Left-hand to counter the Coriolis effect? Try shooting the opposite way, lol. Now I also heard that if you were in Australia and shot a left-hand twist rifle the bullet will go backwards.
If a RH twist makes the bullet spin clockwise as viewed from the shooter, then take Newtons Third Law "that for ever action there is a equal and opposite reaction", from when the bullet is shot till it achieves its rotational velocity it would seem to be exerting a force left. Once the bullet has stop its rotational acceleration the only force left would subside because only the air in from of bullet and in the barrel as well as the material from the propellant and any friction from the bore would be the only forces one the bullets rotation which because they would be tring to stop the spin right would be felt as a left force. What do people think of this?
I've thought this over lol. Like a helicopters blade applying an opposite force to cabin. However grab your index finger tightly and rotate, it causes your hand to want to rotate the same direction. However,if the rifle is now moving backwards from recoil, maybe it would rotate to the left...maybe if the bullet is completely engaged to the lans of a rh twist , then it would create a left torque ,(with resistance to the front end of it,but if it's skidding across them and rotating fast, maybe it would do the opposite ??? I don't think their is enough resistance on the front of the bullet.
Frank, sorry that I will not be on the same page with you about the twist rate because I am sure when the bullet is going down the barrel, it is forced (the bullet) to turn clockwise, in the same time the reaction of the bullet is to turn left the barrel, that reaction makes the rifle to turn counterclockwise with a clockwise twist. Think like that: Let’s say you have the possibility to hold the bullet straight and without rotating when is going down the barrel, then what will happend is, the barrel will rotate to the left (counterclockwise).Is like a long screw in a long nut and try to imagine to hold the screw and leave the nut free, what will happend??? If you hold the screw in the nut down, the nut will unscrew in the clockwise direction but if you push the screw down the nut, this will turn left. And with the progressive twist I think depends on the speed and the start of the twist like so: The highest the speed you must start with the smallest twist and gradually tight the twist but you need also longer barrel to take advantage of that (the shortest the barrel you got to tight the twist too soon and acts like a brake besides the friction and you loose speed). I think in the “perfect rifle” you’ll have even the trigger in line with the trajectory of the bullet and just like a button that you’ll need to push it towards to compensate the recoil...and many more, I know that sounds maybe odd but good things where born from many ideas until “perfection”. Good luck !!!
I believe this theory.Always have.Im ordering me one in 6mm,one in 6.5 and one in 30 cal.Im right handed and my shots tend to go right.I believe you Frank.Thanks for breaking it down.
Gain twist also reduce the forces to the bullet. It makes sense to apply the most rifling at the end of the barrel where the pressure is the lowest thus making it possible to shoot longer bullets with same or higher speed.
Gain rifling is to reduce the amount for materiel needed at the breech by reducing pressures, makes for lighter barrels. The 460 revolver uses gain twist for that reason.
Gain twists are not new and date to the 1830s or so maybe before that. It was found that they shot better, possibly to to the assurance there was no reverse gain at the muzzle (many rifling guides at the time were made of wood. but they also were used, initially anyway, with bullets with very short driving bands. Cloth patched “Picket bullets” for example that had little more bearing surface thena the round ball and were never much more than 2 calibers log if that. They would used twists with 12 inches of gain more or less. 48” to 36” or ever 30”. High rates of gain will produce “skid marks” on bullets with ling bearing surfaces. So it was found that gains over and inch or two were counter productive due to bullet deformation.
Now figure they are using a computer controlled CNC Machine and not a typical rifling machine, it changed everything there is no skid marks, no pressure, etc, I have 8 of these now, so 8 barrels later, and hundreds from Bartlein being used in Service Rifle and Benchrest today the model has changed... it's not new, but he methods are new, science has changed in 150 years
Have you tried shooting "lefty"? If you have to "squint" and close one eye to "aim" a rifle and can't easily keep both eyes open, you're probably left eye dominant and are shooting with the 'wrong hand" anyway. I'm right-handed, I shoot left-handed and always have because I was taught to shoot by a lefty uncle at a very young age. He taught me to shoot pool, as well. Being a diesel mechanic I'm very "ambidextrous" and I can do things like grab bolts or nuts with both hands and start them/turn them simultaneously because I'm kind of "cross-wired" and mechanics often have to work entirely "blind" and use just our hands as our eyes. Oddly enough when I got "serious" about shooting handguns several years ago, I reverted to being a "righty". I CAN shoot long guns right-handed but its a major struggle compared to the very natural feeling I have shooting left-handed because my left eye is dominant. Obviously handguns are much further from the eyes and the dominant eye takes over in that situation and I can shoot handguns left-handed much better than I shoot long guns right-handed. My THEORY is that people who really struggle to "learn to shoot" and particularly those who have "problems" with rifles and "optics" and HAVE to close their "other eye" to do so are shooting "wrong-handed" and AGAINST their eye dominance. Your DOMINANT EYE is your "stronger" eye and any optometrist will tell you that. Eyes are NEVER "equal" in strength and how WELL you see depends on how how well your DOMINANT eye sees. But as for "barrel twist" being an "advantage", that's complete bullshit. I've shot piles of guns and have shot long guns and handguns with both hands and own 20+ guns chambered in a dozen or so cartridges from .22LR to .50 BMG and 9mm to .460 Rowland and have never "felt" a gun "twist" in my hand(s) when firing whether from a "benchrest" or offhand in any shooting position. Once the bullet is IN THE BARREL it's being twisted BY the barrel. Not the other way around. I posted above about "Newton's laws" and kind of "trolled" the comment section talking about how a bullet rotating one direction will "twist" the barrel the OPPOSITE direction IF "Newton's laws" are actually correct and further "trolled" by mentioning that Newton's laws are CONTINUALLY cited by "experts" of various degrees when it comes to "physics". So far "Lowlight" has taken the bait. We'll see how quickly his faithful followers show up to back him up.
I would think a right hand twist barrel would rotate counter clockwise in an equal/opposite reaction. If that is the case a RH twist barrel will push the cheek piece into the shooter's cheek.
+Jason McKinney Nope, the other way around because it's happening at the muzzle so it is opposite at the shooter, we have a ton of video to show this is the case, and has been the case as reported since the early 1900s
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'd just like a dialogue on this. I refer to many SH videos and they've improved my shooting a lot. Seeing some slow motion video would be awesome too. And maybe some written opinions by a physicist specializing in mechanical interactions. I like data. As much as possible. I guess th at why I have 3 spiral notebooks on my 308 alone.
Can you post the link to the thread? I doubt that ballistic calculators have the calculations to do a left handed gain twist... do they? Will they? I would really like to try getting a 6.5 CM barrel like the one described for my AX338MC. I'd certainly like to try it out.
@@jasonmpd2946 Which axis of twist is Frank talking about. A,B, or C? Yaw, pitch or roll? If you are talking about bullet reaction torque or roll (C) and torque at the muzzle is opposite at the butt, you know what your gun looks like now!
Reed C if you are referring to water draining from a tub you would be correct but not in the case of a bullet the direction you are shooting does matter! When shooting east or west you'll have no horizontal deviation only vertical but firing north or south is where you will encounter horizontal deviation
I like all the theories expressed. as for gain twist reduce skidding it would have to start @ 0 progress to final twist. other wise you'll still get skid. I'd like to see full lab testing on all of it. good vid. I'd like to see identical rh/lh rifles tested with calculator results an target results.
Look at the date on the video, we have moved down the road a bit on this, Hornady tested them, more and more are being used, it's no longer theory, just not as widespread. Look up the Service Rifle Shooters who swear by GT Barrels, we do have a site, we talk about this stuff all the time. It works. We tested all aspects fo this and continue to do so
From what I’ve read and seen, a 2:1 ratio works best. Ie., if you want a 1:7 twist, then start with 1:14 and finish with 1:7. I have a .224 Valkyrie barrel comin that I’d GT. 1:13 finishing at 1:6.5.
Funny how this was the rage 8-10 years ago in Precision Shooting magazine with the benchrest crowd. Guess is it really hard to invent something new, other than selling Cheerios as donut seeds.
That's because you're not smart enough to know that a RH barrel can't be "wrong" in all shooting directions/situations regardless of hemisphere and "correolis effect" PERIOD can only be "real" and have an effect shooting "perpendicular to the "rotation" of the Earth.
Look at Arms Tech USR Polygonal Gain Twist gas trap barrel. Then there is squeeze bore from Colt Canada. How about a left hand twist polygonal squeeze bore gain twist barrel in 223 CLE for an AR?
Easy to prove, set up a rifle with right hand twist and the ratios are the same and set two exact rifles with measuring meters on every part of the rifle to see how much force is pushing towards the rear, to the left, to the right and also forwards and then we will see if its really true if left hand twist ratios will change anything on how the rifle moves and having a bench test done with a machine pulling the trigger is the way to go to prove it, plus i like the comment below that this was all the rage 12 years ago about going to left hand twist, in fact i believe the F class in England have a 1 in 12 twist ratio and right hand twists as well ? Yet some people i know have a 1 in 8 twist for long range F class shooting ?
Wouldn't it be the opposite, wouldn't a left-hand twist cause a clockwise torsion of the rifle, since you're forcing a bullet to spin counterclockwise?
I watched my friends new custom rifle ,300 Weatherly Mag torqueso hard to the right and jump.It shot great groups at 100 yards.It torqued more than I've ever seen.
Pro tip: to make a left hand twist barrel, just pull your right hand twist barrel, flip it 180, turn and thread a new barrel tennon at the muzzle, and re insert.
What's the difference between drifting to the left or right. Doesn't it drift the same amount, if not why? The direction you are shooting changes drop and coriolis.
Howdy, I am just getting into shooting and want to know what Left-Hand progressive twist numbers you would use for a 6.5 cm finished at 26''. I'm looking to shoot ~140 gr projectiles. Thank you for your time!!
I'm curious, why do you say that gain twist doesn't increase bullet velocity, but in the Tikka Tac A1 video, you say that despite losing two inches, you were still getting almost 150 fps more with a left hand gain twist?
Velocity is not twist dependent, the way the barrel is made is, Tikka barrels are notoriously slow, Bartlein Barrels, on the other hand, are known to be faster. Custom Barrel vs Hammer Forged Factory Barrel. Replace any factory barrel with a custom one and you'll see a increase
Moving to Australia (southern hemisphere) and taking my right hand twist barrel. I refuse to talk about as serious a topic as "skidding". Use "Gain" on your underwear. Got it!
The comments on skidding are just ignorant, they have no idea the amount of gain or how it works, but it does work, I now have 5 Gain twists and they are outstanding
If you spin the bullet to the "left" the "equal and opposite reaction" of the barrel will twist it and the rifle to the "right". And as long as the torque is on/in the centerline of the bore and the recoil doesn't occur until the bullet is LEAVING the barrel which is always the case, the barrel will "twist" on its bore axis. And again, recoil occurs as the bullet is LEAVING the barrel. Once it clears the muzzle, the barrel is no longer "controlling" the bullet. And if you want to go with the "machines turn to the right" rationale for a RH barrel twist, you should know that nearly all internal combustion engines have crankshafts that rotate to the LEFT when you're looking at the "business end" of the crankshaft where the flywheel is mounted to the crankshaft. They rotate to the right only when viewed "head-on" looking at the front of the crankshaft. Ever wonder why with a "one-legged" rear differential with no limited-slip or locker a vehicle "launched" hard from a standing start tends to spin the RIGHT REAR tire? Probably not but I can assure you that is the case and its because the engine is "torquing" the chassis/vehicle to the "left" which "unloads" the RH rear tire and transfers weight and traction to the LH rear. The main and very OBVIOUS reason for RH THREADS is that with MOST people being RIGHT-HANDED and having their THUMB OF THEIR "STRONG HAND" ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THAT HAND, ITS "NATURAL" AND MUCH EASIER TO SPIN SCREWS/BOLTS TO THE RIGHT SINCE THE THUMB IS DOING MOST OF THE SPINNING. If Isaac Newton's "laws" are CORRECT - and they are CONSTANTLY cited by "gun experts" and other amateur and professional "physicists" when it comes to "ballistics" - a RH twist ALSO tends to "tighten" barrels in receivers when those barrels and receivers have RH threads and the barrel turns to the "shooter's left" as he/she is behind the gun. Right-hand twist turning the bullet toward the right tries to spin the barrel to the left to assist in keeping it tight as parts heat/cool and expand/contract and are subjected to HUGE "lateral" loads trying to push the barrel forward and the bolt rearward. Ever seen what happens when a barrel comes loose in a receiver or even a choke tube comes loose in a shotgun barrel? Things break. Catastrophically. "Pope" came up with "LH twist is superior" for the same reason others have come up with "theories" like "gain-twist is superior". To sell his product by creating a "difference" between it and the "mainstream". That's called "marketing" when its done "well" and "correctly" and its called BULLSHIT when someone doesn't buy it OR the product "featuring" it because they have that rare capacity for "independent thought" combined with some practical experience with other "machinery". The only REAL practical benefit to LH twist is that it lets barrel/barrel blank manufacturers wear out "cutters" completely instead of just the "edge" that is cutting being pulled through a RH twist barrel. Beyond that, there are nothing but "cons" that it offers and that one BIG one where the barrel is trying to "unscrew" out of the receiver when the rifle is fired. Not nearly as big of a deal with a "traditional" receiver/barrel/recoil lug setup but I sure as hell wouldn't want my barrel LH twist in a "quick-change" receiver/barrel rifle where the barrels are screwed in "hand-tight" and then "locked in place" with nothing but a small screw or two just "clamping" the barrel in some sort of "collet" set-up or acting as a "set screw" and screwed in with the "base" of the screw shoved "tight" against some part of the barrel/thread OD.
I've been a diesel mechanic for 25 years, chief. I've been "tinkering" with things like TORQUE and FASTENERS and the "physics" of machinery and tools much longer than you've been an online "gun expert". So believe what you want but you're wrong. When something is done a certain way by the majority of manufacturers for centuries, there's typically a damned good reason for that. And making the barrel LH twist is simply going to "cant" the rifle to the LEFT instead of the right. And since you're relying on "cheek weld" to PREVENT that and your eyeballs are in your head where your cheeks are located, sounds kind of foolish to want a rifle "twisting" to the LEFT and "slapping" you in the face, doesn't it? I'll bet you believe "coriolis effect" really causes water to "swirl" around a drain in ONE DIRECTION in the "northern hemisphere" and the OPPOSITE DIRECTION in the "southern hemisphere" too, right? Want me to provide proof THAT "conventional wisdom" is complete bullshit by posting a video of me "making" water "swirl backward" going down a drain? What else do you believe simply because a "scientist" or other "expert" says its "scientific fact"? And as a supposed U.S. military veteran surely you know that the most "accurate" and "precise" tank main guns on Earth are found in U.S. M1 Abrams and German Leopard 2 main battle tanks and those guns are SMOOTHBORE with no "twist" at all. So my question for a "gun expert" like yourself is why we have RIFLED BARRELS and not RIFLED AMMUNITION like those guns/shells are designed? "Spin drift" and "coriolis" and "windage" are "infinitely variable" and supposed "scientific fact" but yet no one seems to be able to "quantify" them. Why is that?
Why did you have to have a "guy" feel it and how is that "evidence" of your claims? Does this "guy" have a name? And what about left-handed guns/shooters? They should be RH twist to be "right" if your claims are "fact". Right?
DEEREMEYER1 your wrong I have 4 LH GT barrels you never Shot one you have no clue your the idiot who thinks mil scopes adjust per mil vs per .1. The bullet is not doing what you think it is to a 15LBS Rifle. Try reading a book or two on the subject. Even the service rifle guys moved to GT barrels
Nice video but this was supposed to be a secret;)-. This is something I've been considering for my next barrels. A friend of mine in New Zealand uses nothing but Bartlein Gain twists...... His rifle and loads hold the world records for longest shots at around 4kms......and every little bit matters at those extreme distances.
The ONE time I've seen an "accuracy guarantee" from Accuracy International I'm almost POSITIVE it was "1.5 MOA". Haven't been able to find it since but I wonder if that's in the northern hemisphere or southern hemisphere.
Thank god I'am left handed just like Colt Python move the cylinder to the left great for lefties using a speed loader but very awkward for right-handers.
The conventional thinking that a LH twist for a RH shooter. Exactly when and where were all those "correct" rifles made? And why do the "gears" and "machines" turn "right"? Because of the "RH rule" of alternating current maybe? And who did all that "smart" thinking when it came to which direction things "should" turn? Engineers? And who besides "experts" today who know everything there is to know about the "right" and "wrong" way to build guns thinks that anything but human beings "recognizes" a difference between "right hand" and "left hand"? And where are you in "space" that Earth turns toward the "right"? Everywhere. From above and below and from the side and in EITHER HEMISPHERE the Earth "turns right", the sun RISES in the EAST and SETS in the WEST. The only problem is that here ON Earth, the Earth turns to the LEFT. The SUN moves to the "right" because the EARTH is turning to the LEFT regardless of hemisphere IF you're "oriented" on the Earth in such a way the its rotation would "compound" a "spin" to the right. Ever wonder why none of these supposed phenomena that have so much effect on bullets were pretty much unknown and unrecognized and unseen and therefore "non-existent" before "engineers" and "science" and "theory" replaced "inventors" and "math" and "observation"? And why they still don't exist anybody's mind who has any significant experience shooting, a wide range of shooting interests, modesty and common sense enough to realize that "control" of the natural environment and its "effects" are impossible and perfection is unattainable? I'll tell you up front its NOT because nobody shot "long range" or "extreme long range" before and you "ELR" shooters are breaking "new ground". Anything observable at "long range" is LESS scientifically reliable and less "statistically significant" because of that whole "noise" thing. "Noise" BEING anything you can't "correct" for because you can't identify and quantify and "allow" for it. You increase ACCURACY and PRECISION by reducing ERROR and by reducing NOISE you increase the "resolution" and "reliability" of your "results". Neither is an "effect" something that HAS to be "quantified". It either IS or it isn't. Period. And unless you can establish that it absolutely IS then you "assume" it ISN'T. Having a "correction" for "coriolis effect" be a "constant" in a "ballistic solver" when how MUCH "coriolis effect" HAS an effect, which is obviously going to depend on not only "flight time" but bullet MASS and "BC" and LENGTH and DENSITY and all those things that are going to VARY bullet to bullet because they ALSO affect the bullet's "aerodynamics" (coriolis "effect" has to be the result of a FORCE and any and all forces are "influenced" by "opposing" forces and how FAR a bullet "spin-drifts" will depend on ATMOSPHERIC CONDITIONS LIKE WIND AND HUMIDITY just like any other "force" on the bullet like "wind resistance" itself) aren't going to BE "constant" for DIFFERENT BULLETS. You'd THINK that would occur to "ballisticians" but then again they don't really think about anything but how to sell their PRODUCT. Which is "ballistic data" or "ballistic solvers" or "ballistic projectiles" or the means of "launching" them. And "science"? How many "experts" and other "true believers" in "science" REALLY think for themselves these days? Peer review? Its "review" because its not "replicate". Its SUPPOSED TO BE and that's the point. Let somebody else take a stab at "proving" your theories. But then again true scientific process is never ABOUT "proving" a theory. Who "peer reviews" Applied Ballistics' "results"? It's about working to DISPROVE a theory so you can scratch it off the "possible cause" list and THINK up a NEW THEORY to explain why/how what you OBSERVE as a "fact" actually happens. When you've exhausted all theories and have conducted "scientific" experiments to test them and have been repeatedly proved wrong, you either give up and stop trying to explain the inexplicable and accept that some things are like "perfection" beyond human intelligence OR at some point a THEORY becomes a HYPOTHESIS when experiments fail to "disprove" it, that "hypothesis" becomes "fact" and hangs there in "space" until some other "scientist" with a "new" and DIFFERENT theory comes along who CHALLENGES THEIR OWN THEORY by conducting experiments and if they FAIL to disprove their OWN "theory" it ALSO becomes a "hypothesis" and "fact" and that's OKAY because NOTHING happens for only ONE reason in a "complex system" and two "facts" can occupy the same space at the same time. And when those "facts" can BOTH "contribute" to an observed phenomena CALLED "spin drift", they're not "compounding" each other. COMPOUNDING means MULTIPLYING THE EFFECTS OF THE BOTH CONTRIBUTORS. Its MULTIPLICATION. If you have a "jerk" to the right from a RIGHT-HANDED SHOOTER that doesn't "compound" other contributing factors. Nor does a "jerk" in the opposite direction from a left-handed shooter "offset" one or more of them. When the GOAL is to hit the target "dead-center", two wrongs don't make a right simply because a "jerk" to the left "offsets "spin drift" to the right. Not even in a "perfect" world or "scientific" environment. And since its literally impossible to make any two objects "perfectly identical" except by ACCIDENT if you want to get really "scientific" and take things to an "extreme" as far as measurements and dimensions, its impossible to quantify the "data" taken from an "experiment" involving those two objects. Not that the POINT of an "experiment" is to EVER gather "data" when an experiment is conducted by impartial OBSERVERS or that anybody "biased" and "involved" in the OUTCOME of the experiments should be anywhere near it. But the point is that non only can we not make any two objects "perfect" and "perfectly" alike, we obviously can't make any two objects "perfectly" DIFFERENT for "comparison" of a LH twist barrel vs. a RH twist barrel. You wannabe "scientists" who spend lots of time using and playing with and talking about "machinery" but little if any time manufacturing, servicing, repairing, assembling, disassembling and "dissecting" it and a LOT of it have some really BIASED and PREJUDICED and UNSCIENTIFIC BELIEFS AND THEORIES about "phenomena" that you WANT to blame on "nature" because you don't WANT to be "fallible" like the REST OF US. Especially not when your "expert" status is your "meal ticket" and your education, background, experience and KNOWLEDGE (vs. INFORMATION - there's a difference and "knowledge" comes from "experimenting" and "learning" vs. "observing" what some "expert" with a fancy degree or resume' or title claims is "fact") aren't sufficient for you to just EXPLAIN the hows and whys and whens and wheres of a "phenomena" and you're literally flying blind. If you HAD more experience with MACHINERY and especially the "dirty work" that goes with it that's done by "blue collar workers" in dirty clothes and bad weather and on late nights and early mornings and weekends at the "shop" or in the "field" and you were as KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT and CONCERNED WITH accuracy and precision as you claim to be and no doubt believe you are, you'd have set of "SAAMI" specs at hand when you're doing your "loading" and "building" of "precision" ammunition and rifles. You'd demand to know the SPECIFICATIONS of your "precision" hardware and not just "dimensions". Much less what are referred to by "experts" in "how-to" gunsmithing and handloading videos as "tolerances" that are in fact dimensions. A SPECIFICATION is .451" as the correct DIMENSION - in this case the DIAMETER - of a "projectile" for a .45-caliber U.S. "SAAMI" rifled barrel. Pistol or rifle doesn't matter. If the manufacturer uses a "range" of "plus or minus .0003", that is a TOLERANCE for ERROR or "deviation" from the specification. "Within half a thou" is not a specification OR a dimension OR a tolerance. If the current dimension is .454" and the TOLERANCE is +/- .0003" producing a projectile "to specs" that's "in tolerance" and is the "right" dimension involves machining off at LEAST .0027" but NO MORE THAN .0033". That gets you WITHIN TOLERANCE but only truly 'to spec" if you machine off .003". How is that all relevant to "spin drift" and "coriolis effect"? Its relevant because if the "expert" you happen to be working with or "learning" from speaks the "lingo" but doesn't "speak the language" of "accuracy" and "precision" and "good enough" or "not important" or "don't worry about it at X range but be really worried it at XXX range" are part of the "discussion" or "lesson" and therefore "accuracy" and "precision" aren't part of the expert's "vocabulary" regardless of "lingo", knowing the DIFFERENCE between "specifications" and "dimensions" and "tolerances" and DEMANDING to SEE the "math" and buying products from companies that DO "speak the language" and PRODUCE their products to a "standard" and one that's PUBLISHED and you CAN put there on the bench when you're "building" or "loading" precision hardware and knowing that any "expert" and/or 'product" that isn't AT LEAST WITHIN THE SAME TOLERANCES AS YOUR HARDWARE IS MADE TO IS GOING TO INTRODUCE "NOISE" AND SURE AS HELL ISN'T WORTH PAYING FOR MUCH LESS USING FOR "FREE". Just like spending money on "working toward" some supposed state of "perfection" that supposedly used to exist "back in the old days" just because some "expert" who doesn't realize that if you make LH twist "standard" then suddenly you lose the ability to "compare" a RH vs LH barrels and RH vs LH shooters and THAT just makes it so much EASIER to blame EVERYTHING ON THE "SHOOTER" WHEN CONVENIENT AND THE "BARREL" WHEN ITS NOT.
Wow! Made total sense to me, but I cannot admit, nor deny any validity as I'm visiting from another dimension where our laws of physics are nothing like yours. Great read.
+Joe Dirt they have, but very limited, Bartlein is doing it more and more, but not to the left, Mark Chanlynn does left hand but not gain twist. The benchrest and service rifle crowd is using Gain Twist but not left hand, so it is there but not together
@@TheSonsOfSimon I believe he meant to write: I have been in long range shooting for quite a while now, but do not know what the acronym "WTF" means that you are talking about. But I found it funny because for many months I kept asking myself who the hell is Ben? I even Ctrl+F and only came up with one (1) Ben. Deeremeyer1 knows what he is talking about, we just do not understand his understanding, and some do not understand any of his understanding, which is why they write with anger and beligerancy. The world is no longer flat, and man has not returned to the moon because there were too many mice eating the moon made out of swiss cheese. FJB Out!
Great job breaking it down and explaining everything so it was understandable and made sense.
Tip: double tying your shoe laces before you shoot eliminates the need for the left hand twist barrel.
Left-hand to counter the Coriolis effect? Try shooting the opposite way, lol. Now I also heard that if you were in Australia and shot a left-hand twist rifle the bullet will go backwards.
Only if you just tie one shoe.Or it cance l s it out.lol
If a RH twist makes the bullet spin clockwise as viewed from the shooter, then take Newtons Third Law "that for ever action there is a equal and opposite reaction", from when the bullet is shot till it achieves its rotational velocity it would seem to be exerting a force left. Once the bullet has stop its rotational acceleration the only force left would subside because only the air in from of bullet and in the barrel as well as the material from the propellant and any friction from the bore would be the only forces one the bullets rotation which because they would be tring to stop the spin right would be felt as a left force. What do people think of this?
Agree
+1 , RH twist barrel will induce a left force felt by the shooter and viciversa... In the air is different story.
I've thought this over lol. Like a helicopters blade applying an opposite force to cabin. However grab your index finger tightly and rotate, it causes your hand to want to rotate the same direction. However,if the rifle is now moving backwards from recoil, maybe it would rotate to the left...maybe if the bullet is completely engaged to the lans of a rh twist , then it would create a left torque ,(with resistance to the front end of it,but if it's skidding across them and rotating fast, maybe it would do the opposite ??? I don't think their is enough resistance on the front of the bullet.
Although when you compare the mass of the gun to the mass of the bullet, it seems to me the rotational force felt in the hand would be negligible.
And... Just as recoil doesn't directly affect accuracy neither should this rotational recoil.
Your right about one thing, every new invention or theory has already been done. Very valuable information.
Frank, sorry that I will not be on the same page with you about the twist rate because I am sure when the bullet is going down the barrel, it is forced (the bullet) to turn clockwise, in the same time the reaction of the bullet is to turn left the barrel, that reaction makes the rifle to turn counterclockwise with a clockwise twist.
Think like that:
Let’s say you have the possibility to hold the bullet straight and without rotating when is going down the barrel, then what will happend is, the barrel will rotate to the left (counterclockwise).Is like a long screw in a long nut and try to imagine to hold the screw and leave the nut free, what will happend???
If you hold the screw in the nut down, the nut will unscrew in the clockwise direction but if you push the screw down the nut, this will turn left.
And with the progressive twist I think depends on the speed and the start of the twist like so:
The highest the speed you must start with the smallest
twist and gradually tight the twist but you need also longer barrel to take advantage of that (the shortest the barrel you got to tight the twist too soon and acts like a brake besides the friction and you loose speed).
I think in the “perfect rifle” you’ll have even the trigger in line with the trajectory of the bullet and just like a button that you’ll need to push it towards to compensate the recoil...and many more, I know that sounds maybe odd but good things where born from many ideas until “perfection”.
Good luck !!!
I believe this theory.Always have.Im ordering me one in 6mm,one in 6.5 and one in 30 cal.Im right handed and my shots tend to go right.I believe you Frank.Thanks for breaking it down.
Gain twist also reduce the forces to the bullet. It makes sense to apply the most rifling at the end of the barrel where the pressure is the lowest thus making it possible to shoot longer bullets with same or higher speed.
Gain rifling is to reduce the amount for materiel needed at the breech by reducing pressures, makes for lighter barrels. The 460 revolver uses gain twist for that reason.
That like the FX smooth twist on there air rifles. Let's the round speed up after at the beginning then add the spin at the end.
Damn this is easy to understand in terms of what the barrel actually is but confusing when it comes down to the ballistics
Very interesting, I would definitely like to test this. Thanks for the video
Gain twists are not new and date to the 1830s or so maybe before that. It was found that they shot better, possibly to to the assurance there was no reverse gain at the muzzle (many rifling guides at the time were made of wood. but they also were used, initially anyway, with bullets with very short driving bands. Cloth patched “Picket bullets” for example that had little more bearing surface thena the round ball and were never much more than 2 calibers log if that. They would used twists with 12 inches of gain more or less. 48” to 36” or ever 30”. High rates of gain will produce “skid marks” on bullets with ling bearing surfaces. So it was found that gains over and inch or two were counter productive due to bullet deformation.
Now figure they are using a computer controlled CNC Machine and not a typical rifling machine, it changed everything there is no skid marks, no pressure, etc, I have 8 of these now, so 8 barrels later, and hundreds from Bartlein being used in Service Rifle and Benchrest today the model has changed... it's not new, but he methods are new, science has changed in 150 years
so since I shoot left handed, my right twist barrel is what I need to keep.
I was going to ask the same question as I'm a lefty too?
+Scott M. yes keep your righty LOL
lucky son of a gun...
Have you tried shooting "lefty"? If you have to "squint" and close one eye to "aim" a rifle and can't easily keep both eyes open, you're probably left eye dominant and are shooting with the 'wrong hand" anyway. I'm right-handed, I shoot left-handed and always have because I was taught to shoot by a lefty uncle at a very young age. He taught me to shoot pool, as well. Being a diesel mechanic I'm very "ambidextrous" and I can do things like grab bolts or nuts with both hands and start them/turn them simultaneously because I'm kind of "cross-wired" and mechanics often have to work entirely "blind" and use just our hands as our eyes.
Oddly enough when I got "serious" about shooting handguns several years ago, I reverted to being a "righty". I CAN shoot long guns right-handed but its a major struggle compared to the very natural feeling I have shooting left-handed because my left eye is dominant. Obviously handguns are much further from the eyes and the dominant eye takes over in that situation and I can shoot handguns left-handed much better than I shoot long guns right-handed.
My THEORY is that people who really struggle to "learn to shoot" and particularly those who have "problems" with rifles and "optics" and HAVE to close their "other eye" to do so are shooting "wrong-handed" and AGAINST their eye dominance. Your DOMINANT EYE is your "stronger" eye and any optometrist will tell you that. Eyes are NEVER "equal" in strength and how WELL you see depends on how how well your DOMINANT eye sees.
But as for "barrel twist" being an "advantage", that's complete bullshit. I've shot piles of guns and have shot long guns and handguns with both hands and own 20+ guns chambered in a dozen or so cartridges from .22LR to .50 BMG and 9mm to .460 Rowland and have never "felt" a gun "twist" in my hand(s) when firing whether from a "benchrest" or offhand in any shooting position. Once the bullet is IN THE BARREL it's being twisted BY the barrel.
Not the other way around. I posted above about "Newton's laws" and kind of "trolled" the comment section talking about how a bullet rotating one direction will "twist" the barrel the OPPOSITE direction IF "Newton's laws" are actually correct and further "trolled" by mentioning that Newton's laws are CONTINUALLY cited by "experts" of various degrees when it comes to "physics".
So far "Lowlight" has taken the bait. We'll see how quickly his faithful followers show up to back him up.
I would think a right hand twist barrel would rotate counter clockwise in an equal/opposite reaction. If that is the case a RH twist barrel will push the cheek piece into the shooter's cheek.
+Jason McKinney Nope, the other way around because it's happening at the muzzle so it is opposite at the shooter, we have a ton of video to show this is the case, and has been the case as reported since the early 1900s
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'd just like a dialogue on this. I refer to many SH videos and they've improved my shooting a lot.
Seeing some slow motion video would be awesome too. And maybe some written opinions by a physicist specializing in mechanical interactions.
I like data. As much as possible. I guess th at why I have 3 spiral notebooks on my 308 alone.
+Jason McKinney We had monster debates on Sniper's Hide in the forum with tons of slow motion video posted, it was pages and pages worth ...
Can you post the link to the thread? I doubt that ballistic calculators have the calculations to do a left handed gain twist... do they? Will they? I would really like to try getting a 6.5 CM barrel like the one described for my AX338MC. I'd certainly like to try it out.
@@jasonmpd2946 Which axis of twist is Frank talking about. A,B, or C? Yaw, pitch or roll? If you are talking about bullet reaction torque or roll (C) and torque at the muzzle is opposite at the butt, you know what your gun looks like now!
If the right hand twist is torquing the bullet to the right, wouldn't the rifle then torque to the left?
yes , that's right
Also coriolis depends on direction you're bullet is traveling! So for left hand twist to cancel out coriolis you'd have to only shoot south.
Reed C if you are referring to water draining from a tub you would be correct but not in the case of a bullet the direction you are shooting does matter! When shooting east or west you'll have no horizontal deviation only vertical but firing north or south is where you will encounter horizontal deviation
I like all the theories expressed. as for gain twist reduce skidding it would have to start @ 0 progress to final twist. other wise you'll still get skid. I'd like to see full lab testing on all of it. good vid. I'd like to see identical rh/lh rifles tested with calculator results an target results.
Look at the date on the video, we have moved down the road a bit on this, Hornady tested them, more and more are being used, it's no longer theory, just not as widespread. Look up the Service Rifle Shooters who swear by GT Barrels, we do have a site, we talk about this stuff all the time. It works. We tested all aspects fo this and continue to do so
From what I’ve read and seen, a 2:1 ratio works best. Ie., if you want a 1:7 twist, then start with 1:14 and finish with 1:7. I have a .224 Valkyrie barrel comin that I’d GT. 1:13 finishing at 1:6.5.
I have a scope that adjusts to the left
Funny how this was the rage 8-10 years ago in Precision Shooting magazine with the benchrest crowd. Guess is it really hard to invent something new, other than selling Cheerios as donut seeds.
+Robert Teller they are still using it and winning with it, and the service rifle crowd is using it to
How is a "service rifle" still "legal" for "service rifle competition" with a "gain-twist barrel"?
Does a single twist difference equate to much in solving "skid" ? I could see if you started at 0 twist and ended at 1/7
Well very interesting comments about right hand twist))) What about over stabilized projectile?
Frank just made me hate every right hand twist barrel ever made.
That's because you're not smart enough to know that a RH barrel can't be "wrong" in all shooting directions/situations regardless of hemisphere and "correolis effect" PERIOD can only be "real" and have an effect shooting "perpendicular to the "rotation" of the Earth.
It won't really make the bullet shift to left if it was shot a little right already.
Look at Arms Tech USR Polygonal Gain Twist gas trap barrel. Then there is squeeze bore from Colt Canada. How about a left hand twist polygonal squeeze bore gain twist barrel in 223 CLE for an AR?
Left hand shooters should only shoot in the southern hemisphere?
If the barrel has right-hand twist, it will try turning left when fired, not to the right...! Action, reaction...
Easy to prove, set up a rifle with right hand twist and the ratios are the same and set two exact rifles with measuring meters on every part of the rifle to see how much force is pushing towards the rear, to the left, to the right and also forwards and then we will see if its really true if left hand twist ratios will change anything on how the rifle moves and having a bench test done with a machine pulling the trigger is the way to go to prove it, plus i like the comment below that this was all the rage 12 years ago about going to left hand twist, in fact i believe the F class in England have a 1 in 12 twist ratio and right hand twists as well ? Yet some people i know have a 1 in 8 twist for long range F class shooting ?
Wouldn't it be the opposite, wouldn't a left-hand twist cause a clockwise torsion of the rifle, since you're forcing a bullet to spin counterclockwise?
I watched my friends new custom rifle ,300 Weatherly Mag torqueso hard to the right and jump.It shot great groups at 100 yards.It torqued more than I've ever seen.
Pro tip: to make a left hand twist barrel, just pull your right hand twist barrel, flip it 180, turn and thread a new barrel tennon at the muzzle, and re insert.
If you take a right handed barrel, spin it 180, you still have a right handed barrel. That's why a nut can screw onto a bolt from either end.
@@dylancrow7919 It was a joke my friend
How bout a gain twist in a 36inch MTU structured barrel
Nice job Frank!
What's the difference between drifting to the left or right. Doesn't it drift the same amount, if not why? The direction you are shooting changes drop and coriolis.
There is more than one, if your SD goes left and CE right they cancel
Howdy, I am just getting into shooting and want to know what Left-Hand progressive twist numbers you would use for a 6.5 cm finished at 26''. I'm looking to shoot ~140 gr projectiles. Thank you for your time!!
Anything from 8.25 to 7.5 or thereabout, a 3/4 gain works very well, so that would be 8 - 7.25 or 8.25 to 7.5 etc
I'm curious, why do you say that gain twist doesn't increase bullet velocity, but in the Tikka Tac A1 video, you say that despite losing two inches, you were still getting almost 150 fps more with a left hand gain twist?
Velocity is not twist dependent, the way the barrel is made is, Tikka barrels are notoriously slow, Bartlein Barrels, on the other hand, are known to be faster. Custom Barrel vs Hammer Forged Factory Barrel. Replace any factory barrel with a custom one and you'll see a increase
@@SHLowlight Thanks for the quick reply and for clearing up that misunderstanding.
is he doing this just so we need to have it?
Moving to Australia (southern hemisphere) and taking my right hand twist barrel. I refuse to talk about as serious a topic as "skidding". Use "Gain" on your underwear. Got it!
The comments on skidding are just ignorant, they have no idea the amount of gain or how it works, but it does work, I now have 5 Gain twists and they are outstanding
The service left me with a very well developed sense of both humor and irony. Guess someone else does your laundry.
Can use machine SSG 243 to bartlein barrel 308
If you spin the bullet to the "left" the "equal and opposite reaction" of the barrel will twist it and the rifle to the "right". And as long as the torque is on/in the centerline of the bore and the recoil doesn't occur until the bullet is LEAVING the barrel which is always the case, the barrel will "twist" on its bore axis. And again, recoil occurs as the bullet is LEAVING the barrel. Once it clears the muzzle, the barrel is no longer "controlling" the bullet. And if you want to go with the "machines turn to the right" rationale for a RH barrel twist, you should know that nearly all internal combustion engines have crankshafts that rotate to the LEFT when you're looking at the "business end" of the crankshaft where the flywheel is mounted to the crankshaft.
They rotate to the right only when viewed "head-on" looking at the front of the crankshaft. Ever wonder why with a "one-legged" rear differential with no limited-slip or locker a vehicle "launched" hard from a standing start tends to spin the RIGHT REAR tire? Probably not but I can assure you that is the case and its because the engine is "torquing" the chassis/vehicle to the "left" which "unloads" the RH rear tire and transfers weight and traction to the LH rear. The main and very OBVIOUS reason for RH THREADS is that with MOST people being RIGHT-HANDED and having their THUMB OF THEIR "STRONG HAND" ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THAT HAND, ITS "NATURAL" AND MUCH EASIER TO SPIN SCREWS/BOLTS TO THE RIGHT SINCE THE THUMB IS DOING MOST OF THE SPINNING.
If Isaac Newton's "laws" are CORRECT - and they are CONSTANTLY cited by "gun experts" and other amateur and professional "physicists" when it comes to "ballistics" - a RH twist ALSO tends to "tighten" barrels in receivers when those barrels and receivers have RH threads and the barrel turns to the "shooter's left" as he/she is behind the gun. Right-hand twist turning the bullet toward the right tries to spin the barrel to the left to assist in keeping it tight as parts heat/cool and expand/contract and are subjected to HUGE "lateral" loads trying to push the barrel forward and the bolt rearward. Ever seen what happens when a barrel comes loose in a receiver or even a choke tube comes loose in a shotgun barrel? Things break. Catastrophically.
"Pope" came up with "LH twist is superior" for the same reason others have come up with "theories" like "gain-twist is superior". To sell his product by creating a "difference" between it and the "mainstream". That's called "marketing" when its done "well" and "correctly" and its called BULLSHIT when someone doesn't buy it OR the product "featuring" it because they have that rare capacity for "independent thought" combined with some practical experience with other "machinery".
The only REAL practical benefit to LH twist is that it lets barrel/barrel blank manufacturers wear out "cutters" completely instead of just the "edge" that is cutting being pulled through a RH twist barrel. Beyond that, there are nothing but "cons" that it offers and that one BIG one where the barrel is trying to "unscrew" out of the receiver when the rifle is fired. Not nearly as big of a deal with a "traditional" receiver/barrel/recoil lug setup but I sure as hell wouldn't want my barrel LH twist in a "quick-change" receiver/barrel rifle where the barrels are screwed in "hand-tight" and then "locked in place" with nothing but a small screw or two just "clamping" the barrel in some sort of "collet" set-up or acting as a "set screw" and screwed in with the "base" of the screw shoved "tight" against some part of the barrel/thread OD.
DEEREMEYER1 nope
DEEREMEYER1 try shooting one I had a guy "feel" it and wondered out loud you write a lot but all meaningless with no experience
I've been a diesel mechanic for 25 years, chief. I've been "tinkering" with things like TORQUE and FASTENERS and the "physics" of machinery and tools much longer than you've been an online "gun expert". So believe what you want but you're wrong. When something is done a certain way by the majority of manufacturers for centuries, there's typically a damned good reason for that. And making the barrel LH twist is simply going to "cant" the rifle to the LEFT instead of the right. And since you're relying on "cheek weld" to PREVENT that and your eyeballs are in your head where your cheeks are located, sounds kind of foolish to want a rifle "twisting" to the LEFT and "slapping" you in the face, doesn't it?
I'll bet you believe "coriolis effect" really causes water to "swirl" around a drain in ONE DIRECTION in the "northern hemisphere" and the OPPOSITE DIRECTION in the "southern hemisphere" too, right? Want me to provide proof THAT "conventional wisdom" is complete bullshit by posting a video of me "making" water "swirl backward" going down a drain?
What else do you believe simply because a "scientist" or other "expert" says its "scientific fact"? And as a supposed U.S. military veteran surely you know that the most "accurate" and "precise" tank main guns on Earth are found in U.S. M1 Abrams and German Leopard 2 main battle tanks and those guns are SMOOTHBORE with no "twist" at all. So my question for a "gun expert" like yourself is why we have RIFLED BARRELS and not RIFLED AMMUNITION like those guns/shells are designed?
"Spin drift" and "coriolis" and "windage" are "infinitely variable" and supposed "scientific fact" but yet no one seems to be able to "quantify" them. Why is that?
Why did you have to have a "guy" feel it and how is that "evidence" of your claims? Does this "guy" have a name? And what about left-handed guns/shooters? They should be RH twist to be "right" if your claims are "fact". Right?
DEEREMEYER1 your wrong I have 4 LH GT barrels you never Shot one you have no clue your the idiot who thinks mil scopes adjust per mil vs per .1. The bullet is not doing what you think it is to a 15LBS Rifle. Try reading a book or two on the subject. Even the service rifle guys moved to GT barrels
Nice video but this was supposed to be a secret;)-. This is something I've been considering for my next barrels. A friend of mine in New Zealand uses nothing but Bartlein Gain twists...... His rifle and loads hold the world records for longest shots at around 4kms......and every little bit matters at those extreme distances.
And where would one find those "world records" if he or she were inclined to look for them?
DEEREMEYER1 just watch markandsam afterwork
They be in Australia not here in NZ ... ;)
The ONE time I've seen an "accuracy guarantee" from Accuracy International I'm almost POSITIVE it was "1.5 MOA". Haven't been able to find it since but I wonder if that's in the northern hemisphere or southern hemisphere.
Great video thank you
That’s a huge target!!!! Have you done any accuracy shooting with it?
Thank god I'am left handed just like Colt Python move the cylinder to the left great for lefties using a speed loader but very awkward for right-handers.
He hasen't shot a rifle that has recoil enough to mater.
The conventional thinking that a LH twist for a RH shooter. Exactly when and where were all those "correct" rifles made? And why do the "gears" and "machines" turn "right"? Because of the "RH rule" of alternating current maybe? And who did all that "smart" thinking when it came to which direction things "should" turn? Engineers? And who besides "experts" today who know everything there is to know about the "right" and "wrong" way to build guns thinks that anything but human beings "recognizes" a difference between "right hand" and "left hand"?
And where are you in "space" that Earth turns toward the "right"? Everywhere. From above and below and from the side and in EITHER HEMISPHERE the Earth "turns right", the sun RISES in the EAST and SETS in the WEST. The only problem is that here ON Earth, the Earth turns to the LEFT. The SUN moves to the "right" because the EARTH is turning to the LEFT regardless of hemisphere IF you're "oriented" on the Earth in such a way the its rotation would "compound" a "spin" to the right.
Ever wonder why none of these supposed phenomena that have so much effect on bullets were pretty much unknown and unrecognized and unseen and therefore "non-existent" before "engineers" and "science" and "theory" replaced "inventors" and "math" and "observation"? And why they still don't exist anybody's mind who has any significant experience shooting, a wide range of shooting interests, modesty and common sense enough to realize that "control" of the natural environment and its "effects" are impossible and perfection is unattainable?
I'll tell you up front its NOT because nobody shot "long range" or "extreme long range" before and you "ELR" shooters are breaking "new ground". Anything observable at "long range" is LESS scientifically reliable and less "statistically significant" because of that whole "noise" thing. "Noise" BEING anything you can't "correct" for because you can't identify and quantify and "allow" for it. You increase ACCURACY and PRECISION by reducing ERROR and by reducing NOISE you increase the "resolution" and "reliability" of your "results".
Neither is an "effect" something that HAS to be "quantified". It either IS or it isn't. Period. And unless you can establish that it absolutely IS then you "assume" it ISN'T. Having a "correction" for "coriolis effect" be a "constant" in a "ballistic solver" when how MUCH "coriolis effect" HAS an effect, which is obviously going to depend on not only "flight time" but bullet MASS and "BC" and LENGTH and DENSITY and all those things that are going to VARY bullet to bullet because they ALSO affect the bullet's "aerodynamics" (coriolis "effect" has to be the result of a FORCE and any and all forces are "influenced" by "opposing" forces and how FAR a bullet "spin-drifts" will depend on ATMOSPHERIC CONDITIONS LIKE WIND AND HUMIDITY just like any other "force" on the bullet like "wind resistance" itself) aren't going to BE "constant" for DIFFERENT BULLETS.
You'd THINK that would occur to "ballisticians" but then again they don't really think about anything but how to sell their PRODUCT. Which is "ballistic data" or "ballistic solvers" or "ballistic projectiles" or the means of "launching" them. And "science"? How many "experts" and other "true believers" in "science" REALLY think for themselves these days? Peer review? Its "review" because its not "replicate". Its SUPPOSED TO BE and that's the point. Let somebody else take a stab at "proving" your theories. But then again true scientific process is never ABOUT "proving" a theory. Who "peer reviews" Applied Ballistics' "results"?
It's about working to DISPROVE a theory so you can scratch it off the "possible cause" list and THINK up a NEW THEORY to explain why/how what you OBSERVE as a "fact" actually happens. When you've exhausted all theories and have conducted "scientific" experiments to test them and have been repeatedly proved wrong, you either give up and stop trying to explain the inexplicable and accept that some things are like "perfection" beyond human intelligence OR at some point a THEORY becomes a HYPOTHESIS when experiments fail to "disprove" it, that "hypothesis" becomes "fact" and hangs there in "space" until some other "scientist" with a "new" and DIFFERENT theory comes along who CHALLENGES THEIR OWN THEORY by conducting experiments and if they FAIL to disprove their OWN "theory" it ALSO becomes a "hypothesis" and "fact" and that's OKAY because NOTHING happens for only ONE reason in a "complex system" and two "facts" can occupy the same space at the same time.
And when those "facts" can BOTH "contribute" to an observed phenomena CALLED "spin drift", they're not "compounding" each other. COMPOUNDING means MULTIPLYING THE EFFECTS OF THE BOTH CONTRIBUTORS. Its MULTIPLICATION. If you have a "jerk" to the right from a RIGHT-HANDED SHOOTER that doesn't "compound" other contributing factors. Nor does a "jerk" in the opposite direction from a left-handed shooter "offset" one or more of them. When the GOAL is to hit the target "dead-center", two wrongs don't make a right simply because a "jerk" to the left "offsets "spin drift" to the right. Not even in a "perfect" world or "scientific" environment.
And since its literally impossible to make any two objects "perfectly identical" except by ACCIDENT if you want to get really "scientific" and take things to an "extreme" as far as measurements and dimensions, its impossible to quantify the "data" taken from an "experiment" involving those two objects. Not that the POINT of an "experiment" is to EVER gather "data" when an experiment is conducted by impartial OBSERVERS or that anybody "biased" and "involved" in the OUTCOME of the experiments should be anywhere near it. But the point is that non only can we not make any two objects "perfect" and "perfectly" alike, we obviously can't make any two objects "perfectly" DIFFERENT for "comparison" of a LH twist barrel vs. a RH twist barrel.
You wannabe "scientists" who spend lots of time using and playing with and talking about "machinery" but little if any time manufacturing, servicing, repairing, assembling, disassembling and "dissecting" it and a LOT of it have some really BIASED and PREJUDICED and UNSCIENTIFIC BELIEFS AND THEORIES about "phenomena" that you WANT to blame on "nature" because you don't WANT to be "fallible" like the REST OF US. Especially not when your "expert" status is your "meal ticket" and your education, background, experience and KNOWLEDGE (vs. INFORMATION - there's a difference and "knowledge" comes from "experimenting" and "learning" vs. "observing" what some "expert" with a fancy degree or resume' or title claims is "fact") aren't sufficient for you to just EXPLAIN the hows and whys and whens and wheres of a "phenomena" and you're literally flying blind.
If you HAD more experience with MACHINERY and especially the "dirty work" that goes with it that's done by "blue collar workers" in dirty clothes and bad weather and on late nights and early mornings and weekends at the "shop" or in the "field" and you were as KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT and CONCERNED WITH accuracy and precision as you claim to be and no doubt believe you are, you'd have set of "SAAMI" specs at hand when you're doing your "loading" and "building" of "precision" ammunition and rifles. You'd demand to know the SPECIFICATIONS of your "precision" hardware and not just "dimensions". Much less what are referred to by "experts" in "how-to" gunsmithing and handloading videos as "tolerances" that are in fact dimensions.
A SPECIFICATION is .451" as the correct DIMENSION - in this case the DIAMETER - of a "projectile" for a .45-caliber U.S. "SAAMI" rifled barrel. Pistol or rifle doesn't matter. If the manufacturer uses a "range" of "plus or minus .0003", that is a TOLERANCE for ERROR or "deviation" from the specification. "Within half a thou" is not a specification OR a dimension OR a tolerance. If the current dimension is .454" and the TOLERANCE is +/- .0003" producing a projectile "to specs" that's "in tolerance" and is the "right" dimension involves machining off at LEAST .0027" but NO MORE THAN .0033". That gets you WITHIN TOLERANCE but only truly 'to spec" if you machine off .003".
How is that all relevant to "spin drift" and "coriolis effect"? Its relevant because if the "expert" you happen to be working with or "learning" from speaks the "lingo" but doesn't "speak the language" of "accuracy" and "precision" and "good enough" or "not important" or "don't worry about it at X range but be really worried it at XXX range" are part of the "discussion" or "lesson" and therefore "accuracy" and "precision" aren't part of the expert's "vocabulary" regardless of "lingo", knowing the DIFFERENCE between "specifications" and "dimensions" and "tolerances" and DEMANDING to SEE the "math" and buying products from companies that DO "speak the language" and PRODUCE their products to a "standard" and one that's PUBLISHED and you CAN put there on the bench when you're "building" or "loading" precision hardware and knowing that any "expert" and/or 'product" that isn't AT LEAST WITHIN THE SAME TOLERANCES AS YOUR HARDWARE IS MADE TO IS GOING TO INTRODUCE "NOISE" AND SURE AS HELL ISN'T WORTH PAYING FOR MUCH LESS USING FOR "FREE".
Just like spending money on "working toward" some supposed state of "perfection" that supposedly used to exist "back in the old days" just because some "expert" who doesn't realize that if you make LH twist "standard" then suddenly you lose the ability to "compare" a RH vs LH barrels and RH vs LH shooters and THAT just makes it so much EASIER to blame EVERYTHING ON THE "SHOOTER" WHEN CONVENIENT AND THE "BARREL" WHEN ITS NOT.
You write a ton of bullshit, look up POPE RIfles, the NRA museum has them, read about Pope as a gunsmith, the rest of your BS is just words
Deeremeyer1 who hurt you?
Show us on the doll where the engineer touched you. And stop smoking meth.
Wow!
Made total sense to me, but I cannot admit, nor deny any validity as I'm visiting from another dimension where our laws of physics are nothing like yours.
Great read.
Ben in long range for a while now. Don't know WTF your talking about
Apparently you havn't or this would make easy sense to you. Go back to your airsoft forum pls!!!!
Who is Ben?
+Joe Dirt they have, but very limited, Bartlein is doing it more and more, but not to the left, Mark Chanlynn does left hand but not gain twist. The benchrest and service rifle crowd is using Gain Twist but not left hand, so it is there but not together
@@TheSonsOfSimon I believe he meant to write: I have been in long range shooting for quite a while now, but do not know what the acronym "WTF" means that you are talking about.
But I found it funny because for many months I kept asking myself who the hell is Ben?
I even Ctrl+F and only came up with one (1) Ben.
Deeremeyer1 knows what he is talking about, we just do not understand his understanding, and some do not understand any of his understanding, which is why they write with anger and beligerancy.
The world is no longer flat, and man has not returned to the moon because there were too many mice eating the moon made out of swiss cheese.
FJB Out!