After watching hundreds of videos of how to shoot in manual mode, using flash , LG, PS and composition. At the same time I took every chance I had to photograph family ,friends, concerts,etc. Once I felt confident using my camera I contacted some photographers in my area offering my services as a SS. Long story short, one of them answered and he is being my mentor for 2 yrs. By 2023 I’m shooting 10 weddings for him as a main photographer, not only that but he is referring me a lot and I booked 6 weddings on my own thanks to him. My advice, be committed, reliable and dependable. You might be rejected but there’s always somebody in need of your help. Thanks John for this kind of videos.
As someone who has been really inspired by your videos, I think this is one of the most informative narratives for those who aren't extremely confident in jumping into wedding scenarios. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
I wish you had full wedding day like us in Portugal have...being awake at 7/8 am and working 'till 2/3 am...I always have questions about how people get their creative juices going for so many hours
I started second shooting last year and now that I've worked with quite a few different people, I always like to make sure what they need out of me. They all have a different style and need different things out of a second. I'm always down to help however they need but definitely ask because it can vary alot
As a an experienced wedding photographer by myself for over 10 years, i honestly think that styled shoots are a bad habit and, in my humble opinion, you are simply misleading customers about your actual skills. As you said, you can easily fake "high end" pictures because 1.) you can choose the perfect location, 2.) you can choose the perfect lighting situation, 3.) you can choose the perfect weather, 4.) you're having models instead of (mostly) unexperienced and excited wedding couples on their wedding day, 5.) you don't have time pressure and 6.) those models and location are set up perfectly in every detail. Surely those photos look great in your portfolio, but they were actually not taken under realistic conditions. And sucessfully handling those difficultys are showing the difference between an ACTUAL experienced wedding photographer and someone who probably fails under though conditions, because he just pretends to be experienced, by showing fake styled shoots. I've now heard several times that customers of other photographers (also in my region) where not satisfied because their actual work wasn't nearly as good as their pictures they're showing on the websites, that were taken at styled shoots and/or workshops. I hope you don't take this personally, i love your work, but this time i disagree 🙂
I have heard this point of view from many "experienced" photographers and I think there is zero truth to it. Let me break down the holes in this: (1) perfect location is something you strive for in every shoot. Yeah sometimes you have to shoot in a hotel bathroom, but turns out you can do a styled shoot that includes this location. In fact, styled shoots are a time to work on challenges (2) perfect lighting is a hope for every photo session as well, and usually you still are reliant on weather--this point doesn't make sense and again you can just do a styled shoot with whatever lighting and work on adapting (3) choosing the perfect weather when you have to pay or line up people to shoot is not any better than a paying client, the weather doesn't change because you styled something (4) models come in all variations, thinking that a model is going to help you is a HUGE mistake; it's up to the photographer to make the shoot work. Honestly models for styled shoots are not great because they lack the emotional element and have no story telling background, it's actually just as hard to shoot models as anyone else (6) models and locations are NEVER setup perfectly, you'd need many thousands of dollars to do that, you know the same amount as someone spends on an actual wedding, and if you paid $10k+ for a styled shoot, well then that's some serious budget and still doesn't guarantee that ice doesn't melt, cakes don't sag, napkins don't have wrinkles, clients don't have bad makeup. Honestly the advice in this video and comments section are a bit disappointing to me, it doesn't help new photographers succeed, outside of making a website on squarespace I guess. If clients are not happy with their photos then that is their own cheap fault for not hiring a higher end photographer or not vetting clients properly. I get it, I'm cheap, too. But disappointment typically arises when the client does not feel the emotional enormity of the portraits meets their own wedding experience, and that is a skill learned from doing weddings, forcing styled shoot models to do more than pose, learning how to pose emotion, and the styled shoot is great for that along with actually working and not second shooting. I like second shooting fine for friends and fun, but IDK if it gets me any experience or value. It's just part of doing business with colleagues, and I wish I'd had that understanding from the start.
No offense taken here. I agree with you 50% as well. Basically in this context I'm mainly talking about using styled shoots as a way to build a portfolio as a second not for couples but for other photographers. While I know that in a styled shoot everything is probably ideal at least you can show other photogs that you can take decent photos. And then from there you can learn more while seconding because at the end of the day we all know real experience and shooting a wedding is the only way to REALLY learn. Styled shoots are only a small portion of that and you DEFF should not base your whole portfolio or your skill off of it. Thanks for sharing.
Why would anyone want to have an inexperienced photographer as a second shooter while they are using styled shoots? If they want to learn they should go and assist. Don’t worry about portfolio just focus on learning.
I had a friend who is friend with a wedding photographer who criticized me with my gear that i was using.. which is the fujifilm xt3 and xt30.. he told me that my camera sucked and should switch to canon.. but honestly dont want to because this is the camera that i got used to using and invested on.. thats the reason why i love your channel so much cause your so committed on your fuji camera..😊
In the social media-driven world, it appears that one in three secondary photographers are ignorant of the unwritten rules that govern photography, which are similar to the rules that regulate sports. Today's secondary shooters are unable to preserve the confidentiality of their assignments due to their continual use of social media. This results in customers being taken by the second shooter, which occurs all too often nowadays.
Clients being taken by the second? I highly don't agree with that at all and it's the reason why it's hard to be a second now a days. I'm free and open with all of my seconds and have never felt like they take clients. There's enough work to go around. Esepcially in the wedding industry.
Thank you so much for your amazing videos, they are always so helpful and informative! I just created my photography website and would love to be a second shooter for a local photographer. I already have a portfolio put together but would like to learn more from professional photographers so I can gain more knowledge and help them! Do you think its okay to reach out to local photographers to see if they will consider me if they ever need assistance at a wedding or any photo shoot? I don't want to annoy anyone but am eager to learn more! Thank you again!
Great video Magenta Man! All NYC event photographers, I will be more then happy to hold lights, your bag, grab water, hold snacks. I do not need the term second/third/forth photographer, I just want to soak up the knowledge. Call me support staff.
Thanks for taking the time to educate. I love your approach on things, and it has helped me be more proactive in building my business. Keep up the great work! I would also like a video on how to build second shoot website! Thank you
Has there ever been an issue with mismatched brands? I've heard someone tell me that if I don't have the same system as the main I want to assist, then I'm way less likely to work with them at all due to the file differences. I got the system I have because it does what I personally wanted to do, and built like I want (especially if I'm paying X amount for it). What I don't want to run into is somebody that would expect me to rent/buy into a whole new system every time I work with them. At that point it would just make more sense to do my own networking to be a 1st, but I don't know.
PEOPLE BE HATING! main photographers complaining about what camera brand seconds shoot with is MY NUMBER ONE PET PEEVE. I never really care what my seconds shoot with and I'm always able to make the photos look great. I HATE it when you see people looking for seconds and they're all "must be experienced. must shoot canon. must shoot full frame. must know and have their own off camera flash setup" It's stupid. I'm not a fan. Because of people asking all of this however IF and whenever I do second it's hard for me to second because most no one will take me shooting crop sensor and Fujifilm.
@@kenuwhoknew I spent all last year 2nd shooting Fuji xt3 for a lead on a Canon R6. Not a problem. I shot the kind of work (documentary) that he liked and that's all the matters. He can make it all look the same in Lightroom.
Yes! I am a husband with our two toddlers and a math teacher and would like to help my good friend with her weddings! It took so long to be able for her to say yes for me to tag along because she had so many other things lined up!!! She even says my pictures are very good but her schedule didn’t allow me to take photos with her. But soon it will happen.
Because it's dark. Generally you're going to get better results out of your camera if there lighting is good, and when it gets dark the lighting isn't great. Yes you can just turn up your ISO but that's not going to get great results.
@@jbivphotography Thanks for answering my question! Sorry this might sounds silly, Is that only apply to indoor? Do you have a photo of wedding reception with flash I can refer to?
Second shooting is a waste of time if you value your time. Everyone needs second shooters but the compensation is usually so terrible, it's offensive; thumbtack and yelp are full of just crappy clients who don't value your work. So to hear any first photographer whining about problems with second photographers is not very compelling, break out the tiny violins for the guy who can't pay more than $50 per hour for a wedding while you haul around $6k of gear and apparently...water. There is no way that you can learn from a first while they are working, firsts rarely provide feedback. Nobody has time for that crap. I agree with styled shoot advice though, totally worth it whether you use models or whatever. Any main photographer who can't be bothered to get back to you isn't worth working with, they are too disorganized to be worth your time. The truth is that EVERY photographer is busy but inability to answer emails is tantamount to inability to do your job. Anyway the ultimate advice is, if you want to shoot weddings just go do that. Don't worry about the rest of this second shooting bs, that is a favor you do for friends and free meals.
Love this channel, and I'm not even a photographer. I work as a consumer support analyst for BorrowedLenses and came across your page. Loving the content.
I am interested in the building second photographer website. I didn't see any videos within your library dealing with lighting during wedding/reception. Great video. thank you.
Awesome! Yeah I haven't really gotten a chance to do too many reception lighting photos. I do have one video that's a pretty good representation of my approach at reception however. You can check it out here. ua-cam.com/video/SotlvOKK2Co/v-deo.html
What are your best tips to be a second photographer?
Hold lights, see how images are made. Be the 3rd shooter and get feedback. Make compelling images over time and work your way up to being a second.
After watching hundreds of videos of how to shoot in manual mode, using flash , LG, PS and composition. At the same time I took every chance I had to photograph family ,friends, concerts,etc. Once I felt confident using my camera I contacted some photographers in my area offering my services as a SS. Long story short, one of them answered and he is being my mentor for 2 yrs. By 2023 I’m shooting 10 weddings for him as a main photographer, not only that but he is referring me a lot and I booked 6 weddings on my own thanks to him.
My advice, be committed, reliable and dependable. You might be rejected but there’s always somebody in need of your help. Thanks John for this kind of videos.
Sound advice! I screenshot that for inspo ❤️
A video on how to set up a second shooter website page would be great!
Thank you - The dedicated second shooting page is GREAT… Put that video together! :) Awesome stuff…
HEy John. I'm interested in seeing how you set up a 2nd weboage on my main site!
As someone who has been really inspired by your videos, I think this is one of the most informative narratives for those who aren't extremely confident in jumping into wedding scenarios. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
That's awesome to hear! I hope it helps out for the long term for you.
Yes, please. Can you show an example of a second photographer page?
Perfect. I'll make sure to do that!
I wish you had full wedding day like us in Portugal have...being awake at 7/8 am and working 'till 2/3 am...I always have questions about how people get their creative juices going for so many hours
I started second shooting last year and now that I've worked with quite a few different people, I always like to make sure what they need out of me. They all have a different style and need different things out of a second. I'm always down to help however they need but definitely ask because it can vary alot
for sure!
As a an experienced wedding photographer by myself for over 10 years, i honestly think that styled shoots are a bad habit and, in my humble opinion, you are simply misleading customers about your actual skills. As you said, you can easily fake "high end" pictures because 1.) you can choose the perfect location, 2.) you can choose the perfect lighting situation, 3.) you can choose the perfect weather, 4.) you're having models instead of (mostly) unexperienced and excited wedding couples on their wedding day, 5.) you don't have time pressure and 6.) those models and location are set up perfectly in every detail. Surely those photos look great in your portfolio, but they were actually not taken under realistic conditions. And sucessfully handling those difficultys are showing the difference between an ACTUAL experienced wedding photographer and someone who probably fails under though conditions, because he just pretends to be experienced, by showing fake styled shoots. I've now heard several times that customers of other photographers (also in my region) where not satisfied because their actual work wasn't nearly as good as their pictures they're showing on the websites, that were taken at styled shoots and/or workshops. I hope you don't take this personally, i love your work, but this time i disagree 🙂
I agree with you 100%
Also agree👍🏻
I have heard this point of view from many "experienced" photographers and I think there is zero truth to it. Let me break down the holes in this: (1) perfect location is something you strive for in every shoot. Yeah sometimes you have to shoot in a hotel bathroom, but turns out you can do a styled shoot that includes this location. In fact, styled shoots are a time to work on challenges (2) perfect lighting is a hope for every photo session as well, and usually you still are reliant on weather--this point doesn't make sense and again you can just do a styled shoot with whatever lighting and work on adapting (3) choosing the perfect weather when you have to pay or line up people to shoot is not any better than a paying client, the weather doesn't change because you styled something (4) models come in all variations, thinking that a model is going to help you is a HUGE mistake; it's up to the photographer to make the shoot work. Honestly models for styled shoots are not great because they lack the emotional element and have no story telling background, it's actually just as hard to shoot models as anyone else (6) models and locations are NEVER setup perfectly, you'd need many thousands of dollars to do that, you know the same amount as someone spends on an actual wedding, and if you paid $10k+ for a styled shoot, well then that's some serious budget and still doesn't guarantee that ice doesn't melt, cakes don't sag, napkins don't have wrinkles, clients don't have bad makeup. Honestly the advice in this video and comments section are a bit disappointing to me, it doesn't help new photographers succeed, outside of making a website on squarespace I guess. If clients are not happy with their photos then that is their own cheap fault for not hiring a higher end photographer or not vetting clients properly. I get it, I'm cheap, too. But disappointment typically arises when the client does not feel the emotional enormity of the portraits meets their own wedding experience, and that is a skill learned from doing weddings, forcing styled shoot models to do more than pose, learning how to pose emotion, and the styled shoot is great for that along with actually working and not second shooting. I like second shooting fine for friends and fun, but IDK if it gets me any experience or value. It's just part of doing business with colleagues, and I wish I'd had that understanding from the start.
No offense taken here. I agree with you 50% as well. Basically in this context I'm mainly talking about using styled shoots as a way to build a portfolio as a second not for couples but for other photographers. While I know that in a styled shoot everything is probably ideal at least you can show other photogs that you can take decent photos. And then from there you can learn more while seconding because at the end of the day we all know real experience and shooting a wedding is the only way to REALLY learn. Styled shoots are only a small portion of that and you DEFF should not base your whole portfolio or your skill off of it. Thanks for sharing.
@@jbivphotography Thanks for your honesty reply!
Why would anyone want to have an inexperienced photographer as a second shooter while they are using styled shoots? If they want to learn they should go and assist. Don’t worry about portfolio just focus on learning.
I had a friend who is friend with a wedding photographer who criticized me with my gear that i was using.. which is the fujifilm xt3 and xt30.. he told me that my camera sucked and should switch to canon.. but honestly dont want to because this is the camera that i got used to using and invested on.. thats the reason why i love your channel so much cause your so committed on your fuji camera..😊
In the social media-driven world, it appears that one in three secondary photographers are ignorant of the unwritten rules that govern photography, which are similar to the rules that regulate sports. Today's secondary shooters are unable to preserve the confidentiality of their assignments due to their continual use of social media. This results in customers being taken by the second shooter, which occurs all too often nowadays.
Clients being taken by the second? I highly don't agree with that at all and it's the reason why it's hard to be a second now a days. I'm free and open with all of my seconds and have never felt like they take clients. There's enough work to go around. Esepcially in the wedding industry.
Literally been cold emailing all day this video was a blessing! Thank you bro.
Glad to hear it. I hope it helps land you a couple more second photographer gigs.
Yes please John branch, can you do a vid for second photography website
Awesome. I'll get that on my pipeline of videos!
@@jbivphotography thank you
How I wish I could work for ya, a fourth, fifth photographer, or even a coffee girl, just to learn how you work 😂 but I’m in Germany …
Maybe one day!
@@jbivphotography if one day I go to the states i I’ll definitely try to!
God damn a wife and 4 kids? :D be patient. check.
Thanks didn't know about second s
Thanks so much for all your videos, you are really helping the photography community.
I appreciate that!
Thank you so much for your amazing videos, they are always so helpful and informative! I just created my photography website and would love to be a second shooter for a local photographer. I already have a portfolio put together but would like to learn more from professional photographers so I can gain more knowledge and help them! Do you think its okay to reach out to local photographers to see if they will consider me if they ever need assistance at a wedding or any photo shoot? I don't want to annoy anyone but am eager to learn more! Thank you again!
I would absolutely love an example of the second shooters website page, if you haven’t already 👏
Great video Magenta Man! All NYC event photographers, I will be more then happy to hold lights, your bag, grab water, hold snacks. I do not need the term second/third/forth photographer, I just want to soak up the knowledge. Call me support staff.
I miss my XBOX Series X soooo much!! It just sits in the corner, giving me dirty looks for letting it gather dust :D
Thank you for this, super helpful. I’ve been wondering how to get started with wedding photography, so this is right on time.
Thanks for taking the time to educate. I love your approach on things, and it has helped me be more proactive in building my business. Keep up the great work! I would also like a video on how to build second shoot website! Thank you
Oh super interessing gto see how you work guys as Second Shooter in US! In Europe is totally not like this! Thank you for all tips!
6:30 LOL
Hey John, great content as always. I am waiting for a new Live editing video. I finaly decide to send my pictures :D
Hi Angela, long time no see....😂
I saw Angela on 2020 BTS！
Enough with the clapping 😂😂😂
👏👏👏
Yes please, show second photographer presentation page!
Has there ever been an issue with mismatched brands? I've heard someone tell me that if I don't have the same system as the main I want to assist, then I'm way less likely to work with them at all due to the file differences.
I got the system I have because it does what I personally wanted to do, and built like I want (especially if I'm paying X amount for it). What I don't want to run into is somebody that would expect me to rent/buy into a whole new system every time I work with them. At that point it would just make more sense to do my own networking to be a 1st, but I don't know.
PEOPLE BE HATING! main photographers complaining about what camera brand seconds shoot with is MY NUMBER ONE PET PEEVE. I never really care what my seconds shoot with and I'm always able to make the photos look great. I HATE it when you see people looking for seconds and they're all "must be experienced. must shoot canon. must shoot full frame. must know and have their own off camera flash setup" It's stupid. I'm not a fan. Because of people asking all of this however IF and whenever I do second it's hard for me to second because most no one will take me shooting crop sensor and Fujifilm.
@@jbivphotography That’s crazy. Do they not know who John Branch is lol weird
@@kenuwhoknew I spent all last year 2nd shooting Fuji xt3 for a lead on a Canon R6. Not a problem. I shot the kind of work (documentary) that he liked and that's all the matters. He can make it all look the same in Lightroom.
Yes! I am a husband with our two toddlers and a math teacher and would like to help my good friend with her weddings! It took so long to be able for her to say yes for me to tag along because she had so many other things lined up!!! She even says my pictures are very good but her schedule didn’t allow me to take photos with her. But soon it will happen.
I don't understand why we needs flash at reception?
Because it's dark. Generally you're going to get better results out of your camera if there lighting is good, and when it gets dark the lighting isn't great. Yes you can just turn up your ISO but that's not going to get great results.
@@jbivphotography Thanks for answering my question! Sorry this might sounds silly, Is that only apply to indoor? Do you have a photo of wedding reception with flash I can refer to?
damn my comment a few weeks back came thru didn't it
Second shooting is a waste of time if you value your time. Everyone needs second shooters but the compensation is usually so terrible, it's offensive; thumbtack and yelp are full of just crappy clients who don't value your work. So to hear any first photographer whining about problems with second photographers is not very compelling, break out the tiny violins for the guy who can't pay more than $50 per hour for a wedding while you haul around $6k of gear and apparently...water. There is no way that you can learn from a first while they are working, firsts rarely provide feedback. Nobody has time for that crap. I agree with styled shoot advice though, totally worth it whether you use models or whatever. Any main photographer who can't be bothered to get back to you isn't worth working with, they are too disorganized to be worth your time. The truth is that EVERY photographer is busy but inability to answer emails is tantamount to inability to do your job. Anyway the ultimate advice is, if you want to shoot weddings just go do that. Don't worry about the rest of this second shooting bs, that is a favor you do for friends and free meals.
Tip 5 sounds like a little PTSD lol
Love this channel, and I'm not even a photographer. I work as a consumer support analyst for BorrowedLenses and came across your page. Loving the content.
Glad to hear you're enjoying the channel! Thanks so much.
Yes, I'd love to see asecond photographer's website.
You got it!
I am interested in the building second photographer website. I didn't see any videos within your library dealing with lighting during wedding/reception. Great video. thank you.
Awesome! Yeah I haven't really gotten a chance to do too many reception lighting photos. I do have one video that's a pretty good representation of my approach at reception however. You can check it out here. ua-cam.com/video/SotlvOKK2Co/v-deo.html
@@jbivphotography I am anxious for your wedding photographer tutorials.
nahhh bruhhh @6:30 was just wayyyy to funny 😂😂😂😂😂😂
LOOOOOOOOOOL
Love this info. Cherished gems.
Glad it was helpful!
Great info! Thanks John!
Glad it was helpful!
First here
Appreciate that speed and support! ❤️
Thanks ❤❤💯🙏
You're welcome 😊
Super helpful!
Glad it was helpful!