That was an F-14 enthusiasts dream hearing two former RIOs (masters of their craft) chat about RIO and TopGun stuff. Very enjoyable! Thank you gentlemen!
Love your stories, Ward. Your stories actually inspire me to become a pilot for the NAVY or a WSO when I grow up, I'm also currently 11 years old. You also remind me alot of my grandpa who has sadly passed away at the age of 59 3 months ago. I hope you're having a good day.
The overwhelming sense that comes across - and anyone planning to follow this pair along an avaitor's career or anything else where you really need to be world class would be kind of smart to bear in mind - is that *when you are absolutely excellent it looks easy* . BUT That is because *the imense workload that underpins it is not visible at the time you see it* .
Man what a humble , modest guy. Remember now, these guys really are MONSTERS lurking in the skies allowing us all to lay our heads on our pillows every night, free of worry. It would be very easy to become arrogant, uppity if you will I would imagine? Yet they are do very modest and ooze PROFESSIONALISM. Thanks to you both, and to all who serve. Straight badass aviators who put their lives on the line for us, repeatedly, daily! Your guys are nothing short of amazing really
It's a big part of training to keep fighter air crews down to earth, because otherwise they get complacent. If you think your the best, you don't see the room for improvement, and you'll never get any better
No matter where he is Ward always make his talks feel like they're at his kitchen table or living room. It makes what he presents so accessible for the rest of us.
Ditto to some of the other comments. This was a great interview and I could have listened to the two of you recount your experiences for a few more hours at least. Thanks, Ward, and enjoy your time at Tailhook this year. We look forward to more juicy content from the convention soon!
the riff at about 13:00 is worth the price of the ticket. Comments from the instructor are meant to make the student work harder, dig into it, build awareness, so as to prevail in the real world, NOT to demean the student. This was good.
Really liked this episode and that it gave your timeline of when you met him, I was at MCRD San Diego then. I only had conversations with Marine fixed wing pilot FACs while I was out with the forward observers calling in fire missions during training from the mid to late 80's. I was always surprised by how humble they were, it was a good feeling that we had each other's back while we were on the ground during in my case training at Twenty Nine Palms. Hated that place when I was there but I can look back to good memories of it now.
Mooch, you're doing excellent work with this channel. The two camera angles, the attention to audio with multiple microphones, the mixing, compressing editing etc. You're interviewing is getting better as well. Btw, I have your first book, Punk's War and I'm looking forward to digging into it. Keep it up, boss. Glad to be here.
As a former U.S. Navy Electronics Technician, it's really a treat to see what was going on in Naval Air at that time as I had just graduated from boot camp in San Diego and was in BE/E in San Diego. And my Uncle was a Naval Aviator but we never talked much as we both had a lot on our plates. Thanks to both of you for this Post. Bravo Zulu.
Hi, I watch your channel and enjoy it very much. I just watched this episode and memories came flooding back. I was and OSC and an AICS # 072 who was honored to have attended TOPGUN class 01-84. I was able to learn so much there specially in the TACS trailer. I had no idea the gymnastics you all went through until then. I learned when to shut up in an engagement, and when to break in (very seldom). I had no idea what going to TOPGUN would mean to my future. I was stationed on the USS ENTERPRISE at the time and my guys deployed with me. They had told the admiral about me and he came down and observed me several times. He then made me fly to all the ships in Battle Group Foxtrot that had an AIC and then give them thumbs up or down before he would allow them to have planes to (play with) use for intercepts. I was a docent at the National Naval Aviation Museum where I was able to meet many old friends from the pilot/RIO side. My call sign was SPYDERMAN. I went through with Dragon Tyler, Check Svatek, Bad News Barnes and Butts McLihenny. You may have know them. I was informed that to date less than 500 enlisted controllers have gone through TOPGUN. WELL THANKS FOR THE MEMORIES. Pete Howe.
Ward, what an amazing conversation.this never fails to excite me. It truly is amazing to here the stories, combined with a watered down plain English, easy to follow narrative. To hear about the education, and collaborations, debriefs. It becomes a lot easier to understand. How and where our military grew from. In these unsettling times around the world. It truly is comforting for a civilian to see are tax dollars are at work, and absolutely are well trained dedicated and professional service personnel covering our 6. Thank you and all our service members for your service. God bless the USA.
If I recall correctly from my Grumman days, there was the practical issue of a load of phoenix was too heavy to recover the aircraft in many configurations and require tossing these expensive missiles into the drink. Therefore, they didn’t fly them too often unless indicated threat required it.
It's too heavy to land on the carrier with 6 and limited to very little gas with 4. So they rarely flew with 4 and never flew with 6 unless they were not landing back on the carrier.
I had a chance to meet a former squadronmate of Dave's earlier this year. The guy was a former airframe mechanic and had stories about the F-14 and his cruises for days (literally). Loved listening to everything he had to say. Apparently he and Dave still keep in touch and a message was passed letting Dave know a tomcat fan was found out in the wild, which he was very happy about.
I have never been a instructor at anything. But then again I try to tell people how to do things. I am not a know it all, and I am still learning every day, but almost 60 years old, I have seen and done things. The hardest thing to get past, is ego's.
Terrific interview which again reinforces a previously made point regarding how important RIOs were to the success of the F14. I wish I properly understood that back in the day when I was denied a pilot role due to less than perfect eyesight and offered the opportunity to pursue a RIO job. I’m very thankful to Mooch for this channel and his colleagues for their perspectives, all serving to enlighten us on life in the F14.
@Ari GSD I understand that now and totally agree. But in the late 70’s when this was a life choice, a single-seat platform pilot told me: “You know why pilots wear big watches? So they can hold up their arm and ask, ‘Hey RIO, what time is it?’” That, unfortunately, made an impression on me and I now know nothing could have been further from the truth. I shared this with Ward when I had a chance to meet him in San Diego last February and he groaned. Such is life.
I enjoyed reading all the books by TOPGUN folks, and found it awesome how they all aligned. Thanks for all you did for us, and thanks for the great books!
The F14 on the flight deck with its wings swung fully back (storage) chained down with a full load of stores was the wickedest looking fighter plane ever.
David; Thanks for the update on John "Windows" Sill. He rose far above his nugget cruise where we were paired and went on to have a distinguished career. Way to go John!
CONSTELLATION CV64 - was mentioned so many times - this is a thumbs up for everyone. I was on my lasts months on CV64 as the man mentioned he was VF24 April 1981 he then went on CV64 Sept 1982 then went to Ranger , on CV64 he wanted to be a good RIO, John Silo call sign Window, JAWS is the awesome pilot, etc. Must of been on CV64. Bottom Line: WE ARE USA. We all love this country, the same country that GEORGE WASHINGTON did his DUTY, the FOOT SOLDIERS who did their DUTY, every US AMERICAN who did their DUTY. I am so proud of the USA, like Lee Greenwood stated. OUR HEART IS CLEAR, OUR COUNTRY, GOD BLESS THE USA.
I also did the 83 Ranger cruise as an AQ1 in VF 211 big sister to VF 24, In 85 or 86 served under C0MMANDER. Window Sill in 211 as an AQC left the fighting Check mates in Sept 87 after the would cruise on Kitty Hawk, as an LDO Ensign. Commissioned by Commander Flats Flannery
You RIOs should be proud! You are orchestrating the fight and you gotta be more physically prepared to pull Gs because you don’t get as much anticipation as the pilot. Correct me if I’m wrong on that. It’s amazing what you all did. I love listening to this stuff!
Thanks for this. BIO's a great listen of course, and it was a nice reminder on the importance of crew coordination, and how tactics continued to evolve to keep pace with new and existing threats.
It's amazing, I KNEW Mooch (had) to know Bio (and Crunch) because they're from the same era, but I was so hoping for an upload like this!! It's my era as well aboard the Kitty Hawk (85-87) in the MARDET.. thanks so much Mooch.
I was a pilot in your squadron during the previous deployment as the Maintenance Officer. In fact, I was responsible for changing the name of the squadron to Fighting Renegades. John "Windows" Sill was my RIO during this deployment. I often wonder how his career progressed. From your description, the answer seems extremely well. Do you know a way I could talk with John? Thanks!
Great video! I disagree with the Navy's attitude about only using the Phoenix to defend the carrier. Granted, it was the most expensive air to air weapon in the fleet and not to be wasted, but training should have taught pilots how to effectively use every capability they had. The Iranians used the Phoenix very effectively in their war with Iraq; had our Tomcats been equipped with up to date IFF, F-14s could have participated in fighter sweeps during Operation Desert Storm. I agree wholeheartedly with the criticism, "Why are we only training against the MiG-17 and MiG-21?" During the Samarrah Air Battle, two MiG-25 Foxbats fought two f-15s to a draw and one F-15 was damaged. Had a Tomcat been there, equipped with Phoenix missiles, both Foxbats would have been turned into confetti.
@@virgildailey1970 I was a shipboard IFF tech and I assume something could have been different in aviation. Was it a MKXII set? The interrogator on a ship was likely nothing like an aviation interrogator for example. The only aviation IFF equipment I ever saw was on a helo and it was the transponder only. I wouldn’t even know what is on a jet. And thanks for the snark too, shipmate.
@@foxbodyblues6709 He really should have said NCTR, but since he didn’t know that, he said IFF. F-14A at the time didn’t have the level of NCTR required for BVR PID, whereas the F-15Cs and F/A-18Cs did have at least 2 levels of NCTR parameters necessary for legit PID. He also made the assumption that F-14A/AWG-9 was a superior BVR platform compared with the F-15C/APG-63(V)1, which it wasn’t, especially over land. That didn’t come until the F-14D/APG-71, which was an APG-63/70 variant.
When threat forward-quarter missiles became more capable, the Navy realized that the Phoenix was essential for superiority. I discuss this evolution in my book "Tomcat RIO."
My respects Sir. Thank you very much for this video. It's a very interesting subject, in fact it's so interesting that i can see randomly this video (and the one on how to kill bandit...). You are both brillant at air combat and are true speechmaster. That's great moment to hear you. You make me understand that it's far better to be two with an AWG 9 than one with a APG 81. Thank you both Sir. Very respectfuly
Thanks Mooch another great episode on your channel, I Love Bio and Crunch their F-14 Tomcast was outstanding...! You should have him back for a storytelling episode that would be very entertaining and good for a few laughs as well.
In reply to Avengell: The U.S. Navy got the concept of the landing deck on an Aircraft Carrier to be at an angle to port, and the gyro-stabilized Frenell lens “meatball” to show glide slope, from the British Royal Navy. Also, the Harrier AV-8A was originally British, with McDonald-Douglas greatly improving it as the AV-8B. The JayHawk trainers are adaptations of the Hawk trainers which the RAF use for their Red Arrows display team. The RB-57 Canaberra of the Vietnam War era was originally made by English Electric. It goes both ways, with countless U.S. aircraft being used by our allies. One really good concept, which the U.S. Navy rejected, was the Ski Jump on small carriers to launch deck roll jet aircraft. The British, French, Spanish, Italians, India, and Russia all use a Ski Jump on their Carriers. There was a really great article by a USMC test pilot in USNI Proceedings about 35 years ago, where he gave all the advantages of the Ski Jump for a “Harrier Carrier” after being on exchange with the British. Why we rejected the idea, I don’t know. Maybe a case of “not invented here.”
I worked with Tumor for may years at NGC on Fire Scout and BAMS/Triton and saw his phots, made when photos were on film and before photoshop. I am pleased you recognized him for his art.
Yes, he's one of the greats. His photos are well represented in the book "Grumman F-14 Tomcat: Bye - Bye Baby...!: Images & Reminiscences From 35 Years of Active Service," by Dave Parsons, George Hall, and Bob Lawson.
As an amateur photographer I would like to say that Bio’s images on F14 Sunsets were incredible, some of the best shots of the F14 out there, so much so that I did screen grab one and I use it as a profile picture on a certain social media site. I hope Bio doesn’t mind, now I know who took it I will attribute it 😉 great Vlog Mooch, could listen to you both all day 👍
While watching the interview, the phrase "Officer and a Gentleman" entered my mind. That, in turn, reminded me of something a college professor said about how to become a top tier college or university - admit only the best and brightest and then give them what they want in terms of knowledge and turn them loose. A bit tongue and cheek but points to the question is it the institution or the student? I went to high school with John Sill (Window) and he was a scholar and a gentleman then. Both of you are clearly gentlemen and represent the institutions to which you served with distinction.
I remember hearing this discussion at MIT. Is the student selection the key (ie they’re great with or without MIT)? Or is it that MIT makes them great ? (I think it is both. I suspect the Top Gun is the same; a reinforcing loop).
Got to see Bio speak in front of one of the test and evaluation Tomcats. What a great setting He was entertaining and he stayed to talk after. Such a nice guy and so personable.
It would be interesting to have a comparison in how the role of the backseater has changed over the years. How navigation and radar systems have developed and are much less manually demanding to use and how the role has developed in to being something of a mission manager.
1986 was a lifetime ago. "Top Gun" now means a whole 'nuther s***load to me present day, after listening to you guys give the real gouge. And I watched that movie NINE times in three weeks, when it released, and how many more on VHS afterwards. What I'd give to go back and watch it those first few times with the eyes I have now. I must again show my immeasurable gratitude to Bio and other Tomcat crew for the fantastic photos we all enjoy today. They are the Bible for my a/c modelling. As others have said, I could listen all day to you chewing the cud on tactics and tech. VR Risky.
Just a Hyd Mech for F-4' j did a highly publicized 1981 Med Cruise on USS Forrestal we shadowed the Nimitz during the 1st Gulf of Sidra Incident US 2 Libya 0
Ward two American heroes who have pulled eight gs and were the second scanning eyes for the bad guys, and a team for democracy and justice. Great show SEMPER-FI
I respect and love everyone who ever served in the military. Many of the military occupational specialties had very little risk, but pilots, RIO's, infantry, and many others were very high risk. During the Vietnam War I joined the Marine Corps to avoid being drafted. Best decision I have ever made, but that is a very long story. My dad was a B-52 pilot during the Cold War and I wanted to be a military pilot regardless of which service. But my eyes were bad and I wasn't good at math, and so that was a dead end. It turned out that the Marine Corps didn't care how bad my eyes were as long as glasses could correct my vision to hit center of target at 500 yards during training. So I understand the intense training the Navy pilots and RIO's went through, and I used to think what BS because they always came back to bases with comfortable beds, hot meals, and rest. As A Marine platoon commander in Vietnam 1968-69, I didn't have a comfortable bed and only very rarely hot chow. My platoon was on combat patrols for 1-2 months at a time. We were in firefights, we were mortared, we were ambushed, and mines and booby-traps were the worst. But then when I was a company commander, the First Marine Brigade Commander decided that it would be beneficial if RIO's were to become infantry company commanders for two weeks and the infantry company commanders became the back seat RIO in an F-4 for two weeks. I could write pages about my experience as a RIO in an simulated attack in and F-4 on a target with real ordinance . I could write pages on the RIO who took command of my infantry company for two weeks, but it would take too long. Suffice to say that I had a new-found respect for fighter pilots and the ability of the RIO, and the RIO had a new found respect of how hared is was to command a rifle company both in garrison and on an exercise. As a Marine, I used to accuse the pilots of being wimps for having beds, hot chow, and a bar every day while as infantry, we had none of that. But after that experience, I never accused pilots of any perks they have--they deserve them all. I did resent that infantry has none of that, but that our risks and probability of death is really no different than a pilot on each mission. While I was a Marine platoon commander in Vietnam, I called in close air support many times to save our asses. It didn't matter if is was Navy, Air Force, or Marine pilots, but it was the Marine pilots who came in closest on the target and were more accurate. But I didn't care who responded, they all saved our us. God bless all who support the infantry in combat. With out them I and all my Marines would be dead.
The discussion about Intercepts and timelines is very interesting. I studied the evolution from the 70s to the modern day and, until the late 2010s, there no proper, "standardised" timeline as part of the elementary studies. This somewhat mirroring what Bio said in the video. The story of the evolution of tactics and doctrines, but also communications standards, lexicon and brevities, in the US Navy in the recent decades is very interesting indeed.
Thanks for writing F&W, but you may have missed something. The Navy realized the value of timelines and started training to them. Although I retired in 1999 and no longer have access to the latest tactical guidance, I suspect Navy strike-fighters still use intercept timelines. Author Brad Elward discusses topics like this in his book, "TOPGUN: the Legacy."
@@dandlb Hi Bio, thanks as always for your reply. I may have phrased it badly. I meant that the evolution and the development of tactics can even be noticed even in the publicly available documentation (which is, by definition, simplified and outdated). For example, I noticed more commonalities between the basic intercepts of the Crusader and the Phantom II, up until the late 80s / early 90s, then with what came later (e.g more refined tactics and timelines - I can only guess that Gulf War and fall of the Soviet Union played a part in this). Comms seem to follow a similar pattern: there is an evident difference between, for example, the audio of the recordings of the two Gulf of Sidra incidents versus any modern-day recording (there are plenty on UA-cam). Point being, watching tactics and procedures evolve to answer new threats and scenarios is very interesting, even from the limited perspective of an enthusiast. Thanks for the book recommendation. I had a brief look at the index and I have ordered it right away. Unfortunately, your forewords were not included in the preview. Tell Mr Elward he owes you a pint :) -Karon
@@FlyAndWire Hi Karon - Thanks for adding information. I see what you're saying. It's cool there's a fair amount of real video and audio available online. As for Elward's book...you're going to love it! See you around! - Bio
Awesome vid Mooch!! My two favourite aviation people sat talking planes and stuff!! Read Bio’s book and would recommend them to anyone who’s interested in naval aviation….great to put a face and voice to the author at last!
That was an F-14 enthusiasts dream hearing two former RIOs (masters of their craft) chat about RIO and TopGun stuff. Very enjoyable! Thank you gentlemen!
I’m a 30-year Ground Marine, yet enjoy every episode. Thank you, Ward.
Semper Fidelis, Matthew! Thanks for your support!
Love your stories, Ward. Your stories actually inspire me to become a pilot for the NAVY or a WSO when I grow up, I'm also currently 11 years old. You also remind me alot of my grandpa who has sadly passed away at the age of 59 3 months ago. I hope you're having a good day.
I wish you all the best in the pursuit of your dreams @TheGenerals45 !
Don't let the roadblocks stop you kid, never give up on your dream.
I can't think of two other people I'd like to watch have a chat on the internet more than these two guys.
Bio and Crunch were a pretty good pair on the Tomcast.
History on a couch!
100% agree.
I'm assuming you're into military aviation then.
The overwhelming sense that comes across - and anyone planning to follow this pair along an avaitor's career or anything else where you really need to be world class would be kind of smart to bear in mind - is that *when you are absolutely excellent it looks easy* . BUT
That is because *the imense workload that underpins it is not visible at the time you see it* .
I could sit back and listen to the pair of you chat all afternoon. What an amazing interview thanks!
I served with Dave on the USS Ranger in 1983/84. Dave was in VF 24, I was in VA 195.
How was the transition from the A-7 to the hornet?
Man what a humble , modest guy. Remember now, these guys really are MONSTERS lurking in the skies allowing us all to lay our heads on our pillows every night, free of worry. It would be very easy to become arrogant, uppity if you will I would imagine? Yet they are do very modest and ooze PROFESSIONALISM. Thanks to you both, and to all who serve. Straight badass aviators who put their lives on the line for us, repeatedly, daily! Your guys are nothing short of amazing really
It's a big part of training to keep fighter air crews down to earth, because otherwise they get complacent. If you think your the best, you don't see the room for improvement, and you'll never get any better
Bio and Mooch! The team-up we’ve been waiting for.
No matter where he is Ward always make his talks feel like they're at his kitchen table or living room. It makes what he presents so accessible for the rest of us.
Met Bio years ago when he was signing his first book at the Smithsonian Udvar Hazy Center. Great guy to talk to and he wrote a great book.
Ditto to some of the other comments. This was a great interview and I could have listened to the two of you recount your experiences for a few more hours at least. Thanks, Ward, and enjoy your time at Tailhook this year. We look forward to more juicy content from the convention soon!
the riff at about 13:00 is worth the price of the ticket. Comments from the instructor are meant to make the student work harder, dig into it, build awareness, so as to prevail in the real world, NOT to demean the student. This was good.
Really liked this episode and that it gave your timeline of when you met him, I was at MCRD San Diego then. I only had conversations with Marine fixed wing pilot FACs while I was out with the forward observers calling in fire missions during training from the mid to late 80's. I was always surprised by how humble they were, it was a good feeling that we had each other's back while we were on the ground during in my case training at Twenty Nine Palms. Hated that place when I was there but I can look back to good memories of it now.
Mooch, you're doing excellent work with this channel. The two camera angles, the attention to audio with multiple microphones, the mixing, compressing editing etc. You're interviewing is getting better as well. Btw, I have your first book, Punk's War and I'm looking forward to digging into it. Keep it up, boss. Glad to be here.
As a former U.S. Navy Electronics Technician, it's really a treat to see what was going on in Naval Air at that time as I had just graduated from boot camp in San Diego and was in BE/E in San Diego. And my Uncle was a Naval Aviator but we never talked much as we both had a lot on our plates. Thanks to both of you for this Post. Bravo Zulu.
What year did you do BE&E?
@@foxbodyblues6709 1985. And there were quite a few interesting Characters too.
@@paultemple5042 88/89 for me, and it wasn’t in San Diego anymore.
Orlando.
I was at NAB LITTLE CREEK By then.
Hi, I watch your channel and enjoy it very much. I just watched this episode and memories came flooding back. I was and OSC and an AICS # 072 who was honored to have attended TOPGUN class 01-84. I was able to learn so much there specially in the TACS trailer. I had no idea the gymnastics you all went through until then. I learned when to shut up in an engagement, and when to break in (very seldom). I had no idea what going to TOPGUN would mean to my future. I was stationed on the USS ENTERPRISE at the time and my guys deployed with me. They had told the admiral about me and he came down and observed me several times. He then made me fly to all the ships in Battle Group Foxtrot that had an AIC and then give them thumbs up or down before he would allow them to have planes to (play with) use for intercepts. I was a docent at the National Naval Aviation Museum where I was able to meet many old friends from the pilot/RIO side. My call sign was SPYDERMAN. I went through with Dragon Tyler, Check Svatek, Bad News Barnes and Butts McLihenny. You may have know them. I was informed that to date less than 500 enlisted controllers have gone through TOPGUN. WELL THANKS FOR THE MEMORIES. Pete Howe.
Ward, what an amazing conversation.this never fails to excite me. It truly is amazing to here the stories, combined with a watered down plain English, easy to follow narrative. To hear about the education, and collaborations, debriefs. It becomes a lot easier to understand. How and where our military grew from. In these unsettling times around the world. It truly is comforting for a civilian to see are tax dollars are at work, and absolutely are well trained dedicated and professional service personnel covering our 6. Thank you and all our service members for your service. God bless the USA.
If I recall correctly from my Grumman days, there was the practical issue of a load of phoenix was too heavy to recover the aircraft in many configurations and require tossing these expensive missiles into the drink. Therefore, they didn’t fly them too often unless indicated threat required it.
I guess it was intended to counter the BackFire.
It's too heavy to land on the carrier with 6 and limited to very little gas with 4. So they rarely flew with 4 and never flew with 6 unless they were not landing back on the carrier.
Interesting limitations fact, there.
@@davidsmith8997 Also, I believe there was an issue with cooling the missile .....cooling 6 overloaded the system....4 was optimum
@@maximilliancunningham6091 badgers originally.
Worked with Bio for a couple of years. Great guy and great stories.
I had a chance to meet a former squadronmate of Dave's earlier this year. The guy was a former airframe mechanic and had stories about the F-14 and his cruises for days (literally). Loved listening to everything he had to say. Apparently he and Dave still keep in touch and a message was passed letting Dave know a tomcat fan was found out in the wild, which he was very happy about.
I have never been a instructor at anything. But then again I try to tell people how to do things. I am not a know it all, and I am still learning every day, but almost 60 years old, I have seen and done things. The hardest thing to get past, is ego's.
Terrific interview which again reinforces a previously made point regarding how important RIOs were to the success of the F14. I wish I properly understood that back in the day when I was denied a pilot role due to less than perfect eyesight and offered the opportunity to pursue a RIO job. I’m very thankful to Mooch for this channel and his colleagues for their perspectives, all serving to enlighten us on life in the F14.
@Ari GSD I understand that now and totally agree. But in the late 70’s when this was a life choice, a single-seat platform pilot told me: “You know why pilots wear big watches? So they can hold up their arm and ask, ‘Hey RIO, what time is it?’” That, unfortunately, made an impression on me and I now know nothing could have been further from the truth. I shared this with Ward when I had a chance to meet him in San Diego last February and he groaned. Such is life.
I enjoyed reading all the books by TOPGUN folks, and found it awesome how they all aligned. Thanks for all you did for us, and thanks for the great books!
The F14 on the flight deck with its wings swung fully back (storage) chained down with a full load of stores was the wickedest looking fighter plane ever.
Love it, two RIOs dishing it out, thanks to both of you!
David; Thanks for the update on John "Windows" Sill. He rose far above his nugget cruise where we were paired and went on to have a distinguished career.
Way to go John!
He mentioned your name a few times. I lost contact with Window after VF-24, but was glad when he was selected for command.
Just came across this - alerted by a buddy at a milestone HS reunion. (Sourdough below). Doing fine. Thanks for the BZ. VR/Window
Love the respect that you guys have for each other
Just 2 old guys hangin' out at the mall in Anywhere, America :D
Great flow between you two gents. Both of you have a very high level ability to communicate clearly and deconflict during a conversation.
CONSTELLATION CV64 - was mentioned so many times - this is a thumbs up for everyone. I was on my lasts months on CV64 as the man mentioned he was VF24 April 1981 he then went on CV64 Sept 1982 then went to Ranger , on CV64 he wanted to be a good RIO, John Silo call sign Window, JAWS is the awesome pilot, etc. Must of been on CV64. Bottom Line: WE ARE USA. We all love this country, the same country that GEORGE WASHINGTON did his DUTY, the FOOT SOLDIERS who did their DUTY, every US AMERICAN who did their DUTY. I am so proud of the USA, like Lee Greenwood stated. OUR HEART IS CLEAR, OUR COUNTRY, GOD BLESS THE USA.
Thank you for an amazing opportunity to see a bit into your world.
I also did the 83 Ranger cruise as an AQ1 in VF 211 big sister to VF 24, In 85 or 86 served under C0MMANDER. Window Sill in 211 as an AQC left the fighting Check mates in Sept 87 after the would cruise on Kitty Hawk, as an LDO Ensign. Commissioned by Commander Flats Flannery
Another great episode! Love hearing you talk about the F-14 Tomcat! Great job!! Tomcats Forever!!!
I met “Bio” at the Air and Space Museum near Dulles Airport, back in 2011 or 2012. Bought a signed copy of Top Gun Days.
Excellent video. Thank you for your service. I cannot serve, nor can I fly.
Great episode Mooch. You are a master at asking the right questions and prefacing the scenario to get the best answer from your guests. Great job.
You RIOs should be proud! You are orchestrating the fight and you gotta be more physically prepared to pull Gs because you don’t get as much anticipation as the pilot. Correct me if I’m wrong on that. It’s amazing what you all did. I love listening to this stuff!
Mooch this is great. Been watching both of you on youtube for a while. Nice to see you and Bio together.
Thanks for this. BIO's a great listen of course, and it was a nice reminder on the importance of crew coordination, and how tactics continued to evolve to keep pace with new and existing threats.
Thanks Bio, love the talk about not getting cross threaded when getting taught.
It's amazing, I KNEW Mooch (had) to know Bio (and Crunch) because they're from the same era, but I was so hoping for an upload like this!! It's my era as well aboard the Kitty Hawk (85-87) in the MARDET.. thanks so much Mooch.
Yes nice to always see you with these great videos thank you Guys
Another fabulous episode, Mooch! Your interview episodes are universally fascinating, entertaining, and educational. Excellent, excellent stuff!
Could listen to you guys chat all bloody day!
I was a pilot in your squadron during the previous deployment as the Maintenance Officer. In fact, I was responsible for changing the name of the squadron to Fighting Renegades. John "Windows" Sill was my RIO during this deployment. I often wonder how his career progressed. From your description, the answer seems extremely well. Do you know a way I could talk with John?
Thanks!
Window was the Skipper of VF 211 in 85 86 87 ish
Great video! I disagree with the Navy's attitude about only using the Phoenix to defend the carrier. Granted, it was the most expensive air to air weapon in the fleet and not to be wasted, but training should have taught pilots how to effectively use every capability they had. The Iranians used the Phoenix very effectively in their war with Iraq; had our Tomcats been equipped with up to date IFF, F-14s could have participated in fighter sweeps during Operation Desert Storm. I agree wholeheartedly with the criticism, "Why are we only training against the MiG-17 and MiG-21?" During the Samarrah Air Battle, two MiG-25 Foxbats fought two f-15s to a draw and one F-15 was damaged. Had a Tomcat been there, equipped with Phoenix missiles, both Foxbats would have been turned into confetti.
Up to date IFF?
What would that mean?
Ex-Navy ET and IFF tech here
@@foxbodyblues6709 If you we’re an ET and a IFF tech, why are you asking? You should know!
@@virgildailey1970 I was a shipboard IFF tech and I assume something could have been different in aviation. Was it a MKXII set?
The interrogator on a ship was likely nothing like an aviation interrogator for example.
The only aviation IFF equipment I ever saw was on a helo and it was the transponder only.
I wouldn’t even know what is on a jet.
And thanks for the snark too, shipmate.
@@foxbodyblues6709 He really should have said NCTR, but since he didn’t know that, he said IFF. F-14A at the time didn’t have the level of NCTR required for BVR PID, whereas the F-15Cs and F/A-18Cs did have at least 2 levels of NCTR parameters necessary for legit PID. He also made the assumption that F-14A/AWG-9 was a superior BVR platform compared with the F-15C/APG-63(V)1, which it wasn’t, especially over land. That didn’t come until the F-14D/APG-71, which was an APG-63/70 variant.
When threat forward-quarter missiles became more capable, the Navy realized that the Phoenix was essential for superiority. I discuss this evolution in my book "Tomcat RIO."
Great vlog per usual; seems those chosen for fighters are those with the best academics, performance, aptitude, in essence: the best of the Best.
Great job as always. I served with Mr Baraneck in VF-2. Great guy
My respects Sir. Thank you very much for this video. It's a very interesting subject, in fact it's so interesting that i can see randomly this video (and the one on how to kill bandit...). You are both brillant at air combat and are true speechmaster. That's great moment to hear you. You make me understand that it's far better to be two with an AWG 9 than one with a APG 81. Thank you both Sir.
Very respectfuly
Great interview. So informative. Thank you both.
Great interview
Thanks Mooch another great episode on your channel, I Love Bio and Crunch their F-14 Tomcast was outstanding...!
You should have him back for a storytelling episode that would be very entertaining and good for a few laughs as well.
So Wise , Thank You . A fine example of each group learning from each other and making each other better
In reply to Avengell: The U.S. Navy got the concept of the landing deck on an Aircraft Carrier to be at an angle to port, and the gyro-stabilized Frenell lens “meatball” to show glide slope, from the British Royal Navy. Also, the Harrier AV-8A was originally British, with McDonald-Douglas greatly improving it as the AV-8B. The JayHawk trainers are adaptations of the Hawk trainers which the RAF use for their Red Arrows display team. The RB-57 Canaberra of the Vietnam War era was originally made by English Electric. It goes both ways, with countless U.S. aircraft being used by our allies. One really good concept, which the U.S. Navy rejected, was the Ski Jump on small carriers to launch deck roll jet aircraft. The British, French, Spanish, Italians, India, and Russia all use a Ski Jump on their Carriers. There was a really great article by a USMC test pilot in USNI Proceedings about 35 years ago, where he gave all the advantages of the Ski Jump for a “Harrier Carrier” after being on exchange with the British. Why we rejected the idea, I don’t know. Maybe a case of “not invented here.”
Disadvantages outweighed advantages in the U.S. Navy's eyes. A lot of extra top weight on the ship, harder to modify as the ship was refit, etc.
I worked with Tumor for may years at NGC on Fire Scout and BAMS/Triton and saw his phots, made when photos were on film and before photoshop. I am pleased you recognized him for his art.
Yes, he's one of the greats. His photos are well represented in the book "Grumman F-14 Tomcat: Bye - Bye Baby...!: Images & Reminiscences From 35 Years of Active Service," by Dave Parsons, George Hall, and Bob Lawson.
he's a really good guest, lookin forward to the discuss
Great seeing you two together 😃
I just thought of the words of Al Davis Oakland Raiders, Commitment to Excellence! One of your best yet.
Enjoyed seeing you two doing a show, great story and entertaining to hear old war stories.
It is great you are recording this for posterity.
As an amateur photographer I would like to say that Bio’s images on F14 Sunsets were incredible, some of the best shots of the F14 out there, so much so that I did screen grab one and I use it as a profile picture on a certain social media site. I hope Bio doesn’t mind, now I know who took it I will attribute it 😉 great Vlog Mooch, could listen to you both all day 👍
While watching the interview, the phrase "Officer and a Gentleman" entered my mind. That, in turn, reminded me of something a college professor said about how to become a top tier college or university - admit only the best and brightest and then give them what they want in terms of knowledge and turn them loose. A bit tongue and cheek but points to the question is it the institution or the student? I went to high school with John Sill (Window) and he was a scholar and a gentleman then. Both of you are clearly gentlemen and represent the institutions to which you served with distinction.
I remember hearing this discussion at MIT. Is the student selection the key (ie they’re great with or without MIT)? Or is it that MIT makes them great ?
(I think it is both. I suspect the Top Gun is the same; a reinforcing loop).
Nice term, "Cross threaded".
I NEVER get tiered of listening, to Bio, or you Ward. 😊
That's such a great interview!
First I thought he is Robin Olds without mustache :)
Great stuff, I always appreciate instructional insights. Instructing is easy, it’s being a great instructor that is the challenge.
Great video! You guys are amazing! Thanks for all you do in creating this content. ❤️
Got to see Bio speak in front of one of the test and evaluation Tomcats.
What a great setting
He was entertaining and he stayed to talk after.
Such a nice guy and so personable.
A big thank you to all those who fight for our freedom I salute u guys (✌peace✌)
Ward and Bio together. It doesn't get much better!
Outstanding!
Love the two-camera shoot. Decent audio, too.
Ironic you guys being at the "Nugget."
This was very enlightening about Top Gun and the F14
Thanks
Thanks for the support, Craig.
@@WardCarroll Thankyou for your ongoing work and information
Awesome ! The most elite Tomcat guys.
That was some of the best flying I’ve seen……right up to the point where you left your wingman…..never leave your wingman.
It would be interesting to have a comparison in how the role of the backseater has changed over the years. How navigation and radar systems have developed and are much less manually demanding to use and how the role has developed in to being something of a mission manager.
I got to spend some time w Bio after his panel at Airventure. Absolutely great guy. Hope to see him there in the future.
Those East Coast squadrons got the kills, Bio ...
Yes, but I can't hide my preference for NAS MIramar.
1986 was a lifetime ago. "Top Gun" now means a whole 'nuther s***load to me present day, after listening to you guys give the real gouge.
And I watched that movie NINE times in three weeks, when it released, and how many more on VHS afterwards. What I'd give to go back and watch it those first few times with the eyes I have now.
I must again show my immeasurable gratitude to Bio and other Tomcat crew for the fantastic photos we all enjoy today. They are the Bible for my a/c modelling.
As others have said, I could listen all day to you chewing the cud on tactics and tech.
VR
Risky.
Thanks, Risky.
There’s nothing cooler than watching 2 badasses talk about badass shit!
Semper Fi 🇺🇸
I reas his book before i found this channel. Very cool
Thanks Ward i love the behind the curtain talk.
Great listening to guys would love to see both do an intercept in DCS.
i hope the tomcast comes back for another season!
Dude! Multi camera shoot! Nice!
Just a Hyd Mech for F-4' j did a highly publicized 1981 Med Cruise on USS Forrestal we shadowed the Nimitz during the 1st Gulf of Sidra Incident US 2 Libya 0
Another great video Mr. Carroll
Great! Thanks.
Gentlemen thank you for your service. I am a Tomcat junkie. I am jealous but thank you.
Ward two American heroes who have pulled eight gs and were the second scanning eyes
for the bad guys, and a team for democracy and justice. Great show SEMPER-FI
I respect and love everyone who ever served in the military. Many of the military occupational specialties had very little risk, but pilots, RIO's, infantry, and many others were very high risk.
During the Vietnam War I joined the Marine Corps to avoid being drafted. Best decision I have ever made, but that is a very long story.
My dad was a B-52 pilot during the Cold War and I wanted to be a military pilot regardless of which service. But my eyes were bad and I wasn't good at math, and so that was a dead end.
It turned out that the Marine Corps didn't care how bad my eyes were as long as glasses could correct my vision to hit center of target at 500 yards during training.
So I understand the intense training the Navy pilots and RIO's went through, and I used to think what BS because they always came back to bases with comfortable beds, hot meals, and rest. As A Marine platoon commander in Vietnam 1968-69, I didn't have a comfortable bed and only very rarely hot chow. My platoon was on combat patrols for 1-2 months at a time. We were in firefights, we were mortared, we were ambushed, and mines and booby-traps were the worst.
But then when I was a company commander, the First Marine Brigade Commander decided that it would be beneficial if RIO's were to become infantry company commanders for two weeks and the infantry company commanders became the back seat RIO in an F-4 for two weeks.
I could write pages about my experience as a RIO in an simulated attack in and F-4 on a target with real ordinance .
I could write pages on the RIO who took command of my infantry company for two weeks, but it would take too long.
Suffice to say that I had a new-found respect for fighter pilots and the ability of the RIO, and the RIO had a new found respect of how hared is was to command a rifle company both in garrison and on an exercise.
As a Marine, I used to accuse the pilots of being wimps for having beds, hot chow, and a bar every day while as infantry, we had none of that.
But after that experience, I never accused pilots of any perks they have--they deserve them all.
I did resent that infantry has none of that, but that our risks and probability of death is really no different than a pilot on each mission. While I was a Marine platoon commander in Vietnam, I called in close air support many times to save our asses. It didn't matter if is was Navy, Air Force, or Marine pilots, but it was the Marine pilots who came in closest on the target and were more accurate. But I didn't care who responded, they all saved our us.
God bless all who support the infantry in combat. With out them I and all my Marines would be dead.
Great Stuff. Thanks.
The discussion about Intercepts and timelines is very interesting. I studied the evolution from the 70s to the modern day and, until the late 2010s, there no proper, "standardised" timeline as part of the elementary studies. This somewhat mirroring what Bio said in the video.
The story of the evolution of tactics and doctrines, but also communications standards, lexicon and brevities, in the US Navy in the recent decades is very interesting indeed.
Thanks for writing F&W, but you may have missed something. The Navy realized the value of timelines and started training to them. Although I retired in 1999 and no longer have access to the latest tactical guidance, I suspect Navy strike-fighters still use intercept timelines. Author Brad Elward discusses topics like this in his book, "TOPGUN: the Legacy."
@@dandlb Hi Bio, thanks as always for your reply.
I may have phrased it badly. I meant that the evolution and the development of tactics can even be noticed even in the publicly available documentation (which is, by definition, simplified and outdated).
For example, I noticed more commonalities between the basic intercepts of the Crusader and the Phantom II, up until the late 80s / early 90s, then with what came later (e.g more refined tactics and timelines - I can only guess that Gulf War and fall of the Soviet Union played a part in this).
Comms seem to follow a similar pattern: there is an evident difference between, for example, the audio of the recordings of the two Gulf of Sidra incidents versus any modern-day recording (there are plenty on UA-cam).
Point being, watching tactics and procedures evolve to answer new threats and scenarios is very interesting, even from the limited perspective of an enthusiast.
Thanks for the book recommendation. I had a brief look at the index and I have ordered it right away. Unfortunately, your forewords were not included in the preview.
Tell Mr Elward he owes you a pint :)
-Karon
@@FlyAndWire Hi Karon - Thanks for adding information. I see what you're saying. It's cool there's a fair amount of real video and audio available online.
As for Elward's book...you're going to love it!
See you around! - Bio
Bio is such a good dude, it's a shame he never got to fly in the D model
Awesome vid Mooch!! My two favourite aviation people sat talking planes and stuff!!
Read Bio’s book and would recommend them to anyone who’s interested in naval aviation….great to put a face and voice to the author at last!
A+ content in all aspects. Well done.
Thank you so much Mooch for bringing us a great and informative conversation. Drink to the foam at tail hook.⚓💪🇺🇸💪🇺🇦🖖😎
Great video.
I was a p3 tube rat. We had a saying:
“Never trust a TACCO that does not wear glasses”
Same thing was said in the Viking community!!!