A Closer Look At The National Hill Climb Winning Bike - Are Rim Brakes DEAD!?
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- Опубліковано 21 лип 2024
- A DISC BRAKE road bike just won National Hill Climb - Is this the end for rim brake road bikes? Disc brakes have been slowly gaining ground in every area of road cycling... EXCEPT hill climbing. But we caught up with current British Hill climb champion Andrew Feather and he showed us around his new Lab71 Cannondale Supersix Evo that he's built up for this year's 2023 hill climb championship in the Lake District.
Like many new road bikes the Cannondale is disc-only: do those incremental gains from the new tech outweigh the extra weight of the discs?
Let us know your thoughts on rim brakes and disc brakes in the comments section below!
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⚫️ In this video
0:00 Introduction
0:58 The frame
1:44 Schmolke finishing kit
2:47 3D printed computer mount
3:26 Power meter
4:08 Groupset
4:45 Wheels
6:24 Front end position
7:05 Cutting the bars off?
7:24 Shifter position
7:52 Chain
8:57 DISC BRAKES?!
11:35 Are rim brakes dead?
12:47 Outro
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Rim for road, disc for dirt. Sticking to rim brakes, external cables and mechanical shifting on my road bikes. Affordable, lightweight, and easy to maintain.
🙏!!!!
Exactly
until they're no longer supported on higher spec bikes..only entry level. depends on what you lust for I suppose
I'll stick to disc for my Hase Pino tandem and LvH Bullitt cargo bike thanks - and they rarely leave the road! 😂
Internal cables need less maintenance than external. Especially with full housing.
*I run mechanical SRAM converted to 12sp because I don't like how ANY hydraulic hoods feel. My cables and housing definitely hold up better now than before
Imagine if disc brakes had arrived first and rim brakes for road bikes had just been developed. They’d have been hyped as the next must have due to ease of service, quicker wheel changes in races and weight savings…
Cool cycilng story bro.
Of course, the grass always looks greener on the other side - exactly what the industry counts on. For decades they've told us lighter is better, now they tell us weight doesn't matter, and in 10 years tops they'll go back to the "lighter is better" discourse.
… yeah and worse braking, nicely done🤝
@@Nick-rz6vq worse, but "by an insignificant margin" that "doesn't really matter in the real world, except maybe on the steepest of slopes" and is "definitely outweighed by the benefits", as they say nowadays when justifying the extra weight of "modern" bikes.
@@11robotics understandable but me livin in switzerland would never go back to rim.
Have you experienced the feeling of breaking your carbon rim caused by overheating? or braking down a climb in rain with these?
Sounds like a sponsored rider!
So... Andrew takes off the bottle-cage screws because "every gram helps". But then his disc brake bike is 400 to 500g heavier than the previous rim equivalent and he's not worried. You can tell his effort to look excited because his disc brake bike is just half a kilo heavier in a sport that is all about power to weight ratio
This years hillclimb is on the Struggle which has a much lower average gradient to last years course. There’s a chance the aero advantage of this new bike will play a greater roll than the relatively small change in overall system weight penalty.
This lol, 95% of serious cyclists (including the pros) just don't understand physics at all. It's funny really.
@nikgracanin6180 most fast people understand that they're faster with the most aerodynamic bike in most scenarios. That means disc brake bikes. Especially now with the UCI tube shape allowances that nobody has designed a rim brake bike around.
@@rob-c.And yet he's running 44 or 46cm bars
@@veganpotterthevegan Horseshit, as aerodynamics don't play any significant role below 20 kph. And climbing speeds at 10% gradients or more are lower, even if you are Andrew, or Pogačar for that matter. Even more so as your position on a climb is naturally more upright, so even those few watts that can be saved come mostly down to your position on the bike itself.
Do you really need brakes going up hill?
What goes up must come down
Yes! What if it 🌧? You need that modulation when you are going 5 mph up hill lol
@@azk_182 you can come down in an automobile, after the climb
@@savagepro9060 when you are training, you go up and down on repeats. Descending is the highest level of awareness, psychological and emotional control, trust in your skills and the bike, experience and intuition of what the wind gusts will do.
@@theworkethic "Descending is the highest level of awareness, psychological and emotional control, trust in your skills and the bike"
500 gram difference!!! Lol!!! I will take the cheaper lighter easier to maintain rim brake bike lol
The lightest disc brake builds are still 1 kg heavier than the lightest rim brake builds
Or just take a dump…
@@dominicbritta 1kg dump?
@@SecwetGwiwer Yeah, 500g tops.
@@dominicbrittwill still be 1kg heavier after taking a dump in both cases.
@@dominicbritt on a rim brake bike ;)
#twofer
On my rides, at worst I just need to scrub off a bit of speed then rail it round the corners, I'm not bothered about disc brakes and it's a shame rim brakes have been ditched by manufacturers. Lighter, barely any maintenance involved, rim brakes work brilliantly for me.
Never done less maintenance since switching to disc brakes. I probably spend less than half the time maintaining them from rim cleaning alone
Loved them to!!!
The rims on rim brakes are to heavy..
Totally agree👍 it’s like people are so sucked in by marketing crap that they will buy a new bike to stop 1.5 metres closer what they don’t tell you is they are heavy sound pants look pants and require more maintenance
Perhaps because his sponsor has no other bikes??? 😊
To be fair, these recent lightweight frames are back in the weight realms of light climbing bikes but I would be interested how much more these top-grade carbon frames cost you compared to a very common 2000s Cannondale build as guys like Andrew Feather are still riding. Did you need a Lab71 15k bike that you can get below the UCI limit, considering inflation?
I'm amazed they're not more expensive. Sold some +$12k Cannondales before 2010.
@@veganpotterthevegan No doubt you could throw that much money out the window but did you have to get a 6,x kg bike? Let's say a 2000s SuperSix Evo plus components. You don't need the fanciest deep-dish carbon wheels or comfort, just a light bike still with brakes on to ride up hills fast...
@@DoNuT_1985 yes I did. I've had multiple SuperSix's, a Madone and a Cervelo R3SL at 6kg.
@@veganpotterthevegan I see, a 15k lightweight bike is (inflation-corrected) pretty much the same as it was back then, so just wishing back the good days they never were? Interesting.
@DoNuT_1985 yup, it's not a thing and you get more for your money now. I've sold WIRED SRM cranks for $5k. It's insane😵💫 Now $6k bikes come with power meters
I was riding my bike recently and my rim brakes were rubbing. So I reached down while I was riding and pulled them to one side while I was riding. I haven t had to adjust them since then.
Cool story.
@@CoolStoryBroCyclingYou should be proud of yourself, you seem happy
rim for racers, disc for dentists
😂
Needs to clearly declare any sponsorships. If he's self-funded then great, if not then this is worth very little.
Seems to ride Canyon when on GCN videos so this may be self funded.
@@michaelnee3692 Here I was thinking that the Brits have very clear anti ad laws especially related to television and online streaming?
@@michaelnee3692 Latest Natz vid shows cannondale logo on kit.
Not dead. Hopefully consumers will get to decide. Rim brakes not dead. Inner tubes not dead. Threaded BB not dead. 23mm tires not dead.
I’m thrilled with my new Emonda with 30 mm tubeless Pirelli P-Zero’s and disc brakes, not to mention the 51 mm deep Bontrager RSL wheels with 31 mm external width.
Yes …still on rim brakes..inner tubes..threaded bb..but I did change 23mm to 28mm which I like
Discs are annoying all you hear when walloping it uphill is shing shing shing with the discs rubbing pointless. My gravel bike has discs and it sort of makes sense big wide tyre's lots of mud but for road no chance I'd take rim brakes every time.
So he's got a frame for aero reasons, but at the same time relatively wide bars, and upright levers making his frontal area very not aero, which will give him more drag than the benefit from the frameset. Makes sense 👍
Like F1, there are compromises for the package as a whole..
He didnt pay for that bike,thats for shure
Yes he did - in blood, sweat and tears!
Hence why he has had to ride it over the lighter rim brake version he likely would prefer to ride - at least in a single effort steep climb.
Its a 20.000+ euro bike, still almost 6.0kg. A similar or lighter rim setup, for hillclimb especially, cost 5X-10X less money to build.
Just a friendly tip -- put the bike in between the presenter and the camera, so the presenters aren't constantly looking away from the camera. And the viewers can see the bike better.
For every top tier advocate for discs there are hundreds of people that want a hassle free, easy to maintain bike with rim brakes and external cable routing, with 105 or Tiagra on a simple round tube metal frame.
Cool story.
Explains why rim brake bike sales are through the roof, then. Except that they aren't???
Funny.. I just built two SRAM Red electronic shifting bikes - with Rim Brakes... lol...
Rim brakes will come back when the bike companies tell we NEED them. Just like they tell we NEED discs, we NEED a gravel bike and it's components, etc, etc. Give it 5 - 10 years.
Yeah nah rim brakes are dead, disc brakes are without argument just plain better
They won't, but feel free to live in Lalaland.
Rim brakes are like vhs tapes.
@@luiscolon921 more like vinyl really.
@@luiscolon921 How many rider switch to disc are getting faster? No disc brake rider talks about their disc bike are damn good ride...all they talk is the brakes!
Crazy how Mr Feather mentions his new bike is more aero when he spends the whole of the course standing out of the saddle and isnt remotely aero 🤔
Right? He's NEVER not climbing.
he could totally dispense with those brakes!
You dont need brakes to go uphill, pure marketing.
I’ve still got rim brake bikes which where expensive , I’m not ready to make to switch for a while. I can’t see why it really matters though.
I ended up switching to discs after wearing through a set of carbon rims on rim brakes. Didn’t fancy buying another set of wheels (which will wear out again) when I could put that money into a new bike and wheels which won’t wear out. I admit I spent more money all in, but it was a great excuse/opportunity to buy a new bike, and I got a frame (Supersix pre-dropped seat stays) I’d always wanted.
@@rob-c. Skill issue
@@rob-c. are you 300lbs and bombig down alpine mountains daily?
Imagine if his wheel sponsor didn't make a tubular rim!; he'd be in an 800+ gram plus deficit with increased rotational drag too!
But let’s remove the cage screws to save weight. What a pile of bs.
Sorry dude, you sold out.
No doubts the weights margin are getting smaller, but you didn't mention the price margin is getting higher too. I can build a 7.3KG bike on rim with 3K USD. And the ride quality on rim confirmed better.
Those proportions in the Lab 71 frameset. Wow looks proper lightweight while still keeping the aero shapes. But not going overboard with its doing the full 3 inch banner look in the downtube or pencil thin top tube.
I'm surprised he went for the Dura Ace brake rotors 😅 not only because the Ultegra ones are lighter but mostly because Galfer makes affordable 140mm rotors that are a lot lighter (and made of steel). Also, there's crankset + spider-based power meter options that are not only lighter but also cheaper than this Rotor solution
What crankset + spider PM would you recommend? :)
@@cornelius883an Incolor Skypivot is a pretty good choice. You can get them with the new XCadey powermeter (on Panda Podium). Alternatives in the same price range are available from Elilee or Cybrei. Alternatively, Easton also makes some very light carbon cranks but they are way more expensive, and of course there's always THM but that's just ridiculous
Yeah, he sold out to sponsor dictatorship nonsense
Love me some feather, but we all know this was a sponsor decision. Lightest disc is still heavier. And aero is not relevant for hill climb.
Hype moves product. Especially in a world of easily malleable and unsophisticated consumers.
and dentists , who have given up NHS work , grrrrrr
Read f*ckwits
RIM brakes DEAD?
Uhmmm ...
Fed up with disk brakes (noises, freezes, and one day with a total fail of braking system) just changed my “modern” road bike (width di2, disk brakes, internal wiring, wireless dfly, ..... etc) for a DEAD SWorks tarmac SL6 with rim brakes.
Every climb is a personal record, faster rides, etc and I am feeling very happy with my bike.
No more comments needed.
We might have to ask "Rides of Japan" (Slayer of Grams 😆) to do a review of Andrew's bike 👍
Nonsense, Microshift has just released a cable operated groupset, TriRig have released new calipers and levers and multiple companies have released new rim brake wheelsets. Many companies are still offering full rim brake build.
Disc brakes have been around for ten years and yet the rim brake market is still very resilient, primarily because people still love their simplicity.
Despite the Cycling press repeatedly writing this clickbait headline, rim brakes just won’t die!
Yeah they are trying to sell unaffordable bikes..
Microshift released a cable operated *gravel* groupset, it not meant for rim brakes, it's meant for cable actuated disc brakes.
@@StevenZephyc it is marketed as such but it’s also perfect for many rim brake builds.
Shimnao new groupsets are available for sale at 12 speed, rim brake di2
It's not resilient. It's definitely dying. I use tririg gear. They're a very small company and a total anomaly in the market
Well, it is nice for the pro's, but sorry guys jumping on a Bandwagon doesn't it make it a horse that needs to be put down. Rim brakes are still a viable option for at least the next many years. I just bought a 2022 Basso Venta, and it is an Endurance bike that works, and I can work on it without all the hassle of integrated handlebars and disc brake tech. This type of build using older or newer frames is still better than buying a new built. I control the quality of components and the skill to do any maintenance.
Wolf Tooth make 12 speed narrow wide chainrings for Shimano, as 12 speed has been around for mtb for quite a while now. I believe mtb/road is supposed to be cross compatible
How was this posted on the 13th, 2 weeks before the event even took place? UA-cam glitch?
0:54 ”i can” 😂😂😂
My 2018 Trek emonda alr5 stop's on a dime and is super light too
And you didn't weigh it? Right. No need to embarrass the corporate puppeteers that pull your strings. And poor Feather has to look enthusiastic at a bike that is heavier than a 10 year old SuperSix.
More hill climbing content please 😍
Rim brakes are around 500g/wheel lighter than hydraulic brakes. As the sport is called hillclimbing, you would, of course, feel the weight difference while climbing.
I like rim caliper brakes because of the lower price and costs, easier maintenance, reliability, and lower weight.
I've converted a 26'MTB into a 700c touring bike with caliper brakes, even with full camping 🏕 gear they brake great downhill!
There's a world of difference between what gearheads do and what millions of ordinary riders do.
I tour. Long distances, weeks at a time without going anywhere near (if I can help it) centres of population. On the road fixing rim brakes is easy, fixing a busted disc is a real pain. Out of spares, out of fluid, nearest bike shop often over 200km away - I'll stick to my rims, thank you.
I'm very much pro disc brakes, but are they really needed for a Hillclimb?
Yes. You have to come back down again, now, not using bar tape, for 50gr... that's just has stupid as it comes
@@bernardo9202 So you can't come back down with rim brakes?
yes you can, that's not what I'm talking about. You have a 7kg bike, it isn't 50 gr that will make you magically quick, just go for comfort and the bar tape.@@ridley8340
@@ridley8340I think that's why the industry went disc 😂
how does adding weight and drag with discs ever help going up hill?
There isn't more drag with disc brakes.
@@DaveCM side winds
@@DaveCMrotors are design to catch air for cooling, use that info as you wish
@@savagepro9060they lost the most drag in a headwind and the least with sidwinds.
@@oreocarlton3343 hahahahaaaa, a deliberate wind-catcher
I don't sacrifice weight for disc brakes.. it's a different matter if the bike weighs 6 kg with disc brakes 😁
I'd love my bike to be heavier. Yes that's what I really want now😂
So aero!!!
What???
Rim brakes all the way.
You guys steal him from GCN?😅
I will never ride a road bike with disc brakes because they look bloody horrible.
I’m surprised I’ve managed to survive all these years racing and riding in the mountains with rim brakes.
No one ever discussed braking but now marketing is so intense everyone has been brainwashed to think you can’t ride a bike without disc brakes.
Why put a video out about the death of rim brakes when the rider in question is sponsored to ride this bike?
a 42 bar is wide? I ride 44-45s.
why this dude keep saying stiffer? dry carbon isnt making up for skinnier tubes, and less wall thickness. and as far as bb's go press fits are stiffer because the bearings are in the frame. these new frames are mostly threaded now, no?
What do you even need brakes for if you are riding up hill?
racing regs
I think it just comes down to sponsorship rather than choice 😊it been a well covered topic with ex pros preferring rim brake setup but when under contract they have no choice 😢 although the good news is a lot of brands are now reversing back to rim brake options so you will see the sheep move in another direction 😂
Not happening in the Netherlands where bicycles are used for everyday transport by everyone.
That’s a bloody lovely bike Andrew!! 👍
Coz there are no manufacturer makes new RIM bike wheel and frame anymore, using modern weight saving technologies.
Its the market problem, not a problem of rim brake as a form factor itself.
Cos there is absolutely need , unless the UCI suddenly changes weight limits
Usually I like your videos, but here I can't help but feel like a big piece of journalist integrity is missing. What are the sponsors here ? What ties does this guy have with the industry ? Did he pay for his frame, and / or his wheels ?
It's just impossible to take the video seriously without disclosing that. Especially not when it goes against every principle of that particular discipline.
Rim brakes alive and well on my bikes
this bike is so sick!!!
thanks for sharing~
Durianrider furious right now
Haha, Luddite central over there..
It's all about time spent and development of bike tech. That stopped with rim brakes in 2019/20, so of course over time disc brake bikes will get better and better. Carbon lay-up, frame stiffness, aero features etc etc. We'd have advanced quite a bit and have all that if we just stuck with rim brakes too, but industry decided to phase rim brakes out, and remove people's choice if they want new.
It isnt about tech or researxh and development. It is all about market power. You sponsor a team in the TDF you have more market power than people who dont. A companies marketing budget is ten times more important than a R&D budget.
Just look at the latest recall. They didnt recall parts made more than 14 years ago
I wonder how many times he used those disc brakes on his climb, zero I reckon.
Bro is sponsored. Nuff said
Nearly all of the top guys were on rim brakes to be fair. Feather has the advantage of being able to splash the cash due to sponsorship. His bike would have been worth a bloody bomb.
No bar tape to save weight but uses disc brakes! 😆 Obviously paid to ride that heap.
Don’t forgot to remove the cage screws.
They are climbing at speed which doesn't indicate need for brakes at all!
I have both brake types on my different road bikes. I don't see any reason to replace rim brakes with discs even for the wet weather. I am 100+ kgs and I don't notice any significant difference even on steep descents between good quality rim brakes (on alloy brake tracks) and disc brakes. I think if you have a nice rim brake bike you will never need a disc brake bike if you are not a pro. Btw I can't say anything about rim brakes on carbon wheels because I didn't use carbon wheel with rim brakes.
I have rim and disk Supersix bikes. My rim has Fulcrum wheels with Campy brake pads. That rim brake Supersix gives NOTHING away in braking ability to the disk Supersix ... except in the rain. But I don't ride in the rain anyway.
I have nothing against disc brakes but I have rim brake bikes alloy rims and happy so if the manufacturer's want to change my bikes for disc fine
The rider didn’t do too badly either.
he uses the bike for many other riding purposes hence he went for a disc brake bike. The headline is misleading.
I’m guessing this is less about ‘switching to disc brakes’ and more ‘switching to a more aerodynamic bike that happens to have disc brakes’
Or switching to a new sponsor?
New rim brake bikes are dead. Discs are better but I just bought a rather nice S-Works with rim brakes, brakes are good enough and the bike is amazing.
Because Andre Feather goes disc brakes, means rim brakes are DEAD? Is that the level of your journalism or your shameless shilling?
You completely missed his point. He said that most top manufacturers aren't making high end rim brake bikes.
@@DaveCM "Rim brakes really are DEAD! Why a Hill Climb champ has moved to discs" Notice he expounded on DEAD? 'Nuf Said!
@@savagepro9060 go cry somewhere else. the market spoke and rim brakes are anachronisms, your nostalgia not withstanding
@@quantumdecoherence1289 I remembered the same mantra for threaded bottom brackets, hey, but who's counting
@@quantumdecoherence1289marker spoke? More like marketing department
Winspace SLC 2.0 rim brake for the win 🎉
there will always be 400 gr difference it is maths...
Some people might be pissed off now Feather won it on disc brakes 😂😂.
You wait till next year , ABS has to be accommodated 😂 somehow
That don’t matter though , as long as she’s aero 😊 🤪 🤦♂️
Drink a shot every time Jamie says 'obviously'!
Don't. You'll die.
Yay, another pointless 'rim brakes are dead' video that literally no one asked for.
At least roadcc didn't do the lame 'disc brakes work better in the wet' line. They do, compared to carbon rims. Wish other numpties would compare aluminium rims with rim brakes to disc brakes. Always fine in the wet. I did Fred Whitton in the rain, no issues on rim brakes, and in the Pyrenees blah blah...
How much this bike+wheelset+equipment? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
in order to make it UCI legal he has to keep Disk ...
My BTT has Disc period.
My Road Bike has Rim Brake Period.
🚴🚴🥂🍻
Long live rim brakes!
When the Chinese carbon wheels snap spokes going up the climb you'll reminisce about how great those rim brake wheels were...
They aren't going to snap. Not any quicker than a rim brake will
You don’t need brakes climbing so is completely irrelevant
I'm sorry, your 6.8kg disc brake Di2 equipped bike costs HOW MUCH ?? And of course channels like this don't see a problem here. 0:09
Not the point.. You cant compare an old rim break bunky to a modern disc brake bike.. the latter is far faster and better.
@@jjsadv So you've drunk the Kool Aid & got sucked in to the marketing - well done 🙄🥱. Don't try & sound like you speak for all of us, because you don't. And a disc brake bike will always look 💩 to me. And i'll be quite happy to drop you on a hill climb with my 6.7kg rim brake bike.
@@LosihoTTT haha, Nope, Just like when disc brakes come to cars, I chose to buy disk brakes, simply because they are better in all situations. I also have rim brake bikes, they are cool to ride when I want to go retro..
Your rim brake bike is about the same weight as my disc brake bike, and I love how you think you know me, maybe you can drop me, maybe you are stronger, and younger.. I don't know, but maybe at the 400Km mark you will also be an hour behind.. History will tell us, just like every other vehicle, discs are just better..
Not on a hill climb bike - basic math
Half a kilo additional weight? Eh, who cares, I need to please my sponsors and the bike industry. What's that, a 3 gram screw? Take it of asap, every gram helps!!! The cognitive dissonance in this video is on a new level, really.
I also take my 1kg fanny bag that my sponsor gave me. It’s a fact you better watch your back.
Andrew Feather aka the Twig.
What kind of person thinks you need the most powerful brakes possible for CLIMBING hills?😂
The comment section is full of rim brake fans. I just started cycling 2 years ago and rim brakes are so primitive in my eyes so I stay away from them. They bring back memories of my childhood on rim brake bikes that were not reliable. I can only imagine being in the shoes of older cyclists with better rim brake bikes who grew up with them. It must be hard to accept disc brakes.
Why are you upset about what random people say on the internet? Internet=/=real world. You sound very insecure.
@@independentthought3390 I'm actually trying to empathize because I cannot relate. You must be a rim brake fan. Pls don't be upset.
@@MarkArthur I guess these are the same type of people that argues steel wheels were better than rubber..
Rim Brakes for the win in 2023 ❤
😒😒
"Rim brakes really are DEAD" No they are not! I am not watching this garbage.
Shilling for disc.....
I have both, disc for gravel, rim for everything else. On road rimbrakes offer a superior experience. Sorry it’s my experience
MF don't use bar tape and says that he likes the bike for its aero frame. Knowing his style he climbs out of the saddle all the time which is a position that negates any aerodynamic advantage. This is just marketing BS. You need pizza cutters for what exactly on the hill climb championships? You barely even need a brake at all.
He sold out.
oh yea im sure those smaller cogs are going to get used often...
It seems that rim brake users are sensitive people 😌