Aurora inverter relay change, E031 fault
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- Опубліковано 20 лют 2020
- Following on from my previous E031 fix videos, here's what to do when re-soldering the relay pins fails to fix the problem.
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Thanks for the acknowledgement Andy, You beat me to it, I just posted 3 videos on UA-cam yesterday "rectifier investigation", "removing a relay from an Aurora 3.6 KW inverter" and "Aurora relay failure mode investigation".
I find that the desoldering tools are good for clearing the holes after the component has been removed, the solder sucker works best when orthogonal to and in contact with the pcb.
Like you I have shown both methods in my video
Regards
Peter
My Aurora showed fault EO35 and the burnt solder joints. I resoldered them but it still did not work. Decided to replace all 4 relays, melted the solder joints and with a puff of compressed air blew all the solder away and the relays lifted out, replacing them took 10 mins and now it works as good as new. Poor contacts generating a lot of heat is obviously the problem. Relays surprisingly did not show internal damage. Relays cost £25 delivered, well worth doing. Thanks for your assistance.
Brian, well done, compressed are rather than a sucker, must try that cheers
Cheers Andy - our seven year old Aurora developed the E031 fault yesterday. My other half (who's thankfully a dab hand with gadgets n soldering) followed your lead and all went well and Aurora back doing it's thing. Thank you again - much appreciated. If I could send you a few jars of home made jam as a thank you I would! Take care and stay sane during these crazy times! Bee :-)
Bee, that's great news, another inverter saved. I hope you extended the solder over the track as per the improved fix video and have seen my video on extending inverter life (important). Hopefully you have read the video description, liked, and subscribed. Sanity is a strange and ineffable thing to the creative, Cheers
@@TheInfoworks Concur re: sanity! From a female who still admires the lampshade she created from marbles and stripped copper electrical cable - even if no-one else does! Have given you the like, thumbs up etc and if I can big up your helpful listings - I will.
Bee, thanks and a bit of promotion would be much appreciated, cheers
@@TheInfoworks have you seen fault e033 it's got to do with ambient temperature outside being less than 25c. I presume a kty or pt100 sensor blown somewhere but where
@@precisionaerialtechnologys3899 Hi, cold is not a problem with inverters but heat is, I've not come across this before and have had the power board with huge burnt areas from over heating. As with all systems, strange anomalies can occur. Please keep me informed. New aurora relay video out soon and a Solis 3.6Kw fix, cheers
Thanks for the great help. You saved us big time🙏🏽
That is splendid news, see my video on extending inverter life to reduce the risk off this happening again, and spreading you savings with the link in he video description, cheers
Well done Andy !
Thanks, another one done.
Thank you for the guidance in repairing our inverter, resoldered one relay and replaced another, on the Aurora inverter......
. Recently I received a Fan Failure notification, I searched the internet for replacement fans and to no avail, also some of the venders I've used....
Thanks for the comment, never come across a fan failure, did you check it was plugged in correctly? Cheers
@@TheInfoworks I will check to make sure its securely plugged in....will let you know.....thank you....
@@mctwo4092 Check the markings on the fan, it'll probably be an off the shelf 12v fan, just buy a similar size and spec fan and if needs be wire the existing plug onto the replacement fan.
Prolific Andy 👍 As you may remember I have two Aurora's so this is likely to be useful in the future at some stage.
Hope the recent rain isn't affecting you. ☔
Jim, damp but no real flooding not like the west country. When I get a problem, it may take some time but I just keep chipping away, cheers
Jim, I.m increasingly convinced that the lead free solder joint on the relay pins is the problem and these should be upgraded with lead solder that flows over a larger area of the cleaned track, cheers
@@TheInfoworks I hear people say it can make a big difference in some applications for example using plumbers solder on pcbs is a no no for example. I will heed your advice should the time come 👍
Thank you for these videos -- I was able to fix my E031. Replacing the one obvious relay didn't do it. Perhaps unwise, but I was able to test each relay in circuit without unsoldering. (Apply 12VDC to coil, look for near-0 resistance across contacts. 2nd pair of hands needed.) That proved another relay had failed and two others were fine. Saved desoldering the good two, and no dremeling the relay cases. I used obsolete Omron G8P-1A4P, but I think Tyco T9SV1K15-12S and T9VV1K15-12S might be pin-compatible and are stocked at US suppliers.
Keep going as far as you can see and seeing how far you can go -- cheers!
Hi, thanks for your story, well done, persistence mostly pays off, cheers
The Tyco pins are a lot bigger was going to try your suggestion some 4x2mm compared to around 2mm diameter
We await your results with interest, cheers
@@Arnie_Liv Shame that, thanks for checking. Looks like the center-to-center distances are nearly correct but yes the 2 contact pins are bigger by ~1.7mm. I wonder if some filing might work. (Coil pins probably ok as is.) Left contact terminal (viewed in datasheet ) has correct center w/reference to coil pins, so could be filed evenly .8mm off each left and right edge to maintain center. The right contact's center is .5mm too low, so file 1.5mm off the bottom edge and .25mm off the top edge. Total madness maybe... Here's hoping you find a good way forward!
@@qcsupport2594 T9ES1D12-12 30A/240VAC these seem to be the best choice also discontinued but cheap.
I ordered some to try
You need to be real careful if you are going to lever the relay off as you can pull the copper out of the PCB from inside the hole. I find putting more solder on the joints to hold more heat helps. Just use light finger pressure on the relay and move your iron back and forth from one pin to the other. You will get to a point where both are molten at the same time and the part will more quite freely away from the PCB a little. then move to the coil pins and do the same. After a few times, it will come away and then you can remove the solder ready for the new part to go in.
Gary, thanks for this. Since this video I have found a way to re-set the relay contacts so the removal of the relay is not necessary, cheers
Adding a little bit of flux to the board first, can make a big difference when you're de-soldering. Sometimes it also helps to add a bit of fresh solder before you start de-soldering, as oxidisation on the blob of old solder can be a pretty good insulator.
For a big soldering iron, it doesn't seem to be getting very hot. I wonder if the cable's faulty and dropping a bit of voltage. I have a little 100-watt weller soldering gun which is a demon for joints like the ones you were trying to de-solder on that board.
Hi, yes I agrre on "wetting the iron tip" and that lead free solder just makes things difficult. I suspect that has caused the initial problem. As to the iron, it's quite old and probably designed to work on 250v, not as now around 228 / 234, cheers
You might find some higher rated relays with the same footprint are available, have done that with a Foster circuit board on a commercial fridge when parts were on backorder. Find a lot of stuff is only built to last out the warranty.
Good to hear from you, On some other inverters I would agree but the weak part here is the relay pin to circuit board connection. I think it is the lead free solder and poor cooling. Cheers
Great done....i have a kstar 3.6 and give fault 07....
Hi, I have not come across that type of machine so I cannot advise, sorry
Hi Andy,
Just resoldered the joints and still have E031. Do you have the part number of the Zettler relays handy? I thought I'd order new relays before taking the inverter off the wall again.
Hi, try looking in the comments on my other 2 videos on this subject, the improved E031 fix and aurora relay replace, cheers
Is it easy to find where the pins are and come through on the back of the circuit board ?
Dave, no real rules here, depends on the component but in this instance about a minute and they were identified. A ruler sometimes helps taking measurement from the board edge in 2 axis, cheers
No grid message on JFY Suntwins 4000 TL in Sydney. No investigation at fault finding yet. Any suggestion on any fault components ? Very interesting videos, discovered just today.Ty from miles away !
Hi, is mains power shown inside the inverter? if yes then try the internal fuse or it might be one of the relays. cheers
I have a E021 Dc to Dc relay problem are we looking at the same sort of failure of the solder
Hi, it would be a good idea to take the board out and inspect the relay solder joints, cheers
Hi
I have the Aurora 4.2 inverter and I can hear the sound of such a cycle, cycle and I do not know if it has to do with the relays?
See my other videos on setting the relay contact gap, cheers
Hi Andy - looks as though nobody else noticed your comment at 3:10, the crux of the biscuit is the apostrophe - Frank Zappa lyrics of course - the musical genius.
Graham, thanks for the comment, and he stood up and turned around and said..... Cheers
@@TheInfoworks .... I can't see :)
Graham, brilliant, do you recognise " and then you'll find 10 years have got " cheers
@@TheInfoworks ... behind you, you missed the starting gun. You should start a music channel :)
Hello when I disconnect all cables from it, I run the risk of getting shock?
Is there something in this equipment that will have stored energy?
Hi, there are some capacitors, so give it a few minutes for them to discharge,, cheers
What is the part number of the relay. My Aurora had a burnt pin with cold solder. I resoldered it but now I have an Arc failure.
Hi, sounds like you have a burnt contact, they can be cleaned and re set, you will find the part number on the relay, cheers
Una volta cambiati i relè,alimentando solo in ingresso 230 ac il display si dovrebbe accendere oppure è necessario collegare i pannelli solari oer poterlo collaudare?
Grazie
Yes, you need a minimum of 120v DC to make the inverter start, beware the start voltage is adjustable under V start in the menu, cheers
@@TheInfoworks grazie mille,il diodo marchiato lm ds che diodo è ?
Great video, i had the relays changed earlier in the year and everything worked, now when i switch on nothing comes on and the display is dead, any ideas please.
Martin, it sounds like mains power is not reaching the inverter. Take the bottom panel off and use a multi meter (set for AC) to check mains power is there. Take care, I take no reasonability, cheers
@@AI_native yes indeed and I have a feeling that this large ribbon is handed, so must go back the right way round that's why they are marked with a white dot, cheers
One has to wonder why they keep using what are in effect under sized relays in these devices, we are talking about switching 3 to four KVA, if you look at the size of a motor starting relay/contactor for the same power they are for times the size.Cannot help but think that fitting external relays of a larger size would be a good long term solution.
Hi, I agree and that's what I did with an Eversolar inverter that had piddley relays, cheers
Could you tell us where we could buy new relays from
Andrew, sorry, I have always used second hand relays but several of the viewer have commented about replacing their relays. I suggest you ask them in a direct reply to their comment, subscribed and liked? cheers
Can failure of ANY one of these four relays casue error E031?
PVI 3.6 inverter.
It seems to be the case where ever DC is being switched, the signs of heat are an indicator. Cheers
😊looking to make one into a wind turbine input inverter
Hi, the MPPT software is different, cheers
@@TheInfoworks hoping to get one and change the settings to wind and have a play with th set points.
Love your videos 😊
Hi, I have an Aurora PVI-5000 that needs its arc flash relay replaced. Any help is appreciated. Cheers.
Hi, a good soldering iron, a solder sucker, and some patience, or a mate who knows how to do it, let us know how you get on, cheers
Thank😂s
Hello, can you help me, I changed the low ones, but when I went to the lihar it was giving the
message (missing grid) and the yellow light stayed on alarm, it has been for 3 months
100% stopped by the relay, could it be his internal battery, I tried to look at statistics, the clock failed
Hi, is there mains power getting into the inverter? Do you have all the internal connections in the right place and the ribbon connector the right way round? cheers
I have a ABB PVI 10.0 TL OUTD FS with a E037 "Riso Low" fault
I didnt find any signal of damage in the bord or relays.
Hi, I think you have an earth leak on the DC circuit to the panels, see my video on isolation fault, solar inverter fault, cheers
@@TheInfoworks Hi, thanks for the answer.
At the photovoltaic plant we have two inverters of this model. One is powered by some solar painels and the other by anothers. One is working normally and the other is showing this error.
We put the first inverter where the second was to see if the problem was in the panels, but it worked without error, so we assume that the problem of the second inverter is internal.
@@renanavila1226 it might be worth checking the relay contacts as some of these relays switch the DC, cheers
@@TheInfoworks Ok, I will check it, thanks
The way the terminals are burnt makes you think the design is not up to spec, it's certainly not over engineered.
Brian, that and lead free solder doesn't help. The contacts seem to be big enough it the connection to the board that is weak. Perhaps running this at 2.5 Kw would work reliably. I have one with 8 panels and this runs with no problems, cheers
Which relay is usually the culprit? The input line voltage? The DC input? Output AC?
David, commonly the DC relays as the contacts arc on disconnect, cheers
@@TheInfoworks are the DC relays usually clearly labelled with the DC rating? How would I identify the DC relays? I see 4 relays. There are 4 DC inputs so assume those are DC relays but printed spec gives ac rating for 250v ac
@@Swenser David, have you had the board out to check for bad solder joints on there relays? seem my recent video on Aurora solis relays, and see the video on extending inverter life? cheers
Has anyone had e020 fault, dc to dc relay and could they advise what has to be done to repair
Hi, have you checked the board for signs of damage around the relay pins? cheers
@@TheInfoworks hi Andy nope I'm just taking it down off wall tonight . Will send you pictures
Hi Andy I cant find your reply message about the e033 ambient temperature fault
I just had a relay fail on my 3kw unit, same as the Aurora but ABB branded. I simply replaced all four relays as the American versions, the inverter is much more difficult to remove due to the lower bay DC disconnect. You need to either split the unit apart or undo the DC and AC feeds which is all in conduit. I guess in Europe you are allowed to tie individual wires to the base terminals but not in the USA. They want everything in conduit. Of particular interest is the relay quality. I could get the exact Zettler part from Digikey for $1.65 each. But the equivalent P&B relay was over 5$. So what does that tell you. I'll spend the extra dollars to get the P&B relay. P&B have been making relays since the 1940s. Zettler, not well known.
Yes here in the UK I took the unit off the wall to take the board out, good info on the relays, can you give us a link to those? cheers
@@TheInfoworks I suspect that the relay referred to is a TE/P&B T9A, type T9AV1L12-12. It's available from Mouser (USA) and elsewhere. The datasheet can be found here: www.mouser.co.uk/datasheet/2/418/4/NG_DS_1308242_T9A_0915-1026149.pdf
changed all 4 relays . its still shorting out but dont know what else to change now . my board is burnt same as yours . please help
Hi, if you have a dead short and fuses blow then from my limited experience this is caused by bad main capacitors deeper in the unit. Difficult to deal with but worth an investigation for the learning, cheers
@@TheInfoworks brought second inverter and swapped this board from donar inverter . it worked so the fault is in this pcb board . im not sure which component is shorting on this board .
@@shantelldigital Thanks for the info, I'm impressed by your perseverance, cheers
You need to clean your soldering iron and use plenty of flux, solder flow’s better
buongiorno a me è capitato che uscita dell'inverter è colato il morsetto dell'inverter e mi è uscito guasto 031 ho controllato i rele ed ho trovato 2 saldature da rifare eseguite le saldature ma mi esce ancora guasto 031 se qualcuno mi puo aiutare grazie
Hi, bad luck, some viewers have had to replace the relays to make the inverter work, I hope this helps, cheers
This fix is *incomplete*. The issue will reoccur.
The original cause of the melted relays and PCB contacts is that there is a software fault which means the relays can bounce at high frequency in certain conditions, which melts them.
The software fault is that in the early mornings when there is only a few watts of sunlight available, the system tries to energise the relays to connect to the grid. However, the power used by the relays (and other components of the inverter control system) is too much (since there is very little solar available), the power supply dips, the CPU's don't operate correctly, and the relays bounce open and closed at 50Hz for a few seconds every few minutes.
The workaround is to adjust Vstart in the menu much higher till it reliably cleanly starts each morning.
Hi, thanks for your contribution to this debate, It is interesting that at start up there is very little current and adjusting Vstart high also means that the inverter switches off in the evening, otherwise it can draw current. There is also the issue of relay contact tension, and I will be loading a video about this in the next day or so. Cheers
@@TheInfoworks indeed that's what I thought, but put a current clamp in the relay contacts and attach a scope and you soon see the issue...
The current *isn't* really low. In my case there were 8 amps of purely reactive current flowing, but nearly none at 50Hz. Most of it was at 150Hz (ie. The third harmonic). That's because the filter components in the inverter are connected to the grid with the relays, and they're effectively trying to filter higher harmonics from the whole national grid.
Since a lot of devices in today's world use rectifiers, the national grid has quite a lot of third harmonic power, and it's that current which causes the arcing.
Just had the relays changed thanks to this video. Mine shows vstart 1and v start 2 both currently on 199v. what should the values be to prevent the relays from melting?
@@PlanetTV2007 hi, I hope you have seen my extending inverter life video (it's in the inverter play list). This will help with relay problems. The vstart setting depends on the number of panels and the open circuit voltage. I would set it at between 30 and 40 volts below the open circuit voltage, or see what the DC voltage is when the inverter is running and go a bit below that, cheers
@@PlanetTV2007 Depends on how many panels you have connected. If you have 6 panels with an open-circuit voltage of 40 volts, then you probably want to set vstart to a bit under 6*40 = 240 volts. So 220 volts is probably a good choice.
When abb line is busy
They won't help you, just get on a fix it, cheers
Do you knowledgeable chaps follow the argument that power companies will be charging you for power you give to them? I feel the power demands of the grid (extra houses, factories and appliances) are being blamed on solar.
David , not at all sure about this, it depends on your meter or smart meter. The solution is the use of a diverter, I have videos about Immersun and Eddi diverters, cheers