I finished my PhD right before the COVID-19 pandemics started. I am still avoiding Postdoc positions (December 2020) because I would like to transition to the industry. And it's been extremely hard to get a job, no success so far, I guess now it's harder than ever. You can add migration challenges to that (like residence permit expiration, temporarily moving to a neighboring country). I know I just have to keep pushing. But staying without a job for almost a year in a foreign country starts affecting my mental health (and my hard-earned savings). It turned out that doing a PhD was not the best decision. It helped me to migrate but all this "achievement" is being erased now. I am not necessarily asking for advice but rather wanted to share my struggles. However, I will appreciate any advice as well.
I feel you, Ruslan. This year has given us so many challenges that we never anticipated. I'm sure it is particularly hard when you are in a foreign country. I'm hopeful that the positive vaccine results will start to bring us back to something more normal by mid-2021. Hang in there and stay strong.
I'm glad you found it helpful. You can still use the time to your benefit if you plan your target in industry and focus on developing industry habits while completing your postdoc. See my videos on the 5 Habits Successful PhDs in industry learn quickly: ua-cam.com/video/pJ0qvLKOQSw/v-deo.html
I can't thank you enough for this video. I'm binge-watching videos about people complaining about phd and post doc since I want to do a research job myself. I'm ok with the difficulties and the strugles but none of those people have worked in the industry like I want and I definitely needed your point of view. So, again, thank you sir, you maybe have saved me a lot of time loss.
You are very welcome. I’m so glad you found it helpful. There is still a lot of pressure in academia to continue and do a postdoc, despite the fact that 95% of us PhDs will leave academia. This mindset needs to change.
Well, I got my first baby after PhD, and now on my first term of PostDoc, expecting my second in 4 months, with half a year postdoc contract after coming back from maternity leave. During this term of postdoc, I got to futher develop a model that I finished during my PhD. Meanwhile, I took the chance of the flexibility in the acedemic world to take care of my family side. I plan to switch to industry in the end, but I think for this individual case, I don't think it's such a bad idea doing this postdoc-- enjoying what I am doing but not so worried about publications or the no-ending career path climbing in the university; and enjoying family time, which I would expect to be difficult working in the company.
It sounds like you found a really good reason why it made sense for you to do a postdoc. Thank you for sharing your story and helping others who might find this option valuable.
There is another very very specific (but pretty common) exception, which is sort of a spin-off of your last point. This is for students coming from India (and a few other countries) to the US (specifically). Industry job almost certainly puts them in an extremely disadvantageous position, because of green-card backlogs, unless they are multinational executives. In an academic career they still have "some hope", and hence going for a postdoc makes sense for them (Or move to Canada!).
I have a master's degree in a traditional science field, namely analytical chemistry. My PhD that I'n currently finishing up is in chemistry education research, which I pursued because I thought I wanted a job in a academia. But after seeing all of the politics in academia and the chance for faster promotion in industry, I am now exclusively applying for industry positions. I've advertised my education research experience as experience in creating lab procedures for undergraduates and being a fast learner of new techniques myself, which is true. I've got some job interviews coming up, so I think I'll continue to position myself as someone with a growth mindset and a quick learner even if I lack some of the more technical skills of a traditional bench PhD chemist.
That sounds like a great plan. I hope your interviews go well! And great to hear that you've gotten some interviews! The online application game can be quite a gamble. This video outlines my thoughts on that: ua-cam.com/video/7SP5iCEenwM/v-deo.html And it's only gotten worse in the last few years.
I have seen many jobs require completed postdoc experience. I know some postdoc friends who moved on to Industry job and they even told me many jobs need postdoc experience. Why is that? I am still a PhD student. I remember when I started my grad school, postdoc in the lab told me don't do a postdoc. When they got a job, they changed their tone and suggest me postdoc is important for these types of job. It looks like they have experienced the postdoc path and they want me to do the same thing.
Great question, Qing. Since I've posted this video, I've gotten some feedback that there are research jobs in the Pharma industry that are much more like academic research, and that for these jobs a postdoc can be helpful. Aside from that sector, I've still not heard that a postdoc helps.
Thanks for sharing this helpful video. I fit exactly into that exception category you mentioned at the end of this video. To give a little bit of background, I did my PhD in South Korea and currently doing a postdoc in US for 1.5 years. Could you give a little bit of advice on how to look for job opportunities and how to craft my time here to successfully get into industry? I know this question may be too general but I'sd appreciate any kind of advice! Thanks.
Spend more time to get the awareness of industry jobs. Find and contact the key persons in the company. Don't think about salary, if the work is suitable to you (in the industry).
I want to add another point the Pandemic. Even academia is not secure during this time as government will cut funding that leads to few grants that support postdocs
That would certainly be more valuable, but I'm always skeptical of an 'industry postdoc.' Is this just a low-pay temporary position? Why not just give you a real job?
Holy smokes. I forgot to get a B.S. Then a M.S. Then a PhD. Then a couple of Post Docs. Missed out on writing dozens of research papers. But I did get turned down by the Lab Director at an IBM Research Lab for a job transfer, after a face to face meeting. He was an empty suit. I was not. His latest project failed. Mine did not. My PhD experience. They are not technically current. They alter data to fit their recommendations.
I just finished my bachelor's and starting a year-long post-bacc in a few months. Afterwards, I plan to start my PhD hopefully in pharmaceutics right after. Is it a good idea to take industry summer internships such as with Merck, Boehringer, or even gov't ones with CDC/NIH during the time frame of completing the PhD? Would this reflect better on me rather than a postdoc when aiming for an industry position afterwards? Thank you for sharing your insight on whether or not to do a postdoc!
I think that internships are an excellent idea for anyone going into industry, and they will be generally much better received than a postdoc. Bon courage for a productive and rewarding time working on your PhD!
I want to ask about doing postdoc to find a job in the industry in a foreign country. In general what is better to get an industry experience in the native country and remotely look for a job abroad or do a postdoc in the foreign country looking for a job at the same time? Desired position: biostatistisian in clinical trials.
I’m not sure one is necessarily better than the other, as they offer different advantages. Getting a postdoc in the foreign country is often an easier way to get a visa and get into the country to facilitate your search for an industry job, but it doesn’t help you get industry experience quickly. Getting an industry job in your native country gets you industry experience quickly, but doesn’t help with connections in the foreign country. However, it is possible to find a job in a foreign country even if you are abroad. My personal preference would be to get the industry job in my native country, and rely on my networking to look for a job in my target country. This would allow me to spend less time in academia and more building the career and skills that I really want.
So a recent PhD grad can apply for a postdoc position in academic institutions or federal/national labs, but what would be the job title or position to apply to if looking for a job in industry?
Good question, as most companies to not offer 'postdoc' positions. The answer to this is quite varied, as job descriptions very widely between companies and industries. The right way to learn about your target jobs are to do informational interviews with people who work there already. Find people who are a few years into their careers and ask them what they know. They can help you a lot with the types of jobs early career PhDs might do.
Should I do a Postdoc? If they pay you well-! Yes What kind of industry? there are Different types of industry and there are sectors where academia and industry go hand in hand ! what did you do in what industry are you? Engineers in a lot of cases they get pay an actual salary for doctoral degrees.
Thanks for sharing your ideas. However, I totally disagree with you while in some fields like AI things doing postdoc really helps you to be well-prepared for jobs like Data Scientist or Data Engineering. It comes from many experiences I have seen during my Postdoc and Industry life I have had since 2017.
I am a researcher based in India. I did my PhD in social (urban) geography at JNU, India. Is there possibility to get Industry or academic position based on that? Or is getting post doc the only way?
No, a postdoc is not the only way. You can absolutely get an industry position without it. The key is to realize that your strengths go far beyond just the specific knowledge that you obtained through earning your PhD. This video may help: ua-cam.com/video/_N9naJHzFgI/v-deo.html
I have a Ph.D. from a university that is not very high level and this issue will decrease my chance to apply for a Postdoc position. On the other hand, I want to work in the industry. These days I'm thinking about applying for the second PhD. I really want to know your opinion about this problem. Do you think should I try for a second Ph.D. or you suggest to insist on applying for a Postdoc position?
Hi Mostafa. I would think very carefully before starting a second PhD. Unless you want to work in a highly research-focused technical industry position, a second PhD will just make you look like you want an academic career.
One more reason to do a postdoc: Corona Job market in the industry is empty right now and before I fight with hundrets of applicants about the leftover jobs, i rather do a postdoc.
How can you do a postdoc when the labs are closed? When no money is coming in? When your advisor says she/he is running out of money? When classes are canceling? I think it is rather heartbreaking that professors are being forced to teach at the cost of their lives. But I guess what matters most is your convenience.
No, certainly not! There are many things you can do with either a bachelors or a masters degree. A PhD positions you to be a technical expert, but you have less of an understanding of how industry works than those who got an BS or MS.
@@TurningScienceVideo Thanks for your answer. I think my more specific question is: how fast and high can I climb to higher positions of leadership/management if I only have a masters?
@@carlosriera-ruiz1151 - In my experience, getting a leadership position depends little on your degree and much more on how quickly you can embrace making decisions quickly. PhDs tend to struggle with this, and it can actually keep them from rising to leadership positions. See this video for more on this: ua-cam.com/video/Wb5Bc7I2hzI/v-deo.html
I still believe that if you have spent some years doing a postdoc and then transition to industry, you will be still above fresh hired PhD holder who are starting a career in industry. This is because the postdoc has more experience doing research, solving problems and his mind is better trained.
Thanks for your input, Daniel. I certainly agree that a postdoc will have more experience with research and problem solving than a fresh PhD will. No argument there. But a scientist should consider whether a few years of additional research experience will bring more value in their industry job than getting a few years' earlier start learning the industry game.
I finished my PhD right before the COVID-19 pandemics started. I am still avoiding Postdoc positions (December 2020) because I would like to transition to the industry. And it's been extremely hard to get a job, no success so far, I guess now it's harder than ever. You can add migration challenges to that (like residence permit expiration, temporarily moving to a neighboring country). I know I just have to keep pushing. But staying without a job for almost a year in a foreign country starts affecting my mental health (and my hard-earned savings). It turned out that doing a PhD was not the best decision. It helped me to migrate but all this "achievement" is being erased now. I am not necessarily asking for advice but rather wanted to share my struggles. However, I will appreciate any advice as well.
I feel you, Ruslan. This year has given us so many challenges that we never anticipated. I'm sure it is particularly hard when you are in a foreign country. I'm hopeful that the positive vaccine results will start to bring us back to something more normal by mid-2021. Hang in there and stay strong.
Ruslan, I share similar fears. Have things changed for you yet?
Wise words. Thank for sharing. I am entering my postdoct but my heart already lies elsewhere. Just see it as a transition period at best.
I'm glad you found it helpful. You can still use the time to your benefit if you plan your target in industry and focus on developing industry habits while completing your postdoc. See my videos on the 5 Habits Successful PhDs in industry learn quickly: ua-cam.com/video/pJ0qvLKOQSw/v-deo.html
Great information! Thanks Sir
You're welcome. Glad it was helpful!
I can't thank you enough for this video. I'm binge-watching videos about people complaining about phd and post doc since I want to do a research job myself. I'm ok with the difficulties and the strugles but none of those people have worked in the industry like I want and I definitely needed your point of view. So, again, thank you sir, you maybe have saved me a lot of time loss.
You are very welcome. I’m so glad you found it helpful.
There is still a lot of pressure in academia to continue and do a postdoc, despite the fact that 95% of us PhDs will leave academia. This mindset needs to change.
Well, I got my first baby after PhD, and now on my first term of PostDoc, expecting my second in 4 months, with half a year postdoc contract after coming back from maternity leave. During this term of postdoc, I got to futher develop a model that I finished during my PhD. Meanwhile, I took the chance of the flexibility in the acedemic world to take care of my family side. I plan to switch to industry in the end, but I think for this individual case, I don't think it's such a bad idea doing this postdoc-- enjoying what I am doing but not so worried about publications or the no-ending career path climbing in the university; and enjoying family time, which I would expect to be difficult working in the company.
It sounds like you found a really good reason why it made sense for you to do a postdoc. Thank you for sharing your story and helping others who might find this option valuable.
There is another very very specific (but pretty common) exception, which is sort of a spin-off of your last point. This is for students coming from India (and a few other countries) to the US (specifically). Industry job almost certainly puts them in an extremely disadvantageous position, because of green-card backlogs, unless they are multinational executives. In an academic career they still have "some hope", and hence going for a postdoc makes sense for them (Or move to Canada!).
Thank you for bringing this up, Shaon. I can see how that is an important exception. I’d love to hear more thoughts from people on this point.
I have a master's degree in a traditional science field, namely analytical chemistry.
My PhD that I'n currently finishing up is in chemistry education research, which I pursued because I thought I wanted a job in a academia.
But after seeing all of the politics in academia and the chance for faster promotion in industry, I am now exclusively applying for industry positions.
I've advertised my education research experience as experience in creating lab procedures for undergraduates and being a fast learner of new techniques myself, which is true.
I've got some job interviews coming up, so I think I'll continue to position myself as someone with a growth mindset and a quick learner even if I lack some of the more technical skills of a traditional bench PhD chemist.
That sounds like a great plan. I hope your interviews go well!
And great to hear that you've gotten some interviews! The online application game can be quite a gamble. This video outlines my thoughts on that: ua-cam.com/video/7SP5iCEenwM/v-deo.html
And it's only gotten worse in the last few years.
The last point is so true and practical!!!
Thank you. I’m glad it resonated with you!
I have seen many jobs require completed postdoc experience. I know some postdoc friends who moved on to Industry job and they even told me many jobs need postdoc experience. Why is that? I am still a PhD student. I remember when I started my grad school, postdoc in the lab told me don't do a postdoc. When they got a job, they changed their tone and suggest me postdoc is important for these types of job. It looks like they have experienced the postdoc path and they want me to do the same thing.
Great question, Qing. Since I've posted this video, I've gotten some feedback that there are research jobs in the Pharma industry that are much more like academic research, and that for these jobs a postdoc can be helpful. Aside from that sector, I've still not heard that a postdoc helps.
Thanks for sharing this helpful video. I fit exactly into that exception category you mentioned at the end of this video. To give a little bit of background, I did my PhD in South Korea and currently doing a postdoc in US for 1.5 years. Could you give a little bit of advice on how to look for job opportunities and how to craft my time here to successfully get into industry? I know this question may be too general but I'sd appreciate any kind of advice! Thanks.
Spend more time to get the awareness of industry jobs. Find and contact the key persons in the company. Don't think about salary, if the work is suitable to you (in the industry).
Valuable! Congratulations!
Thank you!
That's like asking, should I start cooking beans if my goal is to bake a cake?
LOL! I love your analogy!
I want to add another point the Pandemic. Even academia is not secure during this time as government will cut funding that leads to few grants that support postdocs
7:02 - very true...
How about an industry postdoc (ie: Regeneron, Biogene, etc)?
That would certainly be more valuable, but I'm always skeptical of an 'industry postdoc.' Is this just a low-pay temporary position? Why not just give you a real job?
Thank you for your video, it’s really interesting!
You’re welcome! I’m glad you found it helpful.
When you reach to Everest what next to do after taking photo and registered your name.
Holy smokes. I forgot to get a B.S. Then a M.S. Then a PhD. Then a couple of Post Docs. Missed out on writing dozens of research papers.
But I did get turned down by the Lab Director at an IBM Research Lab for a job transfer, after a face to face meeting. He was an empty suit. I was not. His latest project failed. Mine did not. My PhD experience. They are not technically current. They alter data to fit their recommendations.
I wonder if such exception still apply going from developing countries to Europe in 2023
I believe it does still apply, but I'd love to hear from anyone with direct experience.
I just finished my bachelor's and starting a year-long post-bacc in a few months. Afterwards, I plan to start my PhD hopefully in pharmaceutics right after. Is it a good idea to take industry summer internships such as with Merck, Boehringer, or even gov't ones with CDC/NIH during the time frame of completing the PhD? Would this reflect better on me rather than a postdoc when aiming for an industry position afterwards? Thank you for sharing your insight on whether or not to do a postdoc!
I think that internships are an excellent idea for anyone going into industry, and they will be generally much better received than a postdoc. Bon courage for a productive and rewarding time working on your PhD!
I want to ask about doing postdoc to find a job in the industry in a foreign country. In general what is better to get an industry experience in the native country and remotely look for a job abroad or do a postdoc in the foreign country looking for a job at the same time? Desired position: biostatistisian in clinical trials.
I’m not sure one is necessarily better than the other, as they offer different advantages. Getting a postdoc in the foreign country is often an easier way to get a visa and get into the country to facilitate your search for an industry job, but it doesn’t help you get industry experience quickly. Getting an industry job in your native country gets you industry experience quickly, but doesn’t help with connections in the foreign country. However, it is possible to find a job in a foreign country even if you are abroad.
My personal preference would be to get the industry job in my native country, and rely on my networking to look for a job in my target country. This would allow me to spend less time in academia and more building the career and skills that I really want.
So a recent PhD grad can apply for a postdoc position in academic institutions or federal/national labs, but what would be the job title or position to apply to if looking for a job in industry?
Good question, as most companies to not offer 'postdoc' positions. The answer to this is quite varied, as job descriptions very widely between companies and industries. The right way to learn about your target jobs are to do informational interviews with people who work there already. Find people who are a few years into their careers and ask them what they know. They can help you a lot with the types of jobs early career PhDs might do.
Very useful video. Sir I am searching PDF in biomedical sciences in Texas plz share links to get. Tq sir
Should I do a Postdoc? If they pay you well-! Yes What kind of industry? there are Different types of industry and there are sectors where academia and industry go hand in hand ! what did you do in what industry are you? Engineers in a lot of cases they get pay an actual salary for doctoral degrees.
Thanks for sharing your ideas. However, I totally disagree with you while in some fields like AI things doing postdoc really helps you to be well-prepared for jobs like Data Scientist or Data Engineering. It comes from many experiences I have seen during my Postdoc and Industry life I have had since 2017.
Thanks for your input, Mohsen. I’d love to hear from anyone else with a similar perspective.
I am a researcher based in India. I did my PhD in social (urban) geography at JNU, India. Is there possibility to get Industry or academic position based on that? Or is getting post doc the only way?
No, a postdoc is not the only way. You can absolutely get an industry position without it. The key is to realize that your strengths go far beyond just the specific knowledge that you obtained through earning your PhD. This video may help: ua-cam.com/video/_N9naJHzFgI/v-deo.html
I have a Ph.D. from a university that is not very high level and this issue will decrease my chance to apply for a Postdoc position. On the other hand, I want to work in the industry. These days I'm thinking about applying for the second PhD. I really want to know your opinion about this problem. Do you think should I try for a second Ph.D. or you suggest to insist on applying for a Postdoc position?
Hi Mostafa. I would think very carefully before starting a second PhD. Unless you want to work in a highly research-focused technical industry position, a second PhD will just make you look like you want an academic career.
No, you should not!
One more reason to do a postdoc: Corona
Job market in the industry is empty right now and before I fight with hundrets of applicants about the leftover jobs, i rather do a postdoc.
How can you do a postdoc when the labs are closed? When no money is coming in? When your advisor says she/he is running out of money? When classes are canceling? I think it is rather heartbreaking that professors are being forced to teach at the cost of their lives. But I guess what matters most is your convenience.
Do you need a PhD to go to industry?
No, certainly not! There are many things you can do with either a bachelors or a masters degree. A PhD positions you to be a technical expert, but you have less of an understanding of how industry works than those who got an BS or MS.
@@TurningScienceVideo Thanks for your answer. I think my more specific question is: how fast and high can I climb to higher positions of leadership/management if I only have a masters?
@@carlosriera-ruiz1151 - In my experience, getting a leadership position depends little on your degree and much more on how quickly you can embrace making decisions quickly. PhDs tend to struggle with this, and it can actually keep them from rising to leadership positions. See this video for more on this: ua-cam.com/video/Wb5Bc7I2hzI/v-deo.html
I still believe that if you have spent some years doing a postdoc and then transition to industry, you will be still above fresh hired PhD holder who are starting a career in industry. This is because the postdoc has more experience doing research, solving problems and his mind is better trained.
Thanks for your input, Daniel. I certainly agree that a postdoc will have more experience with research and problem solving than a fresh PhD will. No argument there.
But a scientist should consider whether a few years of additional research experience will bring more value in their industry job than getting a few years' earlier start learning the industry game.