Ahhh, enjoying the thrill of realizing how fun muzzle loading is, eh? As a muzzleloader enthusiast, watching you come to the realization that you can indeed load whatever fits down the barrel made me grin and say, "Yup, versatile huh? You'll almost never run out of ammo with a muzzleloader and ammo is free if you want it to be." Old fashion has it's perks. 😏
Welp, you can re-use shot. You can use rusty silverware, rocks, etc. You can make your own powder for free. You can make caps if you so desire. Easy to clean. Just run hot water down the barrel. Truly the gun for a survivalist. Plus, not having to carry brass cases makes it a lot lighter, and you can store more ammo.
For those who have never fired a black powder gun, the recoil from a black powder gun is very different than that of a shotgun or large caliber rifle. It is more of a push feeling. I load my 50 caliber black powder with 80 grains of powder (measured by volume). I also shoot a 270 rifle. The black powder is much nicer to shoot and will kill a deer just as quickly as my 270.
I hand load 12g shells the same way that David Canterbury demonstrates, my usual load is 75gr of Pyrodex RS under 75gr of .177 steel BBs. I find that cotton pads normally used for nail polish make excellent wadding, both for over powder and over shot. To me, it has a similar kick to typical smokeless shotshells.
Using slingshot steel and BB steel can score the barrel. It is really best to use lead shot. Modern steel shot uses a thick plastic cup to carry shot through the barrel.
If your going to make a quick second shot, the last thing you do is to remove the primer. If there are any embers left you just introduced oxygen to it, when you pour powder you will have what is called a "cook off" where the powder ignites and burns your hand. In my 19 years of reenacting this is drilled into our heads for safety sake, and I have had many go off next to me. Just trying to keep you safe so you can make more quality videos like this one. Cheers
10:51 i can relate. Whether i just kicked out of a cool wave during surfing, catching a nice fish, or if I just layed some nice brush strokes while oil painting a picture.. that's exactly how I laugh when I'm happy, playing with my toys as well.
Essentially a good shotgun modification, quite good idea to use blackpowder setup for people that not used to handle smokeless powder full recoil, since blackpowder kick less. I'd love to see how well that thing to handle slug version, to see it potential
The H&R muzzleloader used a standard nipple, and powder fouling could freeze the firing pin in a protruded position, causing the gun to fire when closed. Looks like this provides a much better seal.
Made my own that takes up the whole chamber. I shoot 1 3/8 oz. musket balls from it (NO CHOKE NEF) with a pressure seal of course. Thanks for the entertaining video!....
Thank you. I was thinking it’s ridiculous that a single shot and a muzzle loader were so similar than they couldn’t do both. Now I know a single shot can become a muzzleloader.
I've been muzzle loading for 20 some years and I like this toy. Try loading up to @ 110grns of ffg and use a Winchester AA plastic wad between the powder and shot(1 1/8oz) then use an overshot card or wax paper in a pinch.
@@ZRUSOutdoorsChannel not sure. Joel Wolfe has a reply @ 5 comments down that says the package states no slugs. I would tie it to a tree first if it's gonna blow.
@@sluggou812beotch oh for sure, going against anything that the warning label states is a risk to anyone involved. Also, reloading in general is a risk one takes upon themselves. That being said. knowledge is power and id like to do some reading on it first. and of course, if i ever tried it, all precautions are gonna be taken.
If you are going to put cards and wads in the barrel you may as well just reload a 12G shell with black powder, a piece of wooden dowel with a cut off screw in the end acts as a great depriming tool.
Very Kool !!! Glad to see the primer being the last step in the loading process. I save old ball bearing from jobs at work. I worry about the hardness of the balls causing damage to the barrel. Which I'm sure would happen if shot very much. Great video !!!
A perfect video on WHAT NO TO DO! He shot steel projectiles in a bare shot gun bore and lead in a bare bore is not bad but steel will score and damage the bore right quick! The shot cup in a shotgun shell protects the bore, and for steel shot (like the BB's he used) they have special thicker shot cups! Also, he lost most all the pressure as there was no gas seal (over the powder & under the shot) and the powder just blew through the paper wadding, and sort of, or just kind of, took the shot along with it!
archangel20031 I shoot steel and lead out of my Pedersoli 10 and 12, card wad, felt wad 1/2” thick, shot, overshot card. No problem and recommend by Pedersoli
@@larainebarton2103 So, the fact that I disagree about this guy that has, by his own words never reloaded a shotgun or had any experience with muzzle loaders posted a video like he knew what he was doing makes me a TROLL? My first gun was a TC Hawkens that I got in, somewhere between 1980, and 1982 just before I joined the USMC, and have been reloading for over a decade now, pistol, rifle and shotgun! And if someone who can barely afford putting gas in his car to get to work decides to invest in one, even though it's only $100, to them it might be a small fortune and good advice can make all the difference.
You can easily use FFF black powder in a shotgun if the shotgun is made for smokeless. (F is the slowest burning quality, FF is for black powder rifles and shotguns, FFF is for black powder pistols/revolvers. )
I gotcha, im still new to this. Ive read that FFF is for pistol, so i assumed it to be the same rules for reloading with smokeless powders (pistol powder burns faster, rifle powder burns slower.)
You should try unwashed sheep's wool as wadding the Naturaloils in the wool help to make cleaning a lot Easier. I like your set up way better then mine I us a cut out 12 gauge shell for my shooting but will definitely give this a try so much Easier.
To add a bit here: unwashed sheep wool is often used in black powder smoothbores, as wadding. Also tow, which if you can find it, is what was used in the 18th century, because it was common in that era. Also, patching made from undyed linen, which today is a rare find, was the most common patch material used in the 18th and 19th centuries. I have some for my flintlock rifles, but it wasn't easy to find.
I just use a primed 12 gauge hull with the plastic cut away around an inch up from the base. My gun has an external hammer that needs to be cocked prior to shooting, so it is safe enough to load.
There is a gun shop near me that used to take undesirable double barrel shotguns pin and weld these into them and make Mad Max sawed-off shotguns that were black powder only similar to the AR-15 conversions for black powder excetera excetera they would take $200 guns $170 for the two adapters and sell them for like seven hundred bucks
Black Powder is a lot of fun. This set up is easy and I would say cheap to do. And you are having way to much fun..LOL..Happy Thanksgiving to You and Your Family
There are lead 4,5 or 5,5mm (I'm European, for you .177 or .22) round pellets usually made by Gamo that won't damage the interior of the barrel as the steel pellets eventually will do, for sure. Beware of it. Of course for hunting small game you should buy for example #6 birdshot or smaller.
You didn't get much of a kick because you lose a lot of pressure with only a piece of wadded wax paper for your over powder wad. That needs to be a hard card that fits the bore. At least 1/8 th in thick at a minimum. Top that with a cushion wad of about 1/2 in. If doing this without a shell, they should be 11 guage size. Wadded wax paper will work for the overshot card, but depending on how much you use it can leave holes in the pattern. If not enough, the shot will dribble out (overshot cards work better). If using steel shot, you need to use a shot cup to protect the bore. And, no, a 12 guage shot cup won't work by itself. It doesn't seal in the powder. You might experiment with a regular shot cup on top of the over powder card. You will know when you get it right because the kick, while slower, should approach that of a regular shell.
Also, 85 grains could be a little light. I usually shoot 90 grains for most of my muzzleloaders. I’m not sure what would be a maximum load for his setup, wax paper wadding would keep the pressures low for an increase in powder and with tighter waddling I would lower the measure. (I have no clue what a safe pressure is for a standard shotgun)
@@danielrivers1975 - Standard amount of powder using black would be 82 grains (this is what the standard "dram equivalent" conversion comes to). Allowable grains of black for a 12 guage would be in the range of 70 to 110 grains of black. Most of the later made replicas come barrel stamped with "82 grains". With a 28 guage less powder needed for performance. Could start with 50 grains. Old timers typically used what they called a "square load". They used the same measuring scoop for both the shot and the powder. 3/4 oz of shot would use that same scoop volume wise for powder and they would go as high as 1&1/2 oz. Shot volume = powder volume = square load. Interesting tidbit. The starting load for rifles was arrived at by placing a caliber sized round ball in the palm of the hand and then covering it with black powder until the ball was just out of view. Then they measured the powder, and that was the starting load for that particular rifle.
@@JoeMac1983 - The difference between 209 muzzleloader primers and 209 shotgun primers, as I understand it, is that the muzzleloader primers are supposedly balanced better for black powder than regular 209's. Personally, I can't see any real difference between the two other than the muzzleloader primers seem to be a tiny bit less hot. I use regular 209's, but muzzleloader 209's would be fine.
That works well in a pinch, however the adapter seals the chamber better and you'll see better accuracy with Roundball. Especially if you've got a rifled slug barrel.
You can even use rifle 209 primers in that empty hull. I always put the primer in first. Nothing to trigger it, as it is the firing pin that makes it go bang. I am proud, that you did not do the "stupid" and cut off your choke, like many I see on here, making a "survival shotgun". I think that fancy rail on top is throwing off your aim a bit. Good video!
You would be surprised at the recoil you can get from Black powder. I’m willing to bet you can safely use 120grain powder charges out of that thing. Pretty cool concept. And you can just fire a regular shell when done to help clean the fowling.
One of the best videos I've seen here in 15 years! I never knew about this adapter and you answered a question I didn't even have. Could you buy/cast slugs and shoot them because all I've seen people shoot is varying sizes of shot?
I love the scope mount mod on your H&R, nice! Also, since the Hatfield was designed for smokeless powder, there's no reason you couldn't use it in the ML setup either. You'd just have to look at shotgun reloading data for the right powder grain load. I used to shoot trap and reloaded my own shot shells. One of my loads for my 12ga was using 700x at 17 grains of powder and 1 oz of shot.
You really don’t want to do that. Without the shell to seal, the hot gas from the flash will leak out around the adapter and is very dangerous to the user
@@sethmullins8346 Well, it would be an interesting experiment. I do know of one fellow on UA-cam, I'll see if I can find his videos and post the title of one here later. He takes 45/70 centerfire single shot rifles and converts them into muzzleloaders by threading the breech and adding a threaded insert. They use smokeless powder. Apparently they work great for him and his customers. But he points out the disaster that can happen if there is an overload of smokeless because one of his customers accidentally loaded a double charge of smokeless powder and his barrel fractured. But then, that would have happened even with an overloaded cartridge. I also know of a modern inline bolt action muzzleloader that is capable of using smokeless powder, but can't remember the make atm, might be a Remington. I'll have to look it up. Also, FWIW, back in the 70's H&R made a muzzleloader called the Huntsman (BP Only) but its breech plug was not threaded, it was just an aluminum plug threaded for a percussion cap nipple with an O ring to keep it in place in the breech, same as the adapter shown in the video above.
Should use proper wadding and overshot cards. His load was a little light, but know that pyrodex is not black powder. It is a little cleaner, but the load data is not the same. Anyway, these shotgun inserts, including pistol cartridges and others are pretty neat.
What if you had premade loads with powder and shot all wrapped in a paper "cardridge" you could simply drop in and give a tap with the ram and then place a primer and ready to shoot? You could actually have a pouch of em and save a lot of time between shots? Would that work? Not sure how to do such but I think militaries did something like that way back when....no?
@@cvcoco I'm guessing there are higher pressures involved when firing a slug or patched round ball. The manufacturer is not willing to accept liability for these applications.
*For steel shot in a shotgun... TO PREVENT PEENING DAMAGE TO BARREL AND CHOKE. you really need to protect the barrel steel from the hard steel shot with a properly thick steel rated wad with shotcup.... SO, ideally with black powder it is powder, hard waxed cork, ramrod, shotcup, ramrod, shot , overshot card... ramrod again.... with lead shot the shotcup is optional.*
without a ribbed barrel, you will tend to shoot low patterns. Just adjust your head so you don't cheek so low, and it will pattern right on. Imagine it has a ribbed barrel that gets higher at the back.
yes ... www.ballisticproducts.com sells 12 ga Pumpkin Balls you can shoot but you should really check out this thing they call a "Thug Slug". with 100 grains BP it will drop any big game you want to hunt in North America
In all these cases of the various adapters, we are talking about a single shot 12g and not a pump or any other type of shotgun? And, if a person has an inline muzzleloader like a CVA, can the .22 adapter be used in those or does that involve another type of adapter that hasnt been invented yet?
you could in theory put this into a pump. It is after all a shotgun barrel. But some Pump shotguns have dual extractors and will remove the adapter after each shot.. might not be a bad thing.. As for the CVA and adapters, i dont know enough about their design to confirm. thats a direct question for Gunadapters.com you might have just given them an idea..
you could. The difference is that the primer would have to be knocked out of the shell each time instead of it falling right out of this adapter. Also, the brass shell life is much shorter than the life long expectancy of this adapter. so, yes, you can, but this is just easier in the long run.
They got them in stock now as of this comment !! I got mine on the way now and ordered about 3 days ago so i guess they only make a small batch of any products and i check daily for availability on something I wanna collect !!!!
since smokeless powder is WAY more volatile than black powder, it would be a bit unsafe to muzzle load in the field with smokeless powder. the smallest amount of extra powder can lead to dangerous pressures in the chamber. Also, placing the shot so close to the smokeless powder creates more pressure as well.. Black powder is a little more forgiving in these areas. That being said, I wouldnt try it.
The shot gun has a safety n a hammer,2 safetys,the primer goes on first,that's why he edited video every time he went to open and put on primer,to clean out all the pyrodex that came out of the primer hole
Aaron Brand black powder is quite corse. You may lose a minuscule amount, but it’s mostly too big to fall through the primer hole once compacted into the chamber
@@ZRUSOutdoorsChannel Using your H&R single shot like Dave Cantebury does puts his primer in first because it does have the transfer safety bar allowing it to be safe and you're not chunking very hard either way down on the powder against the primer so I'm gonna load my primer in first just like good ole Dave does !!!! No offense ZRUS sir !!!!
*For 12 ga muzzle loader you probably need 11 ga corks over powder...and 11 ga card over shot. ...The slightly larger 11 gage components give a better seal with brass cartridge or muzzle loaders...* Waxed paper or denim/other fabric... will probably throw a donut shaped pattern with a hole in the middle.... due to powder burning through the thin wadding.
BP, OPC , FW (cut into 5 pieces), Shot, OSC, will eliminate the donut. Edit: Using a single cork or fiber wad not cut into pieces will create a donut. Using a couple of raw wool or flax for towe (wadded up into a ball) will also eliminate it. However, the waxed paper, denim ect.. can still be used for over shot.
What I do for wads sometimes is roll up a paper towel to the approximate diameter of the bore and cut it into pieces a certain length and basically make wads.
Not as convenient but much cheaper, a person could simulate the black powder experience by cutting the plastic off a shell and use the brass/steel base as the primer holder and again a 3/4" wooden short wooden dowel with a wood screw cut off at the end makes a great depriming tool. Also I don't understand why a paper patched 69 caliber lead ball can't be used with this adapter, would love to know the reasoning why the manufacturer says no slugs..
@littlebiscuits My thinking exactly. And you could carry a bunch of pre primed case ends. For a 12ga I believe it's pretty close to the .75 cal Brown Bess and would likely use similar charges. Also, I think in order for shotguns to fire slugs, they need to be 'cylinder bore' as too tight a choke at the muzzle end, might not allow a slug to pass through.
What about loading slugs for deer hunting ? After watching several of these conversion videos , there is no mention of loading slugs... Also , what about using a rifle barreled Partner , which we own ? Appreciate youre efforts, thanks.
i wouldnt use this in a rifled barrel with shot, It will throw the pattern wildly. Nor would i be comfortable using round ball in a rifled barrel. Unless i knew exactly the inner diameter of the bore to rifling and diameter of the ball in use, and the exact amount of powder to do it all safely. Its one thing to shoot loose shot through a smooth bore, but a round ball load needs a little more research on my part.
In a survival situation where you can't get primers All you need is a hose clamp and a Grill ignitor Clamp it on tight feed the wire through The 209 adapter Oh and you're gonna want to lay down a small piece of rubber under the grill igniter before Clamping it down To avoid shock
I took a look in there afterwards, no issues, I think it would be a different story if it was a full choke, but theres nothing that looks damaged in there.. not to mention its a $100 shotgun.
@@ZRUSOutdoorsChannel you said yourself you've never reloaded shotshells or "anything having to do with reloading shotguns" before... I've reloaded thousands of rounds, especially steel shot and read just about everything there is to read about reloading steel shot, and can tell you that what you're doing goes against the book. Get a steel shot, or any shotshell reloading manual (Lyman #5) and learn how to properly reload before doing something that might hurt you or your gun.
Keith Gee I waited a whole year for you to respond to my words. I’m sorry Keith, I’ve moved on now. If you were serious about us you shouldn’t have taken so long. I’ll always remember you, Keith.
@@ZRUSOutdoorsChannel scoured the site and it doesn't look like they have it anymore. I am interested in it though.I already have their stack-n-pack. I also have the Midlands backpacker. Thanks again for making the video.
I think you’re experiencing low recoil because you have the overshot wadding so loose. If the load is just barely in the gun meaning you could hold the gun upside down and bump the barrel and dislodge the entire shot load. When no pressure builds the recoil is felt. It’s like firing a blank.
@ZRUS Outdoors Chicken droppings, sulfur and charcoal. All you need to make Black Powder at home...just like great great grandpa did. The recipe can be found at Backwoodsman Magazine.
@@ZRUSOutdoorsChannel lots of videos on UA-cam show how to make Black Powder. The chicken droppings are dried and processed for the Nitrate. Nitrste,Sulfur, Charcoal....easy peasy.
@@brotherbrovet1881 This reminds me of the movie "fight club".. when they are talking about how easy it is to make napalm, or making soap. I dont know if you seen that movie, but its great.. sorry, i had to bring that up, seemed relevant.
Shotgun loads using black powder or substitutes were typically what is referred to as a "square" load. The measuring dipper used for the shot was also used for the powder. So, 3/4, 1 oz, 1&1/4, etc, for the shot load, the volume of black powder is the same as the volume of shot. This means that typical shotgun loads range from around 70 grains of black to around 100 grains of black. I'm stressing black powder here because you CANNOT do the same thing with smokeless powder. Can you "tweak" the load and vary shot or powder or both? Sure. You just have to follow safe loading practices. In most cases, though, the best and safest loads are going to be square loads. With slugs, you need to do some weight checking. Find out how much shot weighs the same as your slug, and start with a matching powder charge.
If I don't install the primer first, the powder will leak out. My H&R has a hammer block and I keep the bore pointed away from me while loading. I feel quite safe. Thanks
I enjoyed your video make some more along the same lines. As an old muzzle loader I noticed a serious error. When loading a shot gun the charge should be 1/3 black powder, 1/3 wadding and 1/3 shot. Did not look to me as if you used enough wadding over the powder .
Yep, take the 12 gauge slug shell apart,, put the empty shell in the chamber of your favorite shotgun,, pour the powder down the barrel, followed by the wad and the slug. There. you just muzzle-loaded a shotgun. . In other words disassemble the shotgun slug shell and reassemble it inside the gun.
While muzzleloader rifles start at $200, muzzleloader shotguns start at $1000. If you want to try making black powder for fun, $1000 shotgun is way too expensive, but $200 is okay.
If that's a 12 ga put 100 grains in there. Get some better wadding. Edit: I loaded similarly when I first did this. It is loads of fun, just like you're having there !
This adapter works, kinda sorta, not really. I purchased one of these and at the time I was excited about the concept of using my single shot shotguns as a muzzleloader for fun and maybe some small game hunting, the fact is it’s a fun range toy. The wax paper does not act as a proper wad over the powder and certainly not over the pellets. The chamber is much larger than the barrel making any sort of wad ineffective. If possible it would’ve been great to make this adapter two and three-quarter inches long, this might however hinder ignition. I loaded it up, walked a little bit,after about a five minute stroll ,the shot came tumbling out of the end of the barrel,you could use it for hunting, but you would have to be very careful to keep your shot gun pointed in an upward direction at all times to avoid loosing your shot. I’m just going to stick to my Pedersoli
My demonstration was as armature as it could get. I think if you would have used a better over shot wad, it would have shown through in the outcome. dont give up on it so soon.
The diameter of the shell is much larger than the diameter of the barrel, that’s what I was saying,something I didn’t think of when I purchased it, it’s nothing you did,it’s just a poor design, it works but not very well, even if you put a wad down the barrel, as soon as it hits the chamber and it expands to the diameter of the shotshell the wad will be loose tight fit, rendering it ineffective, it’s nothing you did,enjoyed your video and I wish I had watched it before I spend my money
Same problem I encountered. Good money poorly spent. I wrote the Short Lane people and asked for some solution to the problem. No answer from them. Learned an expensive lesson.
Man that was pretty awesome. So what happens and shtf if you don't have the little adapter you shot your last shotgun shell but you still have powder and firing caps? Do you know what to do? I do
I have been doing that for quite a few years for my single shot 12 GA. Works great! I bought the ShortLane adaptor because I'm a sucker for all sorts of gimmicks when it comes to my gun hobby, but have a problem with getting a good over powder and over shot card that actually works good. My reloads using BP works much better than the adapter.
Ahhh, enjoying the thrill of realizing how fun muzzle loading is, eh? As a muzzleloader enthusiast, watching you come to the realization that you can indeed load whatever fits down the barrel made me grin and say, "Yup, versatile huh? You'll almost never run out of ammo with a muzzleloader and ammo is free if you want it to be." Old fashion has it's perks. 😏
thanks for watching!
@@ZRUSOutdoorsChannel you bet!
Welp, you can re-use shot. You can use rusty silverware, rocks, etc. You can make your own powder for free. You can make caps if you so desire. Easy to clean. Just run hot water down the barrel. Truly the gun for a survivalist. Plus, not having to carry brass cases makes it a lot lighter, and you can store more ammo.
You didn’t actually say that. Cringe.
For those who have never fired a black powder gun, the recoil from a black powder gun is very different than that of a shotgun or large caliber rifle. It is more of a push feeling. I load my 50 caliber black powder with 80 grains of powder (measured by volume). I also shoot a 270 rifle. The black powder is much nicer to shoot and will kill a deer just as quickly as my 270.
I hand load 12g shells the same way that David Canterbury demonstrates, my usual load is 75gr of Pyrodex RS under 75gr of .177 steel BBs. I find that cotton pads normally used for nail polish make excellent wadding, both for over powder and over shot.
To me, it has a similar kick to typical smokeless shotshells.
Using slingshot steel and BB steel can score the barrel. It is really best to use lead shot. Modern steel shot uses a thick plastic cup to carry shot through the barrel.
If your going to make a quick second shot, the last thing you do is to remove the primer. If there are any embers left you just introduced oxygen to it, when you pour powder you will have what is called a "cook off" where the powder ignites and burns your hand. In my 19 years of reenacting this is drilled into our heads for safety sake, and I have had many go off next to me. Just trying to keep you safe so you can make more quality videos like this one. Cheers
Thanks for the tip Greg! Much appreciated.
Who needs a muzzle loader, these single shots are even better!!
thelocustemperor to get earlier deer season start
@@motobator1895 well then u can use that because it's firing black powder and is used as a muzzleloader hence it is one
That's what he said ⬆️⬆️
How did I miss this video after all these years. Cool well done.
Lol thanks! It happens
10:51 i can relate. Whether i just kicked out of a cool wave during surfing, catching a nice fish, or if I just layed some nice brush strokes while oil painting a picture.. that's exactly how I laugh when I'm happy, playing with my toys as well.
hahaha good stuff man!
Essentially a good shotgun modification, quite good idea to use blackpowder setup for people that not used to handle smokeless powder full recoil, since blackpowder kick less. I'd love to see how well that thing to handle slug version, to see it potential
The H&R muzzleloader used a standard nipple, and powder fouling could freeze the firing pin in a protruded position, causing the gun to fire when closed. Looks like this provides a much better seal.
Made my own that takes up the whole chamber. I shoot 1 3/8 oz. musket balls from it (NO CHOKE NEF) with a pressure seal of course. Thanks for the entertaining video!....
72 cal. round ball?
Thank you. I was thinking it’s ridiculous that a single shot and a muzzle loader were so similar than they couldn’t do both. Now I know a single shot can become a muzzleloader.
I've been muzzle loading for 20 some years and I like this toy. Try loading up to @ 110grns of ffg and use a Winchester AA plastic wad between the powder and shot(1 1/8oz) then use an overshot card or wax paper in a pinch.
Im gonna have to give this a try! Would you happen have any research info links that i can use to make another video using round ball in this setup?
@@ZRUSOutdoorsChannel not sure. Joel Wolfe has a reply @ 5 comments down that says the package states no slugs. I would tie it to a tree first if it's gonna blow.
@@sluggou812beotch oh for sure, going against anything that the warning label states is a risk to anyone involved. Also, reloading in general is a risk one takes upon themselves. That being said. knowledge is power and id like to do some reading on it first. and of course, if i ever tried it, all precautions are gonna be taken.
If you are going to put cards and wads in the barrel you may as well just reload a 12G shell with black powder, a piece of wooden dowel with a cut off screw in the end acts as a great depriming tool.
Very Kool !!!
Glad to see the primer being the last step in the loading process.
I save old ball bearing from jobs at work. I worry about the hardness of the balls causing damage to the barrel. Which I'm sure would happen if shot very much.
Great video !!!
Do ball bearings beat up your barrel..??
A perfect video on WHAT NO TO DO!
He shot steel projectiles in a bare shot gun bore and lead in a bare bore is not bad but steel will score and damage the bore right quick!
The shot cup in a shotgun shell protects the bore, and for steel shot (like the BB's he used) they have special thicker shot cups!
Also, he lost most all the pressure as there was no gas seal (over the powder & under the shot) and the powder just blew through the paper wadding, and sort of, or just kind of, took the shot along with it!
archangel20031 I shoot steel and lead out of my Pedersoli 10 and 12, card wad, felt wad 1/2” thick, shot, overshot card. No problem and recommend by Pedersoli
Its a 100 dollar shotgun who cares if it gets run over by a kenworth. Troll.
@@larainebarton2103 So, the fact that I disagree about this guy that has, by his own words never reloaded a shotgun or had any experience with muzzle loaders posted a video like he knew what he was doing makes me a TROLL?
My first gun was a TC Hawkens that I got in, somewhere between 1980, and 1982 just before I joined the USMC, and have been reloading for over a decade now, pistol, rifle and shotgun!
And if someone who can barely afford putting gas in his car to get to work decides to invest in one, even though it's only $100, to them it might be a small fortune and good advice can make all the difference.
You can easily use FFF black powder in a shotgun if the shotgun is made for smokeless. (F is the slowest burning quality, FF is for black powder rifles and shotguns, FFF is for black powder pistols/revolvers. )
I gotcha, im still new to this. Ive read that FFF is for pistol, so i assumed it to be the same rules for reloading with smokeless powders (pistol powder burns faster, rifle powder burns slower.)
That was too much fun! You got me hooked!
You should try unwashed sheep's wool as wadding the Naturaloils in the wool help to make cleaning a lot Easier. I like your set up way better then mine I us a cut out 12 gauge shell for my shooting but will definitely give this a try so much Easier.
Be sure to use Code "ZRUS" at check out for 10% off ! Ill have to find some of that sheeps wool !
To add a bit here: unwashed sheep wool is often used in black powder smoothbores, as wadding. Also tow, which if you can find it, is what was used in the 18th century, because it was common in that era. Also, patching made from undyed linen, which today is a rare find, was the most common patch material used in the 18th and 19th centuries. I have some for my flintlock rifles, but it wasn't easy to find.
I just use a primed 12 gauge hull with the plastic cut away around an inch up from the base. My gun has an external hammer that needs to be cocked prior to shooting, so it is safe enough to load.
I use a fired shell, cut off above brass base with new primer...Works great...although this gadget looks like fun.
There is a gun shop near me that used to take undesirable double barrel shotguns pin and weld these into them and make Mad Max sawed-off shotguns that were black powder only similar to the AR-15 conversions for black powder excetera excetera they would take $200 guns $170 for the two adapters and sell them for like seven hundred bucks
Black Powder is a lot of fun. This set up is easy and I would say cheap to do. And you are having way to much fun..LOL..Happy Thanksgiving to You and Your Family
haha, yeah it was a lot of fun! Happy thanks giving to ya!
I have only seen 3 boxes of 209 primers in the last year. I bought 2 and left one for someone else.
There are lead 4,5 or 5,5mm (I'm European, for you .177 or .22) round pellets usually made by Gamo that won't damage the interior of the barrel as the steel pellets eventually will do, for sure. Beware of it. Of course for hunting small game you should buy for example #6 birdshot or smaller.
Is there a way to convert a SXS 12ga black powder into a shotgun that will shoot shells?
You didn't get much of a kick because you lose a lot of pressure with only a piece of wadded wax paper for your over powder wad. That needs to be a hard card that fits the bore. At least 1/8 th in thick at a minimum. Top that with a cushion wad of about 1/2 in. If doing this without a shell, they should be 11 guage size. Wadded wax paper will work for the overshot card, but depending on how much you use it can leave holes in the pattern. If not enough, the shot will dribble out (overshot cards work better).
If using steel shot, you need to use a shot cup to protect the bore. And, no, a 12 guage shot cup won't work by itself. It doesn't seal in the powder. You might experiment with a regular shot cup on top of the over powder card.
You will know when you get it right because the kick, while slower, should approach that of a regular shell.
Duly noted! I did make mention that it was my first time. Ill give your input a go next time.
Also, 85 grains could be a little light. I usually shoot 90 grains for most of my muzzleloaders. I’m not sure what would be a maximum load for his setup, wax paper wadding would keep the pressures low for an increase in powder and with tighter waddling I would lower the measure. (I have no clue what a safe pressure is for a standard shotgun)
@@danielrivers1975 - Standard amount of powder using black would be 82 grains (this is what the standard "dram equivalent" conversion comes to). Allowable grains of black for a 12 guage would be in the range of 70 to 110 grains of black. Most of the later made replicas come barrel stamped with "82 grains". With a 28 guage less powder needed for performance. Could start with 50 grains.
Old timers typically used what they called a "square load". They used the same measuring scoop for both the shot and the powder. 3/4 oz of shot would use that same scoop volume wise for powder and they would go as high as 1&1/2 oz. Shot volume = powder volume = square load.
Interesting tidbit. The starting load for rifles was arrived at by placing a caliber sized round ball in the palm of the hand and then covering it with black powder until the ball was just out of view. Then they measured the powder, and that was the starting load for that particular rifle.
@@kirkboswell2575 Do you think 209 muzzleloader primers would work fine with this setup? Or do they need to be shotshell primers?
@@JoeMac1983 - The difference between 209 muzzleloader primers and 209 shotgun primers, as I understand it, is that the muzzleloader primers are supposedly balanced better for black powder than regular 209's. Personally, I can't see any real difference between the two other than the muzzleloader primers seem to be a tiny bit less hot. I use regular 209's, but muzzleloader 209's would be fine.
I cut the bottom off of empty shotgun hulls and put new 209 primers in. don't need the adapter.
That works well in a pinch, however the adapter seals the chamber better and you'll see better accuracy with Roundball. Especially if you've got a rifled slug barrel.
You can even use rifle 209 primers in that empty hull. I always put the primer in first. Nothing to trigger it, as it is the firing pin that makes it go bang. I am proud, that you did not do the "stupid" and cut off your choke, like many I see on here, making a "survival shotgun". I think that fancy rail on top is throwing off your aim a bit. Good video!
RIGHT JUST A OLD SHELL AND YOU CAN JUST RELOAD A NUMBER OF SHELLS NO RAM ROD NEEDED
You would be surprised at the recoil you can get from Black powder. I’m willing to bet you can safely use 120grain powder charges out of that thing. Pretty cool concept. And you can just fire a regular shell when done to help clean the fowling.
Did you figure the cost per shot comparison?
One of the best videos I've seen here in 15 years! I never knew about this adapter and you answered a question I didn't even have. Could you buy/cast slugs and shoot them because all I've seen people shoot is varying sizes of shot?
The Brown Bess was 72 caliber and shot a 0.690 round ball. The chamber is larger than the barrel so you will have poor accuracy.
@@samwilliams1142 Thanks Sam.
I love the scope mount mod on your H&R, nice! Also, since the Hatfield was designed for smokeless powder, there's no reason you couldn't use it in the ML setup either. You'd just have to look at shotgun reloading data for the right powder grain load. I used to shoot trap and reloaded my own shot shells. One of my loads for my 12ga was using 700x at 17 grains of powder and 1 oz of shot.
You really don’t want to do that. Without the shell to seal, the hot gas from the flash will leak out around the adapter and is very dangerous to the user
@@sethmullins8346 Well, it would be an interesting experiment. I do know of one fellow on UA-cam, I'll see if I can find his videos and post the title of one here later. He takes 45/70 centerfire single shot rifles and converts them into muzzleloaders by threading the breech and adding a threaded insert. They use smokeless powder. Apparently they work great for him and his customers. But he points out the disaster that can happen if there is an overload of smokeless because one of his customers accidentally loaded a double charge of smokeless powder and his barrel fractured. But then, that would have happened even with an overloaded cartridge. I also know of a modern inline bolt action muzzleloader that is capable of using smokeless powder, but can't remember the make atm, might be a Remington. I'll have to look it up. Also, FWIW, back in the 70's H&R made a muzzleloader called the Huntsman (BP Only) but its breech plug was not threaded, it was just an aluminum plug threaded for a percussion cap nipple with an O ring to keep it in place in the breech, same as the adapter shown in the video above.
there are all kinds of mods you can make to that shotgun on the internet...trigger, folding etc...i am going to buy one...thanks for posting!
Yeah, ive seen a few of those. They are nicely modded, think ill leave this one alone. its a decent gun for the money.
do i can use smokeless to these .as smokeless in bullet?????please need answers
I have used fff pyrodex powder. I use a slightly reduced load for it.
I, too, use FFF for most of my shooting, but truthfully anything 50 caliber or over will perform more efficiently if FF is used.
Should use proper wadding and overshot cards. His load was a little light, but know that pyrodex is not black powder. It is a little cleaner, but the load data is not the same. Anyway, these shotgun inserts, including pistol cartridges and others are pretty neat.
Cool beans. I am wondering if I can install that on a pump 12 gauge.
No
If I'm using a shotgun primer, shooting through a shotgun barrel, why can't I use shotgun (smokeless) powder? I've loaded shotshells for years.
Could this work with a lead ball
Founding fathers would be proud ✍️
Pretty cool little addition to add some options....Good stuff...
Where did you by that kind I can't find one just like that one thank for any information
Wow that's so cool. I will see how my Perrazzi barrage likes this.
I had fun watching you have fun shooting that shotgun LOL
glad you enjoyed it! Gonna have to make another video with this thing, its so much fun
I'm quite sure it would be quite safe to go up to a 100 grain square load.
What keeps the powder from from the flash hole. Pyrex is not a very course powder.
What if you had premade loads with powder and shot all wrapped in a paper "cardridge" you could simply drop in and give a tap with the ram and then place a primer and ready to shoot? You could actually have a pouch of em and save a lot of time between shots? Would that work? Not sure how to do such but I think militaries did something like that way back when....no?
maybe, if the primer was able to ignite the wrapped powder..
Would this be legal to himt with during black powder season?
Since the video have you tried one patched roundball that could be used on bigger game like deer? That would be cool if it worked
Why not just use a plastic wad and a slug?
@@sluggou812beotch The company says NO SLUGS.
@@cvcoco best not use any, huh!
@@sluggou812beotch I dont get it because other people are using large balls and arent those the same thing?
@@cvcoco I'm guessing there are higher pressures involved when firing a slug or patched round ball. The manufacturer is not willing to accept liability for these applications.
*For steel shot in a shotgun... TO PREVENT PEENING DAMAGE TO BARREL AND CHOKE. you really need to protect the barrel steel from the hard steel shot with a properly thick steel rated wad with shotcup.... SO, ideally with black powder it is powder, hard waxed cork, ramrod, shotcup, ramrod, shot , overshot card... ramrod again.... with lead shot the shotcup is optional.*
Peening isn't damage, it's work hardening.
Would a large bearing be a good projectile..to mimic a slug..
I'm thinking of doing this..then packing all parts into a used shotgun hull..
Does the wax paper keep moisture out of the powder?
How would i know how much ahot to use?
without a ribbed barrel, you will tend to shoot low patterns. Just adjust your head so you don't cheek so low, and it will pattern right on. Imagine it has a ribbed barrel that gets higher at the back.
Looks like alot of fun
Would you be able to load musket ball?
yes ... www.ballisticproducts.com sells 12 ga Pumpkin Balls you can shoot but you should really check out this thing they call a "Thug Slug". with 100 grains BP it will drop any big game you want to hunt in North America
In all these cases of the various adapters, we are talking about a single shot 12g and not a pump or any other type of shotgun? And, if a person has an inline muzzleloader like a CVA, can the .22 adapter be used in those or does that involve another type of adapter that hasnt been invented yet?
you could in theory put this into a pump. It is after all a shotgun barrel. But some Pump shotguns have dual extractors and will remove the adapter after each shot.. might not be a bad thing.. As for the CVA and adapters, i dont know enough about their design to confirm. thats a direct question for Gunadapters.com you might have just given them an idea..
So what’s keeping me from just using an old high brass shotgun shell? Seems like you could get the same result as this adapter.
you could. The difference is that the primer would have to be knocked out of the shell each time instead of it falling right out of this adapter. Also, the brass shell life is much shorter than the life long expectancy of this adapter. so, yes, you can, but this is just easier in the long run.
Wonder what kind of velocity you are getting out of it.
Where do I get the ramrod?
should be on Gunadapters website
They got them in stock now as of this comment !! I got mine on the way now and ordered about 3 days ago so i guess they only make a small batch of any products and i check daily for availability on something I wanna collect !!!!
shot mine today but dang its dirty to shoot. that being said, bore snake through and pick a little on the adapter and good to go
yeah, black powder is some dirty stuff!
Since the gun is proofed for smokeless powder shouldn't you be able to muzzle load smokeless?
since smokeless powder is WAY more volatile than black powder, it would be a bit unsafe to muzzle load in the field with smokeless powder. the smallest amount of extra powder can lead to dangerous pressures in the chamber. Also, placing the shot so close to the smokeless powder creates more pressure as well.. Black powder is a little more forgiving in these areas. That being said, I wouldnt try it.
The shot gun has a safety n a hammer,2 safetys,the primer goes on first,that's why he edited video every time he went to open and put on primer,to clean out all the pyrodex that came out of the primer hole
Yep pretty funny, what did he think would happen.😂🤭😁
I made 1 out of a 12ga high brass shell works fine and it was free
relybigguns bigguns that method works well but eventually need replaced after so many shots. This piece here is always ready. Thank you for watching!
How do you keep from losing powder if there's no primer in the hole?
Aaron Brand black powder is quite corse. You may lose a minuscule amount, but it’s mostly too big to fall through the primer hole once compacted into the chamber
@@ZRUSOutdoorsChannel Using your H&R single shot like Dave Cantebury does puts his primer in first because it does have the transfer safety bar allowing it to be safe and you're not chunking very hard either way down on the powder against the primer so I'm gonna load my primer in first just like good ole Dave does !!!! No offense ZRUS sir !!!!
@@jeffreyelliott622 no worries, I aired on the side of caution in this video for any new shooters that may be watching.
Shame we don't have these in the UK 😢
*For 12 ga muzzle loader you probably need 11 ga corks over powder...and 11 ga card over shot. ...The slightly larger 11 gage components give a better seal with brass cartridge or muzzle loaders...* Waxed paper or denim/other fabric... will probably throw a donut shaped pattern with a hole in the middle.... due to powder burning through the thin wadding.
BP, OPC , FW (cut into 5 pieces), Shot, OSC, will eliminate the donut. Edit: Using a single cork or fiber wad not cut into pieces will create a donut. Using a couple of raw wool or flax for towe (wadded up into a ball) will also eliminate it. However, the waxed paper, denim ect.. can still be used for over shot.
What I do for wads sometimes is roll up a paper towel to the approximate diameter of the bore and cut it into pieces a certain length and basically make wads.
Not as convenient but much cheaper, a person could simulate the black powder experience by cutting the plastic off a shell and use the brass/steel base as the primer holder and again a 3/4" wooden short wooden dowel with a wood screw cut off at the end makes a great depriming tool. Also I don't understand why a paper patched 69 caliber lead ball can't be used with this adapter, would love to know the reasoning why the manufacturer says no slugs..
@littlebiscuits My thinking exactly. And you could carry a bunch of pre primed case ends. For a 12ga I believe it's pretty close to the .75 cal Brown Bess and would likely use similar charges. Also, I think in order for shotguns to fire slugs, they need to be 'cylinder bore' as too tight a choke at the muzzle end, might not allow a slug to pass through.
A wooden dowel would be cheaper and not have a chance to spark (if your rod has steel sections).
When you got yourself your own officer Gregg you'd be just like Taofledermaus! :)
hahaha
What about loading slugs for deer hunting ?
After watching several of these conversion videos , there is no mention of loading slugs...
Also , what about using a rifle barreled Partner , which we own ?
Appreciate youre efforts, thanks.
i wouldnt use this in a rifled barrel with shot, It will throw the pattern wildly. Nor would i be comfortable using round ball in a rifled barrel. Unless i knew exactly the inner diameter of the bore to rifling and diameter of the ball in use, and the exact amount of powder to do it all safely. Its one thing to shoot loose shot through a smooth bore, but a round ball load needs a little more research on my part.
In a survival situation where you can't get primers All you need is a hose clamp and a Grill ignitor Clamp it on tight feed the wire through The 209 adapter Oh and you're gonna want to lay down a small piece of rubber under the grill igniter before Clamping it down To avoid shock
The inside of your barrel is getting so jacked up with all that steel shot just floating around without a plastic wad...
I took a look in there afterwards, no issues, I think it would be a different story if it was a full choke, but theres nothing that looks damaged in there.. not to mention its a $100 shotgun.
@@ZRUSOutdoorsChannel you said yourself you've never reloaded shotshells or "anything having to do with reloading shotguns" before... I've reloaded thousands of rounds, especially steel shot and read just about everything there is to read about reloading steel shot, and can tell you that what you're doing goes against the book. Get a steel shot, or any shotshell reloading manual (Lyman #5) and learn how to properly reload before doing something that might hurt you or your gun.
Keith Gee I waited a whole year for you to respond to my words. I’m sorry Keith, I’ve moved on now. If you were serious about us you shouldn’t have taken so long. I’ll always remember you, Keith.
I wonder if this makes it qualify for muzzleloader hunting season
Yes, for birds.
Interesting 🧐 thanks 🙏🏼
This is so cool! Where did you get the brass powder measuring cup?
Everything was from Gunadapters, I have a link in the description box of this video with coupon code as well !
@@ZRUSOutdoorsChannel Thanks, I looked at the site but didn't find that. I'll look again, in probably just being a dumbass lol
@@FoodForThought. it might be listed under “Accecories “ or with the 209 muzzle loading adapter. I havnt been to the site in a while.
@@ZRUSOutdoorsChannel scoured the site and it doesn't look like they have it anymore. I am interested in it though.I already have their stack-n-pack. I also have the Midlands backpacker. Thanks again for making the video.
Good fun are they available 8n Australia
I think you’re experiencing low recoil because you have the overshot wadding so loose. If the load is just barely in the gun meaning you could hold the gun upside down and bump the barrel and dislodge the entire shot load. When no pressure builds the recoil is felt. It’s like firing a blank.
Great video Brother
thanks man, I watched a few of your reloading vids to help with this video! Happy Thanks giving!
@@ZRUSOutdoorsChannel that's where you probably went wrong...
What kind of cleaning to the gun do you have to do using back powder
anything that will neutralize salt.
Do they make this for a 20 gauge?
Yes. They have a Lot of calibers
Great video. Been thinking about getting one of these. What prevents the power from coming out the primer hole until you install the primer?
the granules of black powder are fairly large in size which clogs the primer hole from allowing them to fall through.
@ZRUS Outdoors Chicken droppings, sulfur and charcoal. All you need to make Black Powder at home...just like great great grandpa did. The recipe can be found at Backwoodsman Magazine.
Ill have to look into that!
@@ZRUSOutdoorsChannel lots of videos on UA-cam show how to make Black Powder. The chicken droppings are dried and processed for the Nitrate. Nitrste,Sulfur, Charcoal....easy peasy.
@@brotherbrovet1881 This reminds me of the movie "fight club".. when they are talking about how easy it is to make napalm, or making soap. I dont know if you seen that movie, but its great.. sorry, i had to bring that up, seemed relevant.
I can shoot about 40 yds. in mine with a full choke. Thanks
Try it in a pump action
What about loading a shotgun slug? Also would the powder type and load be different than the charge for shot?
Shotgun loads using black powder or substitutes were typically what is referred to as a "square" load. The measuring dipper used for the shot was also used for the powder. So, 3/4, 1 oz, 1&1/4, etc, for the shot load, the volume of black powder is the same as the volume of shot. This means that typical shotgun loads range from around 70 grains of black to around 100 grains of black. I'm stressing black powder here because you CANNOT do the same thing with smokeless powder.
Can you "tweak" the load and vary shot or powder or both? Sure. You just have to follow safe loading practices. In most cases, though, the best and safest loads are going to be square loads.
With slugs, you need to do some weight checking. Find out how much shot weighs the same as your slug, and start with a matching powder charge.
Just got it!
If I don't install the primer first, the powder will leak out. My H&R has a hammer block and I keep the bore pointed away from me while loading. I feel quite safe. Thanks
Thik Soks yeah, I did notice a very small amount of powder sometimes falling through, but not enough to concern me. Gotta love the H&R though!!
Leave an old spent primer in until ready to install a new primer.
I enjoyed your video make some more along the same lines. As an old muzzle loader I noticed a serious error. When loading a shot gun the charge should be 1/3 black powder, 1/3 wadding and 1/3 shot. Did not look to me as if you used enough wadding over the powder .
ill have to keep that in mind as this was my first time ever loading a muzzle loader. Thanks for the tip!! Ill have to make another video soon.
Yep, take the 12 gauge slug shell apart,, put the empty shell in the chamber of your favorite shotgun,, pour the powder down the barrel, followed by the wad and the slug. There. you just muzzle-loaded a shotgun. . In other words disassemble the shotgun slug shell and reassemble it inside the gun.
While muzzleloader rifles start at $200, muzzleloader shotguns start at $1000. If you want to try making black powder for fun, $1000 shotgun is way too expensive, but $200 is okay.
If that's a 12 ga put 100 grains in there. Get some better wadding. Edit: I loaded similarly when I first did this. It is loads of fun, just like you're having there !
This adapter works, kinda sorta, not really. I purchased one of these and at the time I was excited about the concept of using my single shot shotguns as a muzzleloader for fun and maybe some small game hunting, the fact is it’s a fun range toy. The wax paper does not act as a proper wad over the powder and certainly not over the pellets. The chamber is much larger than the barrel making any sort of wad ineffective. If possible it would’ve been great to make this adapter two and three-quarter inches long, this might however hinder ignition. I loaded it up, walked a little bit,after about a five minute stroll ,the shot came tumbling out of the end of the barrel,you could use it for hunting, but you would have to be very careful to keep your shot gun pointed in an upward direction at all times to avoid loosing your shot. I’m just going to stick to my Pedersoli
My demonstration was as armature as it could get. I think if you would have used a better over shot wad, it would have shown through in the outcome. dont give up on it so soon.
The diameter of the shell is much larger than the diameter of the barrel, that’s what I was saying,something I didn’t think of when I purchased it, it’s nothing you did,it’s just a poor design, it works but not very well, even if you put a wad down the barrel, as soon as it hits the chamber and it expands to the diameter of the shotshell the wad will be loose tight fit, rendering it ineffective, it’s nothing you did,enjoyed your video and I wish I had watched it before I spend my money
@@robiker416B I gotcha, I have not experienced this as of yet. Maybe further testing is needed on my part.
Same problem I encountered. Good money poorly spent. I wrote the Short Lane people and asked for some solution to the problem. No answer from them. Learned an expensive lesson.
Could you make paper cartridges for this with slugs/balls?
have you tried a .710 round ball out of this?
I have not
Man that was pretty awesome. So what happens and shtf if you don't have the little adapter you shot your last shotgun shell but you still have powder and firing caps? Do you know what to do? I do
And where are you suppose to buy these?
gunadapters.com use coupon code ZRUS for a discount. (affiliate)
Do they make the adapter for a single 20ga ??
yes i believe they do!
Are you from " Zoo York "? Haha Great video, man.
lol thanks!
Gun model???
Hmm.. how about reloaded shotgun shells with black powder? Much less hassle.. no ram rod thing.. someone does that, i know that would work too
Dave canterbury i think has a video on doing that
I have been doing that for quite a few years for my single shot 12 GA. Works great! I bought the ShortLane adaptor because I'm a sucker for all sorts of gimmicks when it comes to my gun hobby, but have a problem with getting a good over powder and over shot card that actually works good. My reloads using BP works much better than the adapter.
Have you tried any slugs?
Michael Goains not yet
That's awesome
Have you tried this adapter in that midland backpacker?
Great video.
thanks!
Nice.
can it be loaded with 00buck
yes it can! but know what you are doing as far as load vs powder.