Every American President On The Political Compass
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- What if every American president took the political compass test? What is every president's ideology across the history of the United States, and where do they stand in the long history of US politics? From George Washington to Joe Biden, we'll see which U.S presidents are authoritarian, libertarian, right-wing, and left-wing.
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#politicalcompass #americanhistory #americanpolitics
Let me know what you think about these placements for the presidents.
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I know the political compass isn’t the best. A much better test is the Isidewith test.
It would’ve been nice to have the chart numbers more visible (or a Picture in Picture) for a zoomed look and the overall. Well done work though.
This is awesome, thank you, even if impossible to perfectly map, what a great visual on our movement and our machinations. As a nation.
Umm it's wild that the largest gap in ideologies at present, or so far, is consecutive, 45 & 46, and also very Present, like again This Year. And also then there was a mini coup. Lol that's a good sign right?
My favorites are prolly 3 of the 4 lib left, which i WANT to say are the most Christian in values, but then what's bill doing down there lol bill and Reagan are onerous to my palate.
So i revise and say maybe the Obama/Truman axis is the place to be. 33 & 44.
Also what's Grant about? Gotta check it. Biden, lbj, fdr an astute grouping. 29 & 30 might be the worst place to be? What do people think is the best home base.
Anyway
Thank you monsieur🎉
Presidents just the face. The ideology is in the Pentagon, and it's never changed. It never will change. REGARDLESS of who the potus is.
If the potus mattered, then the executive would carry the purse.
Which is why both parties are currently trying to eviscerate the presidency, and have potus by committee. While the 535 bring in a European style govt and ideology.
@@crusader2112there is no test that is good. isidewith has got some problems too, ( how the political definitions are based off of todays political landscape only).But it would be interesting to see how the different ones compare. I wish there was a metric that measures throughout time in a more universal manner. I think authoritarianism vs libertarianism is pretty universal but left vs right changes throughout time.
The dots were kinda hard to follow after the first few. If you were to do one of these again, I suggest you have more of a visual cue when the dots pop up, like a contracting circle or a red arrow to draw the eye to.
Agreed, my poor, old eyes struggled. A different color while being talked about would probably have helped.
Yeah, I was gunna make the same comment
props
Absolutely agree. It was hard to see and follow.
@@LouisWinthorpe3 I did the same thing.
I disagree with the bushes being on the libertarian scale in any capacity.
They are a shining example of Deep State Tyrants! 🤣🤣🤣
Two words: Patriot Act. That alone should bump Bush Jr. at the very least off the libertarian side.
He just looked at rhetoric and not their policies.
Probably because you have a low iq
and reagan
No way lil bro called Bush Jr. “Libertarian”
Thats what I thought to. No way Bush Sr and Reagan are in that column either.
He didn't call him libertarian though? And the political compass is meant to be a general framework to illustrate differences, it doesn't mean "oh, he's in bottom right, he's a libertarian." If it was then every president would just be in top blue but in different areas
Right,though that was Bush Jr approach during 2000 election.But he did opposite of what he promised
Yeah W and Obama should not have been in the libertarian sections at all. Their policies were much more authoritarian
Bush Jr definitely should be auth right, skewed a bit closer to the center economically. Patriot Act, No Child Left Behind, centralization of agencies under the DHS, creating the Real ID requirements for flights (that we still can’t properly implement today), etc. He was middle of the road economically, not necessarily pushing boundaries on privatization or deregulation but also not undertaking massive new social spending… He was the definition of status quo in that regard. But he was willing to pass some of the largest bailouts in history under the TARP Act. So that ought to immediately disqualify him from lib right if the massive increase in military spending, the ballooning deficits under him (was balanced under Clinton), and the post-9/11 legislation he authorized hasn’t already disqualified him.
Thomas Jefferson, overall, I think was the best president. There's no way I would put Bush in the purple or Obama in the green lol. Both were very authoritarian.
Big fan of Jefferson myself!
I like Ike and Lincoln
What makes you think that? The economic policy that stunted the country for years or the going to bat for the institution of slavers and potential raping of his slaves?
Jefferson>Adams. Alexander Hamilton approves this message!
Jefferson started the practice of opposition research, and slandering his opposition. It eventually backfired on him when the man he paid to spread rumors and scandals about political opponents asked for more money, Jefferson refused.
Shortly thereafter came the rumor the Thomas Jefferson had been having an affair with a black egress slave, and had several illegitimate children by her.
I would put Wilson into more of an authoritarian roll. He was the first president to have a secret police and he also imprisoned anti-war protestors.
Most presidents would do that in war time though
Which, ironically, the right today tries to shame him for. The Republicans were antiwar during World War I, but they were anything but pro-free speech. It was a mostly Republican/conservative Supreme Court that followed Wilson's lead.
By our standards today, the Founding Fathers were conservative. By the standards of their day, they were liberal. The Overton Window has shifted quite a bit since those days, and what defines conservative and liberal has changed since then. After a tour of Monticello, I realized Jefferson was some funky far out cat. Ben Franklin must have been a trip too.
In some regards the founding fathers were extreme communists. One considered a universal inheritance financed by an inheritance tax to precent an aristocracy like the one in great britain from getting too much power.
I watched the documentary on Benjamin Franklin and yeah he was quite the kid in his day.
Exactly, by today's standards Grant, Teddy, Taft, and even JFK would be placed right of center
Hamilton (Washington's intellectual bulldog) thought that the banking system was far too important to leave in the hands of private interests and should be owned by the American people and run by congress--an idea so leftist that it would make AOC blush. Thomas Paine proposed a 100% top marginal tax rate--Rights of Man table three and surrounding text--again AOC proposes a 57% top marginal tax rate--Paine is to the left of AOC here. Guy who made this video is a dope who needs to read some books before he blah, blah, blahs.
@@nashzahm JFK proposed a 57% top marginal tax rate--exactly the same rate that AOC proposes. And where would you place Eisenhower and his 91% top marginal tax rate and massive government funded building programs?
I feel like Wilson should be far higher on the authoritarian side
Could have new dots to be highlighted and have a different color and fade to normal when new one comes in
I can't stand Trump. That being said, I took the quiz based on how he actually is (and not based on what the deranged media/left sees him as, or the what the MAGA crowd sees him as). I've got him at 1.5 on the left/right, and at a -3.18 on the libertarian/authoritarian scale. People (wrongly) scream about him being a fascist or authoritarian, but he's far less authoritarian than the Bushes, Obama, and Biden.
Excellent points! He also somehow avoided either starting a new war or getting into an existing war--his best point along with the Dec. 2017 tax cut (temporary--some provisions expire on Dec. 31, 2024), and cutting some extreme regulations on small business and people. Good for you to also point out how deranged the Mockingbird Media has been as so obnoxious in one-way panting like a rabid dog only for the socialists-communist side!
Yeah, Trump was going to get us into ww3. However......
Okay, let's forget the fact that he literally called for suspending parts of the Constitution to remain in power, he banned bump stocks, he "allegedly" headed a plan to send fake electors to DC in order to maintain power.
He believes that he cannot be prosecuted for any criminal activities, even though the Constitution does not state that.
He said he believes in taking guns first, then due process.
One of his more well-known bills was a complete ban on Muslims entering the country, solely based on their religious beliefs. Every one of those actions drives him further and further into the top right corner.
He may not be a fascist, but he sure has emboldened the fascists in this country, and some of them sit in the House of Representatives currently.
I respect you for overcoming your biases in the name of the truth.
Suggestion: What if Harold Godwinson defeated William at Hastings?
It'd be interesting to imagine a world where the Normans never seized control of England, that wipes out a good lot of history afterward.
@@MonsieurDean yep
@@MonsieurDean what if William and the Normans not only conquered England but also the Kingdom of Norway? creating a Norman North Sea empire?
Anglo-Saxon England>>>Norman England
@@MonsieurDeanNo normans means no impetus for the Hundred Years War, which means no Crécy or Agincourt disrupting the noble houses, and no chevauchées decimating the French interior. This would see France have not only a much stronger heartland but also a more stable elite class, which probably would give them much more power to possibly exercise imperial ambitions well before the time of Napoleon, provided they could recover following the inevitable black death, since it wiped out 50% France in our time
Oh boy, this comment section is gonna be fun
This shows how truly based Calvin Coolidge was.
The Javier Melei of a century ago
@@dontcomply3976 LOVED Coolidge. He's my favorite president. He's very unsung because the "System" hated his guts. He also hated using government power if he didn't have to.
i now know where grover cleveland lies on the political compass. very cool!
He's literally you.
Also one of the late Robert Novak’s favorites (I cited Coolidge above). Don’t know if you remember him on the right on CNN’s Crossfire
Biden’s ideology is… well… I mean… look… if der.. no, forget it… Where was I again?
I no more think of myself as being as old as I am than a fly
It would've been helpful to put the names and numbers under each president. After the first 5-10, It's impossible to follow where the numbers are appearing on the grid.
Now, just hold on a minute there.
@@donwayne1357 Trump 2024!
Rock on!!! 🤘🏼 Trump 2024!
This is like a zoomed in version of the authoritarian right quadrant. However, it makes sense within the context of mainstream American politics
Yes, the meaning of political terms has changed dramatically over time. "Conservative" as we understand the word today dates only to the 1950s at the earliest, while "progressive" once had a socioeconomic overtone instead of a sociocultural one. "Liberal" went from meaning libertarian in the 19th century to populist throughout much of the 20th century to semi-libertarian in the last few decades.
it was pretty much necessary for Grant to become in dictator status. After the civil war and the failures of the Johnson administration, it was probably necessary that we need a strong authority to keep the South in check (by trying to preserve Lincoln's vision of reconstruction) and steer the nation forward
It's still funny that this chart makes him seem to be Josef Stalin or Mao Zedong. And John Adams is made to look not too far removed from Mussolini.
@@SeasideDetective2Alien and Sedition Acts
That actually wasn't Lincoln's vision of reconstruction
@@johnshep293 Exactly, though most Americans will still insist that Adams was far from being a fascist.
@@jakubpociecha8819 oh ok
Who could have guessed that John Adams would end up being the most based
He did say “Democracy has never been and never can be so durable as aristocracy or monarchy; but while it lasts, it is more bloody than either. Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself."
@@MonsieurDean again, based
@@MonsieurDean, that's actually pretty damn based. Didn't know Am*ricans (or Am*erican presidents, more precisely) could make such obvious and glaring observations about the world, considering that their country was founded on a l*beral revolution and thus a "trad, nationalistic" american typically adheres to the constituation and ideals drawn up back then, which is still just an earlier version of libaralism, opposing itself to based European imperialism, colonialism and monarchy.
John Adams did sign the Alien and Sedition Acts which made it illegal to criticize him. A blatantly unconstitutional law which was repealed under Jefferson.
He was known as honest John Adams.
Great concept for a video! You should do it comparing existing governments of different countries. It would be interesting to see where countries sit relative to each other.
You can see this by consulting the 2023 World Values Survey. Roughly speaking - and taking into account the relative positions of the Overton window in other political systems, of course - the Scandinavian countries would be fond of a president like Jimmy Carter (very small-"l" libertarian). North Africans, meanwhile, would prefer certain of our Founding Fathers (Washington and both Adamses, for example) for their traditionalism and (relative) authoritarianism. The Japanese would favor Kennedy and/or Clinton, Latin Americans someone like Van Buren, Buchanan, or (ironically enough) Polk, etc.
Also (now since I know you will see this!) very small accessibility request if you do repeat this concept - please can you make the dot flash a different colour or something when it’s first added. I kept having to pause the video to find the new biggest number
Graphic became impossible to follow. A pulsing icon while discussing a particular President would help the audience to follow along.
Kennedy and Truman were closer to New Deal than Neo Liberal. Deregulation aside, Dubya and Reagan, especially the former, were more authoritarian than libertarian. Obamacare was also the biggest social program since the Great Society too, so I'd put him slightly above the libertarian line.
Great video and topic.
I took this political compass quiz with this chart btw, and I really have huge issues with the wording of some of the questions, because a lot of it is worded in ways that everyone -- from the furthest left to the furthest right -- agrees with _if_ they read the wording carefully.
For example, it asks: "An advantage of a one-party state is that it is able to more easily pass legislation without political opposition" and it asks if you Agree/Strongly Agree or Disagree/Strongly Disagree... But I mean, reading the question word-for-word... Obviously I agree. That is just a fact. Everyone agrees with that. That doesn't mean it is _good_ to have a one-party state or that I think we should have a one-party state. But, yes, a one-party state passes legislation without political opposition... ??! That is just an objectively correct statement. The question should really be worded "Do you think a one-party state is a preferable system because it can more easily pass legislation?"
There are lots of other examples like this in the questions. You really have to purposely try to not read it very carefully, or try to think "What are they _trying_ to ask?" rather than "What are they literally asking?"
Despite the poorly worded questions it did conclude pretty accurately that I fall in the Right/Libertarian square, but barely... Really near the center of the chart. Just south and to the left of Van Buren #8.
The political compass test is generally regard as flawed due to the manner of questions it asks and what youve highlighted above. It also has a bias skew to drag people down and to the left on placement
That's a well known bug of the chart and nobody takes the chart seriously.
@@Joker22593 For good reason! lol but for real it would be a fun exercise if they just worded the questions properly. Could be an easy fix
@@Accuratetranslationservices The point is that the propositions aren't yes/no. They're value judgements. Consider that China is offering its system as the sane choice over corrupt and venal Western "democracies". Xi Jinping would definitely agree with the one-party state question.
I would consider the ability to pass regulations without opposition a disadvantage, not an advantage. Therefore I would disagree with it.
From the thumbnail, when did Hayden Christiansen become president?
When people ask me who my favorite President is I always say Coolidge and I would say 95% of the time they tell me they don’t know who that is. It’s great
Trump should be farther "south" in your chart, maybe even in the lower-right quadrant.
I agree. I don't think he truly belongs in the purple but pardoning a bunch of prisoners for drug possession, and working towards peace deals while not starting new wars definitely pushes him closer to the south and west. Banning bump stocks was pretty authoritarian though. He's hard to place.
Was banning bump stocks Trump's doing, or was it one of those things that happened while he was in office? I imagine his attention could not have been on every single thing that went on in the huge bureaucracy.@@jefftracy3771
Arguing that he should be allowed to have political opponents assassinated and not get in trouble unless impeached - very libertarian.
Did he actually argue for that, or was he joking, or exaggerating to make a point? I'd like to see full unedited transcript, and preferably see the full video. @@drachefly
@NigelIncubatorJones People like that never answer. They pull propaganda out of their ass and when called out for it, just disappear.
I wish you had the dots flashing for a second or two when they first popped up. I soon lost track.
Next time, pal!
What I find very interesting is 39-44 (right after Nixon with 37 and Ford who replaced Agnew at 38) all were on the Libertarian side. I guess you could call it a reaction of the nation overall to Nixon who was on the Authoritarian side (and abused the office). And then suddenly .. Pow we are back to Authoritarian .. strongly so .. for both Trump and Biden.
While it would be challenging since they were not in office, It would be interesting to see where the Candidates these men all ran against sat in the spectrum.
Obama was not libertarian
But the elder Bush briefly broke the streak.
My political compass has me as an extreme left wing libertarian. In other words. An anarchist
Coolidge really is the GOAT
I just think that it's important to note that the American Political Spectrum has moved greatly over the years. Someone who was "authoritarian left" 150 years ago moght not necessarily be when compared to today.
As someone who both watched you and Mr Beat, it was interesting to compare where you mapped the presidents at.
Definitely should have made the dots at the start of the video black and they grow lighter and ligher as more presidents are named so that the overall shifts in American executive politics could be more easily noted.
Might be a weird choice to some since he doesn't get that much attention, but I prefer Calvin Coolidge tbh.
In school they go over the roaring 20s, slightly, but leave Coolidge and his policies out of it. Mostly because they were affective. There would be too many people that would agree with him. Our liberal education system can't allow that. Must agree with their authoritarian system.
@@TriSticle And that's why I like him, since sometimes the simple answer to problems is do like King Bumi and do nothing. Things (such as people and the market) can often times sort themselves out without any help or interference from outside parties (especially Government).
Cool video! I made one of these too and agree with a lot of your placements, but my biggest disagreements would be how authoritarian you’ve placed Grant and Washington. From my perception, they should be much further south on the compass
I think Theodore Roosevelt wouldn’t be auth-left but would instead be auth-center or even a tad auth-right. He wasn’t really anti-business; he was fine with monopolies so long as they followed the rules, only going against ones blatantly ignoring laws
He would be considered on the left. Part of the reason for why he ran again was because he didn’t like Taft’s brand of conservatism, which was closer to modern day conservatives/Reagan.
Roosevelt was left. It's just that all the presidents now are so far left that we have to look very far in the distance towards the right to see the earlier presidents.
Wait, they’re all Authleft/Authright?
Always have been…
Somebody send this to Mr. Beat
most of this makes sense but saying that bush jr is a libertarian & that biden and johnson are farther left than fdr is nuts
All the best presidents are in the upper right quadrant
I think Wilson was more authoritarian, the sedition act among his use of the executive branch had him silently trying to be a dictator
He thought of himself more as a prime minister, who technically does hold more authority than the president of a republic.
I think Obama was far more autocratic than you graded him, but otherwise I think this is pretty good. Obama should be up in the new deal crowd.
Obama did use more government power than his immediate predecessors, but he really didn't invest heavily in any major domestic initiatives like a New Dealer would, ObamaCare is maybe the sole exception, and even that was a lackluster effort in the eyes of everyone. Much of his domestic policy was concentrated on social issues, as is par for the course of neo-liberals, as well as his foreign policy, which was largely aimed at maintaining the neo-liberal American balance of power set up under Clinton.
It would be interesting to add the historical ranking (best to worst) to the final chart as well. You'd need to make it easier to read though. Not just have two sets of numbers.
I was waiting for your take on Obama. He was the most liberal of all our presidents and probably the most authoritarian. He used executive orders to do whatever he wanted after the democrats lost control of Congress. Even when many of his executive orders were overturned by the Supreme Court he did not slow down. As a constitutional lawyer he knew that he was going against the Constitution but continued to do it anyway.
Idk man to say Theodore Roosevelt was auth left is a stretch. Being a militarist, jingoist, and somewhat of a white nationalist I’d say he falls further into auth-center or auth-right.
The political compass doesn't code those as right-wing, but "authoritarian." The left/right axis has to do with attitudes toward centralization of power and economic planning.
I don't think this test took foreign policy into account. If it had, there would be many more Presidents in the green quadrant.
And most white nationalists are libertarians, at least philosophically. They want other ethnicities to leave them alone, and are willing to return the favor.
To be fair being an Nationalist doesn't make you automatically on right. It's been plenty of left wing who were Nationalist and Racist.
@@tiredox3788 Historically, being a nationalist placed one on the left, because it meant one favored independence ("self-determination") and a sort of "separate but equal" status for all the nations of the world. The Axis dictators of World War II were the ones who perverted nationalism toward anti-democratic and imperialist ends (for example, Hitler annexing Czechoslovakia because he claimed the Bohemians were not truly Czech, but were culturally German).
Suggestion: Every presidential candidate and president on the political compass
William Jennings Bryan would be hard to place. I'd put him closest to Eisenhower, since both were socially conscious (liberal/centrist) but not particularly activist (authoritarian). If Bryan were alive today, he'd probably be in the Green party. He wouldn't like today's Democrats, and he'd like today's Republicans even less.
The benefit of being a centrist is you realize everyone has their own solutions to the world's problems, many individual acts are great; the problem with being a centrist is synthezing all the good without any of the bad, and keeping your coalition going to prevent the country falling back into ideological extremes.
Sitting on many fences allows one to learn which fences are most comfortable to sit on.
If you think individual acts are great which they are you might end up Libertarian which maximises individual rights
Being center is highly overrated. It's a way of getting more votes but really caves to survival of the fittest.
I do realise the overton window in the USA is skewed very far to the right. But outside of the USA, there is no way any American president who would fall to the left - FDR might fall on the centre left. But that's it.
What do you do with Truman, LBJ, Nixon (many liberal policies in big government expansion, as in the EPA, ending of the gold-dollar link in '71), Carter, Clinton, and Obama, plus our Old Man (#46)?
@@freeguy77 They were all capitalists. They ultimately attempted to perhaps regulate or reform capitalism, but none actually were anti-capitalist. I can see FDR being centre-left. But Clinton, Obama and Biden are actually pretty far to the right.
@@polkatronixx They were ANTI-Capitalists, and pro-SOCIALISTS. If they demanded BIGGER GOVERNMENT, and especially promoted WAR (Clinton, Obama, Biden) they were NOT far right. Not even close to right--they were wrong and extreme LEFT-wingey Socialist, WAR Hawks! Wake up, already!
Amazing! Thank you so much for doing this. Out of curiosity, where would you put RFK Jr? Or other non-Presidents like Hillary Clinton, John McCain, Al Gore, or John Kerry?
Obama on the libertarian side?
This was interesting, but a few suggestions: Have the name of the president and the number as a graphic to help the viewer. Also when a number is added, either make it blink or have it come in as a different color to make it easy to find, then make it the same color as the rest. I spent a lot of time trying to remember the president’s number, then looking for it. I did like the concept though.
Damn I guess less authoritarianism runs in my family then. Granted i think Martin Van Buren would be rolling in his grave if he saw what my political ideology is and most likely would frown upon it. Either way though he is a cool relative to have
Much better than that mr beat hack’s video
I would like to know how you see Trump being authoritarian? He allowed states to make their own decisions, like during COVID. He also was the first president to not get us into a new conflict in over 50 years. I see him as a center libertarian.
Bush-43 got the U.S. Government (not "we"--we are the people) into the mire of Iraq and Afghanistan wars (2003), which was barely 20 years ago: not 50! His war-monger dad (#41) got the U.S. Government into the first Iraq War (Jan. 1991), a wholly un-necessary war that cost more American soldiers' lives that were not worth losing over a border dispute between Iraq and Kuwait! As for Trump, he should be placed lower down, out of the Authoritarian quadrant, middle-right side, but into the Libertarian quadrant. The @Phi4ever poster (above) was another victim of the Mockingbird Media's one-way panting like a rabid dog for the extreme socialist/communist left-wing lunatics that want the Communists to takeover the U.S. after trying for the past 60 years starting with LBJ after his coup against #35 on Nov. 22, 1963!
Travel polices, very protectionist with trade, embargoes, anti free trade.
Yeah but there's also the little bit where he suggested suspending parts of the constitution in order to keep himself in power after he lost the 2020 election, the fake electric scheme that was put together in order to try to keep him in power, and let's not forget a ban on certain people entering the country solely due to their religious beliefs.
All of those actions drive him up into the top right corner.
His placement was actually quite generous.
He, as well as anybody who still supports him should be considered an enemy to the Constitution of the United States of America.
Can't wait to see where you put RFK Jr.
Although this is a pretty cool idea, I think placing our first few presidents on a scale of what we used today is a bit off. Line splitting left and right would honestly probably be much more to the left given the constant push that way ever since FDR honestly
.
I dunno much about any of the other Presidents but I read a bunch of Lincoln and I'd put him in the far left. He regularly quoted Marx and made remarks about his works. He agreed with Marx on a whole range of issues and read him frequently. And he was pretty open about his convictions concerning labor and revolution.
Some stuff is literally paraphrased from Marx´s Capital such as his message to the U.S. Congress, 3 December 1861 (On Labor and Capital).
“Labor is prior to and independent of capital, Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.”
Tell me what you think.
The idea of Lincoln and Marx being closely linked is a pervasive myth that simply isn’t true when you actually look into it. It’s often asserted that the two were pen pals but the extent of the interaction, if you can even call it that, between them is as follows:
-A collection of social activists in Europe that included Marx sent Lincoln a letter to congratulate him on his re-election and show their support for him in the war. Marx drafted it under a different name and his own is lower on the list of signers.
-A response was sent back written not by Lincoln but by a member of his administration Charles Adams, thanking them for their show of support and that the president hoped he would prove himself worthy of their confidence. It wasn’t even sent to Marx himself.
That's literally it. It can’t even be proven that Lincoln read that particular letter anymore than he did the other thousands of then he was at the time. Not to mention how despite attempts to attach themselves to Lincoln publicly in their private correspondences Marx and Friedrich Engels were actually quite critical of him and hardly considered him a fellow traveler ideologically. Here’s an example from a letter Marx sent to Engels dated September 10, 1862:
“The way in which the North is waging the war is none other than might be expected of a bourgeois republic, where humbug has reigned supreme for so long. The South, an oligarchy, is better suited to the purpose, especially an oligarchy where all productive labour devolves on the n-s and where the 4 million ‘white trash’ are flibustiers by calling. For all that, I’m prepared to bet my life on it that these fellows will come off worst, ‘Stonewall Jackson’ notwithstanding. It is, of course, possible that some sort of revolution will occur beforehand in the North itself.“
Later in another letter dated September 7, 1864 Marx would write:
“Lincoln has at his disposal considerable means for achieving election. (Needless to say, the peace proposals made by him are mere humbug.) The election of an opposition candidate would probably lead to a genuine revolution. Nevertheless, there is no mistaking the fact that during the next 8 weeks, in the course of which the matter will be decided pro tem, much will depend on military eventualities. This is undoubtedly the most critical moment since the beginning of the war. Once this has been shifted, Old Lincoln can blunder on to his heart’s content.”
Ironically, Marx and Engels were both excited by the ascent of Andrew Johnson to the presidency after Lincoln’s assassination. Marx would say in a letter dated May 1, 1865:
“Johnson is stern, inflexible, revengeful and as a former poor White has a deadly hatred of the oligarchy.”
Later in the same letter he’d say:
“He will make less fuss about these fellows, and, because of the treachery, he will find the temper of the North commensurate with his intentions.”
For his part, Engels would write in a response dated May 3, 1865:
“Johnson will insist on confiscation of the great estates, which will make the pacification and reorganisation of the South rather more acute. Lincoln would scarcely have insisted on it.”
As should be now clear, neither Marx nor Engels really saw Lincoln as a fellow traveler. At least not in the long run. At the end of the day both saw him as ultimately being a standard bourgeois politician at best. The idea that Lincoln was some kind of nascent crypto-socialist is tenuous and an example of historical revisionism. All of what Lincoln actually said about economic policy and class warfare is incompatible with socialism. Including these gems:
“The prudent, penniless beginner in the world labors for wages awhile, saves a surplus with which to buy tools or land for himself, then labors on his own account another while, and at length hires another new beginner to help him. This, say its advocates, is free labor-the just, and generous, and prosperous system, which opens the way for all, gives hope to all, and energy, progress, and improvement of condition to all.”
-From Lincoln’s address to the Wisconsin State Agricultural Society delivered September 30, 1859
“It is best for all to leave each man to acquire property as fast as he can. Some will get wealthy. I don’t believe in a law to prevent a man from getting rich; it would do more harm than good. So while we do not propose any war on capital, we do wish to allow the humblest man an equal chance to get rich with everybody else.”
-From Lincoln’s speech in New Haven, Connecticut delivered March 6, 1860
“Property is the fruit of labor; property is desirable; is a positive good in the world. That some should be rich shows that others may become rich, and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another, but let him work diligently and build one for himself, thus by example assuring that his own shall be safe from violence when built."
-From Lincoln’s response to the New York Democratic Republican Workingman’s Association dated March 21, 1864
That’s not just him extolling individual striving and private property but supporting the profit motive and wealth creation. All while decrying the idea of class conflict to boot. Just because he believed that there is dignity to labor and that they ought to be given the same chance to rise up as anybody else doesn’t mean he was a socialist. Besides that one quote everybody pushing this idea likes to pull out, what other quotes can you think of from Lincoln might be referencing Marx?
@@johnweber4577 Hm id think about the stuff he said at speech at Cincinnati, Ohio on September 17th, 1859 “I hold if the Almighty had ever made a set of men that should do all the eating and none of the work, he would have made them with mouths only and no hands, and if he had ever made another class that he had intended should do all the work and none of the eating, eh would have made them without mouths and with all hands.”
Ofc im just speculating but it seemed pretty convincing to me after all Marx held him in relatively high regards (regarding marx just shitting on prettymuch everyone this is a rare sight).
@@luisbroscheit7834 Again, the problem I have with almost the entirety of the arguments for Lincoln being a crypto-socialist of some kind are that they tend to be based upon citing quotes that state abstract sentiments rather than outlining a concrete vision. The best I believe could be said is that he was possibly more radical when he was younger but mellowed out by the time he was president or maybe throughout it. The excerpts I cited illustrate him supporting the capitalist system in no uncertain terms including individual striving, private property, wealth creation, the profit motive and aversion to class warfare. Perhaps his most resolute being the last one that came only a year before his death. Those opinions don’t necessarily conflict for everybody with the idea that laborers have dignity too and ought to be able to move their way up if they put in the effort. But really, I don’t think that theory is even necessary to explain the line in the context of everything else. It seems pretty clear to me anyway that he’s thinking about the slavery debate as opposed to just any normal voluntary employer and employee relationship and that’s what would be consistent with everything else. And let’s not forget as well that in practice, Lincoln didn’t start out as some kind of labor organizer but was instead a corporate lawyer who worked for the biggest railroad companies in Illinois. That should also inform how we read all of this given it wasn’t a career he later repudiated or anything. And I’m not sure if you read my whole comment, but I thought that the private correspondences I between Marx and Engels I pointed out rather definitively demonstrated that didn’t hold Lincoln in very high regard ultimately despite whatever their public statements might’ve been. I don’t mean to come off as a jerk, and wish to apologize if I indeed do, but I’m just not seeing much of a case for this idea.
@@johnweber4577 Tbh I must apologize first for the words I chose in my original comment, they are very loosygoosy which is in part because it was written fast and partly because my English isn't the best. I wrote that he quoted Marx and I think in English it means something equivalent to citing right? So that is already not true and not what I intended to say, it was trying to communicate that he just seemed overall very if not to say extremely progressive for his time and day. And from what ive heared The contemporary Room is split on whether he read some Marx or did not. Imo it sounds reasonable that he did and found some of Marx's Analysis to be right. It was more of a general impression that it just seemed odd to me that Lincoln was placed on almost the same right-wing metric level as Ronald Reagan even tho they were placed differently on the authoritarian metric.
Concerning the other point, I indeed read your entire comment and I really appreciate it. When I say Marx held him in high regard there are a lot of nuances to it. First of all his opinion on Lincoln changed numerous times, going from bad to good to bad. Second of all, I think I wrote in my response to your comment that in high regard is relative to the opinion he had about virtually every other politician and thinker of his time and the time before him. There is virtually no Thinker or politician Marx considered all-around decent besides his boyfriend (pun intended) without shitting on them at the same time or on other occasions. So that's why I said, that even tho he definitely shit on Lincoln compared to others it was almost love :D
Lastly, I don't think I said that Lincoln was a socialist or crypto-socialist. Being far left in American political history doesn't need all too much tbh. And I felt like his views on labor and slavery were enough to catapult him far left of the crowd.
Thanks again for making me think about my assumptions on a matter from a foreign country's political history that I know comparably little about.
Th only one of them worth a shit was Jefferson, who penned the Declaration of Independence. All governments serves itself, not the people. The people are merely given the illusion that government serves them when in reality, it is the other way around. You give the government money every year. The government couldn't care less about you. You are serving the government, not the other way around. You are the slave, the government is your master. The institution of government enslaves all and is a mass murdering enterprise as all of history has shown. People cannot fathom the idea that no government at all is preferable to a mass murdering enterprise controlled by plutocrats and oligarchs. The very idea of "Left" and "Right" is a tool of the mass murderers to divide and conquer, to maintain control of their brainwashed slaves. There is no Left or Right. There is only Good or Evil. The least Evil of all the Presidents was Thomas Jefferson.
The shift from Trump to Biden from the right to the left quadrant is reflective of the division in the country.
Calvin Coolidge GOAT
When a random group of people do this test today, what you tend to find is 4 arrows pointing to the corners. For people with strong ideological beliefs, the corners are the places of purity but they can never reach them.
I don't see how anyone is offered the position of king and says no can be in the authoritarian right. He is a centrist at most and more likely a libertarian, just less so than Jefferson.
Nicely done!
Keep in mind that all this is considered right of center in European politics.
This was a very good video do this with other countries too 😀
Correction on Biden he doesn’t know where he’s at at any time and his favorite ice cream is chocolate chip so he goes squarely on the bottom center of the chart 🤣🤣
The main issue with the compass is that by time you get to the modern day, older presidents don't line up with where they are placed. Grant, Teddy, Taft, and JFK would be on the right side if judged by todays standards. However i wouldn't put Trump so high on the Authoritarian side and id put Biden higher on it as well as having Obama slightly past the line on the Authoritarian side.
It would’ve been helpful if you highlighted the dot during the current president you’re talking about.
Most of the US political spectrum in general covers 4-8 consecutive squares on the right, very low authoritarian quad. This seemed very inaccurate.
It's difficult to see where the markers appear when there's already many on the board
That moment when you take the test and align with Andrew Jackson
🫡
Very Based. 🫡
This sounds like cause to party at the White House.
I’m from NC, but don’t know if I’m proud of the President who ordered the Trail of Tears
@@jameswilkerson4412 He ordered the trail of tears to prevent a genocidal war, so should actually look into the history before you condemn it.
I like this... but the numbers indicating the president being discussed should be highlighted to allow it to stand out from the previous Presidents already covered
I knew I liked Carter for a reason.
Hey, he’s doing something right to be living so long
Coolidge was the best president the US ever had
Facts
So curious which president is represented by the youngish actor on the left of the tease. I’d guess it’s from a Jefferson movie.
Great video I think the placements are pretty accurate. There are a handful I would move a little but I think mostly everyone is at least in their correct quadrant.
This video was a cool idea but way too hard to visually follow. The newest dot should have been a different highlighted color.
Can’t wait for British Prime ministers
Chinese PRC Presidents and Canadian Prime Ministers on the political map
interesting how no social policy was really discussed other than some of the earlier presidents take on slavery.
Well the political compass doesn’t have a social axis so it couldn’t really effect the position
Someone : "You cant upset Democrats, Republicans, and Libertarians in one video!"
This guys : "Hold my dots bro"
😂
You've got Obama right of Truman. Fail.
Where all my Silent Cal supporters at 🫂🫱🏻🫲🏾🔥🇺🇸🦍
the idea that any American president since FDR (maybe Carter) has been left-wing is absolutely hilarious
I would move Trump quite a bit south-west. Under no circumstance would I place him higher on the authoritarianism scale than Obama or Biden.
He literally suggested suspending parts of the constitution in order to keep himself in power, he also orchestrated a plot to send fraudulent votes to be counted at the Capitol on January 6th 2021, in order to keep himself in power after losing the 2020 election.
Not only do those require him to be pushed further into the top right corner, they also make him an enemy to the Constitution of the United States of America.
I’m curious to see where Reagan falls he was a Democrat all his life until he ran for president. His economics was quite right wing but not entirely.
I would roughly agree with all of these but Obama. He was much more authoritarian than you position him. Definitely should be middle right of top left quadrant. And some of the war mongering could push a few of those later bottom righter's a bit higher, but in general I'd agree with your placement.
I must know where William Henry Harrison is.
Can you take the 12 axes test on video?
The only kinda center-left president you americans had was Frank D. Roosevelt. And maybe Jimmy Carter, but hes just an center liberal-progressist
Their positions relative to one another seem ok to me (with some exceptions) but the whole thing should be squeezed to the northeast so that they almost all end up in Auth-Right.
Turns out I am left libertarian.
Welcome brother
Interesting analyses. Some of these I don't agree with, but upon reflection, I can see why you made your choices.
Interesting that Grant was the first "left" President.
I would like to see that last slide more clear. What are the groupings? Maybe i need to watch this on a large screen tv.
Here you go. www.reddit.com/r/MrZ_Official/comments/1aj3g8z/every_president_on_the_political_compass/
I don't think you're necessarily wrong with Teddy, after all he has to placed somewhere, but it's so hard to see him there. He was sympathetic to workers, but also personally very conservative and led the lifestyle ideal to the neomasculinity movement. Very interesting fella.
Theodore Roosevelt was a progressive conservative along the lines of Germany’s Otto von Bismarck and Britain’s Benjamin Disraeli. Each championing an agenda which combined conservative nationalism with progressive reform. The modern absolute obsession with big government and small government in the abstract and for their own sake has really distorted how many understand the past. Grover Cleveland is another example of this, who was basically the American counterpart of William Gladstone, as a classical liberal holding to the once radical tradition of Thomas Jefferson and Andrew Jackson.
This is so flawed making it essentially pointless
Its really interesting how much the polical compass can shift depending on geography. In Europe, almost all US presidents would be in the right authoritarian quadrant, and certainly none in the left libertarian quadrant
You're saying even FDR and Lyndon Johnson would not qualify for the Northwest quadrant?
@@MonsieurDean Take into account that, in Europe, Northwest would need to have communist leaders, not only Stalin (top far-left), but also Tito, Honecker, Grósz etc. who would be more towards the middle of the quadrant, and therefore, too close to FDR and Lyndon.
On the other side, the Southwest quadrant, would have many democratic and libertarian socialist, and I do not really see Carter or Obama sharing quadrant with them.
At the very least, this breaks from the inevitable results the compass always gives. I noticed last year they had changed it though, and removed the in-depth option with I think nearly 300 questions (though notably a lot of them were just repeats, whether worded differently or not). But that's the most famous issue with the compass - 89% of all people will always be placed in the lower left quadrant regardless of how they answered the simplified or detailed questionnaires.
MY biggest peeve with it is the lack of N/A/Neither Agree or Disagree/Unsure option. Not having it means you have to lie, which of course impacts results in anything.
It is of course also made with bias, though literally all things of it's nature will be, no matter how hard the creators my try to leave theirs out of it. Thus why even concepts like Ground News in reality are from a specific slant and biased perspective when ranking where a news source or story falls on the sociopolitical spectrum, which itself is oversimplified to a egregious extent.
I'm closer to Kennedy, Carter, Clinton etc. politically but Theodore Roosevelt is my favourite President.
Neocons would be way more authoritarian while paleocons and Trump would be more libertarian