Great video! We also allow communion with members of synods we are in fellowship with and encourage members to pray when in churches in those synods. In the USA the only other synod is the ELS synod, but internationally there are a number of synods the WELS is in fellowship with.
For being in Wisconsin and former WELS, your concise research is stellar. Even with the craft beer picture of New Glarus, Central Waters, and Untitled Art included within 3 seconds, even got the prost there. The closed communion aspect can be quite contentious, especially with visitors who didn't consult with the pastor beforehand. The anti-christ pope stance forced Michelle Bachmann (former U.S. Representative in Minnesota, later a Republican candidate for President in 2012) to leave her WELS church.
True, as soon as I entered into the Church I recently now go to (WELS), I knew I couldn't take communion because I wasn't a member there and I was a member at the ELCA. Taking communion will be a dealbreaker for me (it will be a main reason why I would want to decide sooner on becoming a member there)
@Jon Visser read the post again, I was a member there (I am not a member anymore). I became a Christian last year and it was the first church where I officiently went. As I grew in faith, I researched about the ELCA, and as a result I revoked my membership and now I go to a WELS church. Please read my comments, instead of assuming what I am.
@@MeakH1 Sorry about that. I'm glad you're not gay. I used to be in the ELCA also. My youth pastor was a lesbian. Another woman taught us all (both boys and girls in the same room) how to masturbate and that it was good to do so. After my undergrad in Bible and music I converted to the Church Jesus Christ created and maintains: The Catholic Church. I don't like Lutherans. My whole family is Lutheran.
0:02 As a Wisconsinite, I am overjoyed to catch a glimpse of Central Waters Brewer's Reserve Bourbon Barrel Stout. It is one of the world's finest beers... Ok, please continue.
Thanks for covering WELS. I am a member, and I love our synod’s consistency. Our seminary does a great job training pastors. Just a few notes I thought I’d add to what you said: First, I understand how the prohibition on prayer with other Christians rubs many the wrong way. I struggle with it myself at times, though the things I like about the synod outweigh this issue. It is also not something that is taught as hard and fast, our pastors would not hesitate to pray with someone on their deathbed or say grace with non-WELS family at holidays, for example. It’s also not some sort of primary doctrine that’s heavily stressed with the laity. It’s mostly geared toward not wanting pastors or those representing the WELS appearing to show solidarity with those we believe have heterodox doctrine. Guarding fellowship goes way back to the reformation in Lutheranism, when there were issues with reformed theology infiltrating the church after the smalcald wars. Second, the Pope as Antichrist also is a traditional Lutheran interpretation. We translate the “anti” as “in place of”, not “against”. This is also not some sort of primary doctrine, more of an “our best guess”. Thanks for your great videos!
As someone very much in the Reformed tradition (OPC), I understand, and respect much of WELS teaching. closed communion and I understand the concept of closed prayer. I am gratified that it is not hard and fast on the last though as that would be legalistic.
Luther was the origim of the concept of the Pope as antiChrist. The Pope Luther dealt with pretty much was An antiChrist. The point of doctrine for which Luther was forced to head his own church was Leo X's Sale of indulgences. The Council of Trent declared that anathema without naming names. The reason I was given for closed prayer is to avoid pastors being under pressure to compromise if they led public prayer. I consider myself LCMS but my mother and brother are members of a WELS congregation
I am LCMS and we have a few people from the WELS attending our church - there is no WELS church probably for a good 150 miles or so. Our pastor welcomes them for Holy Communion. He doesn’t want them to go without the Sacrament, even though technically the LCMS wouldn’t allow them to commune, and the WELS wouldn’t allow them to approach.
Exactly. I pray with my Baptist family without any issues, and with the approval of my Pastor. But would I attend Sunday service at a baptist church? By no means.
"WELS members are not to pray together with people who are not also part of WELS." I used to be part of a WELS congregation. My relatives who are WELS and I completely ignored this, choosing instead to pray as a family regardless of denominational affiliation. I suspect this is quite common.
The prohibition on prayer is only there to reinforce the idea that WELS agrees with other denominations that get things wrong. You and everyone in ELS/WELS are more than welcome to privately pray with any true Christian, and no one will object.
As a Norwegian Lutheran currently in the United States, I have wanted to take part in worship. I am going to a church belonging to the Evangelical Lutheran Synod, a denomination in fellowship with WELS. Closed communion is a bit strange, but they do want people to be safe, understand and follow the teaching before allowing them to partake. While the church is very welcoming, I am not sure if I am able to join in communion. I am only going to stay for a few months. It would also be difficult if it meant changing membership in Norway. Most Lutherans in Norway are members of the Church of Norway, even if they would not belong to the same synod in the US. The churches in fellowship with the WELS and ELS in Norway is also very tiny and not an option where I'm from.
Hi friend! I’m a member of the ELS; if you’re communing at the ELS church you’re attending, you should have no problem communing at a WELS church. Just make sure to talk to the pastor beforehand and let him know you’re associated with the ELS.
0:39 Yes and no, WELS allows not only members of WELS to take communion but also synods that are in agreement with their doctrine. ELS members can take communion at a WELS church.
Absolutely. Anyone part of the Confessional Evangelical Lutheran Conference, founded in 1993, is in communion with WELS. It is a pretty small group, as membership goes. ELS, the only other US body is about 1/10 the size of WELS.
@@ReadyToHarvest Thanks, I just wanted to clarify it because WELS wants those in full doctrinal agreement to be apart of communion. Consequently, I cant partake in communion because I am not a member tgere and before entering into the Church, I was from the ELCA (revoked my membership there).
We rejoice in your Christianity, but we feel it is wrong to validate any heterodox doctrine your church may hold. Praying with you is a sign of Fellowship, a sign of being in complete agreement. We're not in complete agreement. Does this mean we believe Heaven will be full of only WELS Lutherans? No. We believe that we want to be correct in all of Our doctrine. Putting the best light possible (as the eighth commandment teaches us) tells us that's what other denominations want to do as well. Until we agree on what that doctrine is, We can't validate it with you. would youu pray together with another who doesn't hold to the Trinity, for example? Why would you? That's a Fundamental holding of the Christian faith. Hope this helps explain.
@The Pt Host I look at it this way, would you pray with someone that has major differences between Christianity and isn't in full agreement with the Trinity, and with free grace theology?
Great job again as always!!!!!! You know what would be a FASCINATING video? A 2-5 minute video that does a short 'rapid fire' overview on the 'bottom line' rulings of the 21 Ecumenical Councils. Most Christians are *somewhat* familiar with the rulings of the 'Council of Nicaea' but would probably find it fascinating to hear about the rulings of the other 20.
A college friend had me over for Thanksgiving while I was in seminary. Her family is WELS. Her mom, quite the rebel, asked me to say the blessing: “pastor Chris will say the blessing.” Her father opened his mouth to protest, but she hit him and said a bit louder, “PASTOR CHRIS WILL SAY THE BLESSING!” At the time, I didn’t know what was going on… but I do now! 😂
@@angelbonilla2255 I grew up LCMS and still am LCMS - we do not pray with others. Lutheran pastors do not participate in prayer with other religions or stand with pastors of other religions or denominations. When you pray with someone of a different faith you are accepting their faith.
I was raised WELS, and I'm amazed at the amount of misconceptions which surround the church. There's really nothing more happening in WELS than what this content creator has stated. I have excellent memories of my pastor and congregation. If I were to move back to my hometown (rural WI), I would attend my old church again 😊
I appreciate Joshua 's videos alot as someone who is interested in religions. As a non-Christian I can't really understand all the disputes and distinctions among all the denominations and sub-denominations, but from what I can understand, it seems as though WELS and ELCA are really separate but similar religions altogether.
WELS and ELCA are both Lutheran, however the ELCA Lutheran have a more broad interpretation of Lutheranism and don't have a problem with modern science. WELS are Fundamentalist, reject some things about modern science, and have some peculiar attitudes or doctrines at times, and are more sectarian.
@@dovygoodguy1296 Yes, they are separate institutions, but both are Lutheran and share common doctrines and history. Where they differ is interpretation of doctrine in its application, and certain religious practices (WELS don't believe in evolution, do not believe in the spiritual equality of men and women, and won't even pray with other Lutherans).
There was a WELS church directly next to my family’s farm. I would attend their services as a kid, even though I’m Catholic. I had a lot of fun debating their pastor. Good people, though it would be interesting when they’d have a visiting minister who would rail against the Pope, and my friends would chuckle with me (including one of the girls my age who went to a Catholic school).
@@curtbrockhaus6131 Or just wanted to preach what their church teaches? They had no way of knowing they had a bored Catholic in the pews. I didn’t take any offense.
WELS is in fellowship with ELS which is Evangelical Lutheran Synod I think. The difference between WELS and Lutheran Church Missouri Synod ( LCMS ) is that WELS is more closed than LCMS. Some LCMS congregations sponsored Boy Scout troups which require believing in Some God which violates WELS closedness and LCMS joined an international association of Lutheran demoninations some of which have different theology so WELS disfellowshiped. You should probably have mentioned that there are other (confessional) Lutheran denominations with exactly the same theology as WELS but the biggest ( ELCA ) very much differs. (ELCA ordained a lesbian bishop).
Sort of. Fellowship broke between the WELS and LCMS when the Synodical conference dissolved as a result of an LCMS seminary allowing for the historical critical method to be taught. The remnant of the Synodical Conference is the fellowship between the WELS and ELS, which is still in good standing with each other. The LCMS has since gotten involved with other global Lutheran church bodies, as have the WELS and ELS.
@@MdrnNINJA I have from WELS, LCMS and AALC sources that it WELS disfellowshiped LCMS as a reaction to LCMS joining an international association of Lutheran denominations some of which are liberal. One source mentioned the disagreement over Boy Scout troups.
@@markhorton3994 You may be misunderstanding the citations. Sure, the Boy Scouts thing is an issue that came up, but it’s not a sole reason ties were cut. And you’re right, there were certain exploratory talks that the LCMS did with other synods, but there were other issues brewing in the LCMS’s St. Louis Seminary (which ultimately led to Seminex, or Seminary in Exile in 1974), that were seen by the ELS and WELS as major breaking points, and finally led to the dissolution of the Synodical Conference. The ELS suspended fellowship in 1955, the WELS in 1961. As it stands, it’s easier to break fellowship than it is to declare it, so certain disagreements (such as the Boy Scouts) make it harder for re-unity to take place.
Wisconsin here Yet still non-denominational Early church history and apostolic doctrines is where I'm at While waiting and hoping for the restoration of the whole church
@YAJUN YUAN you guys are refering always to the Council of 325 whichs mane discusion was the divinity of Christ since Arianism was the meaning that Christ had no divine nature bur was just like a hero. Thanks to that council you got the Trinity in which you too believe. And this was not 3rd century but 4th century. The Church was made by Christ and we know it because first, the teaching from the early Church are present today in the same Church and second, the Catholic Church was a common knowledge already since the start. Take it from Ignatius of Antioch (32-110), bishop of Antioch, the place where christians first started to call themselfs christians and who was also a student of John the apostle: "Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful to baptize or give communion without the consent of the bishop. On the other hand, whatever has his approval is pleasing to God. Thus, whatever is done will be safe and valid." - Letter to the Smyrnaeans 8,
@YAJUN YUAN that new age christians think that they know it better than the early Christians and apostles isn't new. That the Church was corrupted since the begining would mean that it is not "house of God and pillar and foundation of the Truth (1st Timothy 3:15) and that the gates of Hell prevailed against it, which is not what Jesus promissed. Without that Church you wouldn't get the Bible since its first canon was created in 382. You got that same Bible but shortened by 7 books. The word Trinity like the word pope isn't in the Bible but it's descriptions are. And thats why it was visible in the eaely Church history. No matter how much the pope falls in sin, he is still the chosen by the Holy Spirit. You got a Peter who denounced the living Christ 3 times and Jesus chose him to lead his flock and forgave this terrible sin. Even though John was kinda favorable. When the 2 ran to Jesus tomb, John came first but waited Peter to enter first, because he knew Peter was the leader in the Kings current absentism. Peter was breaking bread first among them, Peter was leading the council of Jerusalem, Peter chose Mathias in the name of the Holy Ghost as apostle in Acts. If this werent enough, you got early Church history which described the Church in Rome the first seat. This is meant like this since you also got the seat of Moses before. There sits the King. After the King is not there, then his right hand man rules. From where you got that atheists baptise others , I really don't know.
I'm a little new to these videos, so I apologize if this has already been done, but I wonder how many denominations consider themselves to be upholding the traditions and beliefs of the original, ancient church (or are at least trying to do so), and how many make no claim to that.
Every single church makes the claim to upholding the Word of God, to do otherwise would be to out yourself as a non-Christian church. Not all churches make claims to being the One True Church, some protestant churches do, but mostly the Catholic and Orthodox Churches proclaim Primacy. A lot of protestant churches see themselves as being valid churches teaching the Living Word of God alongside Catholics and Orthodoxy, and simply have the massive theological failing between each other, and the Catholic church since Vat. II has accepted the legitimacy of many protestant churches, but with a massive conservative push back from within. Of interesting note, many churches who do claim Primacy do not actively uphold the traditions of the church and the Word of God, but rather use cognitive dissonance against their members to circumvent the bible, as many of their teachings are both unbiblical and blasphemous.
Technically Orthodox are not supposed to pray with other denominations either. There's some exceptions for if you're praying with family who are not Orthodox and I imagine that there could be other exceptions if you talk to your priest or bishop.
One thing he got wrong about the WELS. We have close Communion, yes, but he said that we can only commune with WELS members. That is not true. We commune with any group that we have fellowship with. In the US the WELS is in fellowship with the ELS and with many other groups worldwide.
I just took a Bible Information course at a WELS church, and I asked about the prayer thing. The pastor said that it was totally fine to pray with/for other Christians....I mean the entire class was make up of people who were not in the WELS church, just people contemplating joining, and he prayed with all of us
Conflating praying "with" and praying "for" is a huge issue, so if the question was framed that way, perhaps you didn't get a clear answer. Like all Christians, WELS says it's good to pray for anyone. However, if a WELS pastor says it's OK to pray with anyone, then he's out of step with the denomination. See: wels.net/faq/prayer-fellowship/ and wels.net/faq/prayer-fellowship-2/
I attend an LCMS church. I knew WELS were somewhat radical on their conservative stances, but I didn't know about the prayer thing. I think I've heard they're pacifist too, which at least in regard to nation states makes sense, but not if by pacifist they mean you can't have home defense.
I think this idea might come from the fact that we don't send pastors to be chaplains. Not for pacifism reasons, but because the military requires you to adhere to their basically non denomination views which in many cases are heretical. We are not pacifists in the self defense sense.
WELS is definitely not pacifist. Many WELS members serve in the military and WELS supports those members stationed abroad. As Bob mentions, military chaplains are required to "set aside" their beliefs and minister to all faiths and denominations, including giving of communion, which compromises our tenets of faith. That's why you won't see a WELS pastor serving as a military chaplain but will minister to military members.
When I was in prison, WELS had a series of booklets . There was one on addictions. Simple, and while I might disagree on some theological differences, the little booklet is excellent. ✝️🙏🙂
Hi, I'm a Brazilian Protestant and I'm curious about American Protestant churches, do American churches have hymnals? because here in Brazil each denomination uses a different hymnbook, with different hymns, and if by chance the same hymn happens to be in more than one hymnbook, will this hymn have a different letter, does this happen in US hymnals?
Many Protestant Churches use hymnals.. Some denominations use "their own" special hymnal.. But many have the same hymals/hymns in them. Also, more modern churches sing hymns or 'praise music' on a teleprompter, rather than a physical book... Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "a different letter"... -Some will replace older words with modern words. -Some might call the same hymn a slightly different name. -Some might take a familiar tune and give it a newer, often more liberal set of verses.. But not sure what you mean by "a different letter"
@@matthewbateman6487 is that here in Brazil, as we speak Portuguese most hymns in hinários are hymns in English, it ends up happening that each hymnal will have a different letter for each hymn that is repeated in both, but, with the same melody, it can happen the handwriting is completely different or only a few words are interchanged.
Yes, some churches do use hymnals, mostly the older denominations like Episcopalians, Lutherans, Presbyterians, etc. Usually they are unique to the denomination. Lately we have been projecting alot of hymns onto a screen in some churches.
I got recommended your channel through a friend. Do you know anything about the World Mission Society Church of God? I got recruited into this "church" a couple weeks ago and only went against it when I realized they're a new religious movement over an actual Christian denomination. Thanks again on the video.
The World Mission Society (aka the “mother God” people) is a dangerous cult that preaches a false gospel and believes that their Korean founder is the second coming of Christ. I have encountered some on my college campus and their beliefs are far from biblical. If you want more info, Mike Winger’s UA-cam channel has a very in-depth video about them.
@@tylerwilliams4224 Oh no doubt! I only heard of this cult (I avoided the name of "cult" to avoid any potential keyboard warriors hopping on) through an experience I had with the cult attempting to recruit me. I was just wondering if he had any info on it since he explained other sects within Christianity quite well imo
Correct. And I am in total agreement with what they teach. However modernism and the world has creeped into the Denomination. There is a lot of pressure from within to change the positions you just mentioned.
[looks at WELS church location map] “Aside from absolutely covering Wisconsin and other adjoining states, looks like they’re all over the country” [looks at my own city, which is fairly large but not huge] “Wow, none where I live. Guess it’s just ELCA and LCMS here.” Was a bit surprised by the fact that they have not only a few Atlanta-area churches, but also a _school_ there as well. Must be because of so many Midwesterners moving to the Atlanta area.
WELS and LCMS are very similar. ELCA is progressive and woke. They accept only parts of the Augsburg Confession. They do not accept the whole Bible. At least some of the members consider the sin of Sodom to be inhospitality and call rejecting the idea of homosexuality sodomy, exactly the opposite of its true meaning. The ELCA ordained a lesbian bishop. I would attend almost any protestant church as a visitor despite the known disagreements before entering an ELCE church.
Topic: Theories on how to live the Christian life, like: 100% sanctification, Faith alone (trust in Him . . . He will make your righteousness to go forth as the light; Gal 2:20ff), ingredients approach.
@@MeakH1 I mean, i am Lutheran, but i'm Augsburg Lutheran, the originals in Europe. We're looking at our franchisees and wondering what they're doing with the license 😄
We'd disagree. We hold that we're not influenced by the government's desire to support only one church, so must merge with the reformed church coexisting at the time.
Have you done the Die Hard Traditional Catholics (Latin mass), rebels vs Vatican II changes? even those who consider the current pope an anti-pope? Mel Gibson catholics?
Can you do a video about Christian communist denominations? I feel like not enough fellow Christians here are aware of them, and don‘t seem to know anything about the theological basis of them.
“Ready To Harvest” is an extremely interesting channel. I wish that I had been exposed to something like this as a child and young adult, instead of only being exposed to Catholicism !! RS Canada
Here's a question you. When I googled which religions believe in a life before mortality I was surprised that the major majority of Christian churches teach that as an abomination. So why are there so many songs and poems and other literature that teach this by authors that belong to these denominations? What got me started was a song by Sissel, that was from the perspective of an unborn child waiting. Also from a movie with Shirley Temple, called the Bluebird. Why is this an anti-christian teaching?
Because from our biblical perspective it makes 0 sense. All people are born, mind/soul/spirit and body at once, it is how Adam and Eve were made by God, and it is how God designed childbirth. There is life, and there is death; there is no pre-life where you exist outside of the confines of Creation, so to argue this biblically would not only be an exercise in futility, but also a good way to separate yourself from all of Christendom post-Second Council of Constantinople. The writings of men who claim to follow God have no bearing on the Living Word of God.
My LCMS pastor told me WELS became a thing because LCMS doesn’t govern their churches very strictly, so you’ll find varying degrees of inappropriate activity in LCMS churches, though probably not to the extent that you’d see a female pastor. But even in that WELS churches won’t allow you to take communion in their church if you are a member of a different WELS church, they are quite authoritarian as compared to LCMS.
WELS members can absolutely take communion at other WELS churches. ELS members also can as we are in fellowship. The bit about LCMS is true - I’m a WELS member and would be very comfortable in many LCMS churches, and I utilize a number of LCMS resources. However, doctrine is less consistent across LCMS churches.
It’s worth noting that the WELS and LCMS existed concurrently with each other, occupying different parts of the country, since the 1800s. They’ve always been separate.
@@MdrnNINJAnow no more, now geographic overlap because no more in fellowship and thus in local denominational competition. before they were merely institutionally separate, but denominationally united in confessional church fellowship as Synodical Conference (LCMS, WELS, ELS). WELS and ELS remain in church fellowship with each other to this day.
One thing that I think is worth mentioning is that the first Wels synod was started by a libertarian and was unionistic in its views. It is only after the death of the first generation of German missionaries that it became more conservative in an effort to out Missouri the Missouri synod (to use a Lutheran phrase). It also took on trapping that are not necessarily unLutheran, but not very Lutheran such as wearing the black Geneva gowns that are of Reformed origin as well as using shot glasses for Holy Communion which is not Lutheran or Reformed, but simply silly.
@Stephan Ottawa Did Christ use tiny pieces of individually cooked bread or did he tear from one loaf? Was Christ sitting at a table or was he standing at a rail?
WELS suffers from the old we are the only ones going to heaven or worse believing others are going to heaven but are intentionally causing division in God's church. I am not sure which.
As an lcms lutheran I could never be wels. They won't pray with non members and don't let women vote in the church. That contradicts the bible and is not taught in the bible.
We hold as the Bible does, that while men and womenn ARE equal in God's sight, we do hold different roles. Men are the head of their families as Christ is the Head of His Church. Too many times women are told by men to submit, typically using Ephesians 5. (Well at least the first part of the passage. Because we're sinners, we me often "forget" to see and hold to the second half of the passage where we are to live (and die) for them. Of course there are other verses as well... (! Peter 3:7, Colossians 3:18, ) and men, Ephesians 5:25. Easy to say, hard to do. We live in a sinful world; women probably resent because men don't uphold their end of the deal.
@@legacyandlegend A woman's vote could hold authority over members of a congregation, including men. Men SHOULD listen to women and seek their counsel and exercise their vote accordingly.
@@legacyandlegend If you choose to add context that doesn't exist, sure. It says straight forward and simply, I do not permit a woman to teach or assume authority over a man. Full stop. It doesn't say only for pastors and priests, etc.
WELS is pretty based on most of their views, I mean there are some technicalities and views I don't exactly agree with views like not praying with non-members, but I wouldn't mind getting involved if I had to find a new church.
You said it, "based on their views", like most denominations not having the truth. You must have wondered why they don't all follow the NT when they all claim they do, why the vested interests or just lack of grass roots involvement. My C of E follows the Reformation but my study found many errors which have become Myths from the pulpit, so I have made a Ytube video series 'Myths in so-called Christianity', so that people like us can find the truth.
Luther preferred Grace to Faith, grace is free so thought unmerited, but faith requires good works. But grace is merited as faith only deserves PAST sins forgiven for good works. Luther was so wrong and Abraham so right as we find in Romans 4 in the obedience of faith. I have a Ytube video series called 'Myths in so-called Christianity', and #1 explains from Paul in Romans 11:6 that grace is merited.
LCMS here. We’re sooo close to WELS that I wish we could just get over our differences and unite. 😕 The “prayer thing” is an ~issue~ lol. Also, we allow women Deacons. Don’t know if they’re cool with that, but seeing as how women can’t vote on church issues, imma guess no? Oh, brother 🤦♀️ Whelp, peace be with you 🤷♀️😅
WELS myself, I've never seen the prayer bit taught or enforced. And no, we don't allow women deaconesses. Women can lead things such as altar guild, choir, etc; but when it comes to areas where the Word says men should be the authority such as preaching, church elders, and voting; then we lovingly explain that (to which women typically understand). It's purely done so that we do not sinfully object to the order God intended for the church.
@@restedassurance In the LCMS it's up to each. congregation whether women can vote. Women cannot be president of the voters' assembly or be an Elder. Woman can teach Sunday School.
@@jacksprattt6396 I can see a case for female deacons as they neither teach, nor are they rulers of anything but rather are of service. But I can also see the case for prohibition.
@@restedassurance thank you for your reply. Honestly neither of these issues are hills I’m willing to die on. (And as you said, the “prayer bit” isn’t even taught or enforced.) I’d still like to see our churches unite! I go to LCMS services on a military post because we’re lucky enough to have an LCMS chaplain. Off post, there’s an ELCA church (no thank you) and a WELS church. If our chaplain ever gets sent to another post, we might check out the WELS church.
More properly, only pray with people who are part of WELS or in fellowship with WELS (Still a quite small number of people, but does open it to the ELS and some mostly small denominations in other countries)
To whoever lutheran netvvorks on this channel 》 *read Psalm 105 : 15* entirely . God's annointed one & God's prophet still on for this current time. Btw . . . . who made u became priest , religionytber, religion influencers, lutheran , and such things ?? Pls stop , and repent , God have Love for every attendants of ur religion , CHRIST = LOVE , CHRIST IS LIGHT. There is a news before the news , its by hearing God's prophet
Only ONE Gospel: Gospel of Reconciliation. Jesus Christ came into THEIR kingdom to reconcile fallen angels unto Himself. We are the fallen angels kept in DNA chains of darkness. If you do not confess being a fallen angel in Lucifer's kingdom, then you are an unbeliever. Unbeliever = those that claim to be made in the image of God.
It isn't basic Protestant views if they are confessional Lutheran, they take the Bible as infallible (the final authority), they are less ecunemical, and they do a close communion. How are these "basic Protestant views"?
@@MeakH1😂 every traditional protestant believed that before that funny lawyer(!) Darby arrived in the 19th century and before unbeliever, fed creatir and freemason Untermyer paid Scofield (with his crime allegations background!) to become the multiplyer of Darbys heresy that came from old romish catholic books in a dark poison corner of the local library in England. Nothing to be proud of modern evangelical eschatology. Lutherans just stick to their stuff in general.
We got shown the door of one of these churches. I questioned people why people didn't bring Bibles to church, why communion was closed to believers of other backgrounds, why he prayed to a cross on the wall, with his back to us, and why he was doing all the work while at least half the congregation only showed up for the service? We were told we were not ready to take the new member class (until we got our thinking right)! He was a good teacher, and I liked the music. The liturgical methodology reminded me of my Catholic background from long ago.
@ltcajh Did you seriously ask, "Why did the pastor pray to a cross on the wall?" Because not only is that infantile, it's insulting. It would be like asking a baptist why the congregation prays to a swimming pool while the pastor prays to a sound board. Every WELS church I've been to in the last 30 years either has pew bibles and hymnals, or they use a bulletin with the Scripture readings and liturgy printed out so everyone can participate. All of them have also had a bulletin insert explaining why the WELS practices closed communion. Every church I've ever been to across denominations has people who only come to the service. Some of those people might serve during the week or on Saturday. Also, if you were Roman Catholic once, then you should have at least a vague idea of what the liturgy is and why the pastor faces the directions he does during the service. No one is praying to a cross, as if the direction one is facing means they are praying to the closest physical object. That's absurd and you know it.
@ltcajh you are a massive hypocrite and you've proven my point without realizing it, apparently. Imagine showing up to a church, insulting its members and doctrines, and then complaining that they won't give you communion. Why is it always Baptists who completely lack self-awareness?
The modern Catholic church is not "Jesus's church" I dont think the pope is the antichrist but stop with the bs. Evangelicals are the most like what Jesus wanted tbh
@@diamondgirly2126 Jesus started the Catholic Church. The Eucharist (Communion) is essential to being a Christian. James 6. The body and blood of Christ can only be changed from bread and wine through the power of Jesus through apostolic succession in the Priesthood. The Catholic Church is evangelical. "Modern Evangelicalism" that has nothing to do with the Catholic Church is a man-made-up religion started 500 years ago from the political machinations of angry heretics.
@@diamondgirly2126 I will agree with you on one part. The current pope is not the antichrist, though he acts like it. He is an adulterous idolator. He is heretical. He is a bad representative of Christ. He is a bad abusive father. Jesus said the the gates of Hell would never prevail against His Church. So even bad popes won't destroy what God has made. Neither will heretical man-made-up Lutheran religions.
It is ABSOLUTELY WRONG that WELS members are told that they are only allowed to pray with other WELS members. I have grown up (53 years) in the Wisconsin Synod and I have NEVER been told I’m only allowed to pray with another WELS member. Massive numbers of Christians have received the Holy Spirit’s saving faith through prayers with a Christian who cares about them. By saying what you said, that would mean that any Wisconsin Synod Lutheran church member is wrong to pray with anyone who doesn’t know Jesus and doesn’t know that Jesus died on the cross to pay for all of our sins!! NO ONE, no matter how good they are, can ever earn their way to Heaven. This man’s “fact”, which has been viewed by 30,000 people, needs correcting, in Christian love, so that he stops spreading this misinformation. It’s SO wrong and even frightening that so many people have seen this because it can contribute to turning people away from a church body who preaches and teaches that the Bible is without fault and tho physically written down by men, it’s the ACTUAL AND LITERAL words of God. I pray that once I share this video with my Pastor, he will be able to then share it with the leaders of our Synod so someone can locate him and correct him. Then, hopefully, he will correct this video. Sir, if you read this, please make sure you have ALL of your facts absolutely correct before posting anything about any Christian teachings. Do YOU know that Christ died a HORRIFIC death for YOU?!? He loves you and God loves you so very much!!!!! I will pray for you!!!
That's a whole lot of bellowing to simply indicate you don't know what your own denomination teaches. It's apparent you strongly disagree with your own denomination's positions, but that's not my fault. Here's a quote from the WELS website: QUESTION: Prayer fellowship Is it ever okay to pray with a non-WELS Christian? I have heard some say that it is not because the WELS is the only true church. I have heard others say that in personal situations, it is up to your own discretion. I would like to know if a Christian friend in college and I can say a prayer of thanksgiving before we eat. Thanks. The reason for refraining from praying with people who are outside of our fellowship is not because we do not consider them Christians. We do not pretend to be the only church whose teachings are entirely biblical; the kingdom of God is not limited to WELS. We believe we are holding to the truths of God’s word. If others accuse us of error in doctrine or practice, we are certainly willing and interested to listen, and see what Scripture says about their claims and our confession. ANSWER: The reason for not praying with people who are outside of our fellowship is because Scripture teaches us to work for and preserve the unity of faith (Ephesians 4:3), and not to pretend there is unity when there is not (Romans 16:17; 2 John 10;11). The Bible does not speak of prayer fellowship any differently than other forms of fellowship like worship and joint gospel work. Not praying with your friend can be a good testimony to the truths of God’s word and, perhaps, lead to a meaningful discussion of what the Bible teaches about fellowship principles. wels.net/faq/prayer-fellowship/
baptism does not create faith, only belief + action = faith. and the women shd b able to vote in church especially as the SERVE in the church, just not as pastors.
We hold that Baptism is a Sacrament, an act of Grace; something that God does for us and not a mere ordinance. This is a quote from our website: Since the Bible teaches that we enjoy salvation only through faith in Christ, and since the Bible teaches that baptism saves us and washes away our sins, we can rightfully say that baptism creates the faith that connects us to Jesus and brings into our lives all the blessings he won by his holy life, sacrificial death and glorious resurrection.
@@jacksprattt6396 Baptism is a Sacrament; an act of Grace FROM God. It's something we receive. Some denominations reduce it to an act of obedience; something WE do. Lutherans believe that's a wrong understanding.
IFB pastor in South Carolina here,
All the pastors in my area are watching your videos! Appreciate the hard work brother!
Thank you!
Great video!
We also allow communion with members of synods we are in fellowship with and encourage members to pray when in churches in those synods. In the USA the only other synod is the ELS synod, but internationally there are a number of synods the WELS is in fellowship with.
For being in Wisconsin and former WELS, your concise research is stellar. Even with the craft beer picture of New Glarus, Central Waters, and Untitled Art included within 3 seconds, even got the prost there.
The closed communion aspect can be quite contentious, especially with visitors who didn't consult with the pastor beforehand. The anti-christ pope stance forced Michelle Bachmann (former U.S. Representative in Minnesota, later a Republican candidate for President in 2012) to leave her WELS church.
So she could full-on whacka-do...
True, as soon as I entered into the Church I recently now go to (WELS), I knew I couldn't take communion because I wasn't a member there and I was a member at the ELCA. Taking communion will be a dealbreaker for me (it will be a main reason why I would want to decide sooner on becoming a member there)
@@MeakH1 are you gay? Why are you part of a man-made-up religion? The ELCA?
@Jon Visser read the post again, I was a member there (I am not a member anymore). I became a Christian last year and it was the first church where I officiently went. As I grew in faith, I researched about the ELCA, and as a result I revoked my membership and now I go to a WELS church. Please read my comments, instead of assuming what I am.
@@MeakH1 Sorry about that. I'm glad you're not gay. I used to be in the ELCA also. My youth pastor was a lesbian. Another woman taught us all (both boys and girls in the same room) how to masturbate and that it was good to do so. After my undergrad in Bible and music I converted to the Church Jesus Christ created and maintains: The Catholic Church.
I don't like Lutherans. My whole family is Lutheran.
0:02 As a Wisconsinite, I am overjoyed to catch a glimpse of Central Waters Brewer's Reserve Bourbon Barrel Stout. It is one of the world's finest beers...
Ok, please continue.
Thanks for covering WELS. I am a member, and I love our synod’s consistency. Our seminary does a great job training pastors. Just a few notes I thought I’d add to what you said:
First, I understand how the prohibition on prayer with other Christians rubs many the wrong way. I struggle with it myself at times, though the things I like about the synod outweigh this issue. It is also not something that is taught as hard and fast, our pastors would not hesitate to pray with someone on their deathbed or say grace with non-WELS family at holidays, for example. It’s also not some sort of primary doctrine that’s heavily stressed with the laity. It’s mostly geared toward not wanting pastors or those representing the WELS appearing to show solidarity with those we believe have heterodox doctrine. Guarding fellowship goes way back to the reformation in Lutheranism, when there were issues with reformed theology infiltrating the church after the smalcald wars.
Second, the Pope as Antichrist also is a traditional Lutheran interpretation. We translate the “anti” as “in place of”, not “against”. This is also not some sort of primary doctrine, more of an “our best guess”.
Thanks for your great videos!
As someone very much in the Reformed tradition (OPC), I understand, and respect much of WELS teaching. closed communion and I understand the concept of closed prayer. I am gratified that it is not hard and fast on the last though as that would be legalistic.
Luther was the origim of the concept of the Pope as antiChrist. The Pope Luther dealt with pretty much was An antiChrist. The point of doctrine for which Luther was forced to head his own church was Leo X's Sale of indulgences. The Council of Trent declared that anathema without naming names.
The reason I was given for closed prayer is to avoid pastors being under pressure to compromise if they led public prayer.
I consider myself LCMS but my mother and brother are members of a WELS congregation
I am LCMS and we have a few people from the WELS attending our church - there is no WELS church probably for a good 150 miles or so. Our pastor welcomes them for Holy Communion. He doesn’t want them to go without the Sacrament, even though technically the LCMS wouldn’t allow them to commune, and the WELS wouldn’t allow them to approach.
Exactly. I pray with my Baptist family without any issues, and with the approval of my Pastor. But would I attend Sunday service at a baptist church? By no means.
@@markhorton3994Luther was not the origin. Wycliffe in 1360 said it way before him and many others as well.
Am I the only one that burst out laughing when Joshua said that Lutheranism is a major export of Wisconsin? 😁
"WELS members are not to pray together with people who are not also part of WELS."
I used to be part of a WELS congregation. My relatives who are WELS and I completely ignored this, choosing instead to pray as a family regardless of denominational affiliation. I suspect this is quite common.
The prohibition on prayer is only there to reinforce the idea that WELS agrees with other denominations that get things wrong. You and everyone in ELS/WELS are more than welcome to privately pray with any true Christian, and no one will object.
As a Norwegian Lutheran currently in the United States, I have wanted to take part in worship. I am going to a church belonging to the Evangelical Lutheran Synod, a denomination in fellowship with WELS. Closed communion is a bit strange, but they do want people to be safe, understand and follow the teaching before allowing them to partake.
While the church is very welcoming, I am not sure if I am able to join in communion. I am only going to stay for a few months. It would also be difficult if it meant changing membership in Norway. Most Lutherans in Norway are members of the Church of Norway, even if they would not belong to the same synod in the US. The churches in fellowship with the WELS and ELS in Norway is also very tiny and not an option where I'm from.
Hi friend! I’m a member of the ELS; if you’re communing at the ELS church you’re attending, you should have no problem communing at a WELS church. Just make sure to talk to the pastor beforehand and let him know you’re associated with the ELS.
@@MdrnNINJA I am not communing, only joining for worship. Similar to most Norwegian Lutherans, I am a member of the Church of Norway.
0:39 Yes and no, WELS allows not only members of WELS to take communion but also synods that are in agreement with their doctrine. ELS members can take communion at a WELS church.
Absolutely. Anyone part of the Confessional Evangelical Lutheran Conference, founded in 1993, is in communion with WELS. It is a pretty small group, as membership goes. ELS, the only other US body is about 1/10 the size of WELS.
@@ReadyToHarvest Thanks, I just wanted to clarify it because WELS wants those in full doctrinal agreement to be apart of communion. Consequently, I cant partake in communion because I am not a member tgere and before entering into the Church, I was from the ELCA (revoked my membership there).
This.
@@johnhouchins3156 Hello, are you in WELS?
@@MeakH1 Yes. Happily.
What's their justification for prohibiting prayer with members of other denominations? That practice rubs me the wrong way
They are less ecunemical and think that the people we are praying with have to be in agremeents with the doctrine. It makes sense.
The LCMS, founded by conservative Germans who aren't fun-haters...
WELS, taking fun-hating to a new level... LOL!!!
We rejoice in your Christianity, but we feel it is wrong to validate any heterodox doctrine your church may hold. Praying with you is a sign of Fellowship, a sign of being in complete agreement. We're not in complete agreement. Does this mean we believe Heaven will be full of only WELS Lutherans? No. We believe that we want to be correct in all of Our doctrine. Putting the best light possible (as the eighth commandment teaches us) tells us that's what other denominations want to do as well. Until we agree on what that doctrine is, We can't validate it with you. would youu pray together with another who doesn't hold to the Trinity, for example? Why would you? That's a Fundamental holding of the Christian faith. Hope this helps explain.
I agree, doesn’t make sense to me either
@The Pt Host I look at it this way, would you pray with someone that has major differences between Christianity and isn't in full agreement with the Trinity, and with free grace theology?
Great job again as always!!!!!!
You know what would be a FASCINATING video? A 2-5 minute video that does a short 'rapid fire' overview on the 'bottom line' rulings of the 21 Ecumenical Councils.
Most Christians are *somewhat* familiar with the rulings of the 'Council of Nicaea' but would probably find it fascinating to hear about the rulings of the other 20.
That does sound interesting!
A college friend had me over for Thanksgiving while I was in seminary. Her family is WELS. Her mom, quite the rebel, asked me to say the blessing: “pastor Chris will say the blessing.” Her father opened his mouth to protest, but she hit him and said a bit louder, “PASTOR CHRIS WILL SAY THE BLESSING!” At the time, I didn’t know what was going on… but I do now! 😂
Love it! Especially since it was a *woman* insisting on it.
@mariahsheehy5917 yeah, it's great when women disrespect their husbands and piss on their own faith.
@@yellowblackbird9000👍
It's always unfortunate when WELS members don't follow their own church's doctrine.
@mariahsheehy5917 You probably love that Eve ate the fruit too lol.
Thanks for your coverage of my Church!
Do You pray with other Christians?
@@angelbonilla2255 I probably have. I was never taught this practice however. I will have to ask about it.
@@angelbonilla2255 I grew up LCMS and still am LCMS - we do not pray with others. Lutheran pastors do not participate in prayer with other religions or stand with pastors of other religions or denominations. When you pray with someone of a different faith you are accepting their faith.
@@jacksprattt6396 Thanks for the clarification Jack. This makes sense.
@@jacksprattt6396 , with another Christian? you will not pray with another Christian? not even the Lord's Prayer?
I was raised WELS, and I'm amazed at the amount of misconceptions which surround the church. There's really nothing more happening in WELS than what this content creator has stated. I have excellent memories of my pastor and congregation. If I were to move back to my hometown (rural WI), I would attend my old church again 😊
😂
WELS is in fellowship with the Evangelical Lutheran Synod (ELS), which is based in Minnesota.
I appreciate Joshua 's videos alot as someone who is interested in religions. As a non-Christian I can't really understand all the disputes and distinctions among all the denominations and sub-denominations, but from what I can understand, it seems as though WELS and ELCA are really separate but similar religions altogether.
WELS and ELCA are both Lutheran, however the ELCA Lutheran have a more broad interpretation of Lutheranism and don't have a problem with modern science. WELS are Fundamentalist, reject some things about modern science, and have some peculiar attitudes or doctrines at times, and are more sectarian.
@@Magnulus76 But WELS is rather separatist, so it seems like there are separate religions.
@@dovygoodguy1296 Yes, they are separate institutions, but both are Lutheran and share common doctrines and history. Where they differ is interpretation of doctrine in its application, and certain religious practices (WELS don't believe in evolution, do not believe in the spiritual equality of men and women, and won't even pray with other Lutherans).
WELS are creationists, so yeah, they reject modern science.
There was a WELS church directly next to my family’s farm. I would attend their services as a kid, even though I’m Catholic. I had a lot of fun debating their pastor. Good people, though it would be interesting when they’d have a visiting minister who would rail against the Pope, and my friends would chuckle with me (including one of the girls my age who went to a Catholic school).
@@curtbrockhaus6131 Or just wanted to preach what their church teaches? They had no way of knowing they had a bored Catholic in the pews.
I didn’t take any offense.
I love that you attended their church even as a Catholic.
Hi - could you please do a deep dive (or 2 min video like this) on The Episcopal Church? Thank you!
good work brother.
in christ, Ch sushil from India.
I know of at least one WELS church where ELS members are invited for the Lord's Supper as well
The two synods are in fellowship so this is true at all WELS churches.
My comment already addressed this and Joshua agreed with me on it.
WELS is in fellowship with ELS which is Evangelical Lutheran Synod I think.
The difference between WELS and Lutheran Church Missouri Synod ( LCMS ) is that WELS is more closed than LCMS. Some LCMS congregations sponsored Boy Scout troups which require believing in Some God which violates WELS closedness and LCMS joined an international association of Lutheran demoninations some of which have different theology so WELS disfellowshiped.
You should probably have mentioned that there are other (confessional) Lutheran denominations with exactly the same theology as WELS but the biggest ( ELCA ) very much differs. (ELCA ordained a lesbian bishop).
Sort of. Fellowship broke between the WELS and LCMS when the Synodical conference dissolved as a result of an LCMS seminary allowing for the historical critical method to be taught. The remnant of the Synodical Conference is the fellowship between the WELS and ELS, which is still in good standing with each other. The LCMS has since gotten involved with other global Lutheran church bodies, as have the WELS and ELS.
@@MdrnNINJA I have from WELS, LCMS and AALC sources that it WELS disfellowshiped LCMS as a reaction to LCMS joining an international association of Lutheran denominations some of which are liberal. One source mentioned the disagreement over Boy Scout troups.
@@markhorton3994 You may be misunderstanding the citations. Sure, the Boy Scouts thing is an issue that came up, but it’s not a sole reason ties were cut. And you’re right, there were certain exploratory talks that the LCMS did with other synods, but there were other issues brewing in the LCMS’s St. Louis Seminary (which ultimately led to Seminex, or Seminary in Exile in 1974), that were seen by the ELS and WELS as major breaking points, and finally led to the dissolution of the Synodical Conference. The ELS suspended fellowship in 1955, the WELS in 1961. As it stands, it’s easier to break fellowship than it is to declare it, so certain disagreements (such as the Boy Scouts) make it harder for re-unity to take place.
I need your advice. I’m trying to find a live stream Conservative Lutheran church on UA-cam. Can you refer me to one? Thank you.
Wisconsin here
Yet still non-denominational
Early church history and apostolic doctrines is where I'm at
While waiting and hoping for the restoration of the whole church
@Methodius of Thessaloniki rather Catholic :)
@YAJUN YUAN meh. Manmade in 19th century.
@YAJUN YUAN you guys are refering always to the Council of 325 whichs mane discusion was the divinity of Christ since Arianism was the meaning that Christ had no divine nature bur was just like a hero. Thanks to that council you got the Trinity in which you too believe. And this was not 3rd century but 4th century.
The Church was made by Christ and we know it because first, the teaching from the early Church are present today in the same Church and second, the Catholic Church was a common knowledge already since the start. Take it from Ignatius of Antioch (32-110), bishop of Antioch, the place where christians first started to call themselfs christians and who was also a student of John the apostle:
"Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful to baptize or give communion without the consent of the bishop. On the other hand, whatever has his approval is pleasing to God. Thus, whatever is done will be safe and valid."
- Letter to the Smyrnaeans 8,
@YAJUN YUAN that new age christians think that they know it better than the early Christians and apostles isn't new. That the Church was corrupted since the begining would mean that it is not "house of God and pillar and foundation of the Truth (1st Timothy 3:15) and that the gates of Hell prevailed against it, which is not what Jesus promissed. Without that Church you wouldn't get the Bible since its first canon was created in 382. You got that same Bible but shortened by 7 books.
The word Trinity like the word pope isn't in the Bible but it's descriptions are. And thats why it was visible in the eaely Church history. No matter how much the pope falls in sin, he is still the chosen by the Holy Spirit. You got a Peter who denounced the living Christ 3 times and Jesus chose him to lead his flock and forgave this terrible sin. Even though John was kinda favorable. When the 2 ran to Jesus tomb, John came first but waited Peter to enter first, because he knew Peter was the leader in the Kings current absentism. Peter was breaking bread first among them, Peter was leading the council of Jerusalem, Peter chose Mathias in the name of the Holy Ghost as apostle in Acts. If this werent enough, you got early Church history which described the Church in Rome the first seat. This is meant like this since you also got the seat of Moses before. There sits the King. After the King is not there, then his right hand man rules. From where you got that atheists baptise others , I really don't know.
😂😂😂
Thanks for covering my former denomination which some of us refer to as the "Frozen Chosen"
could you do a video explaining the „new independent fundamental baptist“ churches?
I'm a little new to these videos, so I apologize if this has already been done, but I wonder how many denominations consider themselves to be upholding the traditions and beliefs of the original, ancient church (or are at least trying to do so), and how many make no claim to that.
Every single church makes the claim to upholding the Word of God, to do otherwise would be to out yourself as a non-Christian church. Not all churches make claims to being the One True Church, some protestant churches do, but mostly the Catholic and Orthodox Churches proclaim Primacy. A lot of protestant churches see themselves as being valid churches teaching the Living Word of God alongside Catholics and Orthodoxy, and simply have the massive theological failing between each other, and the Catholic church since Vat. II has accepted the legitimacy of many protestant churches, but with a massive conservative push back from within. Of interesting note, many churches who do claim Primacy do not actively uphold the traditions of the church and the Word of God, but rather use cognitive dissonance against their members to circumvent the bible, as many of their teachings are both unbiblical and blasphemous.
Technically Orthodox are not supposed to pray with other denominations either. There's some exceptions for if you're praying with family who are not Orthodox and I imagine that there could be other exceptions if you talk to your priest or bishop.
One thing he got wrong about the WELS. We have close Communion, yes, but he said that we can only commune with WELS members. That is not true. We commune with any group that we have fellowship with. In the US the WELS is in fellowship with the ELS and with many other groups worldwide.
I just took a Bible Information course at a WELS church, and I asked about the prayer thing. The pastor said that it was totally fine to pray with/for other Christians....I mean the entire class was make up of people who were not in the WELS church, just people contemplating joining, and he prayed with all of us
Conflating praying "with" and praying "for" is a huge issue, so if the question was framed that way, perhaps you didn't get a clear answer. Like all Christians, WELS says it's good to pray for anyone. However, if a WELS pastor says it's OK to pray with anyone, then he's out of step with the denomination. See: wels.net/faq/prayer-fellowship/
and
wels.net/faq/prayer-fellowship-2/
I attend an LCMS church. I knew WELS were somewhat radical on their conservative stances, but I didn't know about the prayer thing. I think I've heard they're pacifist too, which at least in regard to nation states makes sense, but not if by pacifist they mean you can't have home defense.
I think this idea might come from the fact that we don't send pastors to be chaplains. Not for pacifism reasons, but because the military requires you to adhere to their basically non denomination views which in many cases are heretical. We are not pacifists in the self defense sense.
WELS is definitely not pacifist. Many WELS members serve in the military and WELS supports those members stationed abroad. As Bob mentions, military chaplains are required to "set aside" their beliefs and minister to all faiths and denominations, including giving of communion, which compromises our tenets of faith. That's why you won't see a WELS pastor serving as a military chaplain but will minister to military members.
@@markpatoka We’re LCMS/Army. My Chaplain will not serve communion to non-LCMS. He is free to follow our faith to the letter.
The LCMS does not pray with others either. If you pray with people of other religions what God/god are you praying to?
@@jacksprattt6396 We pray with other Christian denominations but generally avoid praying with people of other religions.
When I was in prison, WELS had a series of booklets . There was one on addictions. Simple, and while I might disagree on some theological differences, the little booklet is excellent.
✝️🙏🙂
❤
On a more serious tone, there are a few splits from W.E.L.S. One is the Illinois Lutheran Conference which is KJV only.
😂
The Evangelical Lutheran Synod of Mankato, Minnnesota is in full fellowship with the WELS. Therefore we do Commune with WELS members.
Hi, I'm a Brazilian Protestant and I'm curious about American Protestant churches, do American churches have hymnals?
because here in Brazil each denomination uses a different hymnbook, with different hymns, and if by chance the same hymn happens to be in more than one hymnbook, will this hymn have a different letter, does this happen in US hymnals?
In the Anglican Church In North America, our hymnbook is the Book of Common Praise.
I'm not sure what you mean by different letter.
@@jeffkardosjr.3825 He means a hymn with the same melody but a different translation or content of the other
Many Protestant Churches use hymnals.. Some denominations use "their own" special hymnal.. But many have the same hymals/hymns in them. Also, more modern churches sing hymns or 'praise music' on a teleprompter, rather than a physical book...
Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "a different letter"...
-Some will replace older words with modern words.
-Some might call the same hymn a slightly different name.
-Some might take a familiar tune and give it a newer, often more liberal set of verses..
But not sure what you mean by "a different letter"
@@matthewbateman6487 is that here in Brazil, as we speak Portuguese most hymns in hinários are hymns in English, it ends up happening that each hymnal will have a different letter for each hymn that is repeated in both, but, with the same melody, it can happen the handwriting is completely different or only a few words are interchanged.
Yes, some churches do use hymnals, mostly the older denominations like Episcopalians, Lutherans, Presbyterians, etc. Usually they are unique to the denomination. Lately we have been projecting alot of hymns onto a screen in some churches.
I got recommended your channel through a friend. Do you know anything about the World Mission Society Church of God? I got recruited into this "church" a couple weeks ago and only went against it when I realized they're a new religious movement over an actual Christian denomination. Thanks again on the video.
The World Mission Society (aka the “mother God” people) is a dangerous cult that preaches a false gospel and believes that their Korean founder is the second coming of Christ. I have encountered some on my college campus and their beliefs are far from biblical. If you want more info, Mike Winger’s UA-cam channel has a very in-depth video about them.
@@tylerwilliams4224 Oh no doubt! I only heard of this cult (I avoided the name of "cult" to avoid any potential keyboard warriors hopping on) through an experience I had with the cult attempting to recruit me. I was just wondering if he had any info on it since he explained other sects within Christianity quite well imo
Correct. And I am in total agreement with what they teach. However modernism and the world has creeped into the Denomination. There is a lot of pressure from within to change the positions you just mentioned.
Their stance on prayer is unfounded biblically.
I believe it grieves the Holy Spirit
[looks at WELS church location map]
“Aside from absolutely covering Wisconsin and other adjoining states, looks like they’re all over the country”
[looks at my own city, which is fairly large but not huge]
“Wow, none where I live. Guess it’s just ELCA and LCMS here.”
Was a bit surprised by the fact that they have not only a few Atlanta-area churches, but also a _school_ there as well. Must be because of so many Midwesterners moving to the Atlanta area.
WELS and LCMS are very similar. ELCA is progressive and woke. They accept only parts of the Augsburg Confession. They do not accept the whole Bible. At least some of the members consider the sin of Sodom to be inhospitality and call rejecting the idea of homosexuality sodomy, exactly the opposite of its true meaning. The ELCA ordained a lesbian bishop. I would attend almost any protestant church as a visitor despite the known disagreements before entering an ELCE church.
there's a WELS locator of Find WELS church or school at the top of their website. you can search for any kind of entity with them there.
Topic: Theories on how to live the Christian life, like: 100% sanctification, Faith alone (trust in Him . . . He will make your righteousness to go forth as the light; Gal 2:20ff), ingredients approach.
Man, so much to agree with and then they catch you out with some really weird stuff.
Right? Recently, I attended a WELS church and I went to their Bible study (after Mass) and they do take the Bible as inherrant to a strong level.
The people at the Church I go to now (WELS) were nice people.
@@MeakH1 I mean, i am Lutheran, but i'm Augsburg Lutheran, the originals in Europe. We're looking at our franchisees and wondering what they're doing with the license 😄
We'd disagree. We hold that we're not influenced by the government's desire to support only one church, so must merge with the reformed church coexisting at the time.
@@MilitantOldLady What synod is Augsburg Lutheran?
Have you done the Die Hard Traditional Catholics (Latin mass), rebels vs Vatican II changes? even those who consider the current pope an anti-pope? Mel Gibson catholics?
I myself am a WELS Lutheran. Their stance on prayer with people outside of membership I don't recall ever being taught. Maybe I just missed it.
Can you do a video about Christian communist denominations? I feel like not enough fellow Christians here are aware of them, and don‘t seem to know anything about the theological basis of them.
Like JPUSA?
@@slamdancer1720Jonestown!
nice breakdown
Hello from Wisconsin! And in Green Bay!
“Ready To Harvest” is an extremely interesting channel.
I wish that I had been exposed to something like this as a child and young adult, instead of only being exposed to Catholicism !!
RS
Canada
are you still catholic?
And what's wrong with catholicism??
@@richardcarroll9864I think OP simply means he (assuming due to username) wishes he would've known more about OTHER denominations.
@@katie7748 What stopped him from inquiring about other denominations?
@@valentinr.dominguez2892 he was a child.
Here's a question you.
When I googled which religions believe in a life before mortality I was surprised that the major majority of Christian churches teach that as an abomination.
So why are there so many songs and poems and other literature that teach this by authors that belong to these denominations?
What got me started was a song by Sissel, that was from the perspective of an unborn child waiting.
Also from a movie with Shirley Temple, called the Bluebird.
Why is this an anti-christian teaching?
Because from our biblical perspective it makes 0 sense. All people are born, mind/soul/spirit and body at once, it is how Adam and Eve were made by God, and it is how God designed childbirth. There is life, and there is death; there is no pre-life where you exist outside of the confines of Creation, so to argue this biblically would not only be an exercise in futility, but also a good way to separate yourself from all of Christendom post-Second Council of Constantinople. The writings of men who claim to follow God have no bearing on the Living Word of God.
@@toilet_cleaner_man WOW, that's just heart breaking.
Please do the Reformed Church in America.
My LCMS pastor told me WELS became a thing because LCMS doesn’t govern their churches very strictly, so you’ll find varying degrees of inappropriate activity in LCMS churches, though probably not to the extent that you’d see a female pastor. But even in that WELS churches won’t allow you to take communion in their church if you are a member of a different WELS church, they are quite authoritarian as compared to LCMS.
WELS members can absolutely take communion at other WELS churches. ELS members also can as we are in fellowship. The bit about LCMS is true - I’m a WELS member and would be very comfortable in many LCMS churches, and I utilize a number of LCMS resources. However, doctrine is less consistent across LCMS churches.
It’s worth noting that the WELS and LCMS existed concurrently with each other, occupying different parts of the country, since the 1800s. They’ve always been separate.
@@MdrnNINJAnow no more, now geographic overlap because no more in fellowship and thus in local denominational competition.
before they were merely institutionally separate, but denominationally united in confessional church fellowship as Synodical Conference (LCMS, WELS, ELS). WELS and ELS remain in church fellowship with each other to this day.
@@chrise-ih4ix I know. I’m ELS.
You missed The Green Bay Packers and Vince Lombardi and The Milwaukee Brewers.
Martin Luther never wanted a church named after him.
Nice Job!
There had better be some good sauerkraut and wurst after the service or I'm not going. 🍺 🍺 🍺
pastor fry i know him
One thing that I think is worth mentioning is that the first Wels synod was started by a libertarian and was unionistic in its views. It is only after the death of the first generation of German missionaries that it became more conservative in an effort to out Missouri the Missouri synod (to use a Lutheran phrase). It also took on trapping that are not necessarily unLutheran, but not very Lutheran such as wearing the black Geneva gowns that are of Reformed origin as well as using shot glasses for Holy Communion which is not Lutheran or Reformed, but simply silly.
There is nothing wrong with using small cups for communion.
@@chemnitzfan654 Did Christ use them at the Last Supper?
@Stephan Ottawa Did Christ use tiny pieces of individually cooked bread or did he tear from one loaf?
Was Christ sitting at a table or was he standing at a rail?
Glory to God.
Their Grace Message is correct, but when it comes to Eschatology, let's just say the Bible is read with blinders on.
Damn, and I thought I hated the pope, but i dont have anything on these guys. The anti-Christ? Sheesh, a little strong for a mere human.
I think it's nuts too. No one knows who or what the anti Christ will be. It's vain to speculate
Proud WELS guy here!
😊
WELS suffers from the old we are the only ones going to heaven or worse believing others are going to heaven but are intentionally causing division in God's church.
I am not sure which.
Only WELS members can pray together? What????
As an lcms lutheran I could never be wels. They won't pray with non members and don't let women vote in the church. That contradicts the bible and is not taught in the bible.
1 Timothy 2:12 NIV - I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.
That means to be a pastor or leader in the church over a man. Wrong context. Try again.
We hold as the Bible does, that while men and womenn ARE equal in God's sight, we do hold different roles. Men are the head of their families as Christ is the Head of His Church.
Too many times women are told by men to submit, typically using Ephesians 5. (Well at least the first part of the passage. Because we're sinners, we me often "forget" to see and hold to the second half of the passage where we are to live (and die) for them.
Of course there are other verses as well... (! Peter 3:7, Colossians 3:18, ) and men, Ephesians 5:25.
Easy to say, hard to do. We live in a sinful world; women probably resent because men don't uphold their end of the deal.
@@legacyandlegend A woman's vote could hold authority over members of a congregation, including men. Men SHOULD listen to women and seek their counsel and exercise their vote accordingly.
@@legacyandlegend If you choose to add context that doesn't exist, sure.
It says straight forward and simply, I do not permit a woman to teach or assume authority over a man. Full stop. It doesn't say only for pastors and priests, etc.
WELS is pretty based on most of their views, I mean there are some technicalities and views I don't exactly agree with views like not praying with non-members, but I wouldn't mind getting involved if I had to find a new church.
You said it, "based on their views", like most denominations not having the truth. You must have wondered why they don't all follow the NT when they all claim they do, why the vested interests or just lack of grass roots involvement.
My C of E follows the Reformation but my study found many errors which have become Myths from the pulpit, so I have made a Ytube video series 'Myths in so-called Christianity', so that people like us can find the truth.
@@simonskinner1450 , based means agreeable in this context, not from.
@@zane_wiley mmm.
They don't usually like other views, hence all the denominations.
Basically, Modernist (Fuzzy-felt Banner) Catholicism .. without the Pope.
God bless. ;o)
Luther preferred Grace to Faith, grace is free so thought unmerited, but faith requires good works. But grace is merited as faith only deserves PAST sins forgiven for good works.
Luther was so wrong and Abraham so right as we find in Romans 4 in the obedience of faith. I have a Ytube video series called 'Myths in so-called Christianity', and #1 explains from Paul in Romans 11:6 that grace is merited.
1:07 🙊🤤😦
LCMS here. We’re sooo close to WELS that I wish we could just get over our differences and unite. 😕 The “prayer thing” is an ~issue~ lol. Also, we allow women Deacons. Don’t know if they’re cool with that, but seeing as how women can’t vote on church issues, imma guess no? Oh, brother 🤦♀️ Whelp, peace be with you 🤷♀️😅
WELS myself, I've never seen the prayer bit taught or enforced. And no, we don't allow women deaconesses. Women can lead things such as altar guild, choir, etc; but when it comes to areas where the Word says men should be the authority such as preaching, church elders, and voting; then we lovingly explain that (to which women typically understand). It's purely done so that we do not sinfully object to the order God intended for the church.
@@restedassurance In the LCMS it's up to each. congregation whether women can vote. Women cannot be president of the voters' assembly or be an Elder. Woman can teach Sunday School.
@@jacksprattt6396 I can see a case for female deacons as they neither teach, nor are they rulers of anything but rather are of service. But I can also see the case for prohibition.
@@restedassurance thank you for your reply. Honestly neither of these issues are hills I’m willing to die on. (And as you said, the “prayer bit” isn’t even taught or enforced.) I’d still like to see our churches unite! I go to LCMS services on a military post because we’re lucky enough to have an LCMS chaplain. Off post, there’s an ELCA church (no thank you) and a WELS church. If our chaplain ever gets sent to another post, we might check out the WELS church.
The LCMS and WELS were once in fellowship and members of the Synodical Conference, along with the ELS. But all that came to an end about 1960.
"WELS members are not to pray together with people who are not also part of WELS". Not ture
More properly, only pray with people who are part of WELS or in fellowship with WELS (Still a quite small number of people, but does open it to the ELS and some mostly small denominations in other countries)
They oppose baptism of the holy spirit? I don't think any church should do that. I just started going to a Calvary chapel
Water Baptism is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
To whoever lutheran netvvorks on this channel 》 *read Psalm 105 : 15* entirely . God's annointed one & God's prophet still on for this current time.
Btw . . . . who made u became priest , religionytber, religion influencers, lutheran , and such things ??
Pls stop , and repent , God have Love for every attendants of ur religion , CHRIST = LOVE , CHRIST IS LIGHT. There is a news before the news , its by hearing God's prophet
Only ONE Gospel:
Gospel of Reconciliation.
Jesus Christ came into THEIR kingdom
to reconcile fallen angels unto Himself.
We are the fallen angels kept in DNA chains of darkness.
If you do not confess being a fallen angel in Lucifer's kingdom, then you are an unbeliever.
Unbeliever = those that claim to be made in the image of God.
I just can't accept these ideas about women and other Christians. Sorry. I'm sure they are fine people.
I do not permit a woman to speak (1 Timothy 2:12). Your argument is with God.
@@slamdancer1720 God and I are fine, thanks.
@@squidward5110 satire?
I get what you are saying, you are welcome to go to the ELCA, they are the most liberal lutheran body and are "evangelical"
@@squidward5110 what denomination/religion are you?
they have basic protestant views. such as viewing the papacy as the anti christ
It isn't basic Protestant views if they are confessional Lutheran, they take the Bible as infallible (the final authority), they are less ecunemical, and they do a close communion.
How are these "basic Protestant views"?
@@MeakH1😂 every traditional protestant believed that before that funny lawyer(!) Darby arrived in the 19th century and before unbeliever, fed creatir and freemason Untermyer paid Scofield (with his crime allegations background!) to become the multiplyer of Darbys heresy that came from old romish catholic books in a dark poison corner of the local library in England. Nothing to be proud of modern evangelical eschatology. Lutherans just stick to their stuff in general.
We got shown the door of one of these churches. I questioned people why people didn't bring Bibles to church, why communion was closed to believers of other backgrounds, why he prayed to a cross on the wall, with his back to us, and why he was doing all the work while at least half the congregation only showed up for the service? We were told we were not ready to take the new member class (until we got our thinking right)! He was a good teacher, and I liked the music. The liturgical methodology reminded me of my Catholic background from long ago.
So you showed up and insulted them and they didn't like it? Why was that surprising to you?
@@chemnitzfan654 It's insulting to ask the pastor questions? Martin Luther is insulting then! For that matter, Jesus was insulting, by your reasoning!
@ltcajh Did you seriously ask, "Why did the pastor pray to a cross on the wall?" Because not only is that infantile, it's insulting. It would be like asking a baptist why the congregation prays to a swimming pool while the pastor prays to a sound board. Every WELS church I've been to in the last 30 years either has pew bibles and hymnals, or they use a bulletin with the Scripture readings and liturgy printed out so everyone can participate. All of them have also had a bulletin insert explaining why the WELS practices closed communion. Every church I've ever been to across denominations has people who only come to the service. Some of those people might serve during the week or on Saturday. Also, if you were Roman Catholic once, then you should have at least a vague idea of what the liturgy is and why the pastor faces the directions he does during the service. No one is praying to a cross, as if the direction one is facing means they are praying to the closest physical object. That's absurd and you know it.
@@chemnitzfan654 Just like a Pharisee! Not much different than my Catholic upbringing.
@ltcajh you are a massive hypocrite and you've proven my point without realizing it, apparently. Imagine showing up to a church, insulting its members and doctrines, and then complaining that they won't give you communion. Why is it always Baptists who completely lack self-awareness?
Yeah! I'm Catholic. A Lutheran convert. It's always great to hear that Jesus brought me into His Church, the "antichrist church."
The modern Catholic church is not "Jesus's church" I dont think the pope is the antichrist but stop with the bs. Evangelicals are the most like what Jesus wanted tbh
@@diamondgirly2126 Jesus started the Catholic Church. The Eucharist (Communion) is essential to being a Christian. James 6. The body and blood of Christ can only be changed from bread and wine through the power of Jesus through apostolic succession in the Priesthood.
The Catholic Church is evangelical. "Modern Evangelicalism" that has nothing to do with the Catholic Church is a man-made-up religion started 500 years ago from the political machinations of angry heretics.
@@diamondgirly2126 well, the problem is that the early Church is disagreeing with you. :)
@@diamondgirly2126 I will agree with you on one part. The current pope is not the antichrist, though he acts like it. He is an adulterous idolator. He is heretical. He is a bad representative of Christ. He is a bad abusive father.
Jesus said the the gates of Hell would never prevail against His Church. So even bad popes won't destroy what God has made. Neither will heretical man-made-up Lutheran religions.
@@classicalteacher Yes and protestants also have that as a sacrament, the only difference is we believe its not literally his blood.
L A E S T A D I A N I S M . . .
😂
It is ABSOLUTELY WRONG that WELS members are told that they are only allowed to pray with other WELS members. I have grown up (53 years) in the Wisconsin Synod and I have NEVER been told I’m only allowed to pray with another WELS member. Massive numbers of Christians have received the Holy Spirit’s saving faith through prayers with a Christian who cares about them. By saying what you said, that would mean that any Wisconsin Synod Lutheran church member is wrong to pray with anyone who doesn’t know Jesus and doesn’t know that Jesus died on the cross to pay for all of our sins!! NO ONE, no matter how good they are, can ever earn their way to Heaven. This man’s “fact”, which has been viewed by 30,000 people, needs correcting, in Christian love, so that he stops spreading this misinformation. It’s SO wrong and even frightening that so many people have seen this because it can contribute to turning people away from a church body who preaches and teaches that the Bible is without fault and tho physically written down by men, it’s the ACTUAL AND LITERAL words of God. I pray that once I share this video with my Pastor, he will be able to then share it with the leaders of our Synod so someone can locate him and correct him. Then, hopefully, he will correct this video. Sir, if you read this, please make sure you have ALL of your facts absolutely correct before posting anything about any Christian teachings. Do YOU know that Christ died a HORRIFIC death for YOU?!? He loves you and God loves you so very much!!!!! I will pray for you!!!
That's a whole lot of bellowing to simply indicate you don't know what your own denomination teaches. It's apparent you strongly disagree with your own denomination's positions, but that's not my fault.
Here's a quote from the WELS website:
QUESTION: Prayer fellowship
Is it ever okay to pray with a non-WELS Christian? I have heard some say that it is not because the WELS is the only true church. I have heard others say that in personal situations, it is up to your own discretion. I would like to know if a Christian friend in college and I can say a prayer of thanksgiving before we eat. Thanks.
The reason for refraining from praying with people who are outside of our fellowship is not because we do not consider them Christians. We do not pretend to be the only church whose teachings are entirely biblical; the kingdom of God is not limited to WELS. We believe we are holding to the truths of God’s word. If others accuse us of error in doctrine or practice, we are certainly willing and interested to listen, and see what Scripture says about their claims and our confession.
ANSWER: The reason for not praying with people who are outside of our fellowship is because Scripture teaches us to work for and preserve the unity of faith (Ephesians 4:3), and not to pretend there is unity when there is not (Romans 16:17; 2 John 10;11).
The Bible does not speak of prayer fellowship any differently than other forms of fellowship like worship and joint gospel work. Not praying with your friend can be a good testimony to the truths of God’s word and, perhaps, lead to a meaningful discussion of what the Bible teaches about fellowship principles.
wels.net/faq/prayer-fellowship/
you missed a lot even with the facts you tried to give
Sure, it's a two minute video. Watch the twenty minute video for a bigger picture: ua-cam.com/video/AhQcJH03sQo/v-deo.html
Thing is correct except for only men voting women are also able to vote on issues regarding the church
You are incorrect on this. wels.net/faq/congregational-voting-and-women/
pretty cultish in actuality - stick with the LCMS for conservative Lutheranism.
baptism does not create faith, only belief + action = faith. and the women shd b able to vote in church especially as the SERVE in the church, just not as pastors.
We hold that Baptism is a Sacrament, an act of Grace; something that God does for us and not a mere ordinance. This is a quote from our website: Since the Bible teaches that we enjoy salvation only through faith in Christ, and since the Bible teaches that baptism saves us and washes away our sins, we can rightfully say that baptism creates the faith that connects us to Jesus and brings into our lives all the blessings he won by his holy life, sacrificial death and glorious resurrection.
The Holy Spirit creates faith. Please tell us how you can create faith. Do you have any other special powers?
@@jacksprattt6396 if u are knowledgeable about the BIble, then you know that it does not favour a pugnacious spirit, which you appear to be.
@@jacksprattt6396 Baptism is a Sacrament; an act of Grace FROM God. It's something we receive. Some denominations reduce it to an act of obedience; something WE do. Lutherans believe that's a wrong understanding.
No. Faith comes first then comes action. the action flows from the faith.
So many heretics
Thing is, everyone thinks THEIR version is correct. Guess we'll find out eventually lol
Like you.