Can A Modern Mage Compete With Age of Gods Magecraft?
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- Опубліковано 17 вер 2023
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Ok, you probably hear this a lot, but the amount of content you post for the Fate Fandom is fucking amazing, good job my guy! Keep it going.
The pleasure is mine fam. I truly love it
@@TsiahIV not going to lie in need you to make a Arcueid vs void Shiki video
@@bowenmosie is that even a fight
@@Exalter06 still would love to see 2 best girls fight it out
Atlas Institute & The Wandering Sea: BIG BRAIN GO BRRR ( the planet has exploded)
Medea is extremely good with age of the gods magecraft but, I don't even think her being top 5 means she's strong as a combatant. She just knows what she's doing and is capable of doing a lot with magecraft. I feel many modern mages could defeat her in a fight. Not because her magecraft isn't stronger but because it all depends on if she has the upper hand or not. She isn't a fighter, she's a strategist. But when her strategy doesn't work out, she falls apart. Hell, the strongest thing about Medea was her master and that's normally not a good sign. So even as a servant, I think Medea could still be defeated by a modern mage. And I love Medea. She's good at what she does but fighting isn't one of them.
Kind of like rin beat her op
It's more or less new age mages have to compensate for the lack of mana available so they either have tools or learn martial arts to continue their craft. AoG basically was the prime generation of magic.
It's not a matter of if she can be beaten by modern mages, it's by who. Rin would have won in UBW when she planned to beat the fuck out of her and blast her face off with all the jewels she had.
Outside of surprise attacks Medea is capable of fighting just as well as she herself can but using a shadow, meaning you could have won a grueling battle, and then you discover it's a clone.
Her magical output is far superior to anyone, the power of her mage craft is borderline true magic, which means the best hope of defeating her is a specific mystic code, or some conceptual power she can't counter.
Medea can also drain your mana as you fight, mind control (can be defended by proper mages, but repeated attacks would succeed), can just send you to Daedalus' labyrinth as you fight if she has trouble.
Nasuverse tends to make overpowered characters weak to surprise attacks, even Arcueid. For modern mages that have no overpowered weapons (Think Bazett), this is the way to go.
She's just like Gil with these modern mages, she never takes them seriously because she knows she's far, FAR superior to them and, like Gil, it causes her a lot of losses. If she goes all out against Rin, that battle wouldn't even last 5 seconds. Hell, she can even get past Saber's A Rank magecraft resistance but that spell would also annihilate the entirety of Fuyuki
It'd take a miracle piled on top of circumstances, but that's practically the name of the game in Fate.
This comment here.
I think Medea's biggest problem is that she is too good for her own good, and since she was always so skilled she never really learned how to cover up for her possible disadvantages (not to mention she had powerful allies that could help do make up for that)
Another thing that makes me think that's the case is that such a concept is a constant theme in fate as for why many servants lose in fate, and is also famously why Gilgamesh lost (which also fits with the common mythological idea of pride being the down all of many ancient heroes)
that's why she let her Guars down against Rin in close quarters since she knew no one could compete with her in mage crash, and she was stuck thinking that fight was only about speels
that's also why her plane failed, she was in a ridiculously good situation, she had basically infinite mana, and had Saber, Fake Assassin, her master, and archer under her command, but still lost since she wasted time bullying two teenagers and let her guard down against archer who she was already suspicious of and knew could try to betray them
honestly idif she had been a little bit more careful and actually used her command spells, hurt her, then not even Gilgamesh could stop them
I think what could be said about Age of Gods mages is they're typically very well-rounded. Medea has been depicted as having the knowledge and analytical capabilities to deconstruct magical phenomenon pretty handily, and the array of magic she has access to is actually quite significant. While a modern mage tends to be more focused at perfecting a specific type of ancestral magecraft and elevating it to or even past its theoretical limits. Though exceptional individuals like Kirschtaria would be the exception, I suppose.
Which makes sense, the Age of Gods means magical threats and hazards are going to be regular occurrences and someone who became a hero or anti-hero in that time would need the skills to cope. While modern mages live in the relative safety of their workshops and near-complete obscurity from the world around them, actively required to not really interact with the world. They can thus pursue a specific line of magecraft throughout their lives and on to successive generations even, with their main barrier being the sheer lack of mana to work with in modernity.
that's more of a downgrade imo modern mages compensate with the lack of mana through combat potential Medea on the other hand is as soft as a Marshmallow.
for example Medea on her best day lost out to Zouken and if the two we're to fight Zouken still comes out on top due to his inhuman nature.
@@tonyinfinite5174 Bro ain't no way Medea is losing to Bug Boy in a straight up fight.
@@knucklejoe26 bug boy bro Zouken was able to fold half the cast with a one star assassin and crummy shadows that didn't have a will yet.
Medea in UBW had way more than him and her only confirmed kill was nerfed Medusa, not enough how about young Zouken in FGO who created the London Singularity and Tanked Mordred sword yeah I don't think Medea doing that not a chance
@@tonyinfinite5174 Kills don't mean jack. Doesn't he die offscreen in non heavens feel routes?
Also, mind telling me how many Heracles killed? Because by your logic that must mean he is stronger.
And when the hell did he "tank" a hit from mordred? Last I checked, Mordred was the one who killed him in fgo, and he didn't create singularity, it was the demon pillar he was a host to.
@@knucklejoe26 1) He hosted the demon pillar that logic is pretty evident considering the Demon pillar was using Zouken powers/Magecraft and his identity instead of using his own like Flauros.
2) Mordred sword strike didn't kill him he turned into a demon pillar after the strike and after we beat that he not only gave us monologue but he even completed his ritual and summoned Tesla post death.
3) your literally pitting Zouken versus Medea in a death match please describe to me how their kill count isn't a part of conversation and boy, your Heracles analogy is terrible Herc has never lost a battle he was sacrificed in stay night he was worn out by Archer, Saber Shirou then Saber kill him do I need to bring UBW and HF both scenarios he lost to stronger people
Someone has best Magecraft? Cut off their Mana supply like Archer did.
Someone has the best abilities? Look for a loophole and kill the master like Kiritsugu did.
Everything depends on how level the playing field is, and how it’ll all work.
Medea being held back by masters is what balances her.
Seems like no one takes servants seriously. Shounan tards
Crap take, the reason she didn't truly win was plot or in your case "planning". Also the fact that she never truly use magicraft all out is questionable. She got Saber, and should have just kill them all in her rain barrier. She summon a fake servant. The fact archer who is plot device in his right,betrayed her is exactly that plot.
My answer, no. At least nearly impossible. You have to be a mix of a historian and a collector to compete. Using some of the oldest mystics in history can work well against mages from the age of gods if you know how to use them. Even then, it'll be tough. Medea has a ton of experience working with the magecraft of _her_ time. Modern day, mages are hiding and the general public don't know about them
Hey Tsiah: Do you think it's possible for the extra classes to have Grands or nah? For fun who would be your hypothetical picks for the categories
It's an interesting debate and I've wondered if they'd ever try doing something like that in FGO before.
BB seems like the defacto grand moon cancer easily unless we would want to try and throw a curveball and give something like the crimson moon a vessel to become a servant through.
Dantes has always been lauded as the quintessential avenger and they keep hinting at the guy being capable of way more than he ever shows so he feels like the best fit for the grand role though it could be cool to see a full powered Beast Angra Mainyu too.
I feel like the role of 'grand ruler' is kind of already handled by the Savior class but maybe the grand ruler could be like an in-between for the two classes and just be the 'ultimate representation of a saint' or something. Someone like Moses or other real big ticket religious prophets/saints of other religions could be a good fit.
Alter Ego is a bit hard to pin down since they're literally pieces of other spirit origins or personifications of aspects of another beings wishes/emotions/etc that got altered or mixed with others into some weird patchwork chimera servant. It'd have to be a very famous patchwork creature similar to Frankenstein or maybe just en even bigger mixture of bigger badder entities like if the Sakura five merged back into one being. Which sounds cool on paper but would honestly be terrifying if you think about it for more than a second lol.
Grand foreigner would just be Lovecraft like everyone always asks for or if one of the outer gods somehow manifesting without a vessel to limit them.
We haven't seen too many pretenders so far but FGO has shown they usually don't like to make them obvious so It'd end up being someone that history always thought was one guy but in the fate verse was actually someone else all along. Hard to predict.
Not sure if a 'grand beast' could exist or not but I wouldn't be surprised if it does. (In before literally Satan is revealed to be the final ultimate boss of FGO after we beat all the other beasts lol)
@@imperfecthaze6321 Thank you for your perspective. I like your reasoning and some of your potential candidates 🙏🏿
TECHNICALLY it may be possible. We did see ORT manifest itself as Grand Foreigner.
@imperfecthaze6321 I feel like grand ruler may be a necessity for the counterforce to deploy a grand berseker. I don't think having a top-of-the-class berserker running around unchecked is beneficial to preserving the human race or the Earth.
@@hoangnguyennguyen1032 Very true about ORT but arent they special cause like King Hasan their the only ones that could even fit this class to begin with?
I just know things like Alia would probably playing a part to see if it's possible for the others.
2:50 and 3:04
Saber is very adorable :3
Most Caster : "Summoned skeleton knights and spamming beams toward all their enemies."
Merlin : *Swordfighting goes brrr*
Can you make a video on where do heroic spirits' weapons go after they die? Since I think that when a heroic spirit becomes a servant, the throne gives them copies of their weapons that they once had in life. For instance, if servant Gilgamesh has a copy of EA that was given to him by the throne of heroes, is the actual EA still out there somewhere in the world?
Witch on the holy night is one of my favorite Nasu works, and Touko is one of my most favorite characters in Nasu. She's badass.
Will power and intent is one of the key factors in a fight, one of these intents is killing intent in a head confrontational on fight and if you lack it in a dual you won't get the chance adjust, hesitation, cowardice, indecisiveness, etc all those get you killed in a deadly fight with high stakes!
Been catching up on the backlog haven't had a lot of time to watch recently qualities been going up and up my guy great stuff keep it up
Media also knows puppetry in Greek myths of her historical counterpart. Medea is powerful mage, extremely powerful BUT in Rin fight she had to consider the ceiling and she good at strategic par of the war but no way in combat which is why she lost
Ok here’s a good question, what if everyone involved in the 5th Holy Grail just straight up jumped Gilgamesh and Kirei. The arguably 2 final bosses of Fate Stay Night. I mean all the other Masters and Servants see how Gilgamesh is the biggest threat. They all join forces and just team up to take these two out. Do you think they could stand a chance by using teamwork and combinations? Or will they just get their cheeks straight clapped up? The set up in either 2 ways, the first is being in separate groups. As in all the Servants fight Gil and all the Masters fight Kirei. Or the 2nd option where they don’t bother splitting up and attack in one big group. I don’t know what team to put Lancer-Cu but let say that he somehow finds a way to break out if Kirei control. I think Illya should have her 2 maids with her since they are supposed to aid her anyway. I also don’t know which Assassin should be used, either Cursed Arm or Sasaki. For Rider she could either be under Shinji or Sakura ownership. No Avalon for Artoria. Her special sheath is still deep inside Shirou….wait that sounds wrong. Although that also mean Shirou has crazy regeneration now.
The other final bosses would be Saber Alter & Dark Sakura in my mind. But maybe that can be a discussion for another time. These two won’t be in the Gilgamesh fight mind you. Cause that’s too much.
If Emiya and Hercules teamed up I think they can take on Gilgamesh. Emiya would provide support while Hercules engages Gil. As for Kirei, the only ones taking him on are Shirou, Kozuki (with medeas enhancements) and Rin. Shirou and Kozuki engage while Rin provides support. Just my thoughts though.
I think the one obvious trick Gil has is gonna be Ea. Everyone would HAVE to ambush him quick enough that he not have time to bust it out. But if Gil even suspects something like that would happen, you KNOW that’s gonna be the first thing Gil does. Kirie is tough, and is a Master at close quarters combat, but when faced against everyone, I really don’t see he stands a chance.
@@rezoventus7832 Illyaviel could use her birds for long range. That or/and her two maids. Leyritt & Sella. They were built for combat.
@@jamesknott5255 Excalibur defends against EA in stay night (maybe Kirei is just a shit master for him since Gil could unleash a more devastating EA in strange fake) so Gil can never win or rather this Gil.
@@reddytoplay9188A lesser changed EA* Gilgamesh has the ability to choose the power output of Enuma based on how much he makes it spin/charge, he essentially just spammed small version in stay night
Maybe some freaks here and there, but the mayority cant
requesting for a don't sleep on ozymandias day 85
About what you said about the Rin fight being pretty bogus on both sides writing/artists wise. Many champions have been instantly KO'd by shots to the temple or jaw they didn't see coming. Still can't expect japanese manga artist to know all the ins out of melee combat
Wow Thank you man appreciate it.
Ay bruh we got this mic quality right there go my goat
Idk if Thia Escardos counts as a modern mage, but he will definitely give those from age of the gods a good fight. He literally forced Enkidu to deploy Enuma Elish. That says something.
I called that plot base writing, close to the worf or hulk effect.
@@Googleisstupid-sk3hm IMHO, even with that in consideration, having Enkidu's Enuma Elish deployed is still an impressive feat, even for servants. It's powered directly by the Counterforce, so the Earth must have deemed him dangerous enough.
@@hoangnguyennguyen1032 Well, he can see “It”, whatever it is. So he at least seems to be in the same boat Ryougi Shiki was in. And Ryougi Shiki was slated to be erased by the Counterforce, evading it by creating the Male and female personalities to hide in.
@@lenleon3699 if that's the case, no wonder Enkidu deployed Enuma Elish. I think it did mention in the light novels that Enkidu can sense the counterforce to some degree.
Thia is a project of 2000 years in the making, though. It is basically the equivalent of a monkey pulling out a best seller after typing randomly for 2000 years. It was a miracle.
Question can the extra classes such as forigners and Alter egos have Grands like the 7 main classes? If so it would be very interesting to see and would some more variety in that title.
Technically, yes. In LB7 we did see ORT manifesting itself as a grand foreigner. So the question would be more of: would the counterforce summon a grand extra class servant? I feel like a grand ruler may be need if a Grand Berserker were to be summoned. You don't want a grand berserker just running around lol
@thiscityisreallylookslikea8340 my reasoning is that if ORT is able to create a grand foreigner saint graph from its own throne of heroes created from servants it analyzed, the counterforce should have the capacity to do the same. It probably won't tho.
I recently came across your channel and watched alot of your explaination videos.
Being anime only in Fate I was wondering what was the End goal of Sakura in Heaven Feel route.
Was she not stopped, what would she do with Shirou, Rin or even the world considering what she was capable of?
And in the same line what would have happened if Iriesviel or Ilya won a Grail War since they were both the receptacle for the grail.
So here's a question about if Medea and Touko did face each other what would Rule Breaker do to Touko?
Well, if touko's in a body made from magecraft...I imagine it'd just turn the body 'off' like a powered down robot or something.
8:50 Wait, how does this work? To be honest, Mystery still confuses me.
i wonder. if medea can summon a dragon. and someone is able to defeat and bathe in its blood. could you get dragon properties like sieg did.
I mean here’s a big question does big g exist in type moon and how powerful is he
Best fight from medea is the shadow medea vs miyu and illya
Can you make a video on Arcuied and the other ultimate ones
Can we get a don’t sleep on Tamamo
I have been playing a lot of Fate/Samurai Remnant and Berserker Musashi reminds me a lot of Fuji-Ne
Just a question, but
what would happen if Shirou got his hands on one of the kaleidosticks.
As far as I understand they connect you to versions of yourself from parallel world.
This alone would be completly broken for Shirou but he should also get infinite mana supply by using them which is even more broken because a lack of mana is the only thing holding him back in some worlds.
Would this have any drawbacks or does this just make him the terminator whenever he can get access to one of the sticks and what would his clothes look like?
If Shirou got a hold of a kaleidostick, nothing would happen because of the restriction Zelretch put on them. Only girls are able to use them.
if rock lost against paper, clearly rock stands no chance against scissors.
gun beats everything, let's just ignore the fact they need ammo.
Eh. In a sense, there's really not much difference between the two. AoG mages are strong not because of themselves but rather the setting they were in. Back then, the World isn't dominated by physical laws yet so you can do a lot of magical bs.
1v1 age of gods mages would be favored cause on average they would be capable of more things, but that doesn’t mean that they’d win. A life or death situation is hard to predict.
Could you show us some of your favorite character designs in the nasuverse? I feel like it would be a good opportunity to shed some light of some characters that get overlooked
Gilgamesh vs accelerator? I’ve never gotten an answer to this question
Depends on if accelerator can tank ea or ambush gil fast enough.
@@stylinsandwich ok here’s the thing, someone like shiro who’s a sword making machine, couldn’t figure out ea, I remember in the video tsiahiv talked about how emiya had a few exceptions that he could copy something close to ea, but not ea it’s self, however I think accelerator with some level of difficulty COULD figure out the calculations for ea and block it, since he figured out dark matter something that doesn’t exist.
How about you do a series of videos where you take your favorite anime characters and class them similar to how fate servants are classed. Nobel Phantasm and all that
Reminds me of the fan servant forums. They have some interesting abilities and parameters
I feel like this is not really fair for either side considering you one is said to be top 5 but in story has really no showing for that just narrative really there isn’t a fair a way to compare them without giving them something or else it’s kinda of a stomp if I’m being honest narratives vs feats is always a challenge great vid man
Would the immortality that Toko achieved be on the same level or greater than the type of immortality that Zoken and Darius attempted to achieve?
It's hard to say I don't know how toko puppets work on her soul and mind in the long span of time. So we don't know if she will end up like Zoken and Darius because they have been completely fucked with their mind and soul. Given the survival rate Zoken has more bodies to take refuge in and Darius has his soul in Pandora which is practically impossible to destroy so only the gods could do anything to him.
Nah. Touko has yet to reach the years they have to know how her soul degrades. Darn is right now one of the two who have reached the longest lifespan without turning entirely inhuman. The other woukd be Prelati’s but they are not quite right in the head, and their new body does decays. Though Touko has admitted Prelati’s skill (we are talking about someone who investigated Outer Gods) since Prelati can truly body jump, while Touko is just recreating herself in a new doll (to the point she no longer knows if she is truly herself or just a clone).
Lets be honest, it is all up to the story and the writers. The serious answer is obviosly no, modern mages cannot compete period. Mystery and magecraft from the Age of Deities was abundant and essential. Modern mages do not have mystery and magecraft has been replaced by technology. However, this thesis is the basis of how to increase the stakes in the story. Therefore, Medea is positioned as a strong antagonist to pump the protagonist up, Shirouh and Rin. Both Stay Night and Witch of the Holy Night use the same plot device of hyping the antagonist only for the protagonist to have some hidden power. In the case of Medea, it was silly and in the case of Aoko it was OP. Therefore, this argument is just a literary device, at the end of the day writers need to get paid.
Has nasu ever stated who’s stronger shirou or shiki and I wonder if both went all out who’s going to be a winner
I think he said they were even
He said it'd be suicide for them both.
Which Shirou and which Shiki? Because it really depends in which ones we're speaking about, both Shikis (Nanaya and Ryougi) can kill any version of Shirou if they are able to get close enough but the Shirous are way more versatile so it would depend in which Shirou we're speaking about, Heavens Feel one for example could "one" shot them with Nine Lives Blade Works in an instant, or Miyuverse Shirou could shoot a Broken Phantasm and "nuke" them, context would be very important.
A coin toss
"(Summary)If powers are at max and we ignore the point of self-destruction caused from overflow then Shiki will win. No matter how much Shirou makes swords, Shiki will keep 'killing' them. It's a different story if it's possible to use a 'Mana Burst' like Excalibur."
There isn't a lot here so, first. This is both at max output, so presumably both are at the peak of their lives.
Secondly, Nasu did note "Ignoring the point of self-destruction caused from overflow" So it seems this was ignoring Shiki running out of steam so to speak.
The final point implies that with the right weapon, Shirou might be able to just nuke Shiki.
My own thoughts are in relation to the line "ignore the point of self-destruction caused from overflow" it sticks out to me. It seems to imply it is necessary for Shiki to win. Which might mean if we don't ignore that then in a fair fight Shiki would lose? Nasu has a tendency to give strange answers, or maybe it's a translation issue.
Also as an edit, I will note that this was for Nanaya VS Shirou.
I'd really like to see a video addressing how the fandom seems to see strong servants. I honestly don't understand why people legit think Shiro is stronger than Gilgamesh when the entire point of that fight was that Gil refused to take him seriously until the very end where it was too late.
Can you rank the Alters again. Becoz of LB7 we got new alters and now they say Eresh Alter is the strongest Alter
So how does the rarity ranking of FGO work. Like cu chulainn being a three star when he’s one of the most skilled servants. And does it all depend on situation.
The ranking is just gacha stuff. Nothing to do with strength. Otherwise, no way is loli Jack the Ripper ranked higher than Heracles, Cu Chulainn, Arash, Lu Bu, Ashwatthama, etc...
@@flamelover1746 thanks I was just wandering because in the story it seems they give more hype to the lower star heroes than the system does
i dislike this question because the only mages people pick out are servants so we don’t know how powerful they were when they were alive. also it’s too hard to answer because it’s all skills and abilities and knowledge, like what if it was an emiya who was fully powered and had his reality marble he would body medea or what if it’s bluebeard vs rin but rin is also fully powered with that knife from heavens feel and had a full teaching from her mentor. i think this question should just be simplified to “which age had stronger average magi” so we can’t pick out the extraordinary mages. like what if kiri had to fight against an age of gods mage he might be weaker in the magecraft area but his origin bullets could instantly ruin a mage which he does everyday.
i think a lot of known mages could beat a lot of age of god mages under the right circumstances(same the other way) like think about lorelei(i think that’s her name) she is said to be second only to the kaleidoscope in the clock tower. also i think age magecraft has weakened overtime but i would say modern magecraft might be weaker but more has more complex theory behind them that you can’t just guess their abilities and then nullify them. really i think the answer is it’s a 50/50 depending on like a million factors and a million more other things that you can’t truly answer it without it being biased towards someone.
Can age of the Gods mage craft deal any sort of damage to Type Earth?
If someone who has no backround in magecraft decided they want to be a mage how far could they go, moral’s or otherwise?
Do you think it would be possible for normal humans to discover and then expose the supernatural to the general public in fate if so why or why not.
Has any fate timeline taken place in the modern world? I.e a world where people have cameras and can easily record things?
Why In other routes Zouken didnt used Sakura? Wasnt he fearing death always?
Zeke?
@@stylinsandwich sorry, I meant Zouken
So basically less DBZ and more JOJO
Okay so this might be a dumb question, but could it be possible for a completely normal human to become a powerful mage if they work hard enough?
We know that's you Waver, quit dreaming and get back to teaching your class
To me it makes perfect sense how Medea can be both OP and also kind of terrible in a fight. She's really good at battle magic because she's really good at ALL magic - but she wouldn't automatically know when or how to use it best, because she's not a warrior, she's a princess. This is why, even though flying is super easy for her, she doesn't think to use it tactically to get away from a melee combatant like Rin. A mage that's weaker on paper could quite easily make up the difference in simple battle experience.
That’s because she’s arrogant with magecraft like how Gil is arrogant about everything. It lead to her downfall. If she went in at 100% against Rin on the onset of their fights, the fight would end then and there.
I’m more confused about what kind of spells would be considered magecraft and what would be considered true magic or true magic level. The wiki is hyper specific but it’s doesn’t really spell it out like D&D. Would Eldritch Blast be considered magecraft? Fireball? Mage Armor? I’m totally lost here.
With magecraft you have to know all the physical steps of a phenomenon in order to replicate it.
With magic, you sau yolo
The confusion usually comes from misconceptions regarding true magic itself. The general description of true magic was "miracles that can't be replicated by humanity". Eldritch Blast and Fireball can be replicated by a flamethrower, Mage Armor can be replicated by any other clothing that can be considered an "armor". They can't be "true" magic as humanity has mundane substitutes for them.
From my understanding, magecraft can be replicated by normal means like a fire spell can be replicated by a flamethrower. However, true magic is akin to something truly supernatural or really iver the top like a miracle akin to bringing people back from the dead or creating an entire universe
Goku/DBZ style power scaling applied to other anime has been a mistake
Attempt 41 of asking you to do a video on white wolf's world of darkness
I dont get why even is Aoko in the discussion , True magic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Age of gods magic by faaaaar
Aoko even can't defeat Beowulf lol. She crushed by him easily
I agree that mages should NOT be able to fight servants besides specific circumstances
Imagine people thinking that a fight between any 2 characters can only have 1 possible outcome, regardless of various circumstances. Silly ass "what-if"ers.
Can they compete? No.
But with modern tech, most of them don't need to.
So mystery goes both ways? A modern mage can come up with a magecraft or mystic code that is so unknown that it surpasses age of gods mystery?
Edit: Is it like how Shirou can't comprehend EA but can comprehend Avalon?
You know I always had this doubt:
if Fate is about summoning historical figures to fight for the holy grail, why has no mage thought about summing Jesus himself so he makes another holy grail then and there? Checkmate 😎you servants may be strong, but Jesus Christ is stronger ✝
Is that even a question? Best girl Rin wiped the floor with Medea in hand-to-hand combat, since ancient mages didn't train to combat using their bodies because mana was all-over the place and it wasn't really needed. Overconfidence and overreliance on magecraft was her doom, and this was as a Servant (generally a Servant is much powerful than when it was a living human) with huge mana pools at her disposal cuz she was robbing citizens their vitality for days. By that same train of thought, Aoko who is much proficient in physical combat than Rin on top of being a True Magician would take out Medea easily.
Didn't Nasu outright say that Aoko COULDN'T beat a serious Medea?
@@knucklejoe26 Q: It has been said that a certain Aozaki cannot even defeat a serious Caster, is this "certain Aozaki" Aoko Aozaki? Is this an assessment based on Aoko using True Magic?
A: "A certain Aozaki" includes both Aoko and Touko. In a magecraft battle by modern standards, a "magus" who is capable of defeating a serious Caster does not exist.
The important word here is "magecraft battle by modern standards", meaning fighting without using True Magic in a modern setting (Medea as a Servant in present time). If you factor in True Magic, Medea doesn't stand a chance. If you transport Aoko to the Age of Gods to fight a living Medea, the latter most probably would win due to AoG Magecraft being almost on par with True Magic in capabilities, doing feats that's impossible by science (Stuff like teleporting, insta healing, stopping time, transferring souls without degradation etc), but not power or scale. Even Goetia's AAS with all the energy from burning several timelines could only reach a level that is extremely close to True Magic, not True Magic. And that was his greatest feat in magecraft. You think Medea's spells are comparable to AAS? If it was, Zelretch could literally blow up the moon and Medea could rival that without preparation. If that were the case, why was she struggling with Heracles or other servants? Even the strongest Excalibur blast we saw in fate stay night couldn't even destroy a city. So, Medea's spells are stronger than blasts from Excallibur? The whole grail war would have ended at the first day just like it did with Solomon if Medea was anywhere near the power of True Magicians.
Finally, Nasu has also stated that Aoko can take on your average Servant (never clarified what he meant by 'average' but I assume he meant non-gimmicky Servants, so not Nursery Rhyme). Nasu also stated in a fight against Arcueid (who is leagues above both living Medea and as Caster) Aoko has a 30/70 chance of victory, which is pretty impressive all things considering.
@@Nephastion22 It is impressive, but you are forgetting that being able to potentially beat Arcuid doesn't mean she could beat Medea. The Nasuverse does not run on "If Character A beats Character B, then Character A could also beat Character C".
Either way, Medea *already* uses incredible magecraft without being in the age of gods. It's stated that her magecraft in stay night is close to the level of "True Magic" already. A Medea in the age of gods would outright sweep Aoko.
And the important word above is "A certain aozaki cannot defeat a Serious Caster".
Also, Isn't Aoko more of a melee fighter? If this is a fair fight without the advantage of taking Medea by surprise like Rin did, I can't imagine she'd last very long when Medea can both fly and just bombard her with spells, since I doubt any normal magecraft Aoko has could do jack to Medea
Then again I could be wrong, depending on what all Aoko can do. From what I remember "Fith Magic" is vaguely defined outside of it having something to do with time and that Goetia's NP has hints to what it's fully capable of.
@@knucklejoe26 That's fair, but I stand by what I said. In conclusion from both our statements: Aoko vs Medea in AoG, Medea most probably wins (if Aoko uses the 5th I'm not so sure anymore). In modern setting with mana degradation, Aoko vs Medea, Aoko wins no doubt.
@@Nephastion22 Hmm...How about we compromise and say it could go either way?
They *are* both pretty impressive
Uwu first
this is simple.. DEPENDS..
old age of god magecraft is almost all the time in what they new age magecraft is based on.. so.. and old ass time mage.. should be better but that depends of the stats.. the syle of magecraft and the position the dude will be.. cuz if we talk about medea.. she is fucking amazing.. its a multitasking motherfucker xD but if she gets hand to hand combat she is fucked.. and dont think casters cant buff themself and go hand to hand.. many can do that.. new mages can buff themselfs and go hand to hand..
now.. the problem is like you said in the video.. WHY.. is people trying to compare a servant to a human.. i feel the same as when people think astolfo is a bad servant and the dude is a monster in terms of str.. but remember he fights against DRACULA.. MORDRED.. SIGFRIED.. KARNA.. AKILES.. but if he goes against for example.. blackbeard.. or any other servant from fgo thats is like a minor caracter.. he will look strong.. everything in fate is about perspective and situation.. not only stats or names.. if only the names have value.. every time artoria apear or dracule they should never lose.. cuz if we go with names.. only GREAT figures should win..
@@YamiKaiba dude.. i litterally said that.. astolfo is going against legends.. not simple servants.. but put him against any other servant and he can destroy them cuz the dude is litterally a trap.. he looks weak but its f strong.. and his spear is broken.. also.. his noble phantasm allows him to teleport mid combat.. thats insane..
Why does people think medea is one of the strongest caster in fate when she will never be
She is tho
@@amaridawkins64 I can name 5 better caster than here anytime of the day
@@ok-rx5eu I mean yeah but she is still one of the strongest. We can name a bunch of people stronger than Herc(berserker), but he is still one of the strongest.
@@amaridawkins64 both Medea and Hercules are strong but people give them way more than what they deserve there are people who consider Hercules ( berserker) the strongest berserker while he isn't
Because Fate Grand order said she was one of the top ten mages *ever*, by the *Grand Caster*.
Okay so this might be a dumb question, but could it be possible for a completely normal human to become a powerful mage if they work hard enough?
The answer is no, this is a basic ground rule of the Nasuverse. Normal people, especially ones without any magic circuits, can only dream of becoming a powerful mage.
For the modern day, magic circuits are needed to perform magic. Though interestingly, I hear magic circuits werent used in the age of gods. Also, a normal human can still pull off amazing feats like many of the street level characters like shiki and has the potential to be a heroic spirit.