SOLE SLIP: LMS Stanier 4MT No 2500
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- Опубліковано 16 вер 2024
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Forgotten, but not gone! Sole Slip looks at the LMS triple-cylindered 4MT tank No 2500.
This is an original documentary produced by me and my friends, starring my creations and myself. I required no permission to film on any of the premises featured in this production.
The music, images and artwork are my own creations unless otherwise stated.
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L Blyth.
My father did a lot of the test driving for this engine while it was at Watford Sheds. He suggested several alterations to it. He wanted better ventilation for the cab { summer 1934 was hot }. He also wanted the top of the bunker leaned in to increase the view when reversing. There were other suggestions but I was only eight years old at the time and cannot remember them.
This engine was designed as a three cylinder especially for the Southend Line as the rails were lighter than other mainlines. This was to reduce the hammer blow. It resulted in a more comfortable ride for the crew and also gave it a good acceleration. My Father thought this engine would be superb with just a few little 'tweaks'.
When a new tank engine was needed the chance was taken to use this design but as a two cylinder, which made the maintenance easier. The cylinders were also increased in diameter to make up for the loss of the inside one.
I hope this is of interest to anyone who likes "my Dads engine".
I like hearing testimonies like these. Thanks for sharing
Your "dad's engine" is my personal favourite.
It wasn't the rails that were light, the issue was the viaduct into Fenchurch street, which was owned by the LNER (the LMS had running powers for this service). The GER and LNER had banned previous attempts at providing suitable power for the LTS commuter routes, which is why the LMS was still building the old Whitelegg 4-4-2ts until 1930.
Interestingly, although official tests showed no benefit to the 3 cylinders over the two-cylinders, the LTS crews seemed to think the 3 cylinders were the best available, ranking the Fairburns as next best and the BR standards as 3rd. And the LTS crews probably knew best, because I think the Southend-Fenchurch street service was very, very heavy work for class 4 engines - 11-13 suburban coaches during the peaks.
I think had they put more super-heat on this engine it would have been a class apart (Stanier's first few designs were very much GWR thinking, with low superheat).
This is one loco I'd love to see back on the rails. Would be such a welcome change from the Standard 4s
Id love to see it done for use on Scarborough trains. It might only have a 2,000 gallon capacity but for short trips she would be ideal as the routes only 42 miles long.
Come to Belfast on the 24th August to see one of them running.
Neil Campbell You mean the NCC WT? That's more of an odd combination of the Fowler and Fairburn versions than a beauty like this.
*Thrashed through Essex on a daily basis*
Oh my how lewd-
BSM Iron (Panzer) Lawl One word.
*No.*
Shut up
Never thought I'd see a three cylinder tankie! Quite a powerful little girl, but it's a shame her power was only a surplus comfort.
Maybe someday she'll poke her head out of the museum and do some running? I'd wager she'd do exceptionally well on a commuter-oriented excursion
Terrific locomotives, fast acceleration and as Chris said able to pull 400 tons with relative ease.
Thank you. My favourite locomotive. Happy memories riding behind them in to Southend Central for a day at the seaside. How we hated the replacement DMUs.
The miracle engine for the Misery Line.
80mph + with 400 tons? wow...
I've been binge watching these constantly today and i haven't realised till now that this is a new vid 😂. As always great work and can't wait for more slips and solo slips
Nice little SLIP treat for the day, and quite a unique engine as well. Admittedly, three cylinders would make me raise an eyebrow and wonder whether it was compensating for something. It was a good idea, and it is a shame it didn't work to great. Though with an axle loading higher than a King, there's really not many places they could work well in without basically needing to double the permanent way. Still a great engine though, and I've always had a soft spot for big tank engines
My recent comments may be of interest to you.
Very enjoyable sole SLIP Chris. I remember the NRM talked about restoring her in the last decade, before Scotsman encountered more problems with her frames. Maybe one day eh? Very thankful an example still exists.
Yeah, it was on the to-do list until Flying Moneypit gobbled up all the budget.
Do the NCC WT tank no. 4. There are also many other engines in the ireland that are pretty intresting and would make good sole slips.
Very awesome. This is one of my favorite series of yours, you do an excellent job. Can I make a request of doing a video on the GER Y14/LNER J15?
I wemt to the NRM on the 4th August. She was the last thing i had a look at and she is beautiful
It's a unique locomotive for sure. I think it's comparable to perhaps a Lambo Miura, introduced a very unique idea but itself wasn't thought of much when a better version came out (Fairburns and the Miura SV)
A great pity that more of the Stanier Class 4 tanks, either 2 cylinder or 3 cylinder, didn't survive. They were excellent machines and without doubt the best looking tank engines ever built.
"Forgotten, but not gone!" LOL
I would like to synchcronise with Leslie Blyth on this engine in particular. My father, who recently passed away used to regularly fire and drive this engine. He first saw it in a pretty poor state of repair at the Bressingham steam museum, then a few years later, fully restored at York and it was a very emotional moment as he re-aquainted himself with this fine engine. Yes, indeed it was the steam equivalent of the Ford Escort XR3!
awesome vid I loved it
nice video
Beautiful locos! Nice testimony!
I made this and the 2-cylinder variant in Garry's Mod a few months ago! Shame that the third Cylinder of this class was a downside, but if it the locomotive weigh more than a King, I can see why it didn't catch on, unlike the 2-cylinder variant.
My recent comments may be of interest to to you.
The third cylinder was not a downside for performance - apparently the LTS crews thought the 3 cylinder engines were better than the 2 cylinder ones.
Great 'Sole Slip' of the LMS 2-6-4 4MT Chris 😉 Are you going to do a Episode of the Fairburn tanks in the near future?
Funny enough I’m seeing this engine at NRM on Sunday.
At least i ain’t the only one who thought about it :D
The think the closet American equivalent to this would be the (now lost) Boston and Albany 4-6-6 Commuter Tanks.
Who hasn’t been thrashed through Essex!
50 years ago today 1T57 ran!!!
Cool will you be doing an episode on the sole surviving Dean goods?
I am hopeful that Locomotion Models will produce the Stanier 3 cylinder 4MT no 2500 and the LTSR Class 79 via Hornby next year because I am considering doing a layout of Southend On Sea and Southend East in the days of the LMS in the 1930s. And since I am an admirer of former Love Island contestant Megan Barton-Hanson, its probably a good reason to build it and display it at Southend On Sea.
I know this is going To Shot Down But I'm asking If there Going LMS 2-6-4/2-6-2 Tanks or it's that in Micky Mouse Eps. Wow More that a King.
Chris this in my opinion is a larger version of the LMS 2MT tank engine just saying
😄😄😄😄😄😄 I love this
I’m wondering about which British Railways standard locomotive this inspired. Or did it?
You mean British electric equipment, the GG1s were actually very fast.
Wow, recognizing something from Pennsylvania, and you're from the South. Hallelujah. I'm a conservative Northen Yankee Born again Christian, and I am astonished that you actually give credit to a Northern locomotive. I lived in the South for several years, and even though I'm from the North, the Southerners never seemed to give ANY recognition to ANYTHING Northern. Amazing. God Bless you.
So the 3rd cylinder was more effort to maintain than it was beneficial? Besides weight, how much did the characteristics of the 2-cylinder version differ from the 3-cylinder version?
AFAIK very little. The boiler is the same and so is the tractive effort. The ride may have been smoother because 3-cyl locos are better balanced. I'd be very suspicious of any claims that these were sooper-dooper turbo monsters that could tear the couplings out. My guess is that their performance was similar to the 2-cyl version - just a good sound suburban tank.
@@Rosie6857 They had 3 cylinders because the LNER wanted as little hammer blow on the fragile viaduct into fenchurch street. The LMS only had running powers over that part of the the LTS, so they had to do what the LNER wanted. The LTS crews preferred the 3 cylinder engines to the Fairburns/standards - by late 1940s all objections to 2-cyl locos on the viaducts had disappeared.
@@teddansonLA OK, didn't know that. We had Fairburns on the Oxted Line when I was young. They were mostly OK but had an inefficient vacuum ejector which allowed the brakes to leak on if the boiler pressure fell to about 140 psi (out of 200). They had a very sharp, loud but thin exhaust beat but of course they were working hard, stopping and restarting 8-coach commuter trains on 1 in 100 gradients. I rather liked them, more interesting than the BR4 Standards which I thought were just a generic 2-6-4T though they weren't bad once crews had got used to them.
Not entirely true. There are two more tanks on the Lakeside and Haverthwaite Railway.
different class.
Same class 2500 is from the first batch. And the other two, on the Lakeside and Haverthwaite Railway are from the second modified batch.
no,the second modified batch were built by Stanier between 1935 and 1943 and were like batch 1 but without the middle cylinder. The two at LHR are the Fairburn version which Charles Fairburn based on batch 2 and they were built between 1945 and 1951. there were 37 3cyl stanier tanks/206 2 cyl stanier tanks and 277 Fairburns.
@@jackchatfield5464 different wheelbase, cylinder layout, cab layout and different boilers. So different class.
You should do some Australian locos, like the R class and the 38 class
Cheers an Australian trainspotter
This feels weird to say, the fairburns were more powerful in terms of tractive effort.
70 pounds more.
70 pounds in 24,000 is nothing. What really counts is the locomotives ability to make steam.
It says 4p on the cab but title says 4mt
When are you gonna do a sole slip on the Q class
Didn't some people get mad that they didn't preserve a Fowler? Some people.
The problem with a three cylinder is you cannot divide 3 by 360 equally. A 2 cylinder is simple it’s just 360 divided by 2 180 plus 180. A four cylinder is simple it’s just 360 divided by 4. 90 plus 90 plus 90 plus 90. That’s why a three cylinder car engine always sounds like it’s misfiring. It’s just not quite balanced.
Are you sure? 360/3= 120, so it divides perfectly well. The main reason this class had 3 cylinders is the black wall viaduct was lightly built, and the LNER didn't want large 2 cylinder engines on it. Three cylinder locomotives are in fact much smoother than 2 cylinder ones of the same power.
👏👏👏👏👏
Is it possible for us to see an L&YR sole SLIP on the Class 5 or Class 27?
David Bradshaw (chairman of LMS Patriot Project) thinks an LMS Fowler 4P 2-6-4t should’ve been preserved instead of this engine
Chris, if you are reading this, I saw a video online who was using your clips from the S160s, just thought I'd say so
Where did you see this?
an eight second video, it was the second option i saw when typing in 'USA S160 Whistle'. It featured the shots of the whistle scene from the slip
103, 1008, 1000
Fun fact!
The designer of this loco made a variant for the Northern Counties Committee (NCC), the LMS’s northern Irish subsidiary and it’s almost identical except for the bunker design, the gauge and other things. It was called The NCC WT class and was nicknamed the “Geep/Jeep” class due to their strength and versatility, and they were the last mainline steam locomotives operating in the UK ua-cam.com/video/aPsNGWAoJI4/v-deo.html watch this video for more facts and why they operated so lately, plus it would make a nice video on sole slip
My choice of a commuter locomotive would be the PRR/LIRR G5 4-6-0.
First