Line 6 HX Stomp versus Vintage Fender Deluxe Reverb, Same IR's.
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- Опубліковано 22 січ 2020
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In this video I compare my Silverface Fender Deluxe Reverb with the Line 6 HX Stomp. How does a vintage tube amp compare to a modern digital modeler?
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Thanks for watching! I’d love to hear what other kinds of videos you’d like to see, HX stomp or other wise!
Michael W. Westbrook more HX Stomp modelling, maybe comparing modelled effects against real pedal counterparts
Derek D Got one coming next week!!
Men great video. I would love to see high gain models like the archon compared to the amp sim on the stomp
You may already be doing this, but I’m always using hi/lo cut to tame the top end of these models.
Yeah, I will for live use for sure. I didn’t in the comparison just to level the playing field
@Rhett Shull I just thought the same thing after having watched ur vid about it a couple days ago! BTW that Plexi vid was lethal bro!👍
Why? Just turn the treble down
@@MarcoRaaphorst which program do you use to modify the ir?
This demonstrates how it all comes down to splitting hairs. It's a Golden age for home recording.
Absolutely! So many good solutions around these days
I know they don't sound exactly the same, but I think you just sold me on the stomp. Didn't realize this thing sounded THAT good, and for live use I don't think the audience would notice at all! Great content!
Thanks so much for this--excellent comparison.
Love the video Michael ! You got the stomp sounding awesome !
Thanks! It’s a great piece of gear
Just found your channel from your video with Rhett Shull. Great stuff! This vid was a great reminder to watch the whole video before commenting, as until about 7:40 I was thinking "input impedance"! One tip I saw from a Line6 tech who was working with Josh Smith to dial in some tones is to try putting some sort of gain/ volume block before your amp model and dial the gain back a bit before it hits the amp. I think Line6 has a pretty hot signal (for lack of a better way to put it) which ends up hitting the amp harder than you might in real life, so when that's dialed back, you can then adjust your amp model controls to compensate for it.
Anyway, new fan here! Keep up the great work!
Seems like the amp is more alive and present. This is something I’ve found with effects pedals versus cranked amp at home. I love both for different settings but there is something about a cranked amp even when attenuated that’s is just different and awesome and fun to play. In a live situation it doesn’t matter I guess
Honestly, I liked the stomp. The amp seemed a little harsh to my ears. I liked a lot the top end of the modeller, that crisp that was almost hi-if. So I guess, no need for a Kemper in the end. Thank so much for the video and cheers from Spain.
Really appreciate the effort into trying to match the tone as close as possible. Gives a realistic expectation of what the HX-S can do with this specific amp. Thanks! Dug the opening tune too.
Jeffrey Jankosky Thanks!!
Hey Mike. Great videos- good quality stuff! Keep it up my friend.
Thanks!
Very useful and interesting video. Keep up the good work!
Thanks!
I love the hx stomp amp models. I once showed a friend of mine a similar comparison and he could not tell the amps apart! :D Would love to have that vintage fender amp tho.
Great playing and great comparison !
Brad Ludwick Thanks!
The HX Stomp sounds great ! With the recent firmware updates and compact size it's hard to beat at it's price point !
My 2c, I could hear the differences but really great and very useable sounds.
Great b2b comparison video, thanks!
Thanks for watching!
I think both sound great! One is a digital modeler and the other is a tube amp but one of them is a lot easier to carry. Your intro song Kicks ass!!!
Another great video. Really sweet playing at the beginning. It bugs me too that they have extra controls on certain amps. Yours is a great sounding amp, and it’s not like you didn’t get it close, but the amp just has that something that Helix doesn’t have.
Thanks! Yeah, when I was editing everything they sounded closer than I thought at the time. Funny how that works sometimes
great video as always dude!the amp just sounds more alive imo! give me three good amps to choose from, three good cabs/speakers and il happily forego having the digital option of having hundreds of amp/cab models. harder on the back and nowhere near as practical to transport but thats the price you pay for the real deal! keep up the good work.
This is an awesome video, thanks for posting. One thing people don't fiddle with enough IMHO is the bias, ripple, hum etc. It can have a profound impact on the sound. Also I noticed you have the Ch Vol down really far. Someone on the gear page noticed that the Ch Vol compresses the signal the higher it is turned up. So maybe try turning that up and turning the output volume down to compensate. This might bring back some of that compression I'm hearing in the real amp?
Ive been tweaking the Helix floor for a few years so I know how frustrating it can be. I use to mess with input impedance. But now I just set it for 1M and find the sound with all the other settings Ive mentioned.
They both sound great. As you were trying to get the model closer it sounded like the model needed less drive. Like the drive was pushing the treble in a way that wouldn’t allow you to nail it. The drive was exaggerating the highs. Very cool video. I’m at otal newb to the HX Stomp and these videos are great.
Awesome comparison again. The input impedance seemed to help quite a bit. If you do more of these it would be cool to hear how the amps react to an external overdrive pedal and one of the Helix drives.
Thanks! I’m currently working on a video comparing an Analogman King of Tone and the HX counter part.
I don’t subscribe to much. 2nd vid I’ve seen from Michael, just watched the 2204 comparison. Just what I was looking for. Gonna watch the Matchless vid next. 10/10
Maybe someone has said this already, but the to try comparison might have been recording your real Deluxe, then comparing that to the HX. Thanks for the comparison, both sound great!
I like the crunchiness from the real amp, but for the clean tones the stomp sounds much clearer and chimey, great video!
Thanks!
cool, i just commented on your previous hx video asking if you tried input impedence, now i see you did in the video. cool!
Yeah, it made a difference for sure! I need to go back and try different ones again on the Matchless. I landed on 1 meg initially for that one (the Matchless)
Who the hell is giving this a thumbs down? Thanks for the great content!
😂Thanks for watching!
I love this series!! Please if you can do more a/b! Great content!! :)
Thanks! Planning to have a video this week comparing the HX to a vintage Marshall.
@@MichaelWWestbrook That's gonna be awesome! Really quality content man!
Keep it up 🙏
The difference is in the high mids (Helix is scooped compared to the amp) plus the Helix is producing some high frequencies your amp can't produce.
Saw this for the first time today, would be great to revisit this with the UA dream 65!
I feel like the Deluxe has a bit more girth and roundness on the bottom end. Maybe adding some bottom on the Stomp would get closer. But, yeah, there’s just a top end “air” in the Deluxe that the Stomp just doesn’t capture. The Stomp has more chime but it’s a strident chime, almost harsh. The Deluxe is smooth and not spiky. It’s a hard thing to nail down.
Yeah, absolutely! There’s a difference for sure but still impressive that’s it’s as close as it is.
Another great video. I play a Tele through a 65’ Deluxe.
ZELLA RECORDS Thanks! Can’t beat that combo
Great series you'r doing man!
Have you considered adding an EQ on the HX to get closer to the real amps?
Thomas Raimer Thanks! And yes, I will do that if I’m gigging with it but for the sake of comparisons I thought I’d keep it more simple. I might drive myself insane if I gave myself more options to tweak 😂
Cool, making me want to A/B my old fenders and marshall with my HX stomp. Never taken the time
Yeah, it’s interesting to hear them back to back. I’ll have a Marshall video coming out in a few weeks!
DO IT!
Michael W. Westbrook right on, love to hear it
Matheus Ferreira haha will do
As you noted in your other video, 2 specimens of the same model amp will sound different. I think the models are all done based upon schematics, and so a specific amp will not likely sound just like the model. But having said that, what I am hearing is that your amp differs from the model in the lower mids. I'd probably try adding a 10 band eq and see if I could find the right freq to dial in / out. But as you said, it sounds really good regardless.
Maybe try bringing down the sag to give the HX more of that ‘forward’ sound? Great playing by the way. I really enjoyed that opening track
Great video. I find most digital options have that high end sheen that you need to roll off with a post EQ. It is different than working with a physical amp that has way more limitations in eq. So you need to "dumb down" the hi fi tonality of modelers. Is it cheating? Not when you consider what goes on in editing in studios that the listener will never know. There's also the issue of which deluxe reverb Line 6 used for the modeling. Like you mentioned, it might sound a lot different from yours. But the end result is so damn good that in a mix no one would know. And if you didn't have another amp to compare it to the HX would stand on its own. It's splitting hairs at this point. Love the video and your playing. cheers
Probably a good solution for this is to play with the mic positioning inside the HX stomp , if that's possible .... I bet that should do!
Jesus that song in the beginning is fantastic, that better be on an album somewhere. Getting some Charlie Hunter vibes. Where can I listen to the whole thing?? Killer!!
Thanks! The tunes just on this video. I write short “demos” on a lot of my videos to show case gear or a concept. They differ slightly in style depending on the video. I love Charlie Hunter. Definitely an influence on me early on!
I would check into the speaker cab and the mic and the mic placement on the HX storm. Also the fender amp has tubes I would probably scoop out some of the Mid Lowe’s and tweak some of the higher homes with an EQ. But I’ll bet it is from the speaker cabinet or microphone
As you tweaked the hx further and further the differences in tone did become alot less obvious and more amp like. I'm an amp guy for sure but I do alot of traveling and sometimes on air planes so kind of thinking of adding one of these to my arsenal to help with that.
Bottom line for Me:
1)Great arrangement and playing! As long as your gear isn’t so distractingly bad; great arrangement, music, and playing is always KING.
2) The helix isn’t distractingly bad at all.
3) I agree, The helix isn’t as forward without being brighter.
4) What I’ve noticed in general with modelers vs the real thing, and it seems true in this video as well, is that the tone and distortion get close but the real amp just has more of a depth and dimensionality to the notes.
All great points!
The amp certainly sounds better all around...but that said the HX Stomp performs really well for what it is. I'm impressed!
Hey Michael! Great comparison, however what impressed me the most was your tele sound around 1 min! I tried to recreate it on my Helix but failed after 2 days... I came pretty close but there is this little extra greatness what’s missing. I looked on your website to buy the preset, but I’m not sure if this sound is actually in one of your presets..? Can you help me out?
I found I got the best amp sound by running two amps in parallel, the matchstick and twin reverb then summing them back to mono into an ir and then putting an eq block after
Nice! That’s my plan if I’m just using the HX stomp. I’ve even thought about using another pedal to handle the IR’s to free up space on the HX.
How were you running the twin in Helix?
Great vid! What's the (real amp) deluxe reverb amp settings?
Hey Man. Great vid! Just wanted to ask what's your output for the HX Stomp(FRFR/ The Fender deluxe as a speaker/ DAW ). Also what IR are you using? Also is that a natural room reverb? (i dont see a reverb on the chain in the HX Stomp)
I use the legacy panner effect switching to sine or triangle or square to dial in tones when I’m close to capturing a tone from some other sound source . Keep your sound the same and try this unconventional method it works . Cheers
t perry Cool idea!
Great comparison! Surprised at how good the HX sounds. I know this video is old but curious about your settings on the deluxe reverb (actual amp) for this- sounds really great! Mine doesn’t start breaking up like that until like 6 on volume and by then it’s LOUD! Even then it’s a more aggressive overdrive than what I’m hearing on your clips here.
mine starts to break up at a 4 :(
Try to make use of the global eq, that’s a tip I got from another stomp user and it helped a lot.
I like to use the LP filter and roll of some of the highs, I’m setting it at 11-12k. I used that to try to match the sounds on your matchless video.
Anyways awesome new Chanel you got! Like your style and sounds! Keep it up! /bless
Thanks! Yeah, for live use I’ll use that for sure. I wanted to keep things consistent between the amp and the pedal as much as possible so I didn’t dive into using an eq on the Stomp. The tone is in there just need a touch of final sculpting!
Michael W. Westbrook Ah I see, well I guess thats kind of the fairest ways to compare. Liked the tones of them both, even if they don’t match 100% I would not say that the HX is a bad sound or lower quality sound, just different.
Tried out the matchstick that I tweeked to the same as your last video in church but had a hard time to get a good drive sound with the models in the HX, could not cut through the mix with out sounding super “burky” any tip or ideas?
/bless
Joel del Pilar I think great cab IR’s really help. I find I like IR’s better than the cabs/mics built into the HX
Great video. Would the Fullerton be a better comparison and where is the IR High Freq cutoff?
Joe Johnson The Fullerton is a Tweed Deluxe. Great amp but very different style! No high frequency cut off on the HX or Amp.
Great tones, man! Really dig the track in the begining. Would you mind sharing what software you use for the drum programing?
Thanks!! Ez Drummer! It’s great for creating songs quick and easy. Great sounds too
@@MichaelWWestbrook Cool, I use it too! any EZX (sound expansion) in particular?
I use UK Pop pretty much exclusively. I need to pick up some others or at least other MIDI packs. I’ve been really happy with the work flow.
considering buying a HX stomp so im watching your videos. But was just wondering about a comparison of the HX stomp and a fender deluxe Tone master amp or twin tone master
I think its more about the ir you are using. Probably with another IR u ll get closer. Good video Michael !!! Keep it on
Tony Martinez Both amps are using the same IR. Do you think using a different IR on both would get them closer? Or different on each?
Michael W. Westbrook different on each. It looks like the same ir reacts different depending on what u are using. So probably a more high end IR on the HX will sound closer. The transformer and power amp on the Deluxe reverb makes the ir different ( close enough but different )
Tony Martinez Gotcha! Yeah, I think for the sake of comparison (and not driving my self insane with more options) I kept the IR’s the same. Thanks for the comment!
Michael W. Westbrook oh yeah for comparison is gr8 to keep both the same. Now to get closer you need to chamge that !
Nice video. I think a little tweak on IR hi-cut or global eq will make them souds almost identicaly. Its most often speaker type thing. Another IR or real cab will do the job ;-)
Blazej Andersz Thanks! These both used the same speaker IR. Amp was running direct using a Two Notes Captor. An eq or low pass puts the HX 99% there though for sure!
@@MichaelWWestbrook btw. I'm really surpised how current modellers (well tweaked) can be close to real tube Amp. Feel and sq wise.
Blazej Andersz yeah, It’s pretty impressive.
Has the bright cap in the real amp anything to do with the difference between it and the modelled version?
Use the Normal Deluxe channel on the HX (no bright cap) and compensate with more treble! Will get you closer
Interesting! I’ll have to check that out
i have helix native i use the shelving eq to take out the uper treble that the actual amp doesn't have
Having analysed with ozone the difference between the HX and the amp, there is mid bum @ 1,5K of 5d as well as a huge boost @50hz. You would get closer by choosing US Double Norm which is closer soundwise to your amp
Even though the US Double Norm is modeled after a Twin and not a Deluxe? My main goal was to compare the Amp with the Model that is made after a Deluxe.
@@MichaelWWestbrook I am not expert in fender, but after taking a look at schematic of both the Delux et Twin they are quite similar. Anyway, just push 5db @ 1,5khz after the amp, you will be much closer to your amp. I matched perfectly your amp tone with your helix tone with ozone matcheq and main difference is this 1,5Khz push. I like a lot the Helix Deluxe, but prefer your amp tone. So now I push 1,5khz on my helix deluxe.
Another great comparison video. The HX Stomp definitely has more "chime". The amp sounds more to my liking but both sound great. The HX Stomp sounds are usable for sure.
Which cab IR are you using on this video?
Cheers!
Sergio Rodrigues Thanks! I used the MBritt “Clean Blend 5”. It’s geared towards Fenders and was a darker option of the other “Clean Blend” options.
@@MichaelWWestbrook Perhaps it could get even closer with a different IR, great job with these vids! As for wishes, I often feel clean sounds are left out of many people's comparisons between modellers and real amps. Your vids have a high quality in sound, what I look for and are very pleased with when found, as in your vids!
TheSebdav Thanks! I genuinely appreciate the feedback. I could have spend more time on clean tones in this video for sure. There is some a little bit further into the video but not as much as the overdriven sounds.
Have you had a chance to check out the new Bassman Model? It is pretty solid
I haven’t! Using the HX mostly for effects these days
@@MichaelWWestbrook gotcha. They did a great job with it. Love the channel, friend
Any thoughts on the LIne 6 Pod Go vs the HX stomp? Just subscribed, you're awesome.
Hooter Bear Thanks! POD Go seems great. Not the best for my uses but as a complete rig seems like a cool like set up!
@@MichaelWWestbrook thanks for the fast response!
REAL close in my phones!
I understand that you are using the same IR as part of the comparison, but I would try rolling off some of the highs on the IR to match the amp sound.
🔥🔥🔥🔥
When you increase your treble or presence, decrease your gain or drive. Also did you work with your global eq? You should roll off the highs above a certain point
I specifically don’t adjust the global eq on these comparisons so we are just comparing the model directly to the amp. You could get them closer with an eq if you spent the time with it for sure!
Yea I was gonna say did you try lowering the DRIVE ?
Hey, nice comparison and great tones!
What‘s the ir you‘re using?
I don’t remember but I think it was from Michael Britt
Thanks!
The real amp sounded like it had more midrange in the 1-3kHz region whereas the model sounded more scooped. That could be from cap age differences, I think you said you used an IR of the speaker in the Deluxe, so that shouldn't be an issue. It could be a difference in the bright cap used or the position of the volume knob. Turn master all the way up on the HX Stomp Deluxe model.
With the volume up all the way the factory presets seem very low, do you recommended turning up the volume up at the end of the path, not sure what you call the
I’d turn the volume up at the end or on the cab block/IR first.
Just a thought, drop the sag down to 1 or 2 for a more forward tone. A bunch of sag will kill punchiness.
Deluxe sounds sooo good. What's your recording chain for the amp?
Thanks! Deluxe into a Two Notes Captor (reactive load box) into the Two Notes Wall of Sound software. On this I was using Michael Britt cab IR’s loaded in the software. This allows me to record at anytime without bothering my family or the neighbors. And honestly, it sounds more consistent and I get great tones more easily than mic’ing up a cab at home.
@@MichaelWWestbrook Thank you!
Sounds really close. In terms of the base of tone and kind of overdrive. You can really hear it is a deluxe. Different yes, but in A/B I wouldn't be able to guess which is the real one. Forwardness came down to volume to my ears, and a little bit high end in the stomp. Also maybe a high cut would be useful on the IR.
Yeah, I thought about the high cut for the IR as well. I’m not using that on the amp so I wanted to keep it consistent between the 2. The forwardness feels like a difference in the mids/high mids to me.
Put an EQ after the cab block.
How were you comparing them? Did you mic the Deluxe with the same mic, distance, and placement of the HX Stomp model?
I mention it in the video… I use the same IR for both
@MichaelWWestbrook how can you use an IR with a real vintage tube amp? It has a line out?
I know this video is 4 years old but having spent alot of time with the Stomp and a real deluxe I definitely think the Deluxe Normal model would be ALOT closer to the real amp. The deluxe vibe channel on the HX is too bright and scooped compared to the real amp and you can definitely hear that in this video.
You have the Helix mids up way high, that's why they sound so different. The Deluxe is famously scooped, you can't dime an emulator's mids and have it sound the same.
It’s up because that’s where it sounds the most similar not because that’s were it should be on paper.
Tube amps just seem to have a soul
Definitely a little something extra!
Probably a booster in front of the hx would work to even out the sound.
Just my thoughts sounds like you could use a compression pedal with the HX Stomp and you'd be there
Cyb3r 3vil Yeah, they get real close at the end!!
@@MichaelWWestbrook yeah was a great review I just got one actually waiting for it to be delivered only seen one demo of it
And was hooked so was checking found yours TFS enjoyed
Thanks for the reply
@@MichaelWWestbrook Oh new Subscriber here yeah got impressed!🤟
Cyb3r 3vil Thanks! I’ll be doing some more comparisons coming up.
What is your telecaster? Custom shop?
American Vintage Reissue - I cant remember if it’s 62’ or 63’ but far less common that the 52’ Blackguard AVRI
the only guitar multiefects that is very close to a real AMP is the KEMPER PROFILE STAGE and still not the same tone of an AMP so is depend what do u looking for .
Hi, I think the amp have more headroom and the sound of the hx is a little compressed.
But very close
Yeah, very close indeed!
Yeah,that’s why the marshals type amps are closer,because they are naturally more compressed amps!
With a bit more sag and some mids, the HX Stomp is the same as the real thing. What a great era to play guitar!
i think, the differences in sound also have a lot to do with the microphones you used and which are set up in the Stompbox. Which Mic did you use on your fender amp?
60sec Music Both the HX stomp and the amp we’re recorded with the same Impulse responses so that takes that variable out of the equation.
@@MichaelWWestbrook what? didn't you record the real amp live?
I think your amp just has more Punch to it but pretty damn close....
Sounds like the amp has more natural compression where the HX sounds like its over compensating in the mid to mid highs and definitely way too open on the highs.
I think you have been able to get the sound of HX Stomp very very close to the real amp, you couldn't do more. If I pay real attention, the only difference that I can hear is that the sound coming from the amp is richer, "fuller" than the Stomp sound (obvious). Anyway, I think that when the the guitar's sound will be mixed with all the other instruments of the song, this difference can be almost negligible.
Agreed! Depending on the song I bet 99% of people (myself included) couldn’t tell the difference in a mix.
the real amp sounds almost like there's a high end cutoff at like 5k or something.
Yeah, definitely missing that high top end
Bro, you have to share your preset and state the IR. That's 101. I will subscribe if you do so!
Settings and Cab IR are all visible in the video!
You get the HX to sound unbelievably close.
Deluxes can sound different for so many reasons, but the big ones are 1) the speaker, and 2) the tubes. Get rid of all the Russian and Chinese junk tubes and replace them with older tubes made in the USA and put in a better speaker, maybe a Celestion, or an EV and you have a completely different amp IMHO. Do those 2 things to a 65 Reissue and you're going to have an amp at least as good as one of the vintage point to point amps that costs 3 or 4 times more..
prefered the stomp. amp sounded nasal to me. pretty dang close tho.
Is the same IR?
Yes, the amp is running direct through an impulse response. The HX Stomp is running the same IR
Michael W. Westbrook 👍
Please don't overlook the importance of setting the input impedance of the HX stomp. It is the first adjustment in the the line ,and alters the behaviour of the top end reaching the amp!! P.s. I use a full size Helix, in regards to the Variax input detail ;-)
Christian Boddum Absolutely! I think I mention that later in the video
@@MichaelWWestbrook Oh yes you did, but I was just adressing some of the comments ;-) Good work man !! BTW dialing down the impedance lowers the input gain as well, to my ear FWIW. So I usually go for 136k. I used the pad for a while, but it took too much off the gain, and when using my Variax the pad isn't ingaged, so to have a level playing field, I don't use the pad anymore.
Christian Boddum Nice!
The amp seems to have more mids.
Marlon Borreo yeah, I felt that way in general with the model. When I started it was so drastically different in the mids I was unsure I would be able to get them in the ball park.
Isn't the definition of insanity chasing yr tail expecting different results? Lolz 😇
Anything line6 makes is for bedroom players. If you want something that sounds good, "like"a really good fender amp then they have it. If you are a professional musician, producer, engineer, then only real amps will do.
I bet the real deluxe has the bright cap clipped
It’s all about the speakers. Use the same speaker cabinet or impulse
I did...
@@MichaelWWestbrook Oh, I should listen to the parts where you talk also. lol. I definitely notice the hx stomp has a little more scooped mids and a brighter high end, that is hard to notch out. I have stopped using the HX Stomp completely after I got the Kemper Stage.
lilmrdr 😂 Yeah, I agree, there’s a big difference in the mids. The HX stomp could be described as clearer in some ways which can be useful.