"Why are we moving to electricity? Is it because we want to go to renewable energy? NO! It's because we're tired of people who are controlling the crude supplies for the Earth so we want to move to the guys who control the lithium supplies for the Earth." Finally, I've a reliable source now to back my understanding of the EV space. Thank you guys.
I love how Karthi is trying to explain something technical and Shumi is completing his sentences with a sarcastic example, and Karthi has to accept it because Shumi makes sense 😂. Had fun watching the video! Please don’t stop!.
Shumi speaks magic. He is the vishma pitamah of motorcycle journalism in my book so no surprise there but the way he speaks always brings a smile to my face. I mean the way he puts his witty punch lines quickly in the middle of a serious conversation is outstanding. More power to you 2. Lots of love ❤
For me personally, the EV(Ather for me) is more about savings than environmental awareness. For my daily commute, about 22kms, the Ather costs me about ₹110 per month on Warp mode. My bike would cost me about ₹2200-2800. Now I just save that money for longer rides on the weekend. Honestly for In-City, the Ather is actually quite enjoyable.
@@motorinc My bike for the weekend is unfortunately on Shumi's hate list😅. Its the Bajaj Dominar 400 UG. I test rode almost all bikes in the 400CC segment and the Dominar just got my heart. It somehow just fits me. I mostly use end up doing short rides 100-250kms. However I do have a few 600-800km trips on it too. Hoping to do far longer trips soon, wallet permitting 😅
His “hate” is always a _global_ thing which is to say people buying these are more likely to have 1: skipped a chance to get a bike 2: will eventually realise they don’t like this bike. But there will always be people who will thoroughly enjoy a bike that didn’t do well in a review. That’s not a problem. That’s WHY we insist that our reviews cannot be more than a guide. You must use your brain, preferences and budgets to decide for _yourself._ The man who “hates” the Dominar also says the best bike in the world is the one in your garage. 😊 We’re just happy that you’re enjoying your bike!
@@motorinc I can say that I test rode and then decided. I have been watching Shumi's videos since well before I started riding. Living vicariously. The Dominar to be honest just sort of fits me. It's difficult to explain, the Duke ofcourse had the power bump (budget wasn't an issue). The RR310 also interested me. The Dominar was somehow just right.
First of all, Good Job. Lovely to see your 'sweet banter' over EVs. I would like to add my few cents to this as well (in case you do decide to read this comment *fingers crossed*) Background: I have been a Petrolhead for more than 13 years now. Love it, live it, live by it. Been riding long and far and have changed 5 motorcycles. Been riding as a community with multiple riding groups (10-20 riders) and with xBhp(100-150 riders) as well... and so on.. Last year, I was in the market for a Scooter for the wife and tested many (Ather, iQube, Okinawa, Hero, Benling) finally ended up with an Ampere Magnus. Soon after me buying an EV, my Dad also booked the Bajaj Chetak EV and now we have 2 EVs in the Family. We are 5 individuals in our family and we all have our vehicles as follows: 1. Dad : Bajaj Chetak EV 2. Mom : Suzuki Access 125 3. Me : Suzuki Gixxer SF 250 4. My wife : Ampere Magnus EV 5. Younger Brother : TVS Ronin (recently bought after selling off his Classic 350) 6. All of us together : Tiago AMT Since last year I am also part of an EV Startup (which should remain unnamed). My 2 Cents: Most of the 'Commuter' EV scooters in the market today including but not limited to Hero Electric (not the Vida), Ampere, Okinawa, Benling, Pure etc, do things the commuter way i.e. Mass Produce the Shit out of their EVs. Same components can be seen in all of the EVs I have named. Surprisingly, they get away with:- 1. Suspension that does not work (literally). 2. Instrument Console that shows 1km for every 720 meters travelled. 3. Brakes that act as Suggestions. 4. Tyres that are incompetent to say the least. 5. Wiring job that mocks the ICAT certification. 6. Testing (which is a joke in most cases) To summarize, Some pompous rich dude owing to his FOMO, decided to get into an EV business, mass bought the same body and chassis, plonked a battery and a Motor (most of the time from China), put his/her name and called it a day. My fear is that they are mixing components like they are making a new Cocktail. Hardest of suspension along with 10 inch wheels, Great FUCKING Idea. Now my spine and arms feel like they need re adjustment. And all that can be fixed, if they do proper TESTING. But they don't and they WON'T. For them its just a way of saying "If it moves from point A to B, its a vehicle". Why they do it, again, Its FOMO... All of them think that its Now or Never. We have been bombarded with questions like "When are you going to launch, you are already 2 years late?" Its that fear that makes a manufacturer launch a product that has never been tested (like it should have). If this keeps on going, we will see many EVs in the market that people like us (motorcyclists) will start rejecting. EVs have to be approached just like a motorcycle would.. Testing, Testing and Testing.... and then..... Some more testing.. Thanks for reading if you did. Bless you. Keep Riding and Keep Being Awesome.
900% agreed. The policy was short-sighted, it was exploited by a series of brands and here we are today. I’m glad the Govt is looking at FAME subsidies and reclaiming money from companies that failed to meet many of the standards.
@@shu_mar Like you said, FAME IS FAKE. And certification is BLIND. We had a half an hour session with Mr Tarun Mehta from Ather and he revealed something scary, that the number of EV brands that are in the making are about 20 times the number of brands already in the market. And we haven't even heard their names. The fact that they will suddenly appear out of nowhere, 'Launch' a product within a month is baffling. And don't even get me started on the ICAT Certification (That is a whole another story). The fact is, they will get certification in no time, and we will have another EV scooter/motorcycle which will ride like an out of tune E-Rikshaw. The whole system is setup in a "Manufacturer's way" not in a "Rider's way".... While it should be the other way around. Anyway, good to get this out. Bless you man.
One thing that I can observe watching both is how seamlessly they're communicating with each other just using their eyes❤️❤️. Nothing fancy edits, no nonsense paragraphs. Pure knowledge transfer ❤️❤️. And topping it up we've lots of humour created by our very own professors ❤️❤️
I personally think that the moment that the KTM 390 adventure review happened on PD, I realized that these are the best goddamn Auto journos in the country. These 2 have a sense of connection no Bluetooth offers. That was a such a beautiful thing to watch. Really happy that Motorinc happened. Best of luck of your future endeavours dear sirs.
Congrats on the new beginning guys 🥳. Something feels off when the both of you are not near a motor or in the outdoors. Although this closed door venture is very smartly done. 👍🏼 Reminds me the very serious, very intellectual, Huberman setting. But a few light hearted, on the fly episodes wouldn't hurt. Something the Big Forkers are doing is absolutely entertaining and will keep the likes of me more invested in the show. All the best 🤘🏽
it’s true! Until I had a chance to ride the Ather, IQube, Ola etc it was a big deal for me even as a tester (our tests/shoots last longer than normal use pattern). But now? I know better.
Bought the 450X Gen 2 a couple of months back for my wife. She absolutely has no anxiety. It says 6kms range & she still makes a 9km commute. Same can't be said about me :-P. But what a conversation man. at 0230am, thought I would watch a couple of mins now & sleep, but eff you guys, had me glued. Super kudos! Kartik Schumi keep this up guys. Hate you for keeping me awake but super love for the content.
Loved the casual nature along with the witty jokes. Excellent points, hadn't really thought about the commercial vehicles. I maintain that of all vehicles, scooters are the most abused lot. Constant acceleration and braking with a CVT is not what it's happy doing or efficient, but an EV is. Apart from the e-waste disaster it is also the economic impact the kit assemblies(fly by night operators) are going to have since they're used a lot by folks with low incomes like the delivery guys. I never got a straight answer when I enquired about the availability and cost of spares like battery and motor even from the more popular brands. On top of that I would be surprised if they last more than 8 years.
Took a test ride. Booked at once. Had to wait for 3-4 months. But it was worth the wait. Automatically upgraded to gen-3. Loving the Ather❤. Also we can easily get more kms than what they show in display with constant acceleration. Never broken the trust 👌.
I am a bit erm, under the influence , maybe that's why its hitting me too much , but damn, absolutely loving this new venture between you two, the audio too is crisp, also wondering who listens to a podcast when high??
I love the setup and production for this as an audio only podcast. If I was to watch a video I would have found it a little more engaging to watch you talk with a more outdoorsy/interactive setup than a desk. But overall love the content of the podcast itself. All the best guys!
My two cents in the discussion. Coming from owning a Dominar 400 for touring and an Innova for family trips in the past, I've completely switched to EVs. I currently own a Bajaj Chetak, Tork Kratos and the MG ZS EV. The switch was made as I got busy with my work and the rising fuel prices. I knew for a fact that apart from my family trips, there was no way I'd spend a fortune on the Dominar for solo trips. The ZS EV costs lesser for a family to travel than the Dominar for a single person. I'm ok with riding the Kratos for my daily commute rather than long rides now. And to be honest, me and my family made this switch only because we love the EV experience and it has nothing to do with going green.
Hey Shreyas - I’d say the MG ZS EV is the game changer there as it has the potential of doing everything. Would love be posted on your experience with them as we go along! 😊
I get the point that EVs are the future and they have the most exhilarating torque delivery and that super fun acceleration. But do you guys not feel that electrification is commoditising cars and bikes? Without the ICE and the accompanying sound, are the vehicles being robbed of their character? Everything is so software driven that we miss that marvel of simple old school engineering. Without character, an electric scooter is just an appliance like a washing machine or microwave built to accomplish a specific task.
Podcasting stuff is great for a playlist in your channel but please do bring out the exciting outdoor reviews as well where we can see the good old Kartikeya Singhee in full form (man, i already miss those reviews) 💪 P.S. You guys are the best, no two ways about it but I guess, Shumi needs to relax a bit for podcasting so that it sounds more like a discussion than a debate. One need not be funny or sarcastic always 😉
Thanks Jaidev! More content and more types of content is planned... stay tuned! Shumi not being funny and/or sarcastic? Oh there's a tough challenge.. 😉
I believe that it is not just about looking at the engine in isolation and looking at its efficiency. Look at the life of the engine and how cheap it is to maintain an ICE engine. When I look at an EV, I am looking at 1. Motor Maintenance which does not look cheap going by what is posted by existing owners on the internet. 2. Battery cost, which is about 40% of the car's cost, if not more. I have an almost 10 year old car and only in the 9th year did I spend some considerable money changing the timing chain and fixing up the clutch. Otherwise, it has always been Engine Oil, Spark Plugs and Air Filter only. Which EV is going to be so cheap to maintain over a decade. 3. Heavier cars so faster wearing out of tyres. So I am running through more sets of tyres which are not manufactured in a carbon neutral cycle. 4. Charging infrastructure. Like you already mentioned is not clean unless I install Solar Panels on my home roof and only charge at home. 5. The car industry is moving towards making cars like an FMCG. Use for like 6 to 7 years and dump because the battery replacement cost will be crazy absurd for anyone who is not prepared for it. Hell people don't mind paying for a new phone but won't replace the phone battery and continue to use it. 6. SO MUCH ELECTRONICS and COMPUTERIZATION of the whole driving experience. What will I do with the torque when I am crawling at 20kph most of the time? So in all of this, EVs just look like a lame excuse for the government and business to make more money and get customers to believe a holier narrative.
17:43 guys the freedom point hits home. I’ve been an Ola owner for the past 2 years with enough craze to be the first delivery in Mumbai but now it’s not enough and am looking to get back to the ice side
One thing few realize is the massive upgrade of grid infra required to charge one EV per family, usually at night. As it is, we don't have the best grids in the world. If I could spend 100 kwh a day without the power company asking for a commercial license, I'd be mining bitcoin to buy petrol bikes rather than charge EVs
True! Switzerland just banned EVs for the winter saying they’re concerned charging might affect grid loads otherwise used for heating. If everyone in India suddenly went to EVs overnight, we’d break our grid for sure
There is only one discussion that should be had about EV's and that is from the perspective of the environment. Since they are touted as the solution to environmental concerns and sport that green number plate. But a manufacturer like Volvo has admitted to a lot more CO2 emissions being produced as a result of making an EV as compared to an I.C.E. car. There are serious concerns about how electricity is produced to charge EV's. The mining (including deep sea), manufacturing, disposal and/or recycling of batteries. All issues like performance, emotional feelings, range, flexibility are secondary. First and foremost should be environmental. And probably also geopolitical as - from what I can tell, and people can correct me if I am wrong - the source of raw materials for making batteries is largely through China at the moment. One of the big reasons for moving away from fossil fuels, aside from greenhouse emissions, was that it would lessen dependency on regimes like Saudi Arabia and Russia. Is shifting that dependency to China any better? I see what appear to be alternative solutions to EV's that appear to come with a lot less environmental baggage. Looking at the automotive media today, it just seems like they are going along with manufacturers' current craze for EV's because they don't have a choice. I don't see those concerns being raised or the other alternatives being looked at closely enough.
Agreed! We believe we're in a transition, where ending fossil fuel use is more critical than any other thing. And to that end, a hiccup here and there as EVs settle in is to be expected, pending a drastically better solution
I was really missing shumi sir's humour and the knowledge he has and the best thing in the end kartikey singhegi sir's 200hp and shumi sir's ktm 😂 I'm so happy to again watching you both
Agreed, its a podcast. But since its viewed on the video format here on UA-cam, prioritising the visuals a wee bit would've helped. Felt the dimly lit room, the mic, mac, headphones and all the accompanying frills took up most of the frame, eventually lending it a generic nature. What sets this show apart from the other ones where two random dudes are talking, are the people involved here. So giving them more prominence would go a long way. P.S - Always a sucker for the old format where two friends laid back on a sofa are rambling about motorcycles
It can be longer and you could go deeper into these topics by talking some numbers to build these perspectives more clearly. Very interesting and engaging conversation, covers a wide range of topics but doesn't get overbearing or boring.
The reason mahindra didn’t capitalise on the Reva Ev was because they were 5 years early with that product. It was too expensive and it was a half baked product. And now due to rising fuel cost and the pandemic Tata got the timing bang on.
You should also have discussed the horror stories of mining in African countries for Lithium especially the Democratic Republic of Congo, where all these battery suppliers are violating human rights and destroying nature itself. Apart from that, since the battery recycling is unfortunately not the priority for the so called OEMs, people might start abandoning the batteries once they are obsolete. It can easily catch fire again and again since it's a chemical compound and it's so difficult to cease fire.
There’ll always be arguments to this but I really appreciate you guys for calling our current situation for it exactly is! EVs : fun to drive, might save you some bucks given you do your math right. Is it the future? Maybe. Is it anywhere near as sustainable as its projected, that’s a question we’ll only have answered over time. Can’t wait for cheaper hybrids tbh. Would like to see smaller hybrids to make the populous question and then make a decision. For now it’s at the extremes between petrol/EVs. CNG was never a choice ofc. Toyota if you’re paying attention: now is your time to shine! :) Meanwhile, we shall enjoy the good old diesel engines while we still can!
I agree that EVs are fun too, I rode a couple of electric scooters and i am in favor of getting an electric scooter as a secondary vehicle but the fact an EV and an ICE is different and I fell in love with ICE vehicles is something that an EV can't blur out. Also the kind of fun involved with EV and ICE are different, both of them have different feels. And Yes! I Just loved the unfiltered version of Shumi and Kartikeya Sir, Don't stop the jokes please!
So nice to see the long form of automobile podcasts back! Looking forward to more of these. Brilliantly crafted, excellent discussion, looking at all the relevant points. Loved it. PS: waiting for Shumi to say “gupbas!”
Thanks for the ASMR. Good points about the source of the energy. There’s a lot happening in the power sector with Renewable Purchase Obligations etc, but they’re just steps in the right direction. I suppose it makes sense to push EV market development in parallel. No sense in waiting for one or the other. In any case. Not now, but maybe down the line. India has a good chance with renewable energy. Lots of coastline, etc. Also good point about recycling. I’ve tried to dig, but I don’t get real answers about what happens to end of life lithium. Second and third life answers are not really.
This is absolutely the best! Such a great conversation! This is what is needed in the automotive journalism industry right now! So so good! Wishing great success on this new endeavour to both the legends! Looking forward to more such amazing videos like this. Love it! 🤌🤌❤️👏
Guys grab some tea, snacks and do the podcast on beanbags! This gives the feel of a United Nations conference with jamtyse sering talking. That sort of high class thing drove me away from Autocar India as it seemed too fake. Shumi your powerdrift podcast is just an exact representation of how it should be done.
I wish to add a point to this discussion, I feel EVs nowadays are being marketed as Vehicles that can Do it all when it literally has a lot of limitations. I do believe, be it in the future, EVs are only suitable for urban errands. For long drives, Strong hybrids, and ICEs make a lot more sense. People can argue for proof that EVs can go the distance, and I would say Time is more valuable, at least for most people. Charging my car or a bike in between a 1000 Km journey is a nightmare to imagine + the added cost of staying just to wait till charging is done. And if you see environmental hazards, cobalt used in batteries is mined and the whole process of mining to battery production causes a lot of pollution than an average ICE engine in its whole lifetime. So, If it's the future I feel it's Hydrogen fuel cells or strong hybrids. EVs just aren't there yet.
JB Straubel, former Tesla CTO already started an EV battery recycling company.... If I'm not mistaken, a large percentage of lithium is recovered during recycling
Technically, all of the lithium we have already used is recoverable and reusable. We just need to find the most efficient way to get it back and put it to use
Very important points to note. Source of energy for charging EV has to be clean. EoL batteries recycling needs to be taken care. And charging speed has to be approximately similar to ICE fuel refill time.
While podcasts are insightful and entertaining in their own way, we do want to see you guys in action. On motorcycles, in cars, in drag races, on track days, on the highways, in the Himalayas. Don't let that slip away please.
Coal powered electricity is less than 50% now in India. So we are getting there. Anyways a great podcast, I being an EV enthusiast, started the video thinking, here we go again, EV bashing by petrol heads, but the conversation was very mature. IMO, EV powered scooters will replace ICE scooters but bikes will take some time. Bikes should have min 200 kms range and a fast charger network to be completely enjoyed without anxiety.
As always, Nice video with complete reality and actual facts in it ❤. And is the next one about the 🏍️ which is gonna do a wheelie during my everyday office commute with me sitting in the backseat safely😅 😂😂
Great conversation! It was very insightful. However, one point that was missed is the high cost of manufacturing lithium-ion batteries, as well as their environmental impact. :)
Rite on , rite on. I agree with the pollution EVs are going to create, I work in the SaaS industry and deep tech, I know the greater damage that this will cause in the long run, given the fact India is still coal powered.
Podcast is my favourite medium and I am so happy to see a brilliant podcast from two of the greatest minds in motoring. This is such a natural conversation that I feel like I am the third person slowly sipping my coffee on the other end of the table, nodding along to all the wisdom that is being discussed in that room. Great one team! 😇
"Why are we moving to electricity?
Is it because we want to go to renewable energy?
NO! It's because we're tired of people who are controlling the crude supplies for the Earth so we want to move to the guys who control the lithium supplies for the Earth."
Finally, I've a reliable source now to back my understanding of the EV space. Thank you guys.
Haha! Welcome!
except that you need fossil fuel daily and lithium ion battery once in 10 year. Even after that the battery can be recycled and lithium extracted.
Shumi dropping truth bombs is exactly what i signed up for! Keep em' coming!! 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Thanks Aprameya! ♥️
I love how Karthi is trying to explain something technical and Shumi is completing his sentences with a sarcastic example, and Karthi has to accept it because Shumi makes sense 😂. Had fun watching the video! Please don’t stop!.
Bro! Thanks a ton! We will! ❤
The audio quality is spectacular!
Music to our ears! Haha thanks for dropping in in the comments Ankit!
Love that you love it! ❤
Shumi speaks magic. He is the vishma pitamah of motorcycle journalism in my book so no surprise there but the way he speaks always brings a smile to my face. I mean the way he puts his witty punch lines quickly in the middle of a serious conversation is outstanding. More power to you 2. Lots of love ❤
Thank you Soumya!
For me personally, the EV(Ather for me) is more about savings than environmental awareness. For my daily commute, about 22kms, the Ather costs me about ₹110 per month on Warp mode. My bike would cost me about ₹2200-2800. Now I just save that money for longer rides on the weekend. Honestly for In-City, the Ather is actually quite enjoyable.
Good that you've found a solution that works for you! What bike do you have for the weekend? Where do you take it?
@@motorinc My bike for the weekend is unfortunately on Shumi's hate list😅. Its the Bajaj Dominar 400 UG. I test rode almost all bikes in the 400CC segment and the Dominar just got my heart. It somehow just fits me. I mostly use end up doing short rides 100-250kms. However I do have a few 600-800km trips on it too. Hoping to do far longer trips soon, wallet permitting 😅
His “hate” is always a _global_ thing which is to say people buying these are more likely to have 1: skipped a chance to get a bike 2: will eventually realise they don’t like this bike. But there will always be people who will thoroughly enjoy a bike that didn’t do well in a review. That’s not a problem. That’s WHY we insist that our reviews cannot be more than a guide. You must use your brain, preferences and budgets to decide for _yourself._
The man who “hates” the Dominar also says the best bike in the world is the one in your garage. 😊
We’re just happy that you’re enjoying your bike!
@@motorinc I can say that I test rode and then decided. I have been watching Shumi's videos since well before I started riding. Living vicariously. The Dominar to be honest just sort of fits me. It's difficult to explain, the Duke ofcourse had the power bump (budget wasn't an issue). The RR310 also interested me. The Dominar was somehow just right.
110 rupees per month??!! Is that real?
First of all, Good Job. Lovely to see your 'sweet banter' over EVs.
I would like to add my few cents to this as well (in case you do decide to read this comment *fingers crossed*)
Background:
I have been a Petrolhead for more than 13 years now. Love it, live it, live by it. Been riding long and far and have changed 5 motorcycles.
Been riding as a community with multiple riding groups (10-20 riders) and with xBhp(100-150 riders) as well... and so on..
Last year, I was in the market for a Scooter for the wife and tested many (Ather, iQube, Okinawa, Hero, Benling) finally ended up with an Ampere Magnus.
Soon after me buying an EV, my Dad also booked the Bajaj Chetak EV and now we have 2 EVs in the Family. We are 5 individuals in our family and we all have our vehicles as follows:
1. Dad : Bajaj Chetak EV
2. Mom : Suzuki Access 125
3. Me : Suzuki Gixxer SF 250
4. My wife : Ampere Magnus EV
5. Younger Brother : TVS Ronin (recently bought after selling off his Classic 350)
6. All of us together : Tiago AMT
Since last year I am also part of an EV Startup (which should remain unnamed).
My 2 Cents:
Most of the 'Commuter' EV scooters in the market today including but not limited to Hero Electric (not the Vida), Ampere, Okinawa, Benling, Pure etc, do things the commuter way i.e. Mass Produce the Shit out of their EVs. Same components can be seen in all of the EVs I have named. Surprisingly, they get away with:-
1. Suspension that does not work (literally).
2. Instrument Console that shows 1km for every 720 meters travelled.
3. Brakes that act as Suggestions.
4. Tyres that are incompetent to say the least.
5. Wiring job that mocks the ICAT certification.
6. Testing (which is a joke in most cases)
To summarize, Some pompous rich dude owing to his FOMO, decided to get into an EV business, mass bought the same body and chassis, plonked a battery and a Motor (most of the time from China), put his/her name and called it a day. My fear is that they are mixing components like they are making a new Cocktail. Hardest of suspension along with 10 inch wheels, Great FUCKING Idea. Now my spine and arms feel like they need re adjustment. And all that can be fixed, if they do proper TESTING. But they don't and they WON'T. For them its just a way of saying "If it moves from point A to B, its a vehicle". Why they do it, again, Its FOMO... All of them think that its Now or Never. We have been bombarded with questions like "When are you going to launch, you are already 2 years late?"
Its that fear that makes a manufacturer launch a product that has never been tested (like it should have).
If this keeps on going, we will see many EVs in the market that people like us (motorcyclists) will start rejecting.
EVs have to be approached just like a motorcycle would.. Testing, Testing and Testing.... and then..... Some more testing..
Thanks for reading if you did. Bless you. Keep Riding and Keep Being Awesome.
900% agreed. The policy was short-sighted, it was exploited by a series of brands and here we are today. I’m glad the Govt is looking at FAME subsidies and reclaiming money from companies that failed to meet many of the standards.
@@shu_mar Like you said, FAME IS FAKE. And certification is BLIND. We had a half an hour session with Mr Tarun Mehta from Ather and he revealed something scary, that the number of EV brands that are in the making are about 20 times the number of brands already in the market. And we haven't even heard their names. The fact that they will suddenly appear out of nowhere, 'Launch' a product within a month is baffling. And don't even get me started on the ICAT Certification (That is a whole another story). The fact is, they will get certification in no time, and we will have another EV scooter/motorcycle which will ride like an out of tune E-Rikshaw.
The whole system is setup in a "Manufacturer's way" not in a "Rider's way".... While it should be the other way around.
Anyway, good to get this out. Bless you man.
Super glad to hear your perspective and experience! Thanks so much bro!
@@SirKart Always. Let me know whenever you need another perspective. Happy to be of any help. 🙏
Absolutely loved this conversation! Keep doing what you do Karthikeya and Shumi! Can’t wait to see more of MotorInc! Keep It unfiltered!
Thanks Soumil! That’s the plan!
Two best Indian automobile journalists in a frame 🤟 loved the content as always
Thank you Suhas!
That’s phenom to read! Thanks!
This is a quality podcast! Keep it going! Half way thru the podcast and already liking it
Alighty! Hope it hit the spot!
@@motorinc ya man the audio quality is so good man
This needs to reach more people, common youtube algorithm push this to more people.
You can help by sharing it forward! TIA! 🙏🏽
One thing that I can observe watching both is how seamlessly they're communicating with each other just using their eyes❤️❤️. Nothing fancy edits, no nonsense paragraphs. Pure knowledge transfer ❤️❤️. And topping it up we've lots of humour created by our very own professors ❤️❤️
Thanks so much bro!
I personally think that the moment that the KTM 390 adventure review happened on PD, I realized that these are the best goddamn Auto journos in the country. These 2 have a sense of connection no Bluetooth offers. That was a such a beautiful thing to watch. Really happy that Motorinc happened. Best of luck of your future endeavours dear sirs.
Crisp, to the point and a beautifully produced podcast. Great job MotorInc. Shumi fanboy for life.
Thank you Anish!
Cheers to the best we have in Automotive journalism
Congrats on the new beginning guys 🥳.
Something feels off when the both of you are not near a motor or in the outdoors. Although this closed door venture is very smartly done. 👍🏼
Reminds me the very serious, very intellectual, Huberman setting. But a few light hearted, on the fly episodes wouldn't hurt. Something the Big Forkers are doing is absolutely entertaining and will keep the likes of me more invested in the show.
All the best 🤘🏽
Thanks for the suggestion! Noted!
Thanks for the reccos Meher!
I have ridden an EV we built during my internship.
We used a 20kW peak/80Nm motor.
It was deadly... I cannot explain the feeling.
21:00. reminds of when we transitioned from film cameras to digital and in a smaller way now from DSLRs to Mirrorless.
It does? How?
Fascinating!
Amazing Amazing! When Shumi said, Range anxiety is mainly for those who don't own an EV, I am that guy with range anxiety! lol
it’s true! Until I had a chance to ride the Ather, IQube, Ola etc it was a big deal for me even as a tester (our tests/shoots last longer than normal use pattern). But now? I know better.
They gave us so many business ideas
Shumi analytical skills are very sharp
Cheers!
It will be interesting and eagerly waiting to see the Goldwing versions of EVs
It’ll be a good place to start! A large motorcycle means a decently big battery can be worked in!
Bought the 450X Gen 2 a couple of months back for my wife. She absolutely has no anxiety. It says 6kms range & she still makes a 9km commute. Same can't be said about me :-P.
But what a conversation man. at 0230am, thought I would watch a couple of mins now & sleep, but eff you guys, had me glued. Super kudos! Kartik Schumi keep this up guys.
Hate you for keeping me awake but super love for the content.
Your chemistry is amazing. Content is superb and the delivery is great. Looking forward to many more.
Thanks RP!
Loved the casual nature along with the witty jokes.
Excellent points, hadn't really thought about the commercial vehicles.
I maintain that of all vehicles, scooters are the most abused lot. Constant acceleration and braking with a CVT is not what it's happy doing or efficient, but an EV is.
Apart from the e-waste disaster it is also the economic impact the kit assemblies(fly by night operators) are going to have since they're used a lot by folks with low incomes like the delivery guys.
I never got a straight answer when I enquired about the availability and cost of spares like battery and motor even from the more popular brands. On top of that I would be surprised if they last more than 8 years.
One thing I would take away from this podcast is that Range Anxiety is definitely for people who don't own am EV yet.
This is so true
Oh man loved it.... And the Humour added by Shumi is just icing on the cake 😂
Thank you Yogi!
Right back at you ❤ !
Took a test ride. Booked at once. Had to wait for 3-4 months. But it was worth the wait. Automatically upgraded to gen-3. Loving the Ather❤. Also we can easily get more kms than what they show in display with constant acceleration. Never broken the trust 👌.
💯♥️
I am a bit erm, under the influence , maybe that's why its hitting me too much , but damn, absolutely loving this new venture between you two, the audio too is crisp, also wondering who listens to a podcast when high??
❤
some quality stuff is here, would love to see MotorInc office set up too 😅😅😅
Thank you! We show you soon!
I love the setup and production for this as an audio only podcast. If I was to watch a video I would have found it a little more engaging to watch you talk with a more outdoorsy/interactive setup than a desk. But overall love the content of the podcast itself. All the best guys!
Feedback noted and welcomed! We’re already working on this.
This one was epic. Loved the setup too. ❤
Loved it …. Loved the easy , unfiltered banter and conversation . And the discussion and topic and debate is so relevant today
Hi Di! Super happy to have you here! ❤
My two cents in the discussion. Coming from owning a Dominar 400 for touring and an Innova for family trips in the past, I've completely switched to EVs. I currently own a Bajaj Chetak, Tork Kratos and the MG ZS EV. The switch was made as I got busy with my work and the rising fuel prices. I knew for a fact that apart from my family trips, there was no way I'd spend a fortune on the Dominar for solo trips. The ZS EV costs lesser for a family to travel than the Dominar for a single person. I'm ok with riding the Kratos for my daily commute rather than long rides now. And to be honest, me and my family made this switch only because we love the EV experience and it has nothing to do with going green.
Early adopter fam alert! I’m so happy that you found a way with EVs that works for you!
Hey Shreyas - I’d say the MG ZS EV is the game changer there as it has the potential of doing everything. Would love be posted on your experience with them as we go along! 😊
I get the point that EVs are the future and they have the most exhilarating torque delivery and that super fun acceleration. But do you guys not feel that electrification is commoditising cars and bikes? Without the ICE and the accompanying sound, are the vehicles being robbed of their character? Everything is so software driven that we miss that marvel of simple old school engineering. Without character, an electric scooter is just an appliance like a washing machine or microwave built to accomplish a specific task.
Pure ASMR....Just pure ASMR. Only thing missing is a big mug of chai and chill while one watches this banter.
Now we want a garam chai ka cup to go with this conversation too! And, thank you for sharing!
Next time the notification rings… make coffee before you hit play! 😁
Man.. The art direction is crazy!!! Love.
This can be Hagerty for India
Podcasting stuff is great for a playlist in your channel but please do bring out the exciting outdoor reviews as well where we can see the good old Kartikeya Singhee in full form (man, i already miss those reviews) 💪
P.S. You guys are the best, no two ways about it but I guess, Shumi needs to relax a bit for podcasting so that it sounds more like a discussion than a debate.
One need not be funny or sarcastic always 😉
Thanks Jaidev! More content and more types of content is planned... stay tuned! Shumi not being funny and/or sarcastic? Oh there's a tough challenge.. 😉
Most underrated channel of UA-cam ❤️❤️❤️,I love your content.
You're the best Jay!
Awesome 😎 Podcast
Thankyou for the insightful video Shumi and Karthikeyan..looking forward to d next 1..
Coming soon!
Man that Audio quality... 🥹😱🔥
Let’s challenge you a bit - ho did it feel? Like you were in the room with the MotorInc team? 😁
Woohoo! ❤
I use the word "Typeboxing" and now I learnt a new word "Keyboard racing" :D Nice
Typeboxing! What a great word. We invite you to be a member of our CoolWordExchangeClub!
I believe that it is not just about looking at the engine in isolation and looking at its efficiency. Look at the life of the engine and how cheap it is to maintain an ICE engine.
When I look at an EV, I am looking at
1. Motor Maintenance which does not look cheap going by what is posted by existing owners on the internet.
2. Battery cost, which is about 40% of the car's cost, if not more. I have an almost 10 year old car and only in the 9th year did I spend some considerable money changing the timing chain and fixing up the clutch. Otherwise, it has always been Engine Oil, Spark Plugs and Air Filter only. Which EV is going to be so cheap to maintain over a decade.
3. Heavier cars so faster wearing out of tyres. So I am running through more sets of tyres which are not manufactured in a carbon neutral cycle.
4. Charging infrastructure. Like you already mentioned is not clean unless I install Solar Panels on my home roof and only charge at home.
5. The car industry is moving towards making cars like an FMCG. Use for like 6 to 7 years and dump because the battery replacement cost will be crazy absurd for anyone who is not prepared for it. Hell people don't mind paying for a new phone but won't replace the phone battery and continue to use it.
6. SO MUCH ELECTRONICS and COMPUTERIZATION of the whole driving experience. What will I do with the torque when I am crawling at 20kph most of the time?
So in all of this, EVs just look like a lame excuse for the government and business to make more money and get customers to believe a holier narrative.
Great topic to start the podcast …… waiting eagerly for the next one
Glad to know this clicked for you! Stay tuned for the next one.
Thanks Sourov!
The bit about ppl on treks with blaring speakers is so true and what a menace it is.
It's nuts! Isn't the whole point of being outside with nature to listen to its sounds and silence?
💯 percent with you shumi👍
Thank you Akash! Much much appreciated!
Quality content 👏
Thank you very much!
This is gold!
Thank you 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🖖🏽
Just a suggestion.Publish this on amazon music et all. I would like to hear this while driving
It's done already!
www.bit.ly/amazon_tc
www.bit.ly/apple_tc
www.anchor.fm/thisconnect
www.bit.ly/spotify_tc
@@motorinc cool👍
Shumi has hit the nail on its head... keep these podcasts coming !! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks for listening! We see you across the videos in the comments... binging, yeah?
Great blend of knowledge, technicality and sarcasm. Loved it ✌️
Thank you very much!
17:43 guys the freedom point hits home. I’ve been an Ola owner for the past 2 years with enough craze to be the first delivery in Mumbai but now it’s not enough and am looking to get back to the ice side
One thing few realize is the massive upgrade of grid infra required to charge one EV per family, usually at night. As it is, we don't have the best grids in the world. If I could spend 100 kwh a day without the power company asking for a commercial license, I'd be mining bitcoin to buy petrol bikes rather than charge EVs
True! Switzerland just banned EVs for the winter saying they’re concerned charging might affect grid loads otherwise used for heating. If everyone in India suddenly went to EVs overnight, we’d break our grid for sure
There is only one discussion that should be had about EV's and that is from the perspective of the environment. Since they are touted as the solution to environmental concerns and sport that green number plate.
But a manufacturer like Volvo has admitted to a lot more CO2 emissions being produced as a result of making an EV as compared to an I.C.E. car. There are serious concerns about how electricity is produced to charge EV's.
The mining (including deep sea), manufacturing, disposal and/or recycling of batteries. All issues like performance, emotional feelings, range, flexibility are secondary.
First and foremost should be environmental. And probably also geopolitical as - from what I can tell, and people can correct me if I am wrong - the source of raw materials for making batteries is largely through China at the moment.
One of the big reasons for moving away from fossil fuels, aside from greenhouse emissions, was that it would lessen dependency on regimes like Saudi Arabia and Russia. Is shifting that dependency to China any better?
I see what appear to be alternative solutions to EV's that appear to come with a lot less environmental baggage.
Looking at the automotive media today, it just seems like they are going along with manufacturers' current craze for EV's because they don't have a choice.
I don't see those concerns being raised or the other alternatives being looked at closely enough.
Agreed! We believe we're in a transition, where ending fossil fuel use is more critical than any other thing. And to that end, a hiccup here and there as EVs settle in is to be expected, pending a drastically better solution
I was really missing shumi sir's humour and the knowledge he has and the best thing in the end kartikey singhegi sir's 200hp and shumi sir's ktm 😂 I'm so happy to again watching you both
When I said yes, I meant I would like to add an EV. Not replace 😂. Happy to have these conversations again.
Agreed, its a podcast. But since its viewed on the video format here on UA-cam, prioritising the visuals a wee bit would've helped. Felt the dimly lit room, the mic, mac, headphones and all the accompanying frills took up most of the frame, eventually lending it a generic nature. What sets this show apart from the other ones where two random dudes are talking, are the people involved here. So giving them more prominence would go a long way.
P.S - Always a sucker for the old format where two friends laid back on a sofa are rambling about motorcycles
Thanks for letting us know! Feedback noted!
All the best @MotorInc on the new journey
Thank you so much!
It can be longer and you could go deeper into these topics by talking some numbers to build these perspectives more clearly.
Very interesting and engaging conversation, covers a wide range of topics but doesn't get overbearing or boring.
Thank you! Glad you liked it and feedback noted!
Please start an audio podcast channel which can be accessible on multiple podcast apps. awesome conversation 👍
We’re able to handle Anchor/Spotify/Apple. We’ll add more platforms as we go along
Just search for ThisConnect on Spotify or Apple!
Guys what a brilliant conversation..
Thanks Jeremy!
The reason mahindra didn’t capitalise on the Reva Ev was because they were 5 years early with that product. It was too expensive and it was a half baked product. And now due to rising fuel cost and the pandemic Tata got the timing bang on.
Not disagreeing. But bring too early also is the opportunity to be on time a little later... which was squandered in our opinion
You should also have discussed the horror stories of mining in African countries for Lithium especially the Democratic Republic of Congo, where all these battery suppliers are violating human rights and destroying nature itself. Apart from that, since the battery recycling is unfortunately not the priority for the so called OEMs, people might start abandoning the batteries once they are obsolete. It can easily catch fire again and again since it's a chemical compound and it's so difficult to cease fire.
There’ll always be arguments to this but I really appreciate you guys for calling our current situation for it exactly is!
EVs : fun to drive, might save you some bucks given you do your math right.
Is it the future? Maybe. Is it anywhere near as sustainable as its projected, that’s a question we’ll only have answered over time.
Can’t wait for cheaper hybrids tbh. Would like to see smaller hybrids to make the populous question and then make a decision. For now it’s at the extremes between petrol/EVs. CNG was never a choice ofc.
Toyota if you’re paying attention: now is your time to shine! :)
Meanwhile, we shall enjoy the good old diesel engines while we still can!
Great conversations! Best watched at 1.25x.
This pobcast puts a smile on my face.😄
♥️
That motorinc logo on Shumi’s laptop is so dope ❤️
♥️
Again, Kartikeya and Shumi can talk for hours and im be sitting here listening happily.
Thank you for this. We will pass it on to them.
I Will Only Touch EV's 50 Years From Now When I'm 75...
I agree that EVs are fun too, I rode a couple of electric scooters and i am in favor of getting an electric scooter as a secondary vehicle but the fact an EV and an ICE is different and I fell in love with ICE vehicles is something that an EV can't blur out. Also the kind of fun involved with EV and ICE are different, both of them have different feels.
And Yes! I Just loved the unfiltered version of Shumi and Kartikeya Sir, Don't stop the jokes please!
Siddiqui sir! ❤
So nice to see the long form of automobile podcasts back! Looking forward to more of these.
Brilliantly crafted, excellent discussion, looking at all the relevant points. Loved it.
PS: waiting for Shumi to say “gupbas!”
Good to see you here Baba!
Thanks for the ASMR. Good points about the source of the energy. There’s a lot happening in the power sector with Renewable Purchase Obligations etc, but they’re just steps in the right direction. I suppose it makes sense to push EV market development in parallel. No sense in waiting for one or the other. In any case. Not now, but maybe down the line. India has a good chance with renewable energy. Lots of coastline, etc.
Also good point about recycling. I’ve tried to dig, but I don’t get real answers about what happens to end of life lithium. Second and third life answers are not really.
Sah! Thank you for your additional points! It’s a developing conversation for sure.
This is absolutely the best! Such a great conversation! This is what is needed in the automotive journalism industry right now! So so good! Wishing great success on this new endeavour to both the legends! Looking forward to more such amazing videos like this. Love it! 🤌🤌❤️👏
Thank you so much! Have you seen the latest episode also? We juuuust released it!
@@motorinc Yeppp!!! Just finished watching it! Always a pleasure watching @Shumi and @Kartikey on screen! Kudos!
having these two side by side is always so much fun!, I geniunely like the content and the sense that it brings with it. Full speed ahead MotorInc!!!!
Alright! Let’s do this! Any suggestions?
Shumi @24.50.. 'NO' we are tired to deal with crude oil people.. so, we switched to deal with lithium-ion people.. 🤣🤣✌️
😂 true no?
13:02 that look 😂
🤣
Guys grab some tea, snacks and do the podcast on beanbags! This gives the feel of a United Nations conference with jamtyse sering talking. That sort of high class thing drove me away from Autocar India as it seemed too fake. Shumi your powerdrift podcast is just an exact representation of how it should be done.
Hmmm. Okay let me think about this. Thanks for letting us know!
Just awesome
Thanks a ton! We'll pass your compliments on to the team!
Great one guys!!!!
I feel sad for the laptops in front of you! 😂😂 Getting as ignored as the rear seatbelts in a car!!😅
Haha! Good one!
Don’t feel sad. The laptops can take the abuse, as it were. 😂
Great podcast..... amazing topics discussed.....
Thank you Naveen!
I would love to visit the office in my EV ofcourse 🙂
❤
I wish to add a point to this discussion, I feel EVs nowadays are being marketed as Vehicles that can Do it all when it literally has a lot of limitations. I do believe, be it in the future, EVs are only suitable for urban errands. For long drives, Strong hybrids, and ICEs make a lot more sense. People can argue for proof that EVs can go the distance, and I would say Time is more valuable, at least for most people. Charging my car or a bike in between a 1000 Km journey is a nightmare to imagine + the added cost of staying just to wait till charging is done. And if you see environmental hazards, cobalt used in batteries is mined and the whole process of mining to battery production causes a lot of pollution than an average ICE engine in its whole lifetime. So, If it's the future I feel it's Hydrogen fuel cells or strong hybrids. EVs just aren't there yet.
Absolutely! There are many serious issues that remain without clear, positive answers for the moment. It's the challenge of being in a transition.
@@motorinc Yes indeed. There is a lot of confusion and chaos but hopefully things will get vivid. 😇
Thanks for responding guys! Full support!! 💯
❤️🖖🏽😊
good really good
Thanks!
Great topic to start the podcast series. The next one seems to be more interesting.
😆 wait for it! Shumar has his unique perspectives in store!
JB Straubel, former Tesla CTO already started an EV battery recycling company.... If I'm not mistaken, a large percentage of lithium is recovered during recycling
Technically, all of the lithium we have already used is recoverable and reusable. We just need to find the most efficient way to get it back and put it to use
Very important points to note.
Source of energy for charging EV has to be clean. EoL batteries recycling needs to be taken care. And charging speed has to be approximately similar to ICE fuel refill time.
While podcasts are insightful and entertaining in their own way, we do want to see you guys in action. On motorcycles, in cars, in drag races, on track days, on the highways, in the Himalayas. Don't let that slip away please.
Coal powered electricity is less than 50% now in India. So we are getting there. Anyways a great podcast, I being an EV enthusiast, started the video thinking, here we go again, EV bashing by petrol heads, but the conversation was very mature. IMO, EV powered scooters will replace ICE scooters but bikes will take some time. Bikes should have min 200 kms range and a fast charger network to be completely enjoyed without anxiety.
Plugin hybrid cars are best for now...
💙
What a hook for ep 2
🤣♥️
As always, Nice video with complete reality and actual facts in it ❤. And is the next one about the 🏍️ which is gonna do a wheelie during my everyday office commute with me sitting in the backseat safely😅 😂😂
Wow! Why back seat man! Even if it is doing it autonomously.. hehe
Finally both two r back ❤💙
What's the best thing about watching these two work together?
@@motorinc making us more aware and confident with their knowledge and experience in the world of two wheels💙
Great conversation! It was very insightful. However, one point that was missed is the high cost of manufacturing lithium-ion batteries, as well as their environmental impact. :)
Yup. Getting Li out of the ground is a can of worms too!
it is much less than fossil fuels.
Perfect is the enemy of good. There is no perfect solution.
Intro motion graphic is a blast
Rite on , rite on. I agree with the pollution EVs are going to create, I work in the SaaS industry and deep tech, I know the greater damage that this will cause in the long run, given the fact India is still coal powered.
We're working very hard to reduce our reliance on coal for sure. But our numbers will leave damage for sure.
Podcast is my favourite medium and I am so happy to see a brilliant podcast from two of the greatest minds in motoring. This is such a natural conversation that I feel like I am the third person slowly sipping my coffee on the other end of the table, nodding along to all the wisdom that is being discussed in that room. Great one team! 😇
Hahaha you painted quite a picture there! Glad to have you in the room.
@@SirKart looking forward to more coffee conversations 😇
You just coined a new term - Keyboard racing @schumi :)
Not his coinage. It's been around on various motorcycle forums (fora?) for a loooog time!
Great I found ep 1, only a few more to go!?😆😆😆
Oooh! You have a great trip ahead of you Ken! ❤️😊
Wow this true next level discussion:)
Thanks! Do check out other podcasts if you like!
i don’t think I would be owning EV car in the foreseeable future
Fair enough. Luckily, the car situation will become genuinely useful far quicker than two-wheelers