213 - Rubbing Out a High Gloss Finish
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- Опубліковано 1 січ 2014
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One of the biggest challenges woodworkers face is getting a nice smooth blemish-free finish. Let's face it, very few of us have spray booths and our shops are far from ideal finishing environments. It's to be expected that our finish will nearly always have dust and other pieces of debris residing within it. Fortunately, there is a way that just about ANY finish can be improved and it happens well after the final coat is applied. That process is called rubbing out.
Rubbing out is nothing more than abrading the surface until it's nice and smooth. Take it to a high enough grit and you'll be polishing the surface to a super high gloss. Stop sooner at a lower grit and you can achieve the perfect semi-gloss, satin, or matte finish.
The key to this process is letting the finish cure. Even after a finish dries to the touch, there is an additional period of time before the finish is up to full hardness. The harder the finish, the better it responds to rubbing out. Yes, this terminology is very hard to discuss with a straight face. Anyway, here's a general guideline for wait times.
Lacquer, Shellac, Water-Based Finishes: 1 week
Oil-Based Varnish: 2 weeks
If you want to play it safe, wait 3-4 weeks for all finishes. Since finishes can differ dramatically from brand to brand and formulation to formulation and environmental conditions also play a role, you'll want to err on the side of caution giving the finish plenty of time to cure for best results.
Rubbing out is a three-step process that does require some specialized tools and materials. There are also lots of options and alternatives in this arena, so don't be afraid to experiment a bit after doing some additional research on your own.
Stage One: Leveling
No matter how good a finish looks, it will always have surface imperfections. To level things out, I like to sand by hand using a piece of plywood faced with cork. I use 320 grit wet/dry paper and a bit of soapy water as a lubricant. The soapy water helps prevent sandpaper clogging.
Stage Two: Smoothing
Once the surface is leveled, we can proceed with abrading the surface with increasingly higher and higher grits. I like to use Festool Platin Abrasives:
500: www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002...
1000: www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000...
2000: www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002...
Unfortunately, it seems you can only get these pads in the large 15-packs which are quite expensive. As an alternative, try Mirka Abralon pads: www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001...
These pads work with standard hook & loop random orbit sanders and do the work of smoothing the surface quickly and efficiently. Once again, soapy water serves as a lubricant.
Stage Three: Polishing
The final steps of the process bring the surface to a super deep gloss. White there are traditional abrasive powders that you can use for this purpose, like rottenstone and pumice, the newest formulations in automotive rubbing compounds work like a charm. You might want to experiment with various brands but the one I decided on was Menzerna, primarily based on Jeff Jewitt's endorsement of the product. I use two formulations: IP 2000 and SF 4000.
To apply the polishing compounds, I use Surbuf pads. These soft foam pads fit right onto standard hook & loop sanders. It's a good idea to dedicate a pad for each specific compound so as to not end up with grit contamination. After the surface is fully polished, you should be left with a deep rich gloss that has no equal, other than French Polishing perhaps.
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I'm totally sold on this channel. These are my favorite videos. Dirty jokes, WoW shirts, and professionally produced DIY knowledge all without any social awkwardness or hostile behavior. Good job Sir..... Good job.
Thank you sir!
Woodworking with The Wood Whisperer JamesMurphy i completely agree with and support this comment
+The Penis Whisperer
im kidding, i subbed btw great vids bud!
+JamesMurphy he just needs some diablo and starcraft shirts and he's all set but something tells me he probably owns them. lol.
That bookmatched top is so beautiful. This is why I love woodworking. The art that I can hold up at the end of a project and say, "I made this." Makes it all worth it.
ok for those who don't know, the term "Rubbing Out" is a common auto body repair term on the painting and detailing side of the repair process. it means exactly the same thing as what is displayed here in this video to "Rub Out" surface imperfections. Well done Marc :D A great job as always.
of course! what else could that phrase possibly mean.
"Rubbing out is a great way to achieve a perfect finish" classic
Or at least a happy ending.
Mind in the gutter nice lol.
LOL!!!!!
It’s pretty accurate
lolololol
A friend of mine made my husband and me a 12" round Doctor Who clock for Christmas this year (wood burning). It's absolutely beautiful and I decided I needed to find a way to put a finish on it so it wouldn't get messed up in any future moves. So I take to the internet to find my answer.
And I stumble upon this channel.
Let me just tell you.. the fact that you're wearing a Warlords shirt in this video has me completely sold. Nothing but WoW nerds over here! Even the friend that made the clock and her husband play.
Thank you for the tutorial!
You do nice work. I am a carpenter and have been building homes for 20+yrs but now I'm getting into furniture and cabinet now. I am just about to finish a giant ottoman tray someone asked me to make and I'm about to finish it this week and this video just popped up
I watched this years ago. After screwing up a lot of finishes since then this makes more sense. It takes a lot of mistakes for me to really understand that finishing takes patience. Drying is not the same as curing. Thanks TWW
Rubbing out to a perfect finish is a relaxing way to pass the time. But this video makes me want to get into woodworking.
Thanks for the post! I am ready to start buffing and so far the humidor is coming out great!! I have some slip feathers and there was tearout that didn't get totally filled, but otherwise, no visible flaws - and I haven't seen a doctor yet.
Thanks for the tips. I'm in the process of refinishing a maple snare drum and want a professional high gloss finish. This looks to be the path to my goal!
Great job! It reminds me of when I used to work at a car body shop. Exact same process.
as always, impeccable...outstanding
bravissimo !
Great video Mark!
Nice finish on the box and a lot of work but worth it.
Thanks Mark,
Roland
Finally that joke was given the time and attention it deserves. LOL I want to re finish an old 1920's piano so I'm trying to watch all your videos. You do a great job at this. thank you
thanks for the tips, I've been making crokinole boards and I'll try that polish out to get that nice smooth finish.:)
I'm getting into woodworking and I love your channel. By far the most entertaining and educational woodworking tutorials. I found this video informative, but based on my custom auto refinishing experience, I'd go easier with the sand paper. 320 is very aggressive... too aggressive for finish work. I'd flatten with 600 - 800 grit, wet sanding and being very careful with the edges. Something the size of a humidor can be flattened very quickly wet sanding with 800 and then you won't have to deal with deep sanding scratches and can remove less material in the subsequent steps. From there I'd continue with 1500 thru 2000 grit BY HAND until I had an even, satin finish with no detectable sanding marks. I'd only use the power sander with the rubbing compounds. Emphasis at all stages needs to be put on being careful not to burn through the edges! I can guarantee 500 grit and a power sander will blast through an edge for all but the most experienced and careful refinishers. You obviously got a great result with your method, I just think it would be trouble for a more inexperienced hand and my suggestions would be safer. I know the pain of "going too far" oh too well. Just my 2 cents.
yes you make a valid point John C. but with 11 coats of clear on the piece there is plenty of room for any mistakes. Being mindful of the edges nearly anyone can do this. especially using a standard orbital sander that has only a 2 to 3 mm orbit. You will have great control and achieve a great result or you can do it all by hand and still get the same result. it just takes far longer and much more work to achieve.
thanks for sharing, hopefully one day i'll have a project i can use this on, this is also pretty much the same thing you do on other painted surfaces, like a car
I freakin love this guy! A perfect blend of comedy and actual info. I nearly pissed myself in the beggining....
Odd thing for me to say, and I swear I’ve never said it, but I appreciate you for showing us how to rub one out!!🤯🤣
Great informative video, thanks!
Great video! 👌🏼
Finally a video about rubbing out our wood to a glossy finish.
Thanks, very informative, and explains why my lacquer doesn't yet look as shiny as expected. Just wish I'd found this video re the pore filling, before I sprayed the lacquer on.
Yes, I agree. His videos and comedy are the best. You just can't beat it.
That finish turned out great. The box/grain is really nice as well.
Got the veneer from VeneerSupplies.com. Some amazing figured woods for sale there!
What I wouldn't give to be able to afford those beautifully grained woods...and purpleheart...and I'm in love with burled maple and quilted maple and bird's eye maple...and zebrawood and all of those other exotic woods they don't even sell where I live. I love your inlay videos and, well, really, all of your woodworking videos. Thanks for making them. You make stuff really look nice.
BTW: Like everyone else, I'm hooked on your videos. Great Work !
Thank you, I needed that pause. ;)
You're a pro. Maybe the best woodworker in the entire you tube universe
I use to do it this way years back. Switched to 2K Automotive clearcoat and can apply all coats needed one day then cut and polish the next day. Now finishing projects only take 2 days.
what is 2k auto clear coat?
How you manage to do everything you do, and apparently play WoW is pure inspiration to me, thanks!
hes an actor. the way he says Festool... and 320 grit....
@@MRcaterpus haha 😂
Yes. Make sure it’s fully hardened before you start rubbing out and achieve the perfect finish.
I would like to try this just to see how much I can make a mess of it. But I was wondering if I can use this method and apply lacquer onto of a danish oil finish? Wonderful job and really enjoy your informative videos.
I want that humidor!
perfect music behind the filler applications!
You earned a subscription, sir!
Incidentally, I have a porter cable orbital buffer. (meant for 2 handed use on cars/boats) could I use sanding pads with it for projects like these? I build drums as a hobby and need to cut back on the time it takes to sand by hand!
Yes he did a beautiful finish on a small box or surface. All the processes were done properly and in order. A couple things if you don't get all those 320 grit scratches with the 500 grit (600 is more common or available). No matter how much rubbing you do they will show in the final polish. The same goes for each step or grit. On a small piece with small surfaces this is easily accomplished. Like most of these videos they are done on small flat projects or sample boards. It is not that simple on a dining table tops, pianos or large wall panels (30" x 60") or non flat surfaces like serpentine surfaces or surfaces that include raised panels, recessed panels or mouldings. Those mentioned are a much higher degree of difficulty, not impossible, but no comparison to what was shown.
would recommend a pressure feed spray gun like in this video or a gravity feed for poly finish?
Love the Shirt and the video
Thank you for your videos. I am suscribing right now
Great Video. I have a high gloss wood speaker (with a good amount of built up finish) which has some very slight scratches from cleaning. I bought these speakers used and would really like to clean up the top of the speaker. Would the final buffing stage be a reasonable approach to removing very minor cleaning scratches? Thanks in advance Brian
Looks great, what speed do you run your orbital at with the surbuf pads? Highest, high, medium or low?
Having watched this after I have already applied some coats of finish using two coats of Minwax Spray Fast Drying Clear Gloss Poly and two coats of General Finish High Gloss. Is it possible to rub this out? What steps are needed to achieve a high shine? More coats of finish, then buff out with a fine polishing compound? Could I use any type of automotive polishing compound such as Griots?
Thank you
Mac,
If one uses poly - either urethane or alkyd - can one rub out the finish in any way?
you got it. rubbing out is always the way I get a high gloss finish on my guitars .
3:12 Everything about that backyard looks like an Arizona backyard.
Can you do something like this on varnish? Or does it only work on lacquer?
could you bake the shells or box to speed up drying process if you had an appropriate room?
Very helpful and a funny man
Can you believe I'm 36 years old and have never rubbed out.
I want to make a 4 foot wide record player stand with vinyl storage underneath. Nothing fancy, just a rectangular box probably made out of 2x4s and metal legs. Where i do want to go all out on is the stain, clear coat & polish.
In the video you mentioned that you sprayed something like 10 coats of laquer. Do you have to sand in between the coats at all? or do you spray a cota allow it to then and then foloowed by more coats without sanding?
Hi, I have a question about a MCM desk that I have. Beautiful piece but has very cheap looking wood grain thick laminate (glossy) top. Is there a way that I can get the gloss off and still have the top look decent without painting etc.? thanks
Would this technique at the end also work on an epoxy? if I was using a clear epoxy would that shine it up to a high gloss?
Im just wondering if anyone can give me some advice. Im looking at creating my own computer desk, but I want a solid white high gloss finish. What kind of wood/material would I need, which paint would I use, and now would I get a high gloss finish. I was considering just spray painting it white and sanding heavily to smooth it out, and then spraying a clear coat over it again, and again sand with a 240-500-1500-2000 grit and then finish with a polish. Would this be the best method? I've not really worked with wood for about 5-6 years, and back then that was in school
Hello, can I ask is it possible to use a high gloss finish on inlay? Just wondering because different woods have different characteristics, so may need different degrees of polishing. Thanks
i have a question regarding the soapy water you used to lubricate the 320 grit sandpaper. What type of soap are you using? i.e. Dawn. also what is the ratio of soap to water?
Thanks in advance, and keep up the great work on the videos!
Preston
WoW! I'm not into games anymore but you should make a wood model of some of the characters of this game, it will be a hit for sure!
does work on a rubber boot ?thank you
A buffing wheel on a bench grinder also works well for polishing odd shaped pieces. Like if you needed to polish your knob.
If you do make some "World of Woodcraft" projects, please let me know. I'd like to share it with my co-workers... at Blizzard. ;)
I miss the Acrylic based lacquers. They were mostly used for high gloss automotive finishes.
I probably should have sanded between coats of poly, but I didn't. What I have now is a surface that is smooth in most areas but has pock marks in spots as well, and no matter how hard i try with the 320 girt wetordry paper, they remain. Thoughts?
what's the sander/buffer you are using ?
I use a similar method but with 0000 SW and then past wax.
Do you recommend lac sanding sealer as a pore filler?
Could you use Arm-R-Seal for a rubbed out finish? Are water based top coats better then oil based for a rubbed out finish?
Nice
it seems that the sp4500 is discontinued? are you still using these same products? is there any other polishes you recommend?
I am re-veneering the wood in my 64 Jaguar in Burl Walnut, what would you suggest as a poor filler, and where can I get the polish you use in your video. I am after a HIGH GLOSS finishThanksGary
how do you rubbing out a high gloss finish for curved surface?
That's why I do satin finish. Done in a few hours.
Do you think I could use this technique for Waterlox? I've read too many complaints about the satin finish, so I'm only using original. Maybe put on an extra coat, then wait 4 weeks? Also, do you need to sand with the grain, or does it not matter at this point because it's on top of the varnish? And can I use my palm sander- the 1/4 sheet kind? TYSM!
Does anyone know if this process will work with Tried and True oil finish?
How i make high gloss finish... it does not matter if its colour or lackquer
You dont need pore filler. There are lackquers for open pores and closed ones. Use lackquer for closed pores
1.Sand with 180 and apply basic layer 2 times. You need to sand between layers with 320. Do your best here!
2.Sand basic layer first with 320 and later with 800. With 800 try to remove 320 grid lines. Try not to oversand! If you do you need another coat of basic layer.
3.Apply final coat of colour or lackquer and sand with 800 and then spray one more coat. You can do it more times...(sand it between coats) but its not needed to add more material if you ask me.
4. wait to cure 3-5 days depends of material
5. sand with 1200 grid > 2000
6. Polish with 5000 paste. Most of work is here.
Important tip: Dont sand with hand! Use disksander on flat areas!
www.dropbox.com/s/26jsedl1s8o27s1/DSC_0252.jpg
Love all of your videos! Thank you. Question: Can this same technique be used with a poly-urethane finish? I just finished a nice little keepsake box and applied 3 coats of poly-urethane. Now I want shine and polish it.
Can someone answer this lol. I’m wondering the same
@@patrickmagno2677 I think it would be difficult. Lacquer melts into the previous coat and creates one solid finish. Poly doesn’t do this and is multiple layers. So you can accidentally buff through a layer and it creates witness lines.
Wats the model name of the air compressor you use
How durable is lacquer, and is it water resistant? I want to build a telescope with this finishing process, but it would be subjected to the occasional freezing temps, frost, and dewy conditions.
I want to check on the price of these two products your recommend ( IP 2000 and SF 4000). once I came to I realized that my eye were not deceiving me. On amazon.ca these list for approx $120. So that is out of the question. Do you have any alternatives you would recommend.?
awesome video! Thanks for posting. Question: Did you thin the lacquer before you strayed it? IF so, what ratio did you use? Thanks again.
+Micheal Beers nope. Thinning is counter-productive when you're looking to build a lot of coats.
Thanks for the info my man! Have a great day.
That is goddamned gorgeous.
I'm working on six panel solid doors I have about 4 coats of polyurethane on one of them can your buffing out work on doors also.
Damn he could have his own tv show...
cool & smooooooooooth.....
What server do you play on?
I have been putting polyurethane over dewed shellac for years. Here's why: I first use Watco danish oil (natural color) applying it let it rest for an hour, then wiping off; then I do it again. I seal with shellac, then finish with poly.
What I really wish people showed is how they do the narrow sides. I always struggle not to round over thing sizes with all of this sanding and buffing. Heck, even in the initial sanding when I am using a wood block or a foam one for the light passes.
No one ever shows that part. Everyone just used a ROS on large, flat surfaces.
Omgosh you're hilarious. Though I prefer paste wood lube when rubbing.
I've watched this before, but I guess I'd be curious for a before and after. What does 10 coats of lacquer look like vs what the final product looks like? I'm sure the feel is a major difference, but I'd love to see that.
10 coats of gloss laquer looks great. Just time consuming especially doing all sides.
WOW
Hey Marc. Thanks for all the info you provide online. Cant get enough. So, what would happen if you didn't fill the wood grain with wood filler? Would the finish not seep in and fill the poars? Thanks.
It would look pitted. Those pits would just look weird in a high gloss finish. Hard to explain but it just looks bad.
Is this level of finsish sustainable for an extended period of time in high traffic areas?
So the slurry is still here. My Dr said I will live. I agree, more rubbing to to a good finish!
I know that puns are considered the lowest form of humor but I have discovered (and amassed data) that it requires the highest form of intelligence to create 😊 - great job on the polish too.
Would this be good for a table top?
Great work! Just a info on humidor build, its not advisable to put any king of sealer on a humidor as it gets pretty moist inside :) and for longevity its better you leave the wood to breathe. If you live in a climate where the humidity outside is same or similar as the one inside the humidor than you can do whatever you want otherwise its a no no. Been there done that kind of advice...
Now there's some great advice
Marc, Here's a little tip. Instead of using a putty knife to apply grain filler try using an old credit card, ATM card etc,etc. It won't scratch the wood like a putty knife can. I build, repair and customize guitars and when it comes to grain filling that's all i use.
I've been using them to stop parcel/duck tape rolls from sticking to themselves, another good use for them :)
I always rub one out until finished. Usually takes 2 minutes with the Sunday paper JC penny magazine
where to buy that last 2 finishing compound? hope to get that link.. thank you
+Terrence K Head to the original article I linked to in the description. www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/rubbing-out-a-high-gloss-finish/
Would a method like this work for a marine application with a finish such as epifanes?
It might not yield great results. Outdoor finishes are usually more flexible by design. Buffing works best on hard surfaces. Think of it in terms of candy. Which one is likely to produce a high shine, hard candy or taffy? So I'm not saying it can't be done, but it's probably going to be a lot trickier and you might not get the level of clarity you want in the final appearance.