Caps ain't a problem for me...I got too many! same goes for 209's! I'm about to find a forum in my area and list some of mine for trade for metallic cartridge primers.
That was a pretty nice group size with the Lee 160s and 250s. I've been loading those 160 grain Lee's in my '58 Uberti 44 with 24 gr. Pyrodex P and it penetrates 6" into the endgrain of pine cordwood. I am tempted by the Howell .45 LC cylinder, maybe Midway will mark it down soon. I sometimes carry the Uberti '58 for protection around the property, shortened it to 4" and removed the loading lever. Howell's sells a latch the holds in the cylinder pin instead of the loading lever, It's pretty handy to change cylinders quick. Thanks for the great videos!
@@brianalbee4153 Thanks. For me, the conversion cylinders are attractive because of my reloading and casting situation. Having to purchase ammo would put a huge wrinkle into it. The cost of the cylinders, especially a Kirst, dampens enthusiasm, however they are high quality, and need to command their price. I’ve been temped for years, then I came across a used 1860 Uberti and Howell cylinder never fired with Black, for the price of the gun. Now I’m down the rabbit hole, but enjoy it. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Kirst definitely makes a high quality product. I appreciate they offer cylinders for heeled bullets in the .38 also and their products are made in the US
@@leadisgood Thanks. Paper isn’t as exciting or entertaining, but it’s cheap, and more importantly, a way to find out what the gun, bullet, or whatever is capable of. Once known, then move on to see what the shooter can do. I wonder how many people assume a gun shoots where it’s aimed? O.R.
@oldranger3044 not many take time to shoot at paper and find where the POI is.Too often they post a video shooting at steel plates at 10 yards,that's it. When I got my old army conversion cylinders it took bit to get the POI where I wanted playing with various bullet weights and charges. On another note -I walked into a local shop and snagged 800 #10 caps..woohooo..
@@leadisgood 8K. Too bad you had to edit. Several years ago Cabelas had a sale on CCI’s. I want to say around $130/5K. I ordered 10K but they never showed up. After a month I noticed they were available and called, and they said that after 30 days the computer cancelled back orders. That was pure Sh.., but since they were still available (good old days) I did order and received 5K. Happy ending, but I’m still thinking their computer programmer owes me. O.R.
Darn! Now you got me thinking about my twists, and jumping in on a Conversion cylinder for my tops, my idea was mostly for my 58 but it is so old it's hard to narrow down the correct overall length 45 LC cylinder, as my 11 yr old self removed the manufacturer and serial info when I Buit her in 76. Memory serves she's 2. 05" over all, and a Pietta's is 2.17" but have not visited this in some time.
My brother offered me a free gated kit with ejection rod for an 1851/1860 Pietta, but I declined. I wish I'd said yeah I'll take it, but what held me back was Pietta's Colt twist rate (Uberti Colts are generally fine) and the fact of how weak Colt frame to arbor fit is. One example is I stuffed (not a full cylinder, but 45 grns if I recall correctly) a new Uberti Walker straight out of the box with 777 and round balls and the gun disassembled it's self in my hand on the first six rounds. I just don't trust the Colts with anything over 38 spcl. All of my conversions are on Remington frames whether gated or drop in, but also I grew up hunting and therefore I work up loads for my conversions depending on the cylinder and frame of the gun rather than the recommendations of the cylinder manufacturers...or in other words I don't stick to target loads and the Colt frames don't make much sense for my uses. I still sometimes think I'd like to grind one for a gate and keep special BP/LP loads for it IDK.
@@hercules1073 The Kirst I stumbled upon is for the pietta 1858 and has the cutout frame. Basically nice but being older has the slower twist but does ok. I get your point about the colt styles for your applications. That 45 grains of 777 would be the real load. You can probably be happy it was with a RBall. Availability for the Pietta 51’s are difficult to find now but maybe Kirst is doing them. Probably because there’s a lot of Pietta brass frames out there in 44, and sooner or later someone will need to “find out if they’re lucky” 🙁. Thanks for the info. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 When it comes to the Pietta's a conversion cylinder is interchangeable between the 1860 and 1851 44's. The same is true with some other Pietta frames in 36 to 38 spcl. Pietta has pretty much simplified their frame production and although they may not be exact replicas it does almost guarantee good barrel to frame fit with modern production Pietta's... not a hundred percent, but pretty close. I have gotten a couple bad ones in the past few years.
I shot my 1860 Pietta with the attached butt stock today with a 5 shot conversion cylinder. I had 5 reloads using the 255 gr. Lee cast as is bullets which shot high, as usual. Then I switched to store bought Armscor 255 gr. which were useless in the Pietta. They are semi-wadcutters and are a smaller diameter that only seem to work accurately in my Uberti 1858 Remington conversion cylinder. I will have to take the 1858 back to the range to see if they do work. My short term memory is pretty much shot nowadays.
@@robertrobert7924 And some folks have wondered why I have small tags on some of my guns. Well, let’s just say they aren’t for sale tags, they remind me of how they shoot with certain load and bullet. Sure, I could write it somewhere in some notebook that I won’t be able to find, or even remember that I’ve got. Yup, it’s getting tougher. Keep safe, and have fun with what’s left of summer. O.R.
@@jackwagonhoedown4114 Thanks for the info as some that don’t cast can find a good variety from bullet manufacturers. I realized later that I should have mentioned this. O.R.
I had to look twice at the group fired with the 250 gr Lee bullet, I hate it when that happens, it (Although you try not) put's outward pressure on you when shooting. you almost always try to not screw up a great thing that happened. It's human nature. I don't know how many times I shot a ragged hole @ 25 yards during the first string of timed or rapid fire just to have the next five shots be 9's and a few 8s in there, Oh, and then (Since the pressure is off because you already screwed it up) do another string where they are all 10's and X's, 🤔It's all about putting too much pressure on yourself. But back to your pistol, It's a shooter and that load shot great, Just adjust that front sight a bit and you have a winner. Nice Video and an inspiration to all that watch your channel. Peace - Dave
@@thorsaxe5881 Dave, you forced my hand. Years ago, indoor pistol league we had a handicap match coming up. Figured I could use a low score, so I had no pressure. I shot my highest score of the season. You are so right about the self pressure. For some folks it’s unavoidable. Others eat it like candy. There was an officer in our league that in practice could outshoot everyone. He never went to a match, I think because he couldn’t preform. It just meant too much to him, and the low score would have destroyed his self image or something like that. I completely agree with what you are saying about pressure and it’s not what’s going on in the gun chamber, it’s the one between the ears. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Funny, I got to a point where I wouldn't look at the first string of five shots in TF and RP, just shoot the whole 10 shots, then when the target was turned so we could score them that's when I would give it a gander, I would (Area) aim at the center of the black and in TF I would take my time, In RF I would wait for the "Ready on the firing line" (Count in my head 1,2,3,)Aiming at what I could see of the black, I would center my sight on it and as soon as I saw the target was starting to turn, I would crank that shot off before the target faced me, Funny, usually that was a 10 or an X, I looked at that as a freebee because the time doesn't start till the target faces you and then I had 10 seconds to shoot four rounds instead of five. I got so where I would tell myself Ten Ten's beat nine X's in my head all day at a 2700 just so the Match pressure wouldn't build, also, I got so I would never look at the score board ether until the match was over. You are right though, after you get to know the people out at a match after shooting a couple of years, you really see the ones that are Ego driven, people that quit after the second string of slow fire in the centerfire portion of the 2700, they pack up an go home. these were people that you used to think they were really good. However, their over confidence in themselves could not withstand the damage of just doing Okay that day.
@@thorsaxe5881 So, my Mother was slightly concerned that when my brother was born, somehow the hospital did a mistaken switch. Maybe so, seems at least in the shooting world we have common ground. I do the same thing in SF. I can’t shoot slow. I’m better off not looking at the targets, but nobody else will retrieve or post. The more time I take, the lower are the scores. I shoot tighter groups in RF. Anyway, thanks for sharing, and have a great summer, what’s left of it. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 I try not to sound like I'm giving expert advice, as you said, It's what works for me and that's how I shoot best. One thing is true, you can spend too much time trying to make perfect shots, and also making perfect ammunition with a bunch of work to it, My scores when up considerably when I started making ammo on my Dillon 550, it took stress of my mind when I went to shoot the ammo. trying to be perfect leads to disappointment and that is Negativity in your head. So, I already talked your ear off and I agree, we smoke the same cigar on a lot of subjects. - Dave
Great presentation. I have a .45 Colt Howell but only for my Uberti 1858 NMA that works great. The Rems are a lot more convenient for Howells than the Colts and do hold 6 vs 5. in .45. Any particular reason you went with the .45 Schofield brass rather than .45 Colt to start ? (which I often do with BP and was militarily historically correct some time after about 1874-75 ) I suspect a "4.0 gr charge" if I read your sharpie notation correctly. ( But you need not confirm nor deny 🙂) .But what powder and data source did you use? Excellent groups. The BP chamber fouling rings are much easier to simply wipe out when using the shorter Schofield brass in .45 Colt chambers than the vigorous scrubbing needed to remove the smokeless powder rings. (as with ,38 in ,357) Looking forward to more chapters on your conversion cylinder saga. ❤DJ
Yes, the 4 really hits the Bullseye. Maybe you noticed the speeds actually increased as weight went up, which I did not expect. Maybe someone can explain that, but till then, I'm thinking that the heavier ones change the burn somehow to get more energy out of the powder. The Schofield was handy, and I had some bad tumbling going on with the L.C. brass, but never dug to the bottom of that rabbit hole (yet). No, wait, it was with the C. Special, and I figured there was too long skip into the throat (too bad to, because shortly before that experience I ordered 500 because as it was in stock). So, just figured that less case length would give better consistent speeds. By the way, check the speeds on the sized 250 gr at .450. Maybe just got lucky, I've never had 5 shots with that small Dev before. Lyman 45th Ed. 45 LC starting, giving approx 600 f/s, which is well under what Black Hills lists for their CB stuff, and I figured the Schofield brass wouldn't (and didn't) give much higher seeds. Thanks again for the ring info. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 What powder did you use? (maybe I get it 😲 Bullseye ! ? ) BTW the Lyman Cast Bullet Manual (I have the 4th Ed) has actual 45 Schofield data. for 250gr cast lead with BE : Start 4.2 743 10,400 Max 4.7 802 11,900 7 1/2 " brl 👍❤ DJ
@@dorisjohnson8857 Wow, that’s a classic edition. Thanks for the info. Yes, it’s a great powder, started using it in the 60’s-70’s, it’s what my uncle recommended. I’ve never seen data for the Schofield. Appears I was pretty close. Thanks😀. O.
Right about the neighbor idea. Maybe in the next life, something to look forward to. I'd rather not go into detail on that because of platform, but check out the first target shot, and it's a "Bullseye" target.
@oldranger3044 Got ya, i was tryin to read the targets, I'll have to look harder. So stupid you can say if you're sittin a round ball on top but if there is brass between the powder n breech then that is sketchy territory 🤤. Im just not smart enough to make sense of it. 🤷♂️
@@jacobwilbert1018 Yes, when using black powder in a cartridge case, that case should be full from the bottom to top where the bullet is. Modern powder (smokeless) is different and does not have this requirement. So, when putting black powder into the chambers, the ball needs to go down far enough to touch the powder, leaving no air space. Hope this helps to explain. O.R.
Yes, one concern is that for whatever reason, the speeds can vary sometimes by 100+, and I'd rather that not end up with that outlier in the 8 or 9 hundreds with the conversion cylinders, which are more or less for plinking anyway. Been enjoying your vids. O.R.
@oldranger3044 and be reason for this variations but I only 3 basics places to start but again kinda hard to add a lending hand through typing as you know. Good to be cautious. Uum there's a channel called William C Chapin. Today his video was a 30 herrett Thompson center. Caliber not relevant, however he to had the same issues with a couple hundred fps differences in velocity. He talks through some of the potential issues. Don't know if it will help
One point that is maybe not important to you with your setup but really important to me as I move around a lot to several locations. I have had chronos (screen type) for several decades and just got sick of setting the darn things up and having dead 9volt batteries and worst of all? ERROR and duplicate readings which to me spells ERROR LOL So I splurged... Garmin chrono. it is not much bigger than a pack of cigs. It is usb rechargeable... it comes with a tiny little tripod that you set on your bench. Meaning it goes into my shooting Halliburton case always and takes 20 sec or so to set up. It has never not read... it has never had duplicate readings (in a row) it seems to be extremely accurate.... it will give you energy numbers! Rifle handgun... bow and arrow... BB gun... I have tried em all. we are gonna try throwing a ball past it LOl Expensive but.... one of the best things I have bought for my hobby.
@@doranmaxwell1755 All right. I just sold my 440 JD pole skidded, and that sounds like my kind of scum. Really appreciate the info. Wonder if that’s what Jake at everything black powder just purchased. Thanks. O.R.
Seeing is believing and I know you are scrupulous. You are also a very good shot. My buddy and I also consider ourselves 'good' shots. Sooo... our experience is that both my Uberti 1860 and his Remington 1858 have bores of 454+ In order to get anything close to accurate we had to ream our cylinders to .453+ and now get somewhat similar results but not quite as accurate as your groups. Granted we shoot from 30 yards. He bought a conversion cyl in 45 Colt and he handfloads as do I.. His loads used the 250 bullet from a commercial caster at 451 and the accuracy was not great. Bad enough that he gave up one shooting 45 Colt altogether. For our percussion loads we now us .457 cast or Speer ball. We are now getting similar groups to yours but bigger (2.5+ inch groups at 30 yards) We are very happy with those I note that you have a vid on velocity vs sizing that I will watch now. I wiil say that we run a lot more velocity with the 457 ball at a tad over 820 fps average so maybe we should try different velocities but I am making paper cartridges and they depend on the pyrodex pellets at 30 grains.
Yes, 30 makes quite a difference over 21-22. I have to ask about how you are dealing with the lube thing. From the mid 80's till fairly recent, I was pretty convinced I couldn't avoid the more than occasional flyer, but that was with mostly the 36 calibers. At that time I did try some 2nd Gen colt 44 stuff like the Walker, 3rd Dragoon, and 1860. That didn't help either. About 6 years ago (maybe it was 10), I got a good deal at a gun show on a couple of 44's. Sold one to a neighbor (brass frame Pietta 1860) and was helping him get started. I was impressed with the groups. What I believe I've discovered (after reading stuff by Paul Matthews) is how important it is to keep the fouling soft. If you haven't, maybe checkout some of his books (his deal with BP cartridge rifles). I started playing with the idea of lube, and it seems to work better than anything so far. I sure tried the larger chambers on the 36 calibers back then, and that didn't do anything, which makes sense, actually, if things don't take the rifling because of the fouling (and I have no idea why), then may as well have a smooth bore. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Great conversation. mostly I lube the bore ahead of time. I generally use felt wads. I use a mixture of real sheep tallow and beeswax onto real felt and a punch to make em a tad over. I don't do oversize chambers I do chamber bore matches as close as possible then use an oversized ball. for instance my 44 guns are .453+ bore and .453+ chamber and I use a .457 ball. with a .454 ball I notice lack of accuracy and.... more fouling. With a .457 ball I get a very large bearing surface of .453+ making the ball more capsule shaped. Not sure I am explaining this right. What happens is that they larger bearing surface and larger dia of it scours the bore as the ball goes through it also building up pressure. That last is easily seen in the velocity readings. The other thing is something I know is right but people have to witness. I make my cleaning solution for all my guns smokeless or BP from an old formula with a few mods. It is Ed's Red equal parts of automatic transmission fluid and kerosene and mineral spirits and acetone... to that I add a few ounces per pint of pure lanolin and some amyl acetate ... the latter for odor (it is a solvent used in scented candle making) This makes the finest CLP I have ever tried and I have tried em all I think. it is a penetrant. It will loosen stuck bolts etc... the important part of that is that it penetrates the metal. I KNOW this to be true becuase I have nickel plated 3 of my BP revolvers and various other things like tools... The most important things to nickel plating are #1 polishing and two cleaning. any amount of oil will wreck the process.. any imperfection in the metal will show... After hours of buffing to a chrome like bare metal finish and then using commercial cleaning methods.. the guns just did not want to plate as well as expected. the reason is that some of the Ed's red had penetrated into the metal enough that even polishing and boiling in chemicals did not entirely remove it. If you stayed this long LOL... what I do to clean my bp guns is to run em under really hot water till the metal is so hot I can't hold it and use a toothbrush/mop to help clean... once I don't see any obvious bp left I use the ER to slather the gun in. None of my guns... smokeless or bp have a spot of rust. I keep a rag that has been treated with it over my safe. I wipe down the guns if I handle em. wiping em makes em look like a really good bluing job. I have even cleaned bp guns with no water and only the Ed's Red version I make.
@@doranmaxwell1755 No problem, I “Red” everything. Lots of interesting data-information. I only use hot water to clean also , and then light coat of oil. I was testing some BP that had a mixture of charred peas to see if the fouling would be softened or something so progressive shots would clean it out. Anyway, I needed to see how it compared to pure black, so first cylinder was with the pure black. Much to my surprise, one or two dry patches did it. I then thought (because it was Graff not GOEX, that the Graff was giving less or softer fouling. Wrong, because I did 6 more and it took several wet patches to get the barrel clean. Point being, that small amount of oil from cleaning maybe prevented initial fouling build up. Possibly why some folks that don’t fire several cylinders, get decent groups from that first cylinder. Lots of interesting paths to take in the Black Powder Woods, take care. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 You may not believe this but I clean with hot water and a shotgun swab on a cleaning rod. There is really never much fouling anyway. I normally shoot at least 3 cylinders before cleaning. Never use patches. I have 410 shotgun swabs and have three for each caliber. the first really dirty one I rinse till sorta clean then use the next cleanest one By then the bores/cyl look very clean. The last clean swab has a light coat of my Ed's Red and I run it through the bores/cyl What I think is happening is two things. One.... using the oversize balls (a couple thou or so more than bore) an reaming the cyls to as close to bore size as possible allows the bearing surface of the ball to fully engage the grooves which scours the groves... next... The Ed's Red penetrates the metal of the bore (whole gun actually) No gun I own has any rust at all on em... wiped once in a while with Ed's Red I can sell you this miracle product for a mere $500 a pint!!! LOL...just kidding make it yourself pennies an ounce. If you want to stay married tho get the Amy Acetate scent/solvent The acetone is pretty strong but this neutralizes it wih a few ounces per quart. Ok.... lastly (unless I think of something else) My theory as stated is that I get more pressure hence velocity by fully engaging the grooves in the rifling .... As stated I also believe that the fouling (to an extent) is scoured out each shot. I may have mentioned that I bought the Garmin Chron recently One of the first guns tested was my 1860 Colt clone Bore .453 Cyl .453 ball .457 The first shot with my paper cartridges (pyrodex 30 grain pellet with a home made wad followed by a .457 ball and rolled in a zig zag 1.5 paper) The first shot was... 769.3 then 791.4 then 856.9 then 825.8 Then 866.1Then 837.7 Then a nasty hangfire but still read 702.5 Then 830.2 Then 806.6 then another 6 all in the low 800's To me..... it seems that with no fouling the first two shots were a tad low in velocity with velocity going up after that and leveling off around 820?
@@doranmaxwell1755 I’m pondering between the garment and the LabRadar as there is about $250 difference. Portability isn’t an issue for me. Anyway, any thoughts ? I’m always low on the first shot. What is different would seem to be the barrel. Second cylinder always more, I get that reason (I think). I’ll be checking out the Red. Right now I’m off track with some more modern 38 stuff. Enjoying the retro trip back to the 70’s. Nothing black, or semi auto. I definitely won’t live long enough for them. With a good dot and ammo, pretty much a ragged hole at the 21 yard mark. I like that. Some days my eyes do ok also with the irons. What did you use to ream the chambers? Probably not the.375 drill press that I butchered a couple of 2nd gen colt cylinders with. “ man’s got to start learning somewhere” , and that won’t happen in most school rooms. O.R.
I wish we could find caps. Cylinder conversions make a lot of sense now. Thank you for the video 👍
Good point. The primers are expensive, but at least more available. O.R.
Caps ain't a problem for me...I got too many! same goes for 209's! I'm about to find a forum in my area and list some of mine for trade for metallic cartridge primers.
@@hercules1073 I know a guy (not me) that might trade his wife for a couple K if they’re Remingtons. 🤔. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Lol... they're CCI... I haven't had Remington's in a while now.
That was a pretty nice group size with the Lee 160s and 250s. I've been loading those 160 grain Lee's in my '58 Uberti 44 with 24 gr. Pyrodex P and it penetrates 6" into the endgrain of pine cordwood. I am tempted by the Howell .45 LC cylinder, maybe Midway will mark it down soon.
I sometimes carry the Uberti '58 for protection around the property, shortened it to 4" and removed the loading lever. Howell's sells a latch the holds in the cylinder pin instead of the loading lever, It's pretty handy to change cylinders quick. Thanks for the great videos!
@@brianalbee4153 Thanks. For me, the conversion cylinders are attractive because of my reloading and casting situation. Having to purchase ammo would put a huge wrinkle into it. The cost of the cylinders, especially a Kirst, dampens enthusiasm, however they are high quality, and need to command their price. I’ve been temped for years, then I came across a used 1860 Uberti and Howell cylinder never fired with Black, for the price of the gun. Now I’m down the rabbit hole, but enjoy it. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Kirst definitely makes a high quality product. I appreciate they offer cylinders for heeled bullets in the .38 also and their products are made in the US
I really enjoy your channel,You shoot at paper and show results.
@@leadisgood Thanks. Paper isn’t as exciting or entertaining, but it’s cheap, and more importantly, a way to find out what the gun, bullet, or whatever is capable of. Once known, then move on to see what the shooter can do. I wonder how many people assume a gun shoots where it’s aimed? O.R.
@oldranger3044 not many take time to shoot at paper and find where the POI is.Too often they post a video shooting at steel plates at 10 yards,that's it.
When I got my old army conversion cylinders it took bit to get the POI where I wanted playing with various bullet weights and charges.
On another note -I walked into a local shop and snagged 800 #10 caps..woohooo..
@leadisgood
Wow, what was the bill on that?
@jacobwilbert1018 ten bucks a tin.
And I meant eight hundred not eight thousand I should will edit my comment.
@@leadisgood 8K. Too bad you had to edit. Several years ago Cabelas had a sale on CCI’s. I want to say around $130/5K. I ordered 10K but they never showed up. After a month I noticed they were available and called, and they said that after 30 days the computer cancelled back orders. That was pure Sh.., but since they were still available (good old days) I did order and received 5K. Happy ending, but I’m still thinking their computer programmer owes me. O.R.
Darn! Now you got me thinking about my twists, and jumping in on a Conversion cylinder for my tops, my idea was mostly for my 58 but it is so old it's hard to narrow down the correct overall length 45 LC cylinder, as my 11 yr old self removed the manufacturer and serial info when I Buit her in 76.
Memory serves she's 2. 05" over all, and a Pietta's is 2.17" but have not visited this in some time.
Sometimes, things at rest, should remain at rest. O.R.
Your videos are always enjoyable.
Glad you like them!
Interesting video...!
Fyi... Its just "45 Colt", Not long Colt
Very easy conversion I've done several on 1860 army's
My brother offered me a free gated kit with ejection rod for an 1851/1860 Pietta, but I declined. I wish I'd said yeah I'll take it, but what held me back was Pietta's Colt twist rate (Uberti Colts are generally fine) and the fact of how weak Colt frame to arbor fit is. One example is I stuffed (not a full cylinder, but 45 grns if I recall correctly) a new Uberti Walker straight out of the box with 777 and round balls and the gun disassembled it's self in my hand on the first six rounds. I just don't trust the Colts with anything over 38 spcl. All of my conversions are on Remington frames whether gated or drop in, but also I grew up hunting and therefore I work up loads for my conversions depending on the cylinder and frame of the gun rather than the recommendations of the cylinder manufacturers...or in other words I don't stick to target loads and the Colt frames don't make much sense for my uses. I still sometimes think I'd like to grind one for a gate and keep special BP/LP loads for it IDK.
@@hercules1073 The Kirst I stumbled upon is for the pietta 1858 and has the cutout frame. Basically nice but being older has the slower twist but does ok. I get your point about the colt styles for your applications. That 45 grains of 777 would be the real load. You can probably be happy it was with a RBall. Availability for the Pietta 51’s are difficult to find now but maybe Kirst is doing them. Probably because there’s a lot of Pietta brass frames out there in 44, and sooner or later someone will need to “find out if they’re lucky” 🙁. Thanks for the info. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 When it comes to the Pietta's a conversion cylinder is interchangeable between the 1860 and 1851 44's. The same is true with some other Pietta frames in 36 to 38 spcl. Pietta has pretty much simplified their frame production and although they may not be exact replicas it does almost guarantee good barrel to frame fit with modern production Pietta's... not a hundred percent, but pretty close. I have gotten a couple bad ones in the past few years.
Thanks, great info
"Hell I am retired, so I can't do that." 🤣
I shot my 1860 Pietta with the attached butt stock today with a 5 shot conversion cylinder. I had 5 reloads using the 255 gr. Lee cast as is bullets which shot high, as usual. Then I switched to store bought Armscor 255 gr. which were useless in the Pietta. They are semi-wadcutters and are a smaller diameter that only seem to work accurately in my Uberti 1858 Remington conversion cylinder. I will have to take the 1858 back to the range to see if they do work. My short term memory is pretty much shot nowadays.
@@robertrobert7924 And some folks have wondered why I have small tags on some of my guns. Well, let’s just say they aren’t for sale tags, they remind me of how they shoot with certain load and bullet. Sure, I could write it somewhere in some notebook that I won’t be able to find, or even remember that I’ve got. Yup, it’s getting tougher. Keep safe, and have fun with what’s left of summer. O.R.
I use a Hunters Supply .454 diameter 200 grain hollow point.
.45 Schofield brass with 30 grains Pyrodex P…
@@jackwagonhoedown4114 Thanks for the info as some that don’t cast can find a good variety from bullet manufacturers. I realized later that I should have mentioned this. O.R.
I had to look twice at the group fired with the 250 gr Lee bullet, I hate it when that happens, it (Although you try not) put's outward pressure on you when shooting. you almost always try to not screw up a great thing that happened. It's human nature. I don't know how many times I shot a ragged hole @ 25 yards during the first string of timed or rapid fire just to have the next five shots be 9's and a few 8s in there, Oh, and then (Since the pressure is off because you already screwed it up) do another string where they are all 10's and X's, 🤔It's all about putting too much pressure on yourself. But back to your pistol, It's a shooter and that load shot great, Just adjust that front sight a bit and you have a winner. Nice Video and an inspiration to all that watch your channel. Peace - Dave
@@thorsaxe5881 Dave, you forced my hand. Years ago, indoor pistol league we had a handicap match coming up. Figured I could use a low score, so I had no pressure. I shot my highest score of the season.
You are so right about the self pressure. For some folks it’s unavoidable. Others eat it like candy. There was an officer in our league that in practice could outshoot everyone. He never went to a match, I think because he couldn’t preform. It just meant too much to him, and the low score would have destroyed his self image or something like that. I completely agree with what you are saying about pressure and it’s not what’s going on in the gun chamber, it’s the one between the ears. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Funny, I got to a point where I wouldn't look at the first string of five shots in TF and RP, just shoot the whole 10 shots, then when the target was turned so we could score them that's when I would give it a gander, I would (Area) aim at the center of the black and in TF I would take my time, In RF I would wait for the "Ready on the firing line" (Count in my head 1,2,3,)Aiming at what I could see of the black, I would center my sight on it and as soon as I saw the target was starting to turn, I would crank that shot off before the target faced me, Funny, usually that was a 10 or an X, I looked at that as a freebee because the time doesn't start till the target faces you and then I had 10 seconds to shoot four rounds instead of five. I got so where I would tell myself Ten Ten's beat nine X's in my head all day at a 2700 just so the Match pressure wouldn't build, also, I got so I would never look at the score board ether until the match was over. You are right though, after you get to know the people out at a match after shooting a couple of years, you really see the ones that are Ego driven, people that quit after the second string of slow fire in the centerfire portion of the 2700, they pack up an go home. these were people that you used to think they were really good. However, their over confidence in themselves could not withstand the damage of just doing Okay that day.
@@thorsaxe5881 So, my Mother was slightly concerned that when my brother was born, somehow the hospital did a mistaken switch. Maybe so, seems at least in the shooting world we have common ground. I do the same thing in SF. I can’t shoot slow. I’m better off not looking at the targets, but nobody else will retrieve or post. The more time I take, the lower are the scores. I shoot tighter groups in RF. Anyway, thanks for sharing, and have a great summer, what’s left of it. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 I try not to sound like I'm giving expert advice, as you said, It's what works for me and that's how I shoot best. One thing is true, you can spend too much time trying to make perfect shots, and also making perfect ammunition with a bunch of work to it, My scores when up considerably when I started making ammo on my Dillon 550, it took stress of my mind when I went to shoot the ammo. trying to be perfect leads to disappointment and that is Negativity in your head. So, I already talked your ear off and I agree, we smoke the same cigar on a lot of subjects. - Dave
Enjoy the video ranger thank you sir
Glad you enjoyed. O.R.
Great presentation. I have a .45 Colt Howell but only for my Uberti 1858 NMA that works great. The Rems are a lot more convenient for Howells than the Colts and do hold 6 vs 5. in .45. Any particular reason you went with the .45 Schofield brass rather than .45 Colt to start ? (which I often do with BP and was militarily historically correct some time after about 1874-75 ) I suspect a "4.0 gr charge" if I read your sharpie notation correctly. ( But you need not confirm nor deny 🙂) .But what powder and data source did you use? Excellent groups. The BP chamber fouling rings are much easier to simply wipe out when using the shorter Schofield brass in .45 Colt chambers than the vigorous scrubbing needed to remove the smokeless powder rings. (as with ,38 in ,357) Looking forward to more chapters on your conversion cylinder saga. ❤DJ
Yes, the 4 really hits the Bullseye. Maybe you noticed the speeds actually increased as weight went up, which I did not expect. Maybe someone can explain that, but till then, I'm thinking that the heavier ones change the burn somehow to get more energy out of the powder. The Schofield was handy, and I had some bad tumbling going on with the L.C. brass, but never dug to the bottom of that rabbit hole (yet). No, wait, it was with the C. Special, and I figured there was too long skip into the throat (too bad to, because shortly before that experience I ordered 500 because as it was in stock). So, just figured that less case length would give better consistent speeds. By the way, check the speeds on the sized 250 gr at .450. Maybe just got lucky, I've never had 5 shots with that small Dev before. Lyman 45th Ed. 45 LC starting, giving approx 600 f/s, which is well under what Black Hills lists for their CB stuff, and I figured the Schofield brass wouldn't (and didn't) give much higher seeds. Thanks again for the ring info. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 What powder did you use? (maybe I get it 😲 Bullseye ! ? ) BTW the Lyman Cast Bullet Manual (I have the 4th Ed) has actual 45 Schofield data. for 250gr cast lead with BE : Start 4.2 743 10,400 Max 4.7 802 11,900 7 1/2 " brl 👍❤ DJ
@@dorisjohnson8857 Wow, that’s a classic edition. Thanks for the info. Yes, it’s a great powder, started using it in the 60’s-70’s, it’s what my uncle recommended. I’ve never seen data for the Schofield. Appears I was pretty close. Thanks😀. O.
That gun will shoot. BTY Midway let me know earlier in the week that caps were in stock.
Thanks, I'll check into that. O.R.
You are livin the life my friend, wish we were neighbors 😂.
What charge were you using in that Schofield brass?
Right about the neighbor idea. Maybe in the next life, something to look forward to. I'd rather not go into detail on that because of platform, but check out the first target shot, and it's a "Bullseye" target.
@oldranger3044
Got ya, i was tryin to read the targets, I'll have to look harder. So stupid you can say if you're sittin a round ball on top but if there is brass between the powder n breech then that is sketchy territory 🤤.
Im just not smart enough to make sense of it. 🤷♂️
@@jacobwilbert1018 Yes, when using black powder in a cartridge case, that case should be full from the bottom to top where the bullet is. Modern powder (smokeless) is different and does not have this requirement. So, when putting black powder into the chambers, the ball needs to go down far enough to touch the powder, leaving no air space. Hope this helps to explain. O.R.
@oldranger3044
Yes yes common now, i thought you were holdin back cuz of the youtube "platform"
I finally made it. I know you can't say the load. That's mighty slow. Yep that's my experience uberti larger than peitta.
Mountain man
Yes, one concern is that for whatever reason, the speeds can vary sometimes by 100+, and I'd rather that not end up with that outlier in the 8 or 9 hundreds with the conversion cylinders, which are more or less for plinking anyway. Been enjoying your vids. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 glad to hear it
@oldranger3044 and be reason for this variations but I only 3 basics places to start but again kinda hard to add a lending hand through typing as you know. Good to be cautious. Uum there's a channel called William C Chapin. Today his video was a 30 herrett Thompson center. Caliber not relevant, however he to had the same issues with a couple hundred fps differences in velocity. He talks through some of the potential issues. Don't know if it will help
One point that is maybe not important to you with your setup but really important to me as I move around a lot to several locations. I have had chronos (screen type) for several decades and just got sick of setting the darn things up and having dead 9volt batteries and worst of all? ERROR and duplicate readings which to me spells ERROR LOL So I splurged... Garmin chrono. it is not much bigger than a pack of cigs. It is usb rechargeable... it comes with a tiny little tripod that you set on your bench. Meaning it goes into my shooting Halliburton case always and takes 20 sec or so to set up. It has never not read... it has never had duplicate readings (in a row) it seems to be extremely accurate.... it will give you energy numbers! Rifle handgun... bow and arrow... BB gun... I have tried em all. we are gonna try throwing a ball past it LOl Expensive but.... one of the best things I have bought for my hobby.
@@doranmaxwell1755 All right. I just sold my 440 JD pole skidded, and that sounds like my kind of scum. Really appreciate the info. Wonder if that’s what Jake at everything black powder just purchased. Thanks. O.R.
Seeing is believing and I know you are scrupulous. You are also a very good shot. My buddy and I also consider ourselves 'good' shots. Sooo... our experience is that both my Uberti 1860 and his Remington 1858 have bores of 454+ In order to get anything close to accurate we had to ream our cylinders to .453+ and now get somewhat similar results but not quite as accurate as your groups. Granted we shoot from 30 yards. He bought a conversion cyl in 45 Colt and he handfloads as do I.. His loads used the 250 bullet from a commercial caster at 451 and the accuracy was not great. Bad enough that he gave up one shooting 45 Colt altogether. For our percussion loads we now us .457 cast or Speer ball. We are now getting similar groups to yours but bigger (2.5+ inch groups at 30 yards) We are very happy with those I note that you have a vid on velocity vs sizing that I will watch now. I wiil say that we run a lot more velocity with the 457 ball at a tad over 820 fps average so maybe we should try different velocities but I am making paper cartridges and they depend on the pyrodex pellets at 30 grains.
Yes, 30 makes quite a difference over 21-22. I have to ask about how you are dealing with the lube thing. From the mid 80's till fairly recent, I was pretty convinced I couldn't avoid the more than occasional flyer, but that was with mostly the 36 calibers. At that time I did try some 2nd Gen colt 44 stuff like the Walker, 3rd Dragoon, and 1860. That didn't help either. About 6 years ago (maybe it was 10), I got a good deal at a gun show on a couple of 44's. Sold one to a neighbor (brass frame Pietta 1860) and was helping him get started. I was impressed with the groups. What I believe I've discovered (after reading stuff by Paul Matthews) is how important it is to keep the fouling soft. If you haven't, maybe checkout some of his books (his deal with BP cartridge rifles). I started playing with the idea of lube, and it seems to work better than anything so far. I sure tried the larger chambers on the 36 calibers back then, and that didn't do anything, which makes sense, actually, if things don't take the rifling because of the fouling (and I have no idea why), then may as well have a smooth bore. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Great conversation. mostly I lube the bore ahead of time. I generally use felt wads. I use a mixture of real sheep tallow and beeswax onto real felt and a punch to make em a tad over. I don't do oversize chambers I do chamber bore matches as close as possible then use an oversized ball. for instance my 44 guns are .453+ bore and .453+ chamber and I use a .457 ball. with a .454 ball I notice lack of accuracy and.... more fouling. With a .457 ball I get a very large bearing surface of .453+ making the ball more capsule shaped. Not sure I am explaining this right. What happens is that they larger bearing surface and larger dia of it scours the bore as the ball goes through it also building up pressure. That last is easily seen in the velocity readings. The other thing is something I know is right but people have to witness. I make my cleaning solution for all my guns smokeless or BP from an old formula with a few mods. It is Ed's Red equal parts of automatic transmission fluid and kerosene and mineral spirits and acetone... to that I add a few ounces per pint of pure lanolin and some amyl acetate ... the latter for odor (it is a solvent used in scented candle making) This makes the finest CLP I have ever tried and I have tried em all I think. it is a penetrant. It will loosen stuck bolts etc... the important part of that is that it penetrates the metal. I KNOW this to be true becuase I have nickel plated 3 of my BP revolvers and various other things like tools... The most important things to nickel plating are #1 polishing and two cleaning. any amount of oil will wreck the process.. any imperfection in the metal will show... After hours of buffing to a chrome like bare metal finish and then using commercial cleaning methods.. the guns just did not want to plate as well as expected. the reason is that some of the Ed's red had penetrated into the metal enough that even polishing and boiling in chemicals did not entirely remove it. If you stayed this long LOL... what I do to clean my bp guns is to run em under really hot water till the metal is so hot I can't hold it and use a toothbrush/mop to help clean... once I don't see any obvious bp left I use the ER to slather the gun in. None of my guns... smokeless or bp have a spot of rust. I keep a rag that has been treated with it over my safe. I wipe down the guns if I handle em. wiping em makes em look like a really good bluing job. I have even cleaned bp guns with no water and only the Ed's Red version I make.
@@doranmaxwell1755 No problem, I “Red” everything. Lots of interesting data-information. I only use hot water to clean also , and then light coat of oil. I was testing some BP that had a mixture of charred peas to see if the fouling would be softened or something so progressive shots would clean it out. Anyway, I needed to see how it compared to pure black, so first cylinder was with the pure black. Much to my surprise, one or two dry patches did it. I then thought (because it was Graff not GOEX, that the Graff was giving less or softer fouling. Wrong, because I did 6 more and it took several wet patches to get the barrel clean. Point being, that small amount of oil from cleaning maybe prevented initial fouling build up. Possibly why some folks that don’t fire several cylinders, get decent groups from that first cylinder. Lots of interesting paths to take in the Black Powder Woods, take care. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 You may not believe this but I clean with hot water and a shotgun swab on a cleaning rod. There is really never much fouling anyway. I normally shoot at least 3 cylinders before cleaning. Never use patches. I have 410 shotgun swabs and have three for each caliber. the first really dirty one I rinse till sorta clean then use the next cleanest one By then the bores/cyl look very clean. The last clean swab has a light coat of my Ed's Red and I run it through the bores/cyl What I think is happening is two things. One.... using the oversize balls (a couple thou or so more than bore) an reaming the cyls to as close to bore size as possible allows the bearing surface of the ball to fully engage the grooves which scours the groves... next... The Ed's Red penetrates the metal of the bore (whole gun actually) No gun I own has any rust at all on em... wiped once in a while with Ed's Red I can sell you this miracle product for a mere $500 a pint!!! LOL...just kidding make it yourself pennies an ounce. If you want to stay married tho get the Amy Acetate scent/solvent The acetone is pretty strong but this neutralizes it wih a few ounces per quart. Ok.... lastly (unless I think of something else) My theory as stated is that I get more pressure hence velocity by fully engaging the grooves in the rifling .... As stated I also believe that the fouling (to an extent) is scoured out each shot. I may have mentioned that I bought the Garmin Chron recently One of the first guns tested was my 1860 Colt clone Bore .453 Cyl .453 ball .457 The first shot with my paper cartridges (pyrodex 30 grain pellet with a home made wad followed by a .457 ball and rolled in a zig zag 1.5 paper) The first shot was... 769.3 then 791.4 then 856.9 then 825.8 Then 866.1Then 837.7 Then a nasty hangfire but still read 702.5 Then 830.2 Then 806.6 then another 6 all in the low 800's To me..... it seems that with no fouling the first two shots were a tad low in velocity with velocity going up after that and leveling off around 820?
@@doranmaxwell1755 I’m pondering between the garment and the LabRadar as there is about $250 difference. Portability isn’t an issue for me. Anyway, any thoughts ? I’m always low on the first shot. What is different would seem to be the barrel. Second cylinder always more, I get that reason (I think). I’ll be checking out the Red. Right now I’m off track with some more modern 38 stuff. Enjoying the retro trip back to the 70’s. Nothing black, or semi auto. I definitely won’t live long enough for them. With a good dot and ammo, pretty much a ragged hole at the 21 yard mark. I like that. Some days my eyes do ok also with the irons.
What did you use to ream the chambers? Probably not the.375 drill press that I butchered a couple of 2nd gen colt cylinders with. “ man’s got to start learning somewhere” , and that won’t happen in most school rooms. O.R.