The Influential Kiss - Eddie Kramer Signal Chain
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- Опубліковано 17 бер 2024
- In this video I'm investigating how Eddie Kramer and Kiss in 1975 created the classic extreme, bright and gainy lead tone that later inspired Eddie Van Halen and Slash to create their signature sounds. I'm discussing which role guitars, pickups, amps, speakers, mics, compressor, EQ and all other factors may likely have contributed. I'm futhermore making expirements to investigate if the guitars were recorded through a 4x12 or a 1x12, whether they used Greenbacks or Blackbacks, what role pedals (EHX LPB-1) played and what desk EQ that was applied.
Aloha Johan! Good work at setting up and getting the sound. I seen Kiss in concert in 1977. Great show! I did like the group that came on before Kiss. Some unknown( at least to me) group from Australia. They had some little guy with a SG on a roadies back going through the rows.
Aloha Victor! That’s a killer opening act indeed 😂
We we at the same show? I saw them open for Aerosmith as well.
Ace clearly used a BM or some kind of pedal to get his trademark lead sustain but Johan nailed the rythem tone especially on Mr Speed riff. Great content as usual.
Remember I told you I have a picture of a receipt from a pawn shop for a fuzz pedal, bought in September of 1975. He might have been out and looking for sound to ad. Great attempts Johan🎉
I'm no Kiss expert but the amount of effort and experimentation you put into this is just mind-blowing, Johan! 👏 There's tone for ages in this video. The 4x12, booster and desk EQ seem to be the decisive factors here IMO, not sure about the greenbacks vs blackbacks. But who am I to judge, you're the hard rock professor 😉 Cheers and rock on🤘
Thanks Alan! Really glad to hear that! Cheers!
Fantastic analysis Johan🙏 EQ matching is amazing
Thanks Eddie! Glad to hear it!
Mr. Speed! Great riffs and awesome sound 🤘
Thanks! Glad you like it! 🤘
Hi, Johan!
Glad to see you, like allways! You made a great work! See you!
S.
Thanks my friend, Cheers!
Great video and great tone. Thank you.
Aloha and cheers from Hawaii Darrell
Aloha Darrell!
I've already learned from watching all your videos, if Maestro Johan dials in a tone, you can trust it's as close as us mere mortals will ever get to matching the source tone. It all sounded great. God bless and rock on 😎🎸👍
Great job Johan. The 4x12 Greenbacks sound closest to Alive than anything else, also probably on a majority or Rock N Roll Over, sounds like other amps and guitars come into play mixed into tracks on that album and also the use of some pedals like LPB1, Big Muff and some kind of phaser. I listen to RnR Over and Love Gun often. Best era for KISS from the first album until Alive II. You put in a lot of good work and we all appreciate it! I read an article on Wordpress callled "Deconstructing Double Platinum" there are a few parts to it and they discuss how some of the recording for the original tracks that were used on that album. I tried to share the link but can't here. Keep up the great work and take care!
Thanks Mark! Yeah this one: axeologyextended.wordpress.com/2021/04/02/deconstructing-double-platinum-pt-ii/
Great article and very helpful. Cheers!
Sherlock Segeborn? 😁
This was almost like watching a scientist explaining. Very good.
You sounded like them in my ears.
Thanx for the video Johan 👍
Det var gött ljud på den guran o riggarna, speciellt 4x12'an med greenbacks.
Thanks! Glad you like the tone!
Great job, and funny how well that eq match did.
Side note, saw Kramer on a live Q/A some years ago and someone asked "how alive was kiss alive" and he kind of laughed and said only the crowd. Also "you have to remember, they are out there jumping around and doing a performance and really nothing is keepable" (more or less). For the crowd sound, they had 4 30' tape loops running around mic stands going to 4 faders on the board, and he'd bring those up as needed during the mixing of the songs. Makes sense to me anyway.
Thanks Adam! Yeah I saw that one too. But it seems the studio touch ups had more to do with tightness than tone/sound
@@JohanSegeborn I think they just rerecorded it. Think about it, they end the tour, they go into the studio for a day and just play the live show. It's only 72 minutes runtime. They could do multiple takes if they had to, maybe fix some stuff on day 2, it would be way easier for everyone, and it's not like they had a video to go with it. I think that's true of a lot of that stuff to be honest. Like it would be a lot more expensive and problematic to haul around a 24 track tape machine and the tape keeps running out mid song, that type of thing. I don't think there's anything wrong with it either and it probably happened far more often than we know, maybe even most of the time.
I miss the kiss train being born in 76. I think I might of had a kiss pacifier now that I think about. 😂. Those guys had their name on everything. Loved the video thanks for anything les paul and Marshall. I love the tone history. I think of Johan as my tone history teacher now that I think about it. This is definitely one of my all time favorite channels. Love you dude 🫵🏻👁️👁️
Very nice upload king.🎸🌹❤❤🙏👍
Cheers!
I think if anything can be universalized from this video, it's that a guitar sound has to work with everything else in the mix, more often than not meaning the guitars will be petty bright and biting.
One of the biggest mistakes that's easy to make is trying to make everything else fit around a guitar sound, when it should be the other way around. Great work Johan!
Johan out here doing the LORD'S work. Amazing. Thank you.
Thank you Johan for letting us in on the tone secrets of the past! I agree with your conclusions and must say as a Marshall and Les Paul guy after a wile of plugging the guitar straight in I started wanting more than the amp could give and started pushing the amp with spiky fuzz pedals boosts overdrives and so on. I think it’s cool that you mention Van Halen, GnR and the different way they achieved this. The development of the super lead with the treble cap and other changes goes in this direction to I think, but still many prefer the older amps… My guess is that you can’t get “ that sound in your head “ with the one amp mod, pedal etc You need the small steps culminating, as you mentioned with pedals. The eq was a big step, even so I think it needed the small steps leading up. I think I learned something more general through this, that’s cool! By the way I recently switched over to a strat, that’s even more extreme than the eq changes, all the treble I ever need.
Thanks, really good to hear that!
I hate and love UA-cam. Why am I only seeing this now ? I been subbed forever. Maybe I just missed the video. I wish they had an extra important list. Johan would definitely be on mine.
definitely you are the guy that best understand and came close to the Alive's Plexi guitar sound
Thanks, glad to hear that!
You always get amazing tones❤
Thanks my friend!
This is great. Thanks so much. The sound of Ace's guitar sounds very mid focused to me. I've always liked that sound but sometimes it can be too much mids and not sound good. It's a fine line. Thanks for this Johan. Many people don't understand how much Kiss affected/ influenced some of a certain age. I think this first Alive album stands alongside other classic hard rock albums(frampton/ Humble Pie, Zep S.R.T.S./. ) They could have played without the make up stark naked and these would still be good songs. If you like 70's hard rock you will like R.e.o. speedwagons live set called you get what you play for. Good songs and Gary Ritchrath is on fire. On these old setups you can really hear the sound of the pick. I didn't know what that was but I loved that sound and others that we would consider bad these days. Thanks again Johan, great work!
Underbart! Tack! ❤❤❤
Tackar, härligt att höra!
Great in-depth analysis of an icon Marshall tone! I think your initial attempt was really, really close and I think a lot of it may be due to your playing style knowing your affinity for Ace's playing and tone. In your later attempts, the LPB-1 definitely added an upper midrange attack. The Greenback speakers were a lot closer sounding than the Blackback speakers as was the 4x12 over the 1x12 cab. The influence of the Super Distortion pickup can't be overlooked. The "preferred setting" with all the controls being set at "5" is sort of arbitrary as I'm sure you know ALL vintage Marshall amps are different and almost always have to be set differently to get a similar tone. Cheers!
Thanks Mark! Yeah tone stacks differ and some amps don’t have a bright cap and the list goes on.. and there is component drift on top of that. Cheers!
I see from your videos that you really like Kiss!. I saw them in Houston in late 1977. The opening act was Styx. Both bands were at the top of their games at that time.
Cool! Would have loved to have been there!
That's the Ace tone! Nice!
Glad to hear it, Cheers!
Like yourself, I grew up on Alive I at cobo. Sitting in my bedroom headphones on analyzing everything note and tone...that sound is fused in my brain. I feel like it was greenies up to and around the Alive I era but it morphed into Blacks around the Destroyer/Love Gun era. That's what my ears tell me. But with enuf EQ, anything can be deceiving.
Yeah, It’s really hard to tell since the recordings seems to be so heavily treated with post EQ.
Really nice job, Johan. I read an article from Ace once stating that he ran all his tone knobs on 5 and treble on 10 along with the LPB1. I wonder if that makes a noticeable difference. Maybe it helped to separate his guitar from Paul's or added some extra cut? Maybe something to experiment in the future.
Cheers
Thanks! That mainly affects 4-5 kHz and it actually even above that needs to be added
Treble, think you meant to write presence, hence the DP100.
Whooeee those black backs 🔥
I've been thinking about this lately in how it relates to the Gene produced VH demo. It seems unlikely they would have flown out to NY with their own equipment and just ended up using Kiss gear at Electric Lady. How it compares to the Landee/Templeman Sunset stuff a year later is interesting.
Yeah that collaboration is really interesting
Tone seemed closer (to me) w guitar on 10 and no lpb. (Probably not in your hands..but in my Bose headphones). I was wondering what the rest of the test would’ve sounded like without the lpb and with the guitar on 10. Food for thought. Thanks for your great work
Might be the pickup position, but think that can be compensated for by using a 1mill volume pot.
Johan. I was thinking about you all weekend...A vid popped up on youtube in the past several days of a guy who owns one of Aces 74 super leads..AND more importantly one of his old cabs. The cab had blackback 25s and 30s, and the guy installed a greyback (I'm guessing to replace on of aces original speakers that blew). I can't remember the guys name.. search for Ace 74 amp or something.
Thanks! Yeah I saw at similar video by Bill Baker who used to work with Ace. Over time the greenbacks were probably blown and replaced with black backs until Bill gave the cab by Ace. Cheers
@JohanSegeborn that's the one. I figured you might have seen it by now! I'll watch your vid tonight, had to cut my lunch break short right after I started 😞
Johan i picked up a couple of vintage LPB-1s off Reverb after seeing your Ace video. They definitely sound like they played a part if his tone during the classic Kiss era. The newer version doesn't sound the same.
Glad to hear that!
The never version add the oomph though, add a TS behind it and use it’s toneknob to get them mids back while still having the oomph.
Although, for some reason I found that a triple germanium transistor based tonebender followed by a TS sounds closer to the old studio albums, need to have a noisegate in though, since it doesn’t sound the same without silence between stackato riffs, bet that the engineer used some sort of gate too.
its the pre rola greenback they used it has this the nice smooth top end but i personally like the g12h 30 watt 75hz more because of the extra cut in the top end. the black backs have too much upper mids and sound very nassle. please can you try this tone with the mojotone bv25m
Yes !!
Cheers!
regardless of what they used it sounds better with the blackbacks 4x12
Thanks Mauro
WHy did you choose to a LDC instead of a DM as stated in the video? Why that choice? Also in that time, how would they use a greenback in a 1x12 without blowing it up? Were they using attenuators or someother load in those days to lower the wattage to a single speaker?
The LPC is the only early 70s Les Paul I have actually. If they would have used 1x12 it would have been driven by some of the fender amps mentioned in the video
I tried putting a greenback into a musicmaster bass amp and hated it!
Couldn’t get that cts blue label speaker back in there fast enough.
Yeah I don’t that’s the way to go either
Love your work but you began by playing Paul Stanley parts. Also Aces tech has stated he often used a EH big muff in the 70's. Never the less, keep up the great content.
Thanks! Yeah the first riff I played actually was from Rocknroll over. Both are Paul Stanley riffs. The EQ difference and dynamics difference between Paul and Ace is another really interesting issue that should be addressed in a video. Same thing with Slash and Izzy. If Paul’s or Izzy’s parts were to be removed it would sound too much like other metal bands, they add a huge amount of depth
Both green & black have THE sound, I call a blend of BOTH!
And Deuce is pronounced as 'dyuce'!
Thanks man! 😀🤘 That’s the down under pronunciation right 😉
@@JohanSegeborn English in general.
Seems a little heavy handed for Eddie Kramer using that much EQ based on interviews I 've read from him about his recording ethos.
Wonder if there could be another explanation if they re-tracked everything in the studio?
treble booster? telecaster? tweed amp? or combination of any of those
The isolation track of Deuce / Ace is (credibly claimed to be) from a live gig in Wildwood, so it’s one guitar. The EQ doesn’t sound as heavy handed there since Eddie used great analog EQs and had the benefit of tape, whereas I used the DAW EQ here. You can check it out here: ua-cam.com/video/jSxdCwLz9pQ/v-deo.html
How dbs of top boost and what frequency is the EQ match
I wanna rock and roll!
Cheers Shawn! 🤘
Not sure if this is true but I heard a rumor that Kiss used Fender Champs cranked up.
On the dressed to kill album that could have been the case
🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝
Cheers!
A Les Paul into a Marshall Plexi w/ 4x12 Greenbacks and you’re already 90% there, imo.
Definitely!
how can I get in contact with you?
Hi! You can reach me at johan.segeborn@gmail.com
Sounds like a peavey classic 50
That’s a 4x10 right? So classic 30 is probably closer
@@JohanSegeborn my tech says the 50 really isn’t 50 watts so who knows. But I’m my opinion this sounds like the peavey USA 4x10 I play daily thanks for all you do
tape would've been a factor
Yeah definetly