I've been getting into 40k, it has it's differences, and distinctions from Dune. That said, there is only one God Emperor, Leto II Atreides. Fun fact, we have the coma womb medical technology for prototype Axlotl Tanks, as a stopgap towards Artificial Womb development. Also feminazis are just Honored Matres minus the Bene Gesserit derived combat ability, just begging to be tanked, so the rest of us can live free and have peace. Shai Hulud Akbar Hallelujah It Just Works Amin
@@raumograeywolf5477 It' a bit wide of the mark to compare a board game to one of the greatest pieces of literature ever created. A thousand things rip off Dune, games included.
@@raumograeywolf5477 We've had the technology for the artificial womb for a decade if not longer. The entire topic sets off "ick" political horror reactions in the medical community. As to axlotl tanks - that's a significantly worse "ick" reaction, and deservedly so.
@@djolds1 I guess it takes a Filthy Tleilaxu to have the stones then, to implement Technology that will Save Humanity from the Cancer that is Female Empowerment/Feminism. Shai Hulud Akbar Hallelujah It Just Works Amin
I think you should review The Dune Enciclopedia as well. It was authorized by Frank Herbert himself (a decade or more before Brian's prequels) and had a different backstory of the Bluterian jihad,more in line with the original books. No cliché war againt terminator/matrix like machines,it was more a cultural and religious rebellion against stagnation and dependece of A.I. to make decisions for ourselves.
I think it was the most plausible scenario of all the "machine war" sci Fi. At the least, it showed very clearly all the advantages machines would have over us
@@jakeg3733 I agree with you. The Second Renaissance was more unique than the others because if humans were to go to war with AI systems that had thought and evolved billions of times faster than humans, then humans would not have the slightest chance towards winning. In the Matrix, humans were truly doomed to become ants when compared to the Machines.
@@sufficientmagister9061 Glad others see this as well. That's what people fail to understand, and when they stand up for AI development it's in the back of their minds, thanks to most of the AI war fiction showing us winning, that humans would stand a chance in such a conflict. We wouldn't. We'd be doomed before the first shot was even fired, and that's assuming we survived long enough for there to be a shooting war
This is a really deep dive, I've read all of these books. The prequel books do not live up to Herberts writing, often times the dialog is God awful, but the story of the Butlerian Jihad is pretty epic in scope. Look forward to this.
For me the Dune prequels and sequels are my guilty pleasures. The writing wasn't up to Herbert's quality but they were respectful of the world he built and as for the sequels, well, I won't lie, it was pretty cool to see Duncan Idaho get his due after being abused by pretty much everyone in the galaxy for literally thousands of years... :-)
Kevin Anderson has a bad problem with dialogue. His Star Wars characters are respectful but don't have much depth either. And even though I adore the EU his writing was very weak in some respects like the Republic overlooking genocide with a slap on the wrist. Aaron Allston is a much better writer. For example he shows the Imperials as authoritarian but not necessarily evil. He also does not portray them as ineffective. He also portrays the Republic characters as more relaxed but fundamentally serious people. Unlike Stackpole or Anderson he does not dismiss crimes committed by the good guys with flippancy. I think he would have been an excellent writer for Dune.
@@dewittbourchier7169 bro kyp durron is the Best. If your world was enslaved by an overlord for decades and one man puts an end to that. And then eith all that epic hero status. Says I vouch for this kid. You don't think the new republic would give leeway to kyp. Also kyp was literally possessed. If mind control atcually existed in real life would you have the victim of Mind rape pay for the sins if the one Controlling them????
What is crazy about this is that it basically set back the Dune universe back a ton. Things we even have now would be punishable by death, like a smartphone, an Alexa, or hell even a graphing calculator.
The bh/kja books are objectively garbage. And I do mean objectively. They are rife with errors, plot holes and internal inconsistencies within the same scenes. They ignore canon wilfully. Fanfiction is at least made by people who love the original. the nu-Dune books are cash grabs plain and simple.
To be honest, to get the most out of these books, you need to re- read them at intervals of like every 5 - 10 years. As your life experiences change your perception of the world - it means you get a new perspective on it's underlying meanings. No need to do that for the prequels as they are disposable comic like stories.
Hello! I am so glad you are reading ALL of the books in CHRONILOGICAL order. Honestly, I do think that is the optimal way to read them. So...My history with Dune started in 1981, when a friend of mine recommended the book. I had a hard time getting past the part where Paul is attacked by the hunter-killer in his bedchamber. I started the book over four times before I finally pushed past that scene...and got hooked. Then I devoured everything Frank Herbert ever wrote. I sat through the Lynch movie in the theater with a friend who never read any of the books. That was fun. LOL Anyway, I reread all of the Herbert books three times. Then I met and married the love of my life, and together we read all of the Herbert books plus all of the Herbert-Anderson books...in chronological order...aloud. At the time, that was 19 books. My husband loved Butlerian Jihad and The Machine Crusade so much that we reread those two when we were done with the 19 books. By then, Herbert-Anderson came out with a bunch more books, and we read them, too. To date, there are 33 books and short stories. And guess what! We are reading them again. Last night, we finished reading Butlerian Jihad. I got to say, one thing that always bothered us about the Dune movies was that nobody seemed to consider going back and making a movie out of Butlerian Jihad. That story is epic. The characters are very well developed. And honestly, we do find the writings of Herbert-Anderson to be more entertaining then those of Frank Herbert. This is just our personal opinion, and I know it’s not a popular one. At any rate, we were really glad to hear you say that the story should be filmed. We have listened to other podcasts that have said they read the book but we think they only read a synopsis because they don’t mention Serena or Erasmus, or Vorian and Agamemnon Atreides. Anyway...thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. We wish you the best. 🌙💜☮️
I've read the original 6 Dune novels when I was 19 y/old , and have been re-reading them every 5-10 years or so , and every time I discover new things and meanings . That has not been my experience with the other "extended universe" novels by the authors son . The original author was well read , well educated and well traveled . His son (I'm sad to say) is comparatively none of those things . Draw your own conclusions . I may be mis-remembering , but I think that at the time of reading the "extended universe" , I got the impression that the "Butlerian jihad" was 'retold' badly in the "extended universe" novels , as the original Dune novels ONLY reference "thinking machines" , and make no mention of 'Cy-mechs' (human brains inside machines) . As to reading VS Audiobooks -- while I'm a fan of audiobooks , I've found that while reading the original Dune books I paused to ponder the introductions of various chapters in the Dune books . These introductions came in the form of 4-8 lines , that were often fictional quotes of thoughts , documents , histories , discussions & meditations from various people and texts , and added by themselves even more layers to the already complex stories . I sincerely do not believe that such an appreciation can be achieved by just going over said intro's once in audio form and continuing on without pausing to reflect . Lastly, for me the much celebrated & lauded original Dune book is quite boring , and my interest in the saga picks up from the second book (Dune Messiah) and onward , as cultures & empires and heroes rise and fall in quite the Greek Tragedy fashion , as both oppression , the manufacturing and deployment of religion and the human condition is explored . As a Star Trek fan , I could no longer read trek novels after I read Dune . Frank Herbert and Dune work on such a higher level , it's just amazing , and from this perspective , I'm a bit saddened that Andre started with the "expended universe" novels , as they don't prepare you for the depth that the original books have (minus the first one IMHO :P ) .
@@djolds1 -- Kinda difficult to authorize stuff when you're dead . His kid raided the notes Frank left behind , and it's said that he used them as a basis for some of the books . It would have been nice if Frank would have ended his series ... , but alas he didn't .
@@Robotrik1 The Dune Encyclopedia was published in 1984 by Willis E. McNelly. Frank Herbert died in 1986. The Encyclopedia is much closer in tone to the spirit of Frank Herbert's work than are Brian Herbert's books.
I read this book a long time ago. I didn't really remember much about it. The Brian Herbert books are much easier to read than the originals, but they don't stay in the memory banks. I do remember the Harkonens were good guys back in the day, and I remember Erasmus, but that's about it.
You can’t spoil your eyesight by “straining” your eyes (reading small text etc). The muscles in your eyes are like any other muscles - you can’t damage or strain them by simply using them (you can tire them, but a simple rest will sort that out) unless they meet some form of (external) resistance. You can’t damage your biceps by simply flexing them, and it’s the same with reading. Of course any muscle can become ‘tired’ when used for a long time without rest. When your eyes grow tired you may get headaches, feel nauseous or dizzy, and your eyes may feel dry and your sight become blurry, but this is all temporary. Of course audiobooks are great for when your also doing something else (driving, work that doesn’t require your full undivided attention) or just don’t feel like reading, but they won’t save your eyesight. So read on without fear!
You just beat me to it. Also, as you age, your vision becomes naturally worse because your eye's muscles cannot adjust as well as they used to focus close objects so reading requires glasses but this is perfectly fine, reading won't worse or accelerate this condition.
dosmastrify - If you spend long periods of time with your eyes focussed only on things that are close to you, without taking breaks to look into the distance, your eyes grow used to ‘aiming’ at something close, which uses muscles to bring them inwards (kind of part way to being ‘cross-eyed’). To look into the distance (in camera terms beyond the infinity point) your eyes must be parallel (horizontally central in each eye). If you never or rarely look into the distance it takes your eyes far far longer to focus on a distant object, so you may feel you need glasses. I remember doing my GCSEs and whenever I looked up at the clock on the wall to check how long I had it was completely blurred, and I thought that my eyesight was failing. But now thirty years later I still don’t need or use glasses (just lucky I guess - but the point is my eyesight wasn’t failing). As you say yourself, your eyesight got ‘better’ when you got a job outside. It’s just a case of under-use of the muscles that move your eyes’ focus from near to far. Under use of a muscle can cause it to weaken, but over use will just cause it to tire.
c ankhovich - yup - the sun’s far enough away to alleviate the close-up focus thing. A good 5 or 10 mins every hour staring directly into the sun should do (preferably on a clear day so it’s easier to tell exactly where the sun is).
I feel like reading the books in the chronological order of the Dune universe vs. release date, works better. Everyone I've started on the prequel books has read the entire series. Everyone I've started on Frank Herbert's Dune reads half of it and quits. I feel like the prequels help people get into the universe with action and then they stay for Frank's wonderful philosophy.
Yeah, after Children I found it painful to keep going. Whenever I zone out reading, I catch myself and flip page a page or two. Only time I ever just kept going regardless.
I truly hope you enjoy the jorney! The Prequest can be a problem if you're used to Frank Herbert's work. I've come to understand that they books, while not as well written, work the same way as they "original series", the message is loud, but not as clear due to writing, and yet it's very relevant, just as much as the messages in the original Dune and the sequels.
The Brian Herbert books are simplistic space opera's written in crayon. His understanding of his father's world was limited and that's speaking very kindly.
I don't think that's the case. Brian isn't as good of a writer as his father was, but he was respectful of the the universe. He was also working on a much tighter timetable. The original Dune took something like 10-15 years to produce. And subsequent novels came out at extremely extended intervals. The final F. Herbert novel came out about two decades after the first was published.
@@FinalBoys1982 I wouldn't know, I don't hang out with Scientologists. Space opera is a term that I first heard about 30 years ago during a discussion about Star Wars.
@@GrahamCStrouse He may have had respect for his fathers' universe but his understanding of it was really limited That he took comparatively little time to write his books is obvious.
Great review Andre , nice to see someone else wants the series to succeed. Wish me luck I have gentlemen's bet going with Rob. And the your review was great please do more. I look forward to it.
I like to read them in chronological order. Even though the prequels are not of the same literally and philosophical quality, they make better light reading, so sometimes I actually prefer them. You can't always read the heady things, you need a bit of lighter entertainment too. And Scott Brick is just perfect.
Let me translate an Amazon review I wrote more than 14 years ago: These books are average SF mediocrity. Embedded into the Dune universe they’re not even close to the standard they are automatically compared to. Even though they take place 10,000 years before „Dune“ they don’t portray the universe in a way that’s compatible with the original story. Sure, many known names are used (Atreides, Harkonnen, Butler, Suk, etc.) but you don’t build an emotional connection to these people. Another disadvantage is the basic language that is used. That makes it easy to read through these 2,500 pages but again it doesn’t hold up to the standard set by Frank Herbert. As for the story you can feel the influence of Kevin Anderson who wrote many a Star Wars novel. There we are, the thinking machines - primarily represented by the central computer Omnius and the two independent robots Erasmus and Seurat - have enslaved mankind on about 550 different worlds and they are opposed by only a handful of League worlds who also don’t have a problem with human slaves. A third and fourth party are humans that left behind their human bodies centuries ago. On the one hand are the „Titans“ who created the Omnius system a thousand years ago and the other hand you have the “Cogitors” who’ve been musing about “life, the universe and everything” for also about a thousand years. There’s no peace between the „League of Nobles“ and the „Synchronized Worlds“ but a fragile balance. The main character is Vorian Atreides, son of the Titan Agamemnon. He lives in the Omnius empire until an event causes the Butlerian Djihad, the war of the humans against the thinking machines. From there to the end of the trilogy roughly 200 years go by in which both the thinking machines as well as the humans commit horrible atrocities to end the war in their favor. In these days people travel at sub-light speed and yet arrive at each other’s territories within months. Billions of people get slaughered and sacrificied and when there’s close combat, people fight with “pulse-swords” against battle droids - George Lucas would have been proud. Then there are „ Sorceresses“ who vowed to fight against the Titans and who can destroy brains with “mental lightning”. Additionally, one woman manages to become a Navigator withing one lifetime how we know them from the Lynch movie. Nothing about “thousands of years of spice consumption have changed them” anymore. At the end of the trilogy everybody who isn’t part of the original Dune novels is of course dead (Omnius, Titans, Cogitors) and every important institution at least mentioned (Guild, Suk School, Bene Gesserit). And in an incredibly stupid turn you get the “reason” for the Atreides-Harkonnen feud two pages before the end of the third volume.
It was certainly an incredibly stupid turn that caused the feud. It reminds me of the star wars prequels having 3 films to bake Anakins turn to the dark side into the story but wait until the final act to really go there abruptly.
I think that the thing that Brian Herbert missed, understandably so because not many people would think of the world we are living in right now as being the catalyst for the butlerian jihad. It was as rejection of the men who control the machines that control people. The “Butlerian” title is a reference to Samual Butler, the one who first proposed the notion of the “singularity” in machine evolution. I think because of all the sci-fi movies about robots like the ones mentioned in this video aren’t what Frank Herbert was really thinking about. It was machines that could control your habits and preferences and subsequently your destiny from tracking all of the people’s actions on the past to predict the future and inso, manipulate the future. Much like Isaac Asimov’s psycho history or like Laplace’s Demon. The original Dune series is almost a repeat of that history but now with the man being the machine not a man controlling that machine. I hope that the new movie refers to that past as more like the present we are living in being slaves to FB and Amazon algorithms and not the sky net.
Well, the movie's out now & it's AWESOME!! I've always been *super* picky when it comes to books/films/music & I absolutely f'n LOVE this version of DUNE!! So good, Villeneuve deserves so much credit for bringing the first half of the first book to life like this.
Never read these books. But I'll happily listen to you talk about them, Andre. This looks like the beginning of a fun series. (Your series that is, not necessarily the Dune prequels.) It's really weird to me that a conquering machine civilization would keep any humans around at all. What would they need us for? They can just build dedicated non-sentient machines to do all the labor. The post-human types like Mentats that come about after the Butlerian Jihad are really intriguing to me. One would think that whatever their origin (whether it's through plain old selective breeding or genetic manipulation), the posthumans would be tempted to seize control of civilization themselves. But it seems like in the Dune universe (not the prequels) the political system is constructed to balance every class and type against all the others, so it's in no one's interest to rock the boat.
The BH books are not canon and retcon or ignore the originals. They changed the Butlerian Jihad to match their own ending that ignores what Frank had setup. By the time they reach the era of Dune they start saying that Frank's books were wrong.
The original Dune trilogy plus God Emperor of Dune are the only ones I care about. The Butlerian Jihad was inspired by an essay by Samuel Butler called Darwin Among The Machines.
Brian's book misses the point of the Butlerian Jihad. It was to free humans from dependence on machines to open the way to further the evolution of the mind. Frank never mentions any kind of singularity where a skynet knockoff takes over the galaxy. I can't even comprehend how Brian thought this was a good idea.
Idk why but I love how Andre ties in the sponser portion of videos, maybe it's his voice, how natural it feels, and/or he doesn't try to sound like a used car salesman but it just gives me a chuckle
Each set of books are for different generation. The original were written back when everything we have now was just a pipedream and also when time (compared to today) was a lot slower. Alot of books from back them were allegories to what was going on in the real world. The BH/KA Dune books were written in today's fashion, action and with story to tell with no real world counterpart. Fan fiction it all fan fiction. Dune is complex and the recent novels are a good read if they don't quite matchup to the previous books. Writing a epic saga like Dune is daunting exercise, to try to add to it and carry-on the legacy is to me one hell of a endeavor and those two did impress job....But hey everybody's a critic, right?
Jay Jeckel Are the prequels books really that bad? I haven’t read Dune so I’m genuinely curious. Are they as bad as the Hobbit movies or more Sequel trilogy?
@@Avarn388 No, they are definetly not bad, not at all. Don't listen to these idiots. I cherish all of the books, including the (admittedly inferior) but still excellent prequels.
@@Avarn388 I used to work at a bookstore. When people asked about them I'd say go ahead and read them, you will never read anything this bad again. Examples: they have young Paul Atreides run away from home and join the circus. The ending is literally and I do mean literally a deus ex machina. They make a character who can shapeshift between human and giant sandworm in an instant. And junk science like chemical rockets that can go faster than light.
I mean this as non-personal critique of your presentation. When Frank Herbert writes about the Butlerian J, ie the war against the machines, he says "once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other *men* with machines to enslave them." Brian Herbert seems to have misunderstood his father's shadowy antagonist because the butlerian J was very clearly against *men* with *machines* and not a species war with one versus the other. My point is that this fact jumps out very early reading in release date order so there is a *very good reason* not to start with nonsense retcon franchise material when making video essay. Start with the strength of the franchise, not its weakness, and you will make superior content. I don't mean it as a personal dig, just constructive criticism if you want it.
I HAVE read "Some" of the Brian Herbert prequels & I actually was impressed, NOT as impressed when I first read the original Frank Herbert books. All 6 of the originals I DEVOURED each in two-three days each, tough slog but EXTREMELY Satisfying.
I am so glad that someone else agrees that the prequel Dune books have a very cinematic feel, I think they would make a great TV series set in this universe comprised of all the Legend of Dune books. This video makes me want to read them again, thank you for that!
You should read the Dune Encyclopedia. Its the only associated work authorized by FRANK Herbert himself. Since Brian Herbert is pushing his own work, the Herbert Estate has persistently refused permission to republish the Encyclopedia. PDFs are online. The mythology assembled in the Encyclopedia fits well with FRANK Herbert's actual work.
Many have probably already written this, but I will just add to their input that the Machine War in the expanded Dune Universe by Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson is NOT what was described in the original Dune universe of Frank Herbert. No opinion, just fact. And no diss against the expanded universe, I have read it as well and enjoyed it for what it is, but my opinion is that it is a mistake to consider the prequel novels a 1:1 to the Butlerian Jihad. The writing style and focus is just so different that I do not think it will prepare you for what you will experience once you start reading Frank Herbert’s own hand.
The dune Encyclopedia explains it how frank Herbert intended the war on the machines to be about. Frank Herbert was one of greatest sci-fi writers ever in my opinion his books have influenced many sci-fi series and movies
I really enjoyed the other books. Yes they aren't as good as the originals but his son did a good job trying to tie up loose ends using his dad's notes. I think Frank Herbert would be proud that his son even tried to follow in his footsteps. They are a good read and I appreciated having some kind of ending to the story.
I’ve always said that the first Dune movie should be the Butlerian Jihad because it sets up the world why there is a mistrust of machines. Why there are mentats. Why the mind and the spice become important. Why expanding consciousness is more important than increasing technology
Unfortunately this book breaks part of the Dune universe as per Frank Herbert in that the planet Earth is forgotten and regarded as "myth" yet the Butlerian Jihad is not, and the reason for the beginning of it.
The problem I have with the war on the machines is they changed the nature of what the issue was. Originally, to me at least, it felt like the machines were used by the powerful to control the weak. The machines were destroyed to save humanity from stagnation and oppression, not from a robot rebellion.
Honestly... The aftermath of the Butlerian Jihad would make a great TV mini-series. If you really think about it. Even after that conflict and it's horrible aftermath. Not everyone would be on board for scrapping all that advanced technology and basically going back to square one. As it would set humanity back thousands of years. The way I see it. There'd be three major factions. The first being hell-bent on completely wiping out anything remotely resembling hi-tech and A.I. The second group wanting to keep the existing technology but, initiate major reforms/restrictions so that another Butlerian Jihad never happens again. The third group being divided on this issue but would cast the deciding vote. I can see major story telling potential here.
I've been using Audible since they started. I listen to 2 books a month. Looking forward to following your series. I am a big fan of Scott Bricks reading of books.
The (in world) chronological order is best if you start anew. You get the background first. The Brian H./Anderson books are not as deep and philosophical, but more mainstream entertainment - which isn't bad, just different. I like them, and the audiobooks are really great. Scott Brick is one of my favourite book readers.
The problem (as Andre points out), at least one of the major ones, of reading it chronologically including the Brian/KJA books this way, is it gives Brian and Kevin a good shot at ruining your experience and understanding of the originals. Halfway through The Butlerian Jihad you _will_ find yourself saying "no fucking way was this what Herbert intended..." and bam, you now have a set of ideas about the jihad that were so obviously not meant to be part of the story, such as pages upon pages about the evil robot dissection of living people, babies, whatever, and you have to just live with it. Did I mention the robots are evil? They sure are! You'll see. They're evil! They really are! Evil!
I have all the audible books. Here is the complete Dune saga in audio book format, and where to find each segment of story. Some parts are great, others are meh, some are "wtf?". But it is what it is. I am about to begin my very long run. Running time Total: (16 Days, 9 Hours, 52 minutes continuous) Hunting Harkonnens (short story) --- Tales of Dune: Chapter 2 The Butlerian Jihad --- The Butlerian Jihad Whipping Mek (short story) --- Tales of Dune: Chapter 3 The Machine Crusade --- The Machine Crusade The Faces of a Martyr (short story) --- Tales of Dune: Chapter 4 The Battle of Corrin --- The Battle of Corrin Sisterhood of Dune --- Sisterhood of Dune Mentats of Dune --- Mentats of Dune Red Plague (short story) --- Tales of Dune: Chapter 5 Navigators of Dune --- Navigators of Dune House Atreides --- House Atreides House Harkonnen --- House Harkonnen House Corrino --- House Corrino Paul of Dune --- Paul of Dune: Part II - Chapter 4: 03:43:39 Paul of Dune --- Paul of Dune: Part IV - Chapter 7: 08:33:44 Paul of Dune --- Paul of Dune: Part VI - Chapter 12: 13:55:35 Wedding Silk (short story) --- Tales of Dune: Chapter 6 The Winds of Dune --- The Winds of Dune: Part II - Chapter 4 Whisper of Caladan Seas (short story) --- Tales of Dune: Chapter 7 Dune --- Dune Paul of Dune --- Paul of Dune: Part I - Chapter 1: 00:00:00 Paul of Dune --- Paul of Dune: Part III - Chapter 5: 05:48:36 Paul of Dune --- Paul of Dune: Part V - Chapter 9: 11:03:18 Paul of Dune --- Paul of Dune: Part VII - Chapter 13: 15:41:56 The Winds of Dune --- The Winds of Dune: Part IV - Chapter 9 Dune Messiah --- Dune Messiah The Winds of Dune --- The Winds of Dune: Part I - Chapter 1 The Winds of Dune --- The Winds of Dune: Part III - Chapter 7 The Winds of Dune --- The Winds of Dune: Part V - Chapter 12 Children of Dune --- Children of Dune God Emperor of Dune --- God Emperor of Dune Heretics of Dune --- Heretics of Dune Sea Child (short story) --- Tales of Dune: Chapter 8 Chapterhouse: Dune --- Chapterhouse: Dune Hunters of Dune --- Hunters of Dune Treasure in the Sand (short story) --- Tales of Dune: Chapter 9-End Sandworms of Dune --- Sandworms of Dune The Road to Dune --- The Road To Dune (extras) (comments hate tabs, it seems.)
I've watched several of your videos, and decided to subscribe. Now, you're offering me a way to get caught up with the Dune Prequel books in a way that beats reading or listening to them. The least I can do is re-sign up with Audible, which I subscribed to for a few years in the mid 2010s. I read the first 4 Dune books by Frank Herbert when I was 25, in early 1985. They were excellent. Some of the best Science Fiction I ever read. I got distracted from the series and never got back to it. But with the new Dune movie fast approaching, I plan to re-read the Frank Herbert books I've already read, then the last two books. I won't read the prequels, but will rely on your synopses. One last thing ... in one of your videos, you mentioned that some people don't like your voice. I think it has character. My teen boys think so, too. Thanks for the excellent videos.
I was excited for this video until you mentioned the non frank herbert books. those are for dune what the disney movies are for star wars. let's just ignore them. only the frank herbert books are canon.
The nu-Dune books were not written of nor conceived of by Frank Herbert. The poor, fannish quality of the writing caused me to stop reading the first one after 75 pages. The choice of characters to focus on ( such as Holtzmann) evidenced a cherrypicking that didn't serve any of the central themes Herbert senior focused on as crucial to the development of the future he envisioned. None of these "prequel" books add anything essential to understanding or even enjoying Frank Herbert's personal Dune works. I consider them a lazily written , non essential cash grab by inferior wordsmiths. That's not saying some people didn't enjoy them , but ice cream doesn't really need a flavorless topping of bland whipped cream to be good.
I wasn't particularly inspired by the casting of Paul and Chani in the new movie. The Muad D'ib in this case looks a 12 yr old boy who falls head over heels for a girl, who looks like she has the body of a 12 yr old boy. Best case scenario: I can't imagine we will see much on screen chemistry between the two. And this relationship is so important to the story. Worst case: Hollyweird perverted projection again. And these days nothing would surprise about that place.
The Butlerian Jihad brought about a ban on all computers, not just AI. I've never read the prequels. To me they aren't cannon. They don't contained Frank Herbert's ideas and stories. They certainly aren't necessary, and only water down a series that was already out of steam.
Great video! Thank you, sir. I stopped it short of the spoiler section, but will continue after I have read the Butlerian Jihad. I'm reading thru Children of Dune at the moment. BTW, another enjoyable Man vs. Machine series is the Berzerker series by Fred Saberhagen. There was supposed to be a movie about 10 years ago, but it never actually got made. Looking forward to more of these videos and, of course, the upcoming movie! Let's hope it's great!
I read the six while writing my MA thesis. It helped my concentration and what I called my "internal articulation" the flowing of words for my writing.
![[UA] Team Vitality проти NAVI | IEM Cologne 2024](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wttO1zVRTC0/mqdefault.jpg)
Ah, yes, Warhammer 40k's dad. The Spice must flow.
I've been getting into 40k, it has it's differences, and distinctions from Dune.
That said, there is only one God Emperor, Leto II Atreides.
Fun fact, we have the coma womb medical technology for prototype Axlotl Tanks, as a stopgap towards Artificial Womb development.
Also feminazis are just Honored Matres minus the Bene Gesserit derived combat ability, just begging to be tanked, so the rest of us can live free and have peace.
Shai Hulud Akbar Hallelujah It Just Works Amin
@@raumograeywolf5477 It' a bit wide of the mark to compare a board game to one of the greatest pieces of literature ever created. A thousand things rip off Dune, games included.
@@MySamurai77 Yeah that binary sunset, came with a stellar piece of music.
@@raumograeywolf5477 We've had the technology for the artificial womb for a decade if not longer. The entire topic sets off "ick" political horror reactions in the medical community. As to axlotl tanks - that's a significantly worse "ick" reaction, and deservedly so.
@@djolds1 I guess it takes a Filthy Tleilaxu to have the stones then, to implement Technology that will Save Humanity from the Cancer that is Female Empowerment/Feminism.
Shai Hulud Akbar Hallelujah It Just Works Amin
I think you should review The Dune Enciclopedia as well.
It was authorized by Frank Herbert himself (a decade or more before Brian's prequels) and had a different backstory of the Bluterian jihad,more in line with the original books.
No cliché war againt terminator/matrix like machines,it was more a cultural and religious rebellion against stagnation and dependece of A.I. to make decisions for ourselves.
the rebellion against ai will be religious too in the real world.
ai are manmade intelligences meant to mimic god. aka demons.
The Animatrix as well as the Matrix did a decent War of the machines.
Minus directed evolution.
And for a time, it was good....
I think it was the most plausible scenario of all the "machine war" sci Fi. At the least, it showed very clearly all the advantages machines would have over us
@@jakeg3733
I agree with you. The Second Renaissance was more unique than the others because if humans were to go to war with AI systems that had thought and evolved billions of times faster than humans, then humans would not have the slightest chance towards winning. In the Matrix, humans were truly doomed to become ants when compared to the Machines.
@@sufficientmagister9061 Glad others see this as well. That's what people fail to understand, and when they stand up for AI development it's in the back of their minds, thanks to most of the AI war fiction showing us winning, that humans would stand a chance in such a conflict. We wouldn't. We'd be doomed before the first shot was even fired, and that's assuming we survived long enough for there to be a shooting war
This is a really deep dive, I've read all of these books. The prequel books do not live up to Herberts writing, often times the dialog is God awful, but the story of the Butlerian Jihad is pretty epic in scope. Look forward to this.
For me the Dune prequels and sequels are my guilty pleasures. The writing wasn't up to Herbert's quality but they were respectful of the world he built and as for the sequels, well, I won't lie, it was pretty cool to see Duncan Idaho get his due after being abused by pretty much everyone in the galaxy for literally thousands of years... :-)
Kevin Anderson has a bad problem with dialogue. His Star Wars characters are respectful but don't have much depth either. And even though I adore the EU his writing was very weak in some respects like the Republic overlooking genocide with a slap on the wrist. Aaron Allston is a much better writer. For example he shows the Imperials as authoritarian but not necessarily evil. He also does not portray them as ineffective. He also portrays the Republic characters as more relaxed but fundamentally serious people. Unlike Stackpole or Anderson he does not dismiss crimes committed by the good guys with flippancy. I think he would have been an excellent writer for Dune.
I read the first six three times each. I wouldn't touch the pastiches.
@@dewittbourchier7169 bro kyp durron is the Best. If your world was enslaved by an overlord for decades and one man puts an end to that. And then eith all that epic hero status. Says I vouch for this kid. You don't think the new republic would give leeway to kyp. Also kyp was literally possessed. If mind control atcually existed in real life would you have the victim of Mind rape pay for the sins if the one Controlling them????
@@magnenoalex2 He genocided an entire species.
What is crazy about this is that it basically set back the Dune universe back a ton. Things we even have now would be punishable by death, like a smartphone, an Alexa, or hell even a graphing calculator.
The first six Dune books are the only ones that I consider to be canon: anything else is fanfiction.
After rereading them over the years, I feel that the original novel is a standout (IMO, the best sci-fi of all time); it didn't need any sequels.
I think the first 10 should be Canon.
Only Dune is good none of the others are worth reading
The bh/kja books are objectively garbage. And I do mean objectively. They are rife with errors, plot holes and internal inconsistencies within the same scenes. They ignore canon wilfully. Fanfiction is at least made by people who love the original. the nu-Dune books are cash grabs plain and simple.
I feel basically the same about star wars
Looking forward to this series. Thanks for covering the DUNE books. Really hope this franchise is given justice on film.
Everything I've heard about the movie sounds great - lets hope for good marketing and boxoffice!
It's gonna
To be honest, to get the most out of these books, you need to re- read them at intervals of like every 5 - 10 years. As your life experiences change your perception of the world - it means you get a new perspective on it's underlying meanings. No need to do that for the prequels as they are disposable comic like stories.
Ive set up an old dell running XP and I was playing Dune 2000 the other day.
I’ve never even heard of Dune until the first part, researching the game made me get a feel of the characters and lore.
Oh!....I read the 6 books by Herbert years ago! My favorite is "God Emperor of Dune." Emperor Leto II was the saga's deepest character in my opinion.
I agree! It was my favorite as well.
Best of the series! Children of dune comes in third in my opinion.
My expectations for Dune movie is low I don't wanna be disappointed
Have you seen it yet? Did you like it?
Hello! I am so glad you are reading ALL of the books in CHRONILOGICAL order. Honestly, I do think that is the optimal way to read them. So...My history with Dune started in 1981, when a friend of mine recommended the book. I had a hard time getting past the part where Paul is attacked by the hunter-killer in his bedchamber. I started the book over four times before I finally pushed past that scene...and got hooked. Then I devoured everything Frank Herbert ever wrote. I sat through the Lynch movie in the theater with a friend who never read any of the books. That was fun. LOL Anyway, I reread all of the Herbert books three times. Then I met and married the love of my life, and together we read all of the Herbert books plus all of the Herbert-Anderson books...in chronological order...aloud. At the time, that was 19 books. My husband loved Butlerian Jihad and The Machine Crusade so much that we reread those two when we were done with the 19 books. By then, Herbert-Anderson came out with a bunch more books, and we read them, too. To date, there are 33 books and short stories. And guess what! We are reading them again. Last night, we finished reading Butlerian Jihad. I got to say, one thing that always bothered us about the Dune movies was that nobody seemed to consider going back and making a movie out of Butlerian Jihad. That story is epic. The characters are very well developed. And honestly, we do find the writings of Herbert-Anderson to be more entertaining then those of Frank Herbert. This is just our personal opinion, and I know it’s not a popular one. At any rate, we were really glad to hear you say that the story should be filmed. We have listened to other podcasts that have said they read the book but we think they only read a synopsis because they don’t mention Serena or Erasmus, or Vorian and Agamemnon Atreides. Anyway...thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. We wish you the best. 🌙💜☮️
I've read the original 6 Dune novels when I was 19 y/old , and have been re-reading them every 5-10 years or so , and every time I discover new things and meanings .
That has not been my experience with the other "extended universe" novels by the authors son .
The original author was well read , well educated and well traveled . His son (I'm sad to say) is comparatively none of those things . Draw your own conclusions .
I may be mis-remembering , but I think that at the time of reading the "extended universe" , I got the impression that the "Butlerian jihad" was 'retold' badly in the "extended universe" novels , as the original Dune novels ONLY reference "thinking machines" , and make no mention of 'Cy-mechs' (human brains inside machines) .
As to reading VS Audiobooks -- while I'm a fan of audiobooks , I've found that while reading the original Dune books I paused to ponder the introductions of various chapters in the Dune books .
These introductions came in the form of 4-8 lines , that were often fictional quotes of thoughts , documents , histories , discussions & meditations from various people and texts , and added by themselves even more layers to the already complex stories .
I sincerely do not believe that such an appreciation can be achieved by just going over said intro's once in audio form and continuing on without pausing to reflect .
Lastly, for me the much celebrated & lauded original Dune book is quite boring , and my interest in the saga picks up from the second book (Dune Messiah) and onward , as cultures & empires and heroes rise and fall in quite the Greek Tragedy fashion , as both oppression , the manufacturing and deployment of religion and the human condition is explored .
As a Star Trek fan , I could no longer read trek novels after I read Dune .
Frank Herbert and Dune work on such a higher level , it's just amazing , and from this perspective , I'm a bit saddened that Andre started with the "expended universe" novels , as they don't prepare you for the depth that the original books have (minus the first one IMHO :P ) .
You should read the Dune Encyclopedia. It was authorized by FRANK Herbert and only enriches his mythos IMO.
@@djolds1 -- Kinda difficult to authorize stuff when you're dead . His kid raided the notes Frank left behind , and it's said that he used them as a basis for some of the books . It would have been nice if Frank would have ended his series ... , but alas he didn't .
@@Robotrik1 The Dune Encyclopedia was published in 1984 by Willis E. McNelly. Frank Herbert died in 1986. The Encyclopedia is much closer in tone to the spirit of Frank Herbert's work than are Brian Herbert's books.
I read this book a long time ago. I didn't really remember much about it. The Brian Herbert books are much easier to read than the originals, but they don't stay in the memory banks. I do remember the Harkonens were good guys back in the day, and I remember Erasmus, but that's about it.
"I am taking a deep dive and I am taking you all with me" sounds intimidating af.
Erasmus is my favorite Dune baddy. He is truly scary.
He is indeed
A true sociopath......an individual who has no respect for morality or ethics whatsoever. Making his ultimate end all that more amazing.
You can’t spoil your eyesight by “straining” your eyes (reading small text etc). The muscles in your eyes are like any other muscles - you can’t damage or strain them by simply using them (you can tire them, but a simple rest will sort that out) unless they meet some form of (external) resistance. You can’t damage your biceps by simply flexing them, and it’s the same with reading. Of course any muscle can become ‘tired’ when used for a long time without rest. When your eyes grow tired you may get headaches, feel nauseous or dizzy, and your eyes may feel dry and your sight become blurry, but this is all temporary. Of course audiobooks are great for when your also doing something else (driving, work that doesn’t require your full undivided attention) or just don’t feel like reading, but they won’t save your eyesight.
So read on without fear!
You just beat me to it. Also, as you age, your vision becomes naturally worse because your eye's muscles cannot adjust as well as they used to focus close objects so reading requires glasses but this is perfectly fine, reading won't worse or accelerate this condition.
I didnt need glasses until I bought a PC though. And my eyes even got better when I got a job outside away from the computer (not for long but)
dosmastrify - If you spend long periods of time with your eyes focussed only on things that are close to you, without taking breaks to look into the distance, your eyes grow used to ‘aiming’ at something close, which uses muscles to bring them inwards (kind of part way to being ‘cross-eyed’). To look into the distance (in camera terms beyond the infinity point) your eyes must be parallel (horizontally central in each eye). If you never or rarely look into the distance it takes your eyes far far longer to focus on a distant object, so you may feel you need glasses. I remember doing my GCSEs and whenever I looked up at the clock on the wall to check how long I had it was completely blurred, and I thought that my eyesight was failing. But now thirty years later I still don’t need or use glasses (just lucky I guess - but the point is my eyesight wasn’t failing).
As you say yourself, your eyesight got ‘better’ when you got a job outside. It’s just a case of under-use of the muscles that move your eyes’ focus from near to far. Under use of a muscle can cause it to weaken, but over use will just cause it to tire.
sungaze
c ankhovich - yup - the sun’s far enough away to alleviate the close-up focus thing. A good 5 or 10 mins every hour staring directly into the sun should do (preferably on a clear day so it’s easier to tell exactly where the sun is).
I feel like reading the books in the chronological order of the Dune universe vs. release date, works better. Everyone I've started on the prequel books has read the entire series. Everyone I've started on Frank Herbert's Dune reads half of it and quits. I feel like the prequels help people get into the universe with action and then they stay for Frank's wonderful philosophy.
Yeah, after Children I found it painful to keep going. Whenever I zone out reading, I catch myself and flip page a page or two. Only time I ever just kept going regardless.
Having a picture of the Dr Bunsen and Beaker from the Muppets as the scientists...bravo ME, bravo 🤣👏
Erasmus was an interesting character. He wasn't evil, he just lacked good
I truly hope you enjoy the jorney!
The Prequest can be a problem if you're used to Frank Herbert's work. I've come to understand that they books, while not as well written, work the same way as they "original series", the message is loud, but not as clear due to writing, and yet it's very relevant, just as much as the messages in the original Dune and the sequels.
Going to read on a Kindle, then you can change the font size to save your eyes.
The Brian Herbert books are simplistic space opera's written in crayon. His understanding of his father's world was limited and that's speaking very kindly.
Darrylizer1 funny, Scientologists use the term space opera quite often.
I don't think that's the case. Brian isn't as good of a writer as his father was, but he was respectful of the the universe. He was also working on a much tighter timetable. The original Dune took something like 10-15 years to produce. And subsequent novels came out at extremely extended intervals. The final F. Herbert novel came out about two decades after the first was published.
@@FinalBoys1982 I wouldn't know, I don't hang out with Scientologists. Space opera is a term that I first heard about 30 years ago during a discussion about Star Wars.
@@GrahamCStrouse He may have had respect for his fathers' universe but his understanding of it was really limited That he took comparatively little time to write his books is obvious.
Great review Andre , nice to see someone else wants the series to succeed. Wish me luck I have gentlemen's bet going with Rob.
And the your review was great please do more. I look forward to it.
I like to read them in chronological order. Even though the prequels are not of the same literally and philosophical quality, they make better light reading, so sometimes I actually prefer them. You can't always read the heady things, you need a bit of lighter entertainment too. And Scott Brick is just perfect.
06:42 hmm..Princess Irulan 😍
Virginia Madsen is so underused. And yes, she is princess-worthy.
Let me translate an Amazon review I wrote more than 14 years ago:
These books are average SF mediocrity. Embedded into the Dune universe they’re not even close to the standard they are automatically compared to.
Even though they take place 10,000 years before „Dune“ they don’t portray the universe in a way that’s compatible with the original story. Sure, many known names are used (Atreides, Harkonnen, Butler, Suk, etc.) but you don’t build an emotional connection to these people.
Another disadvantage is the basic language that is used. That makes it easy to read through these 2,500 pages but again it doesn’t hold up to the standard set by Frank Herbert.
As for the story you can feel the influence of Kevin Anderson who wrote many a Star Wars novel. There we are, the thinking machines - primarily represented by the central computer Omnius and the two independent robots Erasmus and Seurat - have enslaved mankind on about 550 different worlds and they are opposed by only a handful of League worlds who also don’t have a problem with human slaves. A third and fourth party are humans that left behind their human bodies centuries ago. On the one hand are the „Titans“ who created the Omnius system a thousand years ago and the other hand you have the “Cogitors” who’ve been musing about “life, the universe and everything” for also about a thousand years.
There’s no peace between the „League of Nobles“ and the „Synchronized Worlds“ but a fragile balance. The main character is Vorian Atreides, son of the Titan Agamemnon. He lives in the Omnius empire until an event causes the Butlerian Djihad, the war of the humans against the thinking machines. From there to the end of the trilogy roughly 200 years go by in which both the thinking machines as well as the humans commit horrible atrocities to end the war in their favor.
In these days people travel at sub-light speed and yet arrive at each other’s territories within months. Billions of people get slaughered and sacrificied and when there’s close combat, people fight with “pulse-swords” against battle droids - George Lucas would have been proud.
Then there are „ Sorceresses“ who vowed to fight against the Titans and who can destroy brains with “mental lightning”. Additionally, one woman manages to become a Navigator withing one lifetime how we know them from the Lynch movie. Nothing about “thousands of years of spice consumption have changed them” anymore.
At the end of the trilogy everybody who isn’t part of the original Dune novels is of course dead (Omnius, Titans, Cogitors) and every important institution at least mentioned (Guild, Suk School, Bene Gesserit). And in an incredibly stupid turn you get the “reason” for the Atreides-Harkonnen feud two pages before the end of the third volume.
It was certainly an incredibly stupid turn that caused the feud. It reminds me of the star wars prequels having 3 films to bake Anakins turn to the dark side into the story but wait until the final act to really go there abruptly.
Thanks for sharing! I always wondered if I should read them or not. I should'nt.
@@frankvizen5480 And to top it off: That's a reason that keeps a feud alive for 10,000 years?
@@DJDoena right? LOL
Spoilers
Nothing gets the Crusader juices flowing quite like child murder.
Smoothest advertisement segue ever. So smooth I didn’t even think to skip.
I think that the thing that Brian Herbert missed, understandably so because not many people would think of the world we are living in right now as being the catalyst for the butlerian jihad. It was as rejection of the men who control the machines that control people. The “Butlerian” title is a reference to Samual Butler, the one who first proposed the notion of the “singularity” in machine evolution. I think because of all the sci-fi movies about robots like the ones mentioned in this video aren’t what Frank Herbert was really thinking about. It was machines that could control your habits and preferences and subsequently your destiny from tracking all of the people’s actions on the past to predict the future and inso, manipulate the future. Much like Isaac Asimov’s psycho history or like Laplace’s Demon. The original Dune series is almost a repeat of that history but now with the man being the machine not a man controlling that machine. I hope that the new movie refers to that past as more like the present we are living in being slaves to FB and Amazon algorithms and not the sky net.
Thank you, came here to say this, then closed the video. The Butlerian Jihad Trilogy is an abomination.
Well, the movie's out now & it's AWESOME!! I've always been *super* picky when it comes to books/films/music & I absolutely f'n LOVE this version of DUNE!! So good, Villeneuve deserves so much credit for bringing the first half of the first book to life like this.
I like listening to your channel, even when I am not interested in the topic
Never read these books. But I'll happily listen to you talk about them, Andre. This looks like the beginning of a fun series. (Your series that is, not necessarily the Dune prequels.)
It's really weird to me that a conquering machine civilization would keep any humans around at all. What would they need us for? They can just build dedicated non-sentient machines to do all the labor.
The post-human types like Mentats that come about after the Butlerian Jihad are really intriguing to me. One would think that whatever their origin (whether it's through plain old selective breeding or genetic manipulation), the posthumans would be tempted to seize control of civilization themselves. But it seems like in the Dune universe (not the prequels) the political system is constructed to balance every class and type against all the others, so it's in no one's interest to rock the boat.
The BH books are not canon and retcon or ignore the originals. They changed the Butlerian Jihad to match their own ending that ignores what Frank had setup. By the time they reach the era of Dune they start saying that Frank's books were wrong.
bh/kja should have been prevented from using the word dune in their titles, to avoid all of this confusion
The original Dune trilogy plus God Emperor of Dune are the only ones I care about.
The Butlerian Jihad was inspired by an essay by Samuel Butler called Darwin Among The Machines.
Brian's book misses the point of the Butlerian Jihad. It was to free humans from dependence on machines to open the way to further the evolution of the mind. Frank never mentions any kind of singularity where a skynet knockoff takes over the galaxy. I can't even comprehend how Brian thought this was a good idea.
That ad segue was almost Rene Richie level! Well done. I’m very hopeful that this new Dune will be well made.
Idk why but I love how Andre ties in the sponser portion of videos, maybe it's his voice, how natural it feels, and/or he doesn't try to sound like a used car salesman but it just gives me a chuckle
I started in chronological order too, having read the original series years ago.
Each set of books are for different generation. The original were written back when everything we have now was just a pipedream and also when time (compared to today) was a lot slower. Alot of books from back them were allegories to what was going on in the real world. The BH/KA Dune books were written in today's fashion, action and with story to tell with no real world counterpart. Fan fiction it all fan fiction. Dune is complex and the recent novels are a good read if they don't quite matchup to the previous books. Writing a epic saga like Dune is daunting exercise, to try to add to it and carry-on the legacy is to me one hell of a endeavor and those two did impress job....But hey everybody's a critic, right?
Well, have fun reading the fanfiction. I'll tune back into the videos once you reach the 6 books that matter and are actual canon.
Jay Jeckel Are the prequels books really that bad? I haven’t read Dune so I’m genuinely curious. Are they as bad as the Hobbit movies or more Sequel trilogy?
@@Avarn388
No, they are definetly not bad, not at all. Don't listen to these idiots. I cherish all of the books, including the (admittedly inferior) but still excellent prequels.
@@Avarn388 I used to work at a bookstore. When people asked about them I'd say go ahead and read them, you will never read anything this bad again.
Examples: they have young Paul Atreides run away from home and join the circus. The ending is literally and I do mean literally a deus ex machina. They make a character who can shapeshift between human and giant sandworm in an instant. And junk science like chemical rockets that can go faster than light.
I mean this as non-personal critique of your presentation. When Frank Herbert writes about the Butlerian J, ie the war against the machines, he says "once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other *men* with machines to enslave them." Brian Herbert seems to have misunderstood his father's shadowy antagonist because the butlerian J was very clearly against *men* with *machines* and not a species war with one versus the other. My point is that this fact jumps out very early reading in release date order so there is a *very good reason* not to start with nonsense retcon franchise material when making video essay. Start with the strength of the franchise, not its weakness, and you will make superior content. I don't mean it as a personal dig, just constructive criticism if you want it.
This has all happened before and it will all happen again. SO SAY WE ALL!!!
I HAVE read "Some" of the Brian Herbert prequels & I actually was impressed, NOT as impressed when I first read the original Frank Herbert books. All 6 of the originals I DEVOURED each in two-three days each, tough slog but EXTREMELY Satisfying.
I am so glad that someone else agrees that the prequel Dune books have a very cinematic feel, I think they would make a great TV series set in this universe comprised of all the Legend of Dune books. This video makes me want to read them again, thank you for that!
You're welcome!
The Butlerian Jihad trilogy would make such a cool anime trilogy. It seems somehow tailor made for that medium.
I imagined it as a crossover between Starship Troopers and Terminator and Battlestar Galactica.
You should read the Dune Encyclopedia. Its the only associated work authorized by FRANK Herbert himself. Since Brian Herbert is pushing his own work, the Herbert Estate has persistently refused permission to republish the Encyclopedia. PDFs are online. The mythology assembled in the Encyclopedia fits well with FRANK Herbert's actual work.
I get confused when people say they don't have time to read, yet they can listen to audiobooks. Don't most people read faster than people can talk?
Julien Walden it’s not made a priority but at least it can be digested while doing other boring tasks
Can you read while driving a car, riding a bike or going for a walk, or working and doing some chores?
Cause if you drive a lot it makes it easier to be told the story while driving
Lol @1:23 Rob's Kirk impression is hilarious 😂!
Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson did an amazing job to further the story. Definitely worth reading.
is that you brian?
Many have probably already written this, but I will just add to their input that the Machine War in the expanded Dune Universe by Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson is NOT what was described in the original Dune universe of Frank Herbert. No opinion, just fact. And no diss against the expanded universe, I have read it as well and enjoyed it for what it is, but my opinion is that it is a mistake to consider the prequel novels a 1:1 to the Butlerian Jihad. The writing style and focus is just so different that I do not think it will prepare you for what you will experience once you start reading Frank Herbert’s own hand.
The dune Encyclopedia explains it how frank Herbert intended the war on the machines to be about.
Frank Herbert was one of greatest sci-fi writers ever in my opinion his books have influenced many sci-fi series and movies
I love the images he chose to go with all this
Honestly as sci fi books the Brian Herbert novels are fine. But as Dune books, they are freaking ridiculous.
I really enjoyed the other books. Yes they aren't as good as the originals but his son did a good job trying to tie up loose ends using his dad's notes. I think Frank Herbert would be proud that his son even tried to follow in his footsteps. They are a good read and I appreciated having some kind of ending to the story.
I’ve always said that the first Dune movie should be the Butlerian Jihad because it sets up the world why there is a mistrust of machines. Why there are mentats. Why the mind and the spice become important. Why expanding consciousness is more important than increasing technology
Unfortunately this book breaks part of the Dune universe as per Frank Herbert in that the planet Earth is forgotten and regarded as "myth" yet the Butlerian Jihad is not, and the reason for the beginning of it.
The problem I have with the war on the machines is they changed the nature of what the issue was. Originally, to me at least, it felt like the machines were used by the powerful to control the weak. The machines were destroyed to save humanity from stagnation and oppression, not from a robot rebellion.
Read the Road to Dude too, but I like reading them chronology, it builds the backstories!
The Butlerian jihad and the thinking machines remind me of not just the terminators and the cylons, but The Borg, as well.
Sure, sentient computers would definitely need human slaves! I mean it's not like they can use automated factories or something, no siree...
Actually, you can change the font size on your e-reader if letter size an issue. It's a common feature on the good readers:)
12:03 so the Muppet characters Dr.Bunsen and his assistant Beaker got reincarnated in the Butlerian Jihad era ok ......gotcha
Enjoying the journey with you Andre thank you
Honestly...
The aftermath of the Butlerian Jihad would make a great TV mini-series.
If you really think about it.
Even after that conflict and it's horrible aftermath.
Not everyone would be on board for scrapping all that advanced technology and basically going back to square one.
As it would set humanity back thousands of years.
The way I see it. There'd be three major factions.
The first being hell-bent on completely wiping out anything remotely resembling hi-tech and A.I.
The second group wanting to keep the existing technology but, initiate major reforms/restrictions so that
another Butlerian Jihad never happens again.
The third group being divided on this issue but would cast the deciding vote.
I can see major story telling potential here.
I've been using Audible since they started. I listen to 2 books a month. Looking forward to following your series. I am a big fan of Scott Bricks reading of books.
Now you got me wanting to know about the world of Dune!
The (in world) chronological order is best if you start anew. You get the background first. The Brian H./Anderson books are not as deep and philosophical, but more mainstream entertainment - which isn't bad, just different. I like them, and the audiobooks are really great. Scott Brick is one of my favourite book readers.
Awesome vid. Looking forward to the next.
The problem (as Andre points out), at least one of the major ones, of reading it chronologically including the Brian/KJA books this way, is it gives Brian and Kevin a good shot at ruining your experience and understanding of the originals. Halfway through The Butlerian Jihad you _will_ find yourself saying "no fucking way was this what Herbert intended..." and bam, you now have a set of ideas about the jihad that were so obviously not meant to be part of the story, such as pages upon pages about the evil robot dissection of living people, babies, whatever, and you have to just live with it. Did I mention the robots are evil? They sure are! You'll see. They're evil! They really are! Evil!
Oh my science, Midnight's Edge! You are spoiling us today!! :)
We do try;p
I have all the audible books. Here is the complete Dune saga in audio book format, and where to find each segment of story. Some parts are great, others are meh, some are "wtf?". But it is what it is.
I am about to begin my very long run.
Running time Total: (16 Days, 9 Hours, 52 minutes continuous)
Hunting Harkonnens (short story) --- Tales of Dune: Chapter 2
The Butlerian Jihad --- The Butlerian Jihad
Whipping Mek (short story) --- Tales of Dune: Chapter 3
The Machine Crusade --- The Machine Crusade
The Faces of a Martyr (short story) --- Tales of Dune: Chapter 4
The Battle of Corrin --- The Battle of Corrin
Sisterhood of Dune --- Sisterhood of Dune
Mentats of Dune --- Mentats of Dune
Red Plague (short story) --- Tales of Dune: Chapter 5
Navigators of Dune --- Navigators of Dune
House Atreides --- House Atreides
House Harkonnen --- House Harkonnen
House Corrino --- House Corrino
Paul of Dune --- Paul of Dune: Part II - Chapter 4: 03:43:39
Paul of Dune --- Paul of Dune: Part IV - Chapter 7: 08:33:44
Paul of Dune --- Paul of Dune: Part VI - Chapter 12: 13:55:35
Wedding Silk (short story) --- Tales of Dune: Chapter 6
The Winds of Dune --- The Winds of Dune: Part II - Chapter 4
Whisper of Caladan Seas (short story) --- Tales of Dune: Chapter 7
Dune --- Dune
Paul of Dune --- Paul of Dune: Part I - Chapter 1: 00:00:00
Paul of Dune --- Paul of Dune: Part III - Chapter 5: 05:48:36
Paul of Dune --- Paul of Dune: Part V - Chapter 9: 11:03:18
Paul of Dune --- Paul of Dune: Part VII - Chapter 13: 15:41:56
The Winds of Dune --- The Winds of Dune: Part IV - Chapter 9
Dune Messiah --- Dune Messiah
The Winds of Dune --- The Winds of Dune: Part I - Chapter 1
The Winds of Dune --- The Winds of Dune: Part III - Chapter 7
The Winds of Dune --- The Winds of Dune: Part V - Chapter 12
Children of Dune --- Children of Dune
God Emperor of Dune --- God Emperor of Dune
Heretics of Dune --- Heretics of Dune
Sea Child (short story) --- Tales of Dune: Chapter 8
Chapterhouse: Dune --- Chapterhouse: Dune
Hunters of Dune --- Hunters of Dune
Treasure in the Sand (short story) --- Tales of Dune: Chapter 9-End
Sandworms of Dune --- Sandworms of Dune
The Road to Dune --- The Road To Dune (extras)
(comments hate tabs, it seems.)
Oh wow, thanks for this!
I'm excited for this movie. Denis valen...whatever is a fantastic director. Way underrated.
I've watched several of your videos, and decided to subscribe. Now, you're offering me a way to get caught up with the Dune Prequel books in a way that beats reading or listening to them. The least I can do is re-sign up with Audible, which I subscribed to for a few years in the mid 2010s.
I read the first 4 Dune books by Frank Herbert when I was 25, in early 1985. They were excellent. Some of the best Science Fiction I ever read. I got distracted from the series and never got back to it. But with the new Dune movie fast approaching, I plan to re-read the Frank Herbert books I've already read, then the last two books. I won't read the prequels, but will rely on your synopses.
One last thing ... in one of your videos, you mentioned that some people don't like your voice. I think it has character. My teen boys think so, too. Thanks for the excellent videos.
I much like Brian Herbert’s novels. They are much more alive.
Keep going. Interested in your take on the following 5 Frank Herbert books.
I was excited for this video until you mentioned the non frank herbert books.
those are for dune what the disney movies are for star wars. let's just ignore them.
only the frank herbert books are canon.
As a hard core dune fan, it’s a waste of time to deal with anything but Frank Herbert’s Dude.
Very nice review. Entertaining and informative.
Oh Gods, the stuff by Herbert's kid isn't worth wiping your arse on. It shouldn't be the starting place for ANYONE who intends to read the real stuff.
The nu-Dune books were not written of nor conceived of by Frank Herbert. The poor, fannish quality of the writing caused me to stop reading the first one after 75 pages. The choice of characters to focus on ( such as Holtzmann) evidenced a cherrypicking that didn't serve any of the central themes Herbert senior focused on as crucial to the development of the future he envisioned. None of these "prequel" books add anything essential to understanding or even enjoying Frank Herbert's personal Dune works. I consider them a lazily written , non essential cash grab by inferior wordsmiths. That's not saying some people didn't enjoy them , but ice cream doesn't really need a flavorless topping of bland whipped cream to be good.
That Omnius drawing is lol. MCP
Nice of you to be at the helm of my hype train along with QuinnsIdeas!
Most of these 'non-six' books, including this one are NOT available on Audible in the UK. Don't know about elsewhere.... So check before signing up..
Haha you should collaborate with Quinn's ideas, as you both happen to be doing the same thing. Enjoy!
I bet the original meaning or intention of 'Butlerian Jihad' was to be an uprising of butler robots/AI.
I agree with Midnight's Edge.
I wasn't particularly inspired by the casting of Paul and Chani in the new movie. The Muad D'ib in this case looks a 12 yr old boy who falls head over heels for a girl, who looks like she has the body of a 12 yr old boy. Best case scenario: I can't imagine we will see much on screen chemistry between the two. And this relationship is so important to the story. Worst case: Hollyweird perverted projection again. And these days nothing would surprise about that place.
The Butlerian Jihad brought about a ban on all computers, not just AI. I've never read the prequels. To me they aren't cannon. They don't contained Frank Herbert's ideas and stories. They certainly aren't necessary, and only water down a series that was already out of steam.
Brian Herbert's books are of such a lower quality compared to Frank's work, it's just sad.
there are SIX 'dune' novels.
This is set after the Skynet.
Very detailed and thorough explanation of the Back Story. You've sparked my interest in the prequel books. Thank you for this.
You're welcome.
Great video! Thank you, sir. I stopped it short of the spoiler section, but will continue after I have read the Butlerian Jihad. I'm reading thru Children of Dune at the moment.
BTW, another enjoyable Man vs. Machine series is the Berzerker series by Fred Saberhagen. There was supposed to be a movie about 10 years ago, but it never actually got made.
Looking forward to more of these videos and, of course, the upcoming movie! Let's hope it's great!
Big brained Andre will take us through Dune oeuvre
Thanks Andre!
Filler and Fluff ends at 6:18
Kudos on your pronunciation of Denis Villeneuve, you did it like a real French man!
Oui oui
I read the six while writing my MA thesis. It helped my concentration and what I called my "internal articulation" the flowing of words for my writing.
i’m doing this exact same thing!!! i started with The Butlerian Jihad and took it from there, i’m now reading Children of Dune