Totally agree that the info was leaked in advance and insider trading clearly happens. The volume sold prior to the announcement can only be backed by advance knowledge, period. This is why Wotc is having a BIG trust issue and all these negative (and justified) reactions.
Most of the other fast mana has a drawback, usually in the form of another card OR a requirement that needs other pieces on board to activate. The only top of mind exception would be ancient tomb. As to the mana vualt, that is hardly a direct or as impactful replacement to mana crypt as it typically only ever gets used once, unless you build around abusing it.
Don't worry, they will ban them next year. I myself will never buy another expensive card until they make an official cedh banlist. I don't need RC Aholes telling me what kind of fun I am supposed to have. I rule zero and can communicate with people to play the game how the table wants. Its so easy, anyone can do it.
The rule committee's response to speculation of insider trading felt sketch. Might be worth doing an investigation into sales the last couple of months.
Mmmm, yeah that would be out of “necessity” at this point until peeps figure out command = play proxies. For every other format else, unless you play limited, buy singles. If you happen to be one of the types who suddenly switches hats to “I’m a collector or I’m an investor” - it’s time for you to bail out as the commander ship is burning to the ground in terms of long term value, sure there will be occasional spikes here and there but it is in overall decline, wizards cannot compete with proxies. Enjoy your fine luxury cardboard rectangles.
@@realjoshuat5551 I'm not an investor, just a player so from my point of view: it's like supporting EA at this point. Wizards is not some indie developer that needs support. They will not get a dime directly from me unless they course correct this sinking ship. I still buy singles up to 5 EUR but anything else is played with proxy. Power creep, numerous sets a year, insufficient reprints for staples to drop their price. This all leads to price increase due to insufficient number of cards on the market, especially when they are printed as mythic rare. We need Commander Masters, Modern Masters and Pioneer Masters, not another Modern Horizon to shake the format. It's not a surprise that other formats are dying out outside Arena when decks are so expensive. 15 EUR for 1 fetchland? 30 EUR for Cavern of Souls? 60 EUR for Sheoldred? They focused on selling products to investors but forgot that they need other people to play their physical games outside commander where proxies are common nowadays.
I only own 1 Mana vault, I bought it on ebay back in 2018/19 - listed as a 5th edition @ £7 - turned out to be UNLIMITED!!!!!! Appreciate the Wall of wood in the shorts BTW, I was on holiday in Tuscany and got 5 ICE that were not available for shipping to the UK shipped to a friend there, so I now have 60! ......and finally, a wee vid on the scarcity/price of old commander decks would be nice
Sure, Mana Vault is the next best thing to have, at least for one turn. Then you need some cost reduction or "untap" mechanism to (ab)use it frequently for lots of mana.
Absolutely. watch them magically have special varients coming in near future sets (only to ban it too a year from now--nothing is safe and they made that clear with this nonesense
@@derrickpaulson3093dude, this card is basically just a dark ritual, a worse dark ritual that costs you mana later to even use it again. Basically going to use it like a dark ritual, pay one cast it, tap it, use the mana and then you're probably not going to untap this thing again unless you hit with a turn in which you can't do anything and you have open mana and even then you might want to keep it open to bluff.
@Xoulrath_ this is the "casuals" mindset. cEDH players aren't looking to use Mana Vault fairly over the next 10 turns. It's about powering something out when you need it, hopefully to win or to stop an opponent from winning.
I might still decide otherwise within the next couple of days but I am glad I'll be able to recover at least *some* of the cash lost by selling my Double Masters borderless mana vault. Kinda sad since that's been the most valuable pull I've gotten so far (Worst still that I bought a single Double Masters booster and got lucky) but I think I will be better off just selling my vault, purchasing a proxy of it and getting to enjoy having 150-200 bucks for stuff other than magic.
Mana vault has been around for a long time and until recently was a good card, but loss favor over the years. It was of course a good usable card back when revised was out. However, the cost was high to use.
This will be interesting to watch over the next few weeks. Really wondering if Sylvan Paradise and Sea Kings Blessing drop back to their former price now that Nadu is banned. (I doubt it, but we will see).
So happy my only Mana Crypt is the fairly rare original book promo, which seems to withstand the onslaught well. As for the J-Lo I pulled from Commander Legends, well, who am I to cry over spilt milk? And I did pick up a few Mana Vaults about a decade ago, when they were $2-3, so I guess I'm the one guy who can't complain about the cardboard massacre. If I was as smart as I'm lucky, you're right: I should unload those MV to desperate rampers while they are still in shock. Oh, my playset of Ancient Tombs bought for a fiver or so way back, probably just because I liked the art and already had common foils in my shopping cart. those are also likely to be a popular go-to for the mana hungry cmmander players who don't already have enough.
My question is why are people jumping so hard on mana vault? Wouldn’t basalt monolith be a better option since it only costs 3 to untap and it’s only $2-3?
Hmmm, its almost like the ban did nothing but aggravate people who will still choose to play the same way (fast mana). I thought this was supposed to make everyone play slow games (eyeroll).
@@derrickpaulson3093It will. Someone in another video pointed out the obvious fact that this ban isn't for cedh players, not for people who have dedicated playgroups, It's for people who go up to their lgs and sit down with a bunch of randoms who may not agree to take out their Mana crypt because you say you don't want to play against it. It's for those people. When you sit down with random people to play a game, the expectation is that their deck is legal. Door cards on the band list before these and I've never sat down a random game and asked my opponent. Are they playing those other banned cards? Because it's always an expectation that your deck is legal. Just in case you didn't understand why I was pointing out those groups. A group of cedh players are going to rule zero those cards back in. A dedicated playgroup will rule zero, whatever they want to be in or not. Randalls don't always agree with you. So when you're playing with random people, the vandalist is the expectation for the game before you ever sit down. Like I said, I've played with multiple randoms all the time and I've never had to ask them about what they are or are not using. The rule zero conversation has ever only gotten to power level and proxies.
No it's not, only these channels keep perpetuating this idea that it is. CEdh has pretty much just accepted it and moved on. Infact it seems most people got over it in about a day or 2 and went on with their lives because magic is not their life.
Everyone knew the replacement card for Mana Crypt would be Mana Vault. It's the natural next step down from Mana Crypt. Of the two card stores in my area I know both have had multiple Mana Vaults in their inventories for quite a while. I personally have 9 Mana Vaults, and I am just one guy. Why do I have 9 Mana Vaults. Well, I have a lot of Commander decks and I saw the price on them dropping considerably after the Covid money went out of MtG. Mana Vault is a great card, but it needs other cards to really break it. Mana Crypt was broken out of the box. Now that the cost of Mana Crypt has dropped so much I will probably go and buy one (the Ixalan version or maybe the Double Masters) just to have one, because the art is pretty cool on them.
I have a revised and master mana vault and will use them (do already) but I will also like most in my area who play cedh including stores tell the RC to jump off a cliff and ignore this ban.
I have a 4th Edition Mana Vault in my deck that I was taking to a casual EDH lunchtime game yesterday. Saw the price spike - thought, hmm, maybe I should have this deck double sleeved now.
I already thought the RC was a joke, but at this point, the format is literally splitting. It feels like 90%+ of the high power and CEDH community is Vetoing their decision. I will also stand by the fact that banning Jeweled lotus was an outright mistake. They took a card that was worth between $100 and $600 and banned it in the only format it could be played in. This was definitely a financially driven decision, and there is no recovering from it. Either they unban it (after insiders buy up hundreds of copies cheap), or they don't and everyone who has one gets f*****.
thats how the secondary market regulates itself. all this "ohh the lgs `s loosing millions" now they have mana vaults worth 400% more... its just shifting. i would keep an eye on underworld breach, it is maybe the best red CEDH card now
@@hrdrsu763 But that’s assuming someone was a goblin like I was and was collecting vintage mana vaults, there can only be so many as lucky, but EVERYONE who had the cards banned (outside of Nadu) lost hundreds.
@@KevinCostner471 Vintage cards shrug off bannings rather quickly my brown mana crypt only dropped 33% from its peak. Shit they literally reprinted duals and power for 30th and now my time walk is at all time high.
Pepperidge Farm will always remember these cards specifically created for Commander were banned from usage in a casual format and it will never forget the Economic Team. Boomstick💥😎
Glad you pointed out the leak. I'm sure you saw, but lotus and crypt were moving before the ban. The leaks are normally from wotc staff, you always see little volume blips before bans. This one though, is wild... honestly the whole "crazy" idea the RC threw out of putting their collections in escrow in all honesty would be a good way to rebuild and secure trust.
I hadn't heard about the banning yet when I picked up a Revised Mana Vault for pretty cheap, call it intuition? Sold it the same day for twice my paid price. Today I might have made more of it even, but who knows what tomorrow will bring?
too bad most players don't actually know how to use mana vault, or how many untappers or tutors for them you need in your deck to make vault even worth using. willing to bet vault price plummets in 30 days because no one can actually use it properly.
It’s not exactly rocket science I think they’ll be alright. Anybody gunning for more bans should take note that there is always a next best thing and if you were miserable before the ban you’re going to be miserable after.
@@Davedave3303The next best thing isn't the best thing. That's why it's called the next best thing. Mana vault is nowhere near as good as mana crypt. Mana vault is essentially a glorified dark ritual.
I think the mana vault is mostly a surge price and i do expect it to level out again because of the fact it doesn't untap without the mana investment. Or some help which essentially makes it a temporary mana crypt with even more downside than actual mana crypt.
@@uv_khamaileon sounds like a rule 0 conversation. Which I think is most people's points. It didn't need to be banned if people were able to communicate about what kind of game or rules for their game they want to impose. No sol rings? Ez. No sol ring until turn 3. Also ez No fast mana? Again... EZ
I'm not quitting but I will say, I'm not buying sealed product till I see WoTC start taking steps in the right direction. I will proxy, and I will put my money into better hobbies. I'm not the only one either. Also it doesn't have anything to do with the money to me. It has everything to do with WoTC seeming to blatantly disrespect their player base.
You have 4 mana vaults?! Who gave you inside knowledge!? >:( My collection went up in value by like $2000. I was moving from budget player to start getting a few expensive cards, but did not cross the $100+/card line yet. So instead of the banned cards, I went to the replacements to save money. Now that this happened, I too am looking to sell these cards like [Mana Vault] at a high price. I prefer to buy whole decks with that money over being "high power" in one or two, and they are likely to be on the watchlist for possible future bans anyway. My LGS has like 12-15 of those, and they came from the Double Masters(?) and Ixalan Special Guest reprints. People who pulled a [Mana Crypt] replaced their [Mana Vault] and sold it either to the shop or the "not yet paying that much" players like me. I don't think that is such an unreasonable stance.
Mana Vault is NOT your replacement. Its generic Mana. It works ONCE and you have to include a method to untap(paying 4 is NOT the way, upkeep btw). I'm expecting after its done rising to crash HARD because it is NOT Lotus or Crypt. That reminder you needed colored mana. Or rush it out to one extra card rather than further ramp, tempo or gameplan(effectively) and forget it doesn't untap for free. Please do watch closely and remember to not replace out of desperation but necessity. The secondary market is quite volatile and I'm curious if other cards are dropping or rising to compete for either replacement slots or to compliment vault/mox. Also LED, I wonder....
To be fair, my first thought when the ban hit was to try to trade in my Crypt for a Vault. But as it sits I'll probably be replacing it with a Basalt Manalith.
Those bannings are a GREAT example why I try not to get my hands on those cards and play without em, its made me try to get more clever with my decks since I play casually and never competitively. I feel for all my friends that had 1-3 copies of any of those cards, I only have one Jeweled Lotus from a commander Master's box I cracked. The loss was minimal for me but for others its worse.
How they ban the chase card from commander masters lmao.. I don't play in commander tournaments only casual. Nut shot to cedh which isnt my cup of tea format. I have one dockside and it's in the precon it came in. I'm not adjusting the decks that run these cards. Edh existed long before commander was ever a thing and we play by our own rules
I don't think it's going to work out like that. There's a lot of people who are going to use the banned list and who are not going to be okay with you using those cards. And the ban list existed before these cards got banned. And I've never had to have a rule zero conversation about people using those other banned cards. This is because the expectation when you sit down with a random person to play Commander is that their deck is legal.
Seems like if this was their stance, they would have also banned Sol Ring, Ancient Tomb, Mana Vault, and Thassa's Oracle, maybe a bunch more? It almost feels like a half-measure that had some other purpose...
I haven't forgotten the Iconic Masters, Masters 25, Magic 30th anniversary, and then the recent Commander bannings, Mr. Mox Man. MTG has a large percentage of people with Stockholm Syndrome.
lol, I have 6 Revised and 3 4th mana vaults from back in the day. There’s tons of extra copies out there, it’s just worth it to dump now instead of hold. It’s not weird. I’ll hope to dump 1/2 mine before this dies
I'm not forgetting this. I have expensive cards. Fully legal pioneer and modern decks. But commander? It's proxy friendly. Embrace that. I'm in the process of pulling some cards to sell from my decks. Like fierce guardianship. Only legal in commander, expensive and controversial, thats getting sold and proxied.
This is a reset influenced from the ivory tower for the marvel honey pot coming. They are going to onboard so many new players and push packs and sealed to the new players so they can compete with the old decks... Just had to do some housekeeping first to lay the foundation. Just my take. 🍻
Less jamble and more ramble today. It's definitely crazy times right now. Members of the Advisory Group have resigned. Players are definitely upset and feel betrayed.
I've been bleating this since it was announced. Note that insider trading and market manipulation for non-recognized commodities such as mtg cards is not illegal. This is not illegal, so i think the rc are cashing out of their position. The best thing that could happen for the rc is if Wizards play into their hands and abolish them and the recent bans themselves, if they intervene. That gives them an edge to back out risk free on a she-said he-said in the public eye. Regardless none of them if found to be doing this are even remotely worried about a prison sentence. They have the power to cause this shift, so of course they're going to abuse it for their own gain. This is clear market manipulation and insider trading so they know Wizards is going to end the rc. I'd be astonished if the rc are still a thing in the coming future. These three are being targeted for one specific reason only. They sit as expensive, but marginally obtainable cards that have consistent high value despite reprints. Speaking of reprints not only do orginal and less desirable copies still maintain consistent high value, the fancy ones have consistent high value too. There are lots of copies of all three and yet they maintain high consistent value. They are the perfect candidates for market manipulation. Mishra's workshop is a $2,000 that is not accessible by any margin so of course the land that taps for three is untouched... They won't touch sol ring because it's inexpensive. This was targeted specifically for market manipulation. You'll never be able to prove they are profiting from this, but they all sold their copies months ago, have had friends buy up these cards and will dump them as soon as they unban them or Wizards takes action to unban them. I don't see this ban sticking, I don't see the rc sticking, so I think they know they will be unbanned.
Um i think its pretty obvious that Vault is the next best rock to Crypt. Its why i ran both in my Zhulodok commander deck. My initial thought when i read the ban was that Vault would spike while Crypt would drop a lot, then balance out. Not sure i see a conspiracy here.
I'm going to keep my full set of fast mana that isn't on the reserved list, regardless of if it gets banned. I'm not going to capitalize on this, I have all of them already, I'm not buying. I think I'm done buying new ones too, just saying confidence ruined. I agree with you that everyone knew, the biggest people knew, and they stopped buying, they sold off, and they are reaping the rewards. I'll also say, for the health of the game, they should be banned. Mana vault maybe should join them, sol ring too. I don't think they went hard enough on it.
And the next unfortunate step will be for WOTC to print more special mana vaults for a year and the RC to ban that too. This ban did nothing to slow down formats. The spike in mana vault sales proves that the same players aren't going to adapt but instead will still try to play as fast as they can because that is their style.
You might wanna buy a Grim Monolith as well as when the RC bans the vault it's the next best thing as it does the same thing even though it costs 1 more mana it does not ping you for 1 damage if you leave it tapped
Sol Ring, Ancient Tomb, Mana Vault all should have been banned based off the reasons the RC justified banning the JL, and MC. Insider trading been going on well over a year…
Was the only one here not willing to spend 200 $ on a non reserved list card that were high risk of ban ? I always thought , at this price i buy a dual not edh pay to win
My group and local store have all decided to ignore this stupid ban. We are old enough to regulate ourselves. If someone can't rule zero talk that is a communication issue with them, not the world.
They died to their own Mana Crypt, therefore...what? It's not extremely good? Sometimes people die because they used Sylvan Library or Necropotence, therefore they're not great! Makes sense.
For me the fast mana is really only a problem turn 1-3 .. if I have sol ring in my opening hand I wait to play it. Or I mull it.. bc it's a fair card mid to late game. I'm NOT going to buy any card that is a new version of a crypt. I think I'm done buying new cards. When cards are so powerful ever set and they just print more and more powerful cards to get your money ... Not a healthy balanced game 😔
If they wanted to slow the game down they would have banned Sol Ring. Sure Wizards themselves would have lost money thanks to it being in every precon but better than the players losing money plus the RC themselves said that Sol Ring should be banned but for some reason they won't ban it ever.
Bros, you can't believe this? It's been pretty talked about banning all these cards. It is not normal you're right. But people can speculate and buy what they can for days like these.
Kinda saw this happening to Mana Vault.. its also kinda convenient for WOTC to put in those Collector packs into the mystery 2 bundle before all this.
I don't know how anyone could realistically believe: 1. WOTC was not in on the decision and 2. People traded on the inside info.
Totally agree that the info was leaked in advance and insider trading clearly happens. The volume sold prior to the announcement can only be backed by advance knowledge, period. This is why Wotc is having a BIG trust issue and all these negative (and justified) reactions.
Most of the other fast mana has a drawback, usually in the form of another card OR a requirement that needs other pieces on board to activate. The only top of mind exception would be ancient tomb.
As to the mana vualt, that is hardly a direct or as impactful replacement to mana crypt as it typically only ever gets used once, unless you build around abusing it.
for me its more of a replacement for jeweled lotus. its kind of a one shot ritua,l if your deck is not marieke as commander like mine xD
Don't worry, they will ban them next year. I myself will never buy another expensive card until they make an official cedh banlist. I don't need RC Aholes telling me what kind of fun I am supposed to have. I rule zero and can communicate with people to play the game how the table wants. Its so easy, anyone can do it.
After this blatant market manipulation, the RC is donezo for me. RIP
The rule committee's response to speculation of insider trading felt sketch. Might be worth doing an investigation into sales the last couple of months.
months? just look a week earlier, the sales on those cards XDDDDD
@passalapasa the past weeks do look sus but I doubt they'd be that stupid to not trickle them out over months
I have a few mana vaults and the price jump is insane, I will sell and trade up to some Duals.
I have too many ima join the hot sale and
“But where are all these mana vaults coming from? It’s so suspicious!” 😂
@@Sdogsrock111 too bad I got a expedition mana crypt not mana vault 🫣
Calling it now. Mana vault reprint coming soon .
Mmmm, yeah that would be out of “necessity” at this point until peeps figure out command = play proxies. For every other format else, unless you play limited, buy singles. If you happen to be one of the types who suddenly switches hats to “I’m a collector or I’m an investor” - it’s time for you to bail out as the commander ship is burning to the ground in terms of long term value, sure there will be occasional spikes here and there but it is in overall decline, wizards cannot compete with proxies. Enjoy your fine luxury cardboard rectangles.
Some people like proxies. But most of us like the game and want to support it.
Calling it now. Mana Vault banned in edh in a year.
@realjoshuat5551 you can support the game and proxy. Just don't join the "proxy everything crowd".
@@realjoshuat5551 I'm not an investor, just a player so from my point of view: it's like supporting EA at this point. Wizards is not some indie developer that needs support. They will not get a dime directly from me unless they course correct this sinking ship. I still buy singles up to 5 EUR but anything else is played with proxy. Power creep, numerous sets a year, insufficient reprints for staples to drop their price. This all leads to price increase due to insufficient number of cards on the market, especially when they are printed as mythic rare. We need Commander Masters, Modern Masters and Pioneer Masters, not another Modern Horizon to shake the format. It's not a surprise that other formats are dying out outside Arena when decks are so expensive. 15 EUR for 1 fetchland? 30 EUR for Cavern of Souls? 60 EUR for Sheoldred? They focused on selling products to investors but forgot that they need other people to play their physical games outside commander where proxies are common nowadays.
I only own 1 Mana vault, I bought it on ebay back in 2018/19 - listed as a 5th edition @ £7 - turned out to be UNLIMITED!!!!!!
Appreciate the Wall of wood in the shorts BTW, I was on holiday in Tuscany and got 5 ICE that were not available for shipping to the UK shipped to a friend there, so I now have 60!
......and finally, a wee vid on the scarcity/price of old commander decks would be nice
Sure, Mana Vault is the next best thing to have, at least for one turn. Then you need some cost reduction or "untap" mechanism to (ab)use it frequently for lots of mana.
Mana vault is still there because wizards still has boxes with it in it to sell
Absolutely. watch them magically have special varients coming in near future sets (only to ban it too a year from now--nothing is safe and they made that clear with this nonesense
Vault is a bad card. It isn't fast mana. It's for combos. It isn't replacing shit.
@@derrickpaulson3093dude, this card is basically just a dark ritual, a worse dark ritual that costs you mana later to even use it again. Basically going to use it like a dark ritual, pay one cast it, tap it, use the mana and then you're probably not going to untap this thing again unless you hit with a turn in which you can't do anything and you have open mana and even then you might want to keep it open to bluff.
@@Xoulrath_ It already has...
@Xoulrath_ this is the "casuals" mindset. cEDH players aren't looking to use Mana Vault fairly over the next 10 turns. It's about powering something out when you need it, hopefully to win or to stop an opponent from winning.
I might still decide otherwise within the next couple of days but I am glad I'll be able to recover at least *some* of the cash lost by selling my Double Masters borderless mana vault. Kinda sad since that's been the most valuable pull I've gotten so far (Worst still that I bought a single Double Masters booster and got lucky) but I think I will be better off just selling my vault, purchasing a proxy of it and getting to enjoy having 150-200 bucks for stuff other than magic.
Mana vault has been around for a long time and until recently was a good card, but loss favor over the years. It was of course a good usable card back when revised was out. However, the cost was high to use.
Boomstick 💥lots of Mana vaults here 😀I love coffee Soldevi !!
This will be interesting to watch over the next few weeks. Really wondering if Sylvan Paradise and Sea Kings Blessing drop back to their former price now that Nadu is banned. (I doubt it, but we will see).
So happy my only Mana Crypt is the fairly rare original book promo, which seems to withstand the onslaught well. As for the J-Lo I pulled from Commander Legends, well, who am I to cry over spilt milk? And I did pick up a few Mana Vaults about a decade ago, when they were $2-3, so I guess I'm the one guy who can't complain about the cardboard massacre. If I was as smart as I'm lucky, you're right: I should unload those MV to desperate rampers while they are still in shock. Oh, my playset of Ancient Tombs bought for a fiver or so way back, probably just because I liked the art and already had common foils in my shopping cart. those are also likely to be a popular go-to for the mana hungry cmmander players who don't already have enough.
My question is why are people jumping so hard on mana vault? Wouldn’t basalt monolith be a better option since it only costs 3 to untap and it’s only $2-3?
it's not as cheap to cast a 1-mana thing
especially now that the 0-mana rock is banned
@@loneshadow9656 I looked before I did the video no massive surge in sales mana cost to high I guess
Mana vault is getting pricy now. Edh community in shambles.
I'm breaking 20 decks keeps 4 selling the rest selling all my sealed product f wotc I'm anti proxy now I'm going to proxy
Hmmm, its almost like the ban did nothing but aggravate people who will still choose to play the same way (fast mana). I thought this was supposed to make everyone play slow games (eyeroll).
@@DVS57REBELsame
@@derrickpaulson3093It will. Someone in another video pointed out the obvious fact that this ban isn't for cedh players, not for people who have dedicated playgroups, It's for people who go up to their lgs and sit down with a bunch of randoms who may not agree to take out their Mana crypt because you say you don't want to play against it. It's for those people. When you sit down with random people to play a game, the expectation is that their deck is legal. Door cards on the band list before these and I've never sat down a random game and asked my opponent. Are they playing those other banned cards? Because it's always an expectation that your deck is legal.
Just in case you didn't understand why I was pointing out those groups. A group of cedh players are going to rule zero those cards back in. A dedicated playgroup will rule zero, whatever they want to be in or not. Randalls don't always agree with you. So when you're playing with random people, the vandalist is the expectation for the game before you ever sit down.
Like I said, I've played with multiple randoms all the time and I've never had to ask them about what they are or are not using. The rule zero conversation has ever only gotten to power level and proxies.
No it's not, only these channels keep perpetuating this idea that it is. CEdh has pretty much just accepted it and moved on. Infact it seems most people got over it in about a day or 2 and went on with their lives because magic is not their life.
Everyone knew the replacement card for Mana Crypt would be Mana Vault. It's the natural next step down from Mana Crypt. Of the two card stores in my area I know both have had multiple Mana Vaults in their inventories for quite a while. I personally have 9 Mana Vaults, and I am just one guy. Why do I have 9 Mana Vaults. Well, I have a lot of Commander decks and I saw the price on them dropping considerably after the Covid money went out of MtG. Mana Vault is a great card, but it needs other cards to really break it. Mana Crypt was broken out of the box. Now that the cost of Mana Crypt has dropped so much I will probably go and buy one (the Ixalan version or maybe the Double Masters) just to have one, because the art is pretty cool on them.
MoxManiacs Don’t let the bans get you down…. Shop smart, shop S Mart! #Boomstick
Good reference
I dont have mana crypt, jeweled lotus or dockside.. but i do have a mana vault lets gooo! Lol
I would rather my Jeweled Lotus still be legal but I have a 4th edition Mana Vault so cool I guess LOL
I have a revised and master mana vault and will use them (do already) but I will also like most in my area who play cedh including stores tell the RC to jump off a cliff and ignore this ban.
I have a 4th Edition Mana Vault in my deck that I was taking to a casual EDH lunchtime game yesterday. Saw the price spike - thought, hmm, maybe I should have this deck double sleeved now.
I already thought the RC was a joke, but at this point, the format is literally splitting. It feels like 90%+ of the high power and CEDH community is Vetoing their decision. I will also stand by the fact that banning Jeweled lotus was an outright mistake. They took a card that was worth between $100 and $600 and banned it in the only format it could be played in. This was definitely a financially driven decision, and there is no recovering from it. Either they unban it (after insiders buy up hundreds of copies cheap), or they don't and everyone who has one gets f*****.
Hope you only have 1 deck that needs mana vault
@@richardmolano5538 I wasn’t currently using it so yeah I can throw it in somewhere I’m sure
My mana vaults before the banning 2 revised, 1 unlimited at like 250-300 total now they’re 700… wtf…
thats how the secondary market regulates itself. all this "ohh the lgs `s loosing millions" now they have mana vaults worth 400% more... its just shifting. i would keep an eye on underworld breach, it is maybe the best red CEDH card now
@@drokhalis3338 yep same insane may sell to get more power
@@hrdrsu763 But that’s assuming someone was a goblin like I was and was collecting vintage mana vaults, there can only be so many as lucky, but EVERYONE who had the cards banned (outside of Nadu) lost hundreds.
Sell before the ban hammer comes back.
@@KevinCostner471 Vintage cards shrug off bannings rather quickly my brown mana crypt only dropped 33% from its peak.
Shit they literally reprinted duals and power for 30th and now my time walk is at all time high.
Pepperidge Farm will always remember these cards specifically created for Commander were banned from usage in a casual format and it will never forget the Economic Team. Boomstick💥😎
Glad you pointed out the leak. I'm sure you saw, but lotus and crypt were moving before the ban. The leaks are normally from wotc staff, you always see little volume blips before bans. This one though, is wild... honestly the whole "crazy" idea the RC threw out of putting their collections in escrow in all honesty would be a good way to rebuild and secure trust.
I hadn't heard about the banning yet when I picked up a Revised Mana Vault for pretty cheap, call it intuition? Sold it the same day for twice my paid price. Today I might have made more of it even, but who knows what tomorrow will bring?
too bad most players don't actually know how to use mana vault, or how many untappers or tutors for them you need in your deck to make vault even worth using. willing to bet vault price plummets in 30 days because no one can actually use it properly.
It a replacement for mana crypt for me. Not because of the fast mana but its a cheap way to hurt myself lol
It’s not exactly rocket science I think they’ll be alright. Anybody gunning for more bans should take note that there is always a next best thing and if you were miserable before the ban you’re going to be miserable after.
Who was running Crypt but not Vault also?
Mate a lot of the high power decks just use it as a ritual as in a one and done for a ramp into their big spells
@@Davedave3303The next best thing isn't the best thing. That's why it's called the next best thing. Mana vault is nowhere near as good as mana crypt. Mana vault is essentially a glorified dark ritual.
mana vault does seem like a decent replacement for jewel lotus for high casting cost commanders.
I think the mana vault is mostly a surge price and i do expect it to level out again because of the fact it doesn't untap without the mana investment. Or some help which essentially makes it a temporary mana crypt with even more downside than actual mana crypt.
Star City Games took Jeweled Lotus and Mana Crypt off their buy list two weeks before the ban.
No real surprise here. Gotta replace Mana Crypt. Next one to be banned? Naw, not if Sol Ring isn't going to be banned.
There's a simple solution.. sol ring mana crypt can't enter the battle field til turn 3-5
If you're worried about tempo
@@uv_khamaileon sounds like a rule 0 conversation. Which I think is most people's points. It didn't need to be banned if people were able to communicate about what kind of game or rules for their game they want to impose.
No sol rings? Ez.
No sol ring until turn 3. Also ez
No fast mana? Again... EZ
@@geofferiswheel green got you beat .. simic ? I tutor all my lands onto the battlefield.
Speaking the real truths in this video. We must protect MoxMon at all costs.
@@getlikeaddy boomstick!
Every ramble jumble goes to the same place, and that place is Soldevi Excavations!
I'm not quitting but I will say, I'm not buying sealed product till I see WoTC start taking steps in the right direction.
I will proxy, and I will put my money into better hobbies. I'm not the only one either.
Also it doesn't have anything to do with the money to me. It has everything to do with WoTC seeming to blatantly disrespect their player base.
You have 4 mana vaults?! Who gave you inside knowledge!? >:(
My collection went up in value by like $2000. I was moving from budget player to start getting a few expensive cards, but did not cross the $100+/card line yet. So instead of the banned cards, I went to the replacements to save money. Now that this happened, I too am looking to sell these cards like [Mana Vault] at a high price. I prefer to buy whole decks with that money over being "high power" in one or two, and they are likely to be on the watchlist for possible future bans anyway.
My LGS has like 12-15 of those, and they came from the Double Masters(?) and Ixalan Special Guest reprints. People who pulled a [Mana Crypt] replaced their [Mana Vault] and sold it either to the shop or the "not yet paying that much" players like me.
I don't think that is such an unreasonable stance.
Mana Vault is NOT your replacement. Its generic Mana. It works ONCE and you have to include a method to untap(paying 4 is NOT the way, upkeep btw). I'm expecting after its done rising to crash HARD because it is NOT Lotus or Crypt. That reminder you needed colored mana. Or rush it out to one extra card rather than further ramp, tempo or gameplan(effectively) and forget it doesn't untap for free. Please do watch closely and remember to not replace out of desperation but necessity. The secondary market is quite volatile and I'm curious if other cards are dropping or rising to compete for either replacement slots or to compliment vault/mox.
Also LED, I wonder....
That's crazy I got my copy for like $2.00 USD + $4.00 shipping. Proxies rule.
#Moxmaniacs!
I have multiple, sealed Set and Collector boxes of 2X2! Is it time to crack’em?
#Boomstick
Maybe track who sold a ton of jeweled lotus the day before the banning - and also who bought sold mana crypts in bulk on special days
I subscribed for the handwritten paper for the 25k milestone ✌
My cards only drop in price ! 🤘🦁🤘
Grim Monolith is up next ! 😬
To be fair, my first thought when the ban hit was to try to trade in my Crypt for a Vault. But as it sits I'll probably be replacing it with a Basalt Manalith.
Ramble doesn't need a direction
Those bannings are a GREAT example why I try not to get my hands on those cards and play without em, its made me try to get more clever with my decks since I play casually and never competitively.
I feel for all my friends that had 1-3 copies of any of those cards, I only have one Jeweled Lotus from a commander Master's box I cracked. The loss was minimal for me but for others its worse.
How they ban the chase card from commander masters lmao.. I don't play in commander tournaments only casual. Nut shot to cedh which isnt my cup of tea format. I have one dockside and it's in the precon it came in. I'm not adjusting the decks that run these cards. Edh existed long before commander was ever a thing and we play by our own rules
Couldn't agree more!
I don't think it's going to work out like that. There's a lot of people who are going to use the banned list and who are not going to be okay with you using those cards.
And the ban list existed before these cards got banned. And I've never had to have a rule zero conversation about people using those other banned cards. This is because the expectation when you sit down with a random person to play Commander is that their deck is legal.
@@Grimjr7 we don't have to play. It's a choice. Also not all my decks run mana crypt. I don't own a jeweled lotus
Gotta love unregulated markets am I right?
Mana Vault isn't RL.. don't pay FOMO prices. Shop Smart. Shop S-Mart!
#BOOMSTICK
The ban situation reeks of insider trading. I'm smelling a class action coming. The issue is who to direct it to.
There’s no laws broken. You have absolutely nothing to support your claim of it “reeking of insider trading”
@@chim007azo Time will tell
@@JasonCasperLive I'm just as excited to find out as everyone else
LoL, never happen.
I knew. Felt like common sense once i saw crypt ban but not vault even know it is explosive mana.
Mana Time!
MoxMan!!!
Michael Super Backer🎉
Seems like if this was their stance, they would have also banned Sol Ring, Ancient Tomb, Mana Vault, and Thassa's Oracle, maybe a bunch more? It almost feels like a half-measure that had some other purpose...
I haven't forgotten the Iconic Masters, Masters 25, Magic 30th anniversary, and then the recent Commander bannings, Mr. Mox Man. MTG has a large percentage of people with Stockholm Syndrome.
lol, I have 6 Revised and 3 4th mana vaults from back in the day. There’s tons of extra copies out there, it’s just worth it to dump now instead of hold. It’s not weird. I’ll hope to dump 1/2 mine before this dies
Are these cards all pretty much Commander play exclusive or will they find homes in other formats?
I'm not forgetting this. I have expensive cards. Fully legal pioneer and modern decks. But commander? It's proxy friendly. Embrace that. I'm in the process of pulling some cards to sell from my decks. Like fierce guardianship. Only legal in commander, expensive and controversial, thats getting sold and proxied.
Loved the bans. Its a much better for expanding the market
Grim monolith might be the next card to go weird.
BOOMstick baby!!
My foil etched Mana Vault was going for $90 before the banning occurred
This is a reset influenced from the ivory tower for the marvel honey pot coming. They are going to onboard so many new players and push packs and sealed to the new players so they can compete with the old decks... Just had to do some housekeeping first to lay the foundation. Just my take. 🍻
Less jamble and more ramble today. It's definitely crazy times right now. Members of the Advisory Group have resigned. Players are definitely upset and feel betrayed.
Its people selling off their collections. 3 out of my playgroup have started selling all of our cards. We have a small group
WotC commits Pre-Meditated murder with the bans. Festival in a Box had 2 sets that relied heavily on these banned cards. #NoSealedNovember
I can see a bump in the proxy market coming
Numbers don’t lie. Although some would like you to believe it. Haha what a crock of crap this is. The festival in a box 😂
@@junglerumbler6917 lol
I never really used mana vault. But now i will use the 3 i have. 😮😂
Lots of insider trading going on..........
Tons
everyone needs to boycott wotc as punishment.
I've been bleating this since it was announced. Note that insider trading and market manipulation for non-recognized commodities such as mtg cards is not illegal.
This is not illegal, so i think the rc are cashing out of their position.
The best thing that could happen for the rc is if Wizards play into their hands and abolish them and the recent bans themselves, if they intervene.
That gives them an edge to back out risk free on a she-said he-said in the public eye. Regardless none of them if found to be doing this are even remotely worried about a prison sentence.
They have the power to cause this shift, so of course they're going to abuse it for their own gain.
This is clear market manipulation and insider trading so they know Wizards is going to end the rc. I'd be astonished if the rc are still a thing in the coming future.
These three are being targeted for one specific reason only. They sit as expensive, but marginally obtainable cards that have consistent high value despite reprints.
Speaking of reprints not only do orginal and less desirable copies still maintain consistent high value, the fancy ones have consistent high value too. There are lots of copies of all three and yet they maintain high consistent value.
They are the perfect candidates for market manipulation.
Mishra's workshop is a $2,000 that is not accessible by any margin so of course the land that taps for three is untouched...
They won't touch sol ring because it's inexpensive.
This was targeted specifically for market manipulation.
You'll never be able to prove they are profiting from this, but they all sold their copies months ago, have had friends buy up these cards and will dump them as soon as they unban them or Wizards takes action to unban them.
I don't see this ban sticking, I don't see the rc sticking, so I think they know they will be unbanned.
@@sussygamer3581I’m done
Evidence?
Rip my Dockside but my 2x2 Borderless Foil Mana Vault skyrocketed! I guess ill sell it before the RC has another brain dead power trip!
Um i think its pretty obvious that Vault is the next best rock to Crypt. Its why i ran both in my Zhulodok commander deck. My initial thought when i read the ban was that Vault would spike while Crypt would drop a lot, then balance out. Not sure i see a conspiracy here.
I'm going to keep my full set of fast mana that isn't on the reserved list, regardless of if it gets banned. I'm not going to capitalize on this, I have all of them already, I'm not buying. I think I'm done buying new ones too, just saying confidence ruined. I agree with you that everyone knew, the biggest people knew, and they stopped buying, they sold off, and they are reaping the rewards.
I'll also say, for the health of the game, they should be banned. Mana vault maybe should join them, sol ring too. I don't think they went hard enough on it.
The odds this wasn’t premeditated are slim
so some stuff goes up and some stuff goes down, a diversified collection should be fine.
I say wait a few months and see what mana vault goes up to.
Class action incoming.... and they deserve it
Need stronger cup coffee for this shit, fixn to a fun few days!!! 😅
I mean i immediately predicted that mana vault would spike and replace crypt, just seemed like the next logical step
And the next unfortunate step will be for WOTC to print more special mana vaults for a year and the RC to ban that too. This ban did nothing to slow down formats. The spike in mana vault sales proves that the same players aren't going to adapt but instead will still try to play as fast as they can because that is their style.
You might wanna buy a Grim Monolith as well as when the RC bans the vault it's the next best thing as it does the same thing even though it costs 1 more mana it does not ping you for 1 damage if you leave it tapped
Ordered a few unlimited vaults before spike hit Europe too hard. 🎉🎉🎉
I got few Vaults very cheap before this
Just like our politicians there are lots of insider trading going down
Boomstick 🎉
Just do what me and my play group do we just have a rule 0 about what we want to play
I just removed a mint Revised Mana Vault from my trade folder 😅
Sol Ring, Ancient Tomb, Mana Vault all should have been banned based off the reasons the RC justified banning the JL, and MC.
Insider trading been going on well over a year…
Was the only one here not willing to spend 200 $ on a non reserved list card that were high risk of ban ? I always thought , at this price i buy a dual not edh pay to win
The problem is Mana Vault and Jeweled Lotus were signaled by WOTC to be low risk investments since they reprinted each so recently and multiple times.
Mana crypt ban is dumb .. I've seen people die to their own crypt. Our play group isn't interested in wotz bans .
My group and local store have all decided to ignore this stupid ban. We are old enough to regulate ourselves. If someone can't rule zero talk that is a communication issue with them, not the world.
Rule 0 > RC
Wizard's don't make the Commander ban list.
They died to their own Mana Crypt, therefore...what? It's not extremely good? Sometimes people die because they used Sylvan Library or Necropotence, therefore they're not great! Makes sense.
For me the fast mana is really only a problem turn 1-3 .. if I have sol ring in my opening hand I wait to play it. Or I mull it.. bc it's a fair card mid to late game. I'm NOT going to buy any card that is a new version of a crypt. I think I'm done buying new cards. When cards are so powerful ever set and they just print more and more powerful cards to get your money ... Not a healthy balanced game 😔
I have an old mana vault.
So, time to sell my Mana Vault and turn it into, I dunno, a Sliver Queen?
If they wanted to slow the game down they would have banned Sol Ring. Sure Wizards themselves would have lost money thanks to it being in every precon but better than the players losing money plus the RC themselves said that Sol Ring should be banned but for some reason they won't ban it ever.
I love the bans
Commander players not allowed to have too much fun… 😢
How to overcome the banning real simple.....rule 0 and no mtg sponsored edh tournament games.
theyre going to ban mana vault too, just watch
Plot Twist : There will be new mox
Bros, you can't believe this? It's been pretty talked about banning all these cards. It is not normal you're right. But people can speculate and buy what they can for days like these.
If they start promoting it like they did crypt sell
Mana vault isnt that good. Will have to get round to selling mine whilst the hype is there
sorry but i bought 2 mana vaults on monday.. it was too obvious. payed 30 bucks each
Power artifact…
Why the fuck would you feed the next ban. Proxy folks.
TCG player don’t lie