not worth the mana to use at that point. I'm hopeful that changes before launch and if not we see adjustments almost immediately. That's pretty harsh in my opinion bit I still want to see the final implementation of the jobs to see how this plays out.
So let me first say: I think the changes to WHM (specifically the reworked lilies) are extremely well done. SE has shown that they can design a healer that does most of its healing via GCDs, while still having minimum DPS loss. Thanks to Afflatus Misery, you only lose 100 potency (in a single target fight; it's a huge DPS gain in AoE situations) each time you use one of the lily spells, and the higher potencies of Dia and Glare combined with Assize more than make up for it.
Meanwhile with SCH, it seems like they're completely out of touch with what people enjoy about the job. You don't have to be a SCH main to understand that reducing the number of a job's damaging abilities from 8 to 4 is going to completely turn off players who were attracted to the job in the first place BECAUSE of its relative complexity.
They've said that their goal was to encourage all the healer jobs to spend more time healing, but unless they do something like cut healing potency in half, all this will accomplish is make the the healing downtime in fights mind-numbingly boring, and severely limit a good healer's ability to speed up dungeons by contributing DPS.
It's safe to say that I'm not the only healer main that'll be jumping ship to tank or DPS until they do some serious work on this.
Exactly. The idea behind the lily system seems smart. You want someone spending GCDs on healing? Give them DPS abilities that work with the way they heal. It is so strange to look at the design direction they have taken for WHM compared to the other two.
I only do not jump ship to a dps or tank is because of my raid group tbh
As a WoW healer switching to FF14 being a pure healer feels like old hat to me.
wouldn’t mind the card changes so much if Divination was a better ability.
So it's been a minute since I looked at the tool tip, but ins't it an AoE 6% dmg buff under ideal circumstances? On top of the 6% buff from cards (again, under ideal curcumstances) that's a 12% dmg buff to select targets in the party (probably dps) and then 6% to the rest? While AoE Balance is a flat 5% to the party in it's current iteration?
Not rhetorical questions to sound like an ass, genuine questions because if I'm understanding it properly it seems like the new cards and this ability are better than AoE Balance. I know it has a long CD but you are more likely tossing out cards for the 6% for 100% uptime whereas AoE balance could have never had 100% uptime.
@@graceggale if the dps buff stacks with the other cards then that's better. has anyone confirmed they stack? since everything is a DPS boost it would have been nice if divination was something different.