Thank you for this. The triage helps me to be able to work through the gaslighting and the denials, and gives me a concrete way to look for genuine desire to change. (I don’t see it.) I really appreciate what you do, and I really appreciate the hard work you put into being able to present good evidence.
Porn is the thief of intimacy between spouses. 😞 No wonder men have a hard time with foreplay and exploring their wives bodies because porn is all give and the man doesn't have to DO anything. It's a screen! Exploring your spouses body and mind in intimacy is one of the most joyous things in marriage!!! It's so much fun and beautiful!! My husband and I are novice writers, he has written and directed many plays and I illustrate and have dabbled with writing. We are praying about writing some children's books about good fruit/bad fruit, abuse and toxic relationships and what it looks like in life ♥️ Sheila, your channel here has inspired me! I grew up in a handful of toxic friendships, and on top of growing up with an angry father and a co-dependent mom and those friendships, it prepped me to marry a covert narcissist "Christian" man. 😞 Keep doing what you're doing!! It's amazing!!!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻🙏🏻♥️♥️♥️
You quickly mention 4 or 5 organizations, where to get Christian base help from porn addiction. Please write these organizations down ,so I can check in to them for a friend of mine. Thank You for all you are doing, God Bless ! 🙏
The medication example doesn't square up, and since you are "not an expert" on this, why are you creating groups based on how YOU think about it? These groups with different solutions based on self-reported answers by the porn users do not exist according to porn experts. There is a porn issue or there isn't, and if there is, it requires intervention of specialists and taking it seriously as an abuse and trauma issue. There is NO case where it is appropriate to jump to reconciliation or treating it as a marriage problem. The specialists are the only ones equipped to determine appropriate treatment, and conduct screenings (this shouldn't be put on women, who don't actually KNOW the answers yet. Most women need extensive help before they even can see the answers to these questions clearly). Experts look at safety for the victim and recovery for the abuser REGARDLESS of severity. These are NOT opposing routes. Reconciliation of the relationship is ALWAYS subsequent to safety for the victim and recovery for the abuser. You aren't even using the word "recovery" correctly because you're conflating it with recovery of the RELATIONSHIP. So please just REFER TO EXPERTS (or become experts) and stop causing more harm by suggesting solutions based on your uninformed ideas.
So many ideas here just reflect a lack of expertise on betrayal trauma. I don't know why you think the betrayal trauma community says men can't get over it or that they can't recover. They all say many men choose NOT to change (which is true of all abusers, not just porn abusers), but every single resource I know of says men CAN recover if they commit to the process of recovery. "If he's a porn user, divorce him" is just not common message, so I'm not sure who you're repudiating here. Also, many men STOP porn use, get sober "easily" but continue abusing in other ways. Does any actual betrayal trauma expert believe what you're saying about PTSD being more likely if you mention trauma APPLIES to intimate partner betrayal trauma? WHERE are you getting the idea it's not always traumatic to discover a husband's hidden porn use? WHERE and WHAT are you basing your argument that it causes PTSD to suggest that is traumatic? When the experts say a long-term abusive relationship is 100% abusive, that discovery of a secret sexual life is 100% traumatic, why do you think you know that's not true based on OTHER types of potentially traumatic experiences?
I realize that my comment is a little off topic however, I don’t see that this very important issue is being addressed. If you ask a woman whether she would marry a man without a job, it’s safe to say that 100% of them would obviously reply “no”. What women fail to see is that men have their own built in desires in a wife and that is her virginity. Women desire to be taken care of, men desire the women’s virginity. This goes all the way back to biblical times. Western society men comprise this and marry the non-virgin women either because he can’t find a virgin or he’s marrying her just based on her outer appearance. Both men end up realizing that they can’t experience sexual intimacy with their non-virgin wife because she’s already given that away to another man/men. This truth is not being spoken. God’s grace and forgiveness does not change the consequences of our actions. For example, if given a choice a man will chose the virgin bride over the non-virgin women 100% of the time because his inherit nature is territorial. This has nothing to do with whether she’s forgiven or not. A man still realizes that his wife’s memories of her past experiences with other men will still remain. All husbands, whether they admit this to their wives or not, realize later in their marriage that marrying her was no real accomplishment if she’s already given her body to other men prior to him. Women connect sexually with their husbands by way of emotions however, men are completely opposite. Men connect sexually with their wives when he’s the only one that she’s had. As I said earlier, this has always been the truth. I’ve spoken with a significant amount of husbands who are struggling with trying to have a sexual connection with their wives knowing that there are other men that have been in her body as well, and before him. “He doesn’t care if she didn’t love the other men, “BECAUSE HE LOOKS AT HER UNTOUCHED BODY AS THE PRIZE AND NOT HER IINNER EMOTIONS.” This is very important for women to know. This issue needs to be addressed in truth and not hidden behind God’s forgiveness. News flash to women, just like you still require a man to provide and protect, he still wants what you can never provide if you weren’t a virgin bride and that’s exclusivity. I tell my of age daughters this so they aren’t blind sided to how men view sexual intimacy in marriage. Our modern day culture is designed to ruin women before marriage. Women need to be aware of this.
There's a lot to unpack here and probably research to look into on whether what you say about men and virginity is true - hopefully Sheila and her team can address that in the future. BUT let's talk about why a man being employed and a woman being a virgin are not in the same realm and should not be compared. An unemployed man can change his situation at any time. A woman who had sex before marriage cannot go back and change the past. There is nothing she can do about this, and that's why grace and forgiveness comes in. An unemployed man doesn't need grace and forgiveness, just a job. What you're saying is much more hurtful to women because one mistake in their past is supposedly going to ruin their chance of getting married, or having a happy marriage. I'm sad you're telling your daughters this. It sounds like a scare tactic to me.
You are also communicating that men are less godly if they are unable to forgive and still connect emotionally in the same way as women. It's a very low view of men.
@@rvank8037 I expected your response and honestly I’m not surprised because our modern day Western society as normalized what shouldn’t be normal. Women are filing 80% of all divorces and breaking up families along the way. This can be verified by a simple online search. The common denominator is her inability to connect emotionally to her husband due to her sexual past. During Biblical times women had to prove virginity. The reason why is obvious. If you’re questioning why would a man greatly prefer to marry a virgin woman instead of a non-virgin proves my point. Plain and simple, women have been deceived by today’s culture and they are ruining themselves before marriage. This is why today’s modern men are refusing to get married.
@@rvank8037 This has nothing to do with forgiveness. You’re completely missing the point. Men are not built to share their wife sexually with men before him. He’s territorial by nature and literally gets nauseous even imagining that another man has experienced his wife before him. MEN DON’T EXPERIENCE SEXUAL INTIMACY LIKE WOMEN DO. HE LITERALLY EXPERIENCES INTIMACY BY HIS BRIDES EXCLUSIVE BODY. “This is fact!” Anything less is just a physical experience to him.
@@peter2633 1. "During Biblical times..." Something being done in the ancient near east does not make it biblically prescribed or right. 2. I did not question why a man would prefer to marry a virgin. I can imagine why. But who is having sex with all these women before marriage? Men? Then (perhaps different) men marry them against their better judgement and are not able to feel intimacy towards them because they cannot forgive them for past actions? Then when their unloved wives divorce them it is the fault of the women? This is a low view of men and a low view of marriage. 3. You have no evidence for what you are saying. We can perhaps verify that 80% of marriages are ended by the wife, but we do not know it is because they all lack intimacy with their husbands due to premarital sex on their part. The stats are not that specific and you know it. If it's how you feel about non-virgin women, fine. But you have said all men feel this way when you don't know that. You have taken what God asked us to do as Christians (abstain from sex outside of marriage), added your own reasoning for it, and stated how obvious it is that that's why God asked this of us. This is sloppy exegesis at best.
The reality that you completely ignore the people concerned that you aren’t being biblical and want to bend backwards and “understand” and not hurt the people who are on the “other side” more than those trying to be biblical is my entire issue with this podcast.
Thank you for this. The triage helps me to be able to work through the gaslighting and the denials, and gives me a concrete way to look for genuine desire to change. (I don’t see it.) I really appreciate what you do, and I really appreciate the hard work you put into being able to present good evidence.
Thank you for addressing this. I needed this clarity!
Porn is the thief of intimacy between spouses. 😞 No wonder men have a hard time with foreplay and exploring their wives bodies because porn is all give and the man doesn't have to DO anything. It's a screen! Exploring your spouses body and mind in intimacy is one of the most joyous things in marriage!!! It's so much fun and beautiful!!
My husband and I are novice writers, he has written and directed many plays and I illustrate and have dabbled with writing. We are praying about writing some children's books about good fruit/bad fruit, abuse and toxic relationships and what it looks like in life ♥️
Sheila, your channel here has inspired me! I grew up in a handful of toxic friendships, and on top of growing up with an angry father and a co-dependent mom and those friendships, it prepped me to marry a covert narcissist "Christian" man. 😞
Keep doing what you're doing!! It's amazing!!!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻🙏🏻♥️♥️♥️
THANK YOU SO MUCH! This podcast was very helpful ♥️
The Princess Bride reference 😆👏👏
This is excellent. New subscriber here.
You quickly mention 4 or 5 organizations, where to get Christian base help from porn addiction. Please write these organizations down ,so I can check in to them for a friend of mine. Thank You for all you are doing, God Bless ! 🙏
Good podcast.
The medication example doesn't square up, and since you are "not an expert" on this, why are you creating groups based on how YOU think about it? These groups with different solutions based on self-reported answers by the porn users do not exist according to porn experts. There is a porn issue or there isn't, and if there is, it requires intervention of specialists and taking it seriously as an abuse and trauma issue. There is NO case where it is appropriate to jump to reconciliation or treating it as a marriage problem. The specialists are the only ones equipped to determine appropriate treatment, and conduct screenings (this shouldn't be put on women, who don't actually KNOW the answers yet. Most women need extensive help before they even can see the answers to these questions clearly). Experts look at safety for the victim and recovery for the abuser REGARDLESS of severity. These are NOT opposing routes. Reconciliation of the relationship is ALWAYS subsequent to safety for the victim and recovery for the abuser. You aren't even using the word "recovery" correctly because you're conflating it with recovery of the RELATIONSHIP. So please just REFER TO EXPERTS (or become experts) and stop causing more harm by suggesting solutions based on your uninformed ideas.
So many ideas here just reflect a lack of expertise on betrayal trauma. I don't know why you think the betrayal trauma community says men can't get over it or that they can't recover. They all say many men choose NOT to change (which is true of all abusers, not just porn abusers), but every single resource I know of says men CAN recover if they commit to the process of recovery. "If he's a porn user, divorce him" is just not common message, so I'm not sure who you're repudiating here. Also, many men STOP porn use, get sober "easily" but continue abusing in other ways. Does any actual betrayal trauma expert believe what you're saying about PTSD being more likely if you mention trauma APPLIES to intimate partner betrayal trauma? WHERE are you getting the idea it's not always traumatic to discover a husband's hidden porn use? WHERE and WHAT are you basing your argument that it causes PTSD to suggest that is traumatic? When the experts say a long-term abusive relationship is 100% abusive, that discovery of a secret sexual life is 100% traumatic, why do you think you know that's not true based on OTHER types of potentially traumatic experiences?
Restart at 12:45
I realize that my comment is a little off topic however, I don’t see that this very important issue is being addressed.
If you ask a woman whether she would marry a man without a job, it’s safe to say that 100% of them would obviously reply “no”.
What women fail to see is that men have their own built in desires in a wife and that is her virginity. Women desire to be taken care of, men desire the women’s virginity. This goes all the way back to biblical times.
Western society men comprise this and marry the non-virgin women either because he can’t find a virgin or he’s marrying her just based on her outer appearance. Both men end up realizing that they can’t experience sexual intimacy with their non-virgin wife because she’s already given that away to another man/men.
This truth is not being spoken. God’s grace and forgiveness does not change the consequences of our actions. For example, if given a choice a man will chose the virgin bride over the non-virgin women 100% of the time because his inherit nature is territorial. This has nothing to do with whether she’s forgiven or not. A man still realizes that his wife’s memories of her past experiences with other men will still remain.
All husbands, whether they admit this to their wives or not, realize later in their marriage that marrying her was no real accomplishment if she’s already given her body to other men prior to him. Women connect sexually with their husbands by way of emotions however, men are completely opposite.
Men connect sexually with their wives when he’s the only one that she’s had. As I said earlier, this has always been the truth. I’ve spoken with a significant amount of husbands who are struggling with trying to have a sexual connection with their wives knowing that there are other men that have been in her body as well, and before him. “He doesn’t care if she didn’t love the other men, “BECAUSE HE LOOKS AT HER UNTOUCHED BODY AS THE PRIZE AND NOT HER IINNER EMOTIONS.” This is very important for women to know.
This issue needs to be addressed in truth and not hidden behind God’s forgiveness. News flash to women, just like you still require a man to provide and protect, he still wants what you can never provide if you weren’t a virgin bride and that’s exclusivity.
I tell my of age daughters this so they aren’t blind sided to how men view sexual intimacy in marriage. Our modern day culture is designed to ruin women before marriage. Women need to be aware of this.
There's a lot to unpack here and probably research to look into on whether what you say about men and virginity is true - hopefully Sheila and her team can address that in the future.
BUT let's talk about why a man being employed and a woman being a virgin are not in the same realm and should not be compared. An unemployed man can change his situation at any time. A woman who had sex before marriage cannot go back and change the past. There is nothing she can do about this, and that's why grace and forgiveness comes in. An unemployed man doesn't need grace and forgiveness, just a job. What you're saying is much more hurtful to women because one mistake in their past is supposedly going to ruin their chance of getting married, or having a happy marriage. I'm sad you're telling your daughters this. It sounds like a scare tactic to me.
You are also communicating that men are less godly if they are unable to forgive and still connect emotionally in the same way as women. It's a very low view of men.
@@rvank8037 I expected your response and honestly I’m not surprised because our modern day Western society as normalized what shouldn’t be normal.
Women are filing 80% of all divorces and breaking up families along the way. This can be verified by a simple online search. The common denominator is her inability to connect emotionally to her husband due to her sexual past. During Biblical times women had to prove virginity. The reason why is obvious.
If you’re questioning why would a man greatly prefer to marry a virgin woman instead of a non-virgin proves my point. Plain and simple, women have been deceived by today’s culture and they are ruining themselves before marriage. This is why today’s modern men are refusing to get married.
@@rvank8037 This has nothing to do with forgiveness. You’re completely missing the point. Men are not built to share their wife sexually with men before him. He’s territorial by nature and literally gets nauseous even imagining that another man has experienced his wife before him.
MEN DON’T EXPERIENCE SEXUAL INTIMACY LIKE WOMEN DO. HE LITERALLY EXPERIENCES INTIMACY BY HIS BRIDES EXCLUSIVE BODY. “This is fact!” Anything less is just a physical experience to him.
@@peter2633 1. "During Biblical times..." Something being done in the ancient near east does not make it biblically prescribed or right.
2. I did not question why a man would prefer to marry a virgin. I can imagine why. But who is having sex with all these women before marriage? Men? Then (perhaps different) men marry them against their better judgement and are not able to feel intimacy towards them because they cannot forgive them for past actions? Then when their unloved wives divorce them it is the fault of the women? This is a low view of men and a low view of marriage.
3. You have no evidence for what you are saying. We can perhaps verify that 80% of marriages are ended by the wife, but we do not know it is because they all lack intimacy with their husbands due to premarital sex on their part. The stats are not that specific and you know it. If it's how you feel about non-virgin women, fine. But you have said all men feel this way when you don't know that. You have taken what God asked us to do as Christians (abstain from sex outside of marriage), added your own reasoning for it, and stated how obvious it is that that's why God asked this of us. This is sloppy exegesis at best.
The reality that you completely ignore the people concerned that you aren’t being biblical and want to bend backwards and “understand” and not hurt the people who are on the “other side” more than those trying to be biblical is my entire issue with this podcast.