The 12 Iconic Future Star Trek Starships

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  • Опубліковано 23 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 457

  • @AdmiralBeatdown
    @AdmiralBeatdown 2 місяці тому +68

    Take a shot every time they mention the discovery being displaced in time.

    • @badgercdlyons
      @badgercdlyons 2 місяці тому +1

      or that a ship appeared in Discovery, season three.

    • @phillipthorne8363
      @phillipthorne8363 2 місяці тому +4

      It feels like this video is a concatenation of one-minute UA-cam shorts, each dedicated to a single ship. That would explain the repetitive script. If you review the channel's main page, it switched from dinosaurs to SF spacecraft five months ago. I'm sensing they're the video equivalent to clickbait "listicles" from the pre-UA-cam era.

    • @johnmeneses7039
      @johnmeneses7039 Місяць тому +1

      @@phillipthorne8363 Partially true, It is just UA-cam AI BullSh!t.

    • @develynseether4426
      @develynseether4426 26 днів тому

      ​@johnmeneses7039 I don't get why they use it. I used a free website the other day that scanned a revision guide page and turned it into a 20 minute podcast with 2 people. When that's available why do people use this robotic garbage

  • @alfonszitterbacke318
    @alfonszitterbacke318 2 місяці тому +92

    The floating necells as a new "normal" is really 5 steps gone too far.

    • @carlh-thehermitwithwi-fi679
      @carlh-thehermitwithwi-fi679 2 місяці тому

      stupid

    • @oliverfranke7650
      @oliverfranke7650 2 місяці тому +9

      that's not the only thing that went 5 steps too far.

    • @thedemolitionmuniciple
      @thedemolitionmuniciple Місяць тому +7

      "this imaginary future doesn't fit my imaginary future"

    • @davedsilva
      @davedsilva Місяць тому +1

      It’s for influencers looking to flex, like the girls who refused life jackets because the would ruin selfies. Guess what happened?

    • @DocWolph
      @DocWolph Місяць тому +3

      There is no declared reason WHY the technology should take that direction. Given how war torn and "wild west" the galaxy became in the wake of the Federation's Fall, Ships with floating sections, something too extravagant, too delicate, too needlessly complex (for what are really military ships), just would not happen. For civilizations that have persisted for MANY millennia with uninterrupted periods of peace and innovation, this may be possible. But not one clinging to existence in and even less friendly neighborhood than in the 24th Century.

  • @jaykay6321
    @jaykay6321 2 місяці тому +21

    As far as I know when Gene Roddenberry designed the first Enterprise he thought of something that would look great but would also be practical: an even number of Nacelles (a rule which the alternate timeline Enterprise-D broke) creating the warp bubble, the saucer section with crew quarters and the bridge and the engineering section with the deflector dish in the front to push away dangerous objects
    With that in mind, what is the reason for detached parts of the ship? What ar the benefits of it?
    You need a force field or tractor beam or something similar to hold it close to the main hull, and in the case of a power outage have fun collecting your ship parts and reassemble them when you get the power back on
    A design doesn't have to be close realism like those RDA ships from the avatar movies but at least some thought behind it. Just because something is possible doesn't always mean it's a good idea

    • @AenVegra
      @AenVegra Місяць тому +1

      Some factions of mine have their parts linked through quantum entanglement.
      But the detatched hull is only generally used *for* cheap ships, though. Mass produced high-volume ship to minimize material usage. But they end up having a lot less of the wierd curviness. They're *basically* just whatever module you want-cargo, transport, etcetra-with engine nacelles (Or one) (Torodial lorenz engines) added on-which contain all the equipment except for a small generator in the main hull.

    • @dillionedmonds5736
      @dillionedmonds5736 Місяць тому +2

      ​@@AenVegraparts linked through quantum entanglement would not be linked in that way. Motion is not a state of matter which is how that theory works. I swear to God people need to stop just taking scientific words that SOUND cool and slap them on things that don't work.
      Now, it could be used to transfer POWER from one location to another as being charged is a state of matter, heat dissipation or data transfer as those are states of matter, but motion is not a state of matter.
      And then let's also just take into account if that was how that worked. Those 2 objects are different shapes, so turning would be those objects PIVOTING on the parts that are quantum entangled. So turning left would cause your nacelle to crash into your saucer. Turning up would cause your ship to be going through space with the nacelles and saucer both turned at the same angle. The theory itself disproves that the tech could EVER work like you idiots think even if we accept your premise. Not to mention a TINY fraction of a millisecond variation in any part of your ship dropping out of warp and your literally ending up weeks of sublight impulse power away from the other parts of your ship stranding you in deep space with no means of interstellar propulsion.
      Please come up with theories that would at least work if we accept the premise they are based on.

    • @annapocalypsezero4719
      @annapocalypsezero4719 Місяць тому

      @@dillionedmonds5736 No need to be such a stuck up little asshole to the guy, he writes sci fi he got a theory wrong big deal, scifi does = fiction. Plus would it hurt to have said, you have misunderstood the theory of quantum entanglement and said this is how it works in the real world. But nope, you just had to go on out there and be the asshole. Was it needed to call them a idiot? I am sure that attitude does you great on reddit.

    • @xheralt
      @xheralt Місяць тому +1

      The _original_ 1975 Star Trek Technical Manual by Franz Joseph "violated" the "rule" (which didn't exist back then!) with the Federation-class dreadnaughts ("au" not "ou"!), Saladin-class destroyers, and Hermes-class scouts. As the arbiter of All Things Trek, the Great Bird approved it back then. He would have had to. Even when he didn't demand it, or be owed it, he was respected enough to always be consulted at least. The Sith Rule of Nacelles (always two, there must be) didn't come into existence (along with "warp cores", that's a whole separate rant) until the 1990's. It was a strategic move by The Great Bird to protect his Intellectual Property against the tangential versions that had sprung up while Trek was "abandonware", such as Star Fleet Battles, which fairly routinely used single and three nacelles. Even the four-nacelle ships of that setting splits them three ways (one Left Warp, one Right Warp, two Center Warp). Love the man, but he could be a ruthless bastard at times, when it came down to business, and he knew his business.

    • @David-jt9nt
      @David-jt9nt 24 дні тому

      well this does make a little sense their energy generation was off the scale but they were material short so having detached nacelles that retracted onto the outer hull of the ship for warp makes sense for a materal saving stand point, and being able to move the nacelles for aditional cargo holds would allow a wider mission profile for all ships durring their hard pressed days

  • @antaresmaelstrom5365
    @antaresmaelstrom5365 25 днів тому +4

    I just can't get over how 'inefficiently using available space' is deemed futuristic.

    • @MegaZeta
      @MegaZeta 17 днів тому +1

      Interesting, as none of the designs from the older shows are efficient, either; they rightly focus on the visual language of television and movie to communicate to the audience

    • @iROMine
      @iROMine 15 днів тому

      So the only design that fully meets your standards are the borg cubes, then? Because every other ship is full of hollow space, for one reason or another. Every Trek ship ever.

    • @antaresmaelstrom5365
      @antaresmaelstrom5365 15 днів тому

      @@iROMine I am more talking about ships that topologically have no holes, but if you want to strawman it this way.

    • @iROMine
      @iROMine 14 днів тому

      @antaresmaelstrom5365 boo hoo. Maybe there's a reason for it. There's certainly a reason the Discovery's saucer is the way it is (spore drive). It could be enhanced maneuvering, structural integrity, or a more flexible design since programmable matter is a thing. And all in all it makes them visually distinct, a new ship formula that doesn't stray incredibly far from the designs of centuries past. The fact that people are taking issue NOW is wild. These designs are the furthest in the future that any Trek show has ever taken place in, and it would be completely in their right to make the designs unrecognizable in comparison to their ancient counterparts. They didn't. Which is an awesome homage. They did as much as they could without ruining the appeal. I'm not strawmanning. This is Sci-Fi. They would come up with any reason under the sun and make it make sense. Automatically assuming there is zero reason for it because you don't like the design change is silly. Maybe they'll explain it maybe they won't. This has always been the case with the franchise.

    • @antaresmaelstrom5365
      @antaresmaelstrom5365 14 днів тому

      @@iROMine Agree to disagree then. I see no reason to get into a continued back and forth on what are taste differences based on differing interpretations of in-universe rules/applications.

  • @KalijahAnderson
    @KalijahAnderson 27 днів тому +3

    USS Voyager = bottle opener.
    USS Le Session = frog.
    USS Drelhos = giant magnet.
    USS Cury = flying dorito.
    USS Credence = 'just throw everything on it'.
    USS Anan = toilet seat.
    USS Zuar = flying toilet.
    USS Fant = pizza cutter.
    USS Nog = giant phaser pistol.
    USS Armstrong = 'let leave essential components (warp coils) exposed to space'.
    USS Maathai = rebuilt space jellyfish based on Farpoint Station.
    USS Federation = 'just let the elves build it'.

  • @Tech_Planet
    @Tech_Planet Місяць тому +6

    The detached ships would only make sense if they were modular and break off into smaller ships which had their own power sources/weapons.

  • @deez8993
    @deez8993 2 місяці тому +61

    All these ships would look better if they didn't employ the floating nacelle/ hull design. Just add bits that connect the shjp together.

    • @theonlyjacknicole
      @theonlyjacknicole 2 місяці тому +2

      @@deez8993 So they look "realistic"?
      It's science fiction! 🙃

    • @Peaceforall20111
      @Peaceforall20111 2 місяці тому +5

      @@theonlyjacknicole perfect answer
      I would have figured the transporters would have made it unrealistic but some people can never be happy
      At one point everything was novel and new; change isn’t always easy or seamless.
      I work in a field that is an Innovator and i guess I have a unique persepctive on change and newness

    • @CSW652
      @CSW652 2 місяці тому +8

      Those are the dumbest starships I have ever seen. How to people go back and forth between the non-attached parts?

    • @Peaceforall20111
      @Peaceforall20111 2 місяці тому +2

      @@CSW652 maybe if u listen to how they explained it u would get it
      Let me guess, u were the kid who was never satisfied

    • @CSW652
      @CSW652 2 місяці тому +6

      @@Peaceforall20111 Whatever, I stand by what I said. Stupid and unrealistic looking ships. None of them look Starfleet to me.

  • @jimjam51075
    @jimjam51075 2 місяці тому +108

    I see a couple of house slippers and 3 specialized toilet seats.

    • @_martian101
      @_martian101 2 місяці тому +3

      You haven't seen kriptonian fleet yet

    • @OutPost_Nerd
      @OutPost_Nerd 2 місяці тому +4

      And you add a pizza cutter (the discovery) to the mix you got yourself a crappy fleet

    • @jimjam51075
      @jimjam51075 2 місяці тому +4

      ​@@OutPost_NerdThe cushy earth-themed one does fit...
      ...after a trip to Taco Bell and you get "the burn".

    • @OutPost_Nerd
      @OutPost_Nerd 2 місяці тому +2

      @@jimjam51075 HAHAHAHA. You win the internet today Jim

    • @ArmonMitchell
      @ArmonMitchell 2 місяці тому

      Yeezy for Cheesy

  • @tanichiro
    @tanichiro 2 місяці тому +61

    why does the USS Annan look like a crappy ripoff of the Ori battle cruisers from stargate?

    • @theonlyjacknicole
      @theonlyjacknicole 2 місяці тому +5

      @@tanichiro It truly is, without the white orb in the middle.

    • @Malbeefance
      @Malbeefance 2 місяці тому +6

      Because it is.

    • @JamesGlass-b1l
      @JamesGlass-b1l 2 місяці тому +1

      I live in Annan SW Scotland. Why name a Star ship after a small market town?.

    • @subraxas
      @subraxas 2 місяці тому +3

      @@JamesGlass-b1l
      I'd believe that the ship was rather named after Kofi Annan.

    • @theoreitem6329
      @theoreitem6329 2 місяці тому +2

      They "stole" many things from other movies or series like jupiter ascending or dr. who. The ship design with flying parts like the warp nacelles, rooms inside bigger than outside etc

  • @grynnreaper6266
    @grynnreaper6266 2 місяці тому +151

    Boy can you tell whoever designed these didn't give a crap about star trek, kinda like everyone involved in discovery

    • @dougsmith6262
      @dougsmith6262 2 місяці тому +15

      It looks more like Forerunner tech than Starfleet.

    • @_martian101
      @_martian101 2 місяці тому +9

      I still can't understand why every trek fans want star trek to be still 80s show forever

    • @carlh-thehermitwithwi-fi679
      @carlh-thehermitwithwi-fi679 2 місяці тому +10

      discovery is not canon.
      That is all.

    • @jameshoopingarner
      @jameshoopingarner 2 місяці тому +8

      @@carlh-thehermitwithwi-fi679 All of them are ugly as shit with the warp thingys detached , so stupid as shit, UGLY ships right ??

    • @liamscienceguy8153
      @liamscienceguy8153 2 місяці тому

      @@carlh-thehermitwithwi-fi679 yeah it is, die mad about it

  • @captainjaller8604
    @captainjaller8604 2 місяці тому +76

    the post modern star fleet. Boy these ships have no rime or reason

    • @etsequentia6765
      @etsequentia6765 2 місяці тому +5

      Agreed.

    • @JOESMITH-qs8ue
      @JOESMITH-qs8ue 2 місяці тому +7

      no rhyme either

    • @manueldeltoro9944
      @manueldeltoro9944 2 місяці тому

      The reason is the federation is a stitched together organization with what ever ships it could get, post burn. They aren't flushed with resources and members like they used to be.

    • @petrosspetrosgali
      @petrosspetrosgali 2 місяці тому +5

      Just like STD in general.

    • @_martian101
      @_martian101 2 місяці тому

      A reason? The federation have many different species members with various biology, yet all ship is human-cenetric

  • @Alex-Rocks
    @Alex-Rocks Місяць тому +3

    They really managed to make the Univers- class shine in comparison ...

    • @iROMine
      @iROMine 15 днів тому

      lmao what.

  • @UrsleBush
    @UrsleBush 2 місяці тому +99

    The detached structures has to be the stupidest idea ever created in Star Trek. I cant hate it enough.

    • @_martian101
      @_martian101 2 місяці тому +11

      Why? Every futuristic ship use detached structures, why living in 80s

    • @anothermancalleddave
      @anothermancalleddave 2 місяці тому +17

      @@_martian101 Because it looks stupid and doesn't make sense

    • @_martian101
      @_martian101 2 місяці тому +6

      @@anothermancalleddave it looks futuristic, every scifi using it so deal with it

    • @mitchkeller7442
      @mitchkeller7442 2 місяці тому

      Because in the 30th+ century we’re still using 23rd-24th century design language with a fleet that spreads across hundreds of species? It would
      Make zero sense that it wouldn’t evolve over time.

    • @Ponk_80
      @Ponk_80 2 місяці тому +11

      I agree that the design doesn’t make a lot of sense, sure it might look futuristic, but it’s not very practical, plus it looks more alien than star fleet, I’m assuming that it is using some kind of tractor beam technology, but what happens if the ship looses power in that area, how is it then going to be functional, there is a reason why the engines are attached to the main ship, and not just floating separately from it.

  • @davidbgreensmith
    @davidbgreensmith 2 місяці тому +57

    The amount of hollowed out space in these ships makes no sense. How do you get from one part of the ship to another quickly and efficiently?

    • @79visual
      @79visual 2 місяці тому +7

      They probably did it to make them look cool. A possible Canon explanation I prefer, is that those sections are actually there but displaced in subspace either for shielding purposes or for scanning technology reasons. It's also why the Nacelles are not connected, they are just through subspace.

    • @MacCrafter707
      @MacCrafter707 2 місяці тому +12

      @@79visual Sight to sight transporters became everyday

    • @yodaslovetoy
      @yodaslovetoy 2 місяці тому

      ​@JeremyBolanos site to site*
      Good try though

    • @_martian101
      @_martian101 2 місяці тому +7

      Aren't they use personal transporter?

    • @davfree9732
      @davfree9732 2 місяці тому +3

      @@79visual I'd prefer to think that the hollowed out space is for a modular section to be placed inside. Then the ship can take on new profiles and different assignments. Otherwise it's just trying to be cool without considering function as part of it's form.
      Transporting everywhere just because they can is a daft idea as seen in STD when a perfectly good set of legs to move around are adequate one minute... And then they transport the next because the writing staff can't write a scene transition. The Discovery itself probably has the least amount of screen time of all ships because they don't do flyby transitions from one character scene to another.

  • @brll5733
    @brll5733 2 місяці тому +17

    The only way these detached strcutres make the sligthest sense would be if they are all slices of a higher dimensional structure. If these ships are actually build in multiple dimensions and so the various parts are actually part of a seamless whole you just normally can't see.

    • @InspirationHouseNetwork
      @InspirationHouseNetwork 2 місяці тому +3

      🤔 That would be awesome! 👏🏽

    • @thanqualthehighseer
      @thanqualthehighseer 2 місяці тому +4

      Or they exist is some sort of phased space or in subspace itself. Can't see why they have them detached when they have programmable matter that can alter it's structure easy.

    • @ercanunsalerturk6138
      @ercanunsalerturk6138 2 місяці тому

      @@thanqualthehighseer As much as I remember they merge back together when they need to go in warp speed. Detachment is just a way for safety and security.

    • @protoborg
      @protoborg Місяць тому

      @@ercanunsalerturk6138 How is that safe or secure in any way?! That seems like it would be LESS secure and LESS safe.

    • @ercanunsalerturk6138
      @ercanunsalerturk6138 Місяць тому

      @@protoborg easy warp nacelle detachment in the case of a possible explosion, etc

  • @aminoshift1158
    @aminoshift1158 2 місяці тому +21

    I feel like the floating necells are really pushing it for believability, also not very pleasing to the eye. The upgraded voyager with the future shielding seemed like an exciting evolution of star fleet, I recommend going with that direction

    • @kennethgreen79
      @kennethgreen79 2 місяці тому +3

      What's even more unbelievable is the explanation that they are modular and can be changed, yet every class has it's own custom detached naucelle.

    • @liamscienceguy8153
      @liamscienceguy8153 2 місяці тому

      @@kennethgreen79 thats not even accurate lol, we see the Merian class nacelles on like three different ships

  • @АндрейМиколушко
    @АндрейМиколушко 2 місяці тому +5

    USS MAATHAI looks like a colonization ship for new colonies on the other side of the galaxy or even in neighboring ones. He made me remember Macross.

  • @stacybenjamin8309
    @stacybenjamin8309 2 місяці тому +12

    These designs do not excite me. The detached warp nacelles didn't make sense during an attack they can be independently targeted. Then there's one ship with no neck not attached to the body at all. Not feeling the designs at all. 😕

    • @noppornwongrassamee8941
      @noppornwongrassamee8941 Місяць тому +1

      They could be independently targeted even if they were attached. Targeting subsections of a ship has been a thing since TNG. I think the lack of VERY THIN neck and pylons means there's less vulnerable things for the enemy to shoot.

    • @Mopsisgone
      @Mopsisgone Місяць тому

      When you are right you are right Stacy! 😢

  • @mikoi4601
    @mikoi4601 2 місяці тому +42

    Star Trek used to have the best looking ships with practical and grounded type design. Even that it was Sci-Fi it still felt like it could exist in the real world. The "new" Star Trek has ruined the sleek and elegant designs of some of the best looking ships within the Sci-Fi scene. From the Iconic Enterprise Refit design, the Excelsior and the Sovereign Class ties together a design that still stands the test of time. The new ships just look like something I drew up when I was in middle school without any soul or thought put into it.

    • @mackloyd687
      @mackloyd687 2 місяці тому +5

      I agree. I also can't stand when they change well established designs like they did with the original Enterprise in Strange New Worlds.

    • @Peaceforall20111
      @Peaceforall20111 2 місяці тому +4

      Come on dude, 700 years between tng and discovery thsts a long time and for the time between these two eras the fact they kept it as close as they did I think is a tribute to original designs

    • @SinbadNaiver
      @SinbadNaiver 2 місяці тому +7

      yep. you pretty much nailed it. Kurtzman never understood trek. He never will.

    • @Peaceforall20111
      @Peaceforall20111 2 місяці тому +4

      @@SinbadNaiver that I can agree with
      Mkirtzman destroyed Star Trek and he will forever be remeberee for it
      But he is a narc and doesn’t care

    • @SinbadNaiver
      @SinbadNaiver 2 місяці тому

      @@Peaceforall20111 Kurtzman didnt even GET or evemn understood the emaning of Star Trek and designv of Star Trek, he didnt even get anyonme who had ANY knowledge in Star trek to make Discovery. He hired a whole buncha people who knew jack SHIT about Star Trek when Discovery was first aired.

  • @keithallver2450
    @keithallver2450 2 місяці тому +9

    As fas as I'm concerned none of these ships are canon.

  • @Kanad_Q
    @Kanad_Q Місяць тому +5

    StarTrek was a great science fiction story. These ships come from a perversion of Startrek that deliberately ignores all the rules, tropes, intent and spirit of its creators (as almost all modern re-imaginings do).

  • @wasgehtsiedasan9562
    @wasgehtsiedasan9562 Місяць тому +1

    I feel like a nerd knowing that, but the given warp speed on the first ship is from the original uss voyager.

  • @brentkeller3826
    @brentkeller3826 2 місяці тому +22

    What happens to the detached parts when the power goes out.
    And the power goes out often in the trek universe.
    The power that runs the fields holding the detached parts in place goes out, what then?

    • @subraxas
      @subraxas 2 місяці тому +4

      A clever writer/world-builder/science advisor would do this:
      When the power goes out and all the back-ups fail too, not everything immediately ceases to work.
      Why not?
      Well, because the systems are still all "charged up". They are able to adequately function for several more hours, if not even days in some instances, even after the main power source has been completely cut off.
      Just imagine it working like your phone, in a way. You re-charge it and then unplug it (meaning that you're "cutting off" its power source), but the device nonetheless keeps on working for an entire day.... or somewhat less.... or somewhat longer . . . .
      At least this is how it should work. The thing is that many writers would likely hate this, like they've, for example, despised the shows' Replicators and Transporters for decades, because it is prone to kill a LOT of means for potential dramatic situations.

    • @stacybenjamin8309
      @stacybenjamin8309 2 місяці тому +3

      Ya gotta get out and push.😅

    • @nickburton9366
      @nickburton9366 2 місяці тому

      Also the power going out was usually due to people messing about with experimental tech or unknown space. on whatever was called enterprise at the time. Maybe they found a captain who forced engineering to stick to the manual and didn't take a lone ship into strange places

    • @Sgt_Glory
      @Sgt_Glory 2 місяці тому +4

      "Captain, that last hit took out the power on decks six through 9!"
      "The nacelles?"
      "They're about 6000km away by now..."
      "Okay guess we're done, signal our surrender."

    • @MinasTsambanis
      @MinasTsambanis 2 місяці тому +1

      Probably, they have a safe fail system that re-attaches the nacelles when the power reaches critical levels.

  • @darkmatter1152
    @darkmatter1152 2 місяці тому +2

    SNW Enterprise is absolutely gorgeous and what it would look like if tech now was in 60's.

  • @AIworkingPlatform
    @AIworkingPlatform 2 місяці тому +55

    Sorry but I don't understand the "iconic" part. These were just a random designs that showed up in discovery (a very bad treck compared to the old ones) and have to bacground of history in start trek lore, they don't look good either.

    • @warwolf88
      @warwolf88 2 місяці тому +3

      I'm with u on that one

    • @subraxas
      @subraxas 2 місяці тому +3

      The show topped everything that came before!

    • @warwolf88
      @warwolf88 2 місяці тому

      @@subraxas you are clearly on crack

    • @masamune..
      @masamune.. 2 місяці тому +2

      ​@@subraxasnow that is high trolling there.

    • @Gunnar001
      @Gunnar001 2 місяці тому +4

      Nothing from godawful KurtzmanTrek is even remotely close to being “iconic.”

  • @BEN-eu6xq
    @BEN-eu6xq Місяць тому +1

    There was also a reason why the Warp Nacelles were so exposed in the past, as they emitted Radiation that could not be easily compensated, which is why they were placed on pylons far away from the hull, which, however, brought with it a major Problem, they represented a tempting Target for any Attacker, as simply destroying or even JUST damaging the Warp Nacelles could render a ship incapable of Warp!
    A Problem that seemed to be solved with the release of the Defiant-Class, so instead of shoving this important piece of Equipment in the Enemy's Face, Warp Nacelles should actually have disappeared completely into the Hull!

  • @craigman04
    @craigman04 2 місяці тому +7

    Tell me, was the USS discovery "displaced in time"? 😅

  • @TairnKA
    @TairnKA 2 місяці тому +16

    At 3:27; and its sister ships the "Clearwater" and "Revival". ;-)

    • @glennwoden528
      @glennwoden528 2 місяці тому +5

      If you get this joke you're old LMAO.

    • @subraxas
      @subraxas 2 місяці тому +3

      @@glennwoden528 I'm only 40 and I know the band. 🙂

    • @FlyingTigress
      @FlyingTigress 2 місяці тому

      Mr. Sulu... I see a bad moon...it's there on the ...!

  • @AenVegra
    @AenVegra Місяць тому

    As a sci-fi writer, there's a race that uses detatched 'drive sections'. The drive sections are more like slightly more permanent tugboats, turning a modular habitation module into a spaceship-having entirely engineering sections/systems/FTL/sheilds/etc, except for one Primary Control Chamber. The main control comes from the hab module it's using.
    They also have monohull designs-which are used for High-Performance use. This is less material efficient and less versatile... however, it is higher efficiency for things such as, i dunno, *military use* and things of that nature.

  • @MinasTsambanis
    @MinasTsambanis 2 місяці тому +2

    A few thoughts...
    1)I just can't keep wondering where the Angelou Class ship has its warp nacelles.
    2) I can imagine the 32nd Century Enterprise belonging to the Constitution/ Kirk Class.
    3) The U.S.S Credence has six nacelles? Does that mean it has 3 warp cores?
    4) The U.S.S Nog and U.S.S Jubayr are the most alien-looking Federation ships.
    5) Most of them are gigantic in size dwarfing the Galaxy Class quite easily.
    6) Never thought the Starfleet Headquarters was actually a starship able to convert to a space station. Cool!
    Plus, you forgot the U.S.S. Andares.

    • @liamscienceguy8153
      @liamscienceguy8153 2 місяці тому +2

      1. Probably underneath it like the Mayflower or Miranda so we cant see them from that camera angle
      2. Yes
      3. The Constellation had four nacelles and one warp core, so why would that be needed
      4. YES! I love that federation ships are actually being designed by people who aren't humans
      5. Yup
      6. That reveal was one of the coolest scenes of the show.

  • @joeldelica8706
    @joeldelica8706 2 місяці тому +4

    Ultra future Federation starship design might not even need a warp nacelles. Nobody ever thought of that? It's like giving modern Battlecruisers triple cannon turrets.

    • @linz8291
      @linz8291 2 місяці тому

      @joeldelica8706 Warp nacelles has been considered as mini types due to advancing Warp core and secondary transmitter, moreover, battlecruisers consoles requires connon, phaser, laser beam, and torpedo, as main weaponary devices to heavy vessel carrier networks.

    • @joeldelica8706
      @joeldelica8706 2 місяці тому

      @@linz8291 What you mean "as mini types?"

    • @linz8291
      @linz8291 2 місяці тому

      I mean they're smaller than average.

    • @joeldelica8706
      @joeldelica8706 2 місяці тому

      @@linz8291 Ah, i see. Still, at some point in the future. The warp nacelles will be abandoned for a more advance system. And the saucer hull, engineering hull and warp nacelles will either change or completely disappear. Michael Okuda talked briefly about that in the old USS Enterprise D Technical Manual.

    • @jaykay6321
      @jaykay6321 2 місяці тому

      I always imagined future Star Trek Ships like the USS Relativity which didn't have visible nacelles anymore and the design was almost organic. I admit I'm sad we didn't see something in that direction or the 31st Century Ships from Star Trek Online

  • @manuel_k791
    @manuel_k791 2 місяці тому +9

    If that's the future of Star Trek I don't want to see it.

  • @mikeyzuoks7377
    @mikeyzuoks7377 16 днів тому

    Its interesting to see detached nacelles. I wonder how the technology was developed considering these ships are all capable of faster-than-light speeds

  • @bluedotdinosaur
    @bluedotdinosaur Місяць тому

    These designs are catching up with modern concepts in science fiction whereas Star Trek has been adherent to 60s and 70s design for decades. I’m a fan. The tribute to classic Trek design is there. The 32nd century technology is imagined here as allowing designers to bring concept art into the physical world. The modules held in place by fields and the primary shapes are reminiscent of Iain M Banks Culture universe.

  • @FredtheDorfDorfman1985
    @FredtheDorfDorfman1985 Місяць тому

    Actually, in the ST universe, dilithium was inert to antimatter when its lattice structure was saturated with the EM field in the M/AM reaction chamber. A tech that would make it reactive in spite of the field would destroy the reactor.

  • @GyorgyGezaMeszaros-l5i
    @GyorgyGezaMeszaros-l5i 8 днів тому

    The idea that the interconnecting "neck" and nacelle pylons being done away with is nothing new. I did a similar thing with 1701-A 20 some odd years ago in a series of drawings, then for proof of concept I took a model kit and painted the neck and wings a matte black just to see how she'd photograph. She was awesome!

  • @ehtx1
    @ehtx1 Місяць тому

    What about the USS Mitchell. It was mentioned several times in Star Trek Discovery.

  • @Sausage_God
    @Sausage_God 11 днів тому

    Are there any star trek ships that can cross warp ten?

  • @TheSignOfZeta
    @TheSignOfZeta 2 місяці тому

    Did they name the second starship listed in this video after the author of The Three Body Problem series?

  • @etorres4u
    @etorres4u Місяць тому +1

    I HATE with a passion the floating nacelles. I hope someday all of this will be declared non canon or part of some alternate universe

  • @dswynne
    @dswynne Місяць тому

    The only sensible reason for the floating parts is for better modularity. Meaning, you could swap out parts of a vessel with ease, or you could separate a vessel depending upon the mission parameters. Personally, I would have these vessels still be one, connected ship just for aesthetics reason.
    Regardless of my criticism, there are a few gems. My personal favorite is the USS Credence, USS Annan, USS Thant and USS Armstrong. Interesting designs, but, again, I wish that the parts of some of these ships were connected to their respective hulls.

  • @mateo_sid
    @mateo_sid 26 днів тому

    idk about you, but voyager doesn't look like a 300+ meters ship with those row of windows (unless they're not windows)

  • @jaketibbs6253
    @jaketibbs6253 2 місяці тому

    Why does the uss credence have 6 nacelles? Surely after u add to many it becomes redundant bcus even the voyager has 2 nacelles and goes like 9.99 warp no?

  • @SPARTAN_Cayde-26
    @SPARTAN_Cayde-26 Місяць тому

    I don't get all the hate against these designs. I actually like the super futuristic and out of this world designs on these. Its like people nowadays don't like change and want to only have the things they liked when they were young or something.

  • @clydefulkerson1118
    @clydefulkerson1118 Місяць тому

    Uhhh...and how exactly do most of these ships warp without nacelles? What am I missing...

  • @shawncarter5619
    @shawncarter5619 2 місяці тому +17

    Ok...these are the dumbest looking ships ever. No form, no soul, no art. Please tell me that you can do better than this

  • @protoborg
    @protoborg Місяць тому

    The Alcubierre-class starship has no warp nacelles what-so-ever. Instead it uses a temporal control device that funnels and controls the flow of chronons. As speed is distance over time, by altering the flow of chronons (time particles), the time necessary to travel a particular distance can be modified. Thus, traveling a certain distance would take exactly as much time as you desire. 10 lightyears would take only as long as you want it to take versus some small fraction of a year. This is up to and including 0 time at all. The Alcubierre-class can also be configured in any number of ways as it no longer requires accounting for inertia.
    The Alcubierre, the ship for which the class is named, is shaped like cigar. It is cylindrical along its central axis and rounded at both ends. It does not have obvious torpedo tubes or phaser banks. The Alcubierre has transphasic transporters which operate slightly out of phase with reality. This allows them to bypass shields of nearly any configuration. In order to maximize efficiency, the Alcubierre has a decentralized command deck with command areas near each major system and function. This design was borrowed from the Borg and has proven important to the Alcubierre's record of never being damaged in battle beyond reason.
    Primary weapons on the Alcubierre consist of traditional phasers banks routed through the transphasic transporters. This puts the weapons fire directly on the target area. Secondary weapons are transphasic photon torpedos and transphasic quantum torpedos. Utilizing the transphasic transporters, the phasers beams and torpedos are directly placed on and in, respectively, the target of attack. This allows weapons fire to completely circumvent nearly any shielding technology. Even adaptability such as the Borg have is rendered nearly useless. Boarding parties can also be placed directly on board a target ship or station. Transphasic shielding also negates the need for a deflector array which opens up more space inside the ship for other functions.
    AS the USS Alcubierre can manipulate time particles, it has a sort of timeless quality to it. Many observers have stated that upon seeing the Alcubierre, they find themselves calmed and comforted by its form. No one has yet to figure out what specifically it is about the Alcubierre that makes it so satisfying.

  • @bobbylong9703
    @bobbylong9703 Місяць тому

    You forgot the uss falcon , 1920 meters long falcon class egg shape sor section warp 9.9975 crew 1600 captain Morgan build 2455

  • @cristianruiz1972
    @cristianruiz1972 2 місяці тому +7

    Where is the successor to the Enterprise j?

    • @subraxas
      @subraxas 2 місяці тому

      Everything has to end one day......

    • @akiro9635
      @akiro9635 2 місяці тому +1

      Voyager was the flag ship in the time line this time

    • @usprulse
      @usprulse 2 місяці тому +2

      blown up

  • @BreadApologist
    @BreadApologist 27 днів тому

    5:34 Oh neat, they made the halo energy sword into a ship for some reason.

  • @nikkotan2840
    @nikkotan2840 2 місяці тому

    some of this ships dates back before the burn so, so most of this ship designed are outdated, but the only updated on some of them are their systems.

  • @_martian101
    @_martian101 2 місяці тому +1

    USS vengeance is the most beautiful ship in starfleet imo

  • @colinmerritt7645
    @colinmerritt7645 Місяць тому

    I know the Constitution class. The Constitution class was a friend of mine. The Armstrong is not a Connie.

  • @medic-gg7jo
    @medic-gg7jo 2 місяці тому

    An Oberth class, on its worst day, is 10 times more appealing to me than all these new ships combined, on their best day.

  • @NiqDucoteArt
    @NiqDucoteArt 2 місяці тому +13

    I love these designs, this era feels fresh and different, not all are my favs, but I appreciate they tried something new 🫡

    • @therecklesswarlock6439
      @therecklesswarlock6439 2 місяці тому +3

      im with you on that, you can tell these are federation ships, but evolved. it makes sense that they look a bit alien to us because its over a thousand years into the future. For example, to the vikings a thousand years ago, our ships now might look really alien to them, why can't it be the same for us, but in the future.

  • @katynewt
    @katynewt Місяць тому +1

    How on earth can a 32nd century ship have a maximum speed of only warp 9.975 when 24th century ones are faster?!

  • @Darmok_
    @Darmok_ 2 місяці тому +4

    Like the writing of Discovery, they all feel ai generated

  • @KuDastardly
    @KuDastardly 26 днів тому

    Voyager "J". Yeah, I saw what they did there. :P

  • @FlyingTigress
    @FlyingTigress 2 місяці тому +2

    Somewhere Matt Jeffries is spinning in his grave.

    • @liamscienceguy8153
      @liamscienceguy8153 2 місяці тому

      Matt Jeffries' core concept for the Enterprise was something that you couldn't build out of modern materials. The nacelles are intentionally spindly for that reason. He probably would have done exactly this had he been able to.

  • @aaronwalker1615
    @aaronwalker1615 2 місяці тому +7

    I personally don't consider Star Dreck: STD canon...It was DemoNUT Dreck created by persons who didn't know jack about ST! Same type of persons that Ruined SW, Dr.Who, LOTRs, etc...Most of these cut and paste ships had very little to do with the iconic ST TOS, TMP, TWOK, UDC, or the TNG era....

    • @GAR_news_network
      @GAR_news_network 2 місяці тому +1

      so you consider strange new worlds not cannon aswell and then also lower decks?

    • @aaronwalker1615
      @aaronwalker1615 2 місяці тому

      ​@@GAR_news_network@ "Star Trek in name ONLY, and written/produced by people who don't understand Trek, or care... Reduced to something palatable to Gen Z /Gen x types with TDS on the brain 🧠...."

  • @davidponseigo8811
    @davidponseigo8811 2 місяці тому +3

    I really think your off on the ship sizes ?

    • @akiro9635
      @akiro9635 2 місяці тому

      its A.I

    • @lasarith2
      @lasarith2 2 місяці тому

      There official size from the Star Trek encyclopaedia 2293 -

  • @icy8113
    @icy8113 27 днів тому

    Lots of hate in the comments. The Ship Designs don't look that Bad. Just different.

  • @dougsmith6262
    @dougsmith6262 2 місяці тому

    Is this Forerunner, or Federation tech?

  • @darkmatter1152
    @darkmatter1152 2 місяці тому

    Voyager J and kirk class are the best ones there.

  • @alternative915
    @alternative915 Місяць тому

    They'll look like items you can find in the toilet. :x
    one look like a shower head, toilet bowl, hair dryer, shampoo bottle, drying cap etc etc...

  • @UnknownUzer
    @UnknownUzer 2 місяці тому +4

    The ships in this series were designed by children suffering from fever dreams and over use of cough syrup

  • @spearwolf2515
    @spearwolf2515 16 днів тому

    The only thing i could find the floating necells is a last resort weapon for planet killer class ships send a warp core into them and boom or something

  • @Allosaurus87
    @Allosaurus87 2 місяці тому

    is that the axiom from wall-e?

  • @kenhales9496
    @kenhales9496 22 дні тому

    Why do most of them look like just incomplete CGI illustrations like Voyager-J, or just an object in the real world like USS Maathai which looks like a jello salad dish, USS Federation looks like a toilet brush cleaner, at least the USS Nog looks like a type 2 phaser pistol. They even took designs from other franchises USS Anan looks like an Ori Warships, USS Zuar looks like the Valor-Class from Star Wars the Old Republic, USS Fant looks like the energy sword from Halo, USS Drelhos looks like an energy weapon from another franchise trying to remember.

  • @JamesGlass-b1l
    @JamesGlass-b1l 2 місяці тому

    Hold on here what about SlipStream drive?

    • @lasarith2
      @lasarith2 2 місяці тому

      From what I recall from the one time I watched it - they crystals that’s used for Slipstream drive are extremely rare , 🤷🏼‍♂️ ( discovery writers )
      even though in the 24th/25th century ~2380-2415 ( including Star Trek online all ships have a slipstream burst drive for 30 minutes (150 LY) with a cooldown of 12 hours ) up to maximum 2 hours (600 lightyears ) cooldown of 2-3 days .

    • @johnmeneses7039
      @johnmeneses7039 2 місяці тому +1

      Load of bullshit and not to be considered as Star Trek canon along with that STD Discovery.

    • @subraxas
      @subraxas 2 місяці тому +1

      @@lasarith2 Star Trek Online (STO) is a mere 'Beta Canon', which basically means "not a canon". A definition of Star Trek IP's Beta Canon is, "all officially licensed NON-canonical works". So at the end of the day, STO does not matter at all.
      Otherwise, the thing about the "crystals" being "rare" does not come from "discovery writers", as you've stated above.
      In-universe, Slipstream Drive is being regulated mostly (but not exclusively) by Benamite crystals which are the best known means for this kind of a job, are naturally occurring, but unfortunately very rare. Even rarer than Dilithium. On top of that, Benamite is extremely difficult to synthesize (Dilithium cannot be synthesized nor replicated at all); in the late 24th century, the UFP's available technology needed north of one year to synthesize one crystal thereof.
      All of this was established on ST: VOY in the late 1990s where the given Drive was first introduced. This only shows that DIS writers do know and do follow ST's Alpha Canon and continuity. Well, at least sometimes.

    • @lasarith2
      @lasarith2 2 місяці тому

      @@subraxas quote from Trekyards when asked , - Booker states that the ( crystals) are extremely rare and he can’t get any - as to why he isn’t using them for slipstream drive , or any other starship for that matter Series 3 discovery, also they are using a form of slipstream in Prodigy with the Protowarp drive and the Voyager A is equipped with a basic form of it , - so we’re both right and wrong .

    • @lasarith2
      @lasarith2 2 місяці тому

      @@subraxas ps: and if anyone would know it would be Trekyards .

  • @brianpeavy1403
    @brianpeavy1403 2 місяці тому

    Nice! Love the designs!

  • @TriplePistol
    @TriplePistol Місяць тому +2

    Is this even a star trek anymore

  • @BrianDrake-u2h
    @BrianDrake-u2h Місяць тому

    That's NO starship, it's a space station! Nice tribute to Aron "Nog" Eisenberg, though.

  • @iROMine
    @iROMine 15 днів тому

    These comments prove that nobody hates Star Trek more than Star Trek fans. You guys really want every trek ship to look like a toy from the 60's and have the franchise never evolve past space twilight zone. There is nothing wrong with all of the original Treks, they are incredible, but not everything new is bad.

  • @subspace666
    @subspace666 2 місяці тому +1

    i kinda like number 7 apart from that the others look fake in the sense they seem to be made to look cool.

  • @alexutz987
    @alexutz987 2 місяці тому

    Are we sure the Discovery was the time-displaced ship? Can you repeat it again, please? I forgot which one it was.

  • @nickoD509
    @nickoD509 Місяць тому

    #11, that's no ring, that's a donut!!

  • @isegrim1978
    @isegrim1978 29 днів тому

    I can’t say enough how much I hate the “detached” design.
    When the inevitable power loss comes you have to call “Quarks Nacelle Retrieval Service” to collect the parts of your ship that are strewn across a few dozen parsecs.
    I heard he has a special Federation frequent customer discount.

  • @jasonsylvander3089
    @jasonsylvander3089 2 місяці тому

    I still hate the federation hasn't moved on from dilithium in all those centuries, when through out each series other ways were mentioned

    • @julianbauer9775
      @julianbauer9775 28 днів тому +1

      what i hate more then the federation couldnt move on. is giveing the dilithium cristalls magical powers and a crying child being responsibal for the burn. Like the wrighters trying to insult my Intellegent.

  • @rickglenn3080
    @rickglenn3080 Місяць тому

    "hidden federation headquarters space station"

  • @dillionedmonds5736
    @dillionedmonds5736 Місяць тому +1

    Why the detached nacelles? They wouldn't function at all. The entire quantum entanglement bs that people try to use to claim pushing 1 atom entangled with another atom would push both is so incredibly false that its incredible ANYONE would believe it. That theory states that quantum entanglement makes both atoms share a state, a state is not motion. So moving one wouldn't have ANY effect on another. It would mean that if you heat 1 of them up the other would be heated as that is a change in state, or if you damage 1, the other would recieve the same damage, or you could transfer power that way as electrifying one would electrify the other, but drawing power from either would cause the power to drop in both. The only way detached warp nacelles would POSSIBLY work would be tractor beam tech, but that would also create a massive structural problem with sheering forces and navigation as the nacelles would rotate at a different speed than the rest of the ship. Just please stop with this junk fraudulent science crap...

  • @stepheniverson6588
    @stepheniverson6588 13 днів тому

    It's like all the good ship designers died in the Idiotic Burn.

  • @prayfawind
    @prayfawind Місяць тому

    i stopped watching STD after season 1, i am glad i did, seems like they beat that going in time bullshit to death

  • @Andypos
    @Andypos 2 місяці тому

    Where is 32nd century Enterprise?

  • @BanditBeauDarville
    @BanditBeauDarville 2 місяці тому

    Is the Kirk Class, the one that looks like an Enterprise, the 1701-X in the 32nd century???

  • @Zurround
    @Zurround Місяць тому

    What the hell is the point of having an entire starship be a jungle surrounded by glass?

  • @manuelmelchizedek4309
    @manuelmelchizedek4309 2 місяці тому +1

    Make models please

  • @hawkstringfellow
    @hawkstringfellow 2 місяці тому +2

    No thought into the kurtzman trek ships and it shows boy did it show they look like clowns designed them oh wait they did😂😂😂😂😂😂

  • @Croftice1
    @Croftice1 26 днів тому

    Since when do starship classes have subclasses? The original Voyager was Intrepid Class ship, Voyager J is Janeway Class ship, which isn't a subclass of the Intrepid. It never had a subclass to begin with. No ship had such a thing.

  • @Techno_Bunny433
    @Techno_Bunny433 Місяць тому

    I did not know that the Curie was that big, such a cool design. I'd have to say the mars class scouts are my favourite future design though.

  • @anthonycorral542
    @anthonycorral542 28 днів тому

    I disagree with everyone in the comments. While I detest Discovery, I love the starships designs from the future. People don’t seem to appreciate how long 1,200 years is. The idea of detached Nacelles is COMPLETELY BELIEVABLE. If anything I’m upset that Starfleet is still using warp or even dilithium. According to lore eventually the Romulan Republic would have joined the Federation and brought the quantum singularity tech with them. That should have eliminated the need for dilithium altogether, and a millennium should have been enough time to figure out how to shut down such singularities without any problems. It’s also more than enough time to replace warp drive itself with trans warp or stable integrated slipstream. I would have also love to have seen ships with no nacelles or slipstream tech integrated into the hull “skin” of the ship itself with hyper efficient drives. Or you could eliminate the two nacelles rule with high technology and had three nacelles if you must have them. Transporters should be reliable enough by now to replace ultra long turbo lift tech with door arch transporters.

  • @linz8291
    @linz8291 7 днів тому

    Actually, when onland countries has united as one united federation of planet in late 31st century, sol local troops and membership extroplanets' starfleets has reformed their ship series towards universal standard civilization. But to excellent starfleet members and galactic council membership extroplanets, to enhance sol council and local troops safety and diplomatic relationships are common sense to space force.

  • @darkguardian1314
    @darkguardian1314 2 місяці тому +6

    I really tried to be open minded about the new Discovery starships but they are
    just to alien for me to even have a model of one next to my Intrepid and Galaxy class.
    Even Discovery itself doesn't fit in the generation class of starships.
    This is all alternate universe stuff from the evil mind of Alex Mandark Kurtzman.

    • @subraxas
      @subraxas 2 місяці тому

      People keep on forgetting about this all the time.
      Bryan Fuller was the original creative mastermind behind the Discoverse's disparate aesthetics. He used to share the showrunning responsibilities with Kurtzman, but Kurtzman was there primarily for the logistics and business sides.
      Fuller was the one predominantly responsible for the Spore Drive stuff, Burnham's being Spock's stepsister, the 'Kelvinverse-like' cinematography, the new visage of Klingons and virtually of everything else, and so on, and so forth.
      If you've watched the first season of the show, then you will probably remember that once the USS Discovery returned from the Mirror Universe, the whole Klingon-UFP War wrapped up somewhat abruptly and unsatisfactorily. Well, this was caused by Fuller's getting fired by the studio's execs partway through the given season's production due to his, once again, inappropriate behaviour. This was a huge complication for the creative team, because the rest of the season's storylines was only roughly outlined and final scripts weren't ready yet. Hence they had to hastily cobble something together in order to finish it all off on schedule.
      And yes, Fuller, of course, had absolutely nothing to do with (not only) the third season of DIS and the ships discussed above, but the overall 'design language' of the so-called "Discoverse" had been firmly established by him nevertheless.

  • @pillepolle3122
    @pillepolle3122 Місяць тому

    The detached nacelles look hilariously bad.

  • @hallnall1667
    @hallnall1667 2 місяці тому +2

    I like some and don't like others. I appreciate what ST: DSC was trying to do. There are characters I really liked such as: Suru, Lorka, Reno, Detmer, Dr. Culber, Georgiou, their version of Spock & Pike etc., etc. And for all of you who didn't like the show remember the "it doesn't feel like Star Trek" was also said about ST: TNG first three seasons before some people came around. I liked ST: DSC because it pushed ST further and no matter what some fans say, it gave us ST: SNW. And for those of you who were around, by the end of ST: ENT people were tired of Star Trek. I know the show had it's fans (I also liked it), it's ratings were way down and the studio could not save it. I'm happy to see any ST because like Leonard Nimoy once said "Open your mind! Be a Star Trek fan and open your mind and say. Where does ST want to take me now". Love it! Take care.

    • @liamscienceguy8153
      @liamscienceguy8153 2 місяці тому

      Finally someone in the comment section who doesnt complain about how "this is what happens when you let DEI hires design your starships", thank you very much good sir

  • @bane3111
    @bane3111 Місяць тому

    USS Armstrong only decent looking ship. The Maathai looks like a wintergreen Lifesaver.

  • @r4z0rv1n3
    @r4z0rv1n3 26 днів тому

    So I never watched Discovery cause I kept hearing bad things about it. What the hell are these ship designs? I get that there are supposed to be 32nd century so potentially way more advanced, but how do floating pieces of ships even make sense?
    Why would you ever do that? What if you needed to get to those parts of the ships for repairs? I realize most of those were just nacelles, but a few of them had the saucer/ stardrive sections just not touching? Like why would you do that?

  • @claytonwise5547
    @claytonwise5547 Місяць тому

    How is this future to be avoided?

  • @chbu7081
    @chbu7081 2 місяці тому

    The Armstrong was the only decent looking ship there.

  • @johnylee9896
    @johnylee9896 2 місяці тому

    These star ships won't look like any star trek previous ships, there design totally different completely different from others