How to Deal With a Toxic Family
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- Опубліковано 3 лип 2024
- In today's video, we delve into the intricate topic of dealing with a toxic family and provide valuable insights on navigating this complex situation.
To find out more about HG Coaching: bit.ly/3Q318lG
Addressing a toxic family dynamic requires a nuanced approach, and we are here to guide you through various strategies for establishing healthy boundaries and consequences. This discussion aims to empower viewers with practical advice and coping mechanisms, emphasizing the importance of self-care and well-being when faced with challenging family dynamics.
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▼ Timestamps ▼
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00:00 - Preview
00:16 - Reddit Post
05:24 - "What a good son does"
07:38 - Have conversations
13:45 - Consequences
22:52 - Explore your own emotions
29:57 - The ultimatum
36:36 - Questions
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DISCLAIMER
Healthy Gamer is an online community and resource platform for gamers and their families. It does not provided medical services or professional counseling, and it is not a substitute for professional medical care. Our coaches are peer supporters, not professionally trained experts, and they cannot provide medical service. If you or a loved on are experiencing an emergency, please call your nation's emergency telephone number.
All guests of Healthy Gamer are informed of the public, non-medical nature of the content and have expressly agreed to share their story.
#healthygamergg #toxicfamily #toxicrelationships
Man oh man oh man, these conversations sound SO BLOODY EASY from Dr. K, but they are BRUTAL to have in real life. This is an incredible resource for people who need explicit guidance in such confrontational relationships.
Literally like, I feel traumatised just IMAGINING trying to talk to my family. I feel like there is a sort of paradoxical essence about this video, toxic people aren't reasonable enough for critical conversations... 😞
But he talks about that. They're NOT going to be easy. The point is to DO YOUR BEST and try to get things to work for a set period of time. If it doesn't work, you know you DID WHAT YOU COULD and that makes it a lot easier to walk away so that you can live a healthy, happy life on your own without guilt.
It's the same difference as the difference between a map and an actual terrain. Reading a map isn't the same as walking the path with your own feet, but the map gives you a picture of where the road is.
@@danigeo5673 that's a phenomenal analogy. Perhaps the best I've ever seen.
True. Whatever I say mother did wrong, she will be defensive and angry because when I was a *child* said something what she didnt like, meanwhile she was 40+. Pathetic behaviour.
Man, conspiracy obsessed dad is like a trope for our generation. My family never even knew who I was as a person because I just kept my head down til I could move out. Best decision I ever made. I am deeply fucked up from that upbringing but the freedom of not hearing from them for most of this year has proven to me that I made the right choice.
Wish I could do this. I dislocated my right knee and year and a half ago and hit it again a year ago. How did it dislocate? Literally getting out of a fucking car. My parents literally forgot to make appointments for me and couple that with covid times and it would take months for one visit. Then I would get guilt tripped in to not doing physical therapy for the knee I limp on, so they can instead spend money on more shit we dont need. I now have permanent knee cartilage damage, my wirst during this entire time has a undiagnosed injury that prevents me even from fishing. Been in recovery since I was 16, and now I'm 18, kicked out of high school for not going, for very obvious reason coupled with depression and undiagnosed adhd that my parents still dont accept. They have been going through a nasty divorce I feel the last 4 years, but it's gotten worse. They are literally only together do to the current economy. I dont know why I'm still typing, I guess I'm just venting.
@@bekay7663 nothing wrong with a vent bud. Medical neglect is so awful to experience - I went through something similar with my own family. I'm so sorry you're in that situation. I hope you hang in there and are able to surround yourself with people who genuinely want to understand you and care about what happens to you. Even if it seems far away, it /is/ possible.
so just live in the dark, thats fine. both sides must have some form of depression, in my opinion, but people are allowed to speculate and have opinions
Yeah, being financially independent is the best milestone for someone with toxic family, second best is moving out.
wow. I suppose the writing is really on the wall when after you're gone they don't reach out to you and you're having to search for why. Good for you man, not everyone has that kind of clarity over a toxic family situation. You're usually too close to know how bad things are.
This video is a masterclass on handling an incredibly delicate issue with good leadership, empathy, and boundary setting.
Agree! And can be applied in so many scenarios.
Thank you for your time, Doc! So helpful.
100%
Yes, as someone who was in a similar situation I opted to leave and support and love from a distance. My mothers bipolar and MS made it unbearable as she would daily try to frame things as others faults, constant screaming and wouldn’t let anyone have their peace. I had the conversation but wish I had this template when I was in that situation.
The sad thing about this is that the moment you leave them to their own devices they immediately know what to do and pull their shit together.
Happens more often than it should. Especially those that are actually mentally and physically capable such as OP's gaming addict brother. Stop giving him free money and food and eventually he'll have to figure out how to get his own food thus getting his own job for it. I'd even argue to do something like make excuse to change internet to a shitty one which affect his gaming, then if he complains, say he can always get a job and contribute to the bill so he can get the internet he needs for gaming. The beginning of making someone like him responsible for his own life.
Seen far too many sons and daughters that never given proper responsibilities by the parents, so they take advantage of their parents' generosity and never grow to be a true independent adult despite fully physically and mentally capable.
NHK in a nutshell
@@diversitydeliverer7094 Yessss. I watched it when i was unemployed for a couple of months, makes you put in the extra effort to get a job lol.
Why is that sad?
@@Fullyautomagicmaybe cause the son isn't going to leave them because he feels guilty, and therefore they will not change.
I think the most important lesson here is that blood is thicker than water. The blood of the sacrament is thicker than the water of the womb. The relationships that you CHOOSE are more important than the ones that you were born into. You don’t sacrifice your life for family JUST because they’re family. I would sacrifice myself for mine in a heartbeat because my family and I are incredibly close and I love them dearly, but that isn’t the case for everyone.
Some people just seem to think EVERYONE had the same family life experiences as them, like having loving parents, siblings and grandparents
Some don't seem to realize maybe one had only a parent, both died or everyone was awful people
It is very rare to see an honest evaluation like this instead of a projection from the objectively greener side of the fence.
@@joeya289 I've got a lot of life experience to draw on
Like in all other aspects of life compassion, discretion, and selflessness are needed. There’s almost always a middle way/path.
The problem is sometimes dealing with people in denial can be so draining that we don't have the energy to manage them in this emotionally healthy manner, because it takes energy and skill to be healthily communicative. I think depending on the personalities extreme narcissists etc sometimes you have to leave to save the whole situation
Yes, sometimes you do. But it is helpful to have this advice in the event that some folks' life situations may not be as clear-cut, or where there wasn't years of gaslighting that convinced people throughout their childhood that whatever they did was never enough.
Yeah, its hard to keep calm if there are unresolved issue/abuse happen for a long time. you also most likely don't have conflict resolution or communication skills too. Dysfunctional family usually caused by multiple fundamental problem over long period
Felt this.
It’s like, how do I delicately tend to the situation when I’m already emotionally exhausted from all of my other responsibilities?
Yup
Takeaways:
→ Guilt should be over things that you have control over.
→ Practice having conversations, actions, consequences, shared responsibilities and much more.
→ Try everything that you can do and accept that it is what is.
→ Sacrifice is only worth it if the other person is ready to help themselves.
→ Find the right amount of time you can handle if your too empathetic.
How to practise if the only people I hate speaking with is the family?
I recently fucked up my relationship and I felt so hopeless about my prospects. I realise after listening to OP that my life could be so, so much worse.
My parents are fit and healthy and we do not struggle for money. They've given me money to start my therapy journey.
I'm so grateful and lucky for them and my life.
OP, if you're reading, keep going on. You sound so strong mentally and this will definitely help build your character and resilience. Keep going.
I just put on a fake smile and say yes to everything while focusing on being independently financially free to get the heck out of there. Bless my younger sisters for the trauma inflicted on them too.
Edit: it was a fault of mine to base it on my own toxic family and what I would've done in his situation. However my take is still a potential solution if the poster wasn't guilt tripped (assumed) as in 6:15. Some people downright don't deserve children and should be left alone like my parents and maybe others who have suffered here. Letting go is just as painful as fixing it. I do appreciate Dr.K's points and hope the poster's life with his family is better.
which is why it stings all the much more the fact that inflation of living prices and stagnation of purchasing power had to hit western economies so badly right now
that was my only chance of getting out of this vicious circle
and now it's postponed for the foreseeable future
it's damn near enough to make me want go and cancel my subscription to the mortal plain
That's exactly what I do now
yeah me too, its better to just smile and not rebel against them because if you do they will make your life a living hell. i do sneak out though, and have independence by the little things.
Interesting that the most upvoted comment to this video is a dismissal of all of Dr. K's suggestions and aiming for abandonment instead. Not trying to judge, but it's really telling of how absolutely draining and difficult these situations truly are and that "getting out quietly" feels like the only possible option.
I'm in a similar boat and I was in the same mindset of leaving home quietly until I saw this video. Maybe I should start practicing these "meta conversations" first - at least then I might leave my family's lives a little better too.
I've already tried getting my family help, my narcissistic mother isn't changing any time soon and doesn't want to. I've tried giving her chances and had countless conversations with her and nothing, there is nothing you can do for those people.
As someone from an asian family, a less-toxic and improving household is out of the question because the toxicity begins with me not being allowed to put a single word in. So literally the first step to improvement is impossible because there is no possible way for communication or a conversation. In situations like that the only decision you can make is whether you are willing to manage your life around this toxicity, or leave.
Exactly, our culture enables this kind of toxicity and makes it as a norm. Just there's no way to go about it
This Video is also huge for students living in shared apartments. These kinds of constellations can often be disfunctional with no one taking resposibilty and no one leading etc.
Yep. And in those situations, there's less abuse and sometimes no abuse - but plenty of need for this kind of advice.
@@lsmmoore1 yes
I was getting flashbacks to group work back in my undergrad.
I ended up doing a lot of groupwork by myself instead of doing it as a group. It took so much stress, so much arguing and trying to force things that I just had no strength left in me by the end of my undergrad. Working with people who are barely motivated to do work is one thing.
Having terrible classes, limited support network and disorganized teachers made it impossible to graduate on time with your sanity intact. Out of the 40 that started, I was one of the 3 that graduated on time and I still dont know how any of us managed. I guess that we as students were forced to compensate for the many mistakes our teachers made and they were like: 'well, it is your deal that you are unable to deal with this :D'
I have gone through this, and did everything Dr K said. First time was with an ex boyfriend (8 years relationship). Second time was with my birth family, 5 years ago. Third time was with my ex husband (12 years relationship), the process started 3 years ago and it is at its end. I just moved out of our home (he doesn't want to move out, I will have to sue him to sell), and in a month I will finally move out all my things.
It is exhausting, BUT the peace of mind is unimaginable, the sense of self respect and love is great. I gave it all for the sake of the love that I felt for them and now I can move on without regreats or "what ifs".
Thanks for explaining this dynamic so well Dr K.
This feels close to home, although my relashionship only lasted 3 years. I loved deeply, I did everything I could and felt the "what ifs" a lot. So much so that during those 3 years I kept breaking up and get back together with this person and I realised that I had exhausted every "what ifs" when in the same time the other person didn't tried that hard. Some days it is still hard, but if I have one advice is that you can alow yourself to have bad days and foolish thoughts.
BUT the peace of mind is unimaginable, the sense of self respect and love is great.
The problem here is that conversations about life and consequences will work only if your family is (mentally) healthy and stable relatively. If not they are going to get distressed and rip you apart. I'm in a very similar situation, but I'm stuck with mentally infant 6 people instead of 3 and damn, it feels like I'm playing life on nightmare difficulty.
My advice is to completely avoid interacting them as a group. Choose the least broken / most functioning one in your family and concentrate your efforts on him/her.
Help them as best as you can improving their life. Try to make an ally.
And always, always have your own mental health at the highest priority. You can't help no one if you end up burned up half way.
I relate to the OP so much for this video. My parents who were so verbally and physically abusive during my childhood needed financial help when they got divorced in my 20s. I took on 2 jobs and worked 80 hours a week while giving them 80,000 over the course of my 20s. By the end I had gained 100 pounds, had no social life to speak of, deteriorating mental health that came to a head when I had a mental breakdown at work followed by 6 months of taking leave to get myself healthier. Now I have my own place and I have 1 job with better work life balance.
At some point you have to objectively look at how much you have done for them relative to what a child should be expected to do and look at whether or not they are doing anything to help themselves in their situation. If you have done a reasonable amount for them and after a couple years they are not putting in effort to fix their situation call it quits with a clean conscious.
...why did you skip the only important part of this story?
@@florkiler6242 no
@@florkiler6242 why did you? Have you finished the video?
both of you elaborate. "why" and "no" really dont give me anything to work with
Sometimes i feel like you're spying on me when i see the video titles.
Facts lol
Exactly
Yep
facts
Bro yea some titles scare me because it’s sometimes the questions I really want answered.
these conversation techniques are so helpful to learn, even if you immediate family isn't super toxic.
I can't begin to explain how much I can relate to this person, and how bad I feel for them because I've tried to have these hard conversations. Sometimes it'll all seem like it's going fine and they're going to contribute and a week, sometimes maybe a couple of days in, we're back to square one because it's comfortable to let someone else worry about everything.
My only advice is, as someone who has been there, done that, ask yourself "what would happen then If I died?" Really think about it, they'd HAVE to survive right? So understand and accept that they could face those consequences at any moment. And leave.
Blows my mind that this level of education can be free. The internet and the gargantuan scalability it enables really are wonders to behold.
i just want to say thank you. for years people have said to me "just abandon your dad, hes horrible to you and not doing anything for you", hes very ill and he has noone. and its not THEIR dad they have to know suffers. I had to hear that from someone else but me. i am at a point where i tried everything and at the moment its about to be decided if he complies with me and enables me to help him or if he expects me to do everything for him on his terms.
I can't believe how similar this person's situation was to mine. This video has helped me feel better about myself because I have realized how much I tried to do to fix things for my family, (I certainly didn't do EVERYTHING right...) but I did work hard to help them. My mother is in poor health and my father refused to help with the house, although he did work full time. My brother would only hang out with his internet friends and made no effort to move out, but he did work part time and took care of some of his own expenses. However, the house was always nasty and I was left to get groceries, clean the house, take care of mom, and take care of the pets. I was constantly exhausted and unable to do what I wanted or needed to do. I ended up moving out. Amazingly, my father began to take responsibility. He started taking better care of my mom and the house and trying to get my brother to do more. My family still tries to guilt trip me somewhat, but this video has helped me get over irrational guilt. Thank you Dr. K!
This is why the rest of the family has a happy ending in The Metamorphosis, imo. The entire story is them learning to take responsibility bc the person they had been relying on cannot hold their shit together for them anymore
Have a conversation? I wish! My family is insane and leaving has becoming everyday a little more my only viable option to not live in hell!
Me: Alright time to fix my family issues! Let's goooo.
Dr K: Step1 - Have conversations.
Me: OOPS
I've tried having this conversation but I don't have the leadership;
I have them say what the problem is, point out how it's toxic and unhealthy, but when I ask how we can change/work on it, it gets a shrug and an immediate "oh it's not that big of a problem, it's whatever"
I kinda just sit there looking at them confused af. I get it takes consistency but I don't have resources or care to take on that mountain. I feel like I have a responsibility to take care of myself first.
That's manipulation mate, I'm sorry for what you are going through. Diminishing or downplaying what you bring up is a pure passive aggressive manipulation 101.
This channel has gradually made me realize just how apathetic I actually am. I don't have the patience to be the kind of person who rises above these situations. Because as the son, as the young adult, I should not be exalted above my parents while they're currently alive. Why do I have to be the chosen one, essentially? Why can't they come to these conclusions themselves? Why am I special? Why are they allowed to live in sin, when I can't just simply exist? Even if this situation gets resolved, I'm gonna forever know that these people are now better than me, and it's never gonna get attributed to my works because I reset things back to the standard. I did as expected, so therefore there's nothing in it for me to help these people
Damn, his story hit home for me man. I feel his pain. Feeling like your the only one who wants to do better is hard. Being raised in a shitty enviornment is tough when you want to keep moving forward.
Having to abandon my bio mom and separate severely form the rest of my family - I agree that this works! But it comes at a cost I wish I didn’t have to pay. How much I’ve cried because I don’t have a mom for the day of my wedding, that my family lives too far away for family events or to be there for when I have kids, or even because I don’t have someone to help me grow up. It’s painful. After 3 years of working on our relationships and trying so hard - it was proven that no one was willing to make large changes even after I moved out. His advise is so solid; unfortunately most people don’t make it. Wish we could have tho, but even therapy couldn’t work in our case. I’ll pray for this family and hope they make it through.
Part of me wishes I tried some of Dr. K's advice from this video with my mom. But I remembered that I took her to therapy with me last year and later found out she was so mad during those sessions that she wanted to slap my therapist. It makes me so sad.
My whole life was like this until I realized there was no end to them wanting me to continue to sacrifices myself. I love them but I have slowly carved out my new life and they are still mad to see me happy and better. So it is so hard to put those boundaries but necessary if you want to continue to have a chance at life.
I grew up in a toxic household and watching this is really insightful. I realize that this is what I did to eventually get out of the situation. To be fair, I was not as measured as Dr. K, but I genuinely tried everything I could to help them and doing so helped me move on without guilt. I still feel sad, but I don’t feel guilty. I still stay in touch and I still try to provide guidance and they still ignore it. All I can do is all I can do
I think his dad building a garden is literally a good idea, conspiracy theories non-withstanding.
it sounds like he's blowing too much money on it from the way OP phrased it, but I agree. I'm in favor of growing produce at home and it sounds like his dad's habit could easily be made into something constructive.
@@xXx_Regulus_xXx And his brother could do something to make that garden actually work.
I understand where OP is coming from too though. Gardening requires a pretty significant monetary investment and can be labour intensive in a small land setting. It might not sound a lot but starting a garden while relying on food stamps and social security is unrealistic. Plus, being self-reliant on your own garden is extremely difficult and full of risks, something very romanticized in recent trends.
@@Hailfire131 could be a situation of someone sinking money into a hobby and then not doing the work needed for it to actualize into anything.
@@omegaturtle8626 True, families who live from their own food have various animals and acres of different veggie and fruit cultures.
It's also often more than a 8 hour work day for pretty much every adult in the family.
This is so incredibly difficult to listen to because I have zero faith that these situations can be resolved. Don’t set yourself on fire to keep others warm.
Its really empathatic for the reddit guy at the beginning. He/she is literally living hell on earth. The thing I would do is to just leave after communicating my goals to my toxic family and help financially depending on my financial budget.
To anyone in a bad living situation due to bad people. Get out. Yes the situation can sometimes change for the better, but the cost is barely worth it. If you have a means of supporting yourself, just leave. You can keep in touch, but these people change if THEY put in the work. Otherwise these kinds of things are not your problem. And if you don't have a means to move out, secure one before the environment starts taking a long term toll on your mental health. Build an alternative support system with good people. The nuclear family was made to be that for us, but we aren't all so lucky.
literally just woke up from a nightmare about my parents... guess I should take the hint 🥴
update. my dad called me while watching which I haven't had a call from him in like a year. Went well. Trust the process maybe lol
@@konigjager4245 nice
Hooo boy, that's a mood. I have frequently recurring dreams of my dad gaslighting me, my mom setting herself (and sometimes others) up for failure in infomercial-style fashion (this, unfortunately, happens *a lot* in real-life), and my sisters berating me for "being negative"/pointing out elephants in the room/not taking on more responsibilities that weren't mine in the first place.
@@dionamus I hear you on siblings pilling on for pointing out elephants in the room, but in my case its almost the opposite reasoning. I'll talk about the issues back at home and instead of saying that they don't want to talk about it, they try to guilt me for bringing it up in the first place. Complete and total denial. I said that they should just plainly state that they don't want to talk about it anymore and that would be fine by me but that makes them even angrier. Can't win for losing apparently.
Yo same wtf
If you deal with overwhelming self-inflicted toxicity, this is good advice dealing with that, too. It's so similar, basically dealing with a narcissistic demon in the back of my mind that gives me the responsibility of the burden of all its BS while never giving me any of the power or energy to actually address the problems it brings up. Breaking down its toxicity and trying to reflect on how to take responsibility for the things I actually can change is a good way to overcome the negative self-talk. Resorting to an ultimatum if the negativity won't capitulate to reason probably isn't an option, but the rest helps a lot.
Wow this is very cool use of the video
I really relate to that reddit post deeply. My family need my financial support and if i don't support them i know i'll be in a great guilt. I still live with my family. (25F) My both parents have serious health issues and my siblings are just living in a denial. Everytime i try to talk about the elephant in the room, they quickly get defensive. We can't even have decent conversations together. So, I am basically trapped and my family is the only reason of my fucked up mental health.
@@Dimitris_Half Both my siblings ( 30 and 32 ) still dont have a job and one of them has addiction problem. I offered them therapy couple of times and said i will cover the expenses but they refused it immediately. If i leave, i know my siblings won't do anything about the situation, and i don't want my mother to live her last years in misery. If it wasn't for my mother, i would leave this household sooner.
@@Dimitris_Half You clearly aren't listening to the person you're trying to help.
@@Dimitris_Half Jesus Christ, I just finished watching the video and you are EXACTLY what Dr.K says not to do.
@@chiderakalaji7206 no, at the end of the day you sometimes you gotta be ok with not helping anymore if they’re not willing to help themselves.
@@Dimitris_Half yep, at the end of the day you can’t force people to change, and responsibility is a two-way street.
Yup some people only get better if they hit rock bottom first. And for those of us that have been to rock bottom (against our own will, ie circumstances largely out of our own control) the pain of that is so horrible that you don't want anyone else to feel that or deal with that. But Dr K is right, their behavior be being enables. And what makes this worse is that they don't care enough about his struggles to see that its not okay and they they could do more.
In order to help the family this son has to go out of his way to and put effort into learning conflict resolution tactics and getting better at his own mental health in order to be strong enough and good enough to help them.
I've been in a similar situation with 2 other people in my life. I found myself learning more about psychology and personality disorders so I could be more understands/accepting/helpful. They slipped up all the time and had bad behavior, and instead of punishing them I'd talk them through it and set a boundary if I needed too. But then they wouldn't be able to respect a boundary. Or the few times I'd slip up and have bad behavior (this is human I am allowed to make mistakes just like them) they would punish me for it. So I found myself having to be the better person every time and not once would I be shown the same respect. I'd ask them to get therapy (1 could afford it easily) or at least read some cognitive behavioral therapy books to help themselves and take some of that load off me, but they couldn't even do that.
So at some point I lay everything out and realize I'm not getting anything out of the friendship/relationship and I don't feel respected for my effort and the simple requests I make go unattempted. So then I realize they aren't getting any better, so I'm not helping and in large part because they aren't putting in the work or are unwilling. Haven't a clue how either of these people are going and don't want to know because it will break my heart as they probably are still suffering and will have to hit some serious rock bottom and be forced to do something and that is gonna suck for them.
But now I have a lot more free time because I don't' have to support them emotionally (slightly financially for 1 of them). And I've been able to be there for friends who needed my help and actually make a positive impact on someone's life and now my relationships with my friends have gotten better because they are healthy and I've gained all these skills to be better and helping them. So all around a win and I hope my 2 enabled people get better and I hope they don't reenter my life, damage is done and I'm over it.
My family is "kind" but is just so negative about everything that My mind adapted to it thinking in the worst possible scenarios and with low expectations about good things. I consider myself a positive person now that i'm by myself but that shadow of negative thoughts is always in the back of my mind.
Can you further elaborate how they are negative
@@archivez101 Let's see, my mother is one of those women who leaves men because she does not trust them before they deceive her or leave her, that's why neither my brother nor I have a father, she also overprotected me and told me every possible scenario that could turn out in a bada way, I know that many mothers care, but theirs scratched the fantasy. My older brother on the other hand is one of those nihilists who believes that life is based only on eating, fornicating and sleeping, according to him everyone lies and the only truth is the one in his head, even if someone shows him evidence of the Contrary (he says that the Nazis reached the moon first, for example), he is also one of those atheists for pride, who does not want to feel tied for anything so that the idea of a superior being is beyond his beliefs. My aunt and my grandmother blame men for everything (I am male, by the way) my aunt is very melodramatic and tends to make very bad decisions with a hot head because at the minimum sign that something will go wrong The world is over, my grandmother believes that all men (my brother, cousin and I included) are potential rapists and every bad thing that happens in the house is directly or indirectly related to us (if someone left dirty The toilet had to be one of us yes or yes). My cousin is the least negative but his mother (my aunt) psychologically abused both him that not even a binary decision can make without feeling something Will go wrong.
33:00 Also, parents sacrificing for their children, that makes a lot of sense.
Children sacrificing for their parents, requires a lot of context to make sense.
This is such sound advice. I kept feeling guilty, always being stuck in the middle of arguments - and always felt like every day was a ticking time bomb and walked on eggshells. I realized I was powerless about most of this, always being forced to pick sides so I decided to put away the "guilt" I felt. I love my family, and they are mostly supportive, but the constant anxiety about an argument blowing up was just too much stress. I moved out 9 months ago, have my own place and live on my own, have a supporting and amazing girlfriend. It's the best decision I've ever made in my life. There's certain limitations and work arounds I have to do now for sure as I'm doing a lot on my own, but you cannot put a price on inner peace and peace of mind.
I don't relate to the Op's situation at all, but I still find value from this since Doc here is explaining how to be a good leader. Which is dissapointingly lacking in my University batch mates, especially in group projects, so I'll take it onto myself to try and be that guy. No leader is loved by everyone and I'm fine with that; no one can please everyone but I'll swear to myself that I'll my damn hardest anyway.
I can relate a little bit to OP
I'm 26 M and live with my parents
I feel like moving out would leave them so much worse off
they're retired, well my dad was, until his student loan payments started to eat up more and more money, so he had to go work at amazon, and we're struggling more than we should.
I work as a travelling piano and violin teacher, and I make decent money, but I almost feel obligated to help pay for more things than I should. They're behind on just about every bill, and I recently paid both the "immediately due" phone bill, and the upcoming bill.
This means that every time I start to get ahead, I end up spending more and more to help keep them afloat
all with love, but I recognize that that hinders my ability to pay off my credit card, and save up to move out, and save up for a grand piano.
so I only kinda relate
they're doing what they can but they're struggling, we all are, and I wish we weren't
I just left at 27. I don’t talk to anyone but my mother. I have permanent scars missing money missing clothes missing jewelry basically everything due to my sick twisted brother who also poisoned me 5 days straight with ambien and Xanax in my coffee
It takes time but you will trust again and be stronger for it. Don't give up get any kind of help you can, there are good people out there. High self care
wtf he poisoned you with ambien and xanax jfc man that is twisted.
🧍🏽♀️um.. omg? I'm glad you're out, then. I don't think it's worth sticking around a family member that's willing to do that to you. I'm hoping you meet better people and receive help you need.
This is remarkably well-timed. I'm 28, diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome, living at home with my mother and struggling to find work because my experience is that employers are judgemental, whether it's illegal or not. My mother is like the dad in this video. She's given money to suspected scams, follows all the same conspiracy theory stuff alluded to in this post, and has been emotionally abusive to myself and my girlfiend (who lives in another country). For example, she told me that "I'll never be able to move over to my girlfriend's country and make life there because they want people with marketable skills, but I don't have any." She told me that "my girlfriend is lying to me, I'm getting catfished, and that I'm going to live with her for a month or two, figure that out and then be stranded because I can't come home crying to mother for help any more." Whenever I tried to call her out on her behavior, she would say "I'm not letting men walk all over me in my life ever again. You're not letting me be who I want to be, that's abuse and I won't stand for it. I hoped you wouldn't be like all the other men in my life." I was made to feel like an abuser for standing up for myself when she said things that were hurtful to me. Ever since the pandemic, I've been laid off from my old job and stuck in the house with this person who has been a big drain on my physical, emotional and mental health.
Some very bad stuff happened, immediately after I applied for a work permit over in my girlfriend's country. It was bad enough that the legal implications of it (a decision I had no part in making) could cause my application to be rejected and rob me of my chance to remove myself from this situation. My autism support service managed to get me out of that situation, but only just barely, and at the cost of an irreperable rift in the family dynamic from that point forth.
I now have a 6-month wait to find out if my work permit in my girlfriend's country of residence will accept my application. I have much to learn from this video and hope to put at least some of it into practice. Maybe then I can live a better life during that wait period.
It's very common for ASD folk to be abused by family members unfortunately. She may even be undiagnosed ASD or bpd herself since it runs in families and she might just think she's being logical....there is help out there it's just under the table
Sorry about your story. My girlfriend (who as it happens I met online and has ASD) has a mother who has similar issues with men and is verbally abusive when she drinks, so I understand the feeling. I hope the work visa process goes well. In my experience you may get some (possibly grudging) respect when you can prove to your mother that the person you've been seeing is a real woman who is actually interested in you.
However, it's not necessary if you plan on cutting contact with her, that's just a tip if you want to try winning her over.
@@hspinnovators5516 ASD folks are mostly lazy. They're not abused by family, they're being shown tough love because the world is not rainbows and fairies.
@@gijane2cantwaittoseeyou203 are you diagnosed ASD? They have a completely different nervous system than you. Sounds like projection. Laziness doesn't exist in most humans, but trauma, Neuro issues, malnutrition, genetic MTHFR etc does etc
@@gijane2cantwaittoseeyou203
A lazy rationalization for abusive behaviour. How ironic.
Thank you for giving actual tips and things to help to make the situation better. Not everyone can or even want to just abandon the family. It’s really sad that the first response people always give to these types of situations is to move out and go no contact. A lot of us want to work things out and fix our family dynamic
yeah I mean for Dr. K that's kind of the point for him, trying to make it work. If no one could ever make it work, family therapy counseling would not be a thing because it simply wouldn't work. Best of luck to the OP no matter what happens.
Thank you so much for helping me and other people who have experienced childhood trauma to become normal people! You understand me more than both of my parents in almost 22 years of my life ❤️
It sounds easy, but this can only work with people who want to cooperate. Otherwise nothing changes, until you're completely drained and decide to give up and continue your life.
Precisely. There is an undeniable contrast between those.
This was an incredible video on such a profound topic. The step by step process of problem solving was phenomenal. Some of these pieces fit into the problem solving process of other issues and I think having that knowledge is incredibly helpful. Thank you and good luck to the individuals who wrote into the program. I'm rooting for you.
Thank you Dr. K for this video. The hostile environment is especially prevalent in Asian families that use guilt to manipulate children into filial piety. This video really helps the child move forward and not be trapped in guilt and emotional manipulation. Thank you
This was absolutely brilliant, thank you Dr. K ! This is coming from someone going through an analogous situation as the OP, tried the "tyranny approach" (unvolontarily, but still) and miserably failed. I now don't talk anymore with my father, sister and brother in law. I'm only still in good terms with my mom, because I applied gradually exactly everything that was explained here by Dr. K, and to which I'll refer as the "democratic approach".
At first, my mom (also partially disabled) was also reluctant to participate, with excuses linked to her physical status. The "tyranny approach" only led to a dead end of "you just want to control me" bullshit (which infuratied me - but I had to get over it). I gradually tried a more "democratic approach" and accepted the risk of trusting her to be accoutable for small things which she agreed upon doing. For example, for her finance, I bought her a smartphone, installed the bank app and taught her how to check her account, so she could better see her expenses. She thought at first she could never use such a device. She now can't live without it (her words). This was step 1 and she gained consciousness of the consequences of her impulses and the need the manage her finances. Regarding our history, I refused to take responsibility to give her guidance for her finances. This led to an agreement for her to work now with a social worker that helps her and takes cares of most of her bills, while still giving her the freedom over her disposable income. So far, this is working great.
For the rest of my family, I'm still in a dead end now. The hardest for me still at the moment is get into or around the idea that they were/are manipulative. I agree 100% with all dr. K. said. And still, accepting that they could voluntarily abuse of my willingness to help baffles me. From strangers, OK. From them, it hurts alot. Honestly brings me tears as I'm typing. But in the end, as dr. K pointed out : the help provided only makes senses if it helps. Not if it digs the hole deeper and deeper. So I took the decision to not support them financially anymore (well, I did it gradually - making my boundary vocal louder and louder - to a point where now, I consider that it's clear enough, and that if they screwed again, it's 100% on them). I'm planning to reopen dialog, but I'm still not sure about it, as the trust was broken. I'm not sure I could ever trust any of them anymore. And if not, why bother ?
Could I have heard (and listened) to dr. K's advices years ago, maybe I would not be in the deadend I (feel I) am now. Anyway, if anyone in this sort of situation read this, I wish you courage and success !
Looking forward to listening to this in full. My dad has exhibited some toxic behaviors throughout my life, and although he's gotten better over the years, he still has bouts of verbal and emotional abuse. However, he's a product of his upbringing, where he was lowest on the pecking order for 3 other siblings, who still treat him like shit to this day.
my god... i'm overwhelmed just listening to you talk about this and thinking about the dynamics in my family...
This has been an incredibly validating watch.
Being the youngest child in my family and the last one to leave my incredibly toxicly married parents alone with our farm was very hard. I felt guilty for ages and sacrificed a lot to help them as best I could. But they are just incapable of commutation or constructive problem solving.
So after drifting into unhappiness for 5 years I put my foot down when there was yet another emergency and told them I will only come and help if they agree to get professional help of any sort.
And they just ignored the message. They didn't reach out in any way relating to it. As soon as I stopped being useful I wasnt worth the effort.
So I just stopped helping. Stopped coming home at all. And my life has improved massively.
Now that I found a new stable position I will look if I can reconnect in a way that is agreeable to both sides. But now it's on my terms.
This upload really struck home for me. At the same time extremely hard to hold what he says in practice. As a individual who been disabled with sickle cell anemia all my life and strongly reliant on my family and at the whim of their dysfunctional behavior. I'm in a way tried parts of these practices at different times but never all together. I'm been more of the younger brother of this scenario with my older brother taking more of the path of self independence being more able bodied. I'm not afraid to say I'm far from health myself yet get similar burdens passed upon me as soon as I get anything for my/family betterment. Not having my boundaries respected or being guilted to give more of myself than my own comfort (without feeling a sense of understanding in return from them). It the escalation that gives me the hardest and biggest hurdle. Along with feeling a bit trapped myself.
Having now the older brother back in the house and asking the same as my mother. It been a test of patience to continue to carry these responsibilities, trying to improve myself. I know the situation and I need deeper help. Just hard reaching out or willing to accept it.
Holy shit I feel like I wrote this post. Almost everything that was spoken about applied to my current situation. Thank you for sharing and I hope that the situation improves some.
Such a sad situation to see this. Have dealt with similar but not quite as bad circumstances. Glad to see a video like this posted as I'm sure this is more common than most realize.
The hardest Dr. K video ever. Really needed, hits at the core, but very difficult
This is the most heartbreaking lesson… thanks for sharing. 🍀🙏🏽
Needed this timely conversation. Thank you!
I was in a similar situation. Definitely not as severe but i was paying my parents rent for a leaky room and i just felt really stuck in a house of people who didnt want to put any work into life and emotionally manipulating me into doing things i didnt want to do. The only thing that worked was moving out of state to rent a cheap place with my cousin. It was my saving grace and forced ME to grow up like a real independent adult. It was the best time of my life. I eventually moved back to the state and got married. Life is good
My mother tends to cry and run away if I bring up stuff about our relationship, but it might very well be that I am not cautious enough about being judgmental. Same as myself, she has a lot of insecurities that are triggered even if you talk about something remotely related. The toughest thing about it is that I want to talk about parenting with her because I have a 20 year younger sister and I see some things repeat themselves that had a negative impact on me. I'll try the question approach next time.
damn i just started watching, but this is nearly exact situation as mine, except my mother has brain damage to boot. i feel like i'm trapped and have no one to help me 💀
I'm in a very similar situation and as of last week I am suspecting my grandmother has some type of brain damage like alzheimers. My only saving grace is I'm making very good money but not so much I can support three people and build my own life up at the same time.
@@phoenixjones7191 damn that's shit. i hope something turns in your favour and you manage to find a solution 🥺
@@Dimitris_Half lmao its like you didn't watch the video and went straight to the comments. fyi Dr K calls out responders like you xd
@@freddy4603 i am living in deep hope it was some sarcasm cause i felt a sharp pang when i read their comment XD
@@Aiyume7 I guess they truly only thought for a second 😂
And also sometimes people don't change until rock bottom hits especially with health etc.
Life is so hard for some ppl, fk i wish him the best and hope dk helped him in someway
This is the one! Thank you so much!!!
Oh my god I was so excited to hear Dr K answers to some of these hard topics. It's absolutely mind blowing how much sense you can be taught even when your mind is giving you such a hard time when the exterior is giving you a hard time. we all need a DrK Brain sometimes.
"Forcing the conversation"... such an important thought, and you are right, I do have to force the conversation
Kind of just writing how I never had that thought before and sort of stopped trying to have the convos since they are so avoidant and it makes the conversation so difficult
oh my god OP, so so relatable. thanks for the vid. has given me much to think about
Basically Kafka - Metamorphosis
38:10 THIS IS GOLD! THANK YOU!
My god, just reading it makes me feel so fucking horrible for OP. I can only wish him the best of luck.
I’m a big proponent of cutting out toxic family. You are merely socialized to be obligated to these people, there isn’t actually any reason you NEED to deal with them at all, given you are able to support yourself. If there are people in your life that are constant sources of mental distress and toxicity who bring nothing of emotional value to a relationship it is a logical step to remove them from your life.
Always remember you can choose those who have a part in your life! You are bound by nothing!
I can’t believe that after all of my life of not being with my extended family and having a crappy upbringing with my narcissistic dad and being homeless with him, and not growing up with my brother they raised, I only lived with them for 3 months and I couldn’t take it anymore. It got really psychologically chaotic. I thought I was a gift to them. Their conditional love really traumatized me and I can’t stop spiraling over it. It’s unbelievable how I felt so special at first but now, I don’t feel valued, loved, or supported. I was expecting to have a new life there with my brother in their multimillion dollar home, but I guess that’s not going to happen… it’s such a let down to me…
In all honesty though, moving out is the ultimate solution, these ppl need to take some responsibility for themselves.
I'm currently dealing with a similarly complicated situation with my family and this video is v helpful
It’s interesting to me that you start out saying do everything for your family inside a framework and then eventually come to the conclusion that moving out is a likely possibility, when that should’ve been the first recommendation. As a successful ENT surgeon with an alcoholic father, narcissistic mother with borderline tendencies, and bipolar brother who still lives at home, moving out and distancing myself from the drama/toxicity was the best thing I have ever done for myself.
This doesn't work with people who can't even understand the things this person is concerned about, talking to them very likely won't do anything and given the context he gave us it's not even worth the time trying to.
He should be taking the time and patience to be able to be independent and get yourself distance and don't keep and contact letting them rot in their toxicity which is holding him back so much no matter if he loves them, that way he'll never have to deal with them probably ever again, way better solution.
Hard to do in his situation because it's his family, emotions and all but some times you have to do the hardest thing.
This was really eyes opening, my whole life situation looks so much like his. Since forever I have ti be the therapist, I constantly clean the house, I'm just trying to get out of the burnout and depression but my whole family it's disfunction and I can fix them. I will try, but I have to survive first...
Great conclusion to your advice! I would probably just skip the first two thirds of the initial advice because, realistic reactions from the people as described in the message -in my opinion - would be: 1. They would NEVER agree to any such conversation 2. They probably would not find much wrong with the house (some people don't mind living in a pigsty - or at least they will accept the pigsty over ever doing anything about it themselves) and will never agree to doing anything about it 3. They would not feel guilty to be a financial burden... They would more likely just guilt-trip him somehow to justify that he needs to continue to pay for everything 4. There may be some subconscious internal guilt on their end, but it would only ever come out as guilt-tripping or even aggression toward the employed son 5. They will not offer any solutions if asked (they won't participate in such conversations anyway) 6. The suggested stream of conversations and events only works with people who already have a level of personal desire for improvement and feel some personal reaponsibity and this does not seem to be the case here.... 7. I don't think him asking himself what his duty is / what is in his power, is the best approach. It is in his power to sink all off his income into his family and completely neglect himself. But this is not healthy. A better question in my view is: what can I do that is most fair to EVERYONE - including me? What is the solution that does most right by everyone - me included. And to keep in mind that he cannot help his family if he gets ruined in the process. So prioritizing his well-being (physical, emotional, financial) through whatever means he deems best, is ultimately also in the best interest of his family 8. Yes, I agree with your point that he in a way trained them to take advantage of him, by giving into whatever they asked of him. Denying them would be hard, but this way he is enabling their behaviour. 9. Yes, sacrificing his life is only helpful if it actually helps them. You cannot fix other people if they don't want it. 10. While I realize the intention of the "conversations" advice is good, I think it is naive to think it could work in the situation as described in the initial message. The employed son limiting his financial contributions to a bare minimum is the only realistic approach in my view, to force them into taking some responsibility... But may land him in an even bigger amount of abuse (verbal, emotional or even physical)... That is why leaving is sometimes the only option.
This is a very idealized version of how this would go. This wouldn't work in 99% of circumstances, which is why people tell guys like OP to leave and save themselves. Its not worth the time, energy, or effort to try and get people to change when they don't want to change. The only person we can change is ourselves.
Wow this is useful as heck, for many contexts
Bro, is my dad cheating on my mom? He literally described my dad in a paragraph.
You are the mentor we need 🙏🏽
Only by watching this video and everything it brings on me about my own family gives me extreme anxiety!
Putting frustrations with internet "self improvement" labels aside, this is honestly one of the best videos on negotiating conflict in a healthy ways that I've ever seen.
I was in a similar situation, and I had a mental breakdown that resulted in hospitalization after my mom died. Then I left to live with other family in a different part of the state.
Dr K, this advice you are giving is Soooo transferable to me in a business perspective. I'm about to go back, take notes, and make this work for my next sales meeting 😅
I just want to vent for a moment.
I feel the core of our family issues comes from my parents being neglectful. My thoughts while watching this video are that I should get my family together and that I should do all these things, Dr.K says. But when I start planning steps to do so I realized It is just overwhelming.
I just started to take a step toward adulthood as a student. I wonder as an adult now if it is my responsibility.
I live on my own for the most part and I hate coming home during vacation to a messy house and the toxic dynamic between family members. I like them all individually though.
I am considering never coming home again and just not making it my problem.
My situation is a little different, as I was stuck in a toxic manipulative relationship with my mom since I can ever remember and I am 22 right now. As I grow older I realize that fortunately we are pretty rich. She has multiple traumas and addictions which I've always seen and been traumatized by visions of her dying one day. All she did was throw more money at me and it's still the case. I tried telling her multiple times about my problems and wanting to discuss her, it worked maybe one time, otherwise she had been getting defensive and threw everything at my face - I was ungrateful and that my mental health problems are just imagined, because when she was young there apparently was no depression or traumas out there. While that's true, what she never realized is that current society, information spread and economy is what made us end up like that. And partly she traumatized me by her own actions like shouting for not wanting to eat and so on. That was a lot.
I am currently trying to find a good job as my whole yough seems now to have been preparing to get a well paying job as a programmer and leave. I am already at the last part of the video - multiple talks over the course of 4 years haven't changed a thing. I am starting to get guilt free and the extreme manipulative behaviour of, in fact, my whole family is starting to give less and less impact on me. It's still hard, but once I am financially independent I will talk to them once more. Because then I won't care at all about their temper tantrums and bribing.
Good luck everybody. You can do it. AOE healing is the best thing in those shitty times.
I get anxiety from listening to the story. I can’t help it but think he is an enabler and needs to get out! And thinj more of his own needs. This will finally teach his brother consequences!
Sorry, lattitude doesn't work, ultimatums do. If you give them a spectrum, they will target the lower end, whenever they feel like it. If you give them absolutely no leeway in doing things one particular way, they will still slack off, but what you told them you are not willing to compromise on, they will do to a certain level that is always within the range you would have agreed to compromise on.
This is excellent!
very very good approach to conflict resolution
You can only help so much with people who don't want to help themselves. They're 21 and in their 60s with full free will, not five.
I couldn't pull this off. I had to move out. Moving out is a literal loss of power by the way, because you spend about 30% of your money on rent and utilities.
This guy was paying rent at home though
Dr K has been saving so many people who don't have any support be it familial or friends, this channel is proof that no matter how dark it gets there's light that arrives when you need it the most. GG
I had an experience like this too, but I essentially had a year to a few months to see change and keep things afloat. I was fed up with my relationship that was going on for 9yrs and her dad who was really old kept begging me for money, which became the worse it's ever been. When we were about to become homeless again cuz we didn't have enough to stay, and I knew we wouldn't have enough money for a house, that was when I decided to leave them to live at a homeless shelter. I told them that's what we needed to do but her dad kept imposing that we shouldn't. I told her months ago that I've been able to make myself happy more than her making me happy but she ignored it and kept not wanting to change, so I believe with the decision I made, they did that to themselves. I really didn't have the time implement these tactics but I possibly could've when I was living with my parents when problems really began in 2017 or 2018
I left many years ago and it is the only way my relationship with family works. Talking over the phone or staying with them for a day twice a year. Do I feel guilty? Yes sometimes, but they won’t change, they don’t listen and stay in their toxic patterns. We all have our own issues but I can’t deal with theirs anymore, I need to focus on my own life and own needs
Why does this dude make videos always at the right time
Holly heaven, the situation described is a pure horror. I wonder how that family is doing now...
Thank you , Doctor, for helping people.