DIY Dual Batteries for your Overland Vehicle - what, why & how
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- Опубліковано 3 сер 2024
- Everything you ever wanted to know about Dual isolated batteries for your overland vehicle!
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Everyone talking and talking and talking and not saying anything except this guy. Thanks :)
There simply isn't another UA-cam channel that comes close to this as a resource for the serious overlander.
Try ronny dahls channel
@@dpdog88 Ronny's is a great channel, but he's had no where near the experience this guy has of full time multinational overlanding over extended periods of time.
Thanks very much for the compliment, that means a lot!
All of our Toyota's have just had a simple solenoid charger with the 2 batteries. Bomb proof and basic.
Great and very informative video. Love your, "Shut up squirrel" comment
Nice set-up can you send me the diagram on how you did the setup of both batteries?
Great content, very informative
Very cool setup! Beauty in simplicity. You could use an oil pressure switch to trigger the solenoid, that way the batteries on connect when the engine is physically running
I've been going 2 years now with a single battery and a 50l ARB fridge. My style of overlanding is several weekends a year and a 2 week longer trip every year. I drive every day so that battery charges back up. Jump starter on standby.
I have ran this painless system for close to 2 decades with no issues...
That's really good to know!
Very informative I intend to look into one of those solenoids. I'm a Tradesman and I think I can implement this in my daily work routine.
Self jump is a great feature with an isolator. My adventure van runs Blue Sea gear as used on ships. I've used it once. But saved me the trouble to do a jump. And then prevents my gear from draining the starter-battery.
Mine uses a 3 position marine-switch. Disconnected, through the isolator, or bypassed that allows me to jump myself from inside my rig. But, I absolutely see the benefits of having a non-smart system. As I really don't overland.
A diagram for dummies. I love it!
Thanks for the continued informative videos.
You bet!
I recommend Hellroaring isolators. They are solid-state, but they have a very low voltage drop. They have a remote switch option that can allows you to select between connected-automatic-disconnected, and it also indicates the current status. If you leave it on, you'll get a light to show you that.
Sounds fantastic!
I really like the technical videos.
Yes! I've been waiting for this video. Please never stop making this quality content.
More to come!
I love the simplicity of your setup, and very well explained.
I use an enerdrive dc2dc charger , I chose this because you can adjust the amount of Maximum charging amps according to the house battery size. That way, if I upgrade my battery, I just adjust the charge, a bit like turning up or down a water tap.
Thanks for another great video.
That sounds like a nice feature!
That’s a really good point about how one may have difficulty finding the correct battery (of size) in a given country. This isn’t normally an issue in a single battery set up, but I know fitting duels into a Jeep is a tight fit, even more so on the new JL and JTs models. Something for myself and others to consider on our next builds.
Keep up the awesome videos.
Awesome job dude!!
Thank you! Cheers!
Wow! Loved this one! Definitely going to use the solenoid set up, my rig is going to have several overlapping systems, so if one system fails, it can be covered by another
One of my donor vehicles for the rig is a 1987 F-250 6.9 Diesel with two massive batteries from the factory.....for the rig, I’m planning on the 3 panel roof mounted solar panels and a bank of house batteries up front in the nose cone away from the mid/rear engine.
I’m definitely love the idea of linking the battery bank to the vehicle battery via solenoid.......a solar strip across the rear deck will act as a battery tender if the vehicle sits for long periods, and can be switched “on” to activate the folding roof panels when the sun comes up, and close them when it goes down automatically. A switch on the dash can connect the battery bank to the vehicle batteries for a jump start.
The vehicle is also going to be equipped with an inline generator with switch ignition. Everything will be wired up to compliment each other.....let’s say the alternator fails, and your losing power, switch on the generator and flip all vehicle electrical to the 12 volt supply, until you can get to a safe place for repair.
Another example would be if the water pump failed, which could happen in South Africa, a bypass pump can take over.
Like you said, you can not predict or plan for every emergency, but if you are building a rig from scratch, you can design in a lot of prevention
Easy does it! Good video
I got dual battery setup in my truck. I also use optima yellow top as house battery. Ctek dc to dc charger manages that.
Yep - as soon as you want to run anything electrical with the vehicle not running - you need a second battery of some kind. otherwise you will be stranded waiting for sun (or someone) to boost your charge state. (Lights and fridges are the most obvious, laptops and camera batteries can be charged while driving for many people.)
- For those times "a friend" has a flat battery - a portable booster is handy. Battery versions need charging before use (need to be kept "fully" charged), super-capacitor types - not so much. - the super-cap types can "self rescue" your own car with a flat battery.
My Camping/Touring Power setup is a Redarc BCDC1225D - connected with Anderson plugs to make it easy to put in and out of the vehicle, a portable solar panel complements alternator based charging - plug straight into the BCDC for "hybrid" offgrid power.
The 135Ah AGM battery lives on a smart maintenance charger when not in use - ready to go anytime.
(Pretty sure with just a jumper wire you should be able to "jump start" off the house battery - just simulate the "manual switch")
Sounds like a great setup you have!
Always enjoy your videos , we went with a dc to dc by CTEK on our FJ Cruiser and replaced the unit like you have on our 60 Series Cruiser with same . They are so far working great , the Optima batteries are also working fine. With newer alternators the voltage isn't high enough to fully charge the house battery.
Sounds great!
I had an old TJ and was notorious for draining my battery. For my JK, i went with the Genesis dual battery system and it is a great piece of mind when heading out for a week in the middle of no where. I have never had an issue and the jeep always starts up. I know guys that carry a second "starter" battery in case the main battery gets depleted, or they have one of those starter kits that plug into the wall; but something always happens where they forget to charge them or leave them at home and then they are stuck. Dual battery is the way to go, do it right the first time and you can get home.
I have the Genesis Dual Battery Kit with two yellow tops. Absolutely love it. I can run my ARB refrigerator for about 18-19 hrs without starting the Jeep. And the dual battery system shuts off my am1,000 watt power inverter if power goes to low. Plus refrigerator shut off as well. Plus I have a portable jump starter. Try to cover all my bases.
A modern and cheap solenoid option to isolate two batteries is the VSR - voltage sensitive relay. The difference for regular solenoid is that it has a microprocessor that promotes a controlled delay on turn the dual batteries system on, and off. It is good to avoid drain some charge from house one when starting engine, and promotes a more long period of equalization of charges between batteries, after engine goes off.
Thanks Dan. 😊👍 I haven’t set up my dual battery system yet. But I did get a GoalZero 1400 lithium battery, and I’m thinking of setting it up to charge from a DC to DC charger using the alternator and solar.
Sounds like exactly the setup I want to build in my next vehicle!
Another nice one again ;-) I do have a slightly different setup and added a manual switch to connect both batteries. The idea behind is my diesel engine consuming a lot of power when started in deep cold. Hence I want the starter battery be loaded with priority. In this rare case, the starter battery is charged first. Only then I connect it manually with the second one. Said connection is only possible when the ignition is on, so no danger of accidently discharging the main battery.
That sounds like a good setup for your situation!
I'm now thinking of an improvement. My option was always to charge my second battery connected to starter battery and the alternator was doing it well for me always... But it's because I only use house battery to charge my phone, iPad and for light in the van when I park.. since I don't have a fridge and more electronics to charge but I plan on getting camera and fridge too as I plan to stay for months on roads as opposed to my past trips that last 1 to 3 weeks at most...
I'm happy to learn from you Dan, well done sir
Happy to hear it was helpful! Let me know if you have any questions
Most vehicles built after 2008 have smart alternators, they do not deliver the voltage need for a deep cycle AGM . That combined with more consumers, is what killed it in 2 years only. With a more modern vehicle a smart DC to DC is the way to go. I had an AGM 100 Ah going really low after 1 night only, it was not charge properly until got a DC to DC. After I put in the DC to DC , after one night of camping I still have like 75 % left of it. This is not only good that you have spare capacity, but increases the life of the battery as well.
@@leeloo21231234 thank you for this highlight, it's coming in handy to me.
The more I make my van self sufficient the more I love living on the road and exploring more.
This is good insight from you
Ah yes clunck clunck very technical and descriptive.
I've been wondering about DC to DC chargers!
Mhh as a very simple system I like the isolators that use the voltage and connect if the alternator is functioning (V>13V or something like that but it only works with dumb alternator).
With yours the issue I see is that you will have ignition=on *before* to actually start the engine so if the secondary battery is empty (and the main not in a good shape) it could pull down the main and not help with the start.
And now I'm impatient to know about your new trip ! UA-cam has run out of expeditions to follow lately...
You are spot on, that is a weak point of my system. Though I'm always careful not to let the house battery go below about 11V.
For what it's worth, the two batteries are actually isolated when I turn the key to start the engine, so *only* the starter battery is actually connected to the starter.
Very cool. I have a CTek250sa used in a similar configuration as yours, but it has the smart charging profiles for AGM, isolates, has the MPPT input, and will even top off the starting battery. I did it this way so I could get high enough voltage on the house Optima battery for charging, but keep the stock starter battery (cheap non AGM battery). I toyed with the basic selenoid setup like you have, which to your point is dead simple. I just didn't want to have to match my starting battery (extra $$) and wanted the smart charging. I'll look into the renogy charge controller that sound like it may have a similar capability. Thanks again for the informative posts!
It sounds like you have the more modern version of my setup, and it's exactly what I'll be looking at for my future vehicle! Cheers,
@@TheRoadChoseMe I checked out the Renogy options from your link. On paper it looks like has the same capability as mine, but more flexibility for also controlling lithium ion. My Ctek250sa can only do lead acid. They look to be similarly priced with the exception of a temp probe which is extra for the Renogy. That Renogy controller may be a better option with the lithium capability though.
I really think I'll go with that next time, and even move to lithium to give it a shot. It's WAY lighter and smaller for the same capacity, which is win-win.
I built the poor man's dual battery system. I didn't want to deal with the special ($$) dual battery mount in the engine compartment so ran an 8g wire directly from the starter battery (biggest Optima Yellowtop) through a 40amp slow blow breaker mounted on the firewall to charge the house battery (Fullriver 100amp deep cycle Grp31 AGM) mounted in the back of the Jeep in a trolling motor battery case. The house battery negative cable is connected to a handy tub bolt 1 foot from the battery. The 8g wire provides enough voltage drop under high charging loads to keep the charge rate below 40amps when the (115amp heavy duty) alternator is running, but is negligible as the battery tops off. A 6-8hr drive (common when relocating) fully charges both batteries.
If I'm not going to run the engine for more than a few hours (lunch in town etc.) I disconnect the house battery from the starter battery manually at the house battery and if it's going to be a day or more hook up a military foldable (5 pounds and folds up to book size, $850) 100watt solar panel which can recharge the house battery in two days or so, even when running the 'fridge. The downside to my setup is you have to remember to manually disconnect the house battery or after a day or three or you'll not be able to start your rig as both batteries are dead if you're running high loads like a 'fridge.
The upside is if I pay attention I'll have plenty of battery to start the car and essentially recharge my situation to start the car if one battery goes haywire. If the starter battery dies it will be a hassle as I'll have to jump (or switch out) to the house battery to start because that 8amp wiring will burn up quickly if the breaker fails during a high load start attempt. Three times now I've had remote campers kill their stock car battery by playing their high power stereos/lights overnight, beg for a jump, and I drag my AGM house battery to their car with a set of jumper cables & really stress it as their twin turbocharged engines finally fire up.
One final thought, quality spiral wound AGM or compressed Glass mat batteries are the best. I'm on year nine on my Optima battery and it's been through some tough times including running totally dead twice because of a short in the fog light switch. I've a spare in storage and it's still at 13.4v after two years. The idea that lithium ion phosphate is the future at five times the price for a weight reduction makes no sense concerning the risks.
I love these no nonsense videos! Are you still running the stock alternator?
I had to replace it recently - it finally died.
@@TheRoadChoseMe
Not a bad run if it was the original!
It was, as-is essentially everything on the engine and the whole driveline.
(Including the rad hoses, serpentine belt, etc. !)
@@TheRoadChoseMe
That is a testament to the Jeep! And as you have said (vehicle preservation). I have a 2018 JKU , and plan on keeping it forever!
Motor on!!
I heard you mention Mongolia there. Are you planning to do a Central Asia trip once things have calmed down with the virus? Other than the Canadian arctic, that's probably my biggest bucket list overlanding destination to do at some point in my life. It's just so interesting, beautiful, and a little bit mysterious since we really don't learn much about it in Western education. I'd love to see you do a whole series and a book for a trip like that and would back it from day 1.
Absolutely Central Asia is on my list of future destinations, I just have no idea when it's going to be possible!
Also, AGM is the preferred type.
Mongolia - you can select battery type with charger? I'd go with your current setup and Pb acid. RR and Jag put batts in the trunk, but I don't think you want gases in your cooking.
Amps per hour capacity, now I know to. Looking forward to the trip you talking about?
Trip coming soon!
Awesome vid, gives me the confidence to tackle the project myself. What gauge wire did you use? Between the batteries?
The biggest I could get! I think it was either 0 or 1
@@TheRoadChoseMe thanks for the info!
DC to DC converters are definitely the way to go. The Renogy unit you linked to is FCC Part 15 Class B certified, which is great for radio operators (most MPPT controllers emit a lot of RFI).
HOWEVER, I would never consider the unit you recommend because it is not IP67 or greater. Sure you could mount the device in your passenger compartment, but this is a bad idea.
Why is it a bad idea to have it in the passenger compartment? I always plan on mounting mine there (sensitive electronics and all)
Hi nice video I think solar generators system is much simpler and cheaper
I have both, and I think they're both very helpful - ua-cam.com/video/L4_QWFYtTNs/v-deo.html
Use the switch to connect the batteries but put in a momentary switch so you can't leave it on.
The new system I am setting up for my Jeep does not rely much on the battery at all to start the vehicle. Instead it uses a bank of super capacitors to create to high amp jolt needed to start the vehicle. The super capacitors can charge up from even a nearly dead main battery, or no battery at all if you have some solar panels in the mix. Once they reach charge, you get about 3-4 attempts to start the vehicle. On a larger motor (my motor is the 2.5l) You may get less attempts at starting. From my 10 watt solar panel it takes about 12-18 minutes to charge the capacitor bank fully. Depends on the sun angle/intensity. These capacitor banks are readily available, and weigh significantly less than a second battery. I think mine weighs maybe a pound. There really is no reason to lug the added weight of a second battery anymore if starting reliability is what you want, a capacitor bank will deliver.
Wow, I've never heard of that. Do you have a link where I can read more?
Does that mean the alternator isn't even connected to the capacitors?
@@TheRoadChoseMe I am a little surprised you have not heard of the tech. There was an article in National Geographic circa 2013 about it. I have a link to one of the first research papers I read on it, but the tech may be greatly simplified today with prepackaged systems. Some people have omitted their batteries altogether just allowing the alternator to charge the capacitors, might work well enough on a daily driver perhaps. As far as system design and connections I am not qualified to offer any specifics, there are a lot of variables on a system like this.
www.ijser.org/paper/Introduction-to-Supercapacitors-and-Supercapacitor-Assisted-Engine-Starting-System.html
Funny, I was just thinking I wish he would tell us a little more about his dual battery set up...and then there is this. Lol. Thanks.
Just for you!
Your description of amp-hours is a bit misleading. Yes, they're a measure of capacity, but they're not rated at a 1 hour rate, but at a 20 hour rate. Lead acid batteries like you have, (which contain liquid absorbed in fiberglass mat) suffer a loss in capacity at higher discharge rates, described by Peukert's law. Your batteries are rated to deliver 2.75A for 20 hours, but at a 1hr rate your capacity drops to about 30 amp-hours. Lithium batteries are much better at delivering their rated capacity at higher currents, which is one big reason people are switching.
Also worth mentioning that they will not actually deliver 55ah before they drop below a usable voltage for a fridge and items like that.
You are absolutely spot on, I was trying to keep the explanation simple enough for laymen to understand. I figure nobody in the real world is ever going to put a 30 Amp load on a battery like this. In reality most people would never put more load than just their fridge.
@@TheRoadChoseMe if you watch enough UA-cam you'll see a new trend of induction hobs for cooking on. I did some simple math and the amount of power you'd need, and a minimum 2000W inverter, it's just insanity...
A little gas or petrol cooker is fine for me + my jetboil.
I have been tempted by the travel buddy 12v stove though....
Grate video as allways 👍🏻
At the moment im working om an old Nissan king cab/navara from 1994. Is a Disel and as such it comes whit a dual battery system as stock. I do have a spare truck and my most reasent plan is to salwage the battery system from that one and figure out a way to get the best usage out of what i simply already have access to🤔
In teory that will end up giving me a 4 battery system with 200+ amp/h that I then can use for what ever my needs migth be. In theory that is.... And that system would alow me to run one almoust any kind of battery. size lithium deep cycle and so one. in theory that is 😬
Do you really NEED that much battery capacity?
Overlanding is a fine balance of weight and storage space and what you need.
If you on't need it, you'll soon learn that having all that capacity (be it battery or solar or gas or whatever) will limit you in some other way.
@@TheRoadChoseMe no i dont need that much but since i already have it to my disposal I figured that why not give it a try 😉
More cost effective for me than to set up a effektiv solar alternative. And money is the only thing im short of 😉
As a photograper my needs for amps is almost endless.... But well see where ill end up.
Tanks for taking the time to respond.
Reguards BigC
Thoughts on Lead Acids? They work out a lot cheaper even though you have to buy one double your size needs (max. 50% discharge)
I think they're not designed to be used for "house" purposes, and it's extremely bad for them to be used that way. Also big and heavy, the enemy of overlanding
If you did the DC to DC would you still need the Solenoid in the system? Or use the DC to DC and two batteries only? Or would you splice the DC to DC into the Solenoid system, on the positive leads?
I love the simplistic of your setup. My house battery is for charging laptop, cameras, and cargo lighting, which I was going to get a inverter to help with the load of charging laptops inside my Jeep. I just know a DC to DC are NOT waterproof, so I would have to bring all that wiring into the Jeep and find a dry place to mount that as well. Thoughts?
I think a quality DC to DC includes the "isolating" aspect of the solenoid, so it's not needed.
The Renogy charger I mention does it all.
You certainly want it all inside, as you say.
You should never discharge any gel, AGM or lead acid battery more than 50% (even the deep cycle types) because you will damage it so a 55AH battery is only around 25 - 30 AH usable. With the various Li batteries you can use nearer to 100% without damaging them.
Interesting that you don't use a red top as the starter battery, which would be Optima's recommendation.
I find that 55AH is way too small so I use a 110AH AGM battery, giving 55AH usable. I am not yet convinced by Li bateries. They have a built in battery management system which is full of electronics which I prefer to avoid.
Traction batteries can be safely discharged up to 80%
@@XTnautas I need to look ino this. I have had a lot of trouble getting a truly reliable set up and am intrested in anything which could offer an improvement.
@@defendermodsandtravels It's been said not to go below 50% And reality for longevity it really should not be brought down to 50% repeatedly.
@@jeepncj7 I almost never get down to 12V. I need to check the state-of-charge curve but I think this is still above 50%. I have a low voltage cut out at the battery to prevent deep disharge because I ruined too many batteries through careless accidents. It actually takes a lot of care to keep an auxiliary battery in good health and they are easily ruined.
My charging set up is more sophisticated than Dan's (and he fully acknowledges that his is bullet-proof simple) but I am dissatisfied with the performance so it needs an upgrade. I think he has motivated me to post a video on this subject. We need efficient charging + bullet proof reliability.
Charging has been the biggest thorn in my side for many years!
@@defendermodsandtravels - I don't have a LVD on mine, just on the fridge to stop if it gets too low. I have a used Optima for my house battery so I'm not as concerned with the abuse (as it was $100). What are you using in your setup for charging/isolation?
Do you have any details on the hood vents we see in the video? I cut mine open myself but yours appear to be aftermarket. Any concerns with that extra bit of water intrusion into your engine bay?
They are made by Daystar and have been great. Water intrusion hasn't been a problem for many years now and torrential rain in Africa. www.daystarweb.com/products/category/hood-vent
Would you recommend something like this over dual batteries that are isolated from each other? For example keeping the jeeps battery stock and then having a battery pack solely connected to the solar panel and relying on that for replenishing it’s power?
Depending on the battery capacity and the load you're putting on it, solar alone might not be enough to keep it full. It will depend on your specific scenario.
Many videos out there of lithium ion batteries catching fire. I would look into LifePo4 , safer, super long life, literally thousands of cycles. Expensive yes, but doing the math I think they are worth it.
Check out Will Prowse videos on solar, batteries and all that. The kid knows more than anyone I have seen and does a ton of testing.
I fully agree. Will Prowse is the Genius !
I'm hoping "new" batteries become more and more understood before it comes time for me to select what I want for a new vehicle!
@@TheRoadChoseMe pull up that Will guys vids, alot of info there.
One of the lifepo4 = almost 2 of standard or AGM as you can discharge down further without damaging or shortening the cycle counts too much.
Also if I remember right , all lithium, the ion and iron phosphate, (LifePo4) have temperature limitations so you have to look it up and see . The Battleborne someone else mention has a good rep. And just watched a video of that guy tearing one apart , interesting.
If you have enough of following , you might reach out to them , they may just give you one for free or discounted for the advertising..
@@TheRoadChoseMe Dan you said you really didn't use that much capacity in your batteries in Africa with the solar etc. so other than weight savings, why would you go to a newer, more complex system where it may be harder to source batteries if needed? Are you planning on expanding your electricity needs? Just curious what your plans are for newer build in terms of lights and electrical accessories.
Are you going to the Overland North rally in Ontario in September?
Ohh, I didn't know there was one, I thought all the events this year were cancelled!
I'd love to get there, but I've got other plans unfortunately. Maybe next time!
Great video. I also watched your solar panel video, but did not get how do you connect your solar panels/controller to your house battery. If you connect directly between house battery and your panels/controller, does that mean house battery is being charged by both your alternator and your solar panels at the same time when you are driving?
Yes, in theory (that's how it's wired)
BUT - the charge controller "monitors" the battery, and when the alternator is spinning it puts out ~14.2V, so then the charge controller thinks it doesn't need to charge the battery, and it does nothing. The instant the engine turns off the battery voltage will be "real", and the charge controller will kick in and start charging if needed.
I have an old controller, that's how it works.
The new Renogy controllers are MUCH smarter, and they'll balance the charge, using all the solar available, and then topping up with alternator if needed. I will use one of those in a future build for sure, it sounds much better.
@@TheRoadChoseMe thank you. That makes sense now. 😀👍
You're very welcome. Let me know if you have any more questions or another topic you'd like me to cover!
i didnt have much luck with these D34 yellow tops either bought one 3 years ago and after a year and a half or so one of the top posts became physically loose and eventually stopped making a good connection internally, got a new one from warranty, but that was only a year ago and that battery already is getting pretty useless, it wouldnt start the jeep if it sat more than a couple days and theres no parasitic draws its just weak and would barely start it under ideal conditions, i used it alot for winching im assuming thats why, im moving the yellow top to the rear to provide a little capacity for an inverter until its completely dead, i bought a motomaster brand AGM from Canadian tire, it was considerably cheaper, has alot more AHs and Cranking Amps and carries a 5year warrranty
I too found the found the blue and yellow tops too fragile as auxiliary batteries however the best starter battery I ever bought (lasted over 10 years) was an Optima red top. My current red top was discharged to 0V by an idiot mechanic soon after I bought it and to my amazement is still working 6 years later. So for me use Optima red top starter batteries and other brands for the auxiliary battery.
@@defendermodsandtravels the yellow top was starter battery and winch battery, wasnt running a secondary battery or any prolonged draws like aux lights or inverters, red tops are suppose to be better suited for starting and winching might of had better luck with one of those
Hi Dan. Do you have any estimate of how much more quickly the DC/DC charger would charge the house battery vs just using the alternator directly (like you currently do)? You said it would take "many many" hours of highway driving to charge the battery directly from the alternator. Would the DC/DC charger cut it to half the time? A quarter of the time? Tks!
I don't have hard numbers on that, but the DC/DC charger is the best (and correct way) to do it.
I imagine the details depend on the type of battery, the capacity of the battery, how discharged it was and how many amps the DC/DC charger is rated for. Remember you don't always want to charge it at max speed because that can be bad for the battery. The DC/DC charger has a lot in inbuilt smarts to do it the best way possible.
I've got a very similar setup in my 2001 4runner using the Stinger isolater and two AGM batteries. It works well, but a DC/DC charger should charge the house battery quicker and more full.
NOt sure about your double battery setup, if the auxiliary is discharge but they get together while starting then the starter battery will have to start the engine PLUS share the charge with the other battery, or is it totally manual??
I have been using a blue sea M-ACR for a couple of years.
When starting they are disconnected, then when the engine is running the alternator will take up that laod. Also my system doesn't ever let the house battery get below about 11.5V.
Could you provide a simple sketch that shows the Renogy Charge controller working with your existing system that enables the Alternator to best charge the house battery (the one most likely to be low) without overcharging the Starting battery and enabling your Solar Panel to charge the house as well? Thank you.
When the engine is running, the alternator charges the two batteries, and the solar charge controller is connected to them. The charge controller sees the high voltage the alternator is putting out, so it does nothing. So to be clear: When the engine is running my solar does nothing.
That's how my system works now with an old and simple charge controller, but as I said the newer charge controllers will use as much solar as possible, and then augment that with the alternator if needed. So I will upgrade to that kind of setup for my future vehicle.
@@TheRoadChoseMe Thank you from Fallbrook, CA. Your explanations are always efficient and helpful. I really appreciate it.
I have a pair of 50A relion lithium batteries in parallel so 100Ah capacity. Charging is via a redarc BCDC1225D. The BCDC is a DC-DC charger with dual inputs (alternator & solar) it draws as much solar as possible, then if the engine is running, augments that with power from the alternator, delivering a total of 25A to the house batteries. It's a foolproof system in that the starter battery is always isolated and the charger only draws load from the alternator when the engine is running.
The difference between lithium batteries and lead acid or AGM is that they can be discharged down to 10% safely, whereas lead acid/AGM can really only safely use 50% so a 50Ah lithium is equivalent to a 100Ah AGM battery for usable capacity, but of course much smaller and lighter.
Lithium batteries can't be kept in the engine bay, and they are not suitable for starting, so keep the AGM/lead acid starter battery in place!
That sounds like a fantastic system, and something I'll be looking at in my next vehicle!
This is the system I’m putting into my Gladiator build.
@Eddit & Terri Fort - will you remove the current "two battery" setup in the Gladiator, or just leave it alone and add a completely separate house battery?
The other design decision that I made was to not include an inverter. Laptops now mostly charge via USB-C PD(cigarette lighter plug adapter for that) and most other stuff that needs charging is via USB. I dont typically carry power tools, but you can get 12v chargers for those as well.
The Road Chose Me Dan at this point I’m leaning towards leaving the factory batteries alone and adding a BattleBorn 100 AH battery in the bed of the truck. I will run everything (including solar) through a Redarc BCDC charge controller. Hope this helps.
Your system above made perfect sense in the 90s.
In this era, the question is:
Your house battery is almost flat. You start the engine.
Can the alternator sense that the house battery is very low?
Based on my understanding, the alternator “senses” the starter battery. And the starter battery is not in a hugely discharged state.
Hence, how long does the alternator take to recharge the almost flat house battery?
The Optima is an AGM-type Deep Cycle battery. Can automotive alternators effectively and optimally recharge such batteries?
I agree it's an outdated design, that's why I've improved it in every possible way for my new vehicle build! details here: ua-cam.com/video/i-gK0BBxlrI/v-deo.html
@@TheRoadChoseMe
Thank you, sir👍
great info but PLEASE BE AWARE BIG AH 12V BATTERIES HAVE A MASSIVE AMOUNT OF DANGEROUS POWER
i thought a 50A anderson plug would handle the 40A DC/DC charger
But no it melted and luckily it didn't burn the car to much.
Plenty of cars been burnt to the ground by dodgy 12v systems.
Do we need to upgrade the stock alternator? Will it get damaged due to extra load to charge both batteries.
There is a lot of debate about this, some people say yes, some people say no. There is no doubt it puts extra load on the alternator, so it probably would shorten it's service life. My stock alternator is 170,000 miles old, and has been wired up this way for almost 5 years now without a problem.
Most modern 4x4 will probably already have a relatively big alternator because under the hood there are a lot of electric accessories from the factory. An electric fan draw a lot of amps...
But on older 4x4 you may have 40 or 60 amp alternator and that may be quite low if you run a lot of things.
Also note that if you upgrade the alternator (particularly *2 or *3) you also need to increase the wire harness gauge if you don't want to end with a bbq in your engine bay.
The nice thing about this style of system is that even with a dead house battery, the alternator only "sees" one battery that is half discharged. Generally your main battery will be close to 100% charge, house battery is at 50%. The alternator will sense a 75% charge, and will charge at a slower rate than if you had one battery at 50%. I run the same system as Dan's, and have yet to replace an alternator.
Is your alternator still stock? I’m debating the dual battery set-up or just going with a single bigger deep cycle/lithium ion battery with an upgraded alternator. Not much running other than a fridge and a 2.1 amp USB and maybe a fan overnight (with an emergency jump starter just in case). However when I’m driving is when I was planning on charging everything else (iPad, power tool batteries, fridge, ac/heater, phone, stereo, air compressor ). So I’m hoping I’ll be able to keep my power consumption low enough for just a bigger single battery overnight, but I’m worried about overloading the system when I’m driving. Thoughts/recommendations?
If you uprate your alternator you will of course need to increase the size of the associated cabling too.
What capacity is yours? Mine is only 60A but it actually copes all right. It can draw 50A when I start off but within half an hour it has dropped by half. It would be prudent not to add extra loads until the initial charge is done.
BTW I''d highly recommend fitting an ammeter so you know what's going on.
I have the stock alternator. It has 170k miles on it now, and it's been charging both batteries for almost 5 years now. Never a problem.
@@TheRoadChoseMe After that mileage you should get it refurbished before your next big trip and it'll be fine.
How does this work with a winch that can pull upwards to 630amps peak? Which battery would you put the winch on?
As long as the engine is running, it makes no difference - they're both connected to the alternator which is really powering the winch.
In reality though, I have it connected to the starter battery, directly touching the big wire coming from the alternator.
I made a LiFePo4 battery out of cells from alibaba for a 280 ah batter that weighs about 40lbs and i made a wooden box for it kto live in on the passanger side of my xj and have a iverter and the dc to dc charger screwed to the box as well and i have wires ran to the batter from my alternator with the dc to dc charger and i have a solar charge controller for the 100 watt renogy panel on my roof and being a pc gamer im able to run my full desktop gaming setup normally for about 14 hours straight and that includes playing games at insane quality like cyberpunk 2077. But to save power im going to get a gaming laptop that uses about 100 watts compared to 400 wats from my desktop pc while its running. I have a switch on my dash so i can turn on and off the charging of the battery from the dc to dc charger while im driving and honestly sometimes i do forget to leave the switch on and it drains my car battery but i can just run jumper cables from my house battery to the car batter and start my car so im never really stuck well if there is no sun and im out of charge then i cant lol
The 4 dislikes are Bronco owners. lol
You mentioned that you believe heat contributed to the demise of a battery while on your road trip. Have you considered that relocating the battery outside of the engine compartment would help reduce heat levels that the battery is submitted to? I've heard others mention it as an issue but don't know if that is a real concern or not.
I agree, which is why many MPPT have a temp sensor. And it is also why I stowed my second battery inside my Jeep. But I also agree with Dan that doing so takes away precious cargo space.
I don't think heat was the demise, I think it was just the number of cycles - I simply used it up because the fridge was running A LOT when it was 100F every single day for 3 years.
Also I charged my laptop and cameras a lot too.
Mechanical switches have a higher rate of failure than solid-state circuitry
I’m shocked you’re not using a BCDC such as the 1225D, you can set it up to properly charge whatever battery chemistry you’re running, and also has a solar input that’s MPPT, and not PWM which you have.
Remember, I designed and built my system in 2015, and I needed it to be literally bomb proof. No fancy electronics, no modules that do wizardry. Simple and it works was the main criteria.
I have a 24v vehicle that already has two batteries in series. Now what?
Im hot an expert but i dont think alternators actually charge a battery, it just help maintain the voltage from dropping?
They charge the battery, otherwise your battery would eventually go dead from all the starting...
@@TheRoadChoseMe as you said at the end just a bit not enough for a big charge. Thanks for the answer and the good video! Im still in a 8-5 working schedule, i hope someday i will find a way to leave on a long trip. For now payment on the jeep getting at the end, les milage completly stock. You are a good inspiration and motivation. Peace!
Which house battery are you running?
Optima Yellow Top D34 in the current Africa Jeep, but I'm going a whole new direction (into the 21st Century) with my upcoming vehicle build!
@@TheRoadChoseMe so both of your batteries at optimas ?
yes, they're both identical, which is a requirement for the type of "dual" system I have where the solenoid joins them in parallel. You don't want to do that with different batteries, because they will charge/discharge unevenly, which will be bad for one of them.
@@TheRoadChoseMe ahhhh I see. Right on thanks man!
When I put in my dual batteries, I was told by those "in the know" that running your batteries the way you have is essentially the same as putting in a new battery with an old battery - not a good idea - as it will put a lot harder load on the alternator and batteries. So I ran mine just in parallel and only use them for starting and running the regular devices (lights, radio, system, etc.) on those two batteries. For additional power for non-base systems I added two 200 ah deep cycles attached to an alternate charging system that runs either from land power or from a small generator. This way it can't discharge the main batteries, and the 5000 watt pure sine converter runs everything else nicely. ua-cam.com/video/wC6Dv6tBao0/v-deo.html
This is a very very bad way of charging two batteries, you've put your alternator in a situation where your starter battery might be floating around 12.4v in normal use and your house battery might be sitting at around 10-11v.. I would strongly recommend that no one duplicates this setup. This is tant amount to using a hammer to drive a screw into a piece of wood.
Overlanders have done it this way since the beginning of overlanding, and it's been working perfectly for me and many others for many years.
@@TheRoadChoseMe This is the quickest route to shorten the life of your batteries and on some vehicles damage your alternator and ECU, this is the most lazy way of fitting a battery to any vehicle, whether it is a camper, caravan, motorhome or overlander and highlights a complete lack of understanding of how battery chemistry works. But if it works for you keep on trucking 👍🏽🙏🏽