Faethore you know, hats off to Ranger Tony for compiling such an informative and comprehensive video. That said, thanks to you Faethore for being the additional hero and posting the stats for quick reference. You could have written it down and kept it for yourself, but you decided to share your work. Many thanks!
You were thinking of brutal beating when talking about debilitating injury. Debilitating Injury does NOT take any damage away. If it does then it’s a bug cause it does not take away SA dice in the pen and paper
Bad advice about debilitating injury...you lose no SA damage and it makes it at least 4 points easier to to hit...or adds to you ac...or slow them...hitting is important for sneak attacks lol
Love the build, been playing with it but i'm gonna reroll with another race. Halfling running speed is too bad. Even if i put her at the top of the formation she's always the last one to fights i.e. she's missing on a lot of potential damage.
I would take improved critical in this build. With 2 rouges with imp. crit, you have a much higher chance to get the extra attacks in via the sieze the moment feat. It will double both rogues chances to get extra attacks of opportunity. And i see that as a much better in this build, then the imp blind fight. You wont get it for the raw damage, but mainly because of the opportunity for extra attacks.
you don't have enough roles in the party; even a single rogue is too much, if I consider I would exclude Nok-Nok simply because I needed more roles; Ekun was often the DD of choice, however there are few cases where the two weapon rogue shines against specific bosses; another reason why the level 10 talents are especially valuable (which weaken or dispel) (but he skipped them)
wouldn't a 3 level dip into inquisitor for the "solo tactics" ability be worth if for a stabby knifemaster that wants to get all these teamwork feats? Could do a 1 level dip for base monk as well and go plumkith asimar which gets the +2dex/wis and invisibility spell once a day...which would be insane for a stabber to position themselves perfectly for multiple sneak attacks or for a sweet gtfo button. The extra feat from monk you can use for 2 weapon fighting, plus adding wisdom to ac, plus flurry, and sai counts for knifemaster as well as being monk weapon so you get 3 attacks at level 1 with sneak attack dmg, honestly, i would take vivisection level 2 for the mutagen and the extra sneak attack die. because of the weapon finesse you can get....i would just dump str and cha into the ground, and start off with a +5dex and +4 wis, so you get to start off with 19ac(20 with tartuchio's ring) with 3 attacks I would 1 level dip for viv and get accomplished sneak attacker as well, to make up for the sneak attack dice lost from 3inq/1monk. after that you can go into duelist but, i would honestly keep doing down knifemaster and get all those juicy feats/abilities with the extra sneak attack die so you can just get all the teamwork feats and be a 1 man wolfpack. =P
As I have said in other comments I really do not do multi-class builds unless there is a problem with the original class or there is a prestige class I am aiming for. My question would be what are you aiming to get from this build? Is there a deficit in the monk class that you are trying to fix?
@@rangertony I see no issue with the monk class. I was curious to know if a similar build like rogue, monk, shadowdancer in NWN is possible in Pathfinder Kingmaker. It's been many moons since I've played it. I thought it would be interesting to see your build with the knife master, monk, and perhaps a class similar to a shadowdancer. But I see your point in creating a straight lvl 20 class. Knife master is great.
at level 10 crippling strike is vastly more powerful than continuing the line of sneak attack stuff; you get lots of attacks and lowering the opponent's strength weakens them and can even outright kill
So, I'm currently playing a Knife Master, and I am looking at the Debilitating injury skill. I cannot see anywhere that it removes any of your damage, its a straight bonus from what I can see? There is no part of the text that says it removes a dice, but if you use the negative AC one, on bosses, they are much easier for you to hit once you get one sneak attack in. Please correct me if I am misreading the ability
You may be correct. I think I was thinking of another rogue ability that removes one die of sneak attack for an affect, but I cannot remember which ability it is.
@@rangertony You're thinking of the Thug Ability, "Brutal Beating". It removes 1 die of sneak attack damage to sicken the target for a number of rounds etc etc.
@@rangertony You're thinking of the Thug Ability, "Brutal Beating". It removes 1 die of sneak attack damage to sicken the target for a number of rounds etc etc.
@@rangertony Thank you for the quick reply. Also I have wondered but have you considered making a full walktrough for people to watch you play the game?
Very , very good. But a Rogue without using SNEAK ATTACK is useless - i suppose. I come from PILLARS OF ETERNITY 2 - boring , but very , very stable and free of Bugs. But only a Shadow from Pathfinder- the world from Pathfinder is MUCH bigger than Deadfire. I think I play a Barbarian with Shield and Longsword. Best Regards
It’s one thing to throw out all utility on the altar of more damage. That’s fine, it’s a way to play (boring to me, but to each their own). If you ARE doing that, though, you really ought to figure out the math. Is that extra combat feat worth giving up the ability to stop an enemy from ever getting attacks of opportunity? Or to reduce the enemy strength to near zero? Or get free attacks every time someone else hits them, how much damage are you losing there? Just saying, the rogue talents are really good, especially the advanced ones, and some even do your dull ‘just more hits’ thing ;) (Also debilitating injury makes you and everyone else hit more often (or get missed more often, or both w/ confounding blades). That’s more of your sneak attacks hitting)
OK yes you are correct. There is no reason to not use those abilities. I was initially confused because there are some abilities that take away 1 die of sneak attack damage to apply those affects. If the ability sich as Debilitating Injury does not reduce the damage then it is definitely worthwhile.
Actually there are a few reasons you might want to take Rogue over Vivisectionist 1. You like playing Rogues 2. You want more skill points, Rogues get 4+ skill points per level, Vivisectionists only get 2+ skill points per level 3. As a Rogue your primary attribute is just Dex, as a Vivisectionist you want to spread between Dex and Int sure Vivisectionists have some interesting abilities provided by their Alchemist leanings, but I think it is a matter of personal preference as to which is "better". Me I prefer a straight Rogue :)
Vivisectionists don't get Level 10 Advanced talents like, Opportunist, Double Debilitation, or Improved Evasion. Everyone likes to think that Vivisectionists are amazing. But Rogues are the most amazing, its a fact. Its written somewhere... I swear!
Vivisectionists don't get Level 10 Advanced talents like, Opportunist, Double Debilitation, or Improved Evasion. Everyone likes to think that Vivisectionists are amazing. But Rogues are the most amazing, its a fact. Its written somewhere... I swear!
@@drchaos2000 naw power gamer strait rogue build done right is stonger at plenty of things vs a vivi. Vivi gives some cool abilities but its more about utility then raw min max power
After watching the video about 5 times I decided to put this together and share it with everyone. Love your video's Mr. RangerTony. ;)
Knife Master:
Race: Halfling
STR 10, DEX 18, CON 16, INT 13, WIS 10, CHA 12
Skills: Mobility, Trickery, Stealth, Perception, Persuasion, Use Magic Device
1 - Two Weapon Fighting,
2 - Weapon Focus (Dagger)
3 - Combat Expertise, Finesse training (Dagger)
4 - (+1 DEX), Combat Trick - Precise Strike
5 - Trip
6 - Combat Trick - Fury’s Fall
7 - Outflank
8 - (+1 DEX), Combat Trick - Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
9 - Tandem Trip
10 - Combat Trick - Combat Reflexes
11 - Agile Maneuvers, Finesse Training - (Punching Dagger)
12 - (+1 DEX), Combat Trick - Greater Trip
13 - Coordinated Maneuvers
14 - Combat Trick - Seize the Moment
15 - Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
16 - (+1 DEX), Combat Trick - Dodge
17 - Combat Mobility
18 - Blind Fight
19 - Improved Blind Fight, Finesse Training (Sai)
20 - (+1 INT), Combat Tricks - Greater Blind Fight
Faethore you know, hats off to Ranger Tony for compiling such an informative and comprehensive video. That said, thanks to you Faethore for being the additional hero and posting the stats for quick reference. You could have written it down and kept it for yourself, but you decided to share your work. Many thanks!
About piranha strike: the 50% bonus is only for the off hand, the main hand strikes at 100%.
Yesss. Yessssss more rogue builds. The rogues shall overcome the weaker classes
Glad you liked it :)
You were thinking of brutal beating when talking about debilitating injury. Debilitating Injury does NOT take any damage away. If it does then it’s a bug cause it does not take away SA dice in the pen and paper
Question on debilitating ability, any reason it does not tell you it's removing a d8 from sneak attack? Is that just bad tool tips?
Bad advice about debilitating injury...you lose no SA damage and it makes it at least 4 points easier to to hit...or adds to you ac...or slow them...hitting is important for sneak attacks lol
Love the build, been playing with it but i'm gonna reroll with another race. Halfling running speed is too bad. Even if i put her at the top of the formation she's always the last one to fights i.e. she's missing on a lot of potential damage.
I would take improved critical in this build. With 2 rouges with imp. crit, you have a much higher chance to get the extra attacks in via the sieze the moment feat. It will double both rogues chances to get extra attacks of opportunity. And i see that as a much better in this build, then the imp blind fight. You wont get it for the raw damage, but mainly because of the opportunity for extra attacks.
Thanks for the feedback
you don't have enough roles in the party; even a single rogue is too much, if I consider I would exclude Nok-Nok simply because I needed more roles; Ekun was often the DD of choice, however there are few cases where the two weapon rogue shines against specific bosses; another reason why the level 10 talents are especially valuable (which weaken or dispel) (but he skipped them)
wouldn't a 3 level dip into inquisitor for the "solo tactics" ability be worth if for a stabby knifemaster that wants to get all these teamwork feats? Could do a 1 level dip for base monk as well and go plumkith asimar which gets the +2dex/wis and invisibility spell once a day...which would be insane for a stabber to position themselves perfectly for multiple sneak attacks or for a sweet gtfo button.
The extra feat from monk you can use for 2 weapon fighting, plus adding wisdom to ac, plus flurry, and sai counts for knifemaster as well as being monk weapon so you get 3 attacks at level 1 with sneak attack dmg, honestly, i would take vivisection level 2 for the mutagen and the extra sneak attack die.
because of the weapon finesse you can get....i would just dump str and cha into the ground, and start off with a +5dex and +4 wis, so you get to start off with 19ac(20 with tartuchio's ring) with 3 attacks I would 1 level dip for viv and get accomplished sneak attacker as well, to make up for the sneak attack dice lost from 3inq/1monk.
after that you can go into duelist but, i would honestly keep doing down knifemaster and get all those juicy feats/abilities with the extra sneak attack die so you can just get all the teamwork feats and be a 1 man wolfpack. =P
Tony I enjoyed watching the video. I'm a big fan of the knife master. Any chance you could make a dual class build with monk/knife master?
As I have said in other comments I really do not do multi-class builds unless there is a problem with the original class or there is a prestige class I am aiming for.
My question would be what are you aiming to get from this build? Is there a deficit in the monk class that you are trying to fix?
@@rangertony I see no issue with the monk class. I was curious to know if a similar build like rogue, monk, shadowdancer in NWN is possible in Pathfinder Kingmaker. It's been many moons since I've played it. I thought it would be interesting to see your build with the knife master, monk, and perhaps a class similar to a shadowdancer.
But I see your point in creating a straight lvl 20 class. Knife master is great.
at level 10 crippling strike is vastly more powerful than continuing the line of sneak attack stuff; you get lots of attacks and lowering the opponent's strength weakens them and can even outright kill
So, I'm currently playing a Knife Master, and I am looking at the Debilitating injury skill. I cannot see anywhere that it removes any of your damage, its a straight bonus from what I can see? There is no part of the text that says it removes a dice, but if you use the negative AC one, on bosses, they are much easier for you to hit once you get one sneak attack in.
Please correct me if I am misreading the ability
You may be correct. I think I was thinking of another rogue ability that removes one die of sneak attack for an affect, but I cannot remember which ability it is.
@@rangertony You're thinking of the Thug Ability, "Brutal Beating". It removes 1 die of sneak attack damage to sicken the target for a number of rounds etc etc.
@@rangertony You're thinking of the Thug Ability, "Brutal Beating". It removes 1 die of sneak attack damage to sicken the target for a number of rounds etc etc.
Do you suggest picking specialization of Duelist/Aldori Swordmaster with rogue? regardless of the subclass rogues have
Personally I don't multi class, but if you are asking the question then I say go for it. Give it at try.
@@rangertony Thank you for the quick reply. Also I have wondered but have you considered making a full walktrough for people to watch you play the game?
How exactly are you using trip ability? Is it always on? 1 rogue always on?
No you need to select it for use each time
@@rangertony Aight thanks, So you use it, it TRIPS successfuly, then u just keep auto(sneak attacks) right?
Very , very good.
But a Rogue without using SNEAK ATTACK is useless - i suppose.
I come from PILLARS OF ETERNITY 2 - boring , but very , very stable and free of Bugs.
But only a Shadow from Pathfinder- the world from Pathfinder is MUCH bigger than Deadfire.
I think I play a Barbarian with Shield and Longsword.
Best Regards
It’s one thing to throw out all utility on the altar of more damage.
That’s fine, it’s a way to play (boring to me, but to each their own).
If you ARE doing that, though, you really ought to figure out the math. Is that extra combat feat worth giving up the ability to stop an enemy from ever getting attacks of opportunity? Or to reduce the enemy strength to near zero? Or get free attacks every time someone else hits them, how much damage are you losing there?
Just saying, the rogue talents are really good, especially the advanced ones, and some even do your dull ‘just more hits’ thing ;)
(Also debilitating injury makes you and everyone else hit more often (or get missed more often, or both w/ confounding blades). That’s more of your sneak attacks hitting)
OK yes you are correct. There is no reason to not use those abilities. I was initially confused because there are some abilities that take away 1 die of sneak attack damage to apply those affects. If the ability sich as Debilitating Injury does not reduce the damage then it is definitely worthwhile.
there is no reason after level 4 to take rogue over vivisectionist...
Actually there are a few reasons you might want to take Rogue over Vivisectionist
1. You like playing Rogues
2. You want more skill points, Rogues get 4+ skill points per level, Vivisectionists only get 2+ skill points per level
3. As a Rogue your primary attribute is just Dex, as a Vivisectionist you want to spread between Dex and Int
sure Vivisectionists have some interesting abilities provided by their Alchemist leanings, but I think it is a matter of personal preference as to which is "better".
Me I prefer a straight Rogue :)
@@rangertony yeah roleplaying is always an option of course. but from a powerlevel min/max point of view its not even the same league
Vivisectionists don't get Level 10 Advanced talents like, Opportunist, Double Debilitation, or Improved Evasion.
Everyone likes to think that Vivisectionists are amazing. But Rogues are the most amazing, its a fact. Its written somewhere... I swear!
Vivisectionists don't get Level 10 Advanced talents like, Opportunist, Double Debilitation, or Improved Evasion.
Everyone likes to think that Vivisectionists are amazing. But Rogues are the most amazing, its a fact. Its written somewhere... I swear!
@@drchaos2000 naw power gamer strait rogue build done right is stonger at plenty of things vs a vivi. Vivi gives some cool abilities but its more about utility then raw min max power