Our Honest thoughts on McLaren's performance in 2024
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- Опубліковано 11 жов 2024
- Matt and Tommy return to share their thoughts on McLaren's performance this year and whether they should have done a lot better so far...
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"Give Alonso 5 more points and he is a 5 time world champion" ok, that will haunt my dreams thank you
11 actually but anyway...
It's the same energy as 'Change 4 results and Liverpool have 5 more trophies'.
Ham 10 points more and he’s a 9 time
Damnnn 😢
@@justinsane8082 Actually according to the rules Lewis won 2021 since they were broken by the governing body themselves so Max would win.. So 6 points and Lewis would be a 10 time f1 world champion.. 4 against Nico, and 2 against Kimi
Short answer: Yes
Long answer: Yes they should
Even longer answer: Yes, they definitely totally, 100% absolutely should
Even longerer answer: yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
Even longererer answer:
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss, they definitely totally, 100% absolutely would
all the other teams with this car would lead in drivers, maybe not Ferrari
No
This “break” is essentially half way done. 4 weeks is WAY to long, it feels like so much momentum was lost.
There's another break of like 2or 3 weeks coming after the triple header.
We’re just 9 days away from FP1 in Austin. So just over a week left, we’re past halfway.
The break is so long that in the US they’re advertising Austin with clips of Danny Ricc lol
@@epicshelterstudio2986Disgusting
Instead of 4 week break triple header 4 week break triple header, they could have just had a race every other week. Dumbest scheduling I've ever seen
I am a Piastri fan, BUT Lando has bottled way more points since Miami than Piastri has taken from him. Missing out in Imola from driving into the gravel, lesser qualifying in Monaco, bad reads in Canada, Spain, and the rage quit in Austria.
The Hamilton/Bottas comment is not saying that Lando needs to be as good as Hamilton in order to get team orders, but that he needs to be maximizing his own points. It's so unfair to Piastri to say that he has disrupted and 'ruined' Lando's title fight when Lando has left nearly a couple dozen points behind that he should've taken.
noone with a brain is blaming Piastri, calm down. But yeah I agree Lando isnt driving as well as he should to win and be called a World Champion. I am not a Lando fanboy, but I wouldnt mind him winning the WDC, he just needs to get his shit together and win all remaining races.
@rollercoaster478 Haha, you're wrong, man. You have a brain, and that's why you don't realise how many brainless people with strong British bias are running around blaming Piastri and will pin it on him if Lando comes up short.
I don't think Imola or Canada were ever Lando's race to begin with
Imola, He would've been able to catch up to Max but never had the pace differential to pass him
Canada.People seem to forget that they were awful in the last dry stint(Piastri had no pace as well in that spell). It was almost as if they lost a large chunk of pace for some reason. Max would've overtaken even with the perfect read.
Spain and Austria are on him, and I'd add Spa to that list as well. Awful, awful race on his end, How he ended up behind Max with the starting positions as they were were terrible. Maybe Monaco, cause he should've been ahead of Piastri atleast although Ferrari thoroughly have their number
As for the other races, Hungary was just unfortunate, Lando had a confirmed car glitch ruining his start(people conveniently forget this part) and Piastri had the win fair and square.. Monza, Silverstone wre on McLaren. Baku was bad luck as well.
@066kshitizvsingh4 Fair points all. I'd say I agree on most, but it sounds like we both are of a similar opinion that Lando has let go of more points than the potential maximum 11 that Piastri took from him, (Austria sprint- 1, Hungary- 7, Monza- 3).
@066kshitizvsingh4 Fair points all. I'd say I agree on most, but it sounds like we both are of a similar opinion that Lando has let go of more points than the potential maximum 11 that Piastri took from him, (Austria sprint- 1, Hungary- 7, Monza- 3).
Another one that people forget, since we're talking about fine margines, is Lando's DNF in the Miami sprint. He could've raked in some extra points there.
And what if Max didn't DNF in Australia 😏🤔
@@MohamedLamkhizniand also 15 points in Belgium.
@@daarom3472yes maybe
And the safety car in Canada when Lando was leading by 10 seconds...
@@aliu67SC in Miami for lando first win 🤔😏
Max's "hidden" consistency is gonna be the difference maker as it was in 2021.
You mean Masi
@@luyolomnyani1639Still crying
@@ghostfacedkilla2849Both of you are right lol. Max was imo the better driver in 2021 but Hamilton by all means should've won if the rules were followed.
Regardless let's not turn the thread into a mess lmao
@@luyolomnyani1639 No, Lewis bottled it in Baku and nearly killing Max at Silverstone for another 26 point swing didn't even help him correct the inevitable. Masi may have been the universe making sure the injustice didn't materialize. An honest mistake that served the Light Side more than the Diddy Side.
@@ghostfacedkilla2849 "Still crying?" Bro you have nothing backing you up.. The fact that the governing body had to break their own rules, and MULTIPLE times to help Max since he couldn't beat Lewis DESPITE also breaking the rules of engagement 10 times in 2021 and getting away with it against Hamilton, this shows Lewis is the GOAT.. There was NO OTHER driver that the governing body themselves had to step in and fix the whole season.. And especially Lewis being black..
At least some of the reason Lando isn't leading the WDC is due to the fact that Verstappen is a racing Baba Yaga.
Exactly. It's not just McLaren screwing up. It's Max being extremely clinical.
Max winning imola and china will probably be the difference.
@@DingLiren-nw2vjalso Canada and Spain
Lando could've been on 12 race wins this year
@@stevenlannister184He is more cautious than before, but clinical is far fetched. Crash in Hungary which was avoidable, and a lucky break in a crash in Austria, where Norris lost more. Hardly signs of being clinical. At least two races he has just been driving far behind the top 2-3 to even think of being rash.
I’m not mad at Oscar or lando for Hungary. It was the team that messed up the strategy and made both drivers “look bad”.
How did it make Oscar look bad?
@@Slipstream_merchant it didn’t make Oscar look bad per say. What it did do was tarnish his first win. It looked really bad that the team gave lando the winning strategy when lando was never really under threat of being undercut by Lewis. McLaren could have pitted Oscar first and it never would have been an issue. But they messed up the strategy (something they have been doing all year) and asked lando to give up the win when it was the team that gave him the winning strategy. If lando won that race against max we would be talking about how great of a strategy call McLaren made. Instead we are talking about how landos a jerk for not following team orders. Lando had to basically stop on the front straightaway to let Oscar past because Oscar couldn’t catch up/ keep up with lando in the last stint. It was them manipulating lando to make lando feel like he did something wrong and that it was Landos responsibility to fix the teams mistake. Neither driver did anything wrong in that race. They races the race the team wanted them too. But only one of McLarens drivers was given a win by team orders this year, and it wasn’t lando.
@@Slipstream_merchant It made it look like Oscar could only win if Lando gave him the position. In truth Hungary should have been easily Oscar's win but by switching the drivers and the begging Lando to switch again it tainted that win no matter who won
Team orders on race day make all the fun go away
6 Grand Prix races and 3 sprint races left. If Redbull and Max can’t remedy their car troubles, the biggest obstacle for Lando winning the championship is Lando himself. Stop citing Oscar for any wrong doing or implications that his drives had on Lando’s championship hopes, he’s done nothing wrong. Lando himself has thrown away plenty of opportunities this year. If Oscar had a better start to the season, this whole team orders fiasco wouldn’t exist and it shouldn’t anyways!
Oscar needs to actually race Max for 2nd
✅
They aren't blaming Oscar. They specifically said Oscar is just doing what he's being allowed to do by the team, which is race for the win himself. It's just a fact that whenever Lando has won the race, Max has been P2 and Oscar hasn't been there to be in between Lando and Max and those are the times when Lando really needs Oscar to be there. That's not blaming Oscar, that's just stating a fact. Everyone understands and accepts the team and Lando have made mistakes, too.
The potential title fight really comes down to how good the new Red Bull upgrade is. If Max is consistently fighting for a spot on the podium between now and the end of the season Lando doesn't stand a chance.
Max has shown that he will maximize his position based on the car performance. If RB can be ahead of either Ferrari or Mercedes he can probably win it. If they get behind those teams, it's very difficult for Max to win the championship.
If the Redbul does what Max wants again even if it isn't the fastest on the track, its over for Lando's title chances.
I don’t disagree that McLaren have thrown away points due to questionable decision making but Lando should also be given his fair share of criticism in his part of the dropped points. I feel like people are being less critical of him
He is british driver what you expect lol
@@MohamedLamkhizni I wouldn’t say that because Russell gets a lot of stick and blame on him when he can be held responsible. Hamilton does too especially as a champion. Lando is just a lot of people’s favourite or see him differently that criticising him when he can be held responsible isn’t an option people choose
congrats on 500k subs, been following you guys since WTF1 days hope we get to 1m before the end of the year. I beleive it is possible, love your content.
A very good lesson for a lot of other british F1 media channels. If you are just honest with your audience and yourself, fans want to engage with your channel. One is a Leclerc fan and the other is a Verstappen fan, they don't deceive their audience about that. AND most of all, they don't demonize or put drivers down purely based upon having the wrong nationality...
I think crucially they're F1 fans more than fans for drivers.
Are we playing the " woulda, coulda, shoulda" game again?
Looks like it .... Another no news week and this pair clutch at straws every time.... Generally they are pretty decent but... Fantasy island Matt and his delusional CL bromance can be annoying... It's not as if they are influencers if such a thing exists
Time for that sweet YT paycheck
should George have give poistions to Lewis so he could challenge more ?
should Carlos have surrendered to Charles to allow him to challenge ?
Drivers are not there to help their teammate win. Imagine if that was how F1 actually worked - it would be fatally damaged.
This is not cricket, its F1. Bloody-minded determination to win is at its core, that's why we love it.
No, only if Charles or Lewis were in the same position as Lando. In fact I think Ferrari may do just that if necessary even more with Carlos on his way out.
Keyword “teammate”. Team orders have always been a part of formula one especially in title fights look at perez helping in 2021 for example
Aside from the fact that trying to get one of your driver’s a championship, the constructors is a thing and a thing McLaren haven’t won in quite some time. Team orders can be important to ensure that points are maximized, so yeah there’s no reason why McLaren shouldn’t have done team orders earlier
Funny thing is in 2022 they never wanted Carlos to move over for Charles so why they want Oscar to move now it's bias
Brits always want British drivers to be coddled like little babies to win
This whole conversation is absolutely ridiculous. Even now McLaren have stated that Oscar will help Lando but not at the cost of his own results. And why should he? Oscar drives for himself and McLaren. Lando is the one who has cost himself points this year. Just get over that simple fact and stop trying to put the blame on the team and the obligation on Oscar.
Thank you for mentioning Austria! Max came straight in pitted and out and came 5th. 10 points. Lando jumped out of the car and done. Credit to Lndo he has now said he should have kept going. Just experience but THAT was a key moment on Verstappen mindset v Lando.
Yeah why dont the grid just pull aside and let Lando win :/ so unfair
THIS
Oscar was on his way to win the Miami gp until the safety car basically switching Lando and Oscar. I think that would have annoyed slightly Oscar..
I think McLaren are worried that if it focuses on Lando, then a possibility Oscar goes elsewhere when his contract is up, I think Any team would take him if he was interested,
They have bortoletto in their reign as well, btw don't think oscar will leave mcl end of 2025, new regulations may change his mind
So did either of you consider that with constant team orders for Piastri to let Norris through going back a long way toward go first part of the season, that it might mean Oscar looks for another seat? If that happened and McLaren ended up with a rookie, they wouldn't have a driver finishing ahead of lando to even have to ask to let him by.
Moral of the story... If lando didn't botch the start at Hungary, the situation doesn't arise. If he doesn't get owned at Monza, the situation doesn't arise. It's going to bf hilarious when the shoe is on the other foot and Oscar is winning more to see if the Brits still have this same opinion....
Don't forget Lando's missed pitstop at the Canadian GP when the safety car came out.
I just saw P1 last night at their Toronto live show. Great show guys!! Hope to see you both again in Toronto next time!!
Where are they?? I’m in New York! My hotel is 50 ft from the Gramercy Theatre. I won’t be late.😂
It's surprising media is supporting a racer who need support for over half a season to win a championship.
Perez helped Max in Abu Dhabi. Lando needs help from 6th race of the season 😂
Cry harder
Valtteri is james
If Lando loses by a small margin he (and we) will have no one but himself to blame. He has consistently bottled starts, failed to make strat calls that other drivers did, and lost in wheel-to-wheel fights when he has had the fastest car the majority of the time. He must be the most infantilized driver on the grid by media, it’s kind of nuts.
All facts! Those starts were absolutely horrible.
It’s hard being a McLaren fan 😭
Im also a McLaren fan, I actually can't decide which year has been more difficult to support them, this one or 2015. These days at least they are back at the top fighting for championships, so this one for me is better, but stressful af.
@@markxol1386So basically suffering with no hope or having hope and being slam dunked by themselves…. Repeatedly?
I have to admit I struggle with coulda/woulda discussions, especially if the season is still underway. Max has 7 wins so far McL in total have 5.. that alone is a big reason Max is still ahead. You boys clearly need the season to restart.....
Max leads the championship mostly on the shoulders of those wins but the speculation is valid since he stopped winning
@@soundscape26and by the way Max was leading Lando by 52 points before Miami and since Miami i meant since Mclaren become the best car with thoes Miami the gap is still 52 after singapore and Red bull is so bad struggling ever since even it not even top two car at the moment in race pace LOL 🙎♂️
Jeddah - Norris qualified sixth and finished 8th. Loss of points. China Sprint - blew the start, lost points. Miami sprint - got wiped out, not his fault, lost points. Imola - went in the gravel while chasing Max. Spain - blew the start. Austria sprint - left the door open for Oscar. Austria race - collected enough track limit violations to get a 5sec penalty, divebombed wildly, and then drove his car back to the pits too quickly and ragequit. Silverstone - made the wrong tyre choice, but Oscar was the one really screwed over. Hungary - blew his start. Spa - blew his start. Monza - made a mistake at both first and second chicanes. Baku - would have lost the quali lap anyway, he was over track limits. That's so many fuckups and missed points that letting Oscar through in Hungary and Oscar's overtake in Monza is right at the fucking BOTTOM of the list of reasons Norris will lose.
Totallly agree with everything. Only thing I will say is Baku lap time would have counted, I thought the exact same that he exceeded track limits, but I was shown proof otherwise
Lando just is not consistent enough and Oscar is too close when he is not even in front of Lando... Lando is great for the memes but he is no Max or Lewis or Seb
Or Oscar? 😬
"never underestimate McLaren's ability to shoot themselves in the foot" - Grace from the Parc Fermé podcast, ca. 2007
In my opinion I feel like Norris would be against piastri giving him wins anyway, he admitted himself he hasn’t been good enough.
Mclaren hasn’t been the fastest car they just been the most consistently competitive at the front, nothing like the redbull of last year.
Street tracks Ferrari was fastest merc too at some tracks, i think people just want a championship fight as they are bored of max domination but for myself i don’t want a manufactured fake championship fight.
At least it means 2025 should be a great year
I mean he'd literally be known as a champion who got gifted the championship by his teammate.
@@ChiIIi...Are you a Verstappen supporter?
@@ChrisMcLaren666Not really why?
@@ChiIIi... I'm curious to know if you think Verstappen "got gifted the championship by his teammate" since he couldn't have won it without Perez blocking Hamilton on purpose in the middle part of the 2021 abu dhabi race
@@ChrisMcLaren666 Not really no but I have no problems with teammates defending or even switching positions. But you can see what happend in Hungary with Oscar. Let's say that happend the other way around and Lando won it because Oscar listened to team orders, that wouldn't sit well or feel deserved for many fans since Oscar did drive better and Lando wouldn't have been in the lead without that pitstop. And let's say that would happen again in the future if those were the wins that got him the championship and he wouldn't be able to do it without them people will think it was gifted to him.
The "McLaren are throwing away points" is ridiculous. McLaren have a "two number one drivers" culture and good on them, one reason I'm a lifetime fan. If you treat F1 like cycling, it's rubbish, a whole load of guys working their tails off for no personal gain. I don't think team orders is wrong when the season is down to a very few number of races. The title of your video was misleading - looks like you want Lando to be declared number one, not an evaluation of how well McLaren are doing this year. Lando knows what he needs to do and it's in his hands and he has a teammate who isn't going to play dirty.
They so easily talk about where McLaren should have swapped the cars but nothing was mentioned about the faults lando made like Belgium and of course the starts
I was suffering p1 withdrawal so this is much appreciated
a lot of people forget about silverstone where lando overshot his pitbox. he lost the lead due to that.
Yes McLaren should be leading both championships. And while the team has made mistakes. The reason they’re not leading the drivers is mainly because of Norris.
There’s so many instances where Lando himself failed to get the job done (win/maximise the car).
Losing the lead at Spain to Russell, not being more careful/taking his time with Max at Austria, losing the lead at Hungary to Piastri, going off track at T1 in Belgium, losing position to both Oscar and Charles at Monza, and bottling his Q1 lap by going off track at Baku.
And that’s not even counting when he bottled the strategy at Silverstone. As, if I’m not wrong, he was incredibly indecisive about what tyres to use at the end.
Spain and Hungary is always a difficult track to start on pole. It’s not a driver mistake. The McLaren shouldn’t have even been on pole in Spain.
Austria is fully Max’s fault. Norris left plenty of space . This is like blaming Max for Silverstone 2021 because he should’ve been more careful even though Lewis just took him out.
He didn’t go off track in Baku. And the yellow flags was the only reason he got knocked out in Q1.
And Max has made plenty of mistakes as well like Miami, Austria and Hungary and was completely outperformed in Baku where Perez was challenging for the win.
Funny how half of those are Piastri crazy divebombs, causing Lando to lose places or crash with his teammate...
@juuiko Dude like 1 of them is
If you disregard Austria (racing incident) and Baku (obvious FIA fault), you've got Piastri going for huge divebombs on his teammate in Hungary and Monza. Which leaves Spa and Silverstone as Norris blunders. So it's exactly half of the point losses that McLaren had control over
Yeah, Norris is totally to blame for the stewards waving a yellow flag at Baku. 😂🤡
Theres always the kmag variable. Just two "misjudged" divebombs or some hard defensing could swing the championship in any direction. Kmag can really spice this championship up and I truly wish for something very interesting to happen.
I mean it was the Kmag variable that handed Norris his first win. Poor Logan.
It feels like forever since our last race, at least we got you guys! Cheers!
Great breakdown of the situation at McLaren! You guys are truly one of the best because obviously you both have your favorites but it doesn’t stop you from viewing it objectively as well. Not many others do the same, most just follow the hype train without actually understanding or explaining the nuance of the sport. Don’t get me wrong I don’t know it all, but it is clear to me at least that your channel is a genuine place. ❤️
At the end of the video, you said this situation may be worse next year, and I believe you are missing the point. It's the media that thinks McLaren's situation is a problem - I don't think McLaren thinks it is a problem at all. McLaren has two racing drivers and it is letting them race - end of story! The Drivers World Championship is (or should be) the DRIVERS world championship ... that is, the champion DRIVER should win it. And if (for example) Lando only wins the title because Oscar gives him wins, is Lando really the champion driver at all? I'd say he is not. The media - you guys included - seemingly want to dilute the DRIVERS World Championship and twist it into a shadow / variation of the Constructors World Championship. Personally, I think the media ought to be congratulating McLaren for having a RACING CULTURE and letting its drivers race (albeit instructing them to race clean) and giving us spectators a fabulous spectacle!
Missed you guys last night in Toronto. Hope you had a great time and also hope you come back!
I think McLaren has decided to go with a long-term solution. That's not so good for Lando but if he has it with in himself, and a bit of luck, he will overcome it and win.
Don’t forget about Oscar either. McLaren has also cost him a load of points:
Bahrain: 2 pts - Should have finished 7th instead of 8th but McLaren allowed themselves to be undercut.
Miami: 18 pts - (not actually McLaren faults but still lots of points lost) I don’t think Oscar would have won if there was not a safety car because the McLaren won that race when it was in clean air and Oscar was still behind Max, additionally he did not have the upgrades.
Imola: 6 pts - Oscar got a grid penalty for blocking that was 100% McLaren’s fault when Oscar qualified 2nd. Had he started there around this track he should have finished there.
Britain: 13 pts - I know some might disagree but I am fully convinced Oscar would have won that race had he been pitted with or a lap earlier than Norris. He stopped at the right time on the second stop when Norris went 1 lap too long and he made the right her choice.
Belgium: 7 pts - Oscar was 5 seconds clear of Russell when he was pitted for a second time when he didn’t need to pit again. He could have stayed out and won that race.
Italy: 7 pts - Same as Belgium except with Leclerc.
Total: 53 points lost due to McLaren strategies and the Safety Car in Miami.
Couple of Notes:
- I’m not taking into account points Piastri has lost through his own driving (e.g. China lock up) to lose place to Russell because Oscar has been pretty good at maximising stuff from his side
- I haven’t calculated how many less points other drivers would have had should these theoretical results have happened.
- This is all hypothetical and theoretical opinions. It’s just a thought exercise.
I have always followed F1 from a distance, but in the last 6 years have followed much closer. I was always turned off by 'team orders', especially when mercedes was dominating and Valtteri was cast to the wayside. the fact that they existed in F1 made me gravitate towards Indycar and Nascar, where drivers were always asked to give the maximum. It is a breath of fresh air that McLaren have allowed Oscar to race as hard as he wants, championship or not. I'm a racing fan, not a 'move over and let your teammate through' fan. Make the drivers earn their wins & points, even if it means beating their own teammates. The championship should be earned, not handed out (p.s., Hungary was super cringe, right? we dont need more of that in our sport)
So busy talking about how Oscar ( through McLaren calls) cost Lando points and zero mention of all the points And even wins that McLaren cost Oscar?
Yeah, fucking Silverstone especially.
the two that stand out the most to me is definitely austria and hungary because they both seem so childish in hindsight. austria did 100% seem like a rage-quit and he should’ve carried on, and if he’d let oscar through earlier in hungary he’d actually have the chance to just overtake him on track again. it was incredibly clumsy from the whole team, but he didn’t handle it well either i think.
❄️
It really irritates me that we have supposed F1 fans demanding team orders.
What a joke.
Got a point there, but is the underlaying theme of this whole video
I think for 2025, other teams will have ample time to study McLaren’s upgrade package they brought to Miami that immediately catapulted them into race winning contention. 2025 is gonna be super competitive. Whether it’s just the front flexi wing or that in combo with the other upgrades from Miami that led to so much performance, I think teams will have a good idea where to find that performance since we can point to exactly when McLaren got better
I think the scariest thing about McLaren though, is that they're exceeding their own expectations.
According to Brown and Stella's roadmap, they aimed to fight for race wins this season, but 2025 is when they expected to fight for the title. Next year's car will be fully designed by the new team (including Rob Marshall), and with the new wind tunnel fully operational. If this year's car is so good, who knows how good their car will be next season.
Ferrari and Mercedes have already looked at the changes McLaren brought to Miami. Ferrari was off the pace and a few races after Miami they brought an upgrade and were suddenly fighting at the front. One or two races later Mercedes did the same. They were nowhere and suddenly they were at the front. RB has pointed to the flexible wings, but no changes to the rules.
With the different type of car that RB has this season, they probably can't use the same flexible wings concept to get the same gains....
The idea that lando lost 8 pts at Hungary is nonsense. There was no world where McLaren intentionally swap Norris ahead. If they knew Lando wouldn't swap they wouldn't have undercut him.
As a Lando fan, the only way he gets 8 more points in Hungary is swapping back immediately and then having the rest of the race to overtake Piastri on the track
They already regret it. You saw Zach Brown's face when Nico Rosberg questioning him after Monza.
100%
And who can blame them, how many chances do you get at the ACTUAL World Drivers Championship
Trust me, they wish they had those 10 points right about now. Hungary was arrogance
Austria sums up Lando Norris's shortcomings. Rage quitting and throwing your toys out of the pram isn't behaviour that wins a championship. Oscar Piastri is a more mature person behaviourally. I feel McLaren may have been supporting Piastri more since Austria to try to modify Norris's behaviour.
I’m of the opinion that no, McLaren needed to go through the growing pains to realize they’re a top team. It wasn’t until a few races ago when their team started to even consider if they should make a push for the drivers championship. It’s such a frame of mind change for their whole organization that there was no way except theoretically that they could’ve maneuvered themselves to execute the right decisions when they didn’t know what their target was.
Years ago when Red Bull weren’t championship contenders but in formula A, they’d make decisions that overall hurt their team or driver performance but was done for their own reasons. Take Monza 2018 for example. 3rd place Max collides with 4th place Bottas while trying to defend his position at the end of the race, and Max gets a 5 second penalty. Vettel is pretty much exactly 5 seconds behind in 5th, but rather than let Bottas through to not lose time to Vettel, Max keeps losing time defending against Bottas essentially throwing away 4th place to get into 5th. He even says it on the radio saying he’s losing time to Vettel but says he doesn’t care (he just physically doesn’t want to let Bottas through).
A team and driver will maximize their performance for what their goal/target is, and for the current season McLaren had to restructure what their goals are.
I just appreciate this season for what it is, and not get stuck on what could or should have been .
As an aquarist who works with the fish at a zoo, I love listening to the pod on lunch break!! The stingrays love hearing P1 :)
It’s going to get quite spicy if this comes down to Abu Dhabi, can’t wait! See you in Austin!
Since the summer break they do seem to have got their act together though. Three wins in the last four races
People also forget it wasn’t just lando in Hungary is was max too if he didn’t make an error would have been 3rd instead of 5th so that’s 5 points lost also
Max was VERY lucky not to DNF in Austria and Hungary, two incidents directly caused by him
What I think everyone keeps missing from the conversation is that ... if McLaren try to "get their drivers in order" and require Oscar to give points to Lando if opportunities present themselves ... what does that do to the team culture? Culture is super important, and I think MORE important than winning the Drivers World Championship. McLaren has a "racer" culture and once you sacrifice your culture, you don't earn that back for a decade or more.
I can already imagine Max's wholesome laughter when he wins this in the overall 3rd or 4th best car of the year, and McLaren/Lando super obviously bottled it. And then RBR have a better car next year, and a nice advantage for 2026 with their 3rd or so WCC score in 2024, getting more R&D hours.
That was a nice idea but the comments were a bit vague.
It would increase the retention if you used graphic elements like tables, showing the points gained in each race and then presenting the final results.
You guys do a great job, I just suggest you to improve it.
This upcoming fp1 session might be the most important fp1 of the year. Redbull is bringing some of the big upgrades that will define their season. If they don’t work it’s going to be a tough road for them. They only have one practice session to dial them in for both the sprint and gp as well.
I worry Lando is the next Dani Ric. Gets upset when the new team mate has the team built towards them and then jumps to a series of lower tier teams
OMFG I JUST CLICKED ON THE VIDEO AND ME AND MATTY WERE IN PERFECT SYNC WITH THE "YES NEXT QUESTION" 😎😄😎😄
Monza was a disasterclass but oscar absolutely deserved Hungary, he was the better driver in Hungary and Lando should be grateful that they pitted him first to protect him from Hamilton
He kind of didn't though did he? out qualified and Norris had the race pace. Norris only gave the position back because he would never hear the end of it. It's just Mclaren tripping up over themselves.
Norris looked quicker in Hungary
Grateful for what? Horrendous team order?
@@josemanoel6208no he wasn’t
As a spectator, I love it when two no.1 drivers find themselves on the same team. I will thoroughly enjoy watching NOR - PIA and LEC - HAM next year!
The problem is there are a lot of people refusing to see the FACT that McLaren at this point after 18 races had the better car on average like.... easily. So Lando SHOULD 100% be leading by now
If my grandmother had wheels, she would have been a bike. These are all ‘ifs’. You guys seriously need the season to restart. For me being a McLaren fan, we should be leading both championships for sure and some are on team and some are on lando. Simple. Austria was not a rage quit, the car was damaged to the point it can’t run anymore
Friendly reminder that a world drivers championship doesn't net the team any money, but the constructors title does. When McLaren's all-round pace started to emerge, the team probably figured it was better to have two motivated drivers hauling in big points every weekend, rather than risk upsetting the dynamic. Besides, after the brilliant on-track action this season, even in the absence of a close title fight, are y'all really suggesting that team orders at McLaren would make things more interesting?
Qualifying Baku qualification was on Lando for failing to put in a good banker lap. Oscar made the same mistake but got lucky
For all the talk about "Could Lando be leading Max...", I genuinely think there is an alternate history where Oscar is ahead of Lando in the DWC.
In each of the three races where Oscar finished P2 (Monza, Spa, Austria), if things had gone just very slightly in Oscar's favour, he would have won, with no extra points for Lando (+21pt swing).
You could argue at least two or more races where Oscar could have very easily finished higher if not for bad fortune (I'm thinking Miami, Silverstone at least... there are for sure more that I'm forgetting). This really starts to add up across the season.
Of course this is all Ifs, Buts, and Max's Mothers, but I think it goes slightly forgotten just how close he has been, and how much bad luck he has had with weather, safety cars, poor pit-stops/strategies, and ridiculous track limit violations, etc.
Full disclosure: obvious Aussie/Piastri fan 🙋♂
Yes. They really really should be.
McLaren should still win the Constructors Championship, but there have been missed opportunities for sure this season
McLaren should make an agreement with both drivers that whoever is ahead at the summer break has the support of their teammate and the whole team for the second half. That leaves them free to race in the first half, but also means that whoever's ahead at the break has a much better shot at the driver's title, and means the position of #1 driver is totally on merit and resets every year.
Two words for Lando that everyone seems to forget: China Sprint
I’m very impressed by Oscar and how fast he got to Landos level. It’s absolutely amazing how talented he is.
The big thing McLaren has done is themselves didn’t think they could win. Press conference after press conference the only thing they talked about was the constructors. I don’t think it changes a ton but you have a bit more confidence in yourself if your team backs you when there’s 15 races left compared to 9
Lando should be 50% liable for not leading now, counting mistakes like Austria sprint, bad qualy in Baku, bad start in Spain, late response to Max in Imola, .... but the biggest factor is because Max is racing and very good at it when needed
Imola had me worried already I remember the Lewis x Seb days. Obviously the points gap was never as big but points leads can evaporate fast and there's never a guarantee your upgrades work.
Lando’s DNF was the biggest hit. If that hadn’t happened McLaren would have backed him sooner.
If Lando wins the championship it will be the most undeserved championship that I have witnessed. So many thrown points should not be rewarded with a championship
No, it's not the case that every team has always prioritised one driver over the other as soon as one has a decent lead. And I'm not just talking about Hamilton/Rosberg and Senna/Prost situations where drivers from all other teams had no chance. Red Bull 2010 comes to mind. Seb didn't ever lead the championship that year until after the final race. Considering that Oscar's manager was the one who didn't get prioritized by the team for as long as Seb had a mathematical chance of winning the title I don't think he will encourage Oscar to support Land if he still has a reasonable chance.
The real question is if Lando doesnt win the WDC,should Zac Brown get fired? With 6 races left,I feel like they still have the advantage,but the missed opportunities earlier in the season are completely inexcusable.
This iteration of McLaren hasn’t challenged for championships until this year. To me this is a learning year for them. Now if they keep making mistakes next year I’ll be upset.
Look at Oscar’s manager and look at the 2010 gp, and who won it and how. Mark is 100% right to make sure Oscar doesn’t get pushed aside. Problem is, Oscar still isn’t that package yet. In Subgapore he wasn’t on Lando’s level and this is the case too often.
Tommy, a see your 5 extra points and Alonso is a 5 times champion and I raise you if you give Alain Prost 6.5 more points, he’s a 7 time world champion (2 in 83, 0.5 in 84 and 4 in 1988) and give him another 8 points on top of that for 1990 and it’s 8x WDC for Prost.
Add in Saudi where Lando finished behind Bearman due to mad strategy and then in Japan where another mad strategy lost him points to Le Clerc and he would be even closer to Max
stop with Hungary. Lando lost so many points in almost every race since Miami. Oscar won the race cause he deserved it.
That intro shows McLaren are meant to win the championship 😅
Thankyou for bringing up Austria, but it wasnt a 10 point swing, it was a 17 point swing if Norris made the move on max successfully for the win.
This is single handedly the reason why I cant take Norris seriously for this championship. He didnt have what it took then to overtake Max, and it has put this championship out of reach.
F1 spelled backwards is IF
Why everyone act like Max has been flawless all season and Lando is the only one making mistakes?
Miami: Damaged floor going over the bollard potentially costing him win.
Monaco: Hit the wall last qualy run. Had pace for top 3 evidenced by Q1-Q2.
Austria: Locking up at outlap allowing Lando to get into DRS range. Crash was his fault but luckily benefitted more from it.
Hungary: Messy all race should've been 3rd.
Italy: Bad Q3 was only tenth off Lando until mistake at last corner.
Baku: Destroyed his tyres trying to pass Lando. Eventually lost out to Russell and Norris.
Both drivers had their fair share of mistakes though you can argue Lando and Mclaren's were more costly.
Basically what is happening, Lando isn't performed well enough in a car that should be performing the best on the grid and Mclaren has been too afraid or disinterested in the past to prioritise Lando and switch positions (possibly caused by a contract clause in Oscar's contract). So basically the only things good enough are the car, the engineers, the pit crew and his teammate.
If after Miami (or a bit later) cars got frosen from development and Max swapped cars with Lando, Max would have won basiccally every race after. Lando won...one?
Why post this video already ? This season is not over yet and anything can still happen? There's still another twist in this season yet. One retiremnt for Max and his title defence will be in the balance.On the specific question of whether they should be leading both championship at this moment I think it's debatable . It's too easy to say McLaren should definitely be ahead Don't forget Max and Red Bull dominated 3 of the first four races and McLaren at the start of the season. Certainly Lando should be a lot closer and he has made mistakes but but he has also been let down by team operation and strategic blunders and the odd piece of bad luck iin Baku qualifying . I think the team have to learn to find a way to operate to take the pressure off both drivers . For me Mclaren have at time operated like a midfeld team with a front running car.
It would be simply lovely if Max loses the WDC because of Lewis defending in p2. Karma? It would be beautiful
I don't dispute that McLaren messed up with team orders. But this whole "oh the points McLaren got if Lando was always ahead of Oscar" thing is ridiculous. By this measure McLaren should never have signed Jenson Button because Heiki Kovalainen was the optimal teammate to Lewis at the time. And they should replace Oscar with Checo at the end of the season.
Max running Lando off the road and still finishing wherever it was again I think will be the most telling moment of the year if max wins. I'm amazed they don't take that into account and deduct points
Nah, McLaren didn’t bottle Hungary for letting Piastri keep his win. Norris didn’t earn it, he just got lucky with the strategy.
Norris was asked not to attack Piastri the entire race. Piastri doesn’t deserve it just because he got ahead in turn 1. The race is 60+ laps long and Piastri bottled the last stint.
In Australia Norris didn’t beg for Piastri to slow down 7s and let him past. He caught up on newer tyres after Piastri had a 5 lap undercut.
If it’s a team game they should have swapped. If it’s every man for themselves then Piastri should have covered off the undercut to stay ahead.
I don't think the earning aspect will serve of much consolation to them if Lando loses the championship by less than 7 points.
Why did Piastri deserve it when he went off the track and allowed Norris to get in undercut range to begin with?
@@lukew6725 Yes, Oscar ran wide in the Hungarian GP, a fact that is often ignored. Had it been Lando and he wouldn't have been spared. Much more was made of his Singapore near misses that didn't cost him anything.
McLaren's biggest issue is that their leading driver is called Lando Norris. His abismal qualifying in Baku and his delta to his teammate are inexcusable, his lap 1 antics, if he wins, if he wins he should be compared to Jacques Villeneuve.
or Damon Hill
Baku was on McLaren for leaving him as the last car on a track with yellow flag hazards in Q1
Remember, "IF" is just formula one spelled backwards.
"Keep pushing with the penguins" wait what?
Another if is in Austria when Redbull pit crew doing slow pit stop and make Max & Lando so close together. Maybe they both got many points
Not nuanced enough in my opinion. There are also good arguments against massive team orders, but as both of you take the same side of the argument, you only hold half of the discussion. The Race had a good podcast on this as well. In my opinion, except for swapping P2 and P3 in Monza and not swapping back immediately in Hungary to give Lando a shot at the win, it's all well.