Rocket Avionics - Building Lumineer
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- Опубліковано 17 вер 2024
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For the broken SD card...
When the file system is broken I highly recommend to use Testdisk (Windows & Linux), I tried many recovery software and it's the best one I've tried. For a card that is physically broken, it's possible to recover the data by transplanting the flash chip to a brand new SD-card but it's not that easy and you will definitely need to use a microscope. Personally I would let this to the professionals.
I know it's probably some over-engineering but if you use a separate board just for the SD-card there would be less chance of having it destroyed when the rocket crashes and you can even make a small cage around it for adding some protection.
Just put all the CO2 into milk
Send the SD cards to drive savers!
Sir make a video on reaction wheel.
@@Reth_Hard might want to even have some crumple zone around it or like some gel inside or the sd cards might crack from the G forces?
I work in biomedical research. “I know more than you” is such an easy trap to step into.
Humility is hard. It stays hard.
Hubris is so appealing and easy.
Many young "engineers" find the hardest lesson of all is knowing that they know squat and that their degree has (hopefully) taught them how to learn and not much more. The ones that think differently usually learn the hard way!
An even bigger trap is thinking "this should be easy" because the devil is in the details and it rarely truly is.
It's relatively easy to find an engineer who can do one thing as good as another engineer. But it's hard to find an engineer who can do ALL the stuff you've learned, taught by yourself or taught by experience over years on the same level as you.
This is why philosophy and actual contemplative practice are just as important to learn as science. Understanding what knowledge is, what we can and can’t do with it, and then physically sitting down and watching your mind try to construct models out of reality; these are extremely insightful activities and if everyone were equipped with those skills it would solve many downstream problems humans are currently struggling with.
@@Milkshakman I absolutely agree. For me implementation is the last step in the chain. Make a product to cure people. Make your insights and everything count for others. Share.
I feel bad watching Joe desperately trying to hold on to his last remaining marbles while getting Lumineer ready to fly.
Don't. It makes for good watching, but more importantly, it's honest.
Didn't age well.
maybe that’s why he let Xyla paint his nails? 😂
You might consider looking into microsd extender cables. They let you plug one end of the cable into the microsd slot, while the microsd card itself goes into the other end in a different location. Compatibility is definitely on a device by device basis, but the advantage is you could build a more secure environment for just the microsd cards, rather than having to protect the entire camera or whatever else you put the microsd card into.
Cool. I had same idea. This sounds like the solution.
Glue it into a hard enclosure with a flexible glue, maybe.
@@Kenionatus The rocket isn't that heavy, and microSD cards are tiny. Wrap them in a few mm of foam, and the whole package is maybe a cubic centimeter. Put a centimeter of aluminum around that, and you have a 3x3x3cm box that weighs about 30 grams with card and foam included.
That seems like a good idea.
"Constantly on the verge of tears"
Oh hey! someone else follows the same engineering process as me!
Perhaps, on a future flight, a painting with dotted lines with the words: "cut here" will be interesting.
You should remove the 5v line going from AVA to the ESC. The 5v line is there for the ESC to provide power to an RC radio receiver (e.g., the BEC). Since AVA is already getting power from elsewhere, this isn't needed. You only need to send PWM and ground to the ESC in order to control it.
This also helps you avoid an issue where two voltage regulators fight each other on the same supply line - it's common for drones and multi-engined RC planes to remove the 5v line from all but one ESC for this reason.
Yes. That you have to say so, is painful. Use a separate battery for reaction wheel and none of this is a thing.
I don't understand what you're saying, but i want joe to see this
Also maybe add a series resistor (1k) to the PWM-IO. If an IC has no VCC, the IO might act as VCC through protection diodes.
Actually no ground wire to AVA is needed, can be attached to anywhere else ground from battery is pluged in, (with the resistor or diode by Leonelf) I've seen a Matrice 600 pro flight control (3500UDS) burned by a votage going thru 10 bucks servo ground wire.
@@giovannyalvarezsanchez7311 - Very good point -- you do not wan't a ground loop.
One caveat is that you should still need a ground wire if you have an opto esc (optically isolated). Before eliminating the ground wire, check for continuity between the ESC's two ground points.
In Lumineer's case, since capacitor inrush via the servo line resulted in magic smoke, that ESC was not optically isolated -- something to consider for future reaction wheels.
Also you could Yeet reaction wheel “leaves” out of the body before saturation. Toss them out all 4 cardinal directions from the body. Good excuse to use frangible joints with explosives too
😂
How about a clutch on the reaction wheel to decouple it from the motor and let it spin down on low friction bearings naturally?
I think the term you are looking for is "yo yo despin", They are super cool!
that would create 4 basically invisible weights descending from 10km altitude. Nothanks
Yeah. That's going to end well ;)
I really loved the candid video parts of the prep. The excitement and suspense and drama are all completely organic and totally thrilling. And it's fun watching professionals tear their hair out and work the problem as a deadline approaches.
Besides recovering data from busted computers, you're also getting very good at explaining your mistakes in a very clear and educational manner, ripe with the humility which hindsight brings... 😉 thanks for sharing, I'm very much looking forward to your more successful launches in the future. You'll get there.
Buzz: "Fuses, Fuses everywhere!" - Though this might have killed the PWM pin on the MCu anyway. For protection you should definitely implement some IO saving passives on AVA, if you haven't already.
Building on that, a PTC might be useful if you want something that'll auto-reset without opening the rocket
Just increases complexity without adding any flight safety. Overall I feel like BPS is adding too much complexity. But I have no deep insight.
A fuse on the power line to ESC, if (when) it blew, would have been equivalent to unplugging the ESC (unless the issue there was that ground was also unplugged, which I doubt). It seems to me that it's not a very good setup of an ESC that, if unpowered, will effectively short its control lines to ground.
@@robertobryk4989 “It seems to me that it's not a very good setup of an ESC that, if unpowered, will effectively short its control lines to ground.” It is a common problem though. There are plenty of chips you can kind-of power through their I/O pins (because they have protection diodes) which makes it problematic if you disconnect their positive supply but still supply a voltage to one of the I/O pins. A series resistors can limit current to harmless levels but then you’d still be wasting power. Source: I learned it the hard way trying to power down an NFC chip using a MOSFET on its supply. (and then encountered the same problem again with a Bluetooth module)
@@Mike-oz4cv Ah, via ESD-protection diodes?
If there's one team on the entire UA-cam that absolutely deserves some admiration and much more followers, it's your's.
Not only because you're highly technically skilled, or that you build rockets. But because of your fantastic skill to share your learnings and your experiences in this positive and educational way. This stuff deserves to be shared with as many people as possible, especially up and coming flight engineers and rocket enthusiasts. If we all would share and learn from each others, we help the human race evolve and hopefully prosper in both the near and far future.
To not shy away from sharing your miscalculations and errors is the most important thing to help others.
Thank you to the entire team for letting us follow you and learning together.
I’ve been waiting for something like this. Thank you for your hard work for giving us content. This is an amazing series.
👌🏻🚀
I’ve recovered data from several SD cards, full size, mini and micro. Depending on if the die is damaged. SD is easier because of the serial interface. Send me some photos of the cards
I went back and looked. Several of those cards look recoverable.
Basically buy new versions of same card. Rip it all apart and swap the memory chip. Give it a shot.
I think that is quit hard because of the flying bonded wires. I’ve almost always been able to tie to a berried lead from the chip.
@@BenjaminGatti These are microSD cards so there isn't really a seperate flash chip like a CF card, I think microSD cards basically have wire bonded dies.
@@Darkknight512 I think most of them use flip chip mounting, with a few microballs that hold the chip to the carrier PCB, where it then has a few plated vias, that connect to the gold plated top connector.
The amount you're learning (and sharing) is incredible. Honestly, this is what it's about. Thank you so much for putting in the extra effort to share all this with us.
For rotational stabilization I would recommend to look at rollerons. They are also based on conservation of angular momentum, but produce aerodynamic forces and are much simpler. They are also proven to work sub-, trans- and supersonic. They are for example used on the AIM-9 Sidewinder air to air missile.
15:30 Schrodinger's Rocket (cat). 🚀
I remember watching this live then waiting hours to hear if you found it and in what condition.
Fun times.
it's no longer the avionics stack, its now a avionics pile xD
Does that now make him a rocket pile it?
"From the botom of my heart: My Bad!" You are so wonderful :D
The best part of rocket development imo
I wish I was like 5-10 years younger hanging out with this dude. I love watching him work though problems.
Regarding your cracked SD card, I do know a way to recover the data with a 90% success rate, but it won't be cheap. Take the card to your local Staples, and ask for their Data Rescue service. It costs about $1300 if you didn't buy the protection plan beforehand. (I *believe* they will still try to recover the data even if you did not originally purchase the card there) In the future, purchase an SD card from Staples, buy their Data Rescue Protection Plan, and fly that on the rocket. The plan costs about $4 if you buy it at the same time you buy the card, and there are zero exclusions.
There are many places that do data recovery. There are a few of them who do videos about it on UA-cam. I don't want to mention any names specifically, just to be fair to them all. I suspect if Joe were to search out a service doing videos on UA-cam that if he reached out to them he might be able to get them to do a collaboration video recovering his data, and save some money.
Staples is just going to send the card to a 3rd party contractor to do the data removal. You can just go direct to those 3rd parties.
the dramatic tension in these lumineer videos is just amazing
This series is amazing and inspiring, can’t wait to see the next episode and the space shot
Use the reaction wheel to damp impulses and accumulate short term integral, and then use the flight control surfaces to cancel that out with a PID controller - tune the PID controller to go for zero reaction wheel RPM.
Been waiting so long for another lumineer video
Finally!! A Joe video!!
Great nerd out session, thanks for sharing. Great video.
Can we get more up close pictures of the destroyed avionics bay? I would love to see all the destroyed stuff
Just an FYI, at higher speeds (such as approaching the speed of sound) the Doppler shift is enough to make AFSK modems start to get significant errors. A newer technology tends to solve that problem and it also allows for decoding of data at lower SNR ratios (grabs signal out of the noise). That technology is LORA and there are pre-built boards that have the radios together with an ESP32 wifi/bluetooth CPU module and some also have a GPS receiver and/or sd card slots. Using the ESP32 is now simpler since most of your existing software (like from the teensy) also uses the Arduino IDE and some of the same libraries. And the boards are inexpensive at around $25 each.
It's so incredible, how much I learn from your videos! Not that I'm ever going to fly a rocket, it's just super interesting!
You guys are clever, a joy to watch you fix these issues together and work as a team.
Surprised that lipo didn't 'plode on impact, well done not dying while removing it!
You want *spring* terminals. Available in similar sizes to standard PC mount screw terminals, with push release that's easier than screws, and very vibration resistant.
Crimped connectors are way better.
I love the tri symmetry of that avionics sled
Freaking love living vicariously through you
"Today we're gonna talk about the Avionics"
*Shows a web of wires*
avionics is real complex system of the rocket good work there
when will the next episode of landing model rockets come out for blip and blop?!?!?!??
@BPS.space BozoTheJew has got a point
yeah its been like 2 years lmfao
About the wireless systems: Your metal parts around the antennas were not the only problem. For a rocket you ideally want to use a nearly anisotropic (as little gain/directionality as possible) circularily polarized antenna. On the rocket, either a double cross or clover leaf antenna should do the trick. For the ground station you could use a slightly directional helical antenna (axial mode) or ideally have both a low gain and a high gain antenna and switch between them. Higher power transmitters would also help a lot. The best estimate of the Xbee's power I can find is 24dBm (250mW). Something on the order of 40dBm (10W) would be more appropriate, but you might need a license to stay within regulations. Also, consider switching to 2.4 or 5.8GHz. There is more bandwith available and you could use the same hardware that is used for FPV drones, and since you will have a direct line of sight to the rocket while it's in the air the range advantage of lower frequencies is diminished. Finally, test all your antennas. For sub 1GHz frequencies a NanoVNA will help you verify that your antenna isn't garbage (cheap antennas can be close to unusable).
Lightly used, great video Joe!
Entertaining and educational content. Super fun to watch your adventures. Thanks Joe!
I love watching info related to this!!! Your doing such a good job! Cannot wait for more!
Yes!New video from Joe and the mysteries of magic smoke!=)
lumineers avionics when fully built looks so nice, literally engineering art. Love it.
Re: different connectors. I'm with you on that. When I design any system(usually audio p.a./recording systems) one of my major philosophies is "design it so you can fix it correctly and in a hurry when it breaks". You don't want the president and CEO of Coca-Cola glaring at you from the stage for any length of time. I've seen people get lazy and use AC wall sockets and extension cables as speaker cables. Plug it into the wrong socket, and you get to watch a coil inside a ring gapped magnet produce the magic smoke very quickly. Idiocy. Every different type of audio connection has it's own standard plug so you don't do stupid things, same with video, and lighting. However, these days if it's a digital signal it goes over CAT5, which comes at it a different way through total standardization, if a cable fails you can grab any CAT5 that will reach and get the things back up in a hurry. It's much easier to see/feel(working in the dark is something they don't tell you about when you become an A/V engineer) the difference in connectors, and there is 0% chance you can accidentally cross connect power and signal. The goal is to design as simple and robust as is possible to do what you need as efficiently as possible.
Love the channel and the work you're doing. My 8yo would love it too but he isn't ready for long talky sections (give him a couple years), although some day I expect the lure of rockets to be what drags him through calculus. He'd be all over a 10 minute version of this.
Perhaps you need to start practicing CRM on the project? (CRM = Cockpit/Crew Resource Management) It works very well for aircraft safety when used. Many recent aircraft incidents are when it's not used.
A small suggestion for broken SD card.
If only the body is cracked.
Then, maybe use a card reader.
SD CARD can be loose, may come out, so I glued paper on the body with super glue. Maybe you can try.
Try using li-ion instead of li-po.
Li-po is quite dangerous.
But lipo has its advantages too, LiPo batteries have a much better energy density and can deliver much more current than a Li-Ion
Sorry not trying to offend you but your advice is kind of terrible, which shows why you can't trust random people on the internet. I'm pretty sure Joe has already tried plugging one of his cracked SD cards into a card reader to try to get his data, also pretty sure plugging an SD card into a card reader is basically the only way to get data off of it even on a perfectly new and working card. A better idea would be to tear the sd card apart and transplant the flash chip to another sd card, but I don't know if the chip itself is broken. Lipo batteries are a better option for this use case in my opinion with its higher current output and capacity, and li-ion is actually no less dangerous than lipos. Plenty of li-ion batteries (uh-um teslas) have caught on fire.
@@EdisonWong2004
Quick tip: don’t tie people to their ideas if you’re providing harsh criticism.
“The idea you suggested is dumb”
Vs
“Your idea is dumb”
Just helps people part ways with their poor suggestions more easily
It's worth noting that li-po IS li-ion. Li-po is still a li-ion chemistry, but it uses polymer electrolyte instead of liquid electrolyte as in more standard li-ion packs.
Then, sorry for bad idea but I did try paper for SD card.Well it worked.
You ate it. You owned it. You got on with it. Success is inevitable if you embrace your failures. Then you shared it. Thanks for Sharing your fails, they are the most valuable content you can offer your subs.
Joe, if you have persistent issues with inrush current frying your regulators, you should look into adding a NTC Thermistor to the circuit to soften the inrush spike. I've added them to my DC compressor so I can power it with a switching power supply and not fry the supply trying to spin up the motor under a 1500PSI load.
Hey! Nothing perks up a Friday night like a new BPS video! This is how you can tell I am a true party animal.
You could use aero control surfaces "tuned" to work at high speeds that try to zero the reaction wheel speed. That way the reaction wheel works at lower speeds and you don't saturate it.
Great video ! A couple of things, you can get opto isolated escs, also solid core wire isn't good for vibration. If using stranded wire which is more suitable for vibration, you can use bootlace terminals into your screw terminals
Hey! The avionics detail was awesome, but do ya know what was more awesome? Your NAILS! I love them 😍 💅🏻
They make a board for basically dissolving the casing of the micro SD card, or whatever SD card you have, mounting it, and using these little metal arms to make contact and breakout the internal SD card chip. just google an SD card recovery kit and you will see the green board I am talking about.
@BPSspace
i hope people appreciate how well the audio is mixed in your videos. Superb!
I would build a mini sealed "black box" for the rocket which would contain the recorder and the SD card, internally mounted in a shockproof fashion to avoid any destruction then have a ribbon cable connect to the flight controllers. Maybe mount it in a sealed box filled with ballistic gel or something that would absorb any kind of shock from any direction, but can be removed once the box is on ground again (either way)....
You should make "black box" style flight data recorder. Make a daughter board for an SD card or even just an eeprom chip. Pot the whole thing in epoxy in an aluminum housing and connect it to the main board via SPI with flexible wires - make sure to strain relief it. Use Tech Ingredients' thermal epoxy to affix the memory to the housing as a thermal sink. Affix it rigidly to a sturdy part of the chassis, you DON'T want it loose/sprung, ironically, as that exacerbates vibration. Boom - indestructible memory!
Thanks for sharing!
Great video Joe
Charlie Garcia is such a smart guy
Please blown up diagram of avionics bay thing on a shirt thx
All this really makes me look at missiles like the Hellfire, Maverick, Sidewinder, etc in total amazement. It's crazy enough to fly something like this in a semi-controlled manner...it's NUTS to get something like this to rocket to mach 2...3...4...whatever...TURN and actually HIT SOMETHING. Really is damn amazing. And we've been doing this sort of thing for...what...30 years?...40 years? Hell, OG guided missiles go all the way back to the mid FIFTIES!!...and those were based on rockets from the FIRST WORLD WAR!! Friggin nuts, man...
On the other side, consider that this is handful of engineers working with off the shelf parts and with almost no guidance on making the design. Missile design has been iterative since missile design has existed. On a government contract they would likely be paired with someone who had designed all of this before. They're doing everything from scratch. The cool thing about doing it from scratch is that there's a lot of received wisdom that they're likely going to go beyond (flight computers being a big one).
Solid wire is bad with vibration, so use stranded, and get yourself a pack or five of bootlace ferrules for the wire, and the proper crimping tool for the size. That both makes the screw terminal a flat solid surface, so it will grip better, and also handle large currents with lower voltage drop, but also means you can take a small piece of insulated wire, and glue it to all the wires at the end of the ferrule, so you can undo the lot as a unit for maintenance or replacement.
Thanks for the video Joe! I can't wait to see more!
Just as a thought, perhaps you could make a “dummy computer” with a blank slot for the flash chip to slot in hot, without solder but maybe using some sort of clamp like the cpu of a desktop computer.
Obviously, AVA is designed for (let’s say) amateur rocketeers and it is likely that they also will discover the joys of the mangled pcb following hard landing. Preparing for this inevitability with a flash dock might be cool.
Consider using stranded wires with ferrules for screw terminals, solid core wire can break if bent too much
Just seeing the pressure building in this video, I hope you're able to schedule more final phase prep time for yourself for the next launch. It may also be a good idea to have a few consultations with your friends to help work out design issues in an environment where you're not under pressure to meet a deadline.
This is really cool to see. Makes me kind of want to build a little data logger with (possibly knockoff) bmp280 and mpu6500 (because I'm cheap) and shove them into one of my childhood Estes rockets, to watch its 300ft flight...
One of the best channels on youtube! Hope you'll continue!
I would genuinely love to see hours of tutorials about anything you make.
Absolutely beautiful video, I have loved this project from day 1 and I cannot wait for the next video.
Obviously, I'd love to see another huge project like this too but I understand that would likely take your last shreds of sanity!
Regarding being able to plug the wrong kinds of cables together: in the aerospace industry this is often solved by keying the connectors differently. This allows the same *kind* of connector to be used, simplifying manufacturing, tooling, training, etc, but prevents the issue you are describing. Unfortunately it's not possible on many small connector types, though some hobby-available connectors like dsubs do allow for keyed jackscrew / jackposts.
RF is no more black magic than rocket science is! 🙂
11:13 this was hard to pitch to my parents, but I think they got it eventually. I’m talkin YEARS here
One thing I like about this channel is he shows his failures which is often a better learning tool then success.
TeleMetrum ROCKS!!!! It's worth ever nickel and then some. Plus the audio telemetry outputs are great.
Love to following your journey. Keep up the good job!
Looking forward to your next adventures.!
On the crushed microSD cards ... Someone who has the skills (who isn't me) may be able to repair the chips by repairing the broken runs. From everything I know about them, the memory on there really takes up all the inside space under the ceramic. It isn't like the old days where there were (relative) miles of gold filaments to extend a tiny chip to the distant pins of the DIP package.
I don't even know who to recommend. It may be far more expensive than the data is worth.
Packaging the SD cards in a black box style enclosure may be safer. A small aluminum box, full of silicone will protect it from crushing and impact forces. Run a microsd extension cable would do, and you wouldn't have to design anything, other than the box. I'd think regular silicone caulking from the hardware store would be more than adequate, but you'll probably want a protective skin in case the liquid silicone is corrosive while it's setting. A quick test with a $5 tube of silicone caulking, and an old small microSD card would see if it's safe.
It may be worth it to protect the whole avionics package like that. I'm not sure if the avionics would overheat in caulking though. I think it conducts better than air, but not as well as aluminum. Again, something to test with disposable hardware. Throw an Arduino or ESP32 in a test box, and run some CPU intensive tasks. A ESP32 has a built in temperature sensor, which can be read with the temprature_sens_read() function (misspelled exactly as that). The wifi will give you a good indication if there will be undesirable RF attenuation through the silicone. There will definitely be some RF problems through the aluminum shell.
New intro with a lot of #hotnozzle summer is amazing.
26:53 you could flood or coat your flight computer with resin it would make it much stronger and for the short time, it's been used it shouldn't overheat.
I feel like I should be taking a drink every time Joe says "Tender Descender" 😂
you can use stranded wire in screw terminals, but you should crimp some ferrules on them.
I learn a lot from you
You have a really good group of friends/co workers, Which is awesome. Been following you since you began and would love to get to meet you one day! Wish you success.
i applied to learn avionics because of you. this is inspirational. keep up this great work mann...
The MicroSD cards were destroyed because they were in the standard metal slide-in card holder. Next time, solder the wires direct to the pads on the card and wrap them in foam.
He sure does love to show that build montage,it certainly is the best rocket build montage I've ever seen.
I love your channel, guys! Greetings from Bulgaria!
About a PhD's worth of hard lessons in this project. Better to focus on new rocket than getting old video.
The term you're looking for with regards to ensuring no cables can be misconnected is poka-yoke
screw terminal hack : strip wire then fold the stripped bit back over the wire and push it in the terminal then you can screw down onto the insulation and its much stronger.
No! Don't let the magic smoke out!
I'm always nagging coworkers about tinning wires for tiedowns. The worst thing about the resultant creep is that it's really hard to troubleshoot as you can still see a potential on a crappy connection. Sometimes it's unavoidable if you've only got stranded to work with for whatever reason but it's worth knowing about. Ditto on all the other notes on connectors.
Charlie Garcia should be a systems engineer! He'd be such a good one!
frying rocket avionics with the bros does sound fun
Holy cow. Congratulations.. that was insane
And this is why there are industrial output switch ICs that take the pain out of trying to protect digital outputs without jeopardizing signal integrity with large series resistors.
Perhaps you could try having a magnetic Pogo charger on the launchpad. That way you can charge it while troubleshooting without needing a large battery.
Loved the video. Thanks for your efforts