Thank you for teaching me about writing better prose, using an active voice instead of a passive voice, and getting rid of empty openers. So helpful with my writing. 😊
I know I'm finding this video very late, but it changed everything for me in editing my manuscript. The explanation about "telling" in prose as "reporting on the scene" really spoke to me. And I also had too many -ing verbs!
Starting (😬) a sentence with an "ing" ending word can be used once in about in every 10k words. OK, gotcha! I choose to use my allowance NOW, at 10:29, Tip 3. "Hearing about the coming rain, John turned off the sprinkler." This sounds more "immediate" (to me anyway) than the other two, or perhaps it has more of a sense of urgency for John to take action. The two sentences above sound like John is acting on second-hand information, hear-say, or even a rumo(u)r, and he is acting because of it. Using (oops) the pp in this case "Hearing," it sounds like John is doing the hearing "with his own ears" and turned off the sprinkler because HE had direct knowledge. That's my take on it anyway, it rolls off the tongue better---if that's worth anything. I agree with all the other examples you presented. Loved the video, it's fun! Thanx.
Good spotting. That wasn't a good example for me to use in the 'don't do' context because it is an instance where starting with an 'ing' ending participle actually works quite well for the reasons you say. I find coming up with examples on the fly during a conversation isn't easy.
You ladies are amazing! I've recently come to terms with how weak my prose are in general, and it's as if I'm starting from ground zero 😂. But, this video was so well done, easy to follow, and it encouraged me a lot! I've been writing for myself for so many years to get plots and characters fleshed out, so now that I'm working to get things written and published, i started to get discouraged. This is a wonderful video to help pick myself up. Thank you!
Loved these tips with comparative examples! My question is: when using ed sentences, “john walked, sarah smiled,” how do you avoid it getting repetitive? I think a lot of novice writers use the present participle to begin sentences to break up the repetition of subject verb sentences.
Sometimes using a present participle beginning a sentence works well. The advice is not to overdo it. Once in 10,000 words is fine, and it works well if the 'ing' is an internal something, like thinking or feeling something because that can happen while another action happens. On top of that there are many other sentence construction available that the 'John walked' structure. This is why working with a line editor is so important, even if you only can pay them for 3 chapters, you can learn from them and do it yourself for the rest of the book.
This oio a very useful video an I hold up my hand and admit that I have sometimes used the was-ing constructiontoo often . I will watch this video and apply the principles.
Great video. Do you have a companion video planned that examines when to use passive voice? I think the exceptions are where the flavor of voice shines through.
I’m feeling frustrated. My writing is filled with “and” and “but” and short sentences. I’m looking for ways to vary my sentences, but most of your advice is to use “and” or break the sentence into two. I’m back to square one. Can you give some advice on how to make good long sentences without using “and”, “but”, “when” and “as”?
Great tips and thank you..... Sadly I knew all these things.... However as a non native speaker, the main problem i face is description..... I am poor in describing the looks of a person, the scenery, the houses etc...... How to solve this problem??
What could be an exception with the participle "ing" for example you are describing children playing in a garden and you write "they were running, jumping, pushing each other as energetic they were..." Is that acceptable? Or too many "ing" with this phrase?
Prose is equally as important as story. And it’s really annoying to read a book and then they use so many adjectives and adverbs. And words like “just” “actually” or use “started to” “feel” “she hears” “he saw”. Or too many verbs to be. Not specific enough. So many amateur mistakes and it ruins a novel for me. The worst is when they state the characters emotions: “he shook his fist with anger”.
oh man i'm glad i'm not the only one who can't stand sentences starting with present participles. it makes it so obvious someone's *trying* to vary their sentence structure, but not really understanding what makes sentences flow nicely. any sentence structures that combine two clauses, really. YEAH the periodic sentence. though i do prefer the 'inferior' sentence in tip 5. i think it sounds nicer and the delay feels more fitting.
One problem with number 7 is that both sentences are bad. Head shakes and frowns are cliché. There are better ways to show an emotional reaction and often it's not necessary because the dialogue and situation indicates emotions. People use to many empty reaction beats with cliché eye movements and the like. Readers need to know what the protag feels and not what they see or where eyes are pointed or what lips are doing unless it invokes feelings that move the story.
@@Alpha1_Isolde Think about it this way. Do people notice internally or comment on smiles to themselves or others? Rarely. We don't notice smiles in others or we take it for granted. Do you ever say to your self, "he smiled at me." or say to anther, "Did you see the way she smiled at me? It must mean something." Smiles and head nods/eye directions are lazy and cheap ways to show emotional responses but are sometimes necessary when used specifically for a purpose which often the writer hasn't done. Rather, smiles are used as an unnecessary action beat. Many novel don't use the word at all. When smiles don't appear the reader won't notice. When they show up to much, and not well, it ejects the reader.
Not necessarily. Nothing in writing is that cut and dried. Depends on how well those present participle beginning sentences are used. Are they combining two actions that can't be done at the same time? (ie impossible and therefore jarring.) Are they grammatically correct? Or do they combine an inner action (like thinking) with an outer action, which is a good use of the construction, and are so smoothy flowing with the rest of the writing that you don't notice it? And are we talking about 20 or 200? The point for authors is to be aware that it's a construction to use occaisonally and not to overdo it.
The more authors are aware of all these tips, the better global writing industry becomes. Thank you! Best regards from Ukraine. There's a big blackout!
For tip 7 In limited 3rd person pov don't we want the character's interpretation of what's happening rather than just objective facts of what is happening?
The first example preferred by these UA-camrs is bad: "The trees were shouting for help while she painfully ran through them, not agile enough to pass between them. Her visit was a major event as the trees were shy and usually quiet. -> Her crashing into tree trunks explains why the trees were shouting for help. Probably better versions: - She shouted for help while running through the forest. OR - "Help! Help!" She shouted as she dodged around another tree, jumping over exposed roots. She hoped the obstacles slowed her persuers. She knew the forest was better choice than open fields or the road where their vehicles would make escape impossible. "Running through tree" is painful. "Running through forest" is less painful, until attempting to run through a tree. "Trees shouting" is major event, might change genre, as people do not normally hear trees shouting. These UA-camrs should have their advice checked by a professional fiction editor before releasing videos. Starting with obvious bad advice detracts from expectation that later advice might have value. 20221012
@@BooksForever @3:58 "She ran through the trees shouting for help." You suggest a comma belongs after "trees" which the reader ignored? She barely paused between words to distinguish between the S in "trees" and SH in "shouting". A comma would not solve the issue: could change shouting subject from "trees" to "she", or be style choice suggesting to take a breath: "I saw bakers, baking pies." The comma changes emphasis to my seeing bakers ["I saw bakers"] instead of my seeing them being busy ["I saw (bakers baking)"]. When thought is required to identify which noun matches a verb, split sentences to clarify. Do not make readers think about grammar, ruining immersion in a story. Do you deny that my "better versions" are better? Pedantry is demonstrating knowledge by strictly enforcing rules. Which is what everyone here is attempting. Your insult is that I succeeded? When criticizing how to write English, avoid misspellings. "Comma" has 2 Ms. 20230812
If a writer NEEDS a line editor in order to develop good flowy prose, they need to change their writing style or get better. Anne Rice and many other writers never even needed any type of editor other than a proof reader.
I don't know the details of Anne Rice's writing education, but for sure some people do write beautiful prose naturally. The trouble is that we may think our work only needs a proofread, but really it needs more. So it's a good idea to get a professional to look at your prose sooner rather than later - even if it's only a few chapters. They can then confirm that your book only needs a proofread or show you how a few tweaks could turn pedestrian prose into something really engageing.
"She stood," in the corrected example, is stage direction and also not necessary. Her standing is implied. How else will she get to the park unless she is in a wheel chair?
Thank you for teaching me about writing better prose, using an active voice instead of a passive voice, and getting rid of empty openers. So helpful with my writing. 😊
I'm pleased we could help.
This was very helpful! Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Particularly appreciate the use of concrete examples to kickoff each tip. Definitely helpful, thank you!
I'm glad you found them helpful.
This is the first video that actually gave me helpful tips. Thank you so much for making it easy to understand!
Glad it was helpful!
This is one of the most valuable writing advice videos I've seen. Very helpful, thanks!
I know I'm finding this video very late, but it changed everything for me in editing my manuscript. The explanation about "telling" in prose as "reporting on the scene" really spoke to me. And I also had too many -ing verbs!
Glad it helped!
This is the first time I am understanding how to take out -to be words. Thanks so much.
Starting (😬) a sentence with an "ing" ending word can be used once in about in every 10k words. OK, gotcha! I choose to use my allowance NOW, at 10:29, Tip 3. "Hearing about the coming rain, John turned off the sprinkler." This sounds more "immediate" (to me anyway) than the other two, or perhaps it has more of a sense of urgency for John to take action. The two sentences above sound like John is acting on second-hand information, hear-say, or even a rumo(u)r, and he is acting because of it. Using (oops) the pp in this case "Hearing," it sounds like John is doing the hearing "with his own ears" and turned off the sprinkler because HE had direct knowledge. That's my take on it anyway, it rolls off the tongue better---if that's worth anything. I agree with all the other examples you presented. Loved the video, it's fun! Thanx.
Good spotting. That wasn't a good example for me to use in the 'don't do' context because it is an instance where starting with an 'ing' ending participle actually works quite well for the reasons you say. I find coming up with examples on the fly during a conversation isn't easy.
This must be the best video on this on the internet
Thanks. I hope heaps of authors read it so we all have better books to read.
Man, never thought I could find writing tips from Dianne Wiest so interesting! Seriously though, that was really great, thank you.
Great show not tell ladies thanks this has made more sense to me than a very expensive course I took.
Thank you ladies.
Our pleasure
Excellent! It's great to see someone explaining how to "Prose" properly.
You ladies are amazing! I've recently come to terms with how weak my prose are in general, and it's as if I'm starting from ground zero 😂.
But, this video was so well done, easy to follow, and it encouraged me a lot!
I've been writing for myself for so many years to get plots and characters fleshed out, so now that I'm working to get things written and published, i started to get discouraged. This is a wonderful video to help pick myself up.
Thank you!
Thanks. I'm so glad you found it helpful.
I'm happy to see a useful videos that brings solutions to my writing style and prose...
Loved these tips with comparative examples! My question is: when using ed sentences, “john walked, sarah smiled,” how do you avoid it getting repetitive? I think a lot of novice writers use the present participle to begin sentences to break up the repetition of subject verb sentences.
Sometimes using a present participle beginning a sentence works well. The advice is not to overdo it. Once in 10,000 words is fine, and it works well if the 'ing' is an internal something, like thinking or feeling something because that can happen while another action happens. On top of that there are many other sentence construction available that the 'John walked' structure. This is why working with a line editor is so important, even if you only can pay them for 3 chapters, you can learn from them and do it yourself for the rest of the book.
great video. thanks for sharing
Thank you 🙏🏼 So many great tips!
5:00 At least as an isolated sentence, I liked the sentence that started with a participle.
Great video, I definitely overuse "as". Never thought about it before!
This oio a very useful video an I hold up my hand and admit that I have sometimes used the was-ing constructiontoo often . I will watch this video and apply the principles.
Nice to hear you are open to learning.
Thanks for this! Visual examples really help me understand this.
i thoroughly enjoyed this video! it was humorous and very informative. i just subscribed to your channel. :)
I’m with you. I need SEVEN.
THANK YOU LADIES THIS WAS GREAT!
Have you a link to the books featured please.
Great video. Do you have a companion video planned that examines when to use passive voice? I think the exceptions are where the flavor of voice shines through.
1. Listening to you ladies, really peaked my interest.
OR
2. I loved every moment of your revealing conversation!
Yours Truly,
A HOPEFUL writer. 🖐️☺️👍
I love the purple shirt. Do you get it--like purple prose? 😂😂 I see you Tahlia!
I’m feeling frustrated. My writing is filled with “and” and “but” and short sentences. I’m looking for ways to vary my sentences, but most of your advice is to use “and” or break the sentence into two. I’m back to square one. Can you give some advice on how to make good long sentences without using “and”, “but”, “when” and “as”?
Great tips and thank you..... Sadly I knew all these things.... However as a non native speaker, the main problem i face is description..... I am poor in describing the looks of a person, the scenery, the houses etc...... How to solve this problem??
What makes good prose is reading Shrunk and White until it sinks in such as: "Use the fewest words possible..."
I think he says ‘omit needless words’, which is just a perfect example of the principle in action!
I do believe you mean Strunk and White.😉
Yays! I'm doing it right!
What could be an exception with the participle "ing" for example you are describing children playing in a garden and you write "they were running, jumping, pushing each other as energetic they were..." Is that acceptable? Or too many "ing" with this phrase?
Prose is equally as important as story. And it’s really annoying to read a book and then they use so many adjectives and adverbs. And words like “just” “actually” or use “started to” “feel” “she hears” “he saw”. Or too many verbs to be. Not specific enough. So many amateur mistakes and it ruins a novel for me. The worst is when they state the characters emotions: “he shook his fist with anger”.
What if one begins to laugh but is stopped short by someone, as if to signal it’s an inappropriate time for that?
oh man i'm glad i'm not the only one who can't stand sentences starting with present participles. it makes it so obvious someone's *trying* to vary their sentence structure, but not really understanding what makes sentences flow nicely. any sentence structures that combine two clauses, really. YEAH the periodic sentence.
though i do prefer the 'inferior' sentence in tip 5. i think it sounds nicer and the delay feels more fitting.
One problem with number 7 is that both sentences are bad. Head shakes and frowns are cliché. There are better ways to show an emotional reaction and often it's not necessary because the dialogue and situation indicates emotions. People use to many empty reaction beats with cliché eye movements and the like. Readers need to know what the protag feels and not what they see or where eyes are pointed or what lips are doing unless it invokes feelings that move the story.
@@Alpha1_Isolde Think about it this way. Do people notice internally or comment on smiles to themselves or others? Rarely. We don't notice smiles in others or we take it for granted. Do you ever say to your self, "he smiled at me." or say to anther, "Did you see the way she smiled at me? It must mean something." Smiles and head nods/eye directions are lazy and cheap ways to show emotional responses but are sometimes necessary when used specifically for a purpose which often the writer hasn't done. Rather, smiles are used as an unnecessary action beat. Many novel don't use the word at all. When smiles don't appear the reader won't notice. When they show up to much, and not well, it ejects the reader.
Clicking on the video, he hoped to learn the secret to better prose 😅
So every novel ever written (of about 90,000 words) that used an “ing” verb to start a sentence more than 9 times is bad. Okay.
Not necessarily. Nothing in writing is that cut and dried. Depends on how well those present participle beginning sentences are used. Are they combining two actions that can't be done at the same time? (ie impossible and therefore jarring.) Are they grammatically correct? Or do they combine an inner action (like thinking) with an outer action, which is a good use of the construction, and are so smoothy flowing with the rest of the writing that you don't notice it? And are we talking about 20 or 200? The point for authors is to be aware that it's a construction to use occaisonally and not to overdo it.
The more authors are aware of all these tips, the better global writing industry becomes.
Thank you!
Best regards from Ukraine.
There's a big blackout!
Absolutely. That's why we make these videos.
For tip 7
In limited 3rd person pov don't we want the character's interpretation of what's happening rather than just objective facts of what is happening?
It's not terrible. It's just writing. It's terrible in a couple of person's opinion.
Clicking on the SUBSCRIBE button, I was feeling gratified that I would be supporting your channel. Wut? O_o
" Like a shoot" ????? All the example you give sound terrible to me
I don't like some of them either. It's hard to come up with good ones on the fly during a conversation like this.
Why cut the music from the prose?
'music'? I don't know what you mean. These tips are about creating beautiful writing.
The first example preferred by these UA-camrs is bad: "The trees were shouting for help while she painfully ran through them, not agile enough to pass between them. Her visit was a major event as the trees were shy and usually quiet.
-> Her crashing into tree trunks explains why the trees were shouting for help.
Probably better versions:
- She shouted for help while running through the forest.
OR
- "Help! Help!" She shouted as she dodged around another tree, jumping over exposed roots. She hoped the obstacles slowed her persuers. She knew the forest was better choice than open fields or the road where their vehicles would make escape impossible.
"Running through tree" is painful.
"Running through forest" is less painful, until attempting to run through a tree.
"Trees shouting" is major event, might change genre, as people do not normally hear trees shouting.
These UA-camrs should have their advice checked by a professional fiction editor before releasing videos. Starting with obvious bad advice detracts from expectation that later advice might have value.
20221012
Being intentionally obtuse is bad enough, but ignoring a coma is the unforgivable end of your attempt at pedantry.
@@BooksForever @3:58 "She ran through the trees shouting for help." You suggest a comma belongs after "trees" which the reader ignored? She barely paused between words to distinguish between the S in "trees" and SH in "shouting". A comma would not solve the issue: could change shouting subject from "trees" to "she", or be style choice suggesting to take a breath:
"I saw bakers, baking pies." The comma changes emphasis to my seeing bakers ["I saw bakers"] instead of my seeing them being busy ["I saw (bakers baking)"].
When thought is required to identify which noun matches a verb, split sentences to clarify. Do not make readers think about grammar, ruining immersion in a story.
Do you deny that my "better versions" are better?
Pedantry is demonstrating knowledge by strictly enforcing rules. Which is what everyone here is attempting. Your insult is that I succeeded?
When criticizing how to write English, avoid misspellings. "Comma" has 2 Ms.
20230812
If a writer NEEDS a line editor in order to develop good flowy prose, they need to change their writing style or get better. Anne Rice and many other writers never even needed any type of editor other than a proof reader.
I don't know the details of Anne Rice's writing education, but for sure some people do write beautiful prose naturally. The trouble is that we may think our work only needs a proofread, but really it needs more. So it's a good idea to get a professional to look at your prose sooner rather than later - even if it's only a few chapters. They can then confirm that your book only needs a proofread or show you how a few tweaks could turn pedestrian prose into something really engageing.
sprinker
"She stood," in the corrected example, is stage direction and also not necessary. Her standing is implied. How else will she get to the park unless she is in a wheel chair?