Thanks man I knew nothing about the point system but your tutorial was so concise and you broke down the theory so perfectly that it left me no choice but to comprehend it. Excellent!!
Great tutorial! I am a professional technician, I see quite a few of the Onans but dont see the Kohler K series much. Your videos have been a great help in showing the best way to service the ignition systems on these engines. Thanks and keep up the great work!
Sr. I just wanted to thank you for a great video. I did exactly what you suggested on your video and in matter of minutes after adjusting the points, my Kohler engine came alive. Thank you Sr.
Just the info I needed. Have a Kohler K532 in a John Deere 400 (circa 1980) and hope those points are easy to find and not tucked away in some odd hiding place. ;-) Recently watched your video on complete restoration of a 400. Great! Thanks
Many thanks for the wealth of knowledge you've left us online. I frequently reference your videos. Now to get the old k241 running again on my gravely 5465! I hope you and the family are doing well, miss seeing your videos, I hope to see you back on youtube someday. Take care.
I just bought my first garden tractor last week due to you tutorial on your Cub Cadet 149. money is kind of tight so I looked and looked for one that I could afford well I finally found 2 wheel horse gt14 it came with 2 mower decks and 2 rototiller and 2 3 point hitch they are both hydrostatic for a great price off 300 I think that will be the buy of the year for me since my budget only allowed for 600 so I still have 300 to fix the tractor. am super excited about my build I have to say thank you sir I will be ordering some parts soon. have a good one
iwantosavemoney I am glad to hear it! it will be a very rewarding project for you. if you need any help let me know! thank you for saving the tractors! you got a great price on those GT's
Not really.. That comment is certainly warranted. You've got clowns out there, like Taryl Fixes All, etc. who bullshit around, chit-chatting a bunch of nonsense, trying to be funny, then I end up getting annoyed, closing the video, and not learning anything. Norm cuts straight to the chase, no clowning around, no bullshit, no filler and you're actually able to learn something. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You have a great channel here. I just bought my first garden tractor, a 1979 Ford LGT 165. Videos like this are super helpful. Before this video I didn't even know what these "points" were, where to find them or much less how to adjust them and why all of that would matter. I consider myself reasonably (if not) dangerously educated on the subject now and you'll have my business when it's time to enter the next stage of my restoration process.
Hey Norman How are you. I wasn’t a fan of the old Kohler engines but now enjoy getting the ones I get to work on running like a top. Excellent video tutorial. isavetractors has excellent service and information.
very nice a great video made by a person with knowledge of engine and CAMERA!!! excellent a video that is watchable. to everyone else with crappy videos buy a tripod and don't shoot during a wind storm lol
points are missunderstood they form the ground path of the coil. so when they are closed the coil charges up. when they open the coil is sitting there charged up and that electricity is looking for a place to go. when the points are closed the coil is the place to be. but when opened the. next best place is to run out the other winding down the spark plug lead and jump from the plug wire through the air to the body of the spark plug into the head and therefore back to ground. thats why spark plug gap and plug type and coil resistance and wire resistance are a thing. we need the points to break enough to drop the field in the coil enough that the electricity is motivated to do the work of jumping that spark plug.
I have a late 60s K301. I was told it ran some months ago and just stopped running. I took the flywheel off and saw it had broken on the shaft, the key broken. Thought that was the spark problem for sure but still, "0" spark even after putting a new coil on the magneto. I'm going to adjust the points tomorrow, but it ran so recently. So what if the gap is too wide, is there no spark or sometimes a spark and so it will run bad? The gap is wide, I tell by just looking at it open, but they do close.
Very good how to vedio, no bullshit,,,good camera positioning and well spoken,,,Thanks,,I just learned A lot about the compressor engine that runs a 4 cylinder speedaire I'm restoring,,,
I have followed your videos and replicated the work to the best of my abilities. My 917 Allis will run, but after a few mowings it looses power when the pto is engaged. The most significant issue I’ve ran across is that one side runs very hot and the other much cooler. Any ideas?
Hey I have a question my friend has a 1968 John deere 140 h3 same engine as that one and we converted to regular coil not inside a flywheel and we did a wiring properly and we are having no spark we can't figure that out i will appreciate if u reply thanks
Nice upload brother I'm working on a 1970 JD110 with the 7HP Kohler, its been running terrible so I removed the carb and soaked it cleaned it with tip cleaner and blew it out it was running yesterday and today no spark. Its pouring out now so I got to wait to do this.
+JRoberts1260 Thank you. Often times with these old carburetors the throttle shafts get worn and let in air throwing yoru air fuel mixture off. If cleaning your carburetor doesn't help you may want to replace it. We sell the correct carburetor for your engine. Regarding the no spark. The most common reason I have found for no spark in my customers is improper gap setting or worn points. We sell those too if you need them. Good luck and thank you for saving the tractors! I love those round fender JD 110's! Classic!
Yea I can see that on the primary throttle butterfly, Cant justify the cost of a new carb at the moment. or purchasing the points but I did check them as per your video and they are in spec now, actually have two old tractors a JD110, and a cub cadet from the mid 60s its carb is soaking but also no spasrk on that girl either....As time and finances allow ill get em both up and running.
Great video. I am replacing coil, plugs, carb, condenser and points on a K582. Your video is about to save me time and unnecessary damage due to frustration. The only suggestion I would make is the lighting could have been a little brighter. I could see what you were teaching well enough, but I like to compare everything on my points to yours. Like the wire from the coil , I believe I had that incorrect. Thank you for posting.
I am also trying to get a Kohler K582 /K7000 Generator to start with no luck so far. I replaced the coil, plugs, fuel pump and Fuel filter. Cranks, no spark. lookedat/cleaned points, has very little movement at points, I adjusted but still no spark. If the condensor is bad would that prevent it from starting?
What are you setting the gap at? Have you tried a test lite at the coil? Is there any power anywhere? I had to replace the wire from the coil to the points as it had become crunchy from decades of heat. The clip that screws to the points had to be replaced. Finally, does your battery have a fresh charge?
I don't have the gap tool, wire looks ancient. that's a good suggestion to replace. no spark at points/plug .has power at starter,cranks has fuel. i don't know how to disable oil sens/ fuel sens if those are disabling start.
Looking for some advice for my good old IH CC 1650. Engine is the factory installed K341. It has very good compression,,can't remember the psi off the top of my head...Does not knock or burn any oil and starts quickly even in cold winter weather. I have slowly rebuilt this old tractor for the last two years..Made my own repair on the trunion also and all is good...My issue is the engine is falling flat under load...I only get good power when I hold the hydro lever back to slow it down. I have checked and re set the points..Thought for sure I had it there as the gap was down to .005" Set it at .020 while at the widest point. put in a new plug and it did help some as it started instantly in the cold weather and no backfire when shutting it off...It may have some cam wear is what i am thinking and is causing this issue..I also reset the governor rod by loosening the bolt and turning the shaft as far to the left as it would go..I scribed the shaft at that position the proceeded to pull back on the governor rod to the carb and tightened it....Still dogging out when I push the lever all the way forward...I have cleaned and tuned the carb as well and it acts like the governor is having a tough time keeping up with the changes on engine load. The sensitivity actually is to little not to much as the spring and adjustment holes are all slightly worn from years of use...I believe I am down to replacing the whole governor system as well as being time for a new carb as well...Everything else looks good, coil and the rest of the ignition system is right on,,,unless the gap is false from a worn cam...Any other ideas....? thanks
Hi great information! Question I have 1987-90 bobcat with 14hp Kohler trying to find parts (plug &wire etc) what series would this be like K or M and engine K141 etc or K482 etc. thanks John
the procedure you are showing is the static procedure there is another way. dynamic procedure. you can time a kohler with a timing light. on the side of the blower housing there is a plug. spin the flywheel by hand, there is a timing mark. mark that timing machine with a white paint marker so you can see it. start the engine, the light should strobe the same time the mark comes into view of the hole. both methods actually work, but i think the dynamic is a little more accurate.
I have a john deere 317 with a kohler kt17 series 1 my plunger for points doesnt come out when I spin the crankshaft put new points on it and noticed the plunger doesnt come out too set it any idea of whats wrong or how too fix this problem would be greatly appreciated thanks
I just got my coil and points from you and hooked everything up and now I don't have any spark, I rechecked the points gap, and the gap in the plug and everything checks out. Any ideas?
Have you ever changed the left side crankshaft / block seal , seen at time 3:50 without removing the crankshaft? I have a leak in that seal and was wondering just how difficult it would be or if it can be done before I try without removing the crank..
I was told I probably have a flat spot on the cam and either need too replace it or weld a little where the plunger hits cam so it will push it in and out again.
Norman. Have you ever had a bad set of NEW Kohler OEM points. I had that issue this morning. Thankfully, I had another new set on the shelf. It drove me nuts for 45 minutes trying to set them with a multi meter before I figured out they didn't have continuity. Anyhow, I love your videos. Keep them coming.
Hi There, contact points are often stored with a protective coating on them to prevent them from rusting. Try spraying carb cleaner on it and rub them with regular computer paper, that should fix it for you.
Yeah, I'll give that a try. But, the good set is in and timed. So, they will go back on the shelf if they prove good. Question for you. I notice that you have used parts on your site. Do you run across used K341 heads? When I got this motor, the plug was stripped out, so I TIG welded it and re tapped and it's held for 8 years. But, I would like to have a good one as a spare just in case this one lets loose again. Also, I need the correct governor linkage spring. I can't find one on line anywhere. Thanks for your quick response. Mark
We have the governor linkage spring. check this out :isavetractors.com/springs/ We also do sell the K341 heads but we are sold out right now. When we get them, they sell really quickly. Buy points from us in the future. They will always be good! Let me know if you need anything else in the future.
Hi, I have a ckm21 kohler. It started running terrible especially when I put a load on it. I changed points, condenser and gapped 20 thousand. Still ran lousy. Pulled carb and sonic cleaned it and still bogs under a load. The motor only has about 150 hrs on it. What do I check next???
I'm putting new points on my Cub 108, as it won't spark. It's the last thing I suspect to be the issue with it, so if it doesn't work, I will have to do some real investigation! Fingers crossed here. Lol
I'll be using something else to set mine because I'm lacking some tools so something with the same thickness of that tool will do And valve cleaner spray because its been sitting for so many years a little wetness will loosen it up I'm sure it need all new parts on mine
As I was trying to take the cover off the points the wire fed thru the cover popped loose... I crimped back on a new U connector but I can't tell where it went... In looking at video it appears to be under lower screw, facing slightly downward. Please confirm, thanks for the help!
Thanks for these videos. I’ve been watching you for years and really appreciate your help. I’m currently restoring a 112 JD round fender with the Tecumseh hh100. Can you tell me the point gap for that engine? I’m not getting spark. Thanks in advance
I've got a 1972 JD 110 with a Kohler K181 8hp engine and it has a stator magneto and I can't find a stator anywhere, only the magneto. Do the stators go bad? And is that why lots of people switch them over to have an outside coil pack? I would love to get a brand new stator for it but I have no idea where to look. Google and eBay have been zero luck for me so far.
I have a Wheel Horse C-105 with a Koehler KS241as 10 hp. I can only get it running with starting fluid for a few seconds. One time I was able to keep it running for a few minutes with the choke on, but that was only once. I replaced the fuel pump first & that was not it. Then I cleaned the carburetor & that was not it. Could the gap being off be a reason for starting only with starting fluid & then stopping shortly after? Do you think I need to tear it down? Any help would greatly be appreciated! Thank you!
I have a Kohler 341K and I think the points pushrod is to short, maybe changed by someone. The one I took out measures 1.541 do you know how long it should be ? Thanks
isavetractors Thanks for the quick reply. I think you're right on the groove in the shaft. I have round stock the exact diameter,I'm thinking of making it 1.650 because I don't have any adjustment left on the points. What are your thoughts on making it .100 longer ?
Brian Miller sells special points plungers with a wide foot. This plunger will allow it to ride on the unworn part of the camshaft. check out gardentractorpullingtips.com/ignition.htm His website is super old school and difficult to navigate but he has some great solutions for a worn camshaft. When you need other parts please think of us!
Great Video! Question, when the points are in the closed position are they then grounded to the engine block? Working with an electrical problem, and this is where I traced the ground coming from.
Such hope you correct my English, I have a Kohler K331 do not know if I made the coil connected to the capacitor well as three cables, a cable the delgadoestá bolted to the chassis, the medium connect it to the condenser where they are losplatinos and the thicker is connected to the spark plug, the problem is that it does spark the spark plug but no electricity because approaching the cable highlights spark but also not sure that this sharp cam as electrical pulses are unopor turn give full and say that the end of the combustion cycle sack two sparks and think it should be a spark, what do you think is the problem?
I am not completely understanding your problem but check out the following links for more information on the wiring of your ignition system: isavetractors.com/articles-1/
Impossible to get a screw driver on a John Deere 314 since the frame is in the way of the points. You need a stubbed little screw driver or a paint can opener.
Thanks for this. I was hoping to find an objective test to check the points and tell me good or no good. I have worked through coil and it is ok, condenser tests ok, but new spark plug (no spark), (starter, ok). Is this where I should just get the new points? (JD K301, 212, 1981)==Very well presented!!!
+Grimlbog E You're welcome. Glad you enjoyed my video. You can test your points by making sure they have continuity. Close your point while on the engine and touch the wire side of the points and engine ground and make sure your continuity tester shows continuity. If not, inspect your points and clean off any debris that may be on it. If there is no continuity your ignition coil will not produce a high voltage spark. Also make sure your point gap is correct. The most common reason for no spark is the points. I recommend replacing it. We sell it on our website. If new points don't fix your problem, you may need to remove your oil pan and inspect your camshaft for wear.
I recently inherited a Wheelhorse tractor, that has been painted over and used by a High School marching band. Further, it has sat under a tarp for a year or so. I’m not sure but I’m guessing it is s 1974, k C160 with k series Koehler engine and automatic (hydrostatic) transmission. I’m not sure how to correctly identify it, but I’m working on it. It doesn’t run and I find no spark at the plug. I will try to test the coil then go to the points and condenser. Any insight you may have would be greatly appreciated.
i have a 1974 wheelhorse c160 tractor as well it was given to me by a friend when i first got it it would turn over but have no spark at the spark plug so i decided to replace my coil and that fixed it but it could also be that you dont have a hot wire going to the positive side of the coil therefore leading to no spark how you test this is you turn your key to on and then push a flathead scredriver between your points if it makes a spark when you touch the points its getting power if you dont get a spark then it has no power to the coil therefore no power to the points
the points can be somewhat off and still have spark. they MUST close and they MUST open. to the extreme too tight and they never close which would cause a coil to never charge too loose they never open. beyond that spark quality is best if they close securely and open adequately and are clean and square.
isavetractors or anyone who knows - Question here, - I got my Kohler k582 /k7000 generator working by running a wire with in line switch from Batt+ to the ign. coil. It ran well for a week or so and then quit under load and now won't start, will crank. Did I burn up the coil by "hotwiring" it, Is it supposed to be running through a voltage reducer that I bypassed? Also the quit could have happened because of 1/4 tank fuel RV cutoff function. If that's the case, why wont it start now that there is gas in the tank? Do you think there's air where it shouldn't be in carb etc.? squirts gas when line is opened after fuel pump. Has new coil, condenser, points, plugs. (earlier -pre -start problem) the new plugs fouled quickly after accidentally running it at half choke a few times, cleaned them but still no start). Thanks-
If the coil has power and points /condenser are fine, has fuel, what else would make it not start - RV low fuel sensor?/ low oil sensor - I disconnected oil sens. and no difference, I don't know how to override low fuel sens.
Got it working! one of the wires on the positive side of coil was acting as a kill wire, (maybe a short?) when removed it, starts right up and runs strong, Awesome!
Hi I've a 301 off of a 212 , my issue is that it started to loose power on high idle but on low idle it's ok , one thing I notice is when I put an external charger on it runs better thank you
+Digging for a living I suggest first checking your Spark Plug, make sure it's in good condition, and gapped correctly. Then check your points, and air filter. If you have a badly clogged air filter your engine will not produce the power it should. Your engine needs 13 parts of air per 1 part of fuel. So Air is very important! Start there, and let me know if you need more assistance.
Good tutorial but how do you know that the points plunger is all the way out? You cant eye it up as only a few thousandths will throw the setting off. I don't see any alternative than to use a dial indicator
Hello. I've got a 66 Deere 110 with the k181s. Does anyone know where the timing sight hole is? It's a bit hard for me to tell max point gap by sight. I'm also wondering if it might be possible to determine wear on the lobe by measuring the movement of the timing pin with a runout gauge, and then comparing it with the movement of the pin of a known good cam. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Do they make an electronic ignition for these engines? I have a 1978 Power King Economy,with a 10 h.p. Kohler engine. It may need a transmission. Somebody broke the gearshift off of it. I haven't pulled the top off yet, but was told the whole sheet metal housing has to come off.
What a great website www.gardentractorpullingtips.com/index.htm The diagrams are excellent, sometimes hand drawn, and easy to read. The writing in the articles, is down to earth, just like he is talking to you. His prices are good, and he has the explanations, most websites lack. This site delivers.
trying to get my new points set (from isavetractors) on my jd 210. when I loosen the screw and put the .020 feeler guage in between the position and then tighten the screw down, when I remove the feeler guage, the gap closes....so, I'm obviously not doing something correctly. I turned over the crank with the plug out and moving the ribbed area on the drivers left side of the motor and turned it until the plunger was out its furtheset. is that correct?
You're doing it right. It can just take a little knack to get it at exactly 020. The act of tightening the screw can close the gap a tiny bit so just tweak the point opening with your wrist a little Tighten and then double check
@@Isavetractors I'll fiddle with it in the morning. lost light...if I have 12V at the positive side of the coil with key on...it *SHOULD* be able to provide spark from the coil to the points and then to the plug...correct?
@@Isavetractors OK, I think I have them set to .020 again. With the plunger out as far as it will go I have a gap in between the point of this value. But still no spark... I'm getting 12V at the coil. with key on .... what does this mean then? Have these parts I bought failed? if so, that cannot be normal....
@@Isavetractors question on the points wire installation. Is the wire installed on the phillips head screw to exit the bottom left corner or the top right? when I connect the wire to the points, for it to fit on the grooved plastic part with the metal flange it has to fit on a downward path. ie: I don't want to bend the wire to have it exit the bottom left. is this correct?
I have a k181 it’s not a k181s with a starter. It’s a pull start. It has points but no traditional Kohler coil. I don’t see a condenser I can’t figure out how to time it. It has points though
FYI: .20 is the MAX setting for Kohler K-series points. This is just your starting point. Either use a timing light or the static timing method to dial the timing in accurately. Your engine may not run all that great by just simply setting to .20 and leaving it at that.
@TheSaturnV took my flywheel off, have the manual describing your suggestion. Is there any adjustment for the magneto? Never saw a magneto that you cant adjust..I am not getting spark and I need to figure out what to do. Can I check the stator, condemsor and wires with a dvm? Thak you for the help Jim
@@jamesmacdonnell4085 Did you ever figure out your magneto system problem? I have a K301 from around the late 60s with a magneto and coil sitting on the magneto. No spark at all, driving me crazy, haven't figured it out so far. I haven't adjusted the points yet, though. I'm going to do that tomorrow.
HAD K-301 REBILT YEARS AGO,ALWAYS RAN BAD?SAW THE POINTS HARDLY OPENING? SET TO 20 THEN RAN BETTER,AND SAW TIMING MARK ABOUT 20 DEGREES OFF ,REMOVED ENGINE CHECKED CAM TIMING,LOOKED OUT 1 TOOTH INSTALLED AND RESET TIMING USING A TIMING LITE THEN CHECKED POINT GAP 15 THOU? IF I SET TO 20 THE S MARK IS ABOUT 1 INCH LOW,SO I RESET USING A TIMING LITE,TO GET THE S ON THE FLYWHEEL ,SEEMS SLUGGISH ,AND DIES IF I PASS THE TIMING MARK 1/4 INCH AT THAT POINT THE POINTS AREN'T OPENING???
+Jon Telliard Hi Jon, The lobe on your camshaft is likely severely worn and a groove has appeared. You can fix this by taking your engine apart and threading one end of the points plunger, and adding a nut. secure with loctite. This makes it so your points plunger rides on an unworn part of your camshaft.
Sent you an email, but are the points outside the engine like that on most kohlers? I have a simplicity 6517 with a mv18 vertical engine I believe - lots of parts missing so hard to tell.
@@Isavetractors hmm well that's good to know, it's an opposed twin and it seems like it has spark, but maybe theres a timing adjustment I can do? I dont know if it's for sure a mv18 because there was no engine cover
@@Isavetractors is it supposed to have that large ignition coil cylinder with 2 wires going to it thing to start it? Right now it has no battery, no starter, wiring is cut up.
@@Isavetractors well I got a new magneto and slapped the old, crusty, missing parts carb on and threw some gas in it and it turned over! I'll have to look into getting parts for this carb or maybe get the one you sell.
@@Isavetractors have you ever rebuilt a Kohler vertical shaft opposed twin? If I did strip it down I'm afraid of not being able to get new parts or gaskets if I break them
Thank you for a very clear explanation on installing and setting the points on this type of engine. Very much appreciated!
Now that’s how you explain how to make adjustments. straight to the point and thorough, step-by-step with good lighting great video and great job
AND, no ridiculous annoying background music!
Thanks man I knew nothing about the point system but your tutorial was so concise and you broke down the theory so perfectly that it left me no choice but to comprehend it. Excellent!!
Well done. Steady cam ,good lighting . All content. No wasted time . Keep up the good work
Great tutorial! I am a professional technician, I see quite a few of the Onans but dont see the Kohler K series much. Your videos have been a great help in showing the best way to service the ignition systems on these engines. Thanks and keep up the great work!
Thanks brother, trying to get this old gravely alive and kicking again. You were a big help!! Kudos!!
Sr. I just wanted to thank you for a great video. I did exactly what you suggested on your video and in matter of minutes after adjusting the points, my Kohler engine came alive. Thank you Sr.
I bought a rebuilt kit from you guys,and now it runs great, highly recommended.
Thank you for the review!
Just the info I needed. Have a Kohler K532 in a John Deere 400 (circa 1980) and hope those points are easy to find and not tucked away in some odd hiding place. ;-) Recently watched your video on complete restoration of a 400. Great! Thanks
Many thanks for the wealth of knowledge you've left us online. I frequently reference your videos. Now to get the old k241 running again on my gravely 5465! I hope you and the family are doing well, miss seeing your videos, I hope to see you back on youtube someday. Take care.
People like you are great for the internet and the world! Thank you for your comment.
Thanks for doing what you do. I own a Cub Cadet 147, and your company is a great resource.
I'm a teacher. I was going to say you should be a teacher. But, then, you are, and a damn good one!
I just bought my first garden tractor last week due to you tutorial on your Cub Cadet 149. money is kind of tight so I looked and looked for one that I could afford well I finally found 2 wheel horse gt14 it came with 2 mower decks and 2 rototiller and 2 3 point hitch they are both hydrostatic for a great price off 300 I think that will be the buy of the year for me since my budget only allowed for 600 so I still have 300 to fix the tractor. am super excited about my build I have to say thank you sir I will be ordering some parts soon. have a good one
iwantosavemoney I am glad to hear it! it will be a very rewarding project for you. if you need any help let me know! thank you for saving the tractors! you got a great price on those GT's
You guys have been a big help in getting my K 241 running again, Thank you so much and keep up the great work.
Another well done instructional video. Thanks
I don't believe it!!! An actual useful video on you tube !!! Who would-a thunk. Thank You
That was a lame observation
Not really.. That comment is certainly warranted. You've got clowns out there, like Taryl Fixes All, etc. who bullshit around, chit-chatting a bunch of nonsense, trying to be funny, then I end up getting annoyed, closing the video, and not learning anything. Norm cuts straight to the chase, no clowning around, no bullshit, no filler and you're actually able to learn something. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You have a great channel here. I just bought my first garden tractor, a 1979 Ford LGT 165. Videos like this are super helpful. Before this video I didn't even know what these "points" were, where to find them or much less how to adjust them and why all of that would matter. I consider myself reasonably (if not) dangerously educated on the subject now and you'll have my business when it's time to enter the next stage of my restoration process.
Hey Norman How are you. I wasn’t a fan of the old Kohler engines but now enjoy getting the ones I get to work on running like a top. Excellent video tutorial. isavetractors has excellent service and information.
Nice! Clear instructions on YT without alot of babble..who'd a thunk it?
very nice a great video made by a person with knowledge of engine and CAMERA!!! excellent a video that is watchable. to everyone else with crappy videos buy a tripod and don't shoot during a wind storm lol
Norman, thank you. A great reminder and well done.
Thanks for the video. You guys are awesome.
points are missunderstood they form the ground path of the coil. so when they are closed the coil charges up. when they open the coil is sitting there charged up and that electricity is looking for a place to go. when the points are closed the coil is the place to be. but when opened the. next best place is to run out the other winding down the spark plug lead and jump from the plug wire through the air to the body of the spark plug into the head and therefore back to ground. thats why spark plug gap and plug type and coil resistance and wire resistance are a thing. we need the points to break enough to drop the field in the coil enough that the electricity is motivated to do the work of jumping that spark plug.
Thanks for your tips.....sure makes things a lot easier.
Clear and to the point! Excellent video.
Hi Norman hi Norman this is Richard Wiki from San Antonio Texas
Hi Richard. Send me an email info@isavetractors.com
I have a late 60s K301. I was told it ran some months ago and just stopped running. I took the flywheel off and saw it had broken on the shaft, the key broken. Thought that was the spark problem for sure but still, "0" spark even after putting a new coil on the magneto. I'm going to adjust the points tomorrow, but it ran so recently. So what if the gap is too wide, is there no spark or sometimes a spark and so it will run bad? The gap is wide, I tell by just looking at it open, but they do close.
this helped me out I got a tune up kit now i will install it ... Thanks for the help
Very good how to vedio, no bullshit,,,good camera positioning and well spoken,,,Thanks,,I just learned A lot about the compressor engine that runs a 4 cylinder speedaire I'm restoring,,,
Great web site , u r da man, just picked up my 2nd Horse 312-8 I may need this info for my latest tractor fix er up. Keep the great info coming.....
Let us know if you ever have any questions or help. You can always call us and ask for Norman!
Thanks for making the video. Helped me fix the problem!👍🏼
JorgeCanAm ATVs show me Point setting on Dual points on 1952 Seagrave fire truck
I have followed your videos and replicated the work to the best of my abilities. My 917 Allis will run, but after a few mowings it looses power when the pto is engaged. The most significant issue I’ve ran across is that one side runs very hot and the other much cooler. Any ideas?
great videos , valves, points , governor and carb clean and adjusted.. runs better than it wver has
I have a k91 kohler that has no spark... I replaced ignition coil...condenser...and cleaned and gapped the points... Any thoughts will be appreciated
Hey I have a question my friend has a 1968 John deere 140 h3 same engine as that one and we converted to regular coil not inside a flywheel and we did a wiring properly and we are having no spark we can't figure that out i will appreciate if u reply thanks
Hi I have a 212 tractor how do you open the point? By turning the key of the ignition? I know you said crankshaft but I don’t know where it is.
Nice upload brother I'm working on a 1970 JD110 with the 7HP Kohler, its been running terrible so I removed the carb and soaked it cleaned it with tip cleaner and blew it out it was running yesterday and today no spark. Its pouring out now so I got to wait to do this.
+JRoberts1260 Thank you. Often times with these old carburetors the throttle shafts get worn and let in air throwing yoru air fuel mixture off. If cleaning your carburetor doesn't help you may want to replace it. We sell the correct carburetor for your engine. Regarding the no spark. The most common reason I have found for no spark in my customers is improper gap setting or worn points. We sell those too if you need them. Good luck and thank you for saving the tractors! I love those round fender JD 110's! Classic!
Yea I can see that on the primary throttle butterfly, Cant justify the cost of a new carb at the moment. or purchasing the points but I did check them as per your video and they are in spec now, actually have two old tractors a JD110, and a cub cadet from the mid 60s its carb is soaking but also no spasrk on that girl either....As time and finances allow ill get em both up and running.
JRoberts1260 Let me know if you need any help with anything. Thank you for saving the tractors!
Great presentation, straight to the point,
You mean straight to the "points" don't you. Sorry, couldn't help myself.
@@donaldshimkus539 Touche
Great video. I am replacing coil, plugs, carb, condenser and points on a K582. Your video is about to save me time and unnecessary damage due to frustration. The only suggestion I would make is the lighting could have been a little brighter. I could see what you were teaching well enough, but I like to compare everything on my points to yours. Like the wire from the coil , I believe I had that incorrect. Thank you for posting.
Thanks for your comment! I have since upgraded my lighting situation. Thanks for the feedback.
I am also trying to get a Kohler K582 /K7000 Generator to start with no luck so far. I replaced the coil, plugs, fuel pump and Fuel filter. Cranks, no spark. lookedat/cleaned points, has very little movement at points, I adjusted but still no spark. If the condensor is bad would that prevent it from starting?
A bad condenser would cause your points to wear a lot faster. Check all safety devices and wiring to make sure they are all working.
What are you setting the gap at? Have you tried a test lite at the coil? Is there any power anywhere? I had to replace the wire from the coil to the points as it had become crunchy from decades of heat. The clip that screws to the points had to be replaced. Finally, does your battery have a fresh charge?
I don't have the gap tool, wire looks ancient. that's a good suggestion to replace. no spark at points/plug .has power at starter,cranks has fuel. i don't know how to disable oil sens/ fuel sens if those are disabling start.
Great Job Norman such a helpful task
Looking for some advice for my good old IH CC 1650. Engine is the factory installed K341. It has very good compression,,can't remember the psi off the top of my head...Does not knock or burn any oil and starts quickly even in cold winter weather. I have slowly rebuilt this old tractor for the last two years..Made my own repair on the trunion also and all is good...My issue is the engine is falling flat under load...I only get good power when I hold the hydro lever back to slow it down. I have checked and re set the points..Thought for sure I had it there as the gap was down to .005" Set it at .020 while at the widest point. put in a new plug and it did help some as it started instantly in the cold weather and no backfire when shutting it off...It may have some cam wear is what i am thinking and is causing this issue..I also reset the governor rod by loosening the bolt and turning the shaft as far to the left as it would go..I scribed the shaft at that position the proceeded to pull back on the governor rod to the carb and tightened it....Still dogging out when I push the lever all the way forward...I have cleaned and tuned the carb as well and it acts like the governor is having a tough time keeping up with the changes on engine load. The sensitivity actually is to little not to much as the spring and adjustment holes are all slightly worn from years of use...I believe I am down to replacing the whole governor system as well as being time for a new carb as well...Everything else looks good, coil and the rest of the ignition system is right on,,,unless the gap is false from a worn cam...Any other ideas....? thanks
Hi great information! Question I have 1987-90 bobcat with 14hp Kohler trying to find parts (plug &wire etc) what series would this be like K or M and engine K141 etc or K482 etc. thanks John
Thanks got mine going after doing this
I actually bought an ignition coil from you guys last year for my 1977 John Deere 208. Does the .020 point gap also apply to the K181s engine?
Gregory Guza yes it sure does! thank you for your business. let me know if you have anymore questions
I'll be guessing all the way and by looks
the procedure you are showing is the static procedure there is another way. dynamic procedure. you can time a kohler with a timing light. on the side of the blower housing there is a plug. spin the flywheel by hand, there is a timing mark. mark that timing machine with a white paint marker so you can see it. start the engine, the light should strobe the same time the mark comes into view of the hole. both methods actually work, but i think the dynamic is a little more accurate.
I bought the pf.engeneering plans . What hydrolic pump # would be best with power beyond port.?
Well made out side of the engine...would you know the splak plug number for 16 hp cooler 1 cylinder like this one ???
We recommend the Champion H10C plug.
Fantastic and helpful video thank you
I have a john deere 317 with a kohler kt17 series 1 my plunger for points doesnt come out when I spin the crankshaft put new points on it and noticed the plunger doesnt come out too set it any idea of whats wrong or how too fix this problem would be greatly appreciated thanks
I just got my coil and points from you and hooked everything up and now I don't have any spark, I rechecked the points gap, and the gap in the plug and everything checks out. Any ideas?
Give our office a call on Monday.
Have you ever changed the left side crankshaft / block seal , seen at time 3:50 without removing the crankshaft?
I have a leak in that seal and was wondering just how difficult it would be or if it can be done before I try without removing the crank..
Yes I have. You can screw in a couple of small drywall type screws. Screw them into the seal and use pliers to yank it out.
I was told I probably have a flat spot on the cam and either need too replace it or weld a little where the plunger hits cam so it will push it in and out again.
ok question i cant seem to find the timing mark on the cover on a kq532, need some help to find it...
Norman. Have you ever had a bad set of NEW Kohler OEM points. I had that issue this morning. Thankfully, I had another new set on the shelf. It drove me nuts for 45 minutes trying to set them with a multi meter before I figured out they didn't have continuity.
Anyhow, I love your videos. Keep them coming.
Hi There, contact points are often stored with a protective coating on them to prevent them from rusting. Try spraying carb cleaner on it and rub them with regular computer paper, that should fix it for you.
Yeah, I'll give that a try. But, the good set is in and timed. So, they will go back on the shelf if they prove good. Question for you. I notice that you have used parts on your site. Do you run across used K341 heads? When I got this motor, the plug was stripped out, so I TIG welded it and re tapped and it's held for 8 years. But, I would like to have a good one as a spare just in case this one lets loose again. Also, I need the correct governor linkage spring. I can't find one on line anywhere. Thanks for your quick response. Mark
We have the governor linkage spring. check this out :isavetractors.com/springs/ We also do sell the K341 heads but we are sold out right now. When we get them, they sell really quickly. Buy points from us in the future. They will always be good! Let me know if you need anything else in the future.
EXCELLENT. Thanks
Is it ok to use fine sand paper to clean the points? I thought that's what people always say to do. Or is that too aggressive?
Too aggressive. I just used a folded up dollar bill.
my k321 will not run if the points are more then .004 . it runs backwards anything wider
Hi, I have a ckm21 kohler. It started running terrible especially when I put a load on it. I changed points, condenser and gapped 20 thousand. Still ran lousy. Pulled carb and sonic cleaned it and still bogs under a load. The motor only has about 150 hrs on it. What do I check next???
That's the same problem I'm having with my K301. Did you ever figure it out?
If I wanted to advance my timing just a tad, would I go with a wider gap or smaller gap?
You would want a smaller gap to advance timing
I'm putting new points on my Cub 108, as it won't spark. It's the last thing I suspect to be the issue with it, so if it doesn't work, I will have to do some real investigation! Fingers crossed here. Lol
If my points need replaced, what will my engine symptoms be? Mine is reving when I have it w.o. It idles fine?
Typically the engine will knock and run erratically. Your situation may be related to your governor or carburetor or both
Thank you so much for making this video. It really helped me out it saved my fucking ass.
I'll be using something else to set mine because I'm lacking some tools so something with the same thickness of that tool will do
And valve cleaner spray because its been sitting for so many years a little wetness will loosen it up
I'm sure it need all new parts on mine
As I was trying to take the cover off the points the wire fed thru the cover popped loose... I crimped back on a new U connector but I can't tell where it went... In looking at video it appears to be under lower screw, facing slightly downward. Please confirm, thanks for the help!
The wire clips to the little screw that is affixed to the piece of metal spring material.
A folded up dollar bill works great for cleaning the points
Thanks for these videos. I’ve been watching you for years and really appreciate your help. I’m currently restoring a 112 JD round fender with the Tecumseh hh100. Can you tell me the point gap for that engine? I’m not getting spark.
Thanks in advance
That works pretty good, but I like setting them with a test light better.
How you do that
I have a Briggs and Stratton. When I move the engine by hand or by turning the key, nothing moves. Any idea?
Great channel. Subscribed.
I've got a 1972 JD 110 with a Kohler K181 8hp engine and it has a stator magneto and I can't find a stator anywhere, only the magneto. Do the stators go bad? And is that why lots of people switch them over to have an outside coil pack? I would love to get a brand new stator for it but I have no idea where to look. Google and eBay have been zero luck for me so far.
Yea the magneto systems can be harder to come by and hard to Service since you have to remove the engine from the machine in many cases.
@@Isavetractors can you help me find one? I'm not having much luck at all. Trying to save this tractors life and keep it in the family.
I have a Wheel Horse C-105 with a Koehler KS241as 10 hp. I can only get it running with starting fluid for a few seconds. One time I was able to keep it running for a few minutes with the choke on, but that was only once. I replaced the fuel pump first & that was not it. Then I cleaned the carburetor & that was not it. Could the gap being off be a reason for starting only with starting fluid & then stopping shortly after? Do you think I need to tear it down? Any help would greatly be appreciated! Thank you!
JT122004 yes your timing could be off but it's more likely an issue with your valves. check out your valve clearances
The plunger on mine is not moving what could this be from
I don't have the gap tool, wire looks ancient. that's a good suggestion. no spark at points/plug .has power at starter,cranks has fuel
Which way should a 14 hp Kohler rotation be looking at the front cover? Counter clockwise or clockwise
Clockwise when looking at the flywheel
I have a Kohler 341K and I think the points pushrod is to short, maybe changed by someone. The one I took out measures 1.541 do you know how long it should be ? Thanks
It should be 1.550" Your camshaft may have a groove worn into it throwing it off.
isavetractors Thanks for the quick reply. I think you're right on the groove in the shaft. I have round stock the exact diameter,I'm thinking of making it 1.650 because I don't have any adjustment left on the points. What are your thoughts on making it .100 longer ?
Brian Miller sells special points plungers with a wide foot. This plunger will allow it to ride on the unworn part of the camshaft. check out gardentractorpullingtips.com/ignition.htm
His website is super old school and difficult to navigate but he has some great solutions for a worn camshaft.
When you need other parts please think of us!
isavetractors Thank you, I will !
Ivan Bentley Claymore push rrod?
Great Video! Question, when the points are in the closed position are they then grounded to the engine block? Working with an electrical problem, and this is where I traced the ground coming from.
Yes that's correct!
@@Isavetractors and should I be able to read that ground thru the coil on the opposite side?
@@CrisisGuildWOW if the coil is good, then yes, you will have a ohm reading or a pratial ground on both of the primary connections of the coil.
@@michaelvrooman5681 thank you.
Thank you Norman!
Great, but u should’ve mentioned when the plunger gets worn out the oil will leak through onto the points, stopping spark
Cheers really helped the spark on mine
Such hope you correct my English, I have a Kohler K331 do not know if I made the coil connected to the capacitor well as three cables, a cable the delgadoestá bolted to the chassis, the medium connect it to the condenser where they are losplatinos and the thicker is connected to the spark plug, the problem is that it does spark the spark plug but no electricity because approaching the cable highlights spark but also not sure that this sharp cam as electrical pulses are unopor turn give full and say that the end of the combustion cycle sack two sparks and think it should be a spark, what do you think is the problem?
I am not completely understanding your problem but check out the following links for more information on the wiring of your ignition system: isavetractors.com/articles-1/
Impossible to get a screw driver on a John Deere 314 since the frame is in the way of the points. You need a stubbed little screw driver or a paint can opener.
Yea some machines it's a real pain.
Thanks for this. I was hoping to find an objective test to check the points and tell me good or no good. I have worked through coil and it is ok, condenser tests ok, but new spark plug (no spark), (starter, ok). Is this where I should just get the new points? (JD K301, 212, 1981)==Very well presented!!!
+Grimlbog E You're welcome. Glad you enjoyed my video. You can test your points by making sure they have continuity. Close your point while on the engine and touch the wire side of the points and engine ground and make sure your continuity tester shows continuity. If not, inspect your points and clean off any debris that may be on it. If there is no continuity your ignition coil will not produce a high voltage spark. Also make sure your point gap is correct. The most common reason for no spark is the points. I recommend replacing it. We sell it on our website. If new points don't fix your problem, you may need to remove your oil pan and inspect your camshaft for wear.
+isavetractors
Thanks!---will give it a try.
Good video! Does it matter which direction you turn the crankshaft to get the points to open at their widest ? Thanks!
No it doesn't matter but as a matter of reference these engines normally turn clockwise when looking at the flywheel end.
isavetractors Gotcha. Thanks again. My Cub Cadet runs really rough at mid to higher speeds so I'll check the points and see what happens.
I recently inherited a Wheelhorse tractor, that has been painted over and used by a High School marching band. Further, it has sat under a tarp for a year or so. I’m not sure but I’m guessing it is s 1974, k C160 with k series Koehler engine and automatic (hydrostatic) transmission. I’m not sure how to correctly identify it, but I’m working on it. It doesn’t run and I find no spark at the plug. I will try to test the coil then go to the points and condenser. Any insight you may have would be greatly appreciated.
Check out our video on Tractor Wiring. That should give you some additional insight. Good luck with your project!
i have a 1974 wheelhorse c160 tractor as well it was given to me by a friend when i first got it it would turn over but have no spark at the spark plug so i decided to replace my coil and that fixed it but it could also be that you dont have a hot wire going to the positive side of the coil therefore leading to no spark how you test this is you turn your key to on and then push a flathead scredriver between your points if it makes a spark when you touch the points its getting power if you dont get a spark then it has no power to the coil therefore no power to the points
When the points are not correct you will have no spark at all that's correct?
the points can be somewhat off and still have spark. they MUST close and they MUST open. to the extreme too tight and they never close which would cause a coil to never charge too loose they never open. beyond that spark quality is best if they close securely and open adequately and are clean and square.
isavetractors or anyone who knows - Question here, - I got my Kohler k582 /k7000 generator working by running a wire with in line switch from Batt+ to the ign. coil. It ran well for a week or so and then quit under load and now won't start, will crank. Did I burn up the coil by "hotwiring" it, Is it supposed to be running through a voltage reducer that I bypassed? Also the quit could have happened because of 1/4 tank fuel RV cutoff function. If that's the case, why wont it start now that there is gas in the tank? Do you think there's air where it shouldn't be in carb etc.? squirts gas when line is opened after fuel pump. Has new coil, condenser, points, plugs. (earlier -pre -start problem) the new plugs fouled quickly after accidentally running it at half choke a few times, cleaned them but still no start). Thanks-
If the coil has power and points /condenser are fine, has fuel, what
else would make it not start - RV low fuel sensor?/ low oil sensor - I
disconnected oil sens. and no difference, I don't know how to override
low fuel sens.
Got it working! one of the wires on the positive side of coil was acting as a kill wire, (maybe a short?) when removed it, starts right up and runs strong, Awesome!
Hi I've a 301 off of a 212 , my issue is that it started to loose power on high idle but on low idle it's ok , one thing I notice is when I put an external charger on it runs better thank you
+Digging for a living I suggest first checking your Spark Plug, make sure it's in good condition, and gapped correctly. Then check your points, and air filter. If you have a badly clogged air filter your engine will not produce the power it should. Your engine needs 13 parts of air per 1 part of fuel. So Air is very important! Start there, and let me know if you need more assistance.
Thank you for the good advice , I did realize how important air fuel mix could be but now it makes sense thanks again I'll check it this weekend
Good tutorial but how do you know that the points plunger is all the way out? You cant eye it up as only a few thousandths will throw the setting off. I don't see any alternative than to use a dial indicator
See my other video on using a multimeter to set timing. However this method is equally effective
$ bills work very very good at cleaning points
thanks for sharing. very nice
Hello. I've got a 66 Deere 110 with the k181s. Does anyone know where the timing sight hole is? It's a bit hard for me to tell max point gap by sight.
I'm also wondering if it might be possible to determine wear on the lobe by measuring the movement of the timing pin with a runout gauge, and then comparing it with the movement of the pin of a known good cam.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Probably not a worn cam Probably worn plunger
Do they make an electronic ignition for these engines? I have a 1978 Power King Economy,with a 10 h.p. Kohler engine. It may need a transmission. Somebody broke the gearshift off of it. I haven't pulled the top off yet, but was told the whole sheet metal housing has to come off.
Luvstruck our friend Brian Miller sells an electronic ignition kit. visit his website www.gardentractorpullingtips.com
What a great website www.gardentractorpullingtips.com/index.htm The diagrams are excellent, sometimes hand drawn, and easy to read. The writing in the articles, is down to earth, just like he is talking to you. His prices are good, and he has the explanations, most websites lack. This site delivers.
trying to get my new points set (from isavetractors) on my jd 210. when I loosen the screw and put the .020 feeler guage in between the position and then tighten the screw down, when I remove the feeler guage, the gap closes....so, I'm obviously not doing something correctly. I turned over the crank with the plug out and moving the ribbed area on the drivers left side of the motor and turned it until the plunger was out its furtheset. is that correct?
You're doing it right. It can just take a little knack to get it at exactly 020. The act of tightening the screw can close the gap a tiny bit so just tweak the point opening with your wrist a little Tighten and then double check
@@Isavetractors I'll fiddle with it in the morning. lost light...if I have 12V at the positive side of the coil with key on...it *SHOULD* be able to provide spark from the coil to the points and then to the plug...correct?
Yes
@@Isavetractors OK, I think I have them set to .020 again. With the plunger out as far as it will go I have a gap in between the point of this value. But still no spark... I'm getting 12V at the coil. with key on .... what does this mean then? Have these parts I bought failed? if so, that cannot be normal....
@@Isavetractors question on the points wire installation. Is the wire installed on the phillips head screw to exit the bottom left corner or the top right? when I connect the wire to the points, for it to fit on the grooved plastic part with the metal flange it has to fit on a downward path. ie: I don't want to bend the wire to have it exit the bottom left. is this correct?
I have a k181 it’s not a k181s with a starter. It’s a pull start. It has points but no traditional Kohler coil. I don’t see a condenser I can’t figure out how to time it. It has points though
Hi There. Your engine likely has a magneto based ignition system, and the coil is under the flywheel.
@@Isavetractors Is it supposed to have points? and if so should it have a condenser?
I have a k241 10 hp in my John deere. You guys sell kits for rebuild?
+Steve Townsender yes we do. Check them out at www.isavetractors.com
FYI: .20 is the MAX setting for Kohler K-series points. This is just your starting point. Either use a timing light or the static timing method to dial the timing in accurately. Your engine may not run all that great by just simply setting to .20 and leaving it at that.
@TheSaturnV took my flywheel off, have the manual describing your suggestion. Is there any adjustment for the magneto? Never saw a magneto that you cant adjust..I am not getting spark and I need to figure out what to do. Can I check the stator, condemsor and wires with a dvm? Thak you for the help
Jim
@@jamesmacdonnell4085 Did you ever figure out your magneto system problem? I have a K301 from around the late 60s with a magneto and coil sitting on the magneto. No spark at all, driving me crazy, haven't figured it out so far. I haven't adjusted the points yet, though. I'm going to do that tomorrow.
Fuckin awesome channel and website man thank you
Excellent!
HAD K-301 REBILT YEARS AGO,ALWAYS RAN BAD?SAW THE POINTS HARDLY OPENING? SET TO 20 THEN RAN BETTER,AND SAW TIMING MARK ABOUT 20 DEGREES OFF ,REMOVED ENGINE CHECKED CAM TIMING,LOOKED OUT 1 TOOTH INSTALLED AND RESET TIMING USING A TIMING LITE THEN CHECKED POINT GAP 15 THOU? IF I SET TO 20 THE S MARK IS ABOUT 1 INCH LOW,SO I RESET USING A TIMING LITE,TO GET THE S ON THE FLYWHEEL ,SEEMS SLUGGISH ,AND DIES IF I PASS THE TIMING MARK 1/4 INCH AT THAT POINT THE POINTS AREN'T OPENING???
+Jon Telliard Hi Jon, The lobe on your camshaft is likely severely worn and a groove has appeared. You can fix this by taking your engine apart and threading one end of the points plunger, and adding a nut. secure with loctite. This makes it so your points plunger rides on an unworn part of your camshaft.
Were did you get ponts at
Isavetractors.com
Sent you an email, but are the points outside the engine like that on most kohlers? I have a simplicity 6517 with a mv18 vertical engine I believe - lots of parts missing so hard to tell.
Hi there. The MV18 engines do not use points. Instead they use a solid state ignition system.
@@Isavetractors hmm well that's good to know, it's an opposed twin and it seems like it has spark, but maybe theres a timing adjustment I can do? I dont know if it's for sure a mv18 because there was no engine cover
@@Isavetractors is it supposed to have that large ignition coil cylinder with 2 wires going to it thing to start it? Right now it has no battery, no starter, wiring is cut up.
@@Isavetractors well I got a new magneto and slapped the old, crusty, missing parts carb on and threw some gas in it and it turned over! I'll have to look into getting parts for this carb or maybe get the one you sell.
@@Isavetractors have you ever rebuilt a Kohler vertical shaft opposed twin? If I did strip it down I'm afraid of not being able to get new parts or gaskets if I break them