Swapping the Speakers on the Positive Grid Spark 40 for JBL Club 422F
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- Опубліковано 10 чер 2024
- Martin had to swap the speakers on his Positive Grid Spark 40 for new ones as the original ones got unbearably muddy lately and basically died. He decided to go for JBL Club 422F speakers. In this video he shows how to do a speaker swap on the Spark 40 and what to pay attention to when doing so. There is also a short comparison with Lukas' Spark which still has the original speakers and Martin's thoughts on if it would have been worth it to him, if his speakers wouldn't have given in.
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro and why Martin did change the speakers
01:08 How to change the speakers
04:19 The problems with the new speakers
05:46 Sound comparison
07:24 Demonstration of the vibration problem
07:51 Martin's conclusion
#spark40 #positivegrid
Hi Martin!
I am writing to thank you so much for the wonderful experience of remaking! That's what I did. The new speakers are an order of magnitude better in terms of the entire frequency response. The new acoustics works out all the frequency spectra. It's just great! Now my favorite music is playing in a new way. The guitar also sounds great! It's a wonderful experience. I am very satisfied.
Thanks a lot for the kind words, Sergei! Really appreciate it. Glad to hear from your experience and that you like it.
Cheers,
Martin
I have to say... from a video about _"Swapping the Speakers"_ I would have expected to *see* the swapping of the speakers!
Sorry, I thought describing it would be enough, and the actual difference it makes or doesn't make is way more interesting than me loosening a few screws. There really isn't much to it.
Cheers,
Martin
Super brilliant set-up and great discussion.
Thanks a lot kuriko!
Cheers,
Martin
The bass didn't change much, BUT it sounds more balanced/flat across the midrange now, and highs are more crisp. It made the original speakers sound honky and boxy. Nice mod!
Thanks, it definitely got even more bass when in the room, but as you mentioned, also the highs got more crisp. Nonetheless, I started modifying my presets even further with these speakers. I'm not 100% satisfied with the sound, but it is good enough for practice.
Cheers,
Martin
Hey hey Martin... finally freed up enough to check out your latest video! Sorry I could not take part in the live stream… see you guys in the chats!!
Thanks Laz, no worries, we had to cancel the premiere anyway as neither Lukas nor I could make it yesterday on time. Next Thursday we have a live stream again.
Cheers,
Martin
Great video. I wonder how many others have changed out their Spark speakers.
Thanks. I have seen a few with mixed results. I'm not entirely happy either, but I had not much choice and at low volume I clearly prefer the new speakers.
Cheers,
Martin
Replacing the speakers on mine is one of my Summer projects, so this was pretty useful, though I don't have a pair of speakers quite as nice as these, though I do think that its going to be a good upgrade.
I'm not quite sure I picked the right speakers though. The more I play it, the more I recognize the increased bass. It's not muddy anymore, but I think I have to even further reduce the bass with the EQ pedal.
Cheers,
Martin
You could use a spray foam or caulk or adhesive weather strips to reduce or eliminate that vibration. I'm sure there may be other alternatives you could experiment with, also. New speakers sound is fuller and notes are better defined. Good luck.
Thanks, I use it now mostly in the living room anyway at lower levels.
Cheers,
Martin
I tried JBL STAGE 3427F and heard bass "rattle" you described with guitar low open E and with blue tooth music at full volume. I don't think it's the cabinet. I went back with the factory speakers and no rattle no bass distortion even at Max Bluetooth music volume. To me it sounds like a deliberate bass boost from the amp's electronics that's tuned specifically for the factory speakers, to make them sound fuller without distorting. I think the JBL is not designed to reproduce the bass boost from the amp default eq and it's being overloaded at high volumes. The problem isn't the factory speakers. It's the amp's default eq setting.
I've tried it with that metal housing removed from the wooden cabinet and the rattle was gone. I'm almost certain that it is the housing that is vibrating in my case at least.
Cheers,
Martin
I would agree with you that the mechanical aspects of the cabinet are probably playing a big part in causing "mechanical" distortion. I'm not as far along as you. I haven't dissected my cabinet...yet. But thanks for the insight. I just did the speaker swap today and remembered your results. I looked you up and found your video and watched it again because I remembered your comment of the low end distortion rattle at high volumes. It's disappointingly unacceptable. I also noticed, as you stated, the tone as far as the bottom ended "boomy" tone didn't actually diminish. It is still there. But the 2 way coaxial speaker adds "splash" to the high end. And I think that is by design. The JBLs have a different response curve and seem to add to the boominess. I didn't think this was an issue until I bought the spark mini, which actually sounds better with mid punch crunch tones. When I share tones created with the spark mini, with the spark 40, the two amps sound very different. And it's odd that the smaller amp actually sounds better. So I end up tweaking the tone controls with the spark 40. I think a firmware upgrade from the OEM is what's needed to fix this. Thanks for your input. You're a good critical thinker.
@@toddetter2207 Thanks a lot for your insight! Interested that the mini sounds better. That's valuable information and it's not apparent from the videos online. I'm with you that they should make a firmware update with a better general EQ. Thanks for coming back and sharing your experience and also thanks for the kind words. I can say the same about you. Not many come back and are sharing their experience and are trying to find the underlying cause.
Cheers,
Martin
I am also of the opinion that it is the factory EQ settings of the spark that make it sound so dull, an LS exchange did not bring much until the processing via EQ had let the sun rise, I have now reworked all the presets.
But of course it's still dull and musty via the Bluethoot
that's because 327f is a 3.5" coaxial mid range speaker it can't handle very low frequency and spark 40 is designed to produce very low frequency for bass players that's what causes distortion
I used the JBL Club 4020's and they work great. Not as much bass as the original speakers with smoother high end.
Thanks for the feedback. I guess that's a better option than the 422F then.
Cheers,
Martin
Maybe if you put some adhesive strips of foam (like those for drafty windows) inbetween the metal case and the wood case (just along the edges in the upper part of the metal case, so you don't see the trips after reassebly the whole thing) you can fix the vibration problem!
Thanks, that's pretty much what I've tried so far. The opening for the metal case seems to get higher further inside. I had problems inserting it with the foam strip on, but once inserted, it was still loose. I thought that maybe the foam strip got off, but after pulling it out, it was still where I've put it. I currently just live with it. With the volume I play at home it's not occurring, so it's not bothering me too much.
Cheers,
Martin
@@LMGuitarCorner yeah man i got the point about the distance between the metal enclosure and the top wood of the box. I'm still on the object 'coz i'm thinking of swapping the factory speakers with FRFR coaxial 4" car speakers too... i'm thinking to the Focal ICU100 (wich have a "more tweeter" switch too on the dome!) but your warning about the metal enclosure vibration stopped me... and i'm thinking to a solution. So if through the speakers holes one can go with a hand and a very short screwdriver... another solution can be to try to measure/extimate the space between the metal enclosure and the wooden top of the box... then make two holes for two screws on the metal (like... say... at the two corners) and then use some rubber spacers (something like the rubbers one can put under the legs of a chair... maybe in silicon rubber)... and then screw the metal thing to the top of the box. Yeah i know... a little tricky... but that can be the ultimate solution. Elsewhere... to build a new MDF box from scratch... with a purple SLO100 tolex on it ahahahha :oD
@@Guttalaser The question is how loud you will play it anyway. The Idea with a speaker with additional tweeter boost is great, that might really help. It's tricky inside. I've come to the conclusion that I will just use another amp for more volume. ;)
Cheers,
Martin
I've seen some eminence speakers rated the same as the spark and wondering if they will sound ok?
Thanks for commenting.
I've only tried these, so unfortunately I can't tell you how the eminence will sound like, sorry.
Cheers,
Martin
I'd love to see a spark 40 converted to a 1x12 or 2x12 combo with vintage 30s or similar speaker. Also, how guitar speakers work with spark 40 vs. how full range flat response speakers work with a spark 40
I highly doubt that guitar cabs would sound any good, as it's pretty much a stereo system. This means you'd also not get away with a 1x12 cab, as you'd need at least one speaker for each output with 4 Ohms and only getting one out to a cab would certainly also get weird results. Larger FRFR make a lot more sense.
Cheers,
Martin
@@LMGuitarCorner ok, so it's L & R output, each at 4 ohms? So 20 watts each channel? The celestion FR 12" in a 4x12 stereo cab? Too much power handling?
@gnarlantlers70 Exactly, however, I don't know the Spark well enough to judge, if this cab can handle the Spark. Too powerful speakers can be an issue, especially if run hot. The Spark might output extremely high clipping frequencies if run full blast, frequencies we don't even hear. The smaller speakers might not even be able to produce them at a significant level while the large ones can and get fried. To give you a satisfying answer, I would need to know the Spark better, sorry.
Cheers,
Martin
ua-cam.com/video/A7G1gSzV4vw/v-deo.html@@gnarlantlers70
Does the amp can be use as Bluetooth speakers like if you want to connect spotify?
Yeah, absolutely. You can connect it to your mobile phone or tablet and play any audio from it. That's my most used practice method. You can also plug it into the PC via USB and send out any audio from the PC through it.
Cheers,
Martin
Ditch the speakers and build a separate (FRFR)stereo cab🤔? Idk I’m just throwing ideas at the wall to see what sticks.
Pad the electronic case with dynamat or something like to decrease vibration?
Interesting thought. Got to think that one through. The electronics alone don't use much space. Could end up in an extremely compact format even with separation.
Cheers,
Martin
@@LMGuitarCorner think outside the box, about adding boxes? A pair of high efficiency stereo speakers could be the answer, or at least an option.
Stereo separation adds depth 👍🏽.
I run my WDW with a full blown PA as my W/ /W and my 3/4 stack as the dry so I’m used to having too many boxes 🤣.
I had a toyota Toyota Corolla with, 2 15’s 2 10’s and 4 8’s for bass, 8, 6.5” 4, 4s and 2 planar drivers as mids , 6 planar tweets, 4 horns, and 6 silk dome tweets, running 1000watts bass
400 watts mids
100 watts highs
All wattage is per side.
The back seat was all cabinet as was the trunk. 4 farad of caps to assist the dual batteries and after market alternator. Oh and the stock 6 speaker stereo was also running, I had a switch for all the aftermarket additional gear so the Mrs. didn’t have her bones shook out of her when she drove it 🤣. I miss that system 😟
Yes I am Quite insane 😜
lol Holy sh.. All that turned up must have made that car almost a hoover craft. xD
Yeah, I really like the idea. It definitely has to stay compact though because I take this Amp with me a lot. Could make for another Spark mod project. For now it does the job, maybe later this year. :)
Cheers,
Martin
sounds like a 60 cylcle hum,,, would be interesting to see if it disappeared when hooked up to an external battery
It may be the PUs picking up something from the softbox, our Sparks are powered by a battery. We've got a video on that too. However the noise I'm talking about is a mechanical one. When you're in the room, you can easily pinpoint it.
Cheers,
Martin
can you still adjust the bass and treble of the jbl speakers?
What do you mean with that? You can still use the EQ Pedal in the Spark, but I don't know what you mean with adjusting the bass and treble on the speaker itself.
Cheers,
Martin
Try $1 of speaker wadding/damping acoustic wool/Nylon pillow filling in the box.
Dont fill it, just nail a strip on the opposite side to the speaker baffle to just stop internal reflections bouncing back forwards thru the cone.
Takes the edge off the boomy bass, tames the low mid honk. Reduces the cone excursion for a little sympathy to the poor drivers.
Thanks a lot for the tip! I will try that!
Cheers,
Martin
I installed 250 watt Kickers and it now sounds amazing, no cutting required.
Do you happen to know the exact model of the kickers? And do you still need to correct the bass with the EQ?
Cheers,
Martin
Ya, which model did you use?
@@YesuAiNimen extreme
@@LMGuitarCorner yes run your eq pedal and adjust to liking
Could I replace with 5.25 inch speakers?
I don't think so. You would definitely need to change the cutouts, but I doubt there's enough room for that. I don't have 5.25 at hand to be 100% sure though.
Cheers,
Martin
According to you what are the best speakers I can put on this amp and on the new mini model?
In terms of sound quality, let's imagine that the price is not a problem
In all honesty, I can't answer this question. I have only tried these JBL, and recently, due to a viewer comment, the Visaton FR 10, which are full range speaker in comparison to the JBL, which are 2-way. Of the ones I've tried, I like the JBL still the best, but they are only marginally better (still subjective). I would not spend any money on them if the original ones aren't broken. The JBL also have their cons. On some presets, I even have to turn the bass more down than I had to with the original ones. Sorry to disappoint, but I hope this answer still helps.
Cheers,
Martin
have you tried it with distortion? doesn't that hurt the tweeter of the jbl?
Sure, haven't noticed any issues with the tweeter. In the end, the Spark is essentially a stereo, so I also wouldn't know why it should be an issue. If you're listening to some music with a distorted guitar in your car through these speakers it will also not hurt them, so why should it be the case when they're in the spark? You're not getting the speakers to break up.
Cheers,
Martin
@@LMGuitarCorner I'm trying to make my own speaker/amp an AIO (all in one) for guitar, karaoke and portable bluetooth speaker... I am only concerned about for electric guitar because guitar amps are using single driver unit or a full range driver.... I was thinking if coaxial or component speakers maybe it can damage the tweeters..... have you heavily used this jbl modification? does it still run good till now?
@kronosdarkangel5290 It still runs fine, but there's quite a difference how your typical electric guitar amp works and what the Spark is. The Spark is more comparable to a PC with a DI, which receives the dry guitar signal, then modifies it with software and plays it through its soundcard on a stereo. I'm not sure how this is applicable to what you're planning to do.
Cheers,
Martin
@@LMGuitarCorner I have a very cheap normal bluetooth speaker with aux input and I plugged my multi effects and guitar it works fine it do the job even though it's very cheap like 6$... JBL party-on-the-go speaker can be used as normal bluetooth speaker, karaoke, and even for guitar that's what I'm trying to replicate a smaller version now I am searching for some parts for my build... anyways thank you for the reply and you are the first youtuber (I think) using coaxial or car audio speakers for electric guitar and I am very amazed by this idea! cheers!
Thanks! You're welcome! I wouldn't have done it on a different amp, though. As mentioned, the Spark is not your typical guitar amplifier. That's why I didn't see an issue. I wouldn't do it on a real guitar amp like the Katana Mini or the likes. Your multieffects unit with aux-out going into another stereo system is essentially the same as the Spark. When replacing the speaker, you'll not look for guitar cab speakers, you'll be looking for something for that stereo system you're going through.
Cheers,
Martin
How does it sound for bass now?
Honestly, I can't really say because I don't own any bass. However, I don't think there is a dramatic difference between the original speakers and these. The bass issue when playing guitar isn't resolved with the swap, so I assume it should be fine. But I can't say for sure.
Cheers,
Martin
I didn't hear much difference. I don't know if the value for the buck is there. Perhaps the mod to an external speaker cabinet with 8" or 12" 1x or 2X speakers would be better bang for the buck.
There certainly is a difference, but I agree that it's not worth the money if you don't have an issue with your speakers like I had. The 8" or 12" you mentioned would need to be 4 Ohm and if possible FR speaker, not guitar speaker.
Cheers,
Martin
Why did the speakers 'give in'? Not a good for the Spark amp!!!!!!
If I'd just knew... I can't tell you why. I've used it a couple of times cranked, but that's it. Most of the time I've played it with headphones anyway. But it definitely lost heights over time, which turned it from bass heavy to unbearable bass heavy. Certainly doesn't speak for the Spark, but Lukas' doesn't have this problem (yet), so mine just might have been a lemon.
Cheers,
Martin
What does positive grid use as standard speakers?
I honestly have no idea. The speakers are not labeled. In the Specs they also only state "Two - 4" Custom Designed Speakers" and that they are 4 Ohm.
Cheers,
Martin
@@LMGuitarCorner 2 4 0hm speakers all I need to know, Probably 20 watts each
@@samuelholmes1228 Most likely, yes.
Cheers,
Martin
I think the EQ Pedal saved this amp without it the Amp was awful too much Bass.
Very true...
Cheers,
Martin
Why dont you just build another cab for it?
Tbh, I care too little for it. I'm not playing it that loud anymore, so I'm not hearing that slight buzz when I'm playing. It does the job for practice.
Cheers,
Martin
Jvc cs-dr420 better option 35rms 220 watt .. I removed my kenwood kfc1066 .not loud enough 21rms
Thanks for the tip!
Cheers,
Martin
They both just sound like my computer speakers for some reason :P
Haha, good one. :)
those JBL 422F are not designed for guitar amps, they are car audio coaxial speakers- woofers with tweeters. The woofers have a foam roll surround and are designed to pump low bass, not full range, the tweeters are only for high highs. This is a bad choice. you heed full range speakers.
Valid point, although the Spark is not a typical guitar amp. It's more a small stereo system with a processor that modifies your input signal. But I just decided to order 2 Visaton FR 10 4Ohm Speaker for a comparison.
Cheers,
Martin
@@LMGuitarCornerwell it has been a year, did u manage to swap out the new speakers and how was it? There are too many videos in your lists i am not sure if i can find them quick....
Thanks for the reminder. We didn't make a video about it. I did try them, but it was essentially the same sound as with the original speaker (the not broken ones). I still slightly preferred the JBL and put them back into the spark.
Cheers and merry Christmas,
Martin
Maybe a little change but not enough to bother ...maybe another tone example would tell a better tale.
It's pretty much the same on other tones as well. So, yeah, totally agree, not worth doing it as long as your speakers don't have any additional issues.
Cheers,
Martin
Also the new Spark cab really doesn't seem to be any major thing to get.... I was hoping for a jam quality powered cab but Ola said it was still only practice level volume.
I haven't had the chance to try it yet, unfortunately, so I can neither confirm nor deny that. I had the 40 with me as a backup to a rehearsal and fully blasted, it was not too bad. It was not great, but just loud enough to get through it when the other amp didn't want to work anymore. So I think it also always depends on how loud the others are, especially your drummer and how large the room is. So I would guess the Cab should also work for most people jamming. But who knows...
Cheers,
Martin
those replacement speakers are 3 ohm and the sparks are 4 ohm, for the amp to not be damaged you have to match the ohms...the amp is designed for 4 ohm speakers ..
I've measured the voice coil resistance on this speaker already with 3.9Ohms, so it's safe to say the impedance on pretty much any frequency is actually above 4Ohm.
Cheers,
Martin
@@LMGuitarCorner well that makes me feel better lol, thats good to know ...so do they sound better?
@@geeveeme I think they sound clearer, but are even more bass heavy. Even to the extent that the vibrations cause a buzz with the metal housing holding the electronics as it's vibrating against the wooden frame. So I can't turn it up much more than what 10 o'clock would be on the spark with regular speakers. I'm not 100% happy with these speakers together with the amp models of the spark. I think the sound is a little better, but not worth it. However you can hear a huge difference with Backing Tracks and music. That's noticeable better. If I wouldn't have had to change the speakers, with the knowledge I have now, I don't think it's worth it. At least not with these speakers.
Cheers,
Martin
Gave in? Gave out you mean?
Thanks for correcting. Yeah, gave out. Sorry!
Cheers,
Martin
I think originals were good, but you can put 1 jbl and one original for a blend.
The thing is, my original ones had some issues. They got a lot more muddy than they were originally. The ones you hear as a comparison are the proper working ones from Lukas, so the blend wouldn't have worked in my case.
Cheers,
Martin
@@LMGuitarCorner Do you see them coming out with a spark 2 wireless to compete with the Yamaha THR30II and the Katana Air?
Sorry for the late reply @Bronco2Cj, your comment got somehow flagged as spam by YT and we forgot to check the comments that need manual approval. Regarding your question, I don't think they will. The spark mini is somewhat their competitor for when you want something battery operated from them, and now they also have the Spark Go. Most people using such practice amps won't need the full 30-40W, so I don't think they see the need to also get the 40 battery powered and also compete in a market with their mini, especially as you can always use an external battery pack to do so yourself.
Cheers,
Martin
The original speakers sounded better……
All the better for you if you like them better. I don't, but I don't see it being worth it to swap them unless you have a serious problem with the original ones, like I did.
Cheers,
Martin
Daam bro OG are better (sonyXm4)
All the better for you, if you prefer the original ones. Then I've saved you some bucks if you considered swapping them. :)
Cheers,
Martin
Honestly the original sounds better, the JBL sounds too high pitch and a little distorted
All the better for you, if you prefer them. I wouldn't have changed them either, if mine didn't break. However, I like them more, but not to an extent I see it worth swapping for them.
Cheers,
Martin
I own a spark 40 for a couple of years other than not being a better player lol have had lil problems with it only real thing is wish that they would make a spark 80 or at least a sixty or at least have have a out for running a small cabinet or something like that anyway i like it and if u are a skilled player some of the points made make sense but for a intermediate players it's pretty cool especially for the price thanks for the video cause i was wondering about speaker swap
It's a great practice amp, also just enough to jam with others. I would love an XLR out, that would make it immediately usable with a mixing desk and a PA. The speaker swap is unfortunately not worth it, imho.
Cheers,
Martin
To much bass? Try simply using an equalizer..
Sure, that's what I'm doing, and many others too, but it would be nice if you wouldn't be forced to, as it blocks your modulation slot in the chain. Many people suspected the speaker to be at least a big part of the reason why the Spark 40 is so bass heavy. I'm not so sure about that after swapping the speakers.
Cheers,
Martin