That's why Affirmed won all those stakes races (16?), he was a hard nosed battler, and that was a damn good run by a 3 yr old Sp. Bid - 2 of the greatest horses to ever run in America...or anywhere.
Only one horse won 8 grade 1's in a row though.. can you guess who? Love The Bid though, maybe the best ever, Affirmed wasn't to shabby either, plus he was a good sire..
The 1970s was a spectacular decade!! Once in a lifetime! Starting with the great Riva Ridge, then Secretariat, then Little Current, then Seattle Slew, then Affirmed, lastly, The Bid. I can't name another decade with so many excellent horses. Can You? @@chrisp.9172
@@chrisp.9172 it's too bad we don't cultivate rivalries anymore - horses are retired after 5 races nowadays w/ hardly a chance to race in a few "wars" w/ other tough(er) horses. MONEY CHANGES EVERYTHING. (Thx Cindy Lauper).
@@bishlap Yeah, it seems the breeding is worth to much nowadays, which seems to effect the horses competing in the triple crown. The fillies are still sticking around, there's a few great fillies competing this weekend , that could have been retired. Should be a great race! There's a few exceptions, Chad Browns turf horses seem to compete until they are done. Zenyatta and Beholder raced at 5 and 6 giving us some great races. Even Alysheba stuck around at 5, but those are few and far between.."Time after time", I've thought the same thing
Two of my all-time favorites. Affirmed was just a tough as nails competitor that won so many close races. The Bid looked like a champion horse every time he raced. Two absolute rock stars!!
I was 15 when this race took place. For me Affirmed is still my all time favourite American Horse. The one horse that I was convinced would win the Triple Crown was Silver Charm.
Affirmed at 4 was a monster, a much better horse in my opinion than the 3-year-old version. I love the Bid but not sure he was a true 1 1/2-mile horse, either. As for those who said Affirmed would want no part of a rematch; Affirmed was retired after this race. This was his 29th race.
CIPRIANO DE RORE They each won HOY as a 4yo. Affirmed won 7 of 9 races. Bid won 9 of 9 races and broke 5 track records, including the fastest 10f time ever of 1:57.8, a record that still stands 40 years later.
One thing I always wondered, considering the slow fractions, was if Shoemaker gave Affirmed too much respect in the early going. He had to know that giving a champion 49 for the half and 1:13 for 6 furlongs was only going to make Affirmed harder to get by in the stretch. Either way, Affirmed was as tough a horse to pass as there ever was, as this race again shows. Two of the greatest horses, ridden by two of the greatest riders.
I have re-watched several of Affirmed victories, including the Triple Crown, and noticed that every race had a leisurely pace. He used that to his distinct advantage over the slow-starting Alydar.
Can't help but throw my favorite race in here...you want to see guts, watch Dr Fager give away 22lbs and still take the lead back from Advocator, no less than 3 times, under a hand ride, in the 1968 UN handicap. That horse would sooner die than lose
A lot of truly super horses in the 70s, probably more than any other era. Secretariat, Slew, Affirmed, the Bid, Ruffian, Alydar, Forego, John Henry, Sham...are you kidding me??? On a given day at a given distance, any one of them could win against the other (except for maybe Ruffian, who never trailed in a race until she ran herself to death. Hard to say if she ever would have lost).
Affirmed was my favorite horse to watch as a teenager next to Ruffian and of course Secretariat. I always rooted for Affirmed because he was never the fastest or the biggest but he had the heart of a champion and he refused to lose. You could tell what kind of a competitor Affirmed was by that classic photo of Affirmed looking Alydar in the eyes as he held him off in the 78 Belmont. A true champion!
The Affimed and Alydarr races were classic races, just like the Secretariat and Sham races were classic. Unfortantelyi sham was hurt in the Belmont. Shat a shame!!!
@@ddland45 It's true. The Belmont was Sham's last race. He fractured a bone on his hind leg. He finished a close second in the other two races. Why do you think he came in dead last in the Belmont?/ He was hurt and his trainer knew it. Before the race he did not look good.
@@brucerobbins6528 Interesting information. I assumed Sham was cooked after that duel with Big Red in the beginning of the race and that's why he came in last. Where did you get this information?
I was I was an Alydar fan, so this was the only time I bet on Affirmed to win! I'll never forget his 3/4 length victory. The following year, Spectacular Bid went undefeated! He was so good, that he had a "walkover", in the Woodward Stakes-nobody showed up to challenge him!!
Affirmed always had the graceful champion vs other horses mainly Alydar that was known for being hard charging and tuff. But if you pay attention to the way Affirmed ran he was as tuff as any other horse ever. He would defiantly hold off anybody the whole stretch damn near every time he ran, especially against Alydar. He is one of the hardest grittiest hard charging horses in history, if not the hardest. If he had been a three year old with the immoral one in 73, I really think he had what Sham didn't, that little extra defiance to lose to anyone that would have really given the god himself a real challenge. Alydar was one of the hardest chargers to have ever ran like Zenyata, and Affirmed just ran with him and would hold him off every time but twice. One of those was a disqualification. He never got the recognition of a real tuff runner. It was always he was a medium build, graceful runner. To bad for Allydar though, had he been born one year earlier or later he would have been a triple crown god himself. Kinda like Sham.
Spectacular bid was a tremendous horse but 1 mile and a half was out of his scope affirmed could run all day long especially with those slow fractions.
For all the heart Affirmed showed in his career, Bid was the one who repeatedly fought for position and made courageous efforts in this tremendous race. I love both horses, but Bid is the best I ever saw outside of We-Know-Who.
They were both outstanding horses , while Seattle Slew was a Triple Crown winner, In all likely hood Spectacular Bid would have if Delp used a top jockey . Ron Franklin was just a smart alec kid who ran off at the mouth . Bid had a lot of races and owns the World Record for the 1 1/4 mile on dirt still to this day . Both went to stud but Seattle Slew was the better sire by far , siring another great sire AP Indy . They are ranked very close in Blood Horse rankings .
@@boswindle9050Pincay, had he been aboard Affirmed the day Cordero hustled Slew off early, would not have permitted the theft as Steve Cauthen did. Physicality was lacking in Cauthen. NO horse ever finished in front of Affirmed, with Laffit Pincay in the irons.
@@marcosponce960, yes, that is true!! Affirmed is a Year older than the Bid, and Affirmed lost to Slew, and Slew was a Year older than Affirmed!! That does make a difference!!
@@marcosponce960, I agree, Slew was better than Affirmed, that is why he beat him, in a race in 1978! FIRST time in History, that TWO (2) Triple Crown Winners raced against each other! Yes, Affirmed barely beat the Bid! The Bid, SHOULD have Won the Triple Crown in 1979!!🤔 He was so close, and IF the Bid had Won the Triple Crown, we would have had Three (3) Triple Crown Winners in a Row!!! I think back to Seabiscuit, who beat 1937 Triple Crown Winner, War Admiral, in a race that same Year! You know, ALL of these Horses were just AWESOME, and I miss them!🤗 I love ALL of the Triple Crown Winners, and the NON-Triple Crown Winners! I am just amazed at the Athleticism, of these Wonderful Thoroughbreds, starting with 1919 Triple Crown Winner, "Sir Barton," to Present Day!!!!😍🐎
@@marcosponce960, oh yes, I forgot to respond to the end of your Comment. Yes, the Bid should have had Lucien Lauren, and Ron Turcotte! They made a Winner out of the MAGNIFICENT, Secretariat😍, who Won the 1973 Triple Crown!!! But, unfortunately, Ron Turcotte was thrown from a Horse, during a race in 1978!! Because of this, Ron was left Permanently PARALYZED!!! So, Ron and Lucien could not have trained the Bid, in 1979. Plus, by this time, Lucien Lauren would have been too Old to train the Bid!! Also, does anyone remember that Steve Cauthen, who was aboard 1978 Triple Crown Winner, Affirmed, was ONLY (18) Years Old, when he and Affirmed Won the Triple Crown, in 1978? Steve, is the YOUNGEST Jockey, to have ever Won a Triple Crown!!!! Now, back to the Bid. Either way, the Bid was SPECTACULAR, and he was befitting of his Name, the Amazing "Spectacular Bid," gone and NEVER will be forgotten!!!🤗😎🐎
Top four year olds are supposed to beat top 3 year olds. They are more mature, physically and mentally. This race shows what great horses both Affirmed and Spectacular Bid were. The Bid was probably the best horse never to win the Triple Crown.
@@JoeKoOhNo They only raced each other twice. He lost to Slew in the Marlboro Cup by three lengths. It should have been treated as a match race but Cauthen let Slew get the lead and as in most match races whichever horse gets the lead wins. Then, in the Jockey Club Gold Cup Affirmed's saddle slipped and he raced uncontrollably instead of letting his stablemate, Life's Hope, duel Slew as planned. Slew still lost the race to a $25K purchase named Exceller who was later killed for his meat in Europe. Even The Great Secretariat lost two races to older horses after his Triple Crown. Affirmed's record compared to Slew's shows he was the better racehorse. Affirmed raced 29 times. He won 22 times, was second five times (He raced the great Alydar nine times winning seven. In the Travers he was placed second after being disqualified because Pincay took him to the rail in front of Alydar causing Alydar to take up sharply.) He was third 1 time and out of the money once when his saddle slipped. Seattle Slew raced 17 times winning 14, second twice and out the money once. He also lost to two older horses after his Triple Crown. As to purse money won, Affirmed earned almost twice as much: $2,393,818. Slew $1,208,726. Slew had victories over only one great horse, Affirmed. Affirmed had victories over Alydar and Spectacular Bid.
@@vernonfrance2974 that's hilarious. That sounds like the arguments losers make about Alydar and Easy Goer. Slew kicked his ass twice and Exceller beat Affirmed that day also. Go ahead and believe Barrera's BS if it makes you feel better.
This race shows just how great AFFIRMED was, I thought he was beat 3 times in this race, but not once did the Great Affirmed let anybody go ahead of him! I like short fields, 7 or less horses racing. In short fields horses very seldom get in any trouble and with that being said, the best horse that day will win the race! As was the great Affirmed this day!
richard adams Affirmed had the heart of a champion, he was I think and I am no expert but man I cant think of 5 horses that are better. That horse that Seabuiscit beat in the head to head race was huge, I understand his owner was not interested in setting track records and the like, I would have loved to have seen more of that horse , as he was before my time, he I think could have been the greatest of all time, War Admiral or Man of War, which horse am I thinking of?
Eric Day War Admiral was the horse that Seabiscuit defeated in a match race. However the horse that is widely considered to be one of the greatest horses in history, but whose owner did not care about setting records was Man O' War. So you're thinking of both horses.
I really like the sport I don't call myself an expert, but you seem like you know the sport well, and a woman, not to sound like a pig but you know what I mean.
Well you liked Smarty Jones, I was watching his run that year and he was just about there until , well you know what happened in the stretch, As for Slew he was great and a great stud, The game mostly stayed pure but, thought that distance in the Belmont is just brutal, it really tests a hires.
A 4YO Affirmed was slightly better than a 3YO Spectaular Bid. That one year in maturity makes a huge difference. In the same race a year earlier a 4YO Seattle Slew(2nd by a nose) badly outran a 3YO Affirmed(5th)
Affirmed needed binoculars to find Exceller and was far behind Slew as well Affirmed got better though, winning 7 in a row after the 5 race losing streak
Affirmed, with a field of only four and nobody to pressure him other than SB had a distinct advantage. Shoemaker could've pressed more during 1st half (49s), but a speed duel would have been bad also. SB was more of a stalker. In any event two of the greatest ever and hard to separate them. You can throw Seattle Slew in there as well. I believe Bloodhorse has them: SS 9 SB 10 AFFIRMED 11
Maybe the best 4 horse field of all time. Not sure who I am more impressed with. Affirmed's ability to fight back again and again until putting the challenger away, or Spectacular Bid at 3 years old going toe-to-toe with a 4 year old Triple Crown winner.
Secretariat was, and is, still the absolute king of horse racing. I was only 4 yrs. old when he won the triple crown in 1973, and I wish I was older enough to have watched it live and understand the significance of what he and Turcotte did. The first time I ever watched all three of these races, I was completely blown away. Three top grade races and he set records in each one, all which still stand today. Ever time I watch the Belmont race I get chills because what Big Red did was beyond belief. Just smoked the field. Here's a question for everyone.....Secretariat against Slew at their prime? Secretariat against Affirmed at their prime? Slew beat Affirmed, but Affirmed's mount slipped so it could have been a lot closer race. Spectacular Bid was a great horse, but Affirmed beat him handily. Looking forward to seeing the Belmont today and maybe witnessing history.
Its fun to argue about this stuff but Slew was a year older than Affirmed who was a year older than Bid. They were all three great horses and its impossible to say for sure which was the best.
What a great horse Affirmed was. Most of his great wins were duels with two or three horses going nose and nose and neck and neck. These kind of races take a lot out of horses. Affirmed always held his ground and gave nothing to the competition. Many horses back up when they are contested like this for more than 6 furlongs or more. These close contests lasted in most cases for a mile or more. He was certainly a great horse.
The three horses I would never bet against on their best day are Secretariat, Kelso, and Doctor. I don't believe any of these horses could ever be intimidated (Kelso and DF without a doubt). Secretariat and Kelso could win at any distance up to two miles (Yes, Big Red never ran two miles, but I have no doubt he could have in resounding fashion), and Doctor Fager up to a mile. Yes he could run a mile and quarter under the right conditions, but it was at the edge if his range and a fast pace could hurt him. At a mile you couldn't touch him even with a rabbit.
@@roundtable3501 I love the doctor, and he might have been the fastest horse ever up to a mile. Sure he could run beyond that, the problem was, as I said, he was susceptible to rabbits, which were used against him successfully twice at 1 1/4, his only two real losses after age two. That's probably why he rarely ran more than a mile. If you used rabbits against big red or kelso, you'd only succeed in killing your rabbits.
Mike Blast Well, first off, 10 out of 22 of his races were over a mile, so I wouldn’t call that “rare.” The main reason why I replied is because I didn’t understand why you were saying Dr. Fager has a distance problem and not Kelso. Kelso struggled at shorter distances more than Dr. Fager did at longer ones. Kelso’s record at distances under a mile was 3 for 9, 33%, with 0 track records. Meanwhile Dr. Fager’s 1 1/4 record was 3 for 5, and the only horses who beat him were two all time greats, Buckpasser and Damascus, who could easily be put in the same league as the 3 you mentioned. Yet in your original post, you only mentioned about the good doctor having a problem at a certain distance. Against Kelso at a distance like 7 furlongs, you wouldn’t need a rabbit or anything. You’d just need a decent sprinter to beat him.
I have read that the Bid lost the bit around the far turn. And it is very apparent when you watch it. Probably lost a good 3 lengths. Not sure if he would have beaten Affirmed anyway on this day. Affirmed was a great horse and may have still responded. Those slow fractions was the catalyst. But what is true... Affirmed wanted no part in any sort of rematch, with what went on to be probably be, history`s greatest galloper!! The Bid never lost again, shattering records on almost every outing. His 157 4/5 still remains the fastest race ever run at the classic distance of a 1 1/4 mile. And he did it, under complete wraps the last 200 yards! Horses don't even run sub 2 minutes anymore. Great to watch 2 titans like these collide. Wish we had that today!! May never see it again. Hell I cant think of a horse that has run in the last decade, that would even hold a candle to Coastal, who ran 3erd in the race above.
Lol. I just read it was The Shoe. I'm an ex jock and old enough to remember him (I even met him) kind of a sour, unfriendly jerk by the time I met him but he could ride a bit. ;) I'll watch race again and see what happened.
You don't know that Affirmed wanted no part of a rematch. Affirmed retired later into his 4 year season than Bid did when he retired at age 4. You could just as easily argue that Bid's handlers were afraid to try him again at 1 1/2 miles in the JCGC, against John Henry and Temperance Hill, at age 4 and therefore retired him. We don't know that either. We DO know that Bid wanted no part of Winter's Tale in the Marlboro Cup when Bid got assigned 136 pounds. Bid got scratched. It does not seem that Bid's handlers had the kind of confidence in Bid, that Forego and Dr. Fager's connections had when their horses ran with high weights running against horses at least as good as Winter's Tale (e.g. Fort Marcy, Damascus, Honest Pleasure, Foolish Pleasure)
Wow, what a Great Race!! Affirmed, just proved why he was the 1978 Triple Crown CHAMP!!😍 Affirmed's Jockey, Steve Cauthen, was ONLY (18) Years Old, when he Won the 1978 Triple Crown, aboard the Great Affirmed!!! I wish that Alydar had been in this Race!!!😍 Alydar had Triple Crown Caliber, but he was born in the Wrong Year!!! That Spectacular Bid, was a Great Horse, and he should have Won the 1979 Triple Crown!😍
Spectacular Bid had no excuse to lose the Belmont. He simply tired. Seattle Slew (who I think is better than Affirmed) didn't tire in the Belmont after a similar trip.
@@michaelcolfin8464, I agree, The Bid, just tired out, or his Jockey did not perform the best. Either way, The Bid, had the immense TALENT, to be a Triple Crown Winner!👍 If The Bid, had won the 1979 Triple Crown, it would have been the FIRST time, that we would have had, (3) Triple Crown Winners, in a row! Wow, what could have been, darn!🤔 Yes, I also agree, that Seattle Slew, was better than Affirmed......without a doubt! Seattle Slew, DID race against Affirmed, in 1978, after Affirmed won the Triple Crown. It was the FIRST time EVER, that Triple Crown Winners, raced against each other!🤗 Seattle Slew, did WIN the race, against Affirmed! Now, it could have been, that Seattle Slew WON that race, either because he was simply better than Affirmed; Affirmed, could have been TIRED out, because Seattle Slew had time to REST, after his 1977 Triple Crown win; or, that Seattle Slew, was ONE (1) Year OLDER than Affirmed! This, can make a BIG difference, in Horse Racing!
@@tracydavis8982 Maybe the Bid let Affirmed have it 'too easy' at the front. In this race the half was 49 seconds. Affirmed is a very game horse, (go ask Alydar). The Bid challenged but was never in front. When Affirmed met Slew in the Marlboro Cup, Affirmed was never within 3 lengths of the lead and the half was 2 seconds faster at 47 and that was with more horses so Slew didn't need to go that fast. Of course in the 78 Jockey Club, they went 45 and 1 only to see Slew to lose by the slimmest of noses to Exceller and Affirmed well back (they said his saddle slipped, but I doubt he would have won) You wished that Alydar was in this race, what about Slew. But this can never happen and it's worse today. Great horses, not only don't race at five, they don't race at 4,. Probably, no 'great' horse will race to four. The breeders cup will likely be the last race in their careers from now on. You really can't blame them. A half a ton of horse, running full out all on these relatively small ankles. All horse owners know the what happened to Ruffian, they can't take that risk
@@michaelcolfin8464, I said that I wished Alydar was in this race, and I did not mention Slew, because Alydar would have been (4) Years old, the same age as Affirmed, and Slew would have been (5) Years old.....too OLD to be racing. Yes, if Slew, and Secretariat, could have been in this race, if they had been much YOUNGER, the race would have sold out, and a BILLION people would have watched on T.V. You are right, most horses do not run after (3) Years. But, The Bid, was sensational in his 4th Year (1980), and I think that (1941) Triple Crown Winner, "Whirlaway," and (1948) Triple Crown Winner, "Citation," raced in their 4th. Year, and maybe their 5th. Year, I am not sure. I think that I saw on a program, where Ben Jones, who owned Whirlaway, and Citation, and the prestigious Calumet Farm, his Wife told him to stop racing these horses, past their 3rd. Year. Ben Jones, was trying to make as much money as he could, but he did LOVE his horses, and of course, CARED very much for their health, but he knew that they had the TALENT to run past their 3rd. Year. But, Mr. Jones' wife said, that the horses had already WON the Triple Crown, so there was nothing else to prove. Plus, back in those very EARLY days of horse racing, it seemed as if it was much EASIER on the racetracks. Back in the 1930's, and 1940's, horses were WINNING the Triple Crown, just like it was another day at the park. But, yes, after Ruffian died in the 1970's, they started to take it much easier on the horses. Ruffian, was only (3) Years old, when she died, and Ruffian, Zenyatta, and Rachel Alexandra, are the BEST "girl" horses, EVER!
@@tracydavis8982 If Slew was infertile, he would have raced until he was 8 or 10 or beyond. Look at John Henry. Assuming all things equal, equal weights, equal health, equal rest, Secretariat would beat any horse. This would be especial true in a mile and a half race. The Bid still has the record for a mile and a quarter, but I'm sure Secretariat would have ran him down. Ruffian had never lost a race until she shattered her leg "Video showed Ruffian was startled by a bird in the infield and took a bad step. " And that was all it took to end the life of the greeatest filly who ever lived. Maybe if Zenyatta hadn't spotted the field 20+ lengths at the beginning of the race, she might have won a second breeders cup classic and been known as the best female horse who had ever lived. Of course, after what happened to Ruffian, she became a legend and you can't compete with a legend. The Belmont is Saturday. If there is a triple crown winner this year, I suppose it'll have an asterix after their name. Hell the Belmont won't even be mile and a half this year. How can it be a true Belmont States if it isn't run in a mile and a half ;-(
No , Affirmed was just better, period. The Jockey Club Gold Cup is run late in the year . Bid as a 4 year old beat a bunch of stiffs, the same group he pounded as a 3 year old ( Flying Paster ! Lol) . Delp even ducked Winters Tale in the Marlboro Cup the following year because he did not like the weight assignments and then bowed out of the Jockey Club , most likely because he felt his horse couldn’t go 1/2 miles .
TR and WR are set and broken constantly. Track conditions on a given day also play a role. Affirmed beat spectacular bid handily in this race and probably could have opened up more if asked . Bid couldn’t get past Affirmed at 1/2 miles and if you watch the race closely he tried to pull even about 5x and pincay never let him get closer than a neck . Affirmed was a great horse who ran against other great horses : Alydar, Exceller , Seattle Slew and your favorite horse. He won more often than not . Slew was probably the best of this group and also would have crushed bid at any distance. Bid beat nothing as a 4 year old and the trainer ducked Winters Tale in the Marlboro Cup , lol. Great horses don’t avoid challenges . Bid beat older horses in the Marlboro cup in 1980 . Then ducked affirmed in the Woodward and went on to lose to him in the JCGC . Affirmed could win at any distance and , to my knowledge, never avoided any other horse.
Not at all, just not the answer you wanted to hear. Delp was wise to steer Bid out to California for most of his 4 year old campaign. The weights he was assigned in his CA stint were very generous. When he came East he was immediately assigned 136lbs for the Marlboro Cup VS 122 for Winters Tale. Delp threw a fit and withdrew him from the race. If you don’t believe me, look it up . What’s really unfortunate is that people will probably be unable to have such debates in the future. It is very doubtful that racing fans will ever see two TC winners face off again, or even a 4 year old TC winner go up against a top younger horse. In this era, Slew, affirmed and Bid would probably never race at 4 .
Seattle Slew beat the gritty and tough Affirmed "2 times", and that shows you what kind of beast of a competitor Seattle Slew was. I'm sure if Slew raced against the great Secretariat in the Kentucky Derby and Preakness, Slew would have won at least one of those. These were the 2 best horses I've seen in my era.
As a well-rested 4-year-old, Slew twice finished ahead of a tired 3-year-old in Affirmed, who was running in the 10 and 11th races of the year. Slew never came close to competing in a single season. He lacked the durability and resilience required to compete that much. As a 3-year-old, Slew never raced against older horses at all, let alone great older ones like Forego. Instead, his losses were limited to horses his own age. Let's not forget that in one of those two races against Affirmed, Slew was himself defeated by another 4-year-old - Exceller. At age 4, Slew had 3 wins against 2 losses in stakes races against other older horses like himself. That isn't exactly a stellar resume. Overall, Affirmed raced much more often, against many more really tough opponents. In 14 of his races, he faced one or more opponents ranked in the top 100 horses of the 20th century. His racing schedule was much more physically demanding than Slew's.
@@lookatvedman9993 And the bottom line is Seattle Slew was never able to defeat Dr. Patches and Spectacular Bid was never able to defeat Affirmed and Secretariat was never able to defeat Prove Out. Those are all "bottom lines".
@@sl-rt5kv like I said, bottom line he never beat the slew. Got ran out in the Marlboro and couldn’t keep up with slew in the jcgc. Excuses excuses. The horse was simply outclassed. Let it go
@@lookatvedman9993 I never said that Affirmed wasn't :outclassed" in his races against Seattle Slew. I should also point out that in one of those races another 4-year old, Exceller, "outclassed" both Seattle Slew and Affirmed. Additionally, J.O. Tobin "outclassed" Seattle Slew in the Swaps Stakes running 1 1/4 miles considerably faster than Slew ever did. As you said, no excuses. No subjectivity, Just the facts.
I WAS AT THE TRACK FOR SLEW'S 3 YR OLD DEBUT AND I REMEMBER THE FIRST FLASH OF THE TOTE BOARD SHOWED $20,000 BET ON HIM WELL. A YOUNG KID, I PUT $80 TO PLACE. HE WON BY 7 LENGTHS AND I GOT BACK A TOTAL OF $88. HE THEN WON THE FLA. DERBY AND THE REST IS HISTORY.
I MUST NOT LET TIME BYPASS A GOOD HORSE OUT OF CALDER BACK INTHE 70's. LOCAL HORSE PROUD & BOLD WAS IN A ROUTE RACE ,124lbs vs FOREGO, 126LBS. AND JUST LOSS BY A NECK TO THE HORSEOFTHEYEAR.
ANOTHER CALDER HORSE WHO DEMOLISHED ALL HIS CALDER FOES WAS THE SPRINTER "SMILE". ITS A SHAME HE WAS SO MISMANAGED AS HE HAD GREATNESS IN HIS VEINS WINNING THE BREEDERS SPRINT RACE THE YEAR AFTER LOSING IT BY A NECK. SMILE WAS A GREAT ONE OUT OF CALDER RACE COURSE
Thomas Petty here again . I want to make a correction on SEATTLE SLEW.He went on to win the Flamingo , not the Fla. Derby.How does Citation beat him into THE MAKE believe Derby when Citation lost to Noor 4 times.
I made an error. Seattle Slew went on to win the Flamingo Stakes, not the Fla. Derby , and the rest is history. My big three: Secretariat Seattle Slew Zenyatta ...............Thomas Petty
A quick thought on Affirmed horses at different ages are really different runners, but has anyone ever wondered what would happen had Affirmed ran in his prime against Secretariat in his prime and they were close would Affirmed let Secretariat blow by him, I don't see it.
+jack brandt I know about those races, and if you have read my other comments you would know that they only horse that I think is better than SS was Secretariat Affirmed has incredible heart and he showed it when he beat spectacular bid but he was not the horse that Slew was I don't care what anyone says, in fact an argument could be made that there are not 5 horses in the history of the sport better than the Slew.
Gee Eric. This race was on a .04 variant with a much slower pace than Bid Red had in the Belmont & Secretariat was carrying 5 lbs.more. Both ran the last quarter in 25 seconds flat. Never a whip laid to Secretariat. Both Affirmed & the Bid were whipped to hell & back. Let Affirmed run the pace Secretariat did in which he couldn't & see what his last quarter time would be. But Affirmed was one hell of a horse in my book.
rscarbro100 Yes they were great horses. The Slew was indeed great and I know that Affirmed was not the horse that Secretariat was but in front it would have taken a great effort for any horse to pass him is all I meant.
Tresa Lamb Yeah , Affirmed was great not quite as great as these other two. But his duel with Alydar was something to behold especially that Belmont they ran. As for the Belmont that Sec ran in my mind it was the greatest performance by a horse at that distance. Breathtaking is how I would call it. A question for a while there it seemed like we would not get another triple crown winner. There was some funny stuff going on, but do you think that the closeness of the three races and the distance of the third race is it asking too much of these animals?
Tresa Lamb I was a big fan of one Smarty Jones and he just died in that loooong stretch at Belmont. He too I thought had blood lines from Sec. And I love the Slew. I know you are a big fan of his he wss a beautiful black horse.
Bid only tried 12 furlongs 2 times...He obviously had issues in the Belmont with the Pace and foot injury...This was only the 2nd time he tried 12 Furlongs and he had an All Time Great Horse in front of him who was also setting SLOW fractions...Bid still managed to be competitive and finish a close 2nd...This race clearly showed 12 Furlongs was not an issue...Had Affirmed not ran in this race Bid would have Won and nobody would be talking about him having distance issues...Now if an inferior Horse beat him in this race that would be different...But this was Affirmed...Perhaps 12 Furlongs was not Bids BEST distance but he certainly could handle this distance
Two of the all time greats in this edition of the JCGC, Affirmed was too mature for The Bid here, but The Bid would go on to have a greater overall career.
@@frankcapo2669 Agreed , Bid beat nothing as a 4 year old and the trainer still ducked out of the Marlboro Cup because he was assigned 136lbs. Bids track records will eventually be surpassed, but Affirmed won the Triple Crown and is a permanent part of horse racing history. Moreover, he had to beat a horse (Alydar) , who was almost his equal to earn his TC . He also faced other great horses in the aforementioned Alydar, Exceller and Seattle Slew. Slew May have been the best of this group IMO . Affirmed also beat the bid and I believe the results would have been the same the following year if Affirmed raced at 5 . The margin of victory would probably have been larger . Affirmed was going easily in the JCGC , bid was all out . Bid faced two big challenges in his racing career and failed both. The first was the Belmont in which Franklin rode him very aggressively, like the horse was secretariat , and he tired badly . The second was when he faced Affirmed and lost . Delp bragged that his horse would kick Affirmed’s ass , lol, but it didn’t turn out that way . A match race would have even been worse for the Bid and they are lucky it didn’t happen . When asked about the possibility, Pincay had a huge smile on his face and said he thought it was a great idea.
@@johnniepalacios9381 Incorrect. Secretariat lost to 4yo Onion in the Whitney, which was his first race against older horses. Then after that, Secretariat lost in the Woodward Stakes to 4yo Prove Out. Prove Out carried 7 more pounds than Red, and still beat him by 5 lengths. He was 3 for 5 against older horses.
Affirmed enjoyed historically slow fractions up front during this race...Bid made multiple moves into this snail pace and backed off only to come again at the end and not lose by much...Affirmed was also older than Bid...Bid was Best in this race in my opinion in a loss...ANY kind of realistic pace and he Wins
Affirmed was better as the results here show. He raced against far better competition and won more often than not . Affirmed always would have been one year older than the Bid , that’s hardly the horses fault . I believe at 5, Affirmed still would have beaten Bid . Especially at 1 1/2 miles. Classic distance, I would still take affirmed. Bid beat nothing as a 4 year old . People often forget that Alydar was an excellent horse too, not sure he lost , other than to Affirmed. Bid has no such competition at 4 and the horses he beat (Flying Paster and Glorious Song - to name a few) , were no where near the caliber of Alydar, Affirmed or even in the same zip code as Seattle Slew. If Bid had raced on the East Coast early in his 4 year old campaign , he would not have set any track records and surely would have lost. I don’t think the other horses would have beaten him as much as the weight. People forget that Bid was assigned 136lbs by the racing secretary at Belmont for the Marlboro Cup- Delp was furious and pulled him from the race . Weight can defeat the best of horses .
fractions were historically slow...Affirmed had it all his own way during this race...He was a Top level horse and Bids elder and when you give a Horse like this these slow fractions to work with it is near impossible to catch him
Jeff Snell the bid tried three times to pass and couldn’t. But I loved affirmed and the Bid. I used to go watch the Bid Affirmed and John Henry. Bids class at Santa Anita Flying Paster with Pierce on him always tried but could never get there and Super moment never came to be. I just loved affirms toughness. In that racc the Bid had 3 chances and was turned away 3?times. You won’t see me knocking Spectacular Bid. I just loved affirmed. Much more strategic races back then and Jockeys were a heck of a lot better. The used to usually have a rabbit in those races. The gray horse who always went out from . what was his name? Affirmed and Alydar.
@@robertarnold7643 Yes Affirmed had so much horse in the tank during those fractions ...My point is that i would not claim Affirmed was the better Horse based off this race
Jeff Snell you prefer the bid. I prefer Affirmed. I’m not ever going to bad mouth Spectacular Bid. Yes 1 year difference in age and maturity is huge. Seattle Slew and affirmed. I have great memories of those horses and those days. In horse racing he who controls the pace controls the outcome. Like football. I loved horses when set down the in the stretch and hook up with another show that will to win. Racing pace, traffic, jockeys judgement going wide on first and far turn, so much plays in. The Bid was a tough tough great horse. Had he won the Triple Crown people would have talked about him a lot more. I forget what race at Santa Anita. Flying Paster probably ran his best race. But the bid was just too much horse. Unfortunately sometimes we just don’t get to run that race or play that game again. So props to Spectacular Bid.
Jeff Snell One of two things in that race is either The bid should have pressed affirmed harder down the backstretch or Affirmed was just better. It should have been a match race. I really didn’t see the Bid put push affirmed. I did see him get denied at every attempt to do so. If is the biggest word in the dictionary. He never really challenge the pace. He had opportunity but didn’t ever come up along side Affirmed. That may have been jockey judgement.
@11SEXMACHINE… Don’t feel bad Alydar was a great sire of racehorses . He sired Hall of Famer Easy Goer and Alysheeba just to name a couple also many stakes winners . If he wasn’t killed by those despicable owners he would have sired many more .
Barrera decide against 133 for Affirmed against 126 for Bid. Suggest you research Affirmeds 4 YO career before making a comment that he did not stand a chance at 9 furlongs. At 3YO ,an ailing Affirmed ran 1:46 and 2/5ths at 9 furlongs. Affirmed, like the Bid was a better and stronger horse at 4YO. a 3YO Bid had no chance at any distance against a 4YO Affirmed. Further, Shoe had no choice but to let Affirmed set the pace. He knew what happened in the Belmont when Bid got cooked.
Don't think an excellent Affirmed would have beaten The Bid when Bid was 4-years old. That one extra year, with few exceptions(See Secretariat), means a great deal for male horses. The Bid's 4-year old season was as good as any horse in history with two world and a couple of track records to his credit. Remember that Affirmed lost to Slew when Affirmed was a 3-year old.
@@sl-rt5kv Will not argue about Citation, Fager or Kelso, who are among the greatest horses of all time. We will never know if Bid could have beaten Affirmed at 1 1/2 miles, as they never raced against each other at that distance. Affirmed was a wonderful horse and nothing I am saying is meant to denigrate him or his wonderful accomplishments; however, Bid was an absolute freight train as a four year old-some horses mature greatly during the interim between their three and four year old seasons-and Bid was one of them. Too, he beat a damned good horse in Flying Paster three straight times while setting his records out west. Upon returning east, not a single horse, not one, would even run against him in the Woodward. He literally galloped a 2:02 so I have few doubts that the 4-year old Bid could have handled 1 1/2 miles. Remember how badly Seattle Slew beat Affirmed when Affirmed was a 3-year old? Forego was another who matured into a truly great horse between three and four, and grew so strong that he is probably the greatest handicap horse from 7 F-2 miles in racing history. These are all fun arguments and perhaps one day in racing heaven, we can race these great ones against one another! (All at 4-years old!)
Hey 2 great horses an a great race but i still feel after watching horse racing since 1970 slew the second best horse i ve ever seem ,but hey affirm watch a great horse to
Affirmed won this amazing race, but the better horse is Spectacular Bid, let's remember at the time Affirmed had run the second fastest Belmont Stakes. Probably on that racetrack and at that distance only two horses were capable of beating him, Secretariat and EasyGoer. Having said that Affirmed was a true champion!!!
From a number standpoint, Beyers that is, Spectacular Bid was a consistently faster horse than Affirmed...please look it up..do your homework, I don't talk out my rear end. The Bid had other than Secretariat consistent Beyers of 115 or higher, his 4 year old career is said to be one of the greatest if not the greatest. I do agree with you that Affirmed face stiffer competition due to Alydar but that doesn't diminish Bid's greatness. Prove Out was a very good horse and his time is legit but Easy Goer's time on a non particular fast racetrack that day(the Belmont) compared to Secretariat time on a lightning fast track is remarkable also considering that Easy Goer ran 4 wide the entire race until the turn of the race, his ragozin number is identical to Secretariat's of 0 due to these numbers considering trip and surface, taking all that in to consideration he would have ran a 2:25 and possibly sub 2:25 and beaten only 6 lengths(by Secretariat) as per Andrew Beyer and Mister Ragozin.. not me..
Its okay you don't have to take Beyers and Ragozin numbers, that is you liberty of Opinion but do know that these numbers do evaluate capacity of horses, we also have trakus now and other factors which may determine how horses run. you may say that the sand was deeper or not as deep that is always going to be an argument, I believe Affirmed or Seattle Slew wasn't as fast as the Bid and I have given you my evidence with beyers and times.You have the right to your opinion. I don't think weight would have matter to much on Bid and Horses like Easy Goer, they were built differently..
This is were you are totally wrong, I have provided evidence, that you choose to ignore the beyers and times is your opinion and again your opinion that people don't use these numbers is another atrocity to the intellect of people, when people buy the DRF the first or one of the first things you look at is beyers plus other set of items that can be number to a million... but Spectacular Bid ran a faster time, period end of statement whether you want to justify the weight that in no way is Spectacular Bid's fault. Thanks for the newton's law lesson but horses that weight 1200 or more in the case like Easy Goer who probably weighed much more than that and was built like a "Sean Taylor" they can carry more weight and at high speeds, of course if you put a 175 pound person that is a different story...like anything we can debate this until we are blue..
lets take something simple too, if a horse runs a beyer of 120 and he runs against one of 89 chances are the 120 will be faster than the other that has an 89 furthermore if he continues to run those type of numbers and his competition doesn't chances are he is faster, of course many factors can influence that not happening, weather, distance,jockeys, the horse not feeling good the morning of the race, stumbling, the change of strategy so like in life it is not a certainty..
Nobody mentions the fact that this a rare bad ride by Shoemaker. Bid might have pulled it off with a better ride. Indecision around first turn caused the Bid to lose valuable lengths. Then goes slightly wide around far turn .
Kevin Small Kevin, look at Shoemaker's ride carefully and the "Bids" position entering first turn. You cannot pull back 3 lengths on a horse like Affirmed and expect to make it up in stretch . If your logic was played out in all races then all rail horses should win. We know they don't. The momentum on a banked turn for outside horses help horses on outside. These factors didn't play a part in this race. Affirmed won first because he was a 4yr. old, secondly he got a better trip because he usually is in front. They came home in 25 last quarter. Seattle Slew was faster in last quarter. The Slew had unbelievable SUSTAINABLE speed. We'll never see a decade like the 70's again. Glad I was around to see them all.
Affirmed was better at 4 than Spectacular Bid was at 3. Seattle Slew and Exceller were better at 4 than Affirmed was at 3. Spectacular Bid at 4 was ridiculous. The only other horse I can remember with a comparable season was Cigar in '95.
Swaps had a tremendous 4YO season in 1956. Like Bid, most was on the CA circuit. Affirmed went 7-1-1 at 4YO and never lost once they got Cauthen off the horse.
Kelso set a World record on dirt for 2 miles and an American track record on grass at a mile and one half in a span of eleven days. This was as a seven year old that was past his prime!
I've read Dr. Fager's four-year-old campaign called the best single year in American racing, though at least challenged by Bid at 4. Fager remains the only horse to win four championships in a single year: Horse of the Year, older male, sprinter, turf horse. "Never carrying less than 130 pounds, Dr. Fager won seven of eight starts, set a world record for the mile and broke the American record for seven furlongs." [Wikipedia]
@@marcosponce960 it was the end of the season and Bid close to being a 4 year old. It isn't fair that Bid was rated above Affirmed with an inferior resume and being beaten head to head.
Frank J Altieri Bid doesn’t have an inferior resume. Bid was 26 for 30. Affirmed was 22 for 29. Bid more consistent. Bid at 4 had 4 track records and a world record of 1:57 4/5 for a mile and a quarter, 4/5 faster than affirmed’s track record. Affirmed’s only track record. Spectacular bid had 8 total track records. So a horse called “radar ahead” beat affirmed twice in 1979? Does that mean he’s better than affirmed?
Who would win this race at a mile and quarter, Affirmed, Seattle Slew, Man of War, Citation,Secretariat, War Admiral, Smarty Jones, Sunday Silence , John Henry , Ruffian not a bad field? that would be A great race. If some how they could all be in there primes maybe at four years old, I know some were not even racing at that age but purest say that a horse is at his prime at 4 or 5.
Hard to say since not all of them raced as four year olds, but if they had and had kept or improved upon their 3 year old forms then probably either Man O' War or Secretariat would have won. Man O' War is difficult to compare to other great horses because his owner didn't care about setting records, and so he rarely ever ran at his top speed: he ran only as fast as was required to win. But he had an enormous stride and when he did run well, he ran VERY well. Secretariat on the other hand ran hard on several occasions, and set great records, so he would also be a possibility to win. The others, I don't think so. Smarty Jones and Sunday Silence shouldn't even be in that field.
***** You are probably right about those last two Smarty and Sunday Silence but they are my personal Favorites. And don't underestimate Smarty Jones he was a bad ride away from winning the Triple Crown.
Eric Day I know he did. But he isn't nearly as talented as the other horses on that list, regardless. Maybe put Native Dancer and of course, Spectacular Bid (you left him out) on the list.
***** I am one of those people who thinks that Spec. Bid was big time overrated, one last thing about Smarty he was undefeated going into the Belmont and he is my personal favorite, I will give you that there are more talented horses that I could have put in but I went with my home town choice, so kill me, by the way Seattle Slew would be right there with the big two of Secretariat, Man of War.
Eric Day Spectacular Bid set multiple track records and a world record (1:57 4/5 at a 1 1/4 on dirt), won the Grade I Woodward Stakes in a walkover because no one else dared to face him (even horses like Secretariat and Seattle Slew were not considered so terrifying that nobody would dare face them in a Grade I race), and carried 130 pounds or more on multiple occasions. To not consider him one of the greatest horses of all time would be a huge error. I also think that he was overrated, but that doesn't mean that he wasn't great. He WAS an exceptional horse, he just wasn't invincible like some people like to claim.
4 year old Slew was better than 3 year old Affirmed and 3 year old Spectacular Bid If they're all 4 years old it's probably a 3 way coin flip Stick in a 3 year old Secretariat and it's a 4 way coin flip It was a great era for horse racing.
Bid made about 3 separate runs at the front during some of the slowest fractions you will ever see during this race..While Affirmed had the HUGE advantage setting these snail fractions..Bid only losing this race by such a small margin absolutely shows me he was the BEST horse in this race
How do you come to that conclusion? Bid was pretty close to Affirmed throughout the race. After a pedestrian first six furlongs in 1:13, the fact that he couldn't come home in better than 1:14 and change for the final six furlongs to win this race tells me that he wasn't the best horse.
@@richd3044 Yes but Bid used up energy during the race by making multiple moves towards that lead...Affirmed was relaxed and not used 1 bit on the lead
*Affirmed couldn't even run with Slew* Using that line of reasoning Seattle Slew couldn't even run with Exceller, Dr. Patches, Text, Affiliate, and J.O. Tobin on the days he lost to those horses. It's also worth noting that on the days that Slew lost to those horses, he was running against horses his own age. He wasn't a 3-year old losing to great older horses, as was the case with Affirmed when competing against great 4-year olds like Exceller and Slew. Indeed, Slew didn't even compete against mediocre older horses as a 3-year old, let alone great ones like Forego who was still racing at that time.
affirmed overrated,obviously you no nothing about horse racing,He had the biggest heart of any racehorse with maybe the exception of seabiscuit.His stretch runs were epic and never gave an inch. The horses of todays era couldnt hold his shoes...spectacular bid had is shot and you see what happened.Thats why there hasn't been a tcw since...California chrome will lose like the rest of them....There not built like affirmed anymore!!!!!!!!
seattle slew (4) beat affirmed (3). affirmed (4) beat the bid (3). bottom line most of the time a great four year old will beat a great three year old.
There's a BIG difference physically between a 4-year-old and a 3-year-old racehorse. The fact that a 3-year-old Spectacular Bid only lost to a 4-year-old Triple Crown-winning Affirmed by ONE length is another reason why I have The Bid ranked only behind Secretariat as the G.O.A.T.!
It's an apples vs. oranges comparison. Affirmed competed against much tougher opponents overall than Bid did. Affirmed competed in 14 races against horses ranked in the top 100 horses of the 20th century whereas Bid only competed in 1 horse of that caliber. It's also an apples-vs-oranges comparison comparing Bid to horses like Forego, Dr. Fager, Citation, Kelso, Round Table and many more. Each of those horses accomplished things that Bid never did and very likely never could.
@@sl-rt5kv Your apples to oranges comparisons are ridiculous. You obviously know NOTHING about Spectacular Bid's history. Flying Paster, General Assembly, and Golden Act were ALL great racehorses who provided The Bid with PLENTY of competition, in 1979 AND 1980. Other than Alydar, what other racehorse did Affirmed have to beat in 1978? As for your other comparisons, Dr. Fager was a miler. Forego and Kelso did not become notable until they became handicap horses. Citation and Round Table were from a completely era of horseracing. How many track records and stakes records did The Bid set? How many track records and stakes records did Affirmed set? Spectacular Bid won 26 of his 30 races. Affirmed won 22 of his 29 races. I am a big Affirmed fan too, but your trashing of Spectacular Bid shows your lack of overall horseracing knowledge.
@@TheProfessorOfLife You are missing the point. My claim that comparisons between great horses are apples-vs-oranges comparisons is not ridiculous because that is what they are. That’s why, unlike you, I never claim that any great horses like Bid, Citation, Kelso, Dr. Fager, Secretariat, Affirmed, Seattle Slew, Forego, Round Table etc. are “better“ than any of the others. Flying Paster, General Assembly, and Golden Act were excellent horses, but none of them were Hall of Famer’s and they are absolutely not ranked in Bloodhorse’s top 100 horses of the 20th century. In fact, most people would consider Affirmed’s adversaries in 14 races - Seattle Slew, Alydar, Exceller, and Spectacular Bid himself - to be more formidable opponents than those 3 competitors of Bid who you cite. As an aside, Affirmed did win the triple crown competing against Alydar while Bid failed to do so against lesser opponents. Bid may have run 1 1/4 miles 0.6 seconds faster than Affirmed, but he also carried 6 pounds less than Affirmed when he did it. Another apples-vs.oranges comparison. You don't know that Bid was “better” than Affirmed. Your characterization of Dr. Fager as just “a miler” ignores the fact that most of the races he ran at ages 3 and 4 were over one mile. Fager never got the chance to compete at 1 ¼ miles on speedy West Coast tracks the way Bid did, but he did run that distance in under 2 minutes on three separate occasions on slower East Coast courses. He did this once as a three-year old and twice at age 4, carrying 132 and 135 pounds, respectively. Bid never came close to running 1 ¼ miles in under 2 minutes on East Coast tracks and only finished under 2 minutes once on a fast west coast track. Bid only carried 126 pounds when he set his world record. This brings up another point of difference between Fager and Bid. As 4-year olds, Dr. Fager carried an _average_ of 4 1/2 pounds more per race than what Spectacular Bid carried. That’s the kind of weight differential that older horses are commonly assigned when competing against 3-year olds. In 1980 Bid did have a chance to run against Winter’s Tale, probably the hottest horse in the nation besides Bid at the time, in the Marlboro Cup. However, after Bid got assigned 136 pounds, they scratched him from the race. Bid was definitely not the second coming of Forego or Dr. Fager when it came to carrying huge imposts to victory against the best horses. It’s also worth noting that as a 4-year old Dr. Fager won all 4 championships: Horse of the Year, Champion Grass Horse, Champion Male Handicap horse, and champion Sprinter. That’s the only time any horse ever won all 4 championships in a single season. You don't know that Bid was better than Dr. Fager. Your claim that Kelso didn’t become notable until he was a handicap horse is false. In fact, he won the first of his 5 consecutive Horse of the Year championships at age 3. He was also named Champion 3-year old that year. Also at age 3, Kelso won the first of his 5 consecutive Jockey Club Gold Cups, smashing the world record for 2 miles. In that race the younger Kelso defeated hall of fame older horse, Bald Eagle. Kelso would go on to break his own 2-mile world record two more times in his subsequent JCGC wins. He also set a world record for 1 1/2 miles on grass of 2:23.8. That's a full second faster than Secretariat ran that distance on grass. By contrast, Bid never won a race at any distance greater than 1 1/4 miles. Kelso also was name Champion Older Male Horse for 4 consecutive years. You don't know that Bid was better than Kelso. Discounting the achievements of Round Table and Citation simply because they competed 20 years and 28 years, respectively before Bid is illogical. You could just as easily apply the same “reasoning” to discount the achievements of Bid because he raced 35 years before American Pharoah or 25 years before Ghostzapper. In fact, Round Table won 34 races in the same time frame that Bid won 26. Altogether Round Table won 43 races in 4 years and carried between 130 and 136 pounds to victory 17 times. There is no reason to believe that Bid had the talent required to win 43 races in four years. Round Table also set 14 track, US, and world records and ran 1 ¼ miles in under 2 minutes on five separate occasions. Bid ran 1 ¼ miles under two minutes just once. Many people consider Round Table to be the greatest grass horse of all time even though he was also a great dirt horse. I see no evidence that Bid was good on grass. You don’t know that Bid was “better” than Round Table. Finally, Citation won the triple crown whereas Bid did not. Citation also defeated older hall of fame older horses as a 3-year old, something Bid did not do. He also won 16 races in a row, something that Bid never did. Furthermore, Citation had already won 27 times by the conclusion of his 3-year old season. That is is more victories than Bid achieved in his career. You don't know that Bid was better than Citation.
@@sl-rt5kv You're an INCREDIBLE "back-tracker". All you're doing is embarrassing yourself, by first DENYING many of the EARLIER points you tried to make, THEN providing meaningless statistics that seemingly SUPPORT your earlier points! Do you live in some sort of parallel universe? How old are you? Mid-teens, perhaps? "Casual" horseracing fans like you PRETEND to be "experts" by using your Wikipedia skills to give everybody else the appearance that you actually know what you're talking about. Your pathological hatred of Spectacular Bid is very strange, at best. I'll bet you also believe that Man o' War is better than Secretariat, too. Funny, and sad, at the same time. Off you go, youngster. Let the REAL horseracing people talk.
@@TheProfessorOfLife *How many track records and stakes records did The Bid set* If setting records is the measure of a horse, Swaps would be ranked ahead of Spectacular Bid. Swaps set 5 world records at 5 different distances in a single season. One of those world records still stands today, 68 years later. Swaps carried 130 pounds when setting four of those world records whereas Bid only carried 126 when he set his lone world record. It's also interesting to speculate on how fast Swaps might have run if they didn't have the brakes on in the later stages of so many of his record setting races. The official comment line in four of his record breaking races reads" "Eased final 16th", "Never to a drive, Eased up", "Eased up late", "Eased final stages" etc.
Affirmed up near and on the lead had such a HUGE advantage in this race with how SNAIL SLOW the fractions were...Spectacular Bid made 3 different moves at the leaders during this race and backed off...Yet he still only narrowly lost at the wire...Spectacular Bid was the BEST horse in this race even though he did not win
Not sure why you post the same point several times on this video. Bid was right on his flank almost the entire race, excellent trip even if not perfect, and didn't have enough to overtake Affirmed at ANY point in the race in spite of the slow fractions. Affirmed clearly the better horse this day.
@@frankcapo2669 Bid made several Moves toward that pace and backed off...You obviously are clueless about this Sport if you think the Pace was irrelevant so no sense debating with you...Be well sir
@@joechrow8341 Joe you have repeatedly said in other posts that Bid was clearly the better horse in that race, i do not see that. Yes pace makes race but if you know anything about Affirmed then you would know this is a typical Affirmed type race, they could have went around the track one more time and Bid was never going to be in front of Affirmed on that day.
Letting an All Time Great Horse Like Affirmed Dictate HISTORIC SNAIL SLOW Fractions up Front is Asking to Get Beat...Bid Made Multiple Moves into This Obscene Slow Pace Backed off and Still Came Again For 2nd Only Missing by a Length....Affirmed Was Also a 4 Year Old Here...Both Horses are Bonafide All Time Greats But This Race Did Not Show Me Which Horse Was Better
@@Brick-so1ig Certainly context matters and the context is different for every great horse. Affirmed competed in 14 races against opponents ranked in the top 100 horses of the 20th century whereas Spectacular Bid competed in 1 race against horses of that caliber. Spectacular Bid won 26 races vs 22 for Affirmed. Neither Affirmed or Spectacular Bid carried the kind of imposts that horses like Forego, Dr. Fager, or Round Table did. For example,. as four-year olds, Dr. Fager carried an average of 4 1/2 pounds more per race than Spectacular Bid did. That's the kind of weight differential that 4-year olds are assigned when competing against 3-year olds. Round Table won 43 races in four years of racing. I see no evidence that Affirmed, Spectacular Bid, Seattle Slew, Forego, Dr. Fager, Secretariat Kelso etc. had the talent required to win anything close to that many races in such a short time frame. Starting as a 3 year old, Kelso won the Jockey Club Gold Cup in world record time in the first of his 5 consecutive victories in this race. He would go on to break his own world record in 2 of his 4 subsequent JCGC's. He owned the 2-miles distance and the JCGC like no other horse ever owned any other distance or race in history. And so on....
That's rather like saying that Seattle Slew was a great horse, but could not beat Dr. Patches and Secretariat was a great horse but could not beat Prove Out. Also, in one of the two races when the 4-year old Slew finished ahead of the 3-year old Affirmed, Slew was himself defeated by another 4-year old - Exceller. Seattle Slew's record as a 4-year old in stakes races was 3 wins against 2 defeats. That's not exactly an outstanding resume for a 4-year old.
Was anyone saying that Spectacular Bid is a better horse than Affirmed, you have got to be blind. There are not seven horses all time that are better than Affirmed.
+Kevin Small Incorrect. Affirmed carried 126 pounds in this race, not 132 pounds. Now I know that Affirmed is your favorite, but let's not get carried away. Affirmed never carried more than 126 pounds as a 3 year old, and in a 29 race career he carried more than 126 pounds a total of 4 times, all as a 4 year old. You just love giving Secretariat flack, don't you? Yes, he didn't carry weight as a 3 year old, neither did Affirmed, Seattle Slew, Spectacular Bid, Kelso, Citation, American Pharoah, I could go on but I think you get the picture.
+Reane Vermaas Kudos my friend you are clearly a man who follows the sport and for a while it seems too, I don't know that triple crown that Affirmed won was just out of sight, especially the Belmont, which I think was probably the best Belmont ever, but I must Admit I have just recently and I am talking the past thirty years, taken a liking too the sport, and since I have been watching Affirmed is right there with the greats, he just would not let horses past him, yes we know what SS did to him and a lot of other horses as well, but Slew was older and a more mature horse when they met, plus the fact that Slew was a better horse, but I tip my cap to you you know the sport.
jack brandt Sorry, but if you think invasor or tiznow could beat affirmed then you’re delusional! Invasor won the breeders cup classic at 4 slower than affirmed won the Kentucky derby at 3! Affirmed ran a mile and an eighth at three at Saratoga over a second faster than invasor at 4! This is seriously one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever heard! And tiznow only won 8 out of 15 races! Come on man! Tiznow won the Santa Anita handicap in 2001 about 3 seconds slower than affirmed did in 1979! 2:01.55 compared to 1:58 3/5! That’s about 15 lengths! That doesn’t even factor in drugs! No horse in the 2000s could even come close to affirmed! Before you call other people on “ignorant comments,” examine yourself. Because your comment is pure stupidity!
Eric Day I strongly disagree with your number 5. Alysheba, like Sunday Silence, Big Brown and several other Triple Crown hopefuls required the use of drugs (Lasix and/or Bute in Alysheba's case) in order to win. That's likely why they failed the Triple Crown - the Kentucky Derby and Preakness Stakes permits drug use, but the Belmont Stakes does not. So these frauds pump themselves full of Lasix, Bute and (in Big Brown's case) outright steroids for the Derby and Preakness in order to win, then proceed to lose in the Belmont when forced to run without drugs, because it turns out they aren't actually that talented naturally. When prevented from using drugs, 'Sheba got his tail handed to him by Bet Twice. I suspect that would have been the outcome in their other meetings too if Alysheba hadn't been permitted to use drugs. I don't think he was nearly as great naturally as he appeared to be when on drugs. No way would I consider him the fifth greatest modern American horse.
+Eric Day Obviously these are all opinions, but I would rank them according to the length of the race. Slew and big Red were mile and half horses that could challenge at any distance. The Bid was absolutely fearsome between 7 fur and a mile and a quarter, but apparently couldn't handle longer distances (lost twice at a mile and a half). Although he won the Belmont (in a slow time), I doubt Affirmed, a very good horse, could match up with the Bid at less than a mile and a half. Depending on how you define modern era, at a mile and a quarter you also have to include Dr Fager (too old?), Ghost Zapper, Cigar (maybe), Ruffian, Sham, and several others. Yeah, I love Holy Bull at that distance as well. People get so emotional when discussing horses, but we all have our opinions! There are so many great ones, that on any given day...
Mike Blast I'm not sure it can really be said that Spectacular Bid couldn't handle a mile and a half: the first time he tried it he was ridden poorly by an inexperienced jockey, and the second time he tried it he was a 3 year old going up against a 4 year old Triple Crown winner. But you're right; it's all just subjective. Everyone has their own opinions.
All I know is that the Bid still holds the record for a mile and a quarter, and never lost between 7 furlongs and a mile and a quarter. Yeah, we'll never know, but having watched both of them race, I find it hard to believe Affirmed would have prevailed on their best days.
Affirmed had everything his own way this race..Bid made "multiple" moves during this race during a snail fractions..Still ran tremendous..Spectacular Bid was the better horse in this race and lost due to circumstances
The "circumstance" that caused Bid to lose this race was that he did not run fast enough to win it. Bid was the "better" horse in this race? Really? Why don't you prove it?
Better at what? Affirmed and Bid both won a lot more big races than Slew. Why? Because they could. Slew couldn't. Sure, Slew twice defeated Affirmed as a well-rested 4-year old running against a 3-year old competing at the tail end of a long and grueling season. Horses are generally better at age 4 than at 3. That said, Slew still managed to lose one of his races against Affirmed to another 4-year old - Exceller. Slew's record in stakes races as a 4-year old was 3 wins and 2 losses. By contrast at age 4, Affirmed won 6 of 8, while Bid was 9-0. Slew never even competed against older horses when he was a 3-year old, let alone against great older horses like Forego who was still racing at that time.
Affrmed is all time great with a huge heart.
That's why Affirmed won all those stakes races (16?), he was a hard nosed battler, and that was a damn good run by a 3 yr old Sp. Bid - 2 of the greatest horses to ever run in America...or anywhere.
I'l second that emotion!!
Only one horse won 8 grade 1's in a row though.. can you guess who? Love The Bid though, maybe the best ever, Affirmed wasn't to shabby either, plus he was a good sire..
The 1970s was a spectacular decade!! Once in a lifetime! Starting with the great Riva Ridge, then Secretariat, then Little Current, then Seattle Slew, then Affirmed, lastly, The Bid.
I can't name another decade with so many excellent horses. Can You? @@chrisp.9172
@@chrisp.9172 it's too bad we don't cultivate rivalries anymore - horses are retired after 5 races nowadays w/ hardly a chance to race in a few "wars" w/ other tough(er) horses. MONEY CHANGES EVERYTHING. (Thx Cindy Lauper).
@@bishlap Yeah, it seems the breeding is worth to much nowadays, which seems to effect the horses competing in the triple crown. The fillies are still sticking around, there's a few great fillies competing this weekend , that could have been retired. Should be a great race! There's a few exceptions, Chad Browns turf horses seem to compete until they are done. Zenyatta and Beholder raced at 5 and 6 giving us some great races. Even Alysheba stuck around at 5, but those are few and far between.."Time after time", I've thought the same thing
It gives me shivers to see those two legends battling down the stretch.
We will never see two horses that good face each other again. Ever.
Affirmed vs. The Bid!! Wow!! Doesn't get any better!
Two of my all-time favorites. Affirmed was just a tough as nails competitor that won so many close races. The Bid looked like a champion horse every time he raced. Two absolute rock stars!!
One of the great matchups in history. Two legends!
I was 15 when this race took place. For me Affirmed is still my all time favourite American Horse. The one horse that I was convinced would win the Triple Crown was Silver Charm.
LOVE this race. It was great to be an Affirmed fan!
Affirmed at 4 was a monster, a much better horse in my opinion than the 3-year-old version. I love the Bid but not sure he was a true 1 1/2-mile horse, either. As for those who said Affirmed would want no part of a rematch; Affirmed was retired after this race. This was his 29th race.
I couldn't agree more.
Maybe the Bid’s one flaw a mile and a half
Well, the Bid ran at four, and throughout his career won 10 straight races twice. He raced 40 times and won 39, not a bad percentage!!!
@brucerobbins6528 *The Bid actually won 26 out of 30 which is still a great percentage.
Thanks, Of course, you are correct. 26 wins out of 30 with one WR. It was Citation who ran 40 time.@@Greinton940
Awesome race. First time I've ever seen this. Thanks.
Affirmed was a TRUE champion!
Affirmed was one gutsy horse. Always ran hard.
Laffit Pincay Jr, Panama is proud of you. Great ride by Pincay, regards to all my American friends.
This race broke my heart, I'm a huge Bid fan!!!
@horselover The only consolation I could draw was Bid was a younger horse.
I’m also a huge Bid fan. But he’s a 3yo here racing 4yo Affirmed. Bid at 4 was better than Affirmed at 4.
@@razorback9926 Never..
CIPRIANO DE RORE They each won HOY as a 4yo. Affirmed won 7 of 9 races. Bid won 9 of 9 races and broke 5 track records, including the fastest 10f time ever of 1:57.8, a record that still stands 40 years later.
Bid was a great horse but I was an Affirmed fan.
One thing I always wondered, considering the slow fractions, was if Shoemaker gave Affirmed too much respect in the early going. He had to know that giving a champion 49 for the half and 1:13 for 6 furlongs was only going to make Affirmed harder to get by in the stretch. Either way, Affirmed was as tough a horse to pass as there ever was, as this race again shows. Two of the greatest horses, ridden by two of the greatest riders.
I have re-watched several of Affirmed victories, including the Triple Crown, and noticed that every race had a leisurely pace. He used that to his distinct advantage over the slow-starting Alydar.
@@tomault3063 I agree...was a hell of an advantage to have.
Affirmed was in the wrong lead the last half mile-ish. Just a great performance. hard to beat when he was in front.
Affirmed was a warrior. A champion in every sense of the word
Man that Affirmed had guts.
Can't help but throw my favorite race in here...you want to see guts, watch Dr Fager give away 22lbs and still take the lead back from Advocator, no less than 3 times, under a hand ride, in the 1968 UN handicap. That horse would sooner die than lose
@LightningJanitorial...Agree with you 100%!
@jack brandt All the horses were going slow. Affirmed fought off Bid and then Coastal, the Bid again. He was ultra-game in this race.
@@ArtietheArchon Doc is the GOAT.
A lot of truly super horses in the 70s, probably more than any other era. Secretariat, Slew, Affirmed, the Bid, Ruffian, Alydar, Forego, John Henry, Sham...are you kidding me??? On a given day at a given distance, any one of them could win against the other (except for maybe Ruffian, who never trailed in a race until she ran herself to death. Hard to say if she ever would have lost).
vipit.net.au
In a long distance race, Zenyatta would have beaten Ruffian...
I disagree! !
There were some super horses in the 60's and they didn't have the benefit of steroids.
@@marksolomonify, yes, Lady Secret was Horse of the Year, and she was Secretariat's Daughter!!!!🤗
Affirmed was my favorite horse to watch as a teenager next to Ruffian and of course Secretariat. I always rooted for Affirmed because he was never the fastest or the biggest but he had the heart of a champion and he refused to lose. You could tell what kind of a competitor Affirmed was by that classic photo of Affirmed looking Alydar in the eyes as he held him off in the 78 Belmont. A true champion!
Yes, this is why Affirmed was the 1978 TRIPLE CROWN CHAMP!!!
The Affimed and Alydarr races were classic races, just like the Secretariat and Sham races were classic. Unfortantelyi sham was hurt in the Belmont. Shat a shame!!!
@@brucerobbins6528 Really? I've never heard that before.
@@ddland45 It's true. The Belmont was Sham's last race. He fractured a bone on his hind leg. He finished a close second in the other two races. Why do you think he came in dead last in the Belmont?/ He was hurt and his trainer knew it. Before the race he did not look good.
@@brucerobbins6528 Interesting information. I assumed Sham was cooked after that duel with Big Red in the beginning of the race and that's why he came in last. Where did you get this information?
I was I was an Alydar fan, so this was the only time I bet on Affirmed to win! I'll never forget his 3/4 length victory. The following year, Spectacular Bid went undefeated! He was so good, that he had a "walkover", in the Woodward Stakes-nobody showed up to challenge him!!
Yes, Spectacular Bid was FANTASTIC, and he should have Won the 1979 Triple Crown!!!!!
Affirmed always had the graceful champion vs other horses mainly Alydar that was known for being hard charging and tuff. But if you pay attention to the way Affirmed ran he was as tuff as any other horse ever. He would defiantly hold off anybody the whole stretch damn near every time he ran, especially against Alydar. He is one of the hardest grittiest hard charging horses in history, if not the hardest. If he had been a three year old with the immoral one in 73, I really think he had what Sham didn't, that little extra defiance to lose to anyone that would have really given the god himself a real challenge. Alydar was one of the hardest chargers to have ever ran like Zenyata, and Affirmed just ran with him and would hold him off every time but twice. One of those was a disqualification. He never got the recognition of a real tuff runner. It was always he was a medium build, graceful runner. To bad for Allydar though, had he been born one year earlier or later he would have been a triple crown god himself. Kinda like Sham.
affirmed was on his left lead the entire stretch
Affirmed was just playing with the other horses he knew he would win
Great race and Affirmed went to battle down the stretch! Affirmed great champion and Spectacular Bid showed big-time resiliency coming back.
Spectacular bid was a tremendous horse but 1 mile and a half was out of his scope affirmed could run all day long especially with those slow fractions.
I agree with you about The Bid was the best horse never to win the TC (and racing in it). Maybe the closest to him, it was Native Dancer.
great race beetween 2 greats.gran carrera entre 2 de los mejores.
Affirmed and Spectacular Bid are two great horses but my all-time favorite racehorses are Secretariat and Easy Goer! 🏇🏆👍
For all the heart Affirmed showed in his career, Bid was the one who repeatedly fought for position and made courageous efforts in this tremendous race. I love both horses, but Bid is the best I ever saw outside of We-Know-Who.
You must have not watched Settle Slew then
They were both outstanding horses , while Seattle Slew was a Triple Crown winner, In all likely hood Spectacular Bid would have if Delp used a top jockey . Ron Franklin was just a smart alec kid who ran off at the mouth . Bid had a lot of races and owns the World Record for the 1 1/4 mile on dirt still to this day . Both went to stud but Seattle Slew was the better sire by far , siring another great sire AP Indy . They are ranked very close in Blood Horse rankings .
@@boswindle9050Pincay, had he been aboard Affirmed the day Cordero hustled Slew off early, would not have permitted the theft as Steve Cauthen did. Physicality was lacking in Cauthen. NO horse ever finished in front of Affirmed, with Laffit Pincay in the irons.
@@JayAr709 make all the excuses you want. Seattle Slew was just better
It's affirmed, Affirmed is one amazing horse! That dude DOES NOT give up the lead.
Don't forget he's a year older than the Bid and he lost to the Slew who was a year older, they didn't put down the records like the Spectacular
@@marcosponce960, yes, that is true!! Affirmed is a Year older than the Bid, and Affirmed lost to Slew, and Slew was a Year older than Affirmed!! That does make a difference!!
@@tracydavis8982 and the Slew beat affirmed soundly whereas affirmed barely beat the Bid, he deserved Lucien Lauren and Ron turcotte
@@marcosponce960, I agree, Slew was better than Affirmed, that is why he beat him, in a race in 1978! FIRST time in History, that TWO (2) Triple Crown Winners raced against each other! Yes, Affirmed barely beat the Bid! The Bid, SHOULD have Won the Triple Crown in 1979!!🤔 He was so close, and IF the Bid had Won the Triple Crown, we would have had Three (3) Triple Crown Winners in a Row!!! I think back to Seabiscuit, who beat 1937 Triple Crown Winner, War Admiral, in a race that same Year! You know, ALL of these Horses were just AWESOME, and I miss them!🤗 I love ALL of the Triple Crown Winners, and the NON-Triple Crown Winners! I am just amazed at the Athleticism, of these Wonderful Thoroughbreds, starting with 1919 Triple Crown Winner, "Sir Barton," to Present Day!!!!😍🐎
@@marcosponce960, oh yes, I forgot to respond to the end of your Comment. Yes, the Bid should have had Lucien Lauren, and Ron Turcotte! They made a Winner out of the MAGNIFICENT, Secretariat😍, who Won the 1973 Triple Crown!!! But, unfortunately, Ron Turcotte was thrown from a Horse, during a race in 1978!! Because of this, Ron was left Permanently PARALYZED!!! So, Ron and Lucien could not have trained the Bid, in 1979. Plus, by this time, Lucien Lauren would have been too Old to train the Bid!! Also, does anyone remember that Steve Cauthen, who was aboard 1978 Triple Crown Winner, Affirmed, was ONLY (18) Years Old, when he and Affirmed Won the Triple Crown, in 1978? Steve, is the YOUNGEST Jockey, to have ever Won a Triple Crown!!!! Now, back to the Bid. Either way, the Bid was SPECTACULAR, and he was befitting of his Name, the Amazing "Spectacular Bid," gone and NEVER will be forgotten!!!🤗😎🐎
Top four year olds are supposed to beat top 3 year olds. They are more mature, physically and mentally.
This race shows what great horses both Affirmed and Spectacular Bid were. The Bid was probably the best horse never to win the Triple Crown.
4 yo Seattle Slew laughed at 3 yo Affirmed 3 straight times in the Fall series at Belmont the previous winter.
Man O'War, A P Indy, Forego? There are many others.
@@JoeKoOhNo Native Dancer too.
@@JoeKoOhNo They only raced each other twice. He lost to Slew in the Marlboro Cup by three lengths. It should have been treated as a match race but Cauthen let Slew get the lead and as in most match races whichever horse gets the lead wins. Then, in the Jockey Club Gold Cup Affirmed's saddle slipped and he raced uncontrollably instead of letting his stablemate, Life's Hope, duel Slew as planned. Slew still lost the race to a $25K purchase named Exceller who was later killed for his meat in Europe.
Even The Great Secretariat lost two races to older horses after his Triple Crown.
Affirmed's record compared to Slew's shows he was the better racehorse. Affirmed raced 29 times. He won 22 times, was second five times (He raced the great Alydar nine times winning seven. In the Travers he was placed second after being disqualified because Pincay took him to the rail in front of Alydar causing Alydar to take up sharply.) He was third 1 time and out of the money once when his saddle slipped.
Seattle Slew raced 17 times winning 14, second twice and out the money once. He also lost to two older horses after his Triple Crown. As to purse money won, Affirmed earned almost twice as much: $2,393,818. Slew $1,208,726.
Slew had victories over only one great horse, Affirmed. Affirmed had victories over Alydar and Spectacular Bid.
@@vernonfrance2974 that's hilarious. That sounds like the arguments losers make about Alydar and Easy Goer. Slew kicked his ass twice and Exceller beat Affirmed that day also. Go ahead and believe Barrera's BS if it makes you feel better.
This race shows just how great AFFIRMED was, I thought he was beat 3 times in this race, but not once did the Great Affirmed let anybody go ahead of him!
I like short fields, 7 or less horses racing.
In short fields horses very seldom get in any trouble and with that being said, the best horse that day will win the race!
As was the great Affirmed this day!
richard adams Affirmed had the heart of a champion, he was I think and I am no expert but man I cant think of 5 horses that are better. That horse that Seabuiscit beat in the head to head race was huge, I understand his owner was not interested in setting track records and the like, I would have loved to have seen more of that horse , as he was before my time, he I think could have been the greatest of all time, War Admiral or Man of War, which horse am I thinking of?
Eric Day War Admiral was the horse that Seabiscuit defeated in a match race. However the horse that is widely considered to be one of the greatest horses in history, but whose owner did not care about setting records was Man O' War. So you're thinking of both horses.
I really like the sport I don't call myself an expert, but you seem like you know the sport well, and a woman, not to sound like a pig but you know what I mean.
Well you liked Smarty Jones, I was watching his run that year and he was just about there until , well you know what happened in the stretch, As for Slew he was great and a great stud, The game mostly stayed pure but, thought that distance in the Belmont is just brutal, it really tests a hires.
I meant smarty Jones not shorty Jones .
A 4YO Affirmed was slightly better than a 3YO Spectaular Bid. That one year in maturity makes a huge difference.
In the same race a year earlier a 4YO Seattle Slew(2nd by a nose) badly outran a 3YO Affirmed(5th)
Good call always good to put things in perspective
Mr slay, I really think the Bid with turcotte and Lucien would have come out a super horse close to secretariat and swaps
@@marcosponce960, I totally agree!!!
Look at the fractions in this race...Affirmed was aided so much on the lead during these SNAIL fractions
Affirmed needed binoculars to find Exceller and was far behind Slew as well
Affirmed got better though, winning 7 in a row after the 5 race losing streak
Spectacular Bid and Little Bold John are the two greatest race horses in history!
Absurd comment.
bbmtge Really !!!!, some folks should have there keyboards revoked for comments like that.
bbmtge Bens Cat should be mentioned with the all time greats.
@@jojogunn7077 Don't forget Continental Red, either.😉
Affirmed will always be my favorite.
Affirmed, with a field of only four and nobody to pressure him other than SB had a distinct advantage. Shoemaker could've pressed more during 1st half (49s), but a speed duel would have been bad also. SB was more of a stalker.
In any event two of the greatest ever and hard to separate them. You can throw Seattle Slew in there as well. I believe Bloodhorse has them:
SS 9
SB 10
AFFIRMED 11
The bid had a damn huge heart for sure. Speed n stamina ut that was affirmed day
Maybe the best 4 horse field of all time.
Not sure who I am more impressed with. Affirmed's ability to fight back again and again until putting the challenger away, or Spectacular Bid at 3 years old going toe-to-toe with a 4 year old Triple Crown winner.
Just like a year before a great 4 year old (Seattle Slew) beat a great 3 year old (Affirmed) in the Marlboro.
Slew beat him 3 times: Woodward, Marlboro, and Jockey Club
JoeKoOhNo
No, only twice. Affirmed didn’t race in the 1978 Woodward.
Secretariat was, and is, still the absolute king of horse racing. I was only 4 yrs. old when he won the triple crown in 1973, and I wish I was older enough to have watched it live and understand the significance of what he and Turcotte did. The first time I ever watched all three of these races, I was completely blown away. Three top grade races and he set records in each one, all which still stand today. Ever time I watch the Belmont race I get chills because what Big Red did was beyond belief. Just smoked the field. Here's a question for everyone.....Secretariat against Slew at their prime? Secretariat against Affirmed at their prime? Slew beat Affirmed, but Affirmed's mount slipped so it could have been a lot closer race. Spectacular Bid was a great horse, but Affirmed beat him handily. Looking forward to seeing the Belmont today and maybe witnessing history.
+Kevin Small I'd say Alydar was an all time good horse.
Kelso was better
How is it that none of you people mention the Mighty Kelso?
Kelso was better and he raced before they started using steroids.
4yo affirmed won by 1lenght nothing to brag about
Its fun to argue about this stuff but Slew was a year older than Affirmed who was a year older than Bid. They were all three great horses and its impossible to say for sure which was the best.
Remarkable!
2 equal talents doing battle, epic!
What a great horse Affirmed was. Most of his great wins were duels with two or three horses going nose and nose and neck and neck. These kind of races take a lot out of horses. Affirmed always held his ground and gave nothing to the competition. Many horses back up when they are contested like this for more than 6 furlongs or more. These close contests lasted in most cases for a mile or more. He was certainly a great horse.
The three horses I would never bet against on their best day are Secretariat, Kelso, and Doctor. I don't believe any of these horses could ever be intimidated (Kelso and DF without a doubt). Secretariat and Kelso could win at any distance up to two miles (Yes, Big Red never ran two miles, but I have no doubt he could have in resounding fashion), and Doctor Fager up to a mile. Yes he could run a mile and quarter under the right conditions, but it was at the edge if his range and a fast pace could hurt him. At a mile you couldn't touch him even with a rabbit.
Mike Blast
Dr. Fager had two track records at a mile and a quarter pal. He certainly could run over a mile! He won 8 races over a mile in his career!
@@roundtable3501 I love the doctor, and he might have been the fastest horse ever up to a mile. Sure he could run beyond that, the problem was, as I said, he was susceptible to rabbits, which were used against him successfully twice at 1 1/4, his only two real losses after age two. That's probably why he rarely ran more than a mile. If you used rabbits against big red or kelso, you'd only succeed in killing your rabbits.
Mike Blast
Well, first off, 10 out of 22 of his races were over a mile, so I wouldn’t call that “rare.” The main reason why I replied is because I didn’t understand why you were saying Dr. Fager has a distance problem and not Kelso. Kelso struggled at shorter distances more than Dr. Fager did at longer ones. Kelso’s record at distances under a mile was 3 for 9, 33%, with 0 track records. Meanwhile Dr. Fager’s 1 1/4 record was 3 for 5, and the only horses who beat him were two all time greats, Buckpasser and Damascus, who could easily be put in the same league as the 3 you mentioned. Yet in your original post, you only mentioned about the good doctor having a problem at a certain distance. Against Kelso at a distance like 7 furlongs, you wouldn’t need a rabbit or anything. You’d just need a decent sprinter to beat him.
I have read that the Bid lost the bit around the far turn. And it is very apparent when you watch it. Probably lost a good 3 lengths. Not sure if he would have beaten Affirmed anyway on this day. Affirmed was a great horse and may have still responded. Those slow fractions was the catalyst. But what is true... Affirmed wanted no part in any sort of rematch, with what went on to be probably be, history`s greatest galloper!! The Bid never lost again, shattering records on almost every outing. His 157 4/5 still remains the fastest race ever run at the classic distance of a 1 1/4 mile. And he did it, under complete wraps the last 200 yards! Horses don't even run sub 2 minutes anymore. Great to watch 2 titans like these collide. Wish we had that today!! May never see it again. Hell I cant think of a horse that has run in the last decade, that would even hold a candle to Coastal, who ran 3erd in the race above.
Bigrosty44
Was Ronnie on Bid? I'll have to look it up. He was a green rider and very much criticized for some substandard rides...Delp was brutal.
Lol. I just read it was The Shoe. I'm an ex jock and old enough to remember him (I even met him) kind of a sour, unfriendly jerk by the time I met him but he could ride a bit. ;) I'll watch race again and see what happened.
Ok. Affirmed just took him wide. Coastal got through. :( may have been intentional on (I believe Pincay's part? Lol
You don't know that Affirmed wanted no part of a rematch. Affirmed retired later into his 4 year season than Bid did when he retired at age 4. You could just as easily argue that Bid's handlers were afraid to try him again at 1 1/2 miles in the JCGC, against John Henry and Temperance Hill, at age 4 and therefore retired him. We don't know that either. We DO know that Bid wanted no part of Winter's Tale in the Marlboro Cup when Bid got assigned 136 pounds. Bid got scratched. It does not seem that Bid's handlers had the kind of confidence in Bid, that Forego and Dr. Fager's connections had when their horses ran with high weights running against horses at least as good as Winter's Tale (e.g. Fort Marcy, Damascus, Honest Pleasure, Foolish Pleasure)
Secretariat #1 the Bid #2 put the others wherever
Wow, what a Great Race!! Affirmed, just proved why he was the 1978 Triple Crown CHAMP!!😍 Affirmed's Jockey, Steve Cauthen, was ONLY (18) Years Old, when he Won the 1978 Triple Crown, aboard the Great Affirmed!!! I wish that Alydar had been in this Race!!!😍 Alydar had Triple Crown Caliber, but he was born in the Wrong Year!!! That Spectacular Bid, was a Great Horse, and he should have Won the 1979 Triple Crown!😍
Spectacular Bid had no excuse to lose the Belmont. He simply tired. Seattle Slew (who I think is better than Affirmed) didn't tire in the Belmont after a similar trip.
@@michaelcolfin8464, I agree, The Bid, just tired out, or his Jockey did not perform the best. Either way, The Bid, had the immense TALENT, to be a Triple Crown Winner!👍 If The Bid, had won the 1979 Triple Crown, it would have been the FIRST time, that we would have had, (3) Triple Crown Winners, in a row! Wow, what could have been, darn!🤔 Yes, I also agree, that Seattle Slew, was better than Affirmed......without a doubt! Seattle Slew, DID race against Affirmed, in 1978, after Affirmed won the Triple Crown. It was the FIRST time EVER, that Triple Crown Winners, raced against each other!🤗 Seattle Slew, did WIN the race, against Affirmed! Now, it could have been, that Seattle Slew WON that race, either because he was simply better than Affirmed; Affirmed, could have been TIRED out, because Seattle Slew had time to REST, after his 1977 Triple Crown win; or, that Seattle Slew, was ONE (1) Year OLDER than Affirmed! This, can make a BIG difference, in Horse Racing!
@@tracydavis8982 Maybe the Bid let Affirmed have it 'too easy' at the front. In this race the half was 49 seconds. Affirmed is a very game horse, (go ask Alydar). The Bid challenged but was never in front.
When Affirmed met Slew in the Marlboro Cup, Affirmed was never within 3 lengths of the lead and the half was 2 seconds faster at 47 and that was with more horses so Slew didn't need to go that fast.
Of course in the 78 Jockey Club, they went 45 and 1 only to see Slew to lose by the slimmest of noses to Exceller and Affirmed well back (they said his saddle slipped, but I doubt he would have won)
You wished that Alydar was in this race, what about Slew. But this can never happen and it's worse today. Great horses, not only don't race at five, they don't race at 4,. Probably, no 'great' horse will race to four. The breeders cup will likely be the last race in their careers from now on.
You really can't blame them. A half a ton of horse, running full out all on these relatively small ankles. All horse owners know the what happened to Ruffian, they can't take that risk
@@michaelcolfin8464, I said that I wished Alydar was in this race, and I did not mention Slew, because Alydar would have been (4) Years old, the same age as Affirmed, and Slew would have been (5) Years old.....too OLD to be racing. Yes, if Slew, and Secretariat, could have been in this race, if they had been much YOUNGER, the race would have sold out, and a BILLION people would have watched on T.V.
You are right, most horses do not run after (3) Years. But, The Bid, was sensational in his 4th Year (1980), and I think that (1941) Triple Crown Winner, "Whirlaway," and (1948) Triple Crown Winner, "Citation," raced in their 4th. Year, and maybe their 5th. Year, I am not sure. I think that I saw on a program, where Ben Jones, who owned Whirlaway, and Citation, and the prestigious Calumet Farm, his Wife told him to stop racing these horses, past their 3rd. Year. Ben Jones, was trying to make as much money as he could, but he did LOVE his horses, and of course, CARED very much for their health, but he knew that they had the TALENT to run past their 3rd. Year. But, Mr. Jones' wife said, that the horses had already WON the Triple Crown, so there was nothing else to prove. Plus, back in those very EARLY days of horse racing, it seemed as if it was much EASIER on the racetracks. Back in the 1930's, and 1940's, horses were WINNING the Triple Crown, just like it was another day at the park.
But, yes, after Ruffian died in the 1970's, they started to take it much easier on the horses. Ruffian, was only (3) Years old, when she died, and Ruffian, Zenyatta, and Rachel Alexandra, are the BEST "girl" horses, EVER!
@@tracydavis8982 If Slew was infertile, he would have raced until he was 8 or 10 or beyond. Look at John Henry.
Assuming all things equal, equal weights, equal health, equal rest, Secretariat would beat any horse. This would be especial true in a mile and a half race. The Bid still has the record for a mile and a quarter, but I'm sure Secretariat would have ran him down.
Ruffian had never lost a race until she shattered her leg "Video showed Ruffian was startled by a bird in the infield and took a bad step. " And that was all it took to end the life of the greeatest filly who ever lived.
Maybe if Zenyatta hadn't spotted the field 20+ lengths at the beginning of the race, she might have won a second breeders cup classic and been known as the best female horse who had ever lived. Of course, after what happened to Ruffian, she became a legend and you can't compete with a legend.
The Belmont is Saturday. If there is a triple crown winner this year, I suppose it'll have an asterix after their name. Hell the Belmont won't even be mile and a half this year. How can it be a true Belmont States if it isn't run in a mile and a half ;-(
That all stopped in the 90s
Last time i saw two Kentucky Derby winners was Ferdinand versus alysheba
And affirmed is saying thanks for being a 3yo Mr Bid
No , Affirmed was just better, period. The Jockey Club Gold Cup is run late in the year . Bid as a 4 year old beat a bunch of stiffs, the same group he pounded as a 3 year old ( Flying Paster ! Lol) . Delp even ducked Winters Tale in the Marlboro Cup the following year because he did not like the weight assignments and then bowed out of the Jockey Club , most likely because he felt his horse couldn’t go 1/2 miles .
@@jamesasmus9194 affirmed was older, period, and how many wr and tr did he set???
TR and WR are set and broken constantly. Track conditions on a given day also play a role. Affirmed beat spectacular bid handily in this race and probably could have opened up more if asked . Bid couldn’t get past Affirmed at 1/2 miles and if you watch the race closely he tried to pull even about 5x and pincay never let him get closer than a neck . Affirmed was a great horse who ran against other great horses : Alydar, Exceller , Seattle Slew and your favorite horse. He won more often than not . Slew was probably the best of this group and also would have crushed bid at any distance. Bid beat nothing as a 4 year old and the trainer ducked Winters Tale in the Marlboro Cup , lol. Great horses don’t avoid challenges . Bid beat older horses in the Marlboro cup in 1980 . Then ducked affirmed in the Woodward and went on to lose to him in the JCGC . Affirmed could win at any distance and , to my knowledge, never avoided any other horse.
@@jamesasmus9194 weak answer,
Not at all, just not the answer you wanted to hear. Delp was wise to steer Bid out to California for most of his 4 year old campaign. The weights he was assigned in his CA stint were very generous. When he came East he was immediately assigned 136lbs for the Marlboro Cup VS 122 for Winters Tale. Delp threw a fit and withdrew him from the race. If you don’t believe me, look it up . What’s really unfortunate is that people will probably be unable to have such debates in the future. It is very doubtful that racing fans will ever see two TC winners face off again, or even a 4 year old TC winner go up against a top younger horse. In this era, Slew, affirmed and Bid would probably never race at 4 .
What was the final time? A
Seattle Slew beat the gritty and tough Affirmed "2 times", and that shows you what
kind of beast of a competitor Seattle Slew was. I'm sure if Slew raced against the
great Secretariat in the Kentucky Derby and Preakness, Slew would have won at
least one of those. These were the 2 best horses I've seen in my era.
As a well-rested 4-year-old, Slew twice finished ahead of a tired 3-year-old in Affirmed, who was running in the 10 and 11th races of the year. Slew never came close to competing in a single season. He lacked the durability and resilience required to compete that much. As a 3-year-old, Slew never raced against older horses at all, let alone great older ones like Forego. Instead, his losses were limited to horses his own age. Let's not forget that in one of those two races against Affirmed, Slew was himself defeated by another 4-year-old - Exceller. At age 4, Slew had 3 wins against 2 losses in stakes races against other older horses like himself. That isn't exactly a stellar resume. Overall, Affirmed raced much more often, against many more really tough opponents. In 14 of his races, he faced one or more opponents ranked in the top 100 horses of the 20th century. His racing schedule was much more physically demanding than Slew's.
@@sl-rt5kv but the bottom line is, affirmed was never able to beat seattle slew. that's all it is
@@lookatvedman9993 And the bottom line is Seattle Slew was never able to defeat Dr. Patches and Spectacular Bid was never able to defeat Affirmed and Secretariat was never able to defeat Prove Out. Those are all "bottom lines".
@@sl-rt5kv like I said, bottom line he never beat the slew. Got ran out in the Marlboro and couldn’t keep up with slew in the jcgc. Excuses excuses. The horse was simply outclassed. Let it go
@@lookatvedman9993 I never said that Affirmed wasn't :outclassed" in his races against Seattle Slew. I should also point out that in one of those races another 4-year old, Exceller, "outclassed" both Seattle Slew and Affirmed. Additionally, J.O. Tobin "outclassed" Seattle Slew in the Swaps Stakes running 1 1/4 miles considerably faster than Slew ever did. As you said, no excuses. No subjectivity, Just the facts.
The four-year-old Affirmed had much in reserve after the slow early fractions.
I WAS AT THE TRACK FOR SLEW'S 3 YR OLD DEBUT AND I REMEMBER THE FIRST FLASH OF THE TOTE BOARD SHOWED $20,000 BET ON HIM
WELL. A YOUNG KID, I PUT $80 TO PLACE. HE WON BY 7 LENGTHS AND I GOT BACK A TOTAL OF $88. HE THEN WON THE FLA. DERBY AND THE REST IS HISTORY.
I MUST NOT LET TIME BYPASS A GOOD HORSE OUT OF CALDER BACK INTHE 70's. LOCAL HORSE PROUD & BOLD WAS IN A ROUTE RACE ,124lbs vs FOREGO, 126LBS. AND JUST LOSS BY A NECK TO THE HORSEOFTHEYEAR.
ANOTHER CALDER HORSE WHO DEMOLISHED ALL HIS CALDER FOES WAS THE SPRINTER "SMILE". ITS A SHAME HE WAS SO MISMANAGED AS HE HAD GREATNESS IN HIS VEINS WINNING THE BREEDERS SPRINT RACE THE YEAR AFTER LOSING IT BY A NECK. SMILE WAS A GREAT ONE OUT OF CALDER RACE COURSE
Thomas Petty here again . I want to make a correction on SEATTLE SLEW.He went on to win the Flamingo , not the Fla. Derby.How does
Citation beat him into THE MAKE believe Derby when Citation lost to Noor 4 times.
I made an error. Seattle Slew went on to win the Flamingo Stakes, not the Fla. Derby , and the rest is history. My big three:
Secretariat
Seattle Slew
Zenyatta
...............Thomas Petty
A quick thought on Affirmed horses at different ages are really different runners, but has anyone ever wondered what would happen had Affirmed ran in his prime against Secretariat in his prime and they were close would Affirmed let Secretariat blow by him, I don't see it.
+jack brandt I know about those races, and if you have read my other comments you would know that they only horse that I think is better than SS was Secretariat Affirmed has incredible heart and he showed it when he beat spectacular bid but he was not the horse that Slew was I don't care what anyone says, in fact an argument could be made that there are not 5 horses in the history of the sport better than the Slew.
Gee Eric. This race was on a .04 variant with a much slower pace than Bid Red had in the Belmont & Secretariat was carrying 5 lbs.more. Both ran the last quarter in 25 seconds flat. Never a whip laid to Secretariat. Both Affirmed & the Bid were whipped to hell & back. Let Affirmed run the pace Secretariat did in which he couldn't & see what his last quarter time would be. But Affirmed was one hell of a horse in my book.
rscarbro100 Yes they were great horses. The Slew was indeed great and I know that Affirmed was not the horse that Secretariat was but in front it would have taken a great effort for any horse to pass him is all I meant.
Tresa Lamb Yeah , Affirmed was great not quite as great as these other two. But his duel with Alydar was something to behold especially that Belmont they ran. As for the Belmont that Sec ran in my mind it was the greatest performance by a horse at that distance. Breathtaking is how I would call it. A question for a while there it seemed like we would not get another triple crown winner. There was some funny stuff going on, but do you think that the closeness of the three races and the distance of the third race is it asking too much of these animals?
Tresa Lamb I was a big fan of one Smarty Jones and he just died in that loooong stretch at Belmont. He too I thought had blood lines from Sec. And I love the Slew. I know you are a big fan of his he wss a beautiful black horse.
Affirmed did to Spectacular Bid, what Seattle Slew did to Affirmed the year before.
This would be the last time a Triple Crown winner was in a race after winning such until American Pharoah raced in the 2015 Haskell at Monmouth Park.
Bid only tried 12 furlongs 2 times...He obviously had issues in the Belmont with the Pace and foot injury...This was only the 2nd time he tried 12 Furlongs and he had an All Time Great Horse in front of him who was also setting SLOW fractions...Bid still managed to be competitive and finish a close 2nd...This race clearly showed 12 Furlongs was not an issue...Had Affirmed not ran in this race Bid would have Won and nobody would be talking about him having distance issues...Now if an inferior Horse beat him in this race that would be different...But this was Affirmed...Perhaps 12 Furlongs was not Bids BEST distance but he certainly could handle this distance
Affirmed drifted out on the wide far turn, causing Spectacular Bid to take up and rerally to his inside.
Two of the all time greats in this edition of the JCGC, Affirmed was too mature for The Bid here, but The Bid would go on to have a greater overall career.
Bid was a great horse but there is no way he had a better career than Affirmed..
@@frankcapo2669 Agreed , Bid beat nothing as a 4 year old and the trainer still ducked out of the Marlboro Cup because he was assigned 136lbs. Bids track records will eventually be surpassed, but Affirmed won the Triple Crown and is a permanent part of horse racing history. Moreover, he had to beat a horse (Alydar) , who was almost his equal to earn his TC . He also faced other great horses in the aforementioned Alydar, Exceller and Seattle Slew. Slew May have been the best of this group IMO . Affirmed also beat the bid and I believe the results would have been the same the following year if Affirmed raced at 5 . The margin of victory would probably have been larger . Affirmed was going easily in the JCGC , bid was all out . Bid faced two big challenges in his racing career and failed both. The first was the Belmont in which Franklin rode him very aggressively, like the horse was secretariat , and he tired badly . The second was when he faced Affirmed and lost . Delp bragged that his horse would kick Affirmed’s ass , lol, but it didn’t turn out that way . A match race would have even been worse for the Bid and they are lucky it didn’t happen . When asked about the possibility, Pincay had a huge smile on his face and said he thought it was a great idea.
Just as 4yo Seattle beat 3yo Affirmed, a 4yo Affirmed beat 3yo Spectacular Bid. Horses hit their peak at 4-5, not 3.
Yes, which is a shame we never got to see what Secretariat could've done.
Secretariat destroyed every older horse @ 3. Imagine him at 4? He'd have to run against machines or Pegasus
@@johnniepalacios9381 Incorrect. Secretariat lost to 4yo Onion in the Whitney, which was his first race against older horses. Then after that, Secretariat lost in the Woodward Stakes to 4yo Prove Out. Prove Out carried 7 more pounds than Red, and still beat him by 5 lengths. He was 3 for 5 against older horses.
Affirmed enjoyed historically slow fractions up front during this race...Bid made multiple moves into this snail pace and backed off only to come again at the end and not lose by much...Affirmed was also older than Bid...Bid was Best in this race in my opinion in a loss...ANY kind of realistic pace and he Wins
Affirmed was better as the results here show. He raced against far better competition and won more often than not . Affirmed always would have been one year older than the Bid , that’s hardly the horses fault . I believe at 5, Affirmed still would have beaten Bid . Especially at 1 1/2 miles. Classic distance, I would still take affirmed. Bid beat nothing as a 4 year old . People often forget that Alydar was an excellent horse too, not sure he lost , other than to Affirmed. Bid has no such competition at 4 and the horses he beat (Flying Paster and Glorious Song - to name a few) , were no where near the caliber of Alydar, Affirmed or even in the same zip code as Seattle Slew. If Bid had raced on the East Coast early in his 4 year old campaign , he would not have set any track records and surely would have lost. I don’t think the other horses would have beaten him as much as the weight. People forget that Bid was assigned 136lbs by the racing secretary at Belmont for the Marlboro Cup- Delp was furious and pulled him from the race . Weight can defeat the best of horses .
The golden age of racing…
That was 4 times the bid tried taking the lead and 4 times Affirmed felt insulted.
fractions were historically slow...Affirmed had it all his own way during this race...He was a Top level horse and Bids elder and when you give a Horse like this these slow fractions to work with it is near impossible to catch him
Jeff Snell the bid tried three times to pass and couldn’t. But I loved affirmed and the Bid. I used to go watch the Bid Affirmed and John Henry. Bids class at Santa Anita Flying Paster with Pierce on him always tried but could never get there and Super moment never came to be. I just loved affirms toughness. In that racc the Bid had 3 chances and was turned away 3?times. You won’t see me knocking Spectacular Bid. I just loved affirmed. Much more strategic races back then and Jockeys were a heck of a lot better. The used to usually have a rabbit in those races. The gray horse who always went out from . what was his name? Affirmed and Alydar.
@@robertarnold7643 Yes Affirmed had so much horse in the tank during those fractions ...My point is that i would not claim Affirmed was the better Horse based off this race
Jeff Snell you prefer the bid. I prefer Affirmed. I’m not ever going to bad mouth Spectacular Bid. Yes 1 year difference in age and maturity is huge. Seattle Slew and affirmed. I have great memories of those horses and those days. In horse racing he who controls the pace controls the outcome. Like football. I loved horses when set down the in the stretch and hook up with another show that will to win. Racing pace, traffic, jockeys judgement going wide on first and far turn, so much plays in. The Bid was a tough tough great horse. Had he won the Triple Crown people would have talked about him a lot more. I forget what race at Santa Anita. Flying Paster probably ran his best race. But the bid was just too much horse. Unfortunately sometimes we just don’t get to run that race or play that game again. So props to Spectacular Bid.
Jeff Snell One of two things in that race is either The bid should have pressed affirmed harder down the backstretch or Affirmed was just better. It should have been a match race. I really didn’t see the Bid put push affirmed. I did see him get denied at every attempt to do so. If is the biggest word in the dictionary. He never really challenge the pace. He had opportunity but didn’t ever come up along side Affirmed. That may have been jockey judgement.
25-49-113-137 fractions out on the lead in a 4 horse field....dream fractions and dream trip for Affirmed....Too bad they never had a rematch...
They should have had at least 3. A match race would have been great.
Seems the grandstand side of the track was slower. Perhaps afternoon shade or uneven track maintenance.
@11SEXMACHINE… Don’t feel bad Alydar was a great sire of racehorses . He sired Hall of Famer Easy Goer and Alysheeba just to name a couple also many stakes winners . If he wasn’t killed by those despicable owners he would have sired many more .
Barrera decide against 133 for Affirmed against 126 for Bid. Suggest you research Affirmeds 4 YO career before making a comment that he did not stand a chance at 9 furlongs. At 3YO ,an ailing Affirmed ran 1:46 and 2/5ths at 9 furlongs. Affirmed, like the Bid was a better and stronger horse at 4YO. a 3YO Bid had no chance at any distance against a 4YO Affirmed. Further, Shoe had no choice but to let Affirmed set the pace. He knew what happened in the Belmont when Bid got cooked.
The Snail slow pace of this race Cost Spectacular Bid....Affirmed had it all HIS way
Affirmed is second only to Secretariat among the all time greats.
They should had put affirmed to stud in 1978.
Don't think an excellent Affirmed would have beaten The Bid when Bid was 4-years old. That one extra year, with few exceptions(See Secretariat), means a great deal for male horses. The Bid's 4-year old season was as good as any horse in history with two world and a couple of track records to his credit. Remember that Affirmed lost to Slew when Affirmed was a 3-year old.
@@sl-rt5kv Will not argue about Citation, Fager or Kelso, who are among the greatest horses of all time. We will never know if Bid could have beaten Affirmed at 1 1/2 miles, as they never raced against each other at that distance. Affirmed was a wonderful horse and nothing I am saying is meant to denigrate him or his wonderful accomplishments; however, Bid was an absolute freight train as a four year old-some horses mature greatly during the interim between their three and four year old seasons-and Bid was one of them. Too, he beat a damned good horse in Flying Paster three straight times while setting his records out west. Upon returning east, not a single horse, not one, would even run against him in the Woodward. He literally galloped a 2:02 so I have few doubts that the 4-year old Bid could have handled 1 1/2 miles.
Remember how badly Seattle Slew beat Affirmed when Affirmed was a 3-year old? Forego was another who matured into a truly great horse between three and four, and grew so strong that he is probably the greatest handicap horse from 7 F-2 miles in racing history.
These are all fun arguments and perhaps one day in racing heaven, we can race these great ones against one another! (All at 4-years old!)
Great race u have to watch seattle slew n affirm in the 78 marboro cup ,slew really showed how great of a horse he was
Hey 2 great horses an a great race but i still feel after watching horse racing since 1970 slew the second best horse i ve ever seem ,but hey affirm watch a great horse to
Yes, that was the FIRST time that (2) Triple Crown Winners, raced against each other!!!😎
Affirmed won this amazing race, but the better horse is Spectacular Bid, let's remember at the time Affirmed had run the second fastest Belmont Stakes. Probably on that racetrack and at that distance only two horses were capable of beating him, Secretariat and EasyGoer. Having said that Affirmed was a true champion!!!
From a number standpoint, Beyers that is, Spectacular Bid was a consistently faster horse than Affirmed...please look it up..do your homework, I don't talk out my rear end. The Bid had other than Secretariat consistent Beyers of 115 or higher, his 4 year old career is said to be one of the greatest if not the greatest. I do agree with you that Affirmed face stiffer competition due to Alydar but that doesn't diminish Bid's greatness. Prove Out was a very good horse and his time is legit but Easy Goer's time on a non particular fast racetrack that day(the Belmont) compared to Secretariat time on a lightning fast track is remarkable also considering that Easy Goer ran 4 wide the entire race until the turn of the race, his ragozin number is identical to Secretariat's of 0 due to these numbers considering trip and surface, taking all that in to consideration he would have ran a 2:25 and possibly sub 2:25 and beaten only 6 lengths(by Secretariat) as per Andrew Beyer and Mister Ragozin.. not me..
Its okay you don't have to take Beyers and Ragozin numbers, that is you liberty of Opinion but do know that these numbers do evaluate capacity of horses, we also have trakus now and other factors which may determine how horses run. you may say that the sand was deeper or not as deep that is always going to be an argument, I believe Affirmed or Seattle Slew wasn't as fast as the Bid and I have given you my evidence with beyers and times.You have the right to your opinion. I don't think weight would have matter to much on Bid and Horses like Easy Goer, they were built differently..
This is were you are totally wrong, I have provided evidence, that you choose to ignore the beyers and times is your opinion and again your opinion that people don't use these numbers is another atrocity to the intellect of people, when people buy the DRF the first or one of the first things you look at is beyers plus other set of items that can be number to a million... but Spectacular Bid ran a faster time, period end of statement whether you want to justify the weight that in no way is Spectacular Bid's fault. Thanks for the newton's law lesson but horses that weight 1200 or more in the case like Easy Goer who probably weighed much more than that and was built like a "Sean Taylor" they can carry more weight and at high speeds, of course if you put a 175 pound person that is a different story...like anything we can debate this until we are blue..
lets take something simple too, if a horse runs a beyer of 120 and he runs against one of 89 chances are the 120 will be faster than the other that has an 89 furthermore if he continues to run those type of numbers and his competition doesn't chances are he is faster, of course many factors can influence that not happening, weather, distance,jockeys, the horse not feeling good the morning of the race, stumbling, the change of strategy so like in life it is not a certainty..
Danny Jimenez Affirmed looked like a light weight...the Bid was a beast!!!!!
Nobody mentions the fact that this a rare bad ride by Shoemaker. Bid might have pulled it off with a better ride. Indecision around first turn caused the Bid to lose valuable lengths. Then goes slightly wide around far turn .
Kevin Small Kevin, look at Shoemaker's ride carefully and the "Bids" position entering first turn. You cannot pull back 3 lengths on a horse like Affirmed and expect to make it up in stretch . If your logic was played out in all races then all rail horses should win. We know they don't. The momentum on a banked turn for outside horses help horses on outside. These factors didn't play a part in this race. Affirmed won first because he was a 4yr. old, secondly he got a better trip because he usually is in front. They came home in 25 last quarter. Seattle Slew was faster in last quarter. The Slew had unbelievable SUSTAINABLE speed. We'll never see a decade like the 70's again. Glad I was around to see them all.
Thank-you
Affirmed was better at 4 than Spectacular Bid was at 3.
Seattle Slew and Exceller were better at 4 than Affirmed was at 3.
Spectacular Bid at 4 was ridiculous. The only other horse I can remember with a comparable season was Cigar in '95.
Swaps had a tremendous 4YO season in 1956. Like Bid, most was on the CA circuit. Affirmed went 7-1-1 at 4YO and never lost once they got Cauthen off the horse.
Kelso set a World record on dirt for 2 miles and an American track record on grass at a mile and one half in a span of eleven days. This was as a seven year old that was past his prime!
I've read Dr. Fager's four-year-old campaign called the best single year in American racing, though at least challenged by Bid at 4.
Fager remains the only horse to win four championships in a single year: Horse of the Year, older male, sprinter, turf horse.
"Never carrying less than 130 pounds, Dr. Fager won seven of eight starts, set a world record for the mile and broke the American record for seven furlongs." [Wikipedia]
marysueeasteregg
He also equaled a track record at a mile and a quarter at aqueduct 1:59 3/5 under 132 pounds beating Damascus!
Affirmed superior. Zero excuse.
Affirmed older horse, reason not excuse
@@marcosponce960 it was the end of the season and Bid close to being a 4 year old. It isn't fair that Bid was rated above Affirmed with an inferior resume and being beaten head to head.
@@brunoaltimino and affirmed is then close to 5 Yo, the Bids 4yo resume is just top tier
Frank J Altieri
Bid doesn’t have an inferior resume. Bid was 26 for 30. Affirmed was 22 for 29. Bid more consistent. Bid at 4 had 4 track records and a world record of 1:57 4/5 for a mile and a quarter, 4/5 faster than affirmed’s track record. Affirmed’s only track record. Spectacular bid had 8 total track records. So a horse called “radar ahead” beat affirmed twice in 1979? Does that mean he’s better than affirmed?
He was 12
Sross West la
I think the Bid ultimately was a better horse, but always bet a great 4 year old against a great 3 year old.
Who would win this race at a mile and quarter, Affirmed, Seattle Slew, Man of War, Citation,Secretariat, War Admiral, Smarty Jones, Sunday Silence , John Henry , Ruffian not a bad field? that would be A great race. If some how they could all be in there primes maybe at four years old, I know some were not even racing at that age but purest say that a horse is at his prime at 4 or 5.
Hard to say since not all of them raced as four year olds, but if they had and had kept or improved upon their 3 year old forms then probably either Man O' War or Secretariat would have won. Man O' War is difficult to compare to other great horses because his owner didn't care about setting records, and so he rarely ever ran at his top speed: he ran only as fast as was required to win. But he had an enormous stride and when he did run well, he ran VERY well. Secretariat on the other hand ran hard on several occasions, and set great records, so he would also be a possibility to win. The others, I don't think so. Smarty Jones and Sunday Silence shouldn't even be in that field.
***** You are probably right about those last two Smarty and Sunday Silence but they are my personal Favorites. And don't underestimate Smarty Jones he was a bad ride away from winning the Triple Crown.
Eric Day I know he did. But he isn't nearly as talented as the other horses on that list, regardless. Maybe put Native Dancer and of course, Spectacular Bid (you left him out) on the list.
***** I am one of those people who thinks that Spec. Bid was big time overrated, one last thing about Smarty he was undefeated going into the Belmont and he is my personal favorite, I will give you that there are more talented horses that I could have put in but I went with my home town choice, so kill me, by the way Seattle Slew would be right there with the big two of Secretariat, Man of War.
Eric Day Spectacular Bid set multiple track records and a world record (1:57 4/5 at a 1 1/4 on dirt), won the Grade I Woodward Stakes in a walkover because no one else dared to face him (even horses like Secretariat and Seattle Slew were not considered so terrifying that nobody would dare face them in a Grade I race), and carried 130 pounds or more on multiple occasions. To not consider him one of the greatest horses of all time would be a huge error. I also think that he was overrated, but that doesn't mean that he wasn't great. He WAS an exceptional horse, he just wasn't invincible like some people like to claim.
Slew was better of all three horses. Unbelievable speed.
Speed is for quarter horses secretariat, Bid
4 year old Slew was better than 3 year old Affirmed and 3 year old Spectacular Bid
If they're all 4 years old it's probably a 3 way coin flip
Stick in a 3 year old Secretariat and it's a 4 way coin flip
It was a great era for horse racing.
Bid made about 3 separate runs at the front during some of the slowest fractions you will ever see during this race..While Affirmed had the HUGE advantage setting these snail fractions..Bid only losing this race by such a small margin absolutely shows me he was the BEST horse in this race
How do you come to that conclusion? Bid was pretty close to Affirmed throughout the race. After a pedestrian first six furlongs in 1:13, the fact that he couldn't come home in better than 1:14 and change for the final six furlongs to win this race tells me that he wasn't the best horse.
@@richd3044 Yes but Bid used up energy during the race by making multiple moves towards that lead...Affirmed was relaxed and not used 1 bit on the lead
Affirmed couldn't even run with Slew. No every close and Affirmed was an all time great
*Affirmed couldn't even run with Slew* Using that line of reasoning Seattle Slew couldn't even run with Exceller, Dr. Patches, Text, Affiliate, and J.O. Tobin on the days he lost to those horses. It's also worth noting that on the days that Slew lost to those horses, he was running against horses his own age. He wasn't a 3-year old losing to great older horses, as was the case with Affirmed when competing against great 4-year olds like Exceller and Slew. Indeed, Slew didn't even compete against mediocre older horses as a 3-year old, let alone great ones like Forego who was still racing at that time.
affirmed overrated,obviously you no nothing about horse racing,He had the biggest heart of any racehorse with maybe the exception of seabiscuit.His stretch runs were epic and never gave an inch. The horses of todays era couldnt hold his shoes...spectacular bid had is shot and you see what happened.Thats why there hasn't been a tcw since...California chrome will lose like the rest of them....There not built like affirmed anymore!!!!!!!!
all great horses
I loved Affirmed too, great heart great, just ask Alydar.
@Ved Valmyr the Barrera brothers were using the good stuff back in those days
seattle slew (4) beat affirmed (3). affirmed (4) beat the bid (3). bottom line most of the time a great four year old will beat a great three year old.
Shoe didn't look easy on The Bid...
There's a BIG difference physically between a 4-year-old and a 3-year-old racehorse. The fact that a 3-year-old Spectacular Bid only lost to a 4-year-old Triple Crown-winning Affirmed by ONE length is another reason why I have The Bid ranked only behind Secretariat as the G.O.A.T.!
It's an apples vs. oranges comparison. Affirmed competed against much tougher opponents overall than Bid did. Affirmed competed in 14 races against horses ranked in the top 100 horses of the 20th century whereas Bid only competed in 1 horse of that caliber. It's also an apples-vs-oranges comparison comparing Bid to horses like Forego, Dr. Fager, Citation, Kelso, Round Table and many more. Each of those horses accomplished things that Bid never did and very likely never could.
@@sl-rt5kv Your apples to oranges comparisons are ridiculous. You obviously know NOTHING about Spectacular Bid's history. Flying Paster, General Assembly, and Golden Act were ALL great racehorses who provided The Bid with PLENTY of competition, in 1979 AND 1980. Other than Alydar, what other racehorse did Affirmed have to beat in 1978? As for your other comparisons, Dr. Fager was a miler. Forego and Kelso did not become notable until they became handicap horses. Citation and Round Table were from a completely era of horseracing. How many track records and stakes records did The Bid set? How many track records and stakes records did Affirmed set? Spectacular Bid won 26 of his 30 races. Affirmed won 22 of his 29 races. I am a big Affirmed fan too, but your trashing of Spectacular Bid shows your lack of overall horseracing knowledge.
@@TheProfessorOfLife You are missing the point. My claim that comparisons between great horses are apples-vs-oranges comparisons is not ridiculous because that is what they are. That’s why, unlike you, I never claim that any great horses like Bid, Citation, Kelso, Dr. Fager, Secretariat, Affirmed, Seattle Slew, Forego, Round Table etc. are “better“ than any of the others. Flying Paster, General Assembly, and Golden Act were excellent horses, but none of them were Hall of Famer’s and they are absolutely not ranked in Bloodhorse’s top 100 horses of the 20th century. In fact, most people would consider Affirmed’s adversaries in 14 races - Seattle Slew, Alydar, Exceller, and Spectacular Bid himself - to be more formidable opponents than those 3 competitors of Bid who you cite. As an aside, Affirmed did win the triple crown competing against Alydar while Bid failed to do so against lesser opponents. Bid may have run 1 1/4 miles 0.6 seconds faster than Affirmed, but he also carried 6 pounds less than Affirmed when he did it. Another apples-vs.oranges comparison. You don't know that Bid was “better” than Affirmed.
Your characterization of Dr. Fager as just “a miler” ignores the fact that most of the races he ran at ages 3 and 4 were over one mile. Fager never got the chance to compete at 1 ¼ miles on speedy West Coast tracks the way Bid did, but he did run that distance in under 2 minutes on three separate occasions on slower East Coast courses. He did this once as a three-year old and twice at age 4, carrying 132 and 135 pounds, respectively. Bid never came close to running 1 ¼ miles in under 2 minutes on East Coast tracks and only finished under 2 minutes once on a fast west coast track. Bid only carried 126 pounds when he set his world record. This brings up another point of difference between Fager and Bid. As 4-year olds, Dr. Fager carried an _average_ of 4 1/2 pounds more per race than what Spectacular Bid carried. That’s the kind of weight differential that older horses are commonly assigned when competing against 3-year olds. In 1980 Bid did have a chance to run against Winter’s Tale, probably the hottest horse in the nation besides Bid at the time, in the Marlboro Cup. However, after Bid got assigned 136 pounds, they scratched him from the race. Bid was definitely not the second coming of Forego or Dr. Fager when it came to carrying huge imposts to victory against the best horses. It’s also worth noting that as a 4-year old Dr. Fager won all 4 championships: Horse of the Year, Champion Grass Horse, Champion Male Handicap horse, and champion Sprinter. That’s the only time any horse ever won all 4 championships in a single season. You don't know that Bid was better than Dr. Fager.
Your claim that Kelso didn’t become notable until he was a handicap horse is false. In fact, he won the first of his 5 consecutive Horse of the Year championships at age 3. He was also named Champion 3-year old that year. Also at age 3, Kelso won the first of his 5 consecutive Jockey Club Gold Cups, smashing the world record for 2 miles. In that race the younger Kelso defeated hall of fame older horse, Bald Eagle. Kelso would go on to break his own 2-mile world record two more times in his subsequent JCGC wins. He also set a world record for 1 1/2 miles on grass of 2:23.8. That's a full second faster than Secretariat ran that distance on grass. By contrast, Bid never won a race at any distance greater than 1 1/4 miles. Kelso also was name Champion Older Male Horse for 4 consecutive years. You don't know that Bid was better than Kelso.
Discounting the achievements of Round Table and Citation simply because they competed 20 years and 28 years, respectively before Bid is illogical. You could just as easily apply the same “reasoning” to discount the achievements of Bid because he raced 35 years before American Pharoah or 25 years before Ghostzapper. In fact, Round Table won 34 races in the same time frame that Bid won 26. Altogether Round Table won 43 races in 4 years and carried between 130 and 136 pounds to victory 17 times. There is no reason to believe that Bid had the talent required to win 43 races in four years. Round Table also set 14 track, US, and world records and ran 1 ¼ miles in under 2 minutes on five separate occasions. Bid ran 1 ¼ miles under two minutes just once. Many people consider Round Table to be the greatest grass horse of all time even though he was also a great dirt horse. I see no evidence that Bid was good on grass. You don’t know that Bid was “better” than Round Table.
Finally, Citation won the triple crown whereas Bid did not. Citation also defeated older hall of fame older horses as a 3-year old, something Bid did not do. He also won 16 races in a row, something that Bid never did. Furthermore, Citation had already won 27 times by the conclusion of his 3-year old season. That is is more victories than Bid achieved in his career. You don't know that Bid was better than Citation.
@@sl-rt5kv You're an INCREDIBLE "back-tracker". All you're doing is embarrassing yourself, by first DENYING many of the EARLIER points you tried to make, THEN providing meaningless statistics that seemingly SUPPORT your earlier points! Do you live in some sort of parallel universe? How old are you? Mid-teens, perhaps? "Casual" horseracing fans like you PRETEND to be "experts" by using your Wikipedia skills to give everybody else the appearance that you actually know what you're talking about. Your pathological hatred of Spectacular Bid is very strange, at best. I'll bet you also believe that Man o' War is better than Secretariat, too. Funny, and sad, at the same time. Off you go, youngster. Let the REAL horseracing people talk.
@@TheProfessorOfLife *How many track records and stakes records did The Bid set* If setting records is the measure of a horse, Swaps would be ranked ahead of Spectacular Bid. Swaps set 5 world records at 5 different distances in a single season. One of those world records still stands today, 68 years later. Swaps carried 130 pounds when setting four of those world records whereas Bid only carried 126 when he set his lone world record. It's also interesting to speculate on how fast Swaps might have run if they didn't have the brakes on in the later stages of so many of his record setting races. The official comment line in four of his record breaking races reads" "Eased final 16th", "Never to a drive, Eased up", "Eased up late", "Eased final stages" etc.
Affirmed up near and on the lead had such a HUGE advantage in this race with how SNAIL SLOW the fractions were...Spectacular Bid made 3 different moves at the leaders during this race and backed off...Yet he still only narrowly lost at the wire...Spectacular Bid was the BEST horse in this race even though he did not win
Not sure why you post the same point several times on this video. Bid was right on his flank almost the entire race, excellent trip even if not perfect, and didn't have enough to overtake Affirmed at ANY point in the race in spite of the slow fractions. Affirmed clearly the better horse this day.
Any kind of pace in this race Bid probably wins the race by 3 plus lengths...Bid was the better horse in this race "clearly"...
@@joechrow8341 Disagree, Bid was on or near Affirmed the whole race, pace was not a factor..
@@frankcapo2669 Bid made several Moves toward that pace and backed off...You obviously are clueless about this Sport if you think the Pace was irrelevant so no sense debating with you...Be well sir
@@joechrow8341 Joe you have repeatedly said in other posts that Bid was clearly the better horse in that race, i do not see that.
Yes pace makes race but if you know anything about Affirmed then you would know this is a typical Affirmed type race, they could have went around the track one more time and Bid was never going to be in front of Affirmed on that day.
i'll have another would have beaten them all if given a chance
***** hahahahahahahahahaha.
+Pete Wilson He wouldn't of survived
California vs The Easy 🔥
To bad Alydar was already retired
The great Tom Durkin.
That was Marshall Cassidy
@@racefan1951 you are 100 percent right. Thanks for correcting me.All the best.
Love how people disrespect Slew.
He smashed Affirmed twice and it wasn't close either time.
where the fuck am I
Letting an All Time Great Horse Like Affirmed Dictate HISTORIC SNAIL SLOW Fractions up Front is Asking to Get Beat...Bid Made Multiple Moves into This Obscene Slow Pace Backed off and Still Came Again For 2nd Only Missing by a Length....Affirmed Was Also a 4 Year Old Here...Both Horses are Bonafide All Time Greats But This Race Did Not Show Me Which Horse Was Better
One or two races can never show you which horse is better. Was Prove Out better than Secretariat? Was Beau Purple better than Kelso? Not necessarily.
@@sl-rt5kv Exactly....Context Matters in The Race and in The Overall Vast Scope of a Career
@@Brick-so1ig Certainly context matters and the context is different for every great horse. Affirmed competed in 14 races against opponents ranked in the top 100 horses of the 20th century whereas Spectacular Bid competed in 1 race against horses of that caliber. Spectacular Bid won 26 races vs 22 for Affirmed. Neither Affirmed or Spectacular Bid carried the kind of imposts that horses like Forego, Dr. Fager, or Round Table did. For example,. as four-year olds, Dr. Fager carried an average of 4 1/2 pounds more per race than Spectacular Bid did. That's the kind of weight differential that 4-year olds are assigned when competing against 3-year olds. Round Table won 43 races in four years of racing. I see no evidence that Affirmed, Spectacular Bid, Seattle Slew, Forego, Dr. Fager, Secretariat Kelso etc. had the talent required to win anything close to that many races in such a short time frame. Starting as a 3 year old, Kelso won the Jockey Club Gold Cup in world record time in the first of his 5 consecutive victories in this race. He would go on to break his own world record in 2 of his 4 subsequent JCGC's. He owned the 2-miles distance and the JCGC like no other horse ever owned any other distance or race in history. And so on....
Affirmed was a great horse, but couldn't beat the Slew
That's rather like saying that Seattle Slew was a great horse, but could not beat Dr. Patches and Secretariat was a great horse but could not beat Prove Out. Also, in one of the two races when the 4-year old Slew finished ahead of the 3-year old Affirmed, Slew was himself defeated by another 4-year old - Exceller. Seattle Slew's record as a 4-year old in stakes races was 3 wins against 2 defeats. That's not exactly an outstanding resume for a 4-year old.
@@sl-rt5kv ask Angel Cordero Jr. about Seattle Slew loss to Exceller, he admits he blew it, The Slew was the King
Was anyone saying that Spectacular Bid is a better horse than Affirmed, you have got to be blind. There are not seven horses all time that are better than Affirmed.
+Kevin Small Incorrect. Affirmed carried 126 pounds in this race, not 132 pounds. Now I know that Affirmed is your favorite, but let's not get carried away. Affirmed never carried more than 126 pounds as a 3 year old, and in a 29 race career he carried more than 126 pounds a total of 4 times, all as a 4 year old. You just love giving Secretariat flack, don't you? Yes, he didn't carry weight as a 3 year old, neither did Affirmed, Seattle Slew, Spectacular Bid, Kelso, Citation, American Pharoah, I could go on but I think you get the picture.
+Reane Vermaas Kudos my friend you are clearly a man who follows the sport and for a while it seems too, I don't know that triple crown that Affirmed won was just out of sight, especially the Belmont, which I think was probably the best Belmont ever, but I must Admit I have just recently and I am talking the past thirty years, taken a liking too the sport, and since I have been watching Affirmed is right there with the greats, he just would not let horses past him, yes we know what SS did to him and a lot of other horses as well, but Slew was older and a more mature horse when they met, plus the fact that Slew was a better horse, but I tip my cap to you you know the sport.
jack brandt
Sorry, but if you think invasor or tiznow could beat affirmed then you’re delusional! Invasor won the breeders cup classic at 4 slower than affirmed won the Kentucky derby at 3! Affirmed ran a mile and an eighth at three at Saratoga over a second faster than invasor at 4! This is seriously one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever heard! And tiznow only won 8 out of 15 races! Come on man! Tiznow won the Santa Anita handicap in 2001 about 3 seconds slower than affirmed did in 1979! 2:01.55 compared to 1:58 3/5! That’s about 15 lengths! That doesn’t even factor in drugs! No horse in the 2000s could even come close to affirmed! Before you call other people on “ignorant comments,” examine yourself. Because your comment is pure stupidity!
Las"s dope helped to
top 5 modern era 1 Secretariat 2Seattle slew 3 Affirmed 4Spectacular bid 5Alysheba
Eric Day I strongly disagree with your number 5. Alysheba, like Sunday Silence, Big Brown and several other Triple Crown hopefuls required the use of drugs (Lasix and/or Bute in Alysheba's case) in order to win. That's likely why they failed the Triple Crown - the Kentucky Derby and Preakness Stakes permits drug use, but the Belmont Stakes does not. So these frauds pump themselves full of Lasix, Bute and (in Big Brown's case) outright steroids for the Derby and Preakness in order to win, then proceed to lose in the Belmont when forced to run without drugs, because it turns out they aren't actually that talented naturally.
When prevented from using drugs, 'Sheba got his tail handed to him by Bet Twice. I suspect that would have been the outcome in their other meetings too if Alysheba hadn't been permitted to use drugs. I don't think he was nearly as great naturally as he appeared to be when on drugs. No way would I consider him the fifth greatest modern American horse.
+Eric Day Obviously these are all opinions, but I would rank them according to the length of the race. Slew and big Red were mile and half horses that could challenge at any distance. The Bid was absolutely fearsome between 7 fur and a mile and a quarter, but apparently couldn't handle longer distances (lost twice at a mile and a half). Although he won the Belmont (in a slow time), I doubt Affirmed, a very good horse, could match up with the Bid at less than a mile and a half. Depending on how you define modern era, at a mile and a quarter you also have to include Dr Fager (too old?), Ghost Zapper, Cigar (maybe), Ruffian, Sham, and several others. Yeah, I love Holy Bull at that distance as well. People get so emotional when discussing horses, but we all have our opinions! There are so many great ones, that on any given day...
Mike Blast I'm not sure it can really be said that Spectacular Bid couldn't handle a mile and a half: the first time he tried it he was ridden poorly by an inexperienced jockey, and the second time he tried it he was a 3 year old going up against a 4 year old Triple Crown winner.
But you're right; it's all just subjective. Everyone has their own opinions.
All I know is that the Bid still holds the record for a mile and a quarter, and never lost between 7 furlongs and a mile and a quarter. Yeah, we'll never know, but having watched both of them race, I find it hard to believe Affirmed would have prevailed on their best days.
+Eric Day all good horses, but I'd let the good doctor fager operate on any of them
Affirmed had everything his own way this race..Bid made "multiple" moves during this race during a snail fractions..Still ran tremendous..Spectacular Bid was the better horse in this race and lost due to circumstances
The "circumstance" that caused Bid to lose this race was that he did not run fast enough to win it. Bid was the "better" horse in this race? Really? Why don't you prove it?
Slew better then both
Better at what? Affirmed and Bid both won a lot more big races than Slew. Why? Because they could. Slew couldn't. Sure, Slew twice defeated Affirmed as a well-rested 4-year old running against a 3-year old competing at the tail end of a long and grueling season. Horses are generally better at age 4 than at 3. That said, Slew still managed to lose one of his races against Affirmed to another 4-year old - Exceller. Slew's record in stakes races as a 4-year old was 3 wins and 2 losses. By contrast at age 4, Affirmed won 6 of 8, while Bid was 9-0. Slew never even competed against older horses when he was a 3-year old, let alone against great older horses like Forego who was still racing at that time.
I used to have to listen to Marshall Cassidy's god-awful calls in 1981 at OTB with no video (that came in 1985).