I don't believe WW has copied VKB. The appearance of their joystick grips is modeled after real aircraft, and the internal gimbal just happens to be a Pincer Gimbal as well. If this can be considered plagiarism, then all flight joysticks would be considered as such. Personally, I am quite happy to see more competition in the market, as it benefits consumers' rights.
@@dcs_one Besides, IIRC both companies are based in China. The chicoms don't really give a rat's ass about trademark and copyright laws... unless they own it.
Worth noting that the gimbal is identical to the piece found in the VKB Gladiator. VKB claims they developed their gimbal in house and that Winwing's usage constitutes theft.
@@dcs_one The majority of the grip too. Really similar to VKB's space combat grip, just with the top input cluster changed for a modern Russian fighter style one.
That gimbal is near identical to the VKB one. I recall seeing a photo of someone with an early model being able to easily fit the WW one into an actual gladiator. Competition is good from a consumer perspective, but this sort of thing is really shitty behavior from WW
You showed at the beginning that the nxt gladiator is twice the price but that seems odd to me because in my country its 150 so only 40 dollars more. Maybe a regional price thing idk. Ill say ive had the vkb for 4 year along with other sticks including win wing stuff and its been great and i would recommend it to anyone.
Appreciate the quick look at the stick. I like to keep up with what's available. Seems the Ursa Minor is as if the T16K and Gladiator Evo had a baby! Lots of buttons on the base (like the T16K) and the internal gimbal looks very similar to the Evo...even having the dry clutch feature (I doubt VKB is amused!). I'll give Winwing credit that it's easy to access the internals if you want to tinker with the dry clutch. It's four screws to get the base plate off my Evo to access the springs and tighten the dry clutch.
@@dcs_one I didn't say I liked it, I said I like to keep up with what's available to buy. Now having seen other videos and screenshots doing direct comparisons the Ursa Minor gimbal internals are basically a clone of VKB's Gladiator Evo. No doubt this will be a topic you cover when you do a full review.
@Honosuseri apparently I was the first reviewer to ask VKB questions after finding out. Will make sure to include it in the review if it proves to be true
I've been using the T16000M for a few years and although I enjoy it, I would eventually like to move up market a bit but this does not look to be the solution I'm looking for.
@@dcs_one The extra HATs on the Winwing are looking rather tempting but I'll probably wait until my T16000M dies and then move up to the VKB Gladiator NXT.
@@Ryecrash617 I did same - T16000 to VKB for my right stick. Today my WinWing Ursa Minor Space - the angled one is arriving and im going to test that for left throttle. I was about to order the Left hand VKB a couple months ago and saw the WinWing was a couple months away from release so i figured id just deal with my T16000 slide throttle until the WinWIng becomes available for purchase. Fingers crossed i can pull the spring out and tighten up the damper to make it want to 'stay' at the throttle angle i push it to and wont want to drift to a different throttle % easily if i apply other inputs like side strafe or twist
@@hawkzulu5671 Let me know how that goes. I've tried dual stick and although I like the maneuverability, there is something enjoyable about sliding that throttle.
Ursa vs Gladiator? Sorry if i missed it, but how does it compare to the others? I nearly bought the Thrustmaster yesterday, but the lack of buttons made me look at the Gladiator. Surely the Ursa Minor is better than the Thrustmaster Stick just by having more buttons, but how does it compare to the Gladiator (Premium)? I'd rather put more money in it and buy once, but at the other hand if the Ursa Minor is "good quality" i would love to save some money. (i think the Ursa Minor even has more or at least the same amount of Buttons/4-ways than the Gladiator NXT EVO ‘Space Combat Edition’ Premium ! ) Thanks ! -Cube
I will be doing a comparison later in the month! I think Ursa wins button wise but the Gladiator build quality wise, but that is just a guess. Will get the Gladiator to test next week
I just got mine so far I'm liking it. How did you get the haptics setup? I made a profile for the plane im using in MSFS2020 and i'm 'running' it but nothing.
Stolen design.VKB themselves posted on reddit and said it's their design used illegally. If this is your first brand collab, I would reconisider it and go with a company that isn't stealing designs.
Stole what? The stick/button layout that's based on late model Sukhoi Sticks? The gimbal which is the same design just about every company out there has used for cheaper sticks?
From the small amount of testing I have done: You can do calibration, it shows you all the inputs, you can setup the haptic feedback and also how the backlight behaves but that is only what I have seen from quick testing. Windows does however ask every time I turn on my computer if I would like to allow the software to make changes to my computer. So that’s a bit annoying but I bet that there is a way to turn that off Definitely better than Thrustmasters software
Awesome review, Ty. I'm just starting to get into DCS & this review is why i'll be chosing this over the t16000 stick more buttons, the same internal sensor system & IMO much better internal movement system w/the gimble set up whosever it actually is. Something else U can probably assist me with is I watched another quick overview of the Minor fighter stick from MYSH, ua-cam.com/video/SFdEKhHFWxA/v-deo.html , & at 1st glance he was saying possibly w/some axis adjustments & the removal of a coup[le of springs through the bottom access it could definetly be possible to turn a Minor into a pretty descently functional throttle, if that's true the value of th9s unit goes way up. I def still think the T16000 is very good HOTAS but I'd rather avoid replacing/modifying & or having to grease the railing system on the T16000 TWCS throttle unit if possible. If U could test this theory at all PLEASE do so, can't wait for more vids on this & other flight sim products. Ty very much again
@@dcs_one If it can be done & works well that is exactly the one I want. I've just recieved the Minor RT handed flight stick pending the outcome of your testing I will get the LFT space stick. It's not released til Sept 14th, Ty so much for your response.
@@dcs_one The tilted LT hand space stick also has a downloadable manual showing how to lock off the axisis. I'm very new to this so idk but maybe they've also already thought about this being done.
It does feel cheaper in the hand but it has a better mechanism for the axes and it has more buttons. I totally understand why you would stick to the t16000
@@JAnx01 it may look cheap but inside are stainless steel guide rods for the throttle and it’s not cheap components internal. Plus mechanically it actually feels very solid. And there are so many buttons. You must not have looked it up before you made this post. Works Beautifully with DCS and MSFS.
@@ParZIVal19D After my 2nd T16000 got drift issues...intermittently making micro jumps i swapped out for the VKB Gladiator for my right stick and was about to get the angled VKB for the left but paused until the WinWing Ursa became available for purchase. My Left hand angled stick arrives today. I was Totally dis-satisfied with the T16000 stick but i LOVED the throttle unit with the paddles and the index finger analog mini stick. It will be weird retraining my muscle memory to a totally different configuration
![New Force Feedback Joystick Base by MOZA Flight [First Look]](/img/n.gif)
‼️ DISCLAIMER ‼️
Here is the results of my investigation about VKBs claims about the stolen design. ua-cam.com/video/mZmRlP32VIo/v-deo.html
That gimbal format is nothing new.
@@GrizzAxxemann WINWING has said that as well. That the technology has been mass produced more than a decade ago is nothing new.
I don't believe WW has copied VKB. The appearance of their joystick grips is modeled after real aircraft, and the internal gimbal just happens to be a Pincer Gimbal as well. If this can be considered plagiarism, then all flight joysticks would be considered as such. Personally, I am quite happy to see more competition in the market, as it benefits consumers' rights.
@@HakunaMatata7_Emc2 that’s why I am investigating and seeing what both sides have to say
@@dcs_one Besides, IIRC both companies are based in China. The chicoms don't really give a rat's ass about trademark and copyright laws... unless they own it.
Worth noting that the gimbal is identical to the piece found in the VKB Gladiator. VKB claims they developed their gimbal in house and that Winwing's usage constitutes theft.
That I am not aware of, will need to check this out.
Will be comparing them very soon to see what is what.
@@dcs_one The majority of the grip too. Really similar to VKB's space combat grip, just with the top input cluster changed for a modern Russian fighter style one.
I’ve already contacted both companies and I will directly compare both to make sure and also let everyone else know.
That gimbal is near identical to the VKB one. I recall seeing a photo of someone with an early model being able to easily fit the WW one into an actual gladiator. Competition is good from a consumer perspective, but this sort of thing is really shitty behavior from WW
Yes that’s what I have heard and I will be directly comparing both later in the month
I've been looking for something to replace my Sidewinder II, which I've used for over 20 yrs. This looks like a good choice.
@@davido1953 great features for the price
You showed at the beginning that the nxt gladiator is twice the price but that seems odd to me because in my country its 150 so only 40 dollars more. Maybe a regional price thing idk. Ill say ive had the vkb for 4 year along with other sticks including win wing stuff and its been great and i would recommend it to anyone.
It very likely is regional but the European prices include taxes and stuff while the global ones for VKB and WINWING I’m pretty sure don’t include it
Looks like VKB made this one for WinWing :D
We will conpare them soon™️
Appreciate the quick look at the stick. I like to keep up with what's available. Seems the Ursa Minor is as if the T16K and Gladiator Evo had a baby!
Lots of buttons on the base (like the T16K) and the internal gimbal looks very similar to the Evo...even having the dry clutch feature (I doubt VKB is amused!). I'll give Winwing credit that it's easy to access the internals if you want to tinker with the dry clutch. It's four screws to get the base plate off my Evo to access the springs and tighten the dry clutch.
Glad you liked it. I like the combo between the T16K and Evo but VKB is not happy and I am investigating it
@@dcs_one I didn't say I liked it, I said I like to keep up with what's available to buy.
Now having seen other videos and screenshots doing direct comparisons the Ursa Minor gimbal internals are basically a clone of VKB's Gladiator Evo. No doubt this will be a topic you cover when you do a full review.
@Honosuseri apparently I was the first reviewer to ask VKB questions after finding out. Will make sure to include it in the review if it proves to be true
the winwing ursa minor is double the price compared to the vkb nxt evo premium where i am. probably scalpers.
Oh wow, it should be closer to half the price
I've been using the T16000M for a few years and although I enjoy it, I would eventually like to move up market a bit but this does not look to be the solution I'm looking for.
The T16000M is amazing flown with it for 3 years and I would continue to do so if I wouldn’t run out of buttons
@@dcs_one The extra HATs on the Winwing are looking rather tempting but I'll probably wait until my T16000M dies and then move up to the VKB Gladiator NXT.
@@Ryecrash617 I did same - T16000 to VKB for my right stick. Today my WinWing Ursa Minor Space - the angled one is arriving and im going to test that for left throttle. I was about to order the Left hand VKB a couple months ago and saw the WinWing was a couple months away from release so i figured id just deal with my T16000 slide throttle until the WinWIng becomes available for purchase. Fingers crossed i can pull the spring out and tighten up the damper to make it want to 'stay' at the throttle angle i push it to and wont want to drift to a different throttle % easily if i apply other inputs like side strafe or twist
@@hawkzulu5671 Let me know how that goes. I've tried dual stick and although I like the maneuverability, there is something enjoyable about sliding that throttle.
Looks like a modified gladiator pro
Sort of is. Will do a comparison of both in the future!
Congratulations on your first brand collaboration!
Thank you! Cheers!
Ursa vs Gladiator?
Sorry if i missed it, but how does it compare to the others? I nearly bought the Thrustmaster yesterday, but the lack of buttons made me look at the Gladiator. Surely the Ursa Minor is better than the Thrustmaster Stick just by having more buttons, but how does it compare to the Gladiator (Premium)?
I'd rather put more money in it and buy once, but at the other hand if the Ursa Minor is "good quality" i would love to save some money.
(i think the Ursa Minor even has more or at least the same amount of Buttons/4-ways than the Gladiator NXT EVO ‘Space Combat Edition’ Premium ! )
Thanks !
-Cube
I will be doing a comparison later in the month! I think Ursa wins button wise but the Gladiator build quality wise, but that is just a guess. Will get the Gladiator to test next week
@@dcs_oneso how is the test going? ;)
@@bjorn.thorvaldson still ongoing. Will have a video about them in the next 2 weeks.
@@dcs_one I can't wait! :) It will be decision-maker as I am torn apart between the UM and the Gladiator...
I just got mine so far I'm liking it. How did you get the haptics setup? I made a profile for the plane im using in MSFS2020 and i'm 'running' it but nothing.
Well I have their software open while I am playing but I had no issues and it worked out of the box in DCS. So I won't really have an answer currently
@@dcs_one Turns out they just needed to update the software and it works now.
It looks like a TOY!!!! You get what you pay for.
Exactly, but I would say it has very good features for its price
It… is a toy…
are there keybinding files?
What do you mean by that?
@dcs_one should I setup the keybinds myself or are they automatically there?
What about flaps?
It has 14 base buttons you can use for flaps, gear, airbrakes, stuff like that.
Stolen design.VKB themselves posted on reddit and said it's their design used illegally. If this is your first brand collab, I would reconisider it and go with a company that isn't stealing designs.
It is a sour note for my first brand collaboration. I have contacted both companies and will be doing a comparison to make sure
Winwing has never created anything original tbh so if that’s true it wouldn’t surprise me
Stole what? The stick/button layout that's based on late model Sukhoi Sticks? The gimbal which is the same design just about every company out there has used for cheaper sticks?
@@Dyson_Cyberdynesystems The gimbal is a 1:1 exact copy allegedly. They slot into Gladiators.
They said they took it. But they didn't say it was illegal. Unless there was another post i didnt see.
How is winwing's software? I absolutely hated VKB's software (so much I sold the stick after just a couple months).
From the small amount of testing I have done:
You can do calibration, it shows you all the inputs, you can setup the haptic feedback and also how the backlight behaves but that is only what I have seen from quick testing.
Windows does however ask every time I turn on my computer if I would like to allow the software to make changes to my computer. So that’s a bit annoying but I bet that there is a way to turn that off
Definitely better than Thrustmasters software
The only reason i got this over vbk is paypal.... i got fucked by shit Chinese companys and paypal saved my ass from losing money everytime.
Very understandable, that is a benefit.
Awesome review, Ty. I'm just starting to get into DCS & this review is why i'll be chosing this over the t16000 stick more buttons, the same internal sensor system & IMO much better internal movement system w/the gimble set up whosever it actually is. Something else U can probably assist me with is I watched another quick overview of the Minor fighter stick from MYSH, ua-cam.com/video/SFdEKhHFWxA/v-deo.html , & at 1st glance he was saying possibly w/some axis adjustments & the removal of a coup[le of springs through the bottom access it could definetly be possible to turn a Minor into a pretty descently functional throttle, if that's true the value of th9s unit goes way up. I def still think the T16000 is very good HOTAS but I'd rather avoid replacing/modifying & or having to grease the railing system on the T16000 TWCS throttle unit if possible. If U could test this theory at all PLEASE do so, can't wait for more vids on this & other flight sim products. Ty very much again
Stay tuned, I think we will try it out
But straight away I would look at the space flight version, I am pretty sure that also has an axis lock
@@dcs_one If it can be done & works well that is exactly the one I want. I've just recieved the Minor RT handed flight stick pending the outcome of your testing I will get the LFT space stick. It's not released til Sept 14th, Ty so much for your response.
@@dcs_one Excellent, sounds great. Hope to see it soon, Ty so much
@@dcs_one The tilted LT hand space stick also has a downloadable manual showing how to lock off the axisis. I'm very new to this so idk but maybe they've also already thought about this being done.
Looks soooooo cheap. Sticking to my T16000
It does feel cheaper in the hand but it has a better mechanism for the axes and it has more buttons. I totally understand why you would stick to the t16000
Enjoy lacking buttons even in Starfox and Lylat Wars. And seriously? The T16000 looks like the cheapest joystick ever made.
@@JAnx01 it may look cheap but inside are stainless steel guide rods for the throttle and it’s not cheap components internal. Plus mechanically it actually feels very solid. And there are so many buttons. You must not have looked it up before you made this post. Works Beautifully with DCS and MSFS.
@@ParZIVal19D After my 2nd T16000 got drift issues...intermittently making micro jumps i swapped out for the VKB Gladiator for my right stick and was about to get the angled VKB for the left but paused until the WinWing Ursa became available for purchase. My Left hand angled stick arrives today. I was Totally dis-satisfied with the T16000 stick but i LOVED the throttle unit with the paddles and the index finger analog mini stick. It will be weird retraining my muscle memory to a totally different configuration
@@hawkzulu5671 oh I bet. I’ve had my T16000 for about a year now with no issues. Hope it stays that way.