Before people get angry, please remember, 1. I absolutely loved the game, and will stream collecting the hearts. 2. Our individual life experience colour how we experience media, meaning certain tropes, stories, and concepts are going to be amazing for some, but frustrating for others. 3. My personal experience doesn't in anyway diminish your experience.
You're 100% correct that it doesn't have to hit the same for everyone, and it's unfortunate that part of the story didn't do it for you. For what it's worth, I looked up an interview with Maddy Thorson on Kotaku from when the game released, and she said "Our top priorities were to tell a story that meant something to us and explore these topics from a individual perspective, to draw players into this world with these characters we grew to love ... Our intention going in wasn’t to represent mental illness in general, or to make a ‘how to deal with depression’ guide, and we didn’t think to consult professionals on the topic ... Making sure we didn’t trivialize the problems our characters were grappling with was a big concern for us" So I honestly think they were drawing on their own experiences and not trying to generalise depression, it just is different from your experience, and as you say it's impossible to appeal to everyone
I actually read that interview during scripting, and I think the snag is that drawing on their own experience VS what is shown in game is where the inauthenticity appears. Our devs own experience is absolutely valid to include, but the character needs to also have a build up or story that connects to that experience. By that point of the game, our heroine has journeyed to a mountain, climbed the entire thing almost, made friends, battled her inner self, gone through horrifying experiences as those new friends were put in danger, and genuinely done amazing things, all while battling through anxiety which, to give credit, is really well represented mostly due to the subtlety of the representation. Now, people with depression CAN DO amazing things and in fact some of the greatest art is from them, but the issue is the self doubt, and other "hints" shown in the games lead up to that scene don't really reflect or connect with how it's described by our main character. If you look at Bo Burnham's Inside, you watch a man create amazing things, while genuinely falling into disarray, unshaven, unclean, unshowered, he still scales his mountain but you can see how bad it's gotten, and when he says how awful he feels or when it seems like he will quit, it isn't glamorous or beautiful, you can't romanticise Bo Burnhams state in that piece of art, it's a genuine reflection of trying to make progress while depressed (and if you do romanticize it, well... that's wild) Compared to our main character and their scene, they're sat under beautiful twinkling stars, as they're given endless complements by their new friend they just saved, being told their a good person, remind them of their high achieving sister, they crack jokes about drinking and getting mad on the internet. At no point up until now, did I ever believe our heroine was going to turn back, or that she felt truly like she couldn't reach the top, it's always pushed that she's so stubborn and spiteful, she's going to reach the top, refusing to break her own promises again. All of this, and especially that scene, you can and people do romanticise, because it's portrayed as beautiful, and powerful. If they'd included even 1 earlier scene that was more focused on depression, rather than anxiety, I think it would make more sense, a genuine moment where you think she isn't going to make it because she's struggling with depression, because again, practically every time her inner voice belittles her and says she can't and needs to turn back... she just shuts it down, and argues that she can and will, or has to out of spite. Put her in the Hotel of Chapter 3 and give me an entire scene where she sits down on a bed just... for a second... but that's all it takes, she realises its comfortable, and genuinely considers just staying there because all this effort is too much, make us see how much she's struggling with depression, hint at how she barely left her room while struggling with it, have her realise she could just go home and not deal with all of this. Don't make the evil alternate version push it either, let her just vocalise all of this... and then... let her overcome it with either her own devices or have Theo appear to help. When you do that, it allows the character we're seeing not only express their experience, but also makes the later scenes feel more real. You're literally showing not telling. I appreciate the wanted to share how it felt for them, but I think the way the depression aspect was handled, does trivialize depression for the character, as it doesn't reflect the characters story we've been SHOWN up to that point, and instead now we're being told, "Hey, also... this." Sorry for the all over the shop post, it's mostly text to speech while I cut up fruit and prep for dinner hahaha It's not a perfect accurate example, but I hope it makes more sense as to why I think that scene feels inauthentic.
@@EljayIsHere Hope you continue playing this game and try to collect 3A golden (berry for clearing the level deathless) I have it collected it but I was seriously starting to lose my sanity after dying to some moving bs for what felt like a bilion times. good luck.
I really appreciate you pointing out how pushing a single metaphor does more harm than good. For me, depression never felt like sinking, or an ocean, or an abyss - it was more like being separated from everyone else by this wall of foggy glass that made connection impossible. It truly is different for everyone.
Ahh I remember playing this game in college. Going through all the B-sides and then C-sides was some of the most rewarding skill development I've had in any game. I still have a recording of when I did the dashless wall climb for the golden strawberry in level 1.
I understand how the hearts can be difficult/incredibly annoying to get, you can, however, also get them from doing B side if you'd prefer that, its what I did before I hit chapter 9 which requires either all the C sides or some of the A side hearts as well. Its also totally fair to just skip through to grab hearts from B sides if you'd rather not challenge them or do it later, but I do recommend doing them first as the difficulty spike to chapter 8-9 is pretty big. Of course you can also drop the game, which is totally fine if you think you've gotten all you want out of it :)
I'm tossing it up at the moment :) I really liked the platforming, I just am struggling with the idea of going from Chapter 7 and the sheer amazing quality of platforming, back to Chapter 1 where its basics obviously, while also having to watch guides to find the things. I want to, but it really will just be how it feels when I sit down to try. :)
@@EljayIsHere if you want to do 9 then you must MUST beat the b sides. 9 is the hardest level in the base game, which is a HUGE jump from just 7B so not doing the B sides might be a bad idea.
tbh i wouldn't drop the game or suggest others to do so. the struggle is an integral part of this game's messsage and it's all worth it for the absolute EXPERIENCE that chapter 9 is. if it gets too difficult, he should use assist mode instead of dropping the game. as the game itself say, "it"s ok to ask for help".
It's very interesting to see the order you went about the game. I found the b and c sides immediately and went through them before going to the next level rather consistently. I was also looking for every strawberry at the time so it came pretty naturally I'd think.
I hope you stream Strawberry Jam as well! Btw you can always use the easier modes in the settings if you want to make faster progress Or you can just play Celeste for a decade :) it’s a fun game to pick up and play
So, I was talking to some Celeste players and one of them said Assist Mode is amazing, but its fatal flaw is people being too stubborn to use it... and well... here I am hahaha being too stubborn!
@@EljayIsHerehonestly I’d advise you not to use it unless you genuinely start to hate the game because the harder rooms in the game feel extremely rewarding to do legit
@@Trees7420 accessibility options are there to make the game more accessible for people struggling on the game, its still just as valid to do a game on a lower difficulty setting than it is to do the game on a higher one :) of course it's up to the player to use them, but it's also up to the player to not use them
1A - beautiful (almost a tutorial still) 2A - more real challenge, introduces the other main character 3A - horrific i will never play that thing again 4A - dreamy with fair difficulty 5A - didn't hate it, but it was repetitive a lot 6A - my favorite level, where Madeline just speaks her mind for once and we learn more about her 7A - the most fun by far and very rewarding
The joke is that nothing can live up to the platforming anymore because this was so good :) The intro on this one is probably a bit too subtle this time but, "Platformers are normally like this, not as insane and amazing as this."
My bad for messing it up! Its becoming sort've a series on the channel, and I did try a different title this time but sadly clicks didn't happen, so went back to the series format and its picking up again, so part of why its confusing
The majority of the hearts and cassettes aren't actually hidden too deeply, the main thing is just going into these levels with the mindset of sniffing out secrets. Since you didn't know they existed, you weren't looking for the few suspicious gaps, nooks, and cracks that you'll probably easily notice on a quick once-over now. You can do it!
You're the first to say they're not that hidden or hard! Wow! Everyone else has said they've needed guides, and the vast majority said they never saw a single one on their first playthrough.
@@EljayIsHere cassettes aren’t that hard to find (about the same as the better hidden strawberries imo). Hearts on the other hand… I needed a guide for a few, but a decent portion of them are totally findable without.
@@EljayIsHere yeah I mean the hearts are not that hard if you look hard enough, besideds 2a which is kinda mean and 6a which you need knowledge from 1a heart to do but getting the 1a ,3a 5a and 7a hearts is super easy and the 4a heart is the easiest if you know a refrence to an older game, and even then you get hearts from b sides so it’s really not bad at all especially because 1b and 2b are free
i think the thing is that the game is specifically about the developers experience (even indirectly or by accident at times), and was meant to portray that. it also 'happens' to work for a very, very large audience of people as well. it's praised a lot as the game for that, but it's almost necessary to go in informed about mental health first, because of the you have with it. it's supposed to portray a story, not to explain the one thing this is for everyone. your issue is definitely reasonable to have, but i don't think it's the games fault as much as it's marketing from reviewers. good video.
Hey! Just copying my reply to someone else who mentioned this :) I actually read that interview during scripting where the dev says this, and I think the snag is that drawing on their own experience VS what is shown in game is where the inauthenticity appears. Our devs own experience is absolutely valid to include, but the character needs to also have a build up or story that connects to that experience. By that point of the game, our heroine has journeyed to a mountain, climbed the entire thing almost, made friends, battled her inner self, gone through horrifying experiences as those new friends were put in danger, and genuinely done amazing things, all while battling through anxiety which, to give credit, is really well represented mostly due to the subtlety of the representation. Now, people with depression CAN DO amazing things and in fact some of the greatest art is from them, but the issue is the self doubt, and other "hints" shown in the games lead up to that scene don't really reflect or connect with how it's described by our main character. If you look at Bo Burnham's Inside, you watch a man create amazing things, while genuinely falling into disarray, unshaven, unclean, unshowered, he still scales his mountain but you can see how bad it's gotten, and when he says how awful he feels or when it seems like he will quit, it isn't glamorous or beautiful, you can't romanticise Bo Burnhams state in that piece of art, it's a genuine reflection of trying to make progress while depressed (and if you do romanticize it, well... that's wild) Compared to our main character and their scene, they're sat under beautiful twinkling stars, as they're given endless complements by their new friend they just saved, being told their a good person, remind them of their high achieving sister, they crack jokes about drinking and getting mad on the internet. At no point up until now, did I ever believe our heroine was going to turn back, or that she felt truly like she couldn't reach the top, it's always pushed that she's so stubborn and spiteful, she's going to reach the top, refusing to break her own promises again. All of this, and especially that scene, you can and people do romanticise, because it's portrayed as beautiful, and powerful. If they'd included even 1 earlier scene that was more focused on depression, rather than anxiety, I think it would make more sense, a genuine moment where you think she isn't going to make it because she's struggling with depression, because again, practically every time her inner voice belittles her and says she can't and needs to turn back... she just shuts it down, and argues that she can and will, or has to out of spite. Put her in the Hotel of Chapter 3 and give me an entire scene where she sits down on a bed just... for a second... but that's all it takes, she realises its comfortable, and genuinely considers just staying there because all this effort is too much, make us see how much she's struggling with depression, hint at how she barely left her room while struggling with it, have her realise she could just go home and not deal with all of this. Don't make the evil alternate version push it either, let her just vocalise all of this... and then... let her overcome it with either her own devices or have Theo appear to help. When you do that, it allows the character we're seeing not only express their experience, but also makes the later scenes feel more real. You're literally showing not telling. I appreciate the wanted to share how it felt for them, but I think the way the depression aspect was handled, does trivialize depression for the character, as it doesn't reflect the characters story we've been SHOWN up to that point, and instead now we're being told, "Hey, also... this." Sorry for the all over the shop post, it's mostly text to speech while I cut up fruit and prep for dinner hahaha It's not a perfect accurate example, but I hope it makes more sense as to why I think that scene feels inauthentic.
@@EljayIsHere oh yeah i see what you mean. i'm gonna have another playthrough of the game and think about it. it's been a while since i really read the story, and might be the first time going in with the intent of analyzing it.
going through the game from the start and reading the dialogue with the purpose of looking for something is a little sketchy, but idk how else to do it. ch1: "ugh im exhausted. this might have been a mistake." (ignoring chapter two, although personally i see that all as backing her up just fine. especially stuff like "you are not a mountain climber") ch3: "i just wanted to help" (chapter 4 is really just about anxiety at the end, and thats it) ch5: "look in the mirror, all of this is you", "youre in control here, not me", "you deserve this", "i hope that selfie was worth it", "and this temple is showing you what im really like" and "if this temples really showing what im like, then i deserve this, dont i?" (the last 3 from madeline to theo), i see the seekers in general as a manifestation of depression specifically, constantly chasing her she is more than willing to help other people, but when anything goes wrong, she blames herself, and it only adds to the issues causing the temple/mountain to manifest the way it does around her. badeline certainly has anger issues, and considering that is literally madeline, its clear she has pretty intense anger issues too. she's getting mad at herself and others far too easily, and her personality in general is stubborn rather than patient for a reason. ch6: "i cant stop thinking about dumb crap that doesnt matter. my brain fixates on these stupid things that happened forever ago. i should be over them. none of it even matters... im good at keeping up appearances, but the truth is im hardly holding it together." the whole buildup to the ocean metaphor is describing it before you even get there. and then she confronts herself, blames it on herself all over again, and falls down the mountain. she falls into a major depressive episode, as i see it), backed up again by the conversation with granny in the middle of the chapter. for her to get through, she needs the help of theo, and her own stubborn personality to get through. its just how she is. "you expect me to trust you" "none of this would have happened if you had listened to me" and at the end of it, she fights to heal and repairs herself because she's stubborn enough to get through it. its very convenient, but its a video game and its difficult to make it as complex as it needs to be. theres still a little resistance from badeline, but of course it works out. also she at the end of the chapter, theo says "let me hold your bag" and she says "good idea". a similar thing happened in ch3 where oshiro offered to hold her bag, but she denies him. you could see this as improvement. i think theyre just different people and it isnt necessarily a sign of that, but it wouldnt be wrong to interpret it that way either. also chapter 6 being called reflection works really well. she reflects on herself, her literal reflection is a huge part of the story, and its a chapter with a lot of reflective water. in summit, shes very obviously worried and still holding her anxious and hurtful thoughts, but she is a lot less pushy about getting better. "how are you feeling?" "im fine, just waiting for something to go wrong" "no matter what happens, i'll be right here with you." "you know whats really scary? im starting to believe you." "nice job back there." "look at you! ms. positivity over here. youre so supportive." "dont push your luck." the ch3 section has badeline apologizing about what she did to oshiro. in ch4, madeline starts getting very worried about making it again, but badeline steps in to be positive. a complete 180 from her personality earlier in the game. then in the ch5 part, she has the big talk with herself. both sides of her come to terms with what may happen, that they'll fail, and its okay. madeline solved her problem for real. but in the end, she reaches the summit, and takes a moment to finally rest, and its good. i think youre as right as you can be about something this subjective. chapter 6 is her very nearly giving up, but if they had put an earlier scene or something like that, it would have been incredibly helpful. when im looking for it, i can see chapter 5 as that sort of thing, but it just doesnt quite work because the game sorta forces her to have all the support she needs (which is pretty much just convenient game stuff, to me). i think if you quit the game at any point, thats extremely symbolic about madelines story, even if theres no "end the story right here because im done with the game" button in the menu or something, and that its intentional for that to be the point + why the game is as hard as it is. its perfectly valid to think the game tells you before it shows you in this case, and i think thats more of a flaw in the story telling than anything else. im sorry this is so bad and rambly. i want to think i got everything across, even though half of it is just quoting the game, but its a bit much to organize it right now and if i dont get it out now, i dont know if i ever will.
Chapter 3 is indeed a pretty large difficulty spike, but chapters after it are not easier (maybe with the exception of golden ridge, but it isn’t easier by a lot). It is just that beating chapter 3 gives you a massive skill boost.
But that's the issue right, its the same problem as the very end of the game. You shouldn't be forced to go from high skill, high difficulty levels back to what is or even feels far easier. When you beat Chapter 7, you get told, "Hey go collect hearts lmao" and are forced to go from the best platforming, and even some of the most difficult to the basic first chapter. Same concept, Chapter 3 as a difficulty spike feels out of place because it makes everything before it seem trivial, and everything after seem easier.
Lmao! It wasn’t that it was insanely difficult, it’s still beatable, I just didn’t like the jump made the earlier levels feel trivial and the later levels feel less difficult. I think I was also waiting for a bit more of a story beat around her depression in that scene, would’ve been cool to have her doubt and consider the idea of staying in the penthouse because it was comfy and nice, why bother continuing, etc
Lol I just finished my playtest for this game as part of my own research. Only played until the end of chapter 3 but I did chapter 2's B-Side first and compared to that, chapter 3 was a minor inconvenience. Hearing you say it was an insane spike feels hilarious. I'm really hoping to finish Celeste sometime though, really fun game. I'm probably not touching any more B-sides though lmao.
@@EljayIsHerebased off of most playthroughs I see, B sides for the first 5 kinda fit with the normal games progression. 1a, 2a, 1b, 3a, 2b so on until after beating 5b. It works really good for making you not feel behind on anything, while still having some difficulty. By yes the C sides are almost impossible in comparison to the normal game, Also 6b - 8B are comparable to the c sides so that’s why I didn’t mention them earlier
The sheer amount of time required to collect all the hearts is far larger than the actual game due to their design. And making them so obscure that most players never collect a single one on their first playthrough means forcing players to play the enter game from scratch, + the added time of hunting and trying to actually beat the challenge each heart presents. After talking to Celeste players, so far I’ve not met anyone who could find hearts in their first playthrough, or who didn’t need a guide when they went back to collect them. Bonus or extra end game content can be locked behind collectables that isn’t an issue, however the way this one has been designed is incredibly unfriendly to the player, however if they’d made it that strawberries unlocked the end game content then every player could easily try the end game content and it would actually give the strawberries a reason to exist. The short answer? Being forced to play the entire game again, while watching guides is an incredibly unfun experience, but it seems that’s literally the recommendation if people want to play the end game content, I don’t have 5-10 hours to devote to that, but I’d be happy to put that time into trying brutally difficult new end game content.
@@EljayIsHere i found several blue hearts on my first playthrough, but i guess im at an advantage cuz ive played smb 3 before? i can see how someone would say some of the blue hearts are obscure, but you could probably get two red hearts in about an hour or so from 1 and 2 b-side. there are 24 hearts in the game and you only need 4 to get into 8A
@@EljayIsHerereally? Nobody found any in their first playthrough. Without watching guides I got everyone except for 6 and 5 because of how dumb they are to find. Here’s a hint on the first one so you don’t have to watch guides, pay attention to the color of the birds. Second one I found cause I was playing around with a silly glitch I found where if you dash into a new screen your dash refreshes and you can go up forever like this (this is a hint btw)
@@EljayIsHere It's the best puzzle precision platformer, ever. At least, in my opinion. Sometimes I've gone as far as saying it is the best video game.
I think you just haven't played enough platformers. There are plenty of other platformer games out there that are just as good as this one. For example, you should try Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze.
My back catalogue is too big man, not even including my 108 wishlisted that I curate down to under 100 every week lmao its a long time before I get any rank anywhere
@EljayIsHere yeaa having a big backlog isnt anything new Your not finishing all that anytime soon So *play it* It also just got on switch so there is no reason not to do so Also feel free to watch foekoe's video on it
I always looked at Celeste and got interested as I really like these kinds of platform games, but I refuse to play it because of the choice from the developers to cram the "meaning" behind or even at the forefront of the game. I hate when developers think "games can't just be fun, let's make people think and connect with the player, games are suppose to have meaning", so I just acknowledge it's a good platformer and move on with my life. Not having any connection with the struggle the developers try to reflect onto the main character kinda ruins the whole game for me, I don't really want to have the game stop every few levels and say " oh you were having fun? I'm sorry this is the time for you to think and feel, not have fun".
Do you not like most story games then? Not trying to say that you're wrong, just curious since if I understood you correctly then many games with stories are just off the table for you
god forbid creators in an art form tailor-made for creating a wide variety of experiences choose to use their creations to allow players to experience a variety of different things
You phrased this as if the story was an afterthought, just something to fill space or fill a quota. Celeste’s story is entirely intrinsic to the game. Without the story, the game would not exist. It makes perfect sense to want to play games that are purely gameplay if that’s what you like, but it seems like you think the developers made a mistake in adding a story. Celeste is an art piece, a metaphorical autobiography of its creators. To say that the game would be better off without the story is a misunderstanding of the purpose of the game itself.
Glad to hear you enjoyed the game for the most part. I admit I used a collectable guide to get everything in one run as some of the cassettes & hearts are well hidden. They unlock the B-sides and C-sides which make the normal game feel like a breeze in comparison!
Before people get angry, please remember, 1. I absolutely loved the game, and will stream collecting the hearts. 2. Our individual life experience colour how we experience media, meaning certain tropes, stories, and concepts are going to be amazing for some, but frustrating for others. 3. My personal experience doesn't in anyway diminish your experience.
Can you tell I'm terrified to give even the slightest personal critique to a beloved game? lmao
You're 100% correct that it doesn't have to hit the same for everyone, and it's unfortunate that part of the story didn't do it for you.
For what it's worth, I looked up an interview with Maddy Thorson on Kotaku from when the game released, and she said "Our top priorities were to tell a story that meant something to us and explore these topics from a individual perspective, to draw players into this world with these characters we grew to love ... Our intention going in wasn’t to represent mental illness in general, or to make a ‘how to deal with depression’ guide, and we didn’t think to consult professionals on the topic ... Making sure we didn’t trivialize the problems our characters were grappling with was a big concern for us"
So I honestly think they were drawing on their own experiences and not trying to generalise depression, it just is different from your experience, and as you say it's impossible to appeal to everyone
I actually read that interview during scripting, and I think the snag is that drawing on their own experience VS what is shown in game is where the inauthenticity appears. Our devs own experience is absolutely valid to include, but the character needs to also have a build up or story that connects to that experience.
By that point of the game, our heroine has journeyed to a mountain, climbed the entire thing almost, made friends, battled her inner self, gone through horrifying experiences as those new friends were put in danger, and genuinely done amazing things, all while battling through anxiety which, to give credit, is really well represented mostly due to the subtlety of the representation.
Now, people with depression CAN DO amazing things and in fact some of the greatest art is from them, but the issue is the self doubt, and other "hints" shown in the games lead up to that scene don't really reflect or connect with how it's described by our main character. If you look at Bo Burnham's Inside, you watch a man create amazing things, while genuinely falling into disarray, unshaven, unclean, unshowered, he still scales his mountain but you can see how bad it's gotten, and when he says how awful he feels or when it seems like he will quit, it isn't glamorous or beautiful, you can't romanticise Bo Burnhams state in that piece of art, it's a genuine reflection of trying to make progress while depressed (and if you do romanticize it, well... that's wild)
Compared to our main character and their scene, they're sat under beautiful twinkling stars, as they're given endless complements by their new friend they just saved, being told their a good person, remind them of their high achieving sister, they crack jokes about drinking and getting mad on the internet. At no point up until now, did I ever believe our heroine was going to turn back, or that she felt truly like she couldn't reach the top, it's always pushed that she's so stubborn and spiteful, she's going to reach the top, refusing to break her own promises again. All of this, and especially that scene, you can and people do romanticise, because it's portrayed as beautiful, and powerful.
If they'd included even 1 earlier scene that was more focused on depression, rather than anxiety, I think it would make more sense, a genuine moment where you think she isn't going to make it because she's struggling with depression, because again, practically every time her inner voice belittles her and says she can't and needs to turn back... she just shuts it down, and argues that she can and will, or has to out of spite.
Put her in the Hotel of Chapter 3 and give me an entire scene where she sits down on a bed just... for a second... but that's all it takes, she realises its comfortable, and genuinely considers just staying there because all this effort is too much, make us see how much she's struggling with depression, hint at how she barely left her room while struggling with it, have her realise she could just go home and not deal with all of this. Don't make the evil alternate version push it either, let her just vocalise all of this... and then... let her overcome it with either her own devices or have Theo appear to help.
When you do that, it allows the character we're seeing not only express their experience, but also makes the later scenes feel more real. You're literally showing not telling.
I appreciate the wanted to share how it felt for them, but I think the way the depression aspect was handled, does trivialize depression for the character, as it doesn't reflect the characters story we've been SHOWN up to that point, and instead now we're being told, "Hey, also... this."
Sorry for the all over the shop post, it's mostly text to speech while I cut up fruit and prep for dinner hahaha It's not a perfect accurate example, but I hope it makes more sense as to why I think that scene feels inauthentic.
@@EljayIsHere that does actually make a lot of sense, you have changed my mind hahaha
@@EljayIsHere would you like a hint for any of the hearts
I really appreciate your vulnerability with those personal stories, they are very relatable
the hatred with chapter 3 is very real
Am I not alone?!
@@EljayIsHere Hope you continue playing this game and try to collect 3A golden (berry for clearing the level deathless)
I have it collected it but I was seriously starting to lose my sanity after dying to some moving bs for what felt like a bilion times. good luck.
@@pavelmatusu44573ag is rough lol
@@EljayIsHere3A is pretty annoying to speedrun
I am one of the chapter 3 fans, chapter 4 was harder imo. It was really fun to do in the least amount of dashes possible.
I really appreciate you pointing out how pushing a single metaphor does more harm than good. For me, depression never felt like sinking, or an ocean, or an abyss - it was more like being separated from everyone else by this wall of foggy glass that made connection impossible. It truly is different for everyone.
Thank you for sharing, I’m glad it connected with you :)
Ahh I remember playing this game in college. Going through all the B-sides and then C-sides was some of the most rewarding skill development I've had in any game. I still have a recording of when I did the dashless wall climb for the golden strawberry in level 1.
I understand how the hearts can be difficult/incredibly annoying to get, you can, however, also get them from doing B side if you'd prefer that, its what I did before I hit chapter 9 which requires either all the C sides or some of the A side hearts as well. Its also totally fair to just skip through to grab hearts from B sides if you'd rather not challenge them or do it later, but I do recommend doing them first as the difficulty spike to chapter 8-9 is pretty big. Of course you can also drop the game, which is totally fine if you think you've gotten all you want out of it :)
I'm tossing it up at the moment :) I really liked the platforming, I just am struggling with the idea of going from Chapter 7 and the sheer amazing quality of platforming, back to Chapter 1 where its basics obviously, while also having to watch guides to find the things.
I want to, but it really will just be how it feels when I sit down to try. :)
@@EljayIsHere if you want to do 9 then you must MUST beat the b sides. 9 is the hardest level in the base game, which is a HUGE jump from just 7B so not doing the B sides might be a bad idea.
In an ideal world I’d do them all and work my way through :) but also…. Plucky Squire releases soon, and Frost Punk 2 hahaha
tbh i wouldn't drop the game or suggest others to do so. the struggle is an integral part of this game's messsage and it's all worth it for the absolute EXPERIENCE that chapter 9 is. if it gets too difficult, he should use assist mode instead of dropping the game. as the game itself say, "it"s ok to ask for help".
@@xXMindSoulXxReal gamers don't use assist mode
0:22 WRONG, grandmaster time
It's very interesting to see the order you went about the game. I found the b and c sides immediately and went through them before going to the next level rather consistently. I was also looking for every strawberry at the time so it came pretty naturally I'd think.
C side?
I hope you stream Strawberry Jam as well!
Btw you can always use the easier modes in the settings if you want to make faster progress
Or you can just play Celeste for a decade :) it’s a fun game to pick up and play
So, I was talking to some Celeste players and one of them said Assist Mode is amazing, but its fatal flaw is people being too stubborn to use it... and well... here I am hahaha being too stubborn!
@@EljayIsHerehonestly I’d advise you not to use it unless you genuinely start to hate the game because the harder rooms in the game feel extremely rewarding to do legit
I likely won't use it, the satisfaction is genuinely the selling point so It would undermine it
@@EljayIsHere I agree! Game forever!
@@Trees7420 accessibility options are there to make the game more accessible for people struggling on the game, its still just as valid to do a game on a lower difficulty setting than it is to do the game on a higher one :)
of course it's up to the player to use them, but it's also up to the player to not use them
Eljay, I really can't watch your videos without headphones, can I?
No idea what you mean, I’m wholesome and cozy
1A - beautiful (almost a tutorial still)
2A - more real challenge, introduces the other main character
3A - horrific i will never play that thing again
4A - dreamy with fair difficulty
5A - didn't hate it, but it was repetitive a lot
6A - my favorite level, where Madeline just speaks her mind for once and we learn more about her
7A - the most fun by far and very rewarding
What bout Farewell and Core?
I don't get it. Why did it ruin platformers for you?
The joke is that nothing can live up to the platforming anymore because this was so good :) The intro on this one is probably a bit too subtle this time but, "Platformers are normally like this, not as insane and amazing as this."
@@EljayIsHere Oh I see, it makes sense now : >
My bad for messing it up! Its becoming sort've a series on the channel, and I did try a different title this time but sadly clicks didn't happen, so went back to the series format and its picking up again, so part of why its confusing
The majority of the hearts and cassettes aren't actually hidden too deeply, the main thing is just going into these levels with the mindset of sniffing out secrets. Since you didn't know they existed, you weren't looking for the few suspicious gaps, nooks, and cracks that you'll probably easily notice on a quick once-over now. You can do it!
You're the first to say they're not that hidden or hard! Wow! Everyone else has said they've needed guides, and the vast majority said they never saw a single one on their first playthrough.
@@EljayIsHere cassettes aren’t that hard to find (about the same as the better hidden strawberries imo). Hearts on the other hand… I needed a guide for a few, but a decent portion of them are totally findable without.
@@EljayIsHere yeah I mean the hearts are not that hard if you look hard enough, besideds 2a which is kinda mean and 6a which you need knowledge from 1a heart to do but getting the 1a ,3a 5a and 7a hearts is super easy and the 4a heart is the easiest if you know a refrence to an older game, and even then you get hearts from b sides so it’s really not bad at all especially because 1b and 2b are free
As someone who has beaten The Bs Cs and Farewell I can relate to the chapter 3 struggle however you have to agree SCATTERED AND LOST SLAPS
Oh the entire sound track is amazing, I had an entire segment about it that I cut because I wanted to keep the video focused
Oh I listen to the entire ost all the time
i think the thing is that the game is specifically about the developers experience (even indirectly or by accident at times), and was meant to portray that. it also 'happens' to work for a very, very large audience of people as well. it's praised a lot as the game for that, but it's almost necessary to go in informed about mental health first, because of the you have with it. it's supposed to portray a story, not to explain the one thing this is for everyone. your issue is definitely reasonable to have, but i don't think it's the games fault as much as it's marketing from reviewers. good video.
Hey! Just copying my reply to someone else who mentioned this :)
I actually read that interview during scripting where the dev says this, and I think the snag is that drawing on their own experience VS what is shown in game is where the inauthenticity appears. Our devs own experience is absolutely valid to include, but the character needs to also have a build up or story that connects to that experience.
By that point of the game, our heroine has journeyed to a mountain, climbed the entire thing almost, made friends, battled her inner self, gone through horrifying experiences as those new friends were put in danger, and genuinely done amazing things, all while battling through anxiety which, to give credit, is really well represented mostly due to the subtlety of the representation.
Now, people with depression CAN DO amazing things and in fact some of the greatest art is from them, but the issue is the self doubt, and other "hints" shown in the games lead up to that scene don't really reflect or connect with how it's described by our main character. If you look at Bo Burnham's Inside, you watch a man create amazing things, while genuinely falling into disarray, unshaven, unclean, unshowered, he still scales his mountain but you can see how bad it's gotten, and when he says how awful he feels or when it seems like he will quit, it isn't glamorous or beautiful, you can't romanticise Bo Burnhams state in that piece of art, it's a genuine reflection of trying to make progress while depressed (and if you do romanticize it, well... that's wild)
Compared to our main character and their scene, they're sat under beautiful twinkling stars, as they're given endless complements by their new friend they just saved, being told their a good person, remind them of their high achieving sister, they crack jokes about drinking and getting mad on the internet. At no point up until now, did I ever believe our heroine was going to turn back, or that she felt truly like she couldn't reach the top, it's always pushed that she's so stubborn and spiteful, she's going to reach the top, refusing to break her own promises again. All of this, and especially that scene, you can and people do romanticise, because it's portrayed as beautiful, and powerful.
If they'd included even 1 earlier scene that was more focused on depression, rather than anxiety, I think it would make more sense, a genuine moment where you think she isn't going to make it because she's struggling with depression, because again, practically every time her inner voice belittles her and says she can't and needs to turn back... she just shuts it down, and argues that she can and will, or has to out of spite.
Put her in the Hotel of Chapter 3 and give me an entire scene where she sits down on a bed just... for a second... but that's all it takes, she realises its comfortable, and genuinely considers just staying there because all this effort is too much, make us see how much she's struggling with depression, hint at how she barely left her room while struggling with it, have her realise she could just go home and not deal with all of this. Don't make the evil alternate version push it either, let her just vocalise all of this... and then... let her overcome it with either her own devices or have Theo appear to help.
When you do that, it allows the character we're seeing not only express their experience, but also makes the later scenes feel more real. You're literally showing not telling.
I appreciate the wanted to share how it felt for them, but I think the way the depression aspect was handled, does trivialize depression for the character, as it doesn't reflect the characters story we've been SHOWN up to that point, and instead now we're being told, "Hey, also... this."
Sorry for the all over the shop post, it's mostly text to speech while I cut up fruit and prep for dinner hahaha It's not a perfect accurate example, but I hope it makes more sense as to why I think that scene feels inauthentic.
@@EljayIsHere oh yeah i see what you mean. i'm gonna have another playthrough of the game and think about it. it's been a while since i really read the story, and might be the first time going in with the intent of analyzing it.
going through the game from the start and reading the dialogue with the purpose of looking for something is a little sketchy, but idk how else to do it.
ch1: "ugh im exhausted. this might have been a mistake."
(ignoring chapter two, although personally i see that all as backing her up just fine. especially stuff like "you are not a mountain climber")
ch3: "i just wanted to help"
(chapter 4 is really just about anxiety at the end, and thats it)
ch5: "look in the mirror, all of this is you", "youre in control here, not me", "you deserve this", "i hope that selfie was worth it", "and this temple is showing you what im really like" and "if this temples really showing what im like, then i deserve this, dont i?" (the last 3 from madeline to theo),
i see the seekers in general as a manifestation of depression specifically, constantly chasing her
she is more than willing to help other people, but when anything goes wrong, she blames herself, and it only adds to the issues causing the temple/mountain to manifest the way it does around her.
badeline certainly has anger issues, and considering that is literally madeline, its clear she has pretty intense anger issues too. she's getting mad at herself and others far too easily, and her personality in general is stubborn rather than patient for a reason.
ch6: "i cant stop thinking about dumb crap that doesnt matter. my brain fixates on these stupid things that happened forever ago. i should be over them. none of it even matters... im good at keeping up appearances, but the truth is im hardly holding it together." the whole buildup to the ocean metaphor is describing it before you even get there. and then she confronts herself, blames it on herself all over again, and falls down the mountain. she falls into a major depressive episode, as i see it), backed up again by the conversation with granny in the middle of the chapter.
for her to get through, she needs the help of theo, and her own stubborn personality to get through. its just how she is.
"you expect me to trust you"
"none of this would have happened if you had listened to me"
and at the end of it, she fights to heal and repairs herself because she's stubborn enough to get through it. its very convenient, but its a video game and its difficult to make it as complex as it needs to be. theres still a little resistance from badeline, but of course it works out.
also she at the end of the chapter, theo says "let me hold your bag" and she says "good idea". a similar thing happened in ch3 where oshiro offered to hold her bag, but she denies him. you could see this as improvement. i think theyre just different people and it isnt necessarily a sign of that, but it wouldnt be wrong to interpret it that way either.
also chapter 6 being called reflection works really well. she reflects on herself, her literal reflection is a huge part of the story, and its a chapter with a lot of reflective water.
in summit, shes very obviously worried and still holding her anxious and hurtful thoughts, but she is a lot less pushy about getting better.
"how are you feeling?" "im fine, just waiting for something to go wrong" "no matter what happens, i'll be right here with you." "you know whats really scary? im starting to believe you."
"nice job back there." "look at you! ms. positivity over here. youre so supportive." "dont push your luck."
the ch3 section has badeline apologizing about what she did to oshiro.
in ch4, madeline starts getting very worried about making it again, but badeline steps in to be positive. a complete 180 from her personality earlier in the game.
then in the ch5 part, she has the big talk with herself. both sides of her come to terms with what may happen, that they'll fail, and its okay. madeline solved her problem for real.
but in the end, she reaches the summit, and takes a moment to finally rest, and its good.
i think youre as right as you can be about something this subjective. chapter 6 is her very nearly giving up, but if they had put an earlier scene or something like that, it would have been incredibly helpful. when im looking for it, i can see chapter 5 as that sort of thing, but it just doesnt quite work because the game sorta forces her to have all the support she needs (which is pretty much just convenient game stuff, to me). i think if you quit the game at any point, thats extremely symbolic about madelines story, even if theres no "end the story right here because im done with the game" button in the menu or something, and that its intentional for that to be the point + why the game is as hard as it is.
its perfectly valid to think the game tells you before it shows you in this case, and i think thats more of a flaw in the story telling than anything else.
im sorry this is so bad and rambly. i want to think i got everything across, even though half of it is just quoting the game, but its a bit much to organize it right now and if i dont get it out now, i dont know if i ever will.
Chapter 3 is indeed a pretty large difficulty spike, but chapters after it are not easier (maybe with the exception of golden ridge, but it isn’t easier by a lot). It is just that beating chapter 3 gives you a massive skill boost.
But that's the issue right, its the same problem as the very end of the game.
You shouldn't be forced to go from high skill, high difficulty levels back to what is or even feels far easier.
When you beat Chapter 7, you get told, "Hey go collect hearts lmao" and are forced to go from the best platforming, and even some of the most difficult to the basic first chapter.
Same concept, Chapter 3 as a difficulty spike feels out of place because it makes everything before it seem trivial, and everything after seem easier.
i love the constant hating on chapter 3. while i didnt find it all that difficult, i totally relate with hating on one thing in particular LOL
Lmao! It wasn’t that it was insanely difficult, it’s still beatable, I just didn’t like the jump made the earlier levels feel trivial and the later levels feel less difficult.
I think I was also waiting for a bit more of a story beat around her depression in that scene, would’ve been cool to have her doubt and consider the idea of staying in the penthouse because it was comfy and nice, why bother continuing, etc
The sub count for such high quality content is just criminal
Thanks! That means a lot! :)
Lol I just finished my playtest for this game as part of my own research. Only played until the end of chapter 3 but I did chapter 2's B-Side first and compared to that, chapter 3 was a minor inconvenience. Hearing you say it was an insane spike feels hilarious. I'm really hoping to finish Celeste sometime though, really fun game. I'm probably not touching any more B-sides though lmao.
B sides and c sides are FAR harder than the rest of the game, it’s only a spike if you play in order obviously.
@@EljayIsHerebased off of most playthroughs I see, B sides for the first 5 kinda fit with the normal games progression. 1a, 2a, 1b, 3a, 2b so on until after beating 5b. It works really good for making you not feel behind on anything, while still having some difficulty. By yes the C sides are almost impossible in comparison to the normal game, Also 6b - 8B are comparable to the c sides so that’s why I didn’t mention them earlier
2:04 I think you were made for everything except chapter 3 lol
how do you have time to play the game, but once the game gets deeper you dont have time to play it anymore? referencing 7:55
The sheer amount of time required to collect all the hearts is far larger than the actual game due to their design.
And making them so obscure that most players never collect a single one on their first playthrough means forcing players to play the enter game from scratch, + the added time of hunting and trying to actually beat the challenge each heart presents.
After talking to Celeste players, so far I’ve not met anyone who could find hearts in their first playthrough, or who didn’t need a guide when they went back to collect them.
Bonus or extra end game content can be locked behind collectables that isn’t an issue, however the way this one has been designed is incredibly unfriendly to the player, however if they’d made it that strawberries unlocked the end game content then every player could easily try the end game content and it would actually give the strawberries a reason to exist.
The short answer? Being forced to play the entire game again, while watching guides is an incredibly unfun experience, but it seems that’s literally the recommendation if people want to play the end game content, I don’t have 5-10 hours to devote to that, but I’d be happy to put that time into trying brutally difficult new end game content.
@EljayIsHere to each their own. Try out blasphemous If you haven't
DUDE I LITERALLY BOUGHT IT 2 DAYS AGO
@@EljayIsHere i found several blue hearts on my first playthrough, but i guess im at an advantage cuz ive played smb 3 before? i can see how someone would say some of the blue hearts are obscure, but you could probably get two red hearts in about an hour or so from 1 and 2 b-side. there are 24 hearts in the game and you only need 4 to get into 8A
@@EljayIsHerereally? Nobody found any in their first playthrough. Without watching guides I got everyone except for 6 and 5 because of how dumb they are to find.
Here’s a hint on the first one so you don’t have to watch guides, pay attention to the color of the birds.
Second one I found cause I was playing around with a silly glitch I found where if you dash into a new screen your dash refreshes and you can go up forever like this (this is a hint btw)
Thank you for the personal story! Love your vulnerability. Hope you’re doing well! Also, this game is great!
Thanks for the kind words!
I wish ragebait wasn’t on the internet but here we are
This isn't rage bait? Its saying the games so good, nothing will ever be able to compete for me
One of your best videos, in my opinion. Thank you for making this
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks man :)
fuckin
same
I've been saying that for months now.
Feeling seen hahaha
@@EljayIsHere It's the best puzzle precision platformer, ever. At least, in my opinion.
Sometimes I've gone as far as saying it is the best video game.
I think you just haven't played enough platformers. There are plenty of other platformer games out there that are just as good as this one. For example, you should try Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze.
I love DKC:TF, one of the best sound tracks ever made as well
'-'👍
crazy good video
Thank you :)
There is a combination of keys you can press in the prologue level to unlock all levels instantly
Wonderful video (and i just gotta say, perfect choice with the Kingdom music)
Best OST ever in my opinion!
w vid u next up
This applies to any game but pizza tower
Pizza tower ruined celeste for me
LMAO okay I'm listening!
@@EljayIsHere once you get your first p rank in that game
You will understand what im saying
My back catalogue is too big man, not even including my 108 wishlisted that I curate down to under 100 every week lmao its a long time before I get any rank anywhere
@EljayIsHere yeaa having a big backlog isnt anything new
Your not finishing all that anytime soon
So *play it*
It also just got on switch so there is no reason not to do so
Also feel free to watch foekoe's video on it
I always looked at Celeste and got interested as I really like these kinds of platform games, but I refuse to play it because of the choice from the developers to cram the "meaning" behind or even at the forefront of the game. I hate when developers think "games can't just be fun, let's make people think and connect with the player, games are suppose to have meaning", so I just acknowledge it's a good platformer and move on with my life. Not having any connection with the struggle the developers try to reflect onto the main character kinda ruins the whole game for me, I don't really want to have the game stop every few levels and say " oh you were having fun? I'm sorry this is the time for you to think and feel, not have fun".
Do you not like most story games then? Not trying to say that you're wrong, just curious since if I understood you correctly then many games with stories are just off the table for you
the cutscenes are skippable man
god forbid creators in an art form tailor-made for creating a wide variety of experiences choose to use their creations to allow players to experience a variety of different things
You phrased this as if the story was an afterthought, just something to fill space or fill a quota. Celeste’s story is entirely intrinsic to the game. Without the story, the game would not exist. It makes perfect sense to want to play games that are purely gameplay if that’s what you like, but it seems like you think the developers made a mistake in adding a story. Celeste is an art piece, a metaphorical autobiography of its creators. To say that the game would be better off without the story is a misunderstanding of the purpose of the game itself.
Me when I forget the skip cutscene button which just gets rid of all the story and Bassically just lets you just do platforming
Glad to hear you enjoyed the game for the most part. I admit I used a collectable guide to get everything in one run as some of the cassettes & hearts are well hidden. They unlock the B-sides and C-sides which make the normal game feel like a breeze in comparison!
Okay so.... I just watched a guide for the VERY first heart.... I think.... I am either doomed.... or need guides wtf
@@EljayIsHere Hahaha, yeah the puzzle to even make that one appear is very obscure 😅
@@Lockieezno not really, reflection is the worst one. I think 2 and 5 are also stupidly hidden
@@EljayIsHeretry the b sides if the crystal hearts aren’t doing it for you. You should realistically have most of the cassettes after beating 7